NationStates Jolt Archive

i want to see people sopinions in this, so im going to leave it up to someone to post their opion first becuase if i post mine people will start sttacking or supporting my opinion, i want this to be ppl opinion in general. im going to post my opinion once i hear some others.

here's my opinion,
:headbang:

honestly, if you want to see peoples opinions, then go to search and type in "Israel". Why does everybody feel the need to start up a new topic on it?

Perhaps you could tell us where "Isriel" is located.

You spelled it wrong :eek: (It is called Spell Check; look into it)

I'll have to do some research on this "Isriel" before I have an opinion :p

there. happy?

You still spelled things in your message area wrong...

My "Sopinion":
Why are you debating if it should or not?! You can't magically make a country go "Zap!" You're gone. This is kinda stupid. The country is in the world and live with it.

Honestly, the issue is much deeper than Isreal / Palestine and needs to be addressed as such

but as far as contemporary politics goes, it HAS to exist today, but i dont thnk its creation was the best response to the jewish terrorism there.

You still spelled things in your message area wrong...

My "Sopinion":
Why are you debating if it should or not?! You can't magically make a country go "Zap!" You're gone. This is kinda stupid. The country is in the world and live with it.

The thread creater is an idiot. End of story. Let's find another topic shall we? Preferably, one that has at least some logic to recommend it, please?

Wy does anyone really care? I don't think it should be there, but it is and won't be going anywhere anytime soon, so why does it matter?

Should isriel exist?

What is this so-called state known as "isriel"? It does not appear to have any connection to the state known as Israel, which has just as much right to exist as any other nation on earth - one may not like their current admin, but hey, nothing's perfect

All right all right lay off him grammar nazis.

Isriel?
Hard to ask if something should exist if it doesn't.

I don't know this, but I have a dyslexic friend, and once you get to know dyslexics, they aren't as bad as purists like myself would like to think. Namaland may be dyslexic, or just a bad speller, so lay off him. Either way, I'm pretty sure "Israel" is a transliteration, so there can be multiple ways to spell it.

yeah lay off him guys, you shouldn't slate him so much. Anyway to the Isreal (if thats ok), it is, as a British Citizen, i would like to say it is acctually the our fault, we gave the land formally known as Palastine to the Jewish after World War 2, thus creating the tensions there are there. But we were forced to give them the land because Jewish suicde bombers an solidrs were killing our own troops in Palastine. :mp5:

Yours Greatfully

Adam (Leader of Botsgolia)

Oh for Gods sake, leave the poor kid alone. Everyone makes spelling mistakes. Ye're all just picking on an irrelevant factor. Answer the question.

Yes I think Israel should exist. It does exist now, despite certain counrties opposition to it. If I was to go back a few decades to when it was originally est after ww2, then I would say it's not such a good idea. You can't simply remove a county that lets face it has a kick ass army.
There is also the teeny tiny problem of America. Once you remove their power I'm sure you could have great crack making your own map!

undefinedIsrael should not be allowed to exist. :sniper: :sniper: The land that was granted to them in 1946 was stolen from its rightful owners. This is all because of the so called holocaust. Now you tell me how 6 million people could be placed in ovens and cooked without the rest of the world knowing something about it.. This was a British slam against the Nazi state. :gundge:

This is all because of the so called holocaust. Now you tell me how 6 million people could be placed in ovens and cooked without the rest of the world knowing something about it.. This was a British slam against the Nazi state.
Are you seriously one of those b*stards who say that the Holocaust was just propoganda? Do you really believe that the Nazi party wasn't perfectly capable of doing so? Do you believe that Hitler didn't use the retarded, Jews, and Gypsies as scapegoats? Concentration camps existed in Nazi-controlled land during WWII, whether you want to believe it or not. I'm not trying to say that the Jews suffered the most, there were 3 million more Gypsies at the beginning of the war than Jews, and less in the end, but that doesn't make what happened to them any better. I don't think the U.S. should have given other people's land to the Jews, but that doesn't mean the said people didn't suffer! Read Night by Elie Wiesel, it's autobiographical.

The Nazi atrocities did happen. You cannot completely deny it. Of course Israel's policy towards Germany was very incorrectly chosen. The German population, which was empahatical to the sufferers after World War II, has now grown up to hate the Jews on their own (where is, in the 30's the propoganda directed them).

Israel does and will exist, even if everyone on this site explodes in their hatred of it.

The correct question is - should the Palestinian state exist? And it should. As a legitimate, sovereign, UN-member, nation. Then terrorism can be finally subdued and the Palestinians and the Israelis can both live in peace.

Israel has every right to exist. Remember that there was never a nation called palestine. There was a region called palestine in Transjordan, which covered what is now Israel and what is now Jordan. The palestinians are Jordanians. A small tract of their land was given to the Jews. On it they have made a successfull democratic nation. Jews have been living in that land for thousands of years. It was only the harsh treatment they received under Islamic rule that drove so many out. Now they are back home.

Israel has every right to exist. Remember that there was never a nation called palestine. There was a region called palestine in Transjordan, which covered what is now Israel and what is now Jordan. The palestinians are Jordanians. A small tract of their land was given to the Jews. On it they have made a successfull democratic nation. Jews have been living in that land for thousands of years. It was only the harsh treatment they received under Islamic rule that drove so many out. Now they are back home.
Actually I always thought it was because of the Romans.

everynation has the right to exsist
even israel ( even so i dont like what they do to the palistinians )

the only thing i dont like about israel is you cant say anything bad about the country without be called ant-simetic

Actually I always thought it was because of the Romans.
The middle east was a full of christian and jewish communities before the rise of islam. When islam conquered the region jews and christians had to live as dhimmis. The laws regulating dhimmis were very harsh. Dhimmis couldn't own weapons, couldn't ever strike a muslim, even in self defense. Dhimmis could never testify against a muslim, so if a muslim neighbor steals your property or rapes your daughter, you have no recourse. Dhimmis had to wear special clothes, could never hold rank above a muslim either in government or business, could not build new houses of worship, or even repair existing ones. Dhimmi houses had to be lower than the surrounding muslim houses. Dhimmi men could not marry muslim women, muslim men could marry dhimmi women. Dhimmis could be put to death for defamin islam or the prophet. So if a muslim is angry at a dhimmi he could claim he heard the dhimmi defame islam. Since the dhimmi couldn't testify against the muslim he would be put to death. Also dhimmis had to pay a special tax. All that together kept them in poverty, subservience, and constant fear. Many converted to be safe, some left. To this day very few remain. Those that do are persecuted, except in Israel.

Hitler didnt kill 6 million jews, get your head out of your ass. This is propaganda. YOU believe this. Hitler was a great man! May his teachings be learned by the masses and his will, will rise from the ashes. Jews don't like him because he took from them what they took from Germany.

Maybe not back in 1947, but now they have every right to exist as a nation.

undefinedIsrael should not be allowed to exist. :sniper: :sniper: The land that was granted to them in 1946 was stolen from its rightful owners. This is all because of the so called holocaust. Now you tell me how 6 million people could be placed in ovens and cooked without the rest of the world knowing something about it.. This was a British slam against the Nazi state. :gundge:
At the time, Israel should not have been brought into existence, but it has been and it should not be destroyed. Saying it should is like saying that the Weimar Republic should never had the severe reparations brought against it that it did. Shit happens. The Palestinians are only as big of a problem as they currently are because surrounding arab nations have an anti-palestinian immigrant policy in place The reason for this being to give their anti-Israeli stances more validity. I would have no problem with my country(the US) giving the Israelis free reign in dealing with the arab countries. Preferably they would leave Iraq alone.

If not for the USA, Israel wouldn't have lasted this long. Regardless of your point of view, I think that is an undisputable fact.

The Nazi atrocities did happen. You cannot completely deny it. Of course Israel's policy towards Germany was very incorrectly chosen. The German population, which was empahatical to the sufferers after World War II, has now grown up to hate the Jews on their own (where is, in the 30's the propoganda directed them).
Actually it is just the resurfacing of general european and even british anti-semitism. The jews were the worlds whipping boys until the US and even here until relatively recently(historically speaking) they were severely disliked. Then the advent of israel and the general changing of attitude in the US means that these are the only two countries were they are really accepted. I don't think Japan is any more biased to the Jews than it is any other outside race of people, though I could be wrong.

