NationStates Jolt Archive


Odd and weird fact

Grays Hill
26-11-2004, 09:00
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?
Dobbs Town
26-11-2004, 09:07
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?

Not to sound snotty, but I've known this since Grade Ten Ancient & Medieval History, and I find it neither odd nor weird.

How do you know there hasn't already been a bisexual American president, even a great one?

Now there's food for thought.
Colodia
26-11-2004, 09:09
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?
I saw a list that said that, but wasn't it unconfirmed or something?
Grays Hill
26-11-2004, 09:10
Not to sound snotty, but I've known this since Grade Ten Ancient & Medieval History, and I find it neither odd nor weird.

How do you know there hasn't already been a bisexual American president, even a great one?

Now there's food for thought.

Well, I'm only in the 11th grade, so I'm not that far behind :P. But yeah, thats an interesting thought.
Yammo
26-11-2004, 09:10
It might happen, but only if they didn't make a big deal out of it, i.e making gay rights a huge part of their policy.

Of course, who is to say it hasn't happened already? Not everyone knows what happens in the bedroom.
Grays Hill
26-11-2004, 09:12
I saw a list that said that, but wasn't it unconfirmed or something?

No, I heard about it on Fox News, they asked some expert guy on the movie Alexander's Historical accuracy, and the issue of him being bisexual came up and he said that that was actually true. Then I watched a programm on the Discovery Channel the same day, like 2 hours later, and it said he was too.
Strange Persons
26-11-2004, 09:17
No, I heard about it on Fox News, they asked some expert guy on the movie Alexander's Historical accuracy, and the issue of him being bisexual came up and he said that that was actually true. Then I watched a programm on the Discovery Channel the same day, like 2 hours later, and it said he was too.

they wouldn't put programmes on the disc. chnnl for things like that... NORMAL people dont find it INTERESTING
The Black Forrest
26-11-2004, 09:19
If you mean the US, there is no way in HELL an open Bisexual could get elected.

You saw how the shrub got elected by the anti-gay marriage vote.

I have heard a rumor that Lincoln might have been one or gay. There was a friend that seemed to be near him all the time.

Never looked into it myself as it does not bother me.....
Legit Business
26-11-2004, 09:19
No, I heard about it on Fox News, they asked some expert guy on the movie Alexander's Historical accuracy, and the issue of him being bisexual came up and he said that that was actually true. Then I watched a programm on the Discovery Channel the same day, like 2 hours later, and it said he was too.

Yea and i herd some woman on the radio the other day who said jesus was gay that dont make it true. and besides what is considered bi in our day and age may not be the same as the Greeks thought of it back then
Grays Hill
26-11-2004, 09:20
they wouldn't put programmes on the disc. chnnl for things like that... NORMAL people dont find it INTERESTING

The show was acutally trying to solve how he was died, and if it was murder. It just mentioned his lover a few times. And in the re-inactments his lover was another male, and his name was that of a Greek male. (I cant remember it off the top of my head)
Kellarly
26-11-2004, 09:24
Well depending on which city state of greece you were in, say for example Sparta, being gay or bisexual was considered as being on the same level as relationships between men and women. not all places agreed of course, but still it was more the norm back then than it is seen now.
Helioterra
26-11-2004, 09:32
Our president has been a president of a gay rights organisation. I don't know if she's bi or not, she's married to a man anyway. And it has never been an issue. Only the biggest idiot in our parliament has said anything about it.

This president is more popular than any president we've ever had.
Legit Business
26-11-2004, 09:33
Well depending on which city state of greece you were in, say for example Sparta, being gay or bisexual was considered as being on the same level as relationships between men and women. not all places agreed of course, but still it was more the norm back then than it is seen now.

So what your saying is that there was not the same type of social stigma and that he wasnt a closet homo of sorts. and it would not be like say bush comming out of the closet
Legit Business
26-11-2004, 09:36
Our president has been a president of a gay rights organisation. I don't know if she's bi or not, she's married to a man anyway. And it has never been an issue. Only the biggest idiot in our parliament has said anything about it.

