NationStates Jolt Archive

So, what did you think about it, the new bills I mean. Personally I think it's more of a step towards a more authoritarian state. I mean do we NEED ID cards.

Your comments please.

i have no problem with ID cards. If you've got nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about if they're given out...

i have no problem with ID cards. If you've got nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about if they're given out...
1) they'd cost to make
2) i'd lose mine.
3) I don't want everyone to know everything about me, especcially not the state. (Not that I'm a crinimal or anything.)

1) they'd cost to make
2) i'd lose mine.
3) I don't want everyone to know everything about me, especcially not the state. (Not that I'm a crinimal or anything.)

i spose the cost thing is an issue...
in many European countries they don't take DNA or whatever but the cards do have your address and contact details on it, whereas what is proposed wouldn't...don't you think that's worse?

1) they'd cost to make
2) i'd lose mine.
3) I don't want everyone to know everything about me, especcially not the state. (Not that I'm a crinimal or anything.)

I totally agree with the above points. What a waste of money !

I totally agree with the above points. What a waste of money !

but would you agree with it in theory, if cost weren't an issue?

i have no problem with ID cards. If you've got nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about if they're given out...
Would you kindly take down you curtains sir. They help prevent domestic violence. If you don't beat your spouse you have nothing to hide right?

How about cameras in your house? After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have to fear.

all i said was that i have nothing against them...i really don't know if they would lower crime, but what is wrong with having an easy form of ID on you (that is definately not fake)?
and from your comments would i be correct in thinking you're against CCTV in the streets...
your argument is taken to an extreme level

all i said was that i have nothing against them...i really don't know if they would lower crime, but if what is wrong with having an easy form of ID on you (that is definately not fake)?
An individual should not have to justify his/her existence to the state. We already have valid forms of ID. And making it compulsory to have ID on you at all times will only create more 'criminals' rather then combat crime.

Also, these new ID cards won't be the hardest things to fake.

An individual should not have to justify his/her existence to the state. We already have valid forms of ID. And making it compulsory to have ID on you at all times will only create more 'criminals' rather then combat crime.

Also, these new ID cards won't be the hardest things to fake.


they should need to justify they're existance to the state if they're wanting to qualify for benefits etc

Apparently they're planning to charge people for them too.

they should need to justify they're existance to the state if they're wanting to qualify for benefits etc
At last, someone sees the point!

Apparently they're planning to charge people for them too.

hmmm...that's not too good, but we'd get charged for them either way through taxes

So, what did you think about it, the new bills I mean. Personally I think it's more of a step towards a more authoritarian state. I mean do we NEED ID cards.

Your comments please.

You can be arrested and imprisoned without trial simply for being suspected of being involved with terrorism.

You can also be tried and imprisoned without a jury.

Phone tapping is to become a perfectly acceptable Police practice.

This is is what David Blunkett promises us will happen if labour get a third term, like this is great news we should all welcome.

Then there's I.D cards, which are to become compulsory. Alledgedly this will stop illegal immigrants and terrorists roaming freely about the land, but the only way that will work is if we have checkpoints where your documents will be demanded, and if you don't happen to want to carry an I.D card presumably you can fined, or possibly even imprisoned for this offence against society.

"HALT! You haff your papers?"

Yes, sounds pretty much like any Nazi occupied country in any war movie you care to mention.

Under a supposedly socialist Government, Britain is the closest it's ever been to a fascist Police State.

To quote Benjamin Franklin... "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

I would rather run the risk that one day some crackpot will blow me up in a random terrorist attack than spend every day of my life wondering what attack on my liberty I might allow my fears to force me to accept.

We have to be rid of this knee-jerk, ultra right-wing Home Secretary and the party that thinks it's okay to keep him there eroding the rights of this nations citizens.

they should need to justify they're existance to the state if they're wanting to qualify for benefits etc
Which they can do with Drivers licenses, passports, birth certificates etc.

However, they will also be compulsory for people who will never need to qualify for benefits (like me [hopefully]). So why should people like that need one?

You can be arrested and imprisoned without trial simply for being suspected of being involved with terrorism.