Of course it should exist. What's the alternative? Moving all the Israelis elsewhere? Like they're going to stand for that.

The Israelis should build their wall, expell all the Palestinians to the walled off regions and then give the Palestinians their own state. Eventually then the Arab nations will have to get used to the idea of the existence of Israel. Admittedly places like Jerusalem are difficult, but I think a wall like the Berlin wall would work there.

I dont think EITHER of them should exist.

The palestinians throw away their best and brightest people by strapping bombs to their chests and telling them to blow up a cafe, a total disregard for life comparable to the way Stalin threw Russian troops into the meat grinder in WW2.

And the Israeils are idiots who have become everything they have ever hated. The way they use tanks to level entire villages in search of a little tunnel is totally stupid and unacceptable. Then they decide to build a big wall, which is completely annexing palestinian land. It sounds very much like what hitler did by annexing countries and burning down towns.

I say they both forfeit their rights to exist with the barbaric ways they fight each other all the time.

Maybe the Israel should exist. Maybe Palestine should exist.

Maybe they shouldn't.

The better question is: Should U.S. and European dollars be funding their violence toward eachother?

I say cut them both off.

Yes Israel should exist because Jews deserve a homeland, especially their biblical homeland

I think Israel should exist because it is at war with Palestine and if it didn't exist Palestine would attack someone else and I agree with Grand Proportions

Maybe the Israel should exist. Maybe Palestine should exist.

Maybe they shouldn't.

The better question is: Should U.S. and European dollars be funding their violence toward eachother?

I say cut them both off.

When you are in charge, try to do whatever.

When you are in charge, try to do whatever.

When I'm in charge? If only. I'd make a superb Almighty.

Life on Earth would be a lot more fun.

As a side note, Israel isn't a transliteration. It's simply the english name for the country.

A transliteration would be 'Yisra'el' or 'Eretz Yisra'el' :P

Or, as the ashkenazic would pronounce it, 'Yisroel'.

When I'm in charge? If only. I'd make a superb Almighty.

Life on Earth would be a lot more fun.

What's your "PLATFORM". Be careful. You're being "recorded".

What's your "PLATFORM". Be careful. You're being "recorded".

I "like" how you use "quotes" to "make" it seem like "words" have hidden "meanings" when "you're" really just "an" idiot.

I think Israel should exist because it is at war with Palestine and if it didn't exist Palestine would attack someone else and I agree with Grand Proportions

Footnote: Palestine was created by Britain, as part of JORDAN. Before that time (1948) there was NO Israel, Palestine, or Jordan.

I "like" how you use "quotes" to "make" it seem like "words" have hidden "meanings" when "you're" really just "an" idiot.

"Clever Guy".

If I were omnipotent, the first thing I'd do...just to get everyone's attention...would be to erase Jerusalem. Completely. I'd put a big ol' mountain right where it used to be. Everybody who used to be in Jerusalem will apear unharmed right next to the mountain.

Once things die down a little, and most of the major religions of the world have collapsed into chaos, I'd make rocks edible and nutritious(if slightly bland). I'd eliminate a couple diseases I don't like(AIds, herpes etc). I'd make everyone on Earth literate.

Then I'd sit back a little and watch a while.

Once I've gotten my second wind, I'd make water a little bit thicker. I'd make genuine laughter cure cancer. I would give deer built-in artillery weapons. I'd make Australia slowly spin in place. I would give someone the inspiration for an orgasm ray that would make anybody shot with it orgasm.

Then I'd rest again.

After that, I'd probably play things by ear.

If I were omnipotent, the first thing I'd do...just to get everyone's attention...would be to erase Jerusalem. Completely. I'd put a big ol' mountain right where it used to be. Everybody who used to be in Jerusalem will apear unharmed right next to the mountain.

Once things die down a little, and most of the major religions of the world have collapsed into chaos, I'd make rocks edible and nutritious(if slightly bland). I'd eliminate a couple diseases I don't like(AIds, herpes etc). I'd make everyone on Earth literate.

Then I'd sit back a little and watch a while.

Once I've gotten my second wind, I'd make water a little bit thicker. I'd make genuine laughter cure cancer. I would give deer built-in artillery weapons. I'd make Australia slowly spin in place. I would give someone the inspiration for an orgasm ray that would make anybody shot with it orgasm.

Then I'd rest again.

After that, I'd probably play things by ear.

Seems to "EARy" to me.

I "like" how you use "quotes" to "make" it seem like "words" have hidden "meanings" when "you're" really just "an" idiot.

Where are you? Come on back.

[snip]

I say cut them both off.

I agree... I've never looked into the how's and why's of all of that garbage over there, but if you ask me, they're equally to blame...

I mean, both peoples have been living in that region for centuries (millennia, even)... Why can't they just get along?

It's all over land... Is there not enough for all of them to live there? I dunno, but I'd say there probably is... So, what's the big deal? It boils down to greed, fueled by a constant cycle of revenge... "They hit us, so we have to hit them back"...

If both sides could just drop it, and leave well enough alone, they'd get along fine (well, they'd survive next to each other fine... I dunno about getting along)

If it were up to me, neither side would have our endorsement... I'd be over there, smacking them both around, and telling them to give it up... Neither one of you is more right than the other, so just drop it...

However, it seems that our administration(s) seem to like to play favorites... We're obviously on the Israeli side of things... And why? My best guess is religion... Jewish does not equal Christian, but it's much closer than Muslim...

So, since the Israeli religion is closer to that of our government (face it, the government shouldn't have a religion*, but it's painfully obvious that they do), that's the side we chose...

*Don't give me that "the Constitution doesn't seperate the government from religion, it only prevents them from creating laws that set one as the official one", bit... I know that... However, endorsing one (which they plainly do) is tantamount to choosing an official one, now isn't it?

I agree... I've never looked into the how's and why's of all of that garbage over there, but if you ask me, they're equally to blame...

I mean, both peoples have been living in that region for centuries (millennia, even)... Why can't they just get along?

It's all over land... Is there not enough for all of them to live there? I dunno, but I'd say there probably is... So, what's the big deal? It boils down to greed, fueled by a constant cycle of revenge... "They hit us, so we have to hit them back"...

If both sides could just drop it, and leave well enough alone, they'd get along fine (well, they'd survive next to each other fine... I dunno about getting along)

If it were up to me, neither side would have our endorsement... I'd be over there, smacking them both around, and telling them to give it up... Neither one of you is more right than the other, so just drop it...

However, it seems that our administration(s) seem to like to play favorites... We're obviously on the Israeli side of things... And why? My best guess is religion... Jewish does not equal Christian, but it's much closer than Muslim...

So, since the Israeli religion is closer to that of our government (face it, the government shouldn't have a religion*, but it's painfully obvious that they do), that's the side we chose...

*Don't give me that "the Constitution doesn't seperate the government from religion, it only prevents them from creating laws that set one as the official one", bit... I know that... However, endorsing one (which they plainly do) is tantamount to choosing an official one, now isn't it?

Where did you come from. Actually,(in spite of you total lack of knowledge), the "LAWS" of Muslims and Jews are closer to each other, than the beliefs of Christians. Get a Bible.

I agree... I've never looked into the how's and why's of all of that garbage over there, but if you ask me, they're equally to blame...

I mean, both peoples have been living in that region for centuries (millennia, even)... Why can't they just get along?

It's all over land... Is there not enough for all of them to live there? I dunno, but I'd say there probably is... So, what's the big deal? It boils down to greed, fueled by a constant cycle of revenge... "They hit us, so we have to hit them back"...

If both sides could just drop it, and leave well enough alone, they'd get along fine (well, they'd survive next to each other fine... I dunno about getting along)

If it were up to me, neither side would have our endorsement... I'd be over there, smacking them both around, and telling them to give it up... Neither one of you is more right than the other, so just drop it...