This president is more popular than any president we've ever had.

Your making a comparison to the US right?

That simply couldnt work in the US because, religon and "family values" disproved the claim "its the economey stupid"
Dobbs Town
26-11-2004, 09:39
Your making a comparison to the US right?

That simply couldnt work in the US because, religon and "family values" disproved the claim "its the economey stupid"

What makes you think Helioterra's comparing anything? It's a straightforward series of statements.
Kellarly
26-11-2004, 09:41
So what your saying is that there was not the same type of social stigma and that he wasnt a closet homo of sorts. and it would not be like say bush comming out of the closet

Exactly, as i said, depending on the city state, it would be seen as normal and so no-one would really be too bothered about it. One Spartan wrote (I am trying to find the source, it was in a greek history book i read years ago, so the words aren't exactly right, just have the same meaning) that "The love between two men is more than it could ever be between a man and a woman." So it was even seen as a superior love by some. Thats why it might not be referred to as much, like Achilles lover as well (replaced in the movie by his 'cousin'), because it was the norm and accepted as such.
Hobbslandia
26-11-2004, 09:44
I have spent a fair bit of time in Greece.
The Ancient Greeks didn't have the same mindset as exists today towards sexuality. By today's standards you would think them completely sexually perverted, but it was then considered quite normal.
Men were considered a higher level than women. Sex between a man and a woman was, while pleasurable, considered more for the procreation of the species than "love" as we would consider it.
Men routinely had sex with other men, and often with young boys, and this was considered "love"
Please don't assume I am condoning, just stating the facts.
Niccolo Medici
26-11-2004, 09:50
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?

Alexander was born into a society that did not stigmatize bisexual relations to any strong degree; thus he was considered to be fairly "normal" in that regard. He was of course a military genius and a brilliant leader of men. It was not that he was seen as having extraordinary traits in his sexual life in addition to his extraordinary traits as a leader, he just happened to be bisexual.

Simply put, it was a non-issue. Do I think it could happen in today's times? Certainly it could, but in the US it would have to be a person of a singular greatness perhaps exceeding that of Alexander himself due to the societal stigmas that bisexual behavior has. These stigmas would be a tremendous hurdle for anyone working "within" the system, thus such a person would likely seek their fortune "outside" our system.

Actually, I think a possible comparison would be Bruce Lee. If you look at the hurdles the man faced as a man of Chinese origin looking for jobs in Hollywood in that time period; you can see tha even his talent was simply blocked from public view by nervous producers. To go the "backdoor" route by first becoming a star in Hong Kong cinema and then coming back already a star allowed him to achive US fame for his talents that were not recognized just a few years earlier.

Now, Hollywood is not Washington, so the comparison can only be taken so far, but still I think it illustrates to some degree how one can overcome such innate hurdles placed on you by society.
Lunatic Goofballs
26-11-2004, 10:23
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?

They didn't really think about such things back then. Concepts like homosexuality and bisexuality were really just part of life. However, it's important to note that it was considered irresponsible and a bit freakish to not settle down in a heterosexual relationship and have kids.
Harlesburg
26-11-2004, 10:32
Hmm guess how the greeks carried their money around?
In their mouths Daughter wants some money Daddy gets a pash hmmmm :fluffle:

It was completly normal to have boy whores too and maybe girl

Dude was his "best friend"

Greeks try and steal Alexander but hes really a Macedon!
Lunatic Goofballs
26-11-2004, 10:35
Hmm guess how the greeks carried their money around?
In their mouths Daughter wants some money Daddy gets a pash hmmmm :fluffle:

It was completly normal to have boy whores too and maybe girl

Dude was his "best friend"

Greeks try and steal Alexander but hes really a Macedon!