You can also be tried and imprisoned without a jury.

Phone tapping is to become a perfectly acceptable Police practice.

Don't forget no access to lawyers or to the evidence that you have been charged with (it is to sensitive you see).

We have to be rid of this knee-jerk, ultra right-wing Home Secretary and the party that thinks it's okay to keep him there eroding the rights of this nations citizens.
Subjects

Which they can do with Drivers licenses, passports, birth certificates etc.

However, they will also be compulsory for people who will never need to qualify for benefits (like me [hopefully]). So why should people like that need one?

because you'll want your pension one day

because you'll want your pension one day
I can look after my own pension. Like many people do.

Also. It seems a bit cheeky of behalf of the state to take money out of our pay check (which goes to our pension). Then makes life as difficult as possible to get it back. They should just stop the whole thing and stop treating us like children who are incapable of looking after our own expenses

I can look after my own pension. Like many people do.

so you won't be wanting your state pension then? however little it is?!

they should need to justify they're existance to the state if they're wanting to qualify for benefits etc

have you heard of a thing called a National Insurance card? Which every one over the age of 16 in the country has?

You might argue that if people have these why are they worried about having an identity card, but you are not required by law to carry your N.I card at all times, which is what a compulsory I.D card would mean.

If you want to be stopped at a Police Checkpoint and be fined, or maybe even arrested because you forgot your wallet with you card in it then you're a lot more tolerant of fascism than I am.

If this happened to me I'd be angry enough to start with, but if I weren't white, if I happened to be asian, or even just slightly foreign looking and I was hauled off for questioning, even though I'd been born, raised and lived my entire life in this country I'd be pretty damned furious.

So, what did you think about it, the new bills I mean. Personally I think it's more of a step towards a more authoritarian state. I mean do we NEED ID cards.

Your comments please.

No, I am a vehement campaigner against ID cards. Join NO2ID if you care about civil liberties.

ID cards did not stop terrorism in New York nor in Spain and yet the government says they will here. Why? No, this is just a scaremongering tactic to get people to vote for them like it worked in the US. This government has a history of it. Only days ago it released apparently true details of a foiled terrorist plot against Canary Wharf. Later police officials stated that the plot was foiled at least two years ago and had never really got anywhere near to being carried out

This is why I hate Tony Blair. Not because of a war against a despotic regime. Not because of higher taxes that are still lower than the rest of Europe. Not because he consistently lies as all politicians do. No I hate Tony Blair because he is setting himself up a dictatorship. ID Cards, inciting race hate laws and attempting to modify the House of Lords so that it is appointed by a council which is accountable to him alone. Kick out Blair!

ID Cards are an abomination to english liberties and if a law is passed making their carrying compulsory, I will become a criminal as I will refuse to have one. Do not let George Orwell be right just 20 years late.

No to a Police State! No to ID CARDS!

have you heard of a thing called a National Insurance card? Which every one over the age of 16 in the country has?

You might argue that if people have these why are they worried about having an identity card, but you are not required by law to carry your N.I card at all times, which is what a compulsory I.D card would mean.

If you want to be stopped at a Police Checkpoint and be fined, or maybe even arrested because you forgot your wallet with you card in it then you're a lot more tolerant of fascism than I am.

If this happened to me I'd be angry enough to start with, but if I weren't white, if I happened to be asian, or even just slightly foreign looking and I was hauled off for questioning, even though I'd been born, raised and lived my entire life in this country I'd be pretty damned furious.

so now you're calling me tolerant of facism? why can no one express an opinion on these threads without getting some insult or other hurled at them, it's bloody rediculous.

Subjects

Yes, I think we need our own Bill of Rights over here, Magna Carta just isn't getting the job done over here.

Quite small considering I'm 20.

well by the time i'm of pensionable age, 65 or 70, i don't know, they're probably won't be a state pension as there'll be so many old people about, that the government can't afford it! that'll be 3 yrs after you by the way!

so you won't be wanting your state pension then? however little it is?!
Of course I do. The state already stole the money , but want us to jump through hoops to get it back. If I could cut a deal with the state where I don't have to get an ID card if I renounce my claim to what is rightfully mine, I would. Of course I would have to get a card saying who I was and why I didn't need a card.