However, it seems that our administration(s) seem to like to play favorites... We're obviously on the Israeli side of things... And why? My best guess is religion... Jewish does not equal Christian, but it's much closer than Muslim...

So, since the Israeli religion is closer to that of our government (face it, the government shouldn't have a religion*, but it's painfully obvious that they do), that's the side we chose...

*Don't give me that "the Constitution doesn't seperate the government from religion, it only prevents them from creating laws that set one as the official one", bit... I know that... However, endorsing one (which they plainly do) is tantamount to choosing an official one, now isn't it?

Maybe I'm the crazy one...

But I think that if we're going to spend tax money on people in other countries, we should spend it on people who actually WANT peace and are willing to earn peace instead of expecting it to be given to them.

The US should get tough on Israel, as then they would make things get better.

And if Israel doesnt do anything productive, the US should distance themselves from Israel, and because Israel is nothing without the US, they will be gone.

Problem solved!!!

Oh, and Israel should wipe out the middle east with their nukes, and as the old saying goes....

"Hit two birds with one stone!"

Maybe I'm the crazy one...

But I think that if we're going to spend tax money on people in other countries, we should spend it on people who actually WANT peace and are willing to earn peace instead of expecting it to be given to them.

What do you think we're doing? And, we voted for it.

. Anyway to the Isreal (if thats ok), it is, as a British Citizen, i would like to say it is acctually the our fault, we gave the land formally known as Palastine to the Jewish after World War 2, thus creating the tensions there are there. But we were forced to give them the land because Jewish suicde bombers an solidrs were killing our own troops in Palastine. :mp5:

Yours Greatfully

Adam (Leader of Botsgolia)
No, you not. Britain was against the israeli right to countrey, but the UN gave it to us. Also the UN decision wasn't just on give land to Israel- they talked on the arab too. The UN says "two states for two countries, that live together in peace, with united economy".
Israel that get from the UN only small and unconnected lands agree to that decision, even that was very far from our wishes.
The Palastinians choose to go for everything or nothing- they start citizens war on the british territory, when the british "watched the other side".
After Israel act by the UN decision and declare on our Independence, the arab states (who get their right on that land few years before and had armies) attacked Israel and finaly lost about half of the territories the UN gave them. By the way the "poor palastinians" who refused to take the UN decision, became refugees.
And now I had some thing to say for you on "The Israeli fight for Independence":
1) fight start only after 1920 when the arabs butcher the jewish populotion in Jerusalem, and [b]the british close the city gate- action that make two things. ban the jewish in the city to run for their lives, and ban the armed jewish to help the jewish in the city.
2) the british "watch the other side" almost every time the jewish killed, but they ban the attacks that come in response.
3) the british ban from jewish the right to have weapons, right the arab get easily.
4)the arabs never fight the british for independence! they always faught the british side against the jewish right for independence.
5) the british "white book" ban jewish tries to go for israel from europe after the "Sho'a"- they even bring them to camps like the nazis camp!, or send them back to europe!
6)the jewish "terror", had no sucide bombers. they only put bombs in british aims.
7) the jewish call the britains before every bomb and say to them get out from the building.
8) the jewish "terror" was against soldiers, not against citizens!

I think you shold think on that facts before you start to talk.

The US should get tough on Israel, as then they would make things get better.

And if Israel doesnt do anything productive, the US should distance themselves from Israel, and because Israel is nothing without the US, they will be gone.

Problem solved!!!

Oh, and Israel should wipe out the middle east with their nukes, and as the old saying goes....

"Hit two birds with one stone!"

When were you elected?

No, you not. Britain was against the israeli right to countrey, but the UN gave it to us. Also the UN decision wasn't just on give land to Israel- they talked on the arab too. The UN says "two states for two countries, that live together in peace, with united economy".
Israel that get from the UN only small and unconnected lands agree to that decision, even that was very far from our wishes.
The Palastinians choose to go for everything or nothing- they start citizens war on the british territory, when the british "watched the other side".
After Israel act by the UN decision and declare on our Independence, the arab states (who get their right on that land few years before and had armies) attacked Israel and finaly lost about half of the territories the UN gave them. By the way the "poor palastinians" who refused to take the UN decision, became refugees.
And now I had some thing to say for you on "The Israeli fight for Independence":
1) fight start only after 1920 when the arabs butcher the jewish populotion in Jerusalem, and [b]the british close the city gate- action that make two things. ban the jewish in the city to run for their lives, and ban the armed jewish to help the jewish in the city.
2) the british "watch the other side" almost every time the jewish killed, but they ban the attacks that come in response.
3) the british ban from jewish the right to have weapons, right the arab get easily.
4)the arabs never fight the british for independence! they always faught the british side against the jewish right for independence.
5) the british "white book" ban jewish tries to go for israel from europe after the "Sho'a"- they even bring them to camps like the nazis camp!, or send them back to europe!
6)the jewish "terror", had no sucide bombers. they only put bombs in british aims.
7) the jewish call the britains before every bomb and say to them get out from the building.
8) the jewish "terror" was against soldiers, not against citizens!

I think you shold think on that facts before you start to talk.

Too verbose. Respond in 10 words or less. (And ignore anything longer.)

No, you not. Britain was against the israeli right to countrey, but the UN gave it to us. Also the UN decision wasn't just on give land to Israel- they talked on the arab too. The UN says "two states for two countries, that live together in peace, with united economy".
Israel that get from the UN only small and unconnected lands agree to that decision, even that was very far from our wishes.
The Palastinians choose to go for everything or nothing- they start citizens war on the british territory, when the british "watched the other side".
After Israel act by the UN decision and declare on our Independence, the arab states (who get their right on that land few years before and had armies) attacked Israel and finaly lost about half of the territories the UN gave them. By the way the "poor palastinians" who refused to take the UN decision, became refugees.
And now I had some thing to say for you on "The Israeli fight for Independence":
1) fight start only after 1920 when the arabs butcher the jewish populotion in Jerusalem, and [b]the british close the city gate- action that make two things. ban the jewish in the city to run for their lives, and ban the armed jewish to help the jewish in the city.
2) the british "watch the other side" almost every time the jewish killed, but they ban the attacks that come in response.
3) the british ban from jewish the right to have weapons, right the arab get easily.
4)the arabs never fight the british for independence! they always faught the british side against the jewish right for independence.
5) the british "white book" ban jewish tries to go for israel from europe after the "Sho'a"- they even bring them to camps like the nazis camp!, or send them back to europe!
6)the jewish "terror", had no sucide bombers. they only put bombs in british aims.
7) the jewish call the britains before every bomb and say to them get out from the building.
8) the jewish "terror" was against soldiers, not against citizens!

I think you shold think on that facts before you start to talk.

This applies to ALL. Pick your main point.

This applies to ALL. Pick your main point.

Some (most) of us have other things to do.

If I were omnipotent, the first thing I'd do...just to get everyone's attention...would be to erase Jerusalem. Completely. I'd put a big ol' mountain right where it used to be. Everybody who used to be in Jerusalem will apear unharmed right next to the mountain.

Once things die down a little, and most of the major religions of the world have collapsed into chaos, I'd make rocks edible and nutritious(if slightly bland). I'd eliminate a couple diseases I don't like(AIds, herpes etc). I'd make everyone on Earth literate.

Then I'd sit back a little and watch a while.

Once I've gotten my second wind, I'd make water a little bit thicker. I'd make genuine laughter cure cancer. I would give deer built-in artillery weapons. I'd make Australia slowly spin in place. I would give someone the inspiration for an orgasm ray that would make anybody shot with it orgasm.

Then I'd rest again.

After that, I'd probably play things by ear.


You got my vote, LG. Especially that part about an orgasm ray. Hell, you could probaly get a nobel peace prize for that one alone. Plus, your posts generally make me LOL,ROFL,and then LSHIPM. Don't ask about that last one, I'll never admit to it again.

ps - when/how do I get one of those whacky titles under my name like "possible SOF spammer", or "joltbot shoeshiner"?

You got my vote, LG. Especially that part about an orgasm ray. Hell, you could probaly get a nobel peace prize for that one alone. Plus, your posts generally make me LOL,ROFL,and then LSHIPM. Don't ask about that last one, I'll never admit to it again.