*blink* He had huge tusks and was covered in fur? :confused:
NianNorth
26-11-2004, 11:23
No, I heard about it on Fox News, they asked some expert guy on the movie Alexander's Historical accuracy, and the issue of him being bisexual came up and he said that that was actually true. Then I watched a programm on the Discovery Channel the same day, like 2 hours later, and it said he was too.
Ok so what evidence did they quote?
Dobbs Town
26-11-2004, 18:00
One interesting anecdote survives. After overthrowing Darius III, the Great King of Persia, Alexander went into the Persian royal tent (accompanied as usual by Hephaestion) to inspect the captured property. To his surprise, he found that Darius had left behind his mother, wife, and son when he fled.

The Persian royal family, thinking that the Macedonians had come to kill them, feared for their lives. Darius' mother, Sisigambis, assuming that the taller and more handsome of the two men was Alexander, rushed forward and threw herself at Hephaestion's feet.

Apparently she was mortified when it became clear that the beautiful man she was appealing to wasn't the scourge of the Persian Empire. Alexander, interestingly, received all this with amusement, and made a cryptic (yet somehow telling) remark: "Mother, it's all right, because Hephaestion is Alexander, too."



And for you nitpickers who INSIST on having clickable 'sources', here you go:

http://www.shotopress.com/titles/golden_vine/hephaestion.html
Xenasia
26-11-2004, 18:33
The ancient Thebans (greek nation) had a special part of their army, (whose title escaps me, must check it) made up entirley of gay men who fought beside their lover. The idea being they would perfom any feat of heroism to save him. They were greatly feared as a fighting force at the time.
Saipea
26-11-2004, 18:34
Am I the only one who finds the poll options kinda loaded?

What if I don't think anyone who is bisexual would be elected President in the US any time soon, but that if they were, they would make a great leader?
Dobbs Town
26-11-2004, 18:55
Am I the only one who finds the poll options kinda loaded?

What if I don't think anyone who is bisexual would be elected President in the US any time soon, but that if they were, they would make a great leader?

The options are just as loaded as most NS polls. That being said, I wouldn't suggest making another more specific poll as it tends to get repeptitive.

I guess that's really what posting messages is all about - dealing with the finer details...eh?
Spurland
26-11-2004, 18:59
Nothing wrong with bisexuality.

Also known this for some time now..
Irrational Numbers
26-11-2004, 19:39
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?

First off, I wouldn't care if someone was bisexual, as long as they were bipartisan.

Second, well yeah, Ancient Greeks were no hypocrites! They knew (did I say knew? I meant "they thought" wink wink wink) that women were evil, and rather than succumb to women's charm alot of them had gay relationships instead. Talk about sticking by your principles!
Texan Hotrodders
26-11-2004, 20:21
Not to sound snotty, but I've known this since Grade Ten Ancient & Medieval History, and I find it neither odd nor weird.

Neither do I. I was under the impression that it was fairly common for Greek males in positions of power to have lovers of the same sex.
East Canuck
26-11-2004, 20:32
Your making a comparison to the US right?

That simply couldnt work in the US because, religon and "family values" disproved the claim "its the economey stupid"

Point of interest: the original question and poll never mention the US. So, comparing to the US is not really answering the original question.

As such, I would say yes as some part of the world don't put that much importance on sexual orientation.
Dark Kanatia
26-11-2004, 20:45
From what I remember, some Greek states thought that it was normal to have homosexual relationships before marriage and that homosexual relationships were superior to heterosexual relationships because women were not thought to be as good as men.
Zincite
26-11-2004, 20:49
Not to sound snotty, but I've known this since Grade Ten Ancient & Medieval History, and I find it neither odd nor weird.

Well, I'm only in the 11th grade, so I'm not that far behind :P.

I've known for two years and I'm only in 9th grade, so HA I trump you both!
Dobbs Town
26-11-2004, 21:10
I've known for two years and I'm only in 9th grade, so HA I trump you both!

