NationStates Jolt Archive

Has nobody noticed that the world is looking for a black sheep and has now chosen smokers. Am I the only one who feels that laws against smoking are an attack on my personal freedom? If I want to smoke then let me! It's my body and I can do what i want right? Otherwise this wouldn't be a free country right? peace

Has nobody noticed that the world is looking for a black sheep and has now chosen smokers. Am I the only one who feels that laws against smoking are an attack on my personal freedom? If I want to smoke then let me! It's my body and I can do what i want right? Otherwise this wouldn't be a free country right? peace

This belongs in General.

Yes, while were at it we can let people buy biological weapons, get rid of those old food-industry standards and disband our military!

It's to do with the fact that not only does smoking serious affect your health, it also harms/kills an alarmingly high amount of non-smokers who breath in the fumes.....

It's my body and I can do what i want right? Yes, but I reek as a result of going to a kids party where some of the parents were smoking. After a shower and washing my hair (what's left of it) I got rid of the stench, but I'd forgotten just how bad it smells.
If you want to kipper yourself and smell like a week-old ashtray that's fine, but please do it away from me.

I have the decency to leave the room if I feel a massive fart coming, after all.

Huh. You know what? Automobile and industry emissions - like cigarette smoke - ALSO have deleterious effects on non-users. Only more so. Much more so!

You people attacking smokers for harming your precious, pure lungs are living in denial if you think thats a worthy battle in comparison to the mess of air pollution. But of course... all that is a harder battle... too much work... it is much easier to spank a child for peeing in the ocean than halt or prevent, say, the oil spills.

As long as I can, I smoke my cigarettes and gladly exhale - yes, burning material that could cause cancer, I am exhaling it INTO the atmosphere! - and enjoy the looks of indignation I get from those who think their lungs don't char. The kinds of people who could be walking, on a public street, not one foot away from thousands of cubic meters of carbon-containing, cancer-causing clouds of chemicals, and look at some guy smoking one cigarette and worry about their lungs THEN.

The thing is they don't care about their lungs or air pollution, they care about making sure the non-conformists hurry up and conform. Nazis.

Life is short. Then you die. Stop blaming other people for the fact that you've developed, at government's request, a near pathological obsession for the safety of your lungs.

I have the decency to leave the room if I feel a massive fart coming, after all.
You can feel it when someone is about to do a massive fart?

Huh. You know what? Automobile and industry emissions - like cigarette smoke - ALSO have deleterious effects on non-users. Only more so. Much more so!

You people attacking smokers for harming your precious, pure lungs are living in denial if you think thats a worthy battle in comparison to the mess of air pollution. But of course... all that is a harder battle... too much work... it is much easier to spank a child for peeing in the ocean than halt or prevent, say, the oil spills.

As long as I can, I smoke my cigarettes and gladly exhale - yes, burning material that could cause cancer, I am exhaling it INTO the atmosphere! - and enjoy the looks of indignation I get from those who think their lungs don't char. The kinds of people who could be walking, on a public street, not one foot away from thousands of cubic meters of carbon-containing, cancer-causing clouds of chemicals, and look at some guy smoking one cigarette and worry about their lungs THEN.

The thing is they don't care about their lungs or air pollution, they care about making sure the non-conformists hurry up and conform. Nazis.

Life is short. Then you die. Stop blaming other people for the fact that you've developed, at government's request, a near pathological obsession for the safety of your lungs.
What you say is partially true, but y'know what? Smoking also negatively effects the environment. One smoker has no measurable effect, but the number we have in the world definitely does. And have you considered what else is contained in what you smoke? I can't remember most of it off the top of my head, but it includes cyanide, the chemicals used in tanning leather, and sundry other poisons and harmful substances. That's right, you are tanning you lungs when you smoke. Not to mention the fact that second-hand smoke tans other people's lungs. And that it is an addictive substance. That really is the worst part of it all, you start relying on it more and more, and you need to absord more and more. Occasional smoking really isn't that bad.

Sure, we need to start be much more concerned with other forms of air pollution, but does that make the lesser form of smoking right?