Two "PUTS" in a puddle.

This applies to ALL. Pick your main point.

Hey Green, pick one.

If it were up to me, neither side would have our endorsement... I'd be over there, smacking them both around, and telling them to give it up... Neither one of you is more right than the other, so just drop it... Well said. Although knowing the US, the whole idea of endorsing one side is purely to keep Europe in pieces so it can't unite and actually become the second world superpower. :D Just kidding.

And who was doubting the nazi oppression, deathcamps etc? Silly. I was about to quote Isherwood, but you'd probably think he was propaganda too.I can tell you that my great-grandparents on my mother's father's side went mysteriously missing and all their possessions were left to Germany when in fact they'd promised to put their son in their will.

Oh well, eh? :rolleyes:

You got my vote, LG. Especially that part about an orgasm ray. Hell, you could probaly get a nobel peace prize for that one alone. Plus, your posts generally make me LOL,ROFL,and then LSHIPM. Don't ask about that last one, I'll never admit to it again.

ps - when/how do I get one of those whacky titles under my name like "possible SOF spammer", or "joltbot shoeshiner"?

They start appearing when your post count reaches certain levels. There are quite a lot of levels. Most of them are pleasantly silly.

Well said. Although knowing the US, the whole idea of endorsing one side is purely to keep Europe in pieces so it can't unite and actually become the second world superpower. :D Just kidding.

And who was doubting the nazi oppression, deathcamps etc? Silly. I was about to quote Isherwood, but you'd probably think he was propaganda too.I can tell you that my great-grandparents on my mother's father's side went mysteriously missing and all their possessions were left to Germany when in fact they'd promised to put their son in their will.

Oh well, eh? :rolleyes:

It's almost 2005. What do you think NOW?

Oh and to that Green Israel post which keeps going round - yeah, Britain was pretty screwy back in the early 20th century. I blame all those American eugenicists who went to Germany, started the whole idea of a super-race, and then came over to Britain to do the same here. :p

Two "PUTS" in a puddle.


Since you've choosen such a clever new handle allow me to point out that you're still a dumbass.

To the mods - delete this/me if you like, but it's true and you know it.

It's almost 2005. What do you think NOW? That I could've been distinctly better off had Germany not nicked the fairly large inheritance which would've gone to my grandfather. :D

And that yes, the US is working hard to keep Europe from presenting an economic threat. But what can you do? :rolleyes:

Oh and to that Green Israel post which keeps going round - yeah, Britain was pretty screwy back in the early 20th century. I blame all those American eugeneticists who went to Germany, started the whole idea of a super-race, and then came over to Britain to do the same here. :p

That hole closed 25 years ago.

Since you've choosen such a clever new handle allow me to point out that you're still a dumbass.

To the mods - delete this/me if you like, but it's true and you know it.

Are you still "Clever Guy"?

That hole closed 25 years ago.Meh. I'm still allowed to say that my country was pretty darn unpleasant too before about 1965. If I can't bitch about Britain, then who can? :P

That I could've been distinctly better off had Germany not nicked the fairly large inheritance which would've gone to my grandfather. :D

And that yes, the US is working hard to keep Europe from presenting an economic threat. But what can you do? :rolleyes:

Your free-bie inheritance is gone. In the US we make our own way.

Hey Green, pick one.
you want my main point?
what the problem with read some historical facts, and get from them my main point?
if you still say yes, I just tell you:
I'm for the existence of Israel.
I'm israeli and jewish.
I had family who die in the Sho'a.
the israeli fight for countrey is not like the palastinian terror.
and we don't get any shit from someone, we always fight for everything we get!

now, can you move your ass and read my fucking reply?

Meh. I'm still allowed to say that my country was pretty darn unpleasant too before about 1965. If I can't bitch about Britain, then who can? :P

Go ahead. But we might jump on you.

you want my main point?
what the problem with read some historical facts, and get from them my main point?
if you still say yes, I just tell you:
I'm for the existence of Israel.
I'm israeli and jewish.
I had family who die in the Sho'a.
the israeli fight for countrey is not like the palastinian terror.
and we don't get any shit from someone, we always fight for everything we get!

now, can you move your ass and read my fucking reply?

10 words or less. AND NO CUSSING.

10 words or less. AND NO CUSSING.

I know it's tough. But you are HURTING your cause.

10 words or less. AND NO CUSSING.
I can't put opinion in 10 words or less, OK?

Where did you come from. Actually,(in spite of you total lack of knowledge), the "LAWS" of Muslims and Jews are closer to each other, than the beliefs of Christians. Get a Bible.

No, no, no... I'm not talking about their "laws" or "values" or "morals" or "beliefs"...

I'm talking about their origins... Pure and simple sentimentality is what ties them together...

The beginning of the Christian Bible is about the Jewish people (or, rather, the people that would spawn the Jewish people, anyways)... Jesus himself was born a Jew... According the the Christian Bible, the Israeli's were God's chosen people...

The two are related very closely in terms of coming from the same stock... Regardless of who believes what, and which beliefs match more closely...

And I think that it's this tie that keeps our government in the Israeli pocket... The Muslims are seen as different, and the Isareli's aren't...

I can't put opinion in 10 words or less, OK?

1. Try it like this.
2. Each item is 10 or less words.
3. No more than 5 items, please.
4. Your points will be remembered.

No, no, no... I'm not talking about their "laws" or "values" or "morals" or "beliefs"...

I'm talking about their origins... Pure and simple sentimentality is what ties them together...

The beginning of the Christian Bible is about the Jewish people (or, rather, the people that would spawn the Jewish people, anyways)... Jesus himself was born a Jew... According the the Christian Bible, the Israeli's were God's chosen people...

The two are related very closely in terms of coming from the same stock... Regardless of who believes what, and which beliefs match more closely...

And I think that it's this tie that keeps our government in the Israeli pocket... The Muslims are seen as different, and the Isareli's aren't...

Watch how nobody remembers #72.

No, no, no... I'm not talking about their "laws" or "values" or "morals" or "beliefs"...

I'm talking about their origins... Pure and simple sentimentality is what ties them together...

The beginning of the Christian Bible is about the Jewish people (or, rather, the people that would spawn the Jewish people, anyways)... Jesus himself was born a Jew... According the the Christian Bible, the Israeli's were God's chosen people...

The two are related very closely in terms of coming from the same stock... Regardless of who believes what, and which beliefs match more closely...

And I think that it's this tie that keeps our government in the Israeli pocket... The Muslims are seen as different, and the Isareli's aren't...
just fot you to know, the Quran has some paragraphs that says that in all the problems the quran don't answer, you should ask the bible or the jewish who has most connection to the bible.

Think about it this way: how would you like it if one day the government of another country told you you had to move out of your house and let another family move in there because that family had been being harrassed or was in danger in their current home? Sure, of course you feel bad for the family that is in danger - but that doesn't give anyone else, particularly someone else's government, the right to kick you out of your own house, does it? The Holocaust was an apalling thing and it was the culmination of centuries of anti-Semitism in Europe. Of course Jewish people have the same right to live in safety as everyone else. But that doesn't mean that their safety can be purchased at the expense of someone else's sovereignty.

The UN, the UK, the US, whoever ultimately made the decision had no authority, in my mind, to establish an Israeli state. As such, this state is not valid. But as others have said, it's all just theory now. The practicality of it is that possession is nine-tenths of the law, and Israel does exist now in real terms whether it should or not. There's no realistic way to kick all the Israeli people out and forcibly relocate them. We made the mess and we have to help fix it, just as the US must stay and rebuild Iraq even though we never should have gone in there in the first place.

I do think that Western governments should stop unilaterally backing the Israeli government and put a lot more pressure on both sides, that no financial or military assistance will be given to anyone until the violence stops. That probably sounds like a contradiction, but I'm seeing sanctions (or whatever) as an encouragement to finding a workable peace plan rather than a cop-out of not doing anything.