Yes, I think we need our own Bill of Rights over here, Magna Carta just isn't getting the job done over here.
Well, "presumed innocent until proven guilty" has already been thrown out of the window.

well by the time i'm of pensionable age, 65 or 70, i don't know, they're probably won't be a state pension as there'll be so many old people about, that the government can't afford it! that'll be 3 yrs after you by the way!
So the point about pensions becomes moot, since by the time we get to that age it will be meaningless

all i said was that i have nothing against them...i really don't know if they would lower crime, but what is wrong with having an easy form of ID on you (that is definately not fake)?
and from your comments would i be correct in thinking you're against CCTV in the streets...
your argument is taken to an extreme level

I'm against CCTV in the streets. CCTV doesn't stop crimes, it just films them, or moves them somewhere else. By CCTV logic the only way to combat crimes being commited where there aren't cameras is to have cameras EVERYWHERE. Unfortunately, even the dumbest street thug has worked out that if you wear a hooded top the cameras become useless.

An actual real life Policeman on the street is what cuts crime, because even if it's just one man or woman, potential criminals know he has a radio that can bring the noise very, very fast indeed.

By taking Police off the streets our streets have been made less safe. Because our streets became less safe communities started asking for more and more CCTV cameras. Read Big Brother by George Orwell and you might understand the genius of this, they didn't force they cameras on us, they made crime so bad we were stupid enough to ask for them.

No To Id Cards!

I'm against CCTV in the streets. CCTV doesn't stop crimes, it just films them, or moves them somewhere else. By CCTV logic the only way to combat crimes being commited where there aren't cameras is to have cameras EVERYWHERE. Unfortunately, even the dumbest street thug has worked out that if you wear a hooded top the cameras become useless.

An actual real life Policeman on the street is what cuts crime, because even if it's just one man or woman, potential criminals know he has a radio that can bring the noise very, very fast indeed.

By taking Police off the streets our streets have been made less safe. Because our streets became less safe communities started asking for more and more CCTV cameras. Read Big Brother by George Orwell and you might understand the genius of this, they didn't force they cameras on us, they made crime so bad we were stupid enough to ask for them.

Not called big Brother. Tis called 1984.

Of course I do. The state already stole the money , but want us to jump through hoops to get it back. If I could cut a deal with the state where I don't have to get an ID card if I renounce my claim to what is rightfully mine, I would. Of course I would have to get a card saying who I was and why I didn't need a card.

well i hate the forms people have to fill out to get what is rightfully theirs, and here is where the cards would be good. if all the info is held on a central database, then you just have to give your card, they'll get the info from the system, seeing what you're entitled to. Job done, no long forms needed. (that is of course if the government get rid of the forms...they may not cos the forms put people off claiming and so they save money, but i would an advantage nevertheless)

I'm against CCTV in the streets. CCTV doesn't stop crimes, it just films them, or moves them somewhere else. By CCTV logic the only way to combat crimes being commited where there aren't cameras is to have cameras EVERYWHERE. Unfortunately, even the dumbest street thug has worked out that if you wear a hooded top the cameras become useless.


Yes. I agree. We must ban hoodies

so now you're calling me tolerant of facism? why can no one express an opinion on these threads without getting some insult or other hurled at them, it's bloody rediculous.

I can understand that might cause offence, and I do apologise, it is not the same as calling you a fascist I assure you. But some people do seem blind to the potential for abuse we are opening ourselves into in the future.

Even if you trust the Government we have now (Which would put you in a kinoirty I feel), the tools of oppression are all in place, waiting to be abused at any time in the future.

I can understand that might cause offence, and I do apologise, it is not the same as calling you a fascist I assure you. But some people do seem blind to the potential for abuse we are opening ourselves into in the future.