Huh. You know what? Automobile and industry emissions - like cigarette smoke - ALSO have deleterious effects on non-users. Only more so. Much more so!
Yes, but cigarettes arent an essential part of our culture and economy. If the internal combustion engine and its offspring were to be removed...well, it would be bad. If cigs are removed, a few people suffer, but in the long run FEWER people die.
Of course, if you absolutly HAVE to smoke, do it in your house, your car, your whatever. Dont stand right next to the entrance to Safeway and smoke, giving those of who already have asthma more problems.

the dangers of casual second hand smoke are way overstated. (meaning the kind of exposure you get at a restaurant or walking down the street, not the kind of exposure you get by living with a 4 pack a day smoker, which is also overstated)

smoking is stupid not evil.

lots of people do lots of stupid things, i see no reason to single out smoking. obviously people LOVE to smoke and who am i to deny them their pleasures in life?

Yes, but cigarettes arent an essential part of our culture and economy. If the internal combustion engine and its offspring were to be removed...well, it would be bad. If cigs are removed, a few people suffer, but in the long run FEWER people die.

Right. And there you have the justification for oppression of the rights of the few. Didn't Hitler make the same kinds of arguments in favor of killing retarded and disabled people? In the long run, humanity's genes are stronger... sure a few people suffer... I'm not calling you Hitler, just pointing how similar the argument is.


Of course, if you absolutly HAVE to smoke, do it in your house, your car, your whatever. Dont stand right next to the entrance to Safeway and smoke, giving those of who already have asthma more problems.

Actually, I'll do it wherever I please, and people who are so afraid of asthma will have to avoid me. Lucky, I'll be easy to spot - the cigarette burning should be a giveaway - whereas people with pristine pure lungs that need to be preserved for museums, are not easy to spot or avoid. Why should I have to move away just because they won't?

What you say is partially true, but y'know what? Smoking also negatively effects the environment. One smoker has no measurable effect, but the number we have in the world definitely does.

Really? What's the measured effect? How many people in the world smoke, how much, per day? In comparison to how many cars that pollute, factories, and of course tanners. I think you'll find you are comparing a gnat with an elephant.

Not to mention the fact that second-hand smoke tans other people's lungs. And that it is an addictive substance.

Yeah? Know anyone that got addicted to cigarettes via second hand smoke? I don't, but these days I'm never surprised that nonsmokers apparently know more smokers than smokers do. I bet there are tons. And they all pollute just as much as cars do. So let's just crack down on anyone with a cigarette and live in total denial about the cars we drove to said crackdown.

Has nobody noticed that the world is looking for a black sheep and has now chosen smokers. Am I the only one who feels that laws against smoking are an attack on my personal freedom? If I want to smoke then let me! It's my body and I can do what i want right? Otherwise this wouldn't be a free country right? peace

Smoking gives cancer to the lungs, and for this reason you shouldnt smoke it around people who arent smokers(if you want to smoke then do it at your home or go to a place where your away from non-smokers)

Smokers are the new hobgoblins.

PS- The SHS link has never been proven. See the WHO report on it.

Right. And there you have the justification for oppression of the rights of the few. Didn't Hitler make the same kinds of arguments in favor of killing retarded and disabled people? In the long run, humanity's genes are stronger... sure a few people suffer... I'm not calling you Hitler, just pointing how similar the argument is.
Yes, I plan to round up all the smokers and imprison them in Wyoming detention camps.
Taking a persons cigarettes wont kill them, they can easily get hold of nicotine gum, patches, whatever. Eventually, they lose their addiction, and INCREASE their lifespan because they arent, infact, ingesting poison on a regular basis anymore.

Actually, I'll do it wherever I please, and people who are so afraid of asthma will have to avoid me. Lucky, I'll be easy to spot - the cigarette burning should be a giveaway - whereas people with pristine pure lungs that need to be preserved for museums, are not easy to spot or avoid. Why should I have to move away just because they won't?
I was refering to the habit of some smokers of hanging around next to store entrances and other spots where you cant avoid them if you want to go somewhere. What gives YOU the right to deprive me of my right to breathe?

Whats wrong with smoking? It brings large amounts of money into the government and controles the population level. I have to agree i dont want to get lung cancer because somone else wants to trade some of their life span for a small high but in the end it does have its plus sides as i noted.