I don't know whether anything will ever fix it though, to be honest. Unfortunately I think the situation there is one of those things that will be with us pretty much forever, barring something like a meteor hitting it and wiping everyone out, or an earthquake actually splitting the earth in half.

Oh and BL, you do know that Judaism and Islam are not that different from each other, nor from Christianity, because all three descend from Abraham and because Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God, just in different ways? Christianity is effectively a schismed (if that's a word) sect of Judaism which believes that the messiah has already come.

1. Try it like this.
2. Each item is 10 or less words.
3. No more than 5 items, please.
4. Your points will be remembered.


26 words - your post is ignored.

Your rules, not mine.

just fot you to know, the Quran has some paragraphs that says that in all the problems the quran don't answer, you should ask the bible or the jewish who has most connection to the bible.

Try again.

Think about it this way: how would you like it if one day the government of another country told you you had to move out of your house and let another family move in there because that family had been being harrassed or was in danger in their current home? Sure, of course you feel bad for the family that is in danger - but that doesn't give anyone else, particularly someone else's government, the right to kick you out of your own house, does it? The Holocaust was an apalling thing and it was the culmination of centuries of anti-Semitism in Europe. Of course Jewish people have the same right to live in safety as everyone else. But that doesn't mean that their safety can be purchased at the expense of someone else's sovereignty.

The UN, the UK, the US, whoever ultimately made the decision had no authority, in my mind, to establish an Israeli state. As such, this state is not valid. But as others have said, it's all just theory now. The practicality of it is that possession is nine-tenths of the law, and Israel does exist now in real terms whether it should or not. There's no realistic way to kick all the Israeli people out and forcibly relocate them. We made the mess and we have to help fix it, just as the US must stay and rebuild Iraq even though we never should have gone in there in the first place.

I do think that Western governments should stop unilaterally backing the Israeli government and put a lot more pressure on both sides, that no financial or military assistance will be given to anyone until the violence stops. That probably sounds like a contradiction, but I'm seeing sanctions (or whatever) as an encouragement to finding a workable peace plan rather than a cop-out of not doing anything.

I don't know whether anything will ever fix it though, to be honest. Unfortunately I think the situation there is one of those things that will be with us pretty much forever, barring something like a meteor hitting it and wiping everyone out, or an earthquake actually splitting the earth in half.

Oh and BL, you do know that Judaism and Islam are not that different from each other, nor from Christianity, because all three descend from Abraham and because Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God, just in different ways? Christianity is effectively a schismed (if that's a word) sect of Judaism which believes that the messiah has already come.

What planet did you just arrive from? Back 3 pages.

1. Try it like this.
2. Each item is 10 or less words.
3. No more than 5 items, please.
4. Your points will be remembered.
1- That is only slogens throwing.
2- Slogens make hateness and stupidity.
3- Slogens used by dictators, to convince their people.
4- I prefer to be clear.
5- people remember only stupid things you say.

The planet of people who have a life outside the NS boards and sometimes catch up on threads in large chunks as a result. Also, note the "just joined" under my name.

Excellently well-thought-out reply to my post, by the way.

26 words - your post is ignored.

Your rules, not mine.

You missed the point. If you can't do it in 10 words; MAKE SEPARATE POINTS.

all three descend from AbrahamWell, that's one of the biggest misunderstandings ever. I think that all of those religions are a leeetle older than a couple of centuries, ne? :D

(edited for speoling errer :p)

Wait.

Wrong Abraham.

Well, that SHOWS I'm agnostic.

**laughs**

The planet of people who have a life outside the NS boards and sometimes catch up on threads in large chunks as a result. Also, note the "just joined" under my name.

Excellently well-thought-out reply to my post, by the way.

Thanks. But, What was your point? (No offense intended)

You missed the point. If you can't do it in 10 words; MAKE SEPARATE POINTS.


15 words -- S.O.S. -- bye now.

Well, that's one of the biggest misunderstandings ever. I think that all of those religions are a leeetle older thatn a couple of centuries, ne? :D

Centuries? Abraham lived around...oh gosh it's been way too long since I studied ancient history, but I'm thinking it was like 5000 bc, didn't he? That's what I was always told, anyway...

Wrong Abraham. I was thinking of the President.

Oooopsie.

(mental note: stop being a f0rktard and the others may listen)

:D

Thanks. But, What was your point? (No offense intended)

I think I made my point pretty clearly in my original post - Israel in theory probably shouldn't exist because the people who created it were outside governments who didn't have authority. But in practical terms it does exist, and that's what we have to try to deal with now.

1- That is only slogens throwing.
2- Slogens make hateness and stupidity.
3- Slogens used by dictators, to convince their people.
4- I prefer to be clear.
5- people remember only stupid things you say.

You wasted 5 lines, and made NO POINT. YOU LOSE.

Wrong Abraham. I was thinking of the President.

Oooopsie.

(mental note: stop being a f0rktard and the others may listen)

:D

LOL no worries. Just got me confused for a second there (not that that's particularly hard to do!!)

BL:

While I can agree that being too verbose is a flaw, I feel that being too concise is a greater flaw...

Being wordy only hurts your cause because there are too many lazy people out there, that aren't willing to do some reading... However, not being wordy enough causes your words to have a greater chance of being misunderstood...

For instance, your reply of "Try Again" can be interpreted in a handful of ways... The most likely one, in which you're telling him that he failed to be concise enough, is what the majority should pick up on... However, the operative word is "should"... That little line can also be taken to mean "You're wrong. Try again." or "I couldn't understand you, try again", etc, etc...

So yeah, perhaps you're playing to the audience a bit better by typing a small handful of words for them to read...but you're trading off clarity to gain that insignificant "advantage"...

The planet of people who have a life outside the NS boards and sometimes catch up on threads in large chunks as a result. Also, note the "just joined" under my name.

Excellently well-thought-out reply to my post, by the way.

Thanks, I think. But what are you talking about?

What planet did you just arrive from? Back 3 pages.

This is what I was replying to. Someone else posted whilst I was typing, apparently, which slightly trashed the continuity.

Well, that's one of the biggest misunderstandings ever. I think that all of those religions are a leeetle older than a couple of centuries, ne? :D

(edited for speoling errer :p)

Wait.

Wrong Abraham.

Well, that SHOWS I'm agnostic.

**laughs**

Ha Ha. What? No sense, no comment.

This is what I was replying to. Someone else posted whilst I was typing, apparently, which slightly trashed the continuity.

Try again. But you only get 2 chances. LAST CHANCE.

Oog. Bl, you confuzz me.

Opinion:
No, but it does. Let's just get on with it.

Ten words! Yay!

I think I made my point pretty clearly in my original post - Israel in theory probably shouldn't exist because the people who created it were outside governments who didn't have authority. But in practical terms it does exist, and that's what we have to try to deal with now.

Sorry. Way more than 10 words. UNREMEMBERED.

Sorry. Way more than 10 words. UNREMEMBERED.

Who made you the boss?

Oog. Bl, you confuzz me.

Opinion:
No, but it does. Let's just get on with it.

Ten words! Yay!

Great! One point for <10 words. But, 0 for content.

Who made you the boss?

Who allowed you to gripe.

Think about it this way: how would you like it if one day the government of another country told you you had to move out of your house and let another family move in there because that family had been being harrassed or was in danger in their current home? Sure, of course you feel bad for the family that is in danger - but that doesn't give anyone else, particularly someone else's government, the right to kick you out of your own house, does it? The Holocaust was an apalling thing and it was the culmination of centuries of anti-Semitism in Europe. Of course Jewish people have the same right to live in safety as everyone else. But that doesn't mean that their safety can be purchased at the expense of someone else's sovereignty. If you read my post you see the jewish or the UN don't kick the arab ass from that land.
the UN decision talk about borders that gave the arabs most of the land and even harm the jewish, because they has to go back to the UN borders.
also Israel gave the arabs who lived in the israeli borders by the UN, the right for citizenship.
the arabs refused to esablished a state- they prefered to attack Israel and loose. they even don't had to gave their house to the jewish. they could stay their as Israeli citizens. not level B citizens, level A citizens with all the rights of the jewish.
after they prefered to attack Israel some of them became refugees, and the others became level B citizens. that two thing created by the arabs, and broke whole the chances to peace in the area.
sad story.