Even if you trust the Government we have now (Which would put you in a kinoirty I feel), the tools of oppression are all in place, waiting to be abused at any time in the future.

i would hate this government to oppress us (or any for that matter, but particularly this one)...maybe i'm just looking to advantages, so please, tell me how they may be abused

well i hate the forms people have to fill out to get what is rightfully theirs, and here is where the cards would be good. if all the info is held on a central database, then you just have to give your card, they'll get the info from the system, seeing what you're entitled to. Job done, no long forms needed. (that is of course if the government get rid of the forms...they may not cos the forms put people off claiming and so they save money, but i would an advantage nevertheless)
How about we cut out the middle man and stop the state stealing it in the first place. Certainly be a lot cheaper

Not called big Brother. Tis called 1984.

AGG! I would forgive myself for making an easy mistake I hadn't read it, and have a copy of the book on the bookshelf nearby.

How about we cut out the middle man and stop the state stealing it in the first place. Certainly be a lot cheaper

it is true. those family credits are bloody stupid, they tax you on them, and you have to claim it back. before i believe they just didn't tax you in the first place. but that wouldn't work for things like pensions. they don't have a pot saying "dont use unti 2040", they pay for today's pensions with todays money. they can't get out of that trend now.

it is true. those family credits are bloody stupid, they tax you on them, and you have to claim it back. before i believe they just didn't tax you in the first place. but that wouldn't work for things like pensions. they don't have a pot saying "dont use unti 2040", they pay for today's pensions with todays money. they can't get out of that trend now.
I know that. But it doesn't justify theft

i have no problem with ID cards. If you've got nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about if they're given out...

i agree, if your a normal, sensible, law-abiding citizen then there's nothing to worry about

Yes. I agree. We must ban hoodies

And Balaclavas! Balaclavas and hoodies mean someone's up to no good, no question about it.

I know that. But it doesn't justify theft

how do you mean theft?

how do you mean theft?
Taking what doesn't belong to you.

i would hate this government to oppress us (or any for that matter, but particularly this one)...maybe i'm just looking to advantages, so please, tell me how they may be abused

The stated purpose of these I.D cards according to Commandant Blunkett is to protect us against terrorists who are in this country illegally, and cut the number of illegal immigrants crawling out of the backs of Scanias. The only way this will work is if the Police have checkpoints. Otherwise it's a fig leaf over the groin of the embarrassingly exposed cock-up that has been this Government's handling of immigration policy.

If I.D cards are compulsory, then NOT having your I.D card on you becomes a crime. If you happen to be non-white, especially if you look middle-eastern then failure to carry an I.D card will be adequate probable cause for questioning.

If you are happy to to be stopped at Police checkpoints to have your I.D checked regularly, that's a matter for you, but I suggest to you that there are many people who won't be happt at all.

As for potential abuses in future, then there are as many as the imagination will conjure. Just for starters, failure to produce you I.D may become a jailable offence, no questions asked. It might sound far fetched, but we don't know what Governments we might have in the future, the BNP are gaining popularity. But, we certainly do know the powers we would be handing to them on a plate because we were scared some foreigner might want to blow us up.

You can be arrested and imprisoned without trial simply for being suspected of being involved with terrorism.

You can also be tried and imprisoned without a jury.

Phone tapping is to become a perfectly acceptable Police practice.

This is is what David Blunkett promises us will happen if labour get a third term, like this is great news we should all welcome.

Then there's I.D cards, which are to become compulsory. Alledgedly this will stop illegal immigrants and terrorists roaming freely about the land, but the only way that will work is if we have checkpoints where your documents will be demanded, and if you don't happen to want to carry an I.D card presumably you can fined, or possibly even imprisoned for this offence against society.

"HALT! You haff your papers?"

Yes, sounds pretty much like any Nazi occupied country in any war movie you care to mention.

Under a supposedly socialist Government, Britain is the closest it's ever been to a fascist Police State.

To quote Benjamin Franklin... "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"

I would rather run the risk that one day some crackpot will blow me up in a random terrorist attack than spend every day of my life wondering what attack on my liberty I might allow my fears to force me to accept.

We have to be rid of this knee-jerk, ultra right-wing Home Secretary and the party that thinks it's okay to keep him there eroding the rights of this nations citizens.