Smoking gives cancer to the lungs, and for this reason you shouldnt smoke it around people who arent smokers(if you want to smoke then do it at your home or go to a place where your away from non-smokers)

I agree. If you're going to smoke, then please smoke it in a smoking zone or in privacy. Second-hand smoking is dangerous, and what's worse is is it wasn't their fault. They got addicted against their own will. As for walking beside thousands of cubic meters of carbon-containing, cancer-causing clouds of chemicals, then they're just being stupid and then its their fault. I'm not going to tell you that smoking is bad and you shouldn't do it, because it is your own free will. Just don't force other people into it if they don't want to, y'know?

no one should go around snuffing out other people's cirgaretts. no one should steal other people's cars. smoking and car fumes are both bad. people are working on ways to diminish car fumes. i (non-smoker) don't care. if you want to smoke, have fun. i'll avoid you. it's my fault if i go into a bar and there are people smoking and i don't leave. but it's your fault if you spew the smoke in my face or in my house. it's just impolite. and i do know someone (a cousin) who died because her mom smoked. my cousin was a little kid. she couldn't ask her mom to leave or know enough to leave the room herself. granted, not all smokers kill small children. but there still is that possibility. so just keep the smoke out of my face and out of my house. then we're square.

Huh. You know what? Automobile and industry emissions - like cigarette smoke - ALSO have deleterious effects on non-users. Only more so. Much more so!

The main (not the only, but in theory, the main) gas emitted from an automobile is Carbon Dioxide.

Every human being on Earth is constantly pumping out Carbon Dioxide.

So should we stop people breathing? I mean, it is clearly more harmful than you smokers pumping out your toxic fumes...

Has nobody noticed that the world is looking for a black sheep and has now chosen smokers. Am I the only one who feels that laws against smoking are an attack on my personal freedom? If I want to smoke then let me! It's my body and I can do what i want right? Otherwise this wouldn't be a free country right? peace

I agree. smoking is dangerous, and, er, somewhat stupid, not counting the fact that it disturb others, but it has nothing to do with good or evil. I find all this moralist speech in the media extraordinarily obnoxious and out of place.

(Time Smoke-Free: 269 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes and 12 seconds

Cigarettes NOT smoked: 9424 )

Actually, I'll do it wherever I please, and people who are so afraid of asthma will have to avoid me.
You are, of course, aware that there are people who have asthma. They have to avoid smoke, or they might have an asthmatic attack. They aren't afraid of it, they have it and recognise it as a clear and present danger.

Y'no what I don't get? why people are allowed to commit suicide slowly over a long period of time through smoking, when at the same time, people who have an extremely painful terminal illness are not allowed to die quickly and humanely instead of suffereing.
I'm not saying smoking should be banned, i'm not trying to turn this debate into one about euthanasia. i'm just pointing out something which doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Really? What's the measured effect? How many people in the world smoke, how much, per day? In comparison to how many cars that pollute, factories, and of course tanners. I think you'll find you are comparing a gnat with an elephant.

Having done some quick research, it seems 60,000 American people die of passive smoking each year. That's 60,000 non-smokers killed because the people around them smoke. In comparison, fine particle pollution in responsible for 30,000 American deaths. That's half the number. In total, air pollution causes 50-100,000 American deaths. That's not even twice the passive smoker death count.

And for those who were wondering, around 500,000 die of smoking (as in, are smokers themselves). That's 30% of all cancer deaths.

I smoke two joints in the morning
I smoke two joints at night,
I smoke two joints in the afternoon
and it makes me feel alright
smoke two joints in time of peace
into the time of war
smoke two joints before i smoke two joints
and then i smoke some more

yeah thats what i do, hey

mama she always told me son you really have it bad
mama she always told me son you do the best you can
then one day i met a man she came to me and said
i work good and i work fine but first take care of him

i smoke two joints in the morning
i smoke two joints at night
i smoke two joints in the video game
and it mkes me feel alright
i smoke two joints in the time of peace
into the time of war
smoke two joints before i smoke two joints
and then i smoke some more

smoking isn't evil.

some rules for smoking are okay, like not in restaurants. otherwise in an open area I don't see a problem.

If you're going to smoke, then please smoke it in a smoking zone or in privacy. Second-hand smoking is dangerous, and what's worse is is it wasn't their fault. They got addicted against their own will. As for walking beside thousands of cubic meters of carbon-containing, cancer-causing clouds of chemicals, then they're just being stupid and then its their fault.

Er... I'm not sure how that works. Going near cars that cause cancer is stupid and your own fault, but going near people obviously smoking cigarettes which cause cancer, isn't?

So should we stop people breathing? I mean, it is clearly more harmful than you smokers pumping out your toxic fumes...