I do think that Western governments should stop unilaterally backing the Israeli government and put a lot more pressure on both sides, that no financial or military assistance will be given to anyone until the violence stops. That probably sounds like a contradiction, but I'm seeing sanctions (or whatever) as an encouragement to finding a workable peace plan rather than a cop-out of not doing anything.
when you see western goverments backing Israel?
except of USA who also gave veto on sanctions against Israel and our "glory supporter micronesia", ALL THE WORLD IS AGAINST US.
even the vote against anti-semitism pass in the UN only before two weeks!
europe is against every Israeli defence act , but the vote against Terror failed in huge difference only because they dpn't want to be for Israel.

Who allowed you to gripe.

Sorry to all. But seriously. If you have something meaningful to say; do it in 10 words or less. (I took more than 10 words, because I had to speak your language.)

SSGX - Being too verbose is rarely if ever a flaw. Too verbose only is a problem if for example someone who posts in ten words or less trys to become verbose and blathers on for page after page.

Sdaeriji - No one made him boss, in fact he's just recently returned after having numerous posts deleted and threads closed down.

The question is should Israel exist, and BL contributes little to most threads he/she posts in. Ignore him and let's get back on point.

Israel, or some place the Jewish people can call their own and be safe in, should exist, and without European support it probably wouldn't. But this shouldn't come at the expense and suffering of their neighbors. It is this point that makes me, apparently an anti-semite. I say we give 'em New York city, like in the John Carpenter/Kurt Russel movie "Escape from New York".

OY! It's the Duke! Get him a kanish!

Something meaningful can not be said in 10 words or less...

(Even this took 11...lol)

P.S. Or rather, something that can be said in 10 words or less is not meaningful...

If you read my post you see the jewish or the UN don't kick the arab ass from that land.
the UN decision talk about borders that gave the arabs most of the land and even harm the jewish, because they has to go back to the UN borders.
also Israel gave the arabs who lived in the israeli borders by the UN, the right for citizenship.
the arabs refused to esablished a state- they prefered to attack Israel and loose. they even don't had to gave their house to the jewish. they could stay their as Israeli citizens. not level B citizens, level A citizens with all the rights of the jewish.
after they prefered to attack Israel some of them became refugees, and the others became level B citizens. that two thing created by the arabs, and broke whole the chances to peace in the area.
sad story.


when you see western goverments backing Israel?
except of USA who also gave veto on sanctions against Israel and our "glory supporter micronesia", ALL THE WORLD IS AGAINST US.
even the vote against anti-semitism pass in the UN only before two weeks!
europe is against every Israeli defence act , but the vote against Terror failed in huge difference only because they dpn't want to be for Israel.

Excuse me, but you ALWAYS GO WAY OVER 10 WORDS, and waste much time, and no one reads your stuff.

bl make a meaningful point in >10 words

Something meaningful can not be said in 10 words or less...

(Even this took 11...lol)

P.S. Or rather, something that can be said in 10 words or less is not meaningful...

You are absolutely, undeniably, totally wrong. FOR SURE.

SSGX - Being too verbose is rarely if ever a flaw.

No, it really can be sometimes... BL's general sentiment on this is pretty good... If you type (or talk) too much, you lose the interest of most of humanity... Our attention spans are too short to handle listening to (or reading) someone who we would essentially view as rambling...

I personally am often too wordy... However, like I tried to point out, I err on the side of clarity... I'd much rather type too much than not enough...

But at the same time, I see that it is a flaw, because many people either won't bother reading it all, or will just skip it entirely...

Oh well, I'm not changing myself to accomodate humanity's shortcomings, as BL seems to be advocating...

Trying to get folks to stick to ten words or less is silly.

Sure, if we all communicated in binary. But we don't, so let's just all get on with it in our own way - okie?

I can't squeeze what I think of this issue into ten words without trimming it so much that I lose that point for content. So STFU, muppet, and let us get on with it.

The main problem is that the Jews were the first in 'Israel' (I mean the land, not the country), then it was taken from them by the 'Palestinians'. The now-Palestinians have right of conquest, the Jews have right of heritage.

I used inverted commas because back then, the lands were not called Israel and Palestine. :D

bl make a meaningful point in >10 words

I've been doing it for one hour.

But at the same time, I see that it is a flaw, because many people either won't bother reading it all, or will just skip it entirely...[/QUOTE]

Your words are wasted on those who would anyways

I've been doing it for one hour.
Ive yet to see one so just for me,
i just read this whole thread sooo... words hurt brain

Trying to get folks to stick to ten words or less is silly.

Sure, if we all communicated in binary. But we don't, so let's just all get on with it in our own way - okie?

I can't squeeze what I think of this issue into ten words without trimming it so much that I lose that point for content. So STFU, muppet, and let us get on with it.

The main problem is that the Jews were the first in 'Israel' (I mean the land, not the country), then it was taken from them by the 'Palestinians'. The now-Palestinians have right of conquest, the Jews have right of heritage.

I used inverted commas because back then, the lands were not called Israel and Palestine. :D

Make ONE point at a time. This might help you.

I've been doing it for one hour.

No, you haven't.

01101110001101110011110000000011101

Ive yet to see one so just for me,
i just read this whole thread sooo... words hurt brain

Seems like you remember mine, (and probably no others.)

Make ONE point at a time. This might help you.

I've seen you doing this obnoxious thing numerous times in this thread...

You post a one-liner, hit reply to post another, and so on... If two or more posts are coming from the same person in a row, then that person is spamming, and being wasteful...

Put whatever you've got to say at the time into one post...

No, it really can be sometimes... BL's general sentiment on this is pretty good... If you type (or talk) too much, you lose the interest of most of humanity... Our attention spans are too short to handle listening to (or reading) someone who we would essentially view as rambling...

I personally am often too wordy... However, like I tried to point out, I err on the side of clarity... I'd much rather type too much than not enough...

But at the same time, I see that it is a flaw, because many people either won't bother reading it all, or will just skip it entirely...

Oh well, I'm not changing myself to accomodate humanity's shortcomings, as BL seems to be advocating...
you know, even you not an angel.
you skipped on all my post that had contect to your post, and I think this happen because they too large.
think on that before you write too much words on that BL.

Make ONE point at a time. This might help you.Err... Really? Because I thought most people wouldn;t get that confused by me saying one thing and then another. It's equivalent to:

1: I like cheese! Do you like cheese?
2: What about lemon yoghurt? What does everyone think of lemon yoghurt?
3: I like cheese too. But I don't think much of lemon yoghurt.
1: WTF? STFU, F00!
2: ...you confuse me...

01101110001101110011110000000011101

NEW RULE FOR NERDS. All words must be less than 15 characters.

you know, even you not an angel.
you skipped on all my post that had contect to your post, and I think this happen because they too large.
think on that before you write too much words on that BL.

No, actually, I've read all of your posts, including the ones that were connected to mine...

I just didn't reply because I had nothing to say back about them...lol

What about lemon yoghurt? What does everyone think of lemon yoghurt?
thats more than 10

and i didnt spam i refreshed and had to do it bfor any one else did

oh and also the us alone gives isreal hundreds of millions if not billions so they do not fight by themselves like they would have you believe

mostly im for isreal but what about the uss liberty how do you explain that

01101110001101110011110000000011101Ahh, that brightens up my day. But it's three characters too long. :D

No, actually, I've read all of your posts, including the ones that were connected to mine...

I just didn't reply because I had nothing to say back about them...lol
too bad, I taught that maybe me and you can bring the thread to the original purpose, but I guess I wrong.
anyway, I take my words back.

No, actually, I've read all of your posts, including the ones that were connected to mine...

I just didn't reply because I had nothing to say back about them...lol

Wonderful (really), but all too rare. Shorter is better.

No, it really can be sometimes... BL's general sentiment on this is pretty good... If you type (or talk) too much, you lose the interest of most of humanity... Our attention spans are too short to handle listening to (or reading) someone who we would essentially view as rambling...