Except for the fact that my grade 10 class took place 18 years ago, yes, you're right. Hats off to you-!
Eichen
26-11-2004, 21:28
I've never read so many stupid pointless posts.
Yeah, by today's standards he was "bisexual". But there really wasn't any definition of "gay, straight, bisexual", etc., until recently.
EVERYONE was bisexual because they didn't define themselves by so-called sexual identities.
Nadianara
26-11-2004, 21:38
I meant to vote yes and I voted no! what do I do!
Kryogenerica
27-11-2004, 00:46
Well, I don't know if this rates as "in these times", as it was a few decades ago, but Winston Churchill, who is acknowledged as one of the greatest leaders of modern times is supposed to have had at least one homosexual fling (with Ivor Novello, a comedic actor) and it didn't seem to make him any better or worse as a leader. :fluffle:

Someones sexuality (as long as it isn't repressed and twisted until it dominates their personality has no bearing at all on whether they are capable leaders or not. It is the prejudices of those they are trying to lead that screws everything up.....
Dobbs Town
27-11-2004, 00:50
Well, I don't know if this rates as "in these times", as it was a few decades ago, but Winston Churchill, who is acknowledged as one of the greatest leaders of modern times is supposed to have had at least one homosexual fling (with Ivor Novello, a comedic actor) and it didn't seem to make him any better or worse as a leader. :fluffle:

Someones sexuality (as long as it isn't repressed and twisted until it dominates their personality has no bearing at all on whether they are capable leaders or not. It is the prejudices of those they are trying to lead that screws everything up.....

ehhh, close enough for jazz. Cool example, had not heard that one.
Grays Hill
27-11-2004, 01:10
Yeah, I have never heard that either. That's also very interesting.
Bodies Without Organs
27-11-2004, 03:33
How do you know there hasn't already been a bisexual American president, even a great one?

~cough~ James Buchanan* ~cough~









* most probably.
Arconnus
27-11-2004, 03:41
Does anyone have any legit evidence of all this gay stuff in ancient times, such as the Alexander being Bi and the Thebans gay army unit? Comes as a surprise to me, find it hard to believe, but if it is true I'd like to see something on it.
Bodies Without Organs
27-11-2004, 03:45
Does anyone have any legit evidence of all this gay stuff in ancient times, such as the Alexander being Bi and the Thebans gay army unit? Comes as a surprise to me, find it hard to believe, but if it is true I'd like to see something on it.

You could go and have a read of the Socratic dialogues written by Plato, they mention the common occurence of man-boy love matter-of-factly.
Xenasia
27-11-2004, 04:14
Does anyone have any legit evidence of all this gay stuff in ancient times, such as the Alexander being Bi and the Thebans gay army unit? Comes as a surprise to me, find it hard to believe, but if it is true I'd like to see something on it.
tried to find some accademic stuff, mostly I know it from books so online is harder:
one (http://www.bigeye.com/sexeducation/ancientgreece.html)
two (http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa072099.htm)
I will try to find something about the Theban unit (I hope it was the Thebans!)
Xenasia
27-11-2004, 04:19
I will try to find something about the Theban unit (I hope it was the Thebans!)
Here we go, it was called The Sacred Band

link (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1373/is_n11_v44/ai_15901325)
Hiberniae
27-11-2004, 04:29
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?
The greeks and romans(until christianity took over) didnt really care about homosexual relationships. The greeks were just not suppose to do it anymore once they were married (both cultures would only allow hetero marriages, but marriage was more of a business/political thing then a love thing) There was only one completely straight roman emperor (that we know of, there was one year when they went through about 7 emperors so one of them could have been straight).
Harlesburg
27-11-2004, 08:10
The ancient Thebans (greek nation) had a special part of their army, (whose title escaps me, must check it) made up entirley of gay men who fought beside their lover. The idea being they would perfom any feat of heroism to save him. They were greatly feared as a fighting force at the time.
You may be talking about the companions?
oh no Companions were Alexanders troops i got a bit confused :p
Harlesburg
27-11-2004, 08:18
*blink* He had huge tusks and was covered in fur? :confused:
i think you mean masterdon

oh and yeah sacred band Xenasia
they cease to exist after a massive battle
Xenasia
27-11-2004, 15:03
oh and yeah sacred band Xenasia
they cease to exist after a massive battle
Yes they did, they fought to the last man in a battle against Philip of Macedon. Alexander's father. The Macedonians had superior tactics and arms and were in the process of changing the balance of power with their neighbours. It was victories such as this against the best soldiers of the other Greek nations that helped build the national confidence that Alexander used to take on the world.
Superpower07
27-11-2004, 15:14
Actaully, I did know Alexander the Great was Bi.