Nope. Actually, I'm not in favor of limiting anyone's personal rights merely on the basis of some 'official' source declaring it 'unsafe.' Sources like the government.... you know, Agent Orange, Hiroshima bomb, CIA nonconsentual drug testing.... THAT government. The one that obviously knows what is and isn't safe and has everyone's safety at heart.

I'm not in favor of cracking down on car pollution... though I do favor a switch to hydrogen if possible. More efficient.

I'm not in favor of banning cigarettes... though I do hope people who smoke cigarettes against their will can stop. Me, I take responsibility, it's my will and I'm not a "victim" of "addiction" with no control to stop.

if you want to smoke, have fun. i'll avoid you. it's my fault if i go into a bar and there are people smoking and i don't leave. but it's your fault if you spew the smoke in my face or in my house. it's just impolite

Agreed.

Similarly with drunk people and vomiting!

I don't go find nonsmokers houses and then start puffing away in their living room. The way you hear it from a lot of diehard antismokers though, thats exactly what I do...

Yes, I plan to round up all the smokers and imprison them in Wyoming detention camps.
Taking a persons cigarettes wont kill them, they can easily get hold of nicotine gum, patches, whatever. Eventually, they lose their addiction, and INCREASE their lifespan because they arent, infact, ingesting poison on a regular basis anymore.

Why not? Look, if the government punished smokers the same way it punishes drug users and dealers and producers and suspects, you might as WELL be imprisoning them in detention camps. Prison sentences are prison sentences. Of course, that hasn't happened yet... but for the grace of God and the Pure of Lung....

And it's nice you care about increasing people's lifespans. I don't. This country has too many old people who do nothing but soak up pensions and tax dollars and who cannot contribute anything more. So, i don't see having more such people as an automatically good thing to have - a difference of value. You value old healthy people. I value young, productive people.

I was refering to the habit of some smokers of hanging around next to store entrances and other spots where you cant avoid them if you want to go somewhere. What gives YOU the right to deprive me of my right to breathe?

Nice try. You can't avoid someone at a store entrance? It's already illegal to do that in this state, so you can always just call your local cop to forcefully remove the infested subhumanoid. ;) Or complain to management. Or go somewhere else. Or be a brave little soldier and hold your breath for a few seconds.

Right to breathe? What makes you unable to breathe, exactly? I'm smoking, I can breathe just fine.

People should stop worrying so much, and they should stop blaming smokers for their own worry. If you didn't worry about lung cancer, you would have less stress and hey, maybe even live longer. Whereas if you do worry about lung cancer, nothing happens - except worry and stress. The lung cancer will come whether you worry about it or now, whether you blame others or not, because if you breathe air in this country you have a chance of getting lung cancer. And it's not because of the damn smokers.

I don't think smoking is evil. Stupid, maybe, but not evil. If you want to light up, go right ahead. But it makes me angry to live in the same house as a couple of smokers and have people ask me if I smoke because my clothes and hair smell like it. I have no choice in the matter of what I smell like and what's in the air I breathe as I type this. I can't stand that.

if smokers want to smoke they can do it in there homes. It may come as a surprise to some smokers but not every one want to be poisoned while they enjoy a pint in their local. Smoking should be banned in public places.
To put it simpaly keep your smoke to yourself just cos u dont care for your body dosent mean other people dont care for theirs

if smokers want to smoke they can do it in there homes. It may come as a surprise to some smokers but not every one want to be poisoned while they enjoy a pint in their local. Smoking should be banned in public places

I totally agree, is it so hard to go outside to smoke?

My province recently enacted a smoking ban in public places. It's never been better.

A lot of smokers insist that it's not that bad a pollutant, and that people are too worried about their precious lungs. Well, aside from the fact that one SHOULD be concerned with personal well being, the stuff just plain stinks. Would you like it if someone walked up to you and cracked a nice big fart in your face? In fact, next time someone deigns to smoke in my presence, I'll do just that.

You are, of course, aware that there are people who have asthma. They have to avoid smoke, or they might have an asthmatic attack. They aren't afraid of it, they have it and recognise it as a clear and present danger.

Yeah. So they avoid smoke. And?

Or is that too much of an inconvience...

Having done some quick research, it seems 60,000 American people die of passive smoking each year. That's 60,000 non-smokers killed because the people around them smoke. In comparison, fine particle pollution in responsible for 30,000 American deaths. That's half the number. In total, air pollution causes 50-100,000 American deaths. That's not even twice the passive smoker death count.

And for those who were wondering, around 500,000 die of smoking (as in, are smokers themselves). That's 30% of all cancer deaths.