You left-wing soft touches really are out of touch with things. In this modern world people need to be protected from both terrorists and criminals. Those who are suspected of terrorism (and let's be honest - many of those who are suspected do have something to do with terrorism). Left-wing softies would rather see criminals walking our streets instead of imprisoning them - incase it disrupts their 'human rights'. Persoanly, what this country needs is a period of slightly right wing (not that extreme though) to start sorting these problems out.

Taking what doesn't belong to you.

so you're saying the government is taking too much in the way of taxes?

They're going way too far this time, especially with the trial without jury. 9/11 seems to have given politicians around the world a license to go nuts. After 9/11 did millions of people suddenly decide to become terrorists? Or is it more likely that whatever threat there is now is about the same as it was before? Okay, maybe we should have been a bit more careful than we were prior to 9/11, but personally I'd rather take the risk of being bombed than see some of these insanse so-called 'security' measures come into place.

The stated purpose of these I.D cards according to Commandant Blunkett is to protect us against terrorists who are in this country illegally, and cut the number of illegal immigrants crawling out of the backs of Scanias. The only way this will work is if the Police have checkpoints. Otherwise it's a fig leaf over the groin of the embarrassingly exposed cock-up that has been this Government's handling of immigration policy.

If I.D cards are compulsory, then NOT having your I.D card on you becomes a crime. If you happen to be non-white, especially if you look middle-eastern then failure to carry an I.D card will be adequate probable cause for questioning.

If you are happy to to be stopped at Police checkpoints to have your I.D checked regularly, that's a matter for you, but I suggest to you that there are many people who won't be happt at all.

As for potential abuses in future, then there are as many as the imagination will conjure. Just for starters, failure to produce you I.D may become a jailable offence, no questions asked. It might sound far fetched, but we don't know what Governments we might have in the future, the BNP are gaining popularity. But, we certainly do know the powers we would be handing to them on a plate because we were scared some foreigner might want to blow us up.

i thought you were going to speak about them being abused by people, not governments...btw, you should give the country more credit than to vote for such parties (or maybe i'm just too trusting?!)

so you're saying the government is taking too much in the way of taxes?
No, I'm saying the state doesn't adequately justify taxation.

No, I'm saying the state doesn't adequately justify taxation.

ok - another question (sorry) - do you meaning taxing us at all, or where they spend it?

You left-wing soft touches really are out of touch with things. In this modern world people need to be protected from both terrorists and criminals. Those who are suspected of terrorism (and let's be honest - many of those who are suspected do have something to do with terrorism). Left-wing softies would rather see criminals walking our streets instead of imprisoning them - incase it disrupts their 'human rights'. Persoanly, what this country needs is a period of slightly right wing (not that extreme though) to start sorting these problems out.
We had the 80s.

That didn't work too well

i thought you were going to speak about them being abused by people, not governments...btw, you should give the country more credit than to vote for such parties (or maybe i'm just too trusting?!)

I wish I was as trusting as you, but the equivalent parties in Europe are getting stronger, IIRC Chirac was in a narrow Presidential race with a bona-fide fascist in France which also has a huge anti-semtism problem, and things are getting very ugly in Holland.

I wish I was as trusting as you, but the equivalent parties in Europe are getting stronger, IIRC Chirac was in a narrow Presidential race with a bona-fide fascist in France which also has a huge anti-semtism problem, and things are getting very ugly in Holland.

ahem reason to keep europe at arms length ahem (different thread that one!)
i know, it's really bad, but would the pattern in europe really rub off on us? but i can see you're point, i mean labour are shifting right, perhaps with the views of the country...

We had the 80s.

That didn't work too well

That was then, different age, different problems

ok - another question (sorry) - do you meaning taxing us at all, or where they spend it?
Both

You left-wing soft touches really are out of touch with things. In this modern world people need to be protected from both terrorists and criminals. Those who are suspected of terrorism (and let's be honest - many of those who are suspected do have something to do with terrorism). Left-wing softies would rather see criminals walking our streets instead of imprisoning them - incase it disrupts their 'human rights'. Persoanly, what this country needs is a period of slightly right wing (not that extreme though) to start sorting these problems out.