I have no problem with it, or a bi leader coming to power - however this one ub3r-nationalist Greek kid at my school (also borderline Neo-Nazi) went berserk at how somebody told him this fact.
Xenasia
27-11-2004, 15:18
Actaully, I did know Alexander the Great was Bi.

I have no problem with it, or a bi leader coming to power - however this one ub3r-nationalist Greek kid at my school (also borderline Neo-Nazi) went berserk at how somebody told him this fact.
Having lived in Greece I know that they are very sensitive about the image and identity of Alexander and Macedonia because of the claims made over that region of Greece by most of their neighbours since modern Greece won its independance.
Harlesburg
27-11-2004, 20:54
The key thing is they got independence from turkey right?
So they go oh Alexander is great he'll be our inspiration we'll take him as our national inspiration too bad he was a Macedon(ian)MUPPETS

And Greece dosent deserve the Statues and the like that britain saved from Turkish destruction.
Dobbs Town
27-11-2004, 20:59
Actaully, I did know Alexander the Great was Bi.

I have no problem with it, or a bi leader coming to power - however this one ub3r-nationalist Greek kid at my school (also borderline Neo-Nazi) went berserk at how somebody told him this fact.

Well...and I know this'll step on the toes of patriotic Greeks everywhere...but the Greeks of ages past aren't the same people as the Greeks of today...the Greeks of old are today's Macedonians, while the Greeks of today are the Turks of ancient, or really, not-so ancient times...

*dodges ouzo bottles*

I'm just SAYING...!
Friend Computer
27-11-2004, 21:09
The Ancient Greeks slept with everything and anything, and good on them for it.
For example, if you know the story of the Siege of Troy, Achilles had a protege called Patroculus (who went into battle in Achilles's armour and got killed when Achilles was sulking to inspire the other Greeks), and this traditionally meant they slept together as well. But for the recent (and terrible) film 'Troy', Hollywood, of course, wasn't very keen on this idea, so they made Patroculus his cousin or something.
And, among the fierce warriors of Sparta, homosexuality was encouraged so that the soldiers were not only fighting for their own lives, but their lovers' as well.
New Genoa
27-11-2004, 21:27
Hephastion was his lover, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Friend Computer
27-11-2004, 21:32
I believe you're right, but I think it might be spelt 'Hephaestion'.
Xenasia
28-11-2004, 01:40
The key thing is they got independence from turkey right?
So they go oh Alexander is great he'll be our inspiration we'll take him as our national inspiration too bad he was a Macedon(ian)MUPPETS

And Greece dosent deserve the Statues and the like that britain saved from Turkish destruction.
Both matters of dispute and personal opinion really.
Haloman
28-11-2004, 02:05
Alexander the great was bisexual. Caesar was gay, I believe Napaleon was bisexual (at least that's what I heard.). An english king, Edward, the son of Edward Longshanks was most definetely gay. (You might remember him from Braveheart.)

So, really, it has no bearing on wether or not one would make a great leader. It's still a sin, but sins can be forgiven.
Phaiakia
28-11-2004, 03:21
Does anyone have any legit evidence of all this gay stuff in ancient times, such as the Alexander being Bi and the Thebans gay army unit? Comes as a surprise to me, find it hard to believe, but if it is true I'd like to see something on it.

Dude, if you do any course on Ancient History to do with the Greeks, it will come up in some shape or form.

You have to keep in mind that homosexual is a 19th century medical term and that homosexuality as we understand it is not the same as what the ancients understood. Changing social mores.