Source?

Anyway, I hardly imagine some kind of statistic generated about people "dead of passive smoking" is very reliable, regardless of source. Like, "passive smoking" is what the coroner wrote on the cause of death line? No. They wrote cancer, and someone somewhere interpreted the results - with 100% honesty, I'm sure - and came to the conclusion that 'passive smoking' was the definite cause.

Also, I have another statistic - it may be shocking, its implications may seem cruel and heartless, but its my hope it will bring some perspective, adapted from the great cigarette drama, Braveheart -

100% of people die. Only 30% of us really live!

Or okay, how about deaths due to heart failure? I could associate them all with increased stress, because there are plenty of reports that do so. They outnumber those you've mentioned. And what causes stress? Worry and blame, that's right. So while I may be one of 500,000 who dies eventually to cancer, you would be one of 700,000 who dies because of worrying about dying. Which one of us is more evil? Neither. How about deaths due to car accidents - should we tell those with cars, to drive in the comfort and privacy of their own homes - you know, to avoid people with asthma, or people who (rightfully) see cars as massive instruments of death?

Meanwhile, only roughly 3,000 died in one year to terrorist attack, and yet thats apparently the government and nation's main priority, main threat. Go figure.

What you say is partially true, but y'know what? Smoking also negatively effects the environment. One smoker has no measurable effect, but the number we have in the world definitely does. And have you considered what else is contained in what you smoke? I can't remember most of it off the top of my head, but it includes cyanide, the chemicals used in tanning leather, and sundry other poisons and harmful substances. That's right, you are tanning you lungs when you smoke. Not to mention the fact that second-hand smoke tans other people's lungs. And that it is an addictive substance. That really is the worst part of it all, you start relying on it more and more, and you need to absord more and more. Occasional smoking really isn't that bad.

Sure, we need to start be much more concerned with other forms of air pollution, but does that make the lesser form of smoking right?

Do you occasionally use your car??

if smokers want to smoke they can do it in there homes. It may come as a surprise to some smokers but not every one want to be poisoned while they enjoy a pint in their local. Smoking should be banned in public places.
To put it simpaly keep your smoke to yourself just cos u dont care for your body dosent mean other people dont care for theirs
I totally agree, is it so hard to go outside to smoke?

You are still in a public place.

Y'no what I don't get? why people are allowed to commit suicide slowly over a long period of time through smoking, when at the same time, people who have an extremely painful terminal illness are not allowed to die quickly and humanely instead of suffereing.
I'm not saying smoking should be banned, i'm not trying to turn this debate into one about euthanasia. i'm just pointing out something which doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Any and everything you consume will kill you....the very act of living causes death......

it includes cyanide,
As well as arsenic and a few other poisons. But not the lethal dosages.

I mean, I have never heard of a smoker dying of cyanide[/arsenic] poison via fags .

So really, you have made a pointless point

QUOTE=Santa Barbara]Yeah. So they avoid smoke. And?

Or is that too much of an inconvience...

Yeah it is an inconvience. You may find it fun destroyin your lungs but ours are already damged and smokers just make it even worse for us, and because of the amount of people smoking you soon get bored of walking in the road because the streets are narrow.
As i said before smoke in your home and kill yourself in private.

Well, i gotta go for now.

One final thought: I don't care what anyone says. Sorry. :(

QUOTE=Santa Barbara]Yeah. So they avoid smoke. And?

Or is that too much of an inconvience...

Yeah it is an inconvience. You may find it fun destroyin your lungs but ours are already damged and smokers just make it even worse for us, and because of the amount of people smoking you soon get bored of walking in the road because the streets are narrow.
As i said before smoke in your home and kill yourself in private.
Do you have any proof that the mear whiff of cigerette smoke irreversably damages your lungs?

Having done some quick research, it seems 60,000 American people die of passive smoking each year. That's 60,000 non-smokers killed because the people around them smoke. In comparison, fine particle pollution in responsible for 30,000 American deaths. That's half the number. In total, air pollution causes 50-100,000 American deaths. That's not even twice the passive smoker death count.

And for those who were wondering, around 500,000 die of smoking (as in, are smokers themselves). That's 30% of all cancer deaths.
50-100,00....or 100,000 -200,000...know one knows the truth...it's all guess work.....