If you aren't willing too read a lengthy arguement, then you're in the wrong place. Ten words or less is great for chatrooms, but in a forum like this, lengthy posts make for great reading - sometimes. I'll admit, a post that goes on for a thousand words is too much, but ten words is just an arbitrary amount BL is using to get you worked up. Ignore him/her. :sniper:

Oh well, I'm not changing myself to accomodate humanity's shortcomings, as BL seems to be advocating...

Right on! The hell with short attention span people. Verbose away! Just stay on target. And use the force whenever possible. :D

NEW RULE FOR NERDS. All words must be less than 15 characters.

0110111000110111 00111100000000 11101

**nod**

We really shold get BOT (Back On Topic).

Unfortunately, I don't know a lot more about Israel/Palestine than that both countries reckon they have an entirely legitimate claim to the same land, and neither will stand down to give it to the other on religious grounds.

Which is a right pain.

----------NEW POINT-----------

By the way, I think Israel should have been created. But I also think it should've been thought through properly.

Wonderful (really), but all too rare. Shorter is better.

My lesson/experiment is over (but I may be watching). The self-important, idiot-quoting, pontificators, will SOON RETAKE THIS THREAD.

Good points, Matalatataka and All I Survey (made a while back):

The people who are too lazy to read and comprehend a long post aren't the kinds of people I want to be debating things with, anyways...

And the type of people who only type 10-words-or-less posts aren't really among that group, either... After all, if they're not going to put some thought into their posts, and give us material to work with, what's the point?

I mean, text is our only means of communication over the internet (well, the only one common enough), so shorting yourself on that is sort of counter-intuitive, isn't it?

NEW RULE FOR NERDS. All words must be less than 15 characters.Auww...

But I wanted to use sesquinlitterals. :D

I mean, text is our only means of communication over the internet (well, the only one common enough), so shorting yourself on that is sort of counter-intuitive, isn't it?Very much so. When I'm debating something and I actually have the knowledge to construct a decent argument, I will frequently type a hefty chunk of text.

But when I'm idly chatting, like my current disparagements of BL, I don't type much. For a start, it's a bit of a waste of time. ^^


EDIT: Ooh, I double-posted. Apologies - I figured that someone else would've posted in the time I took to write this.

**nod**

We really shold get BOT (Back On Topic).

Unfortunately, I don't know a lot more about Israel/Palestine than that both countries reckon they have an entirely legitimate claim to the same land, and neither will stand down to give it to the other on religious grounds.

Which is a right pain.

----------NEW POINT-----------

By the way, I think Israel should have been created. But I also think it should've been thought through properly.
if we back to the time Israel created, you see that only the arabs claim fot ALL the holy land.
the jewish agreed to the UN decision who divide the land fairly (or even FOR the arabs).
IF only the arabs make a state for themselves by the UN decision, and the Israeli arabs take the Israeli citizenship or move to yhe palastinian countrey, almost all the problem in the middle east was solved.
but that wasn't happen- too bad for us.

Good points, Matalatataka and All I Survey (made a while back):

The people who are too lazy to read and comprehend a long post aren't the kinds of people I want to be debating things with, anyways...

And the type of people who only type 10-words-or-less posts aren't really among that group, either... After all, if they're not going to put some thought into their posts, and give us material to work with, what's the point?

I mean, text is our only means of communication over the internet (well, the only one common enough), so shorting yourself on that is sort of counter-intuitive, isn't it?

the only problem with my posts is they were 10 words or less proving him somewhat right :D

if we back to the time Israel created, you see that only the arabs claim fot ALL the holy land.
the jewish agreed to the UN decision who divide the land fairly (or even FOR the arabs).Yeah, that sounds about right. So the land they both have the claim to is the other half of what the Arabs already have. Hmm.

about the land thing the arabs originally took the land from the jews so the jews taking land from the arabs or any one taking the land from anyone is somewhat of a moot point because unfortunatly "Might makes Right"

Isreal has made some very bad decisions in the past though many that have pissed me off but of the 2 choices they are the lesser evil so to speak

Yeah, that sounds about right. So the land they both have the claim to is the other half of what the Arabs already have. Hmm.
for the ones who don't want to destruct Israel (like Hamas), you right.

Very much so. When I'm debating something and I actually have the knowledge to construct a decent argument, I will frequently type a hefty chunk of text.

But when I'm idly chatting, like my current disparagements of BL, I don't type much. For a start, it's a bit of a waste of time. ^^

EDIT: Ooh, I double-posted. Apologies - I figured that someone else would've posted in the time I took to write this.

Well, to address the issues here:

I don't really have a problem with typing short posts if there's really not much to put into them... I mean, if all you have to say is "Hi, [so and so]!" then there's really not a good way to stretch that to more than 10 words...lol

And as for double-posting, I only mean that it is wrong in the case (as BL committed a few times) where you've got more than one thing to say in a single post, but you deliberately turn it into two or more posts... Even worse in the cases where he quoted himself just to add another line... Spam, spam, spam...

But it's alright if you have another thought to add, or another new reply to comment on... Although, sometimes, in those cases, the "Edit" button could be used to just add the extra bit onto your previous post (which is what BL should have been doing when he was quoting himself just to add another line)

But anyways, I'm not in charge here, and I'm not the expert, so no one has to listen to my advice...lol

[Edit:] To get back on topic (sort of), I just want to point out how ironic I've always thought it was that some of the most bitter fighting on Earth is being committed over land that is considered to be the Holiest...

Yeah, that sounds about right. So the land they both have the claim to is the other half of what the Arabs already have. Hmm.

Hmmm. 5 minutes. More pontification. Easy data for PhD Thesis.

It shouldnt be there, or at least it should return to its original boundaires. Most of the conflicts and terrorism in this world are rooted in this problem.

Could someone please tell me how many arab states there are, and then tell me how many jewish states there are. Surely the jews deserve a homeland after the holocaust, where ever you build that homeland people already living there will be annoyed.

I would like to remind everyone that Israel is the only true democracy in the middle-east and that the arabs could claim half of the land of israel but this wasnt good enough so a compromise could not be achieved.

Onto the occupied territories. 98% of these were offerd back to the palestinians in 2000 by Barak, however this was not good enough for Mr Arafat!

Please lets have a grown-up debate about this issue because it doesnt seem that the real world can!

Hmmm. 5 minutes. More pontification. Easy data for PhD Thesis.
A sort concise reply is usualy cutting out more important details which change the entire spin on the topic
usualy making the reply much like propaganda or disinformation
which is used by conservatives to trick people in to believing there is a simple answer to their problem like "no child left behind"
kinda ironic that someone whose name is Blind Liberals

EDIT forgot to finish my sentence

would encourage short replies

Could someone please tell me how many arab states there are, and then tell me how many jewish states there are. Surely the jews deserve a homeland after the holocaust, where ever you build that homeland people already living there will be annoyed.

I would like to remind everyone that Israel is the only true democracy in the middle-east and that the arabs could claim half of the land of israel but this wasnt good enough so a compromise could not be achieved.

Onto the occupied territories. 98% of these were offerd back to the palestinians in 2000 by Barak, however this was not good enough for Mr Arafat!

Please lets have a grown-up debate about this issue because it doesnt seem that the real world can!

most of the reason arafat does not do anything is that he has and never had any real power, palestine as people seem to forget is not a nation and has no control over the population
The PLO are just that, even if Arafat agreed to any of the number of treaties it would not do any good because the suicide bombings would continue or possibly get worse there is no easy solution to this problem*

*none besides the stupid ones
i.e. nuke em all!!!!

I had family who die in the Sho'a.

now, can you move your ass and read my fucking reply?


Green israel, I had to go back a few pages to find this, and I'm not quoting the entire post. Hope this doesn't upset you.

First, I can't imagine what it would be like to loose family in a terrorist attack, buit it's got to be hard. I do have friends who lost family or friends in the 9/11 attack and it was bad enough. You have my sympathy.