You are very much mistaken if you think this is a leftist issue, and you are even more mistaken if you think I am either left-wing, or a soft touch. If you think sitting still while the Government systematically robs you of your rights is being hardline you carry on deluding yourself that you're a champion of Justice.

Being right wing is first and formost about wanting small government doing everything it can not to intrude in your life, not a legislation crazed dictatorship passing scaremongering laws that undermine the rights of every person in this country in the hopes that it will make people feel safer from imagined threats that have a microscopic chance of happening. And as I've said, I am not against arresting and imprisoning criminals, I'm stating as a fact that CCTV filming crimes is a long way from being as effective as actual Police Officers on the street as a detterent from crimes being commited in the first place.

This is not an left or right-wing issue, it's a libertarian issue. If you're liberty means nothing to you that's your look out.

ahem reason to keep europe at arms length ahem (different thread that one!)
i know, it's really bad, but would the pattern in europe really rub off on us? but i can see you're point, i mean labour are shifting right, perhaps with the views of the country...

We have had a problem in this country of a sort of self-imposed seperatism from some Asians. I can understand this, as in the 70s and 80s they didn't want their kids forced to say Christian prayers and hymns in the morning which was the practice of the time, so they got elected to councils, got their own seperate schools built, and all lived around those schools. It wasn't good, but you can understand it.

The seperatism has become very unhealthy though, no go areas for whites and suchlike. The BNP has had some high profile marches in these areas, but lately things do seem to have calmed. We can hope that integration has started and will ease these things. I would hope for the best, but people are fast to hate these days, i don't know why.

I'd like to say it couldn't happen here, even without European influence, but I'd rather not risk it.

Oswald Mosley was a popular man with a lot of people once upon a time.

The difference between living in a totalitarian state, left or right, would, and has been a very thin line, they all use people's fears of what ever is expedient at the time. I feel we are now at the top of a very slippery slope, When most people think of orwell's 1984, it is the big brother watching you, that lodges in their memory, the piece that I fear most is the never ending war, which all the abuses of civil liberties, were brought in to protect the people from the enemy, who, only seemed to appear in small numbers, on the state news station, at just the right time. when the state needed yet more powers.

We have had a problem in this country of a sort of self-imposed seperatism from some Asians. I can understand this, as in the 70s and 80s they didn't want their kids forced to say Christian prayers and hymns in the morning which was the practice of the time, so they got elected to councils, got their own seperate schools built, and all lived around those schools. It wasn't good, but you can understand it.

They still have to sing hymms in some places.
They're going way too far this time, especially with the trial without jury. 9/11 seems to have given politicians around the world a license to go nuts. After 9/11 did millions of people suddenly decide to become terrorists? Or is it more likely that whatever threat there is now is about the same as it was before? Okay, maybe we should have been a bit more careful than we were prior to 9/11, but personally I'd rather take the risk of being bombed than see some of these insanse so-called 'security' measures come into place.

We have had a problem in this country of a sort of self-imposed seperatism from some Asians. I can understand this, as in the 70s and 80s they didn't want their kids forced to say Christian prayers and hymns in the morning which was the practice of the time, so they got elected to councils, got their own seperate schools built, and all lived around those schools. It wasn't good, but you can understand it.

They still have to sing hymms in some places.
They're going way too far this time, especially with the trial without jury. 9/11 seems to have given politicians around the world a license to go nuts. After 9/11 did millions of people suddenly decide to become terrorists? Or is it more likely that whatever threat there is now is about the same as it was before? Okay, maybe we should have been a bit more careful than we were prior to 9/11, but personally I'd rather take the risk of being bombed than see some of these insanse so-called 'security' measures come into place.
Agreed.

As for the never ending war, t's called the war aginst terror, I balive it's just started. It's almost as if Owells prophacys are coming true, a 20 years after he predicted they would. ID cards ect. Whats next? Big Blunkett is watching you?

I'm against CCTV in the streets. CCTV doesn't stop crimes, it just films them, or moves them somewhere else. By CCTV logic the only way to combat crimes being commited where there aren't cameras is to have cameras EVERYWHERE. Unfortunately, even the dumbest street thug has worked out that if you wear a hooded top the cameras become useless.