Why are you people so intollerant? You make it sound like smoking is the dubmest thing that humans ever did, well might I remind you that you elected bush? the guy been destroying peoples LIVES for the whole time he's been president! So before you go complaining about people like us go clean your own act up! i doubt you're perfect! peace

50-100,00....or 100,000 -200,000...know one knows the truth...it's all guess work.....
Whatever the number is, it's too big. Here's another: $60Billion spent on healthcare because of smoking-related ilnesses

That was a good one...lol

Uhm. Am I the only smoker who actuallt FOR a smoking ban in restaurants etc?
And am I the only smoker who is somewhat polite?
I mean, if I'm waiting for the bus, I dont smoke, standing in line. I back away a few steps. (especially if there's a pregnant woman, or a child standing in line)
I dont smoke just outside entrances. I try to avoid smoking near schools and kindergartens.

I mean. smoking is dangerous, and it is stupid. (but it tastes damn good! -L-), why do i have to 'force' other people to inhale my smoke?

And it's not just the carbon monoxide thats dangerous. There are over a hundred other poisonous chemicals in a cigarette, that will kill ya too!

Face it. Smoking is bad! Not only for you, but for the ones next to you too!
Oh. And don't throw the cig butts on the streets. There are waste bins. Use them!

QUOTE=Alomogordo]Whatever the number is, it's too big. Here's another: $60Billion spent on healthcare because of smoking-related ilnesses[/QUOTE]

That IS a problem! but, unfortunately, not entirely correct. Coz when a smoker comes to a hospital with almost any illness, the doc will say it's smoke related! (wouldn't surprise me that much, if I broke my leg, and the doc said it was coz I'm smoking! -s- )

its not the meer wiff its when its smoker after smoker that it starts becoming a problem and when the irreverseable damage occurs

Whatever the number is, it's too big. Here's another: $60Billion spent on healthcare because of smoking-related ilnesses
*coughsmokingistaxedandtheamountofrevenueraisedbytobaccoandtheshorterlifeexpectancyofsmokersresultsi nnetgainforthestatecough*

Sorry. Must be my smoker cough

its not the meer wiff its when its smoker after smoker that it starts becoming a problem and when the irreverseable damage occurs
Don't go to places where a lot of smokers frequent

Thats the problem smokers are everywhere so its hard to find anywhere to go without smokers polluting the air

Whatever the number is, it's too big. Here's another: $60Billion spent on healthcare because of smoking-related ilnesses
How about obesity?? With that comes high blood pressure....heart problems??..Far more $$$ with that!!!! Should we go after all the fat people???

How about obesity?? With that comes high blood pressure....heart problems??..Far more $$$ with that!!!! Should we go after all the fat people???

Yes! Put a tax on foods with a lot of fat in it, and fast food. And reduce the taxfor healthy food (thas what they gonna do here, and we don't even have half the problem the U.S got) )

yeah we should they block up buss's trains and narrow paths

Should we go after all the fat people???
Eventually, maybe we could compromise and fuck over fat smokers?
Although come to think of it if the fat bastards would smoke more they wouldnt eat as much and wouldnt be as fat.

no one has the problem of the u.s

yeah we should they block up buss's trains and narrow paths
They also stink just as bad as smokers.

Thats the problem smokers are everywhere so its hard to find anywhere to go without smokers polluting the air
Take your blinkers off. There are plenty of places where smokers aren't allowed to smoke.

I hate smoking because it smells horrible. I don't need any other reasons for not liking smoking because it's personal preference.

Why dont you. have you tried walking down a street to get to a non smoking place?? And then you just get the smokers outsideso you when you got out to sobar up you get a nice waft of smoke in your face

I hate smoking because it smells horrible. I don't need any other reasons for not liking smoking because it's personal preference.
you are right!! But I am sure some things you do upset other people also..does that make you a bad person?

Why dont you. have you tried walking down a street to get to a non smoking place?? And then you just get the smokers outsideso you when you got out to sobar up you get a nice waft of smoke in your face
I bet you use the bathroom in a bar....hmmmm do they smell good???

Why dont you. have you tried walking down a street to get to a non smoking place??

Yep. I do at least once a week. I walk to Tescos. Real easy to do. (Except for the blind corner on the way back, but I digress)

And then you just get the smokers outsideso you when you got out to sobar up you get a nice waft of smoke in your face
Well, you could try not drinking as much or even [hold your breath, this may seem radical], move away from the smokers. :eek:

I haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if I repeat anything someone's already said. I'm not a smoker myself, but smoking in public is still legal here (for the time being anyway). To be honest with you, when I was in Dublin and California recently, I noticed less 'craic' - fun atmosphere, I suppose you could define that as - in their non-smoking bars. Not to denigrate the bars or the people from those places, of course...just something I observed differing from the UK.