Pederasty was common amongst the Ancient Greeks. This was where an older man took on a young boy, his beloved. They formed a relationship where basically the older man gave the younger the benefit of education etc etc.


I always find it amusing how people are so surprised to hear these things, to hear that Alexander may have been bisexual himself. Psh, a bunch of Greek academics have taken the Alexander the Great movie makers to court for saying he was gay in the movie...I hear anyway. Craziness I say.

Would it matter if people of today weren't obsessed with the thought of non-heterosexual relationships?

He was also an alcoholic, that was prone to irrationaility and acting on impulse when drunk. He set fire to a city and killed a man who'd saved his life, both in drunken rages. He also incurred the hatred of his men when he took on Persian customs and becam less and less the "first amongst equals" ideal.

He was a man like any other and a man in different times. Why wouldn't he take on a male lover. How many women were there in his army?
Harlesburg
28-11-2004, 06:25
Alexander the great was bisexual. Caesar was gay, I believe Napaleon was bisexual (at least that's what I heard.). An english king, Edward, the son of Edward Longshanks was most definetely gay. (You might remember him from Braveheart.)

So, really, it has no bearing on wether or not one would make a great leader. It's still a sin, but sins can be forgiven.

Not sure about Caesar
Edward the 2nd had Hugh Despenser and Piers Graveson they were like best friends it pee'd off other noble that they got land etc but the gay thing is potentially propoganda.Not sure which one came first but the nobles killed one so Edward picked the other as his "favourite".
Edward liked to Build,garden,Row and dig, things deemed un-Kingly

William Wallace skinned an english Paymaster bet you didnt know that!
But its ok the english didnt like him either :D

Both matters of dispute and personal opinion really
Phillip of Macedon and Alexander the great were both Macedonians although Alexander may have been born in Greece(which at the time was Macedonian land)But intended to extend his fathers lands.

But the key thing is the statues that the lord whats his face didnt rescue were destroyed by the Turks and he sold them to the British Museum.
It would be good if they were returned but it will do no harm if Britain keeps them.

Greece is lucky that "the Bloody Amoeba" isnt ruling them-Points if anyone knows who that is :D
HadesRulesMuch
28-11-2004, 06:28
Well, there is a lot of suspicion that he may have had "relations" with his friend from boyhood, Hephaistus (spelling?), but in all honesty the Greek culture was a breeding ground for homosexuality.
Harlesburg
28-11-2004, 06:37
Dude, if you do any course on Ancient History to do with the Greeks, it will come up in some shape or form.

You have to keep in mind that homosexual is a 19th century medical term and that homosexuality as we understand it is not the same as what the ancients understood. Changing social mores.
True that Queen Victoria was asked to pass the law and did but excluded the love of a Woman on a Woman because "Ladies would'nt do that"
Yeah but what if you payed two Whores to indulge in each other?-but you cant argue with the Queen although her Lady in waiting did!

Pederasty was common amongst the Ancient Greeks. This was where an older man took on a young boy, his beloved. They formed a relationship where basically the older man gave the younger the benefit of education etc etc.
True that

I always find it amusing how people are so surprised to hear these things, to hear that Alexander may have been bisexual himself. Psh, a bunch of Greek academics have taken the Alexander the Great movie makers to court for saying he was gay in the movie...I hear anyway. Craziness I say.

Would it matter if people of today weren't obsessed with the thought of non-heterosexual relationships?
Its the three great religeons

He was also an alcoholic, that was prone to irrationaility and acting on impulse when drunk. He set fire to a city and killed a man who'd saved his life, both in drunken rages. He also incurred the hatred of his men when he took on Persian customs and becam less and less the "first amongst equals" ideal.
It wasnt just any city it was the great Persian Capital? and he decided to do it after listening to a whore's counsel while drunk indeed.
She said can i burn the city he said sure it might be fun!