This being said, if Israel was only fighting to protect it's internal lands the issue would be very different, but part of the problem many have with Israel's defense of itself is more with the expansion into the occupied territories by the Jewish settlements and the actions taken by those living in the settlements against the Palestinians, not all of whom are soldiers. There have been many missle strikes by Sharon that have killed non-combatants as collateral damage. This is no better than your family being killed in the Sho'a.

Also, much of Israel's heavy weapons come from the United States. This military support has caused much of the Arab world to hate us. How would Israelis feel if American Defense Contractors started selling their helecopters and tanks and missles to other Arab countries in the same numbers as they sell to Israel?

Lastly, please ease up on the foul language. It isn't needed or appreciated and only hurts the points you try to make.

Where did you come from. Actually,(in spite of you total lack of knowledge), the "LAWS" of Muslims and Jews are closer to each other, than the beliefs of Christians. Get a Bible.
Except for the fact that under sharia laws Jews are treated as third class citizens with no legal recourse, but under Israeli law mulsim citizens of Israel have nearly all the same rights as Jews. Even the right to run for office and vote.

Think about it this way: how would you like it if one day the government of another country told you you had to move out of your house and let another family move in there because that family had been being harrassed or was in danger in their current home? Sure, of course you feel bad for the family that is in danger - but that doesn't give anyone else, particularly someone else's government, the right to kick you out of your own house, does it? The Holocaust was an apalling thing and it was the culmination of centuries of anti-Semitism in Europe. Of course Jewish people have the same right to live in safety as everyone else. But that doesn't mean that their safety can be purchased at the expense of someone else's sovereignty.

The UN, the UK, the US, whoever ultimately made the decision had no authority, in my mind, to establish an Israeli state. As such, this state is not valid. But as others have said, it's all just theory now. The practicality of it is that possession is nine-tenths of the law, and Israel does exist now in real terms whether it should or not. There's no realistic way to kick all the Israeli people out and forcibly relocate them. We made the mess and we have to help fix it, just as the US must stay and rebuild Iraq even though we never should have gone in there in the first place.

I do think that Western governments should stop unilaterally backing the Israeli government and put a lot more pressure on both sides, that no financial or military assistance will be given to anyone until the violence stops. That probably sounds like a contradiction, but I'm seeing sanctions (or whatever) as an encouragement to finding a workable peace plan rather than a cop-out of not doing anything.

I don't know whether anything will ever fix it though, to be honest. Unfortunately I think the situation there is one of those things that will be with us pretty much forever, barring something like a meteor hitting it and wiping everyone out, or an earthquake actually splitting the earth in half.

Oh and BL, you do know that Judaism and Islam are not that different from each other, nor from Christianity, because all three descend from Abraham and because Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God, just in different ways? Christianity is effectively a schismed (if that's a word) sect of Judaism which believes that the messiah has already come.
The palestinians were not moved off their land. The Jews were merely moved in beside them. The majority of palestinians left Israel when their neighboring arab countries decided they would attack simultaneously and kill all the jews. They told the palestinians to get out of the way for a few days and then they could return and take all the leftover jewish wealth and property. To everyone's surprise the Jews kicked the crap out of the Arabs. The Jews, having been betrayed by their palestinian neighbors, denied them right of return. They were justified in doing so. Your argument is a collossal pile of BULLSHIT!!

It shouldnt be there, or at least it should return to its original boundaires. Most of the conflicts and terrorism in this world are rooted in this problem.
I've never seen any real evidence of this, just people claiming it is so.

Green israel, I had to go back a few pages to find this, and I'm not quoting the entire post. Hope this doesn't upset you.

First, I can't imagine what it would be like to loose family in a terrorist attack, buit it's got to be hard. I do have friends who lost family or friends in the 9/11 attack and it was bad enough. You have my sympathy.

This being said, if Israel was only fighting to protect it's internal lands the issue would be very different, but part of the problem many have with Israel's defense of itself is more with the expansion into the occupied territories by the Jewish settlements and the actions taken by those living in the settlements against the Palestinians, not all of whom are soldiers. There have been many missle strikes by Sharon that have killed non-combatants as collateral damage. This is no better than your family being killed in the Sho'a.

Also, much of Israel's heavy weapons come from the United States. This military support has caused much of the Arab world to hate us. How would Israelis feel if American Defense Contractors started selling their helecopters and tanks and missles to other Arab countries in the same numbers as they sell to Israel?

Lastly, please ease up on the foul language. It isn't needed or appreciated and only hurts the points you try to make.
Saudi Arabia is loaded with American made M1 main battle tanks and American aircraft. Don't give me that bullshit about us only providing weapons to Israel. Jordan has a shitload of US weapons as well. What do you want us to do? Sell them to Syria? Those fuckers are such terrorist sponsors that other arabs dont' even trust them.

It happens too often.

In Rwanda, out of a population of roughly 7.5 million in April 1994 about 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were killed.


Currently, in Darfur, Sudan, about ''1,449,690 people have been forced from their homes. Imagine more than the population of Dallas expelled from the city and scattered across the Texas plains.''

''The World Health Organization estimates that 10,000 people die each month in Darfur. At a rate of 14 deaths per hour, the number of lives lost each week is equivalent to the total lost in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.''

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=195053

The palestinians were not moved off their land. The Jews were merely moved in beside them. The majority of palestinians left Israel when their neighboring arab countries decided they would attack simultaneously and kill all the jews. They told the palestinians to get out of the way for a few days and then they could return and take all the leftover jewish wealth and property. To everyone's surprise the Jews kicked the crap out of the Arabs. The Jews, having been betrayed by their palestinian neighbors, denied them right of return. They were justified in doing so. Your argument is a collossal pile of BULLSHIT!!

You had me all right up until the last statement. I know this is an emotional issue but there's no need to be rude.

I have never claimed to be an expert of any kind on the situation in Israel, but having moved from the US to the UK when I got married I have seen the whole thing from a different perspective than the one shown by the US media. There are atrocities being committed by both sides over there and in my opinion the Palestinians do have a right to be angry (albeit not a right to blow people up in retaliation.) It's just my opinion, so there's no need to cuss me out over it.

You had me all right up until the last statement. I know this is an emotional issue but there's no need to be rude.

I have never claimed to be an expert of any kind on the situation in Israel, but having moved from the US to the UK when I got married I have seen the whole thing from a different perspective than the one shown by the US media. There are atrocities being committed by both sides over there and in my opinion the Palestinians do have a right to be angry (albeit not a right to blow people up in retaliation.) It's just my opinion, so there's no need to cuss me out over it.
Sorry about the rudeness. It wasn't right. I'm just a little frazzled. I've been through a wedding, a surprise party, and dozens of debates on NS this week. Once again, I offer my sincere appologies, and I hope we can engage in civil debate and discussion in the future.

Sorry about the rudeness. It wasn't right. I'm just a little frazzled. I've been through a wedding, a surprise party, and dozens of debates on NS this week. Once again, I offer my sincere appologies, and I hope we can engage in civil debate and discussion in the future.

It's ok, I'm renowned for being hopelessly oversensitive. I don't know why I even post on any political forums, it's a recipe for disaster. :rolleyes:

Basically (in ten words or less, ha) Israel = big mess, no easy answer, makes me sad. :(

Okay, let's put this simple.

Green Israel, you've got most of the points there.

BL, you're a bloody numbskull.

And anybody posting here should at least do us all, as (I'd hope) intelligent people, the courtesy of actually making sure they havea ***ing clue what they're on about before prattling.

Fact is, the Israeli's are there, there are many opinions as to whether they should be or not, but they are. Fact is, they never actually forced the palestinians out of the land, that was the work of the invading Arab governments who told them to leave. So, the refugee issue is a no-brainer.

Fact is, Israel has offered peace several times in the past, has even offered a state that would have given the palestinians 94% of the gaza strip, and a total of 91% of what they were asking for, including part of Jerusalem/Yerushala'im. And their government rejected it, whoopee. So it's Israel's fault for perpetuating the violence now, is it, hmm?

And fact is, that wall has stopped the terrorist attacks dead in their tracks; there has been a total of one pair of attacks in the last seven months, compared to the almost weekly explosions during the peak of the intifada.


Live and learn, kids, live and learn.