Certainly, smoking is a pretty daft idea, but not only are smokers addicted to nicotine, they're entitled to do something that they enjoy even if it harms their health. Not very clever, but not a decision for anyone else to make. If smoking is something people seriously object to, they can go to non-smoking places/areas or just move. Of course, so can the smoker. Difficult one, but personally I probably side with the right to personal freedom.

you are right!! But I am sure some things you do upset other people also..does that make you a bad person? Not once did I say that it makes them a bad person. Read my post again and I did not even imply it.

I hate smoking, but not the smokers.

Not once did I say that it makes them a bad person. Read my post again and I did not even imply it.

I hate smoking, but not the smokers.
Sorry wrong quote...forgive me Max....

because even the nazis thougt smoking was evil
and if the NAZIS think something is evil then its really bad :eek:

because even the nazis thougt smoking was evil
and if the NAZIS think something is evil then its really bad :eek:
Like the Jews.

And yes, I realise you aren't being serious

Sorry wrong quote...forgive me Max.... Eh. No problem.

because even the nazis thougt smoking was evil
and if the NAZIS think something is evil then its really bad :eek:

Hmmm......(another deep thinker...) Think for your self it's not that hard..and what a group you picked to quote...sorry...going back to using ahimsa

Alright, now for my two cents!

1) I don't think anyone denies that smoking is harmful to the person who does it, and harmful (to what extent is not entirely known) to people exposed to second hand smoke.

Smokers say: It's my choice!
Non-smokers say: Fine, but don't expose me to it!

Rebuttal: the issue is much wider than one of personal choice. Here are some things that also need to be taken into account:

a) The tobacco industry LIED about the dangers associated with smoking, and did as much as they could to keep this information from coming to light. After Merrel Williams (formerly of Brown & Williamson tobacco company in Louisville, Kentucky) became the first whistle blower, the industry was forced to admit it had been lying since the 60s about the addictive nature of cigarettes.

"Senior executives of seven tobacco companies raised their right hands and swore in front of a US congressional subcommittee as late as 1994 that they did not believe nicotine was addictive. This was despite research going back at least 30 years that it was as addictive as many a ‘Class A’ drug; it is certainly deadlier than heroin or cocaine in the same concentrations." 2 Tara Parker-Pope, Cigarettes, The New Press, New York, 2001.

What this means is that this industry has been pushing a substance they KNOW to be dangerous and addictive. Addiction takes away personal choice and makes use a physiological imperative. Now, because of tobacco restrictions in the developed world, these companies are going oversees for newer, and more open markets. An incredibly amount of money is spent on marketing, and making smoking 'look good'. This is done because cigarettes are a product that will guarantee customer loyalty through addiction. In the U.S:
• With smoking rates falling and restrictions on advertising, cigarette marketing in the US has gone into overdrive – annually $200 is spent per smoker, over 46 cents per pack sold.
• US tobacco companies spend over $32 million a year to lobby politicians and political parties. The Tobacco Atlas by Judith Mackay and Michael Eriksen, 2002, WHO, Geneva
It's not just about personal choice. It's about an industry so driven by greed, that they will willingly create a toxic and addictive product in order to make a profit. So you go ahead and support that in the name of free choice.

b) Growing tobacco is a problem too.
Many people in the developing world are encouraged to grow tobacco as a 'cash' crop. Growing tobacco instead of food means these people are no longer self-reliant. And the pay off? Deforestation to provide fields for tobacco growth, health problems from touching the toxic leaves (tobacco growing is chemically intensive, but most growers can't afford protective gear, though the pesticides themselves are 'loaned' to farmers at usurious rates of interest. As well, nicotine absorbed through the skin from contact with leaves has serious health consequences.), financial ruin if there is a bad crop, water pollution from pesticide run off, and general financial instability. For the companies, however, it means over $400 billion in profits each year.
If you want to read more about any of this, please check out: http://www.newint.org/, go to back issues, and choose issue 369. It's full of information, well backed up by reliable sources.