He was a man like any other and a man in different times. Why wouldn't he take on a male lover. How many women were there in his army?
Probably zilch but theirs always a baggage train of Whores some where
Grays Hill
28-11-2004, 06:42
Wasnt it illegal for the soldiers to have sex with prostitutes, I thought this was the whole reason they had gay relationships?
Harlesburg
28-11-2004, 06:48
i wont doubt you if it is true
Women are a distraction at the best of times
Alexander did share the company of Whores though
Phaiakia
28-11-2004, 08:47
It wasnt just any city it was the great Persian Capital? and he decided to do it after listening to a whore's counsel while drunk indeed.
She said can i burn the city he said sure it might be fun!

Probably zilch but theirs always a baggage train of Whores some where


I can't remember...it's been 6 years since I studied Alexander, I forget the name of the city. I do remember about the whore and all the circumstances. And the guy he killed was Cleitus, I remember that :D

He did marry Roxane too...what do you need whores for when you can rape and pillage...
Phaiakia
28-11-2004, 08:58
Wait...my memory's been jogged, it was Perseopolis, the Palace rather than the whole city ofcourse ;)
Peardon
28-11-2004, 09:01
I just found out that Alexander the great was bisexual! I knew that gay relationships went back that far, but I would have never though someone like Alexander the Great himself would have been bi. And he was such an great leader. Do you think that It could happen in today's times? Could someone who is Bisexual be elected president and be a great leader?
Look at the poll question and then look at your follow up question.... :confused:
They are different....Did you intend that?
Nekonokuni
28-11-2004, 09:20
I do not know why this would shock anyone. Face it people, nothing anyone does now, in the field of sexuality, is really new in any way. It's been going on for as long as there's been things around capable of doing it.

Homosexual behavior has been shown to exist in just about every species studied. One study found that around 14% of the gulls in san francisco were lesbians. I wonder about their funding request...

Further, sexual preferance has not been shown to have any impact on any of one's skills, talents, capabilities, etc. Whether one loves men, woman, both, neither or treestumps, has no particular effect on one's abilities in regards to, say, strategy, leadership, combat etc. The only thing that keeps these people from openly getting up there these days, is that it's been demonized for the last couple millenia in western society. Quite literally, until recently.
Agdar
28-11-2004, 09:52
No, I heard about it on Fox News, they asked some expert guy on the movie Alexander's Historical accuracy, and the issue of him being bisexual came up and he said that that was actually true. Then I watched a programm on the Discovery Channel the same day, like 2 hours later, and it said he was too.

Well, if it's on TV, it must be true. Seriously, though, Alexander the Great did certainly have sex with both men and women. So did Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, and almost any ancient Greek you can name. It's not historically accurate to think of it as bisexuality in our modern sense or even to think of the ancient Greeks as being divided into sexual orientations. It was the general social rule that young men had a sexual relationship with their teachers. This was considered part of education and was taken for granted. When they became older, they would have sex with young men that they taught. Nonetheless, they would also be expected to take wives. The idea of marrying or committing to their male partners would have seemed utterly alien to most of them, with some exceptions. Pausania springs to mind. Homosexual love was considered nobler than heterosexual love for rather sexist reasons. In any event, we're talking about an entirely different way of looking at sexuality. Applying our terms of homosexuality, bisexuality, and heterosexuality won't tell us anything about people's lives as they understood them at the time.
Demented Hamsters
28-11-2004, 09:55
No, I heard about it on Fox News...
Well if it's on Fox, it must be true, then! :)

There is a farily well-known Greek quote (I forget who it's attributed to) from Alexander's era that went along the lines of:
"a woman for children, a man for pleasure."
Which should give you some idea as to how they viewed homosexuality (and woman's rights for that matter).

As an aside, I did a History of Warfare paper a few years ago and I remember reading about a group of elite soldiers ('The Sacred Band of Thebes'), which were made up of Homosexual couples. The thinking was that a man who fighting for himself would be easily defeated; a man fighting for the love and honour of a mate would be that much harder to defeat.

Here's an interesting article about homosexual soldiers in ancient Greece:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1373/is_n11_v44/ai_15901325