An actual real life Policeman on the street is what cuts crime, because even if it's just one man or woman, potential criminals know he has a radio that can bring the noise very, very fast indeed.

By taking Police off the streets our streets have been made less safe. Because our streets became less safe communities started asking for more and more CCTV cameras. Read Big Brother by George Orwell and you might understand the genius of this, they didn't force they cameras on us, they made crime so bad we were stupid enough to ask for them.

If you think CCTV doesn't cut crime come to Plymouth. We have a certain thing called Union street where ALL or virtually all of the clubs reside. CCTV has cut the amount of crime commited down there greatly.

Actually 'an actual real life Policeman on the streets' doesn't cut crime. This is because when you have a policeman there the amount of recorded crime -which all the facts and figures are generated from- goes up. As such the only way to cut crime is to cut the number of police officers. Stupid. But true unfortunately. :)

But that's beside the point, sort of, the number of police officers patrolling has been raised over the past seven years -I think, can't remember off the top of my head when Labour came in- due to public concern over the matter of crime.


As for ID cards...I'm for them. However the most you should be allowed to place on the card should be a thumb print as well as the obvious details. While Parliament should not be allowed to touch the cards in any way, shape or form for at least a period of say fifteen years -thus, about a generation- and they must have to hold a referendum upon the action proposed.

I'm surprised that this thread has gotten so far without anyone pointing out the problem that most epitomises this Labour government; the ID cards are a poorly thought out botch that simply won't work

Basically they're using a mixture of unproven hi-tech solutions (all the biometric elements) and easily worked around low-tech solutions (PINs and passwords). Basically this means that it'll be easily circumvented for much fraud and unreliable when it's really needed.

Why does this sound like every bloody technological solution this government has ever embarked upon?

I'm surprised that this thread has gotten so far without anyone pointing out the problem that most epitomises this Labour government; the ID cards are a poorly thought out botch that simply won't work

Basically they're using a mixture of unproven hi-tech solutions (all the biometric elements) and easily worked around low-tech solutions (PINs and passwords). Basically this means that it'll be easily circumvented for much fraud and unreliable when it's really needed.

Why does this sound like every bloody technological solution this government has ever embarked upon?
Okay.

Down with the monarchy!

Note: The above message was not intended as flame-bait.

Okay.

:confused:

So, what did you think about it, the new bills I mean. Personally I think it's more of a step towards a more authoritarian state. I mean do we NEED ID cards.

Your comments please.

ID Cards are so last decade.

The simple implantation of microchips is so much more efficient, more difficult to forge, and far more discrete.

ID Cards are so last decade.

The simple implantation of microchips is so much more efficient, more difficult to forge, and far more discrete.
Plus we won't get any bloody hippies 'losing' theirs

save people damaging either cards or microchips, barcode everyone at birth.

Now thgis thread is starting to go mental.

they should need to justify they're existance to the state if they're wanting to qualify for benefits etc

What about getting a job?

What about getting hospital treatment?

What about travelling anywhere?

What about simply existing?

What about the fakes that I'm betting will be available within six months of the introduction of this barmy plan?

i would hate this government to oppress us (or any for that matter, but particularly this one)...maybe i'm just looking to advantages, so please, tell me how they may be abused

Okay, so how many gays do we have? Or jews? Or them damn blacks? Or people opposed to us?

Ah, I know, let's check on the detailed central ID database that the people in government 30 years ago set up!

You left-wing soft touches really are out of touch with things. In this modern world people need to be protected from both terrorists and criminals. Those who are suspected of terrorism (and let's be honest - many of those who are suspected do have something to do with terrorism). Left-wing softies would rather see criminals walking our streets instead of imprisoning them - incase it disrupts their 'human rights'. Persoanly, what this country needs is a period of slightly right wing (not that extreme though) to start sorting these problems out.

We had 18 years of right wing, remember?

They were called the Tories. They got slapped down mightily in 1997. I'm sure you'll remember that.

Otherwise it's a fig leaf over the groin of the embarrassingly exposed cock-up that has been this Government's handling of immigration policy.

Lovely imagery! Is that original?