I know very few smokers who want to be hooked...who DON'T want to quit, who don't care it's hurting them, and may deprive their loved ones of their presence. If you are one of the few who do feel that way, I suppose it is no different than an alcoholic who chooses to destroy their health with drink. Giving in to an addiction and then promoting it as 'free choice' is ridiculous. If cigarettes weren't addictive, and you still choice to smoke them, THAT would be 'free choice'.

My husband has smoked for 20 years (since he was 11). The recent restrictions on smoking in ANY public place (including workplaces such as bars and clubs) hasn't angered him...it's helped him to curb his habit. Curb it, not kick it. That's something he's going to have to do himself. When Ireland went completely smoke free, people expected riots. Not a peep. It's done quite well. No one is saying you can't indulge your addiction in private, or outside a workplace. It's still legal (unlike most drug use outside of alcohol and caffeine). You haven't lost your rights...you just no longer get to interfere with the rights of others. Rail against it all you want. In then end, you will still be relegated to huddling outside in the cold, smoking your cigarette.

My mum smokes.
Every day I come home from school and my house stinks.
When I take my clothes up to my room after they've been washed, they smell worse than when I put them in.
If I want to sit in my kitchen, then I have to resign myself to a conversation conducted in a specially devised morse-code of hack-coughs.
Every morning I am woken up to the sound of my mother trying to eject her own lungs from her body, and I've never been able to withstand her smell long enough to hug her properly.

Even worse is the knowledge that what she is doing is endangering her life. I know it's endangering mine and, to a certain extent, I can walk away from the worst of it. I don't like to, but I can.
But her?
She doesn't have the will-power. She's tried to quit too many times to see it as something serious now.

I try to empathise with her, but it's pretty hard.
I gave up meat. Not for my health or for the health of those around me, but simply for my principles.
My dad gave up smoking when I was born. He realised that growning up in a world such as this one is bad enough without the added complication of your parents deliberately deducting time from their lives as well as yours.
Hell, even my best friend managed to kick the nicotine bucket, and he was only six at the time! (Long story involving an inquisitive child and several packets of nicotine gum)

Anyway, in my veiw people who smoke aren't evil. They are weak, delusional and pathetic individuals, but they are not evil.
Smoking should be banned in order to help people like my mother give up and protect themselves and those around them.
However, nicotine should be widely avaliable in order to ive these junkies a safe and legal alternative to feeding their habit.

Please also visit this site: http://tobacco.aadac.com/media_campaigns/barb_tarbox/

It was set up in memory of a woman in my province of Alberta, Canada who died of lung cancer caused by smoking. As she was dying of the cancer than spread to every part of her body, she conducted an information campaign in schools around the province, sharing her story. Try to be sanguine about smoking when you've spoken with someone who knew she was going to leave everyone she love behind, just because she didn't know the dangers when she started, and wasn't strong enough to quit when that information finally did come out.

It isn't evil, it's just bad for you.

2nd hand smoke dangers are overrated. To be harmed by that, you need to be exposed to it on a daily basis (like smokers are).

lets face it if we really did go for an all out ban on smoking (in the uk at least) the economy would be damaged severely and we'd just ve handing over more trade to organised crime

http://www.davehitt.com/facts/

It isn't evil, it's just bad for you.

2nd hand smoke dangers are overrated. To be harmed by that, you need to be exposed to it on a daily basis (like smokers are).

Or like non-smokers working in a bar. Or a restaurant. Or a pool hall. Or anywhere where people smoke.

http://www.davehitt.com/facts/
This is pathetic. Why not write THE TRUTH about heroin use, and how it's REALLY NOT THAT BAD.

lets face it if we really did go for an all out ban on smoking (in the uk at least) the economy would be damaged severely and we'd just ve handing over more trade to organised crime
Oh you mean like how Ireland's economy collapsed? Oh wait, IT DIDN'T. Do you really think a country's economy is fuelled by smoking? That countries NEED smokers to smoke?

This is pathetic. Why not write THE TRUTH about heroin use, and how it's REALLY NOT THAT BAD.

Ummm...great reply...umm...I think. WAIT!!!! Your fact-laden rebuttal has convinced me! You're so right. You've taught me sooo much! :rolleyes:

You probably think that masturbation makes your hands furry or causes blindness despite evidence to the contrary.

Or like non-smokers working in a bar. Or a restaurant. Or a pool hall. Or anywhere where people smoke.
They choose to work there.

Why is smoking evil?

No reason, really. I mean, it's not like it's bad for you or...ach...

*dies of cancer*