NationStates Jolt Archive

This is mainly directed to conservative Republicans. Are moral values everything? I mean, would you vote for a guy who wants to ban stem cell, right to choose, and is big on religion, and all that other moral stuff, even if he was horrible on the econemy, or said that he didnt care about it?

Just to add, I chose the third one down. Saying that Moral values mean a little bit.

Moral values do indeed mean quite a bit. I mean, if a guy had completely no moral values, there'd be no way I'd vote for him. Now, with Kerry, you couldn't really tell where he stood. He never came out and said 'I feel this was about gay rights' or about abortion. I also believe that religious morals don't have a place in politics. The democrats drag religious morals into everything. Gay marriage, for example. Marriage is a religious act, and the government has no right to interfere with that practice. Abortion isn't about religious morals. Killing an innocent unborn child isn't just a religious moral....it's a humane moral.

I think morals are important, not ideology . And I'm betting that is the main focus. A person's morals have a lot to do with honesty and the compassion and care they put into their job. But someone's views on abortion, gay marriage, and such shouldn't decide a vote near as much as what they can do for education and the economy. :)

Morals vary the world over. Care of the environment. Respect for privacy. These are natural moral values in some cultures, but these do not exist in another culture.

It is part of the reason you look at a foriegner and think OMG you are weird.

Ahhh...here is a bag of worms.

what is morality? what do you mean when you say moral? and how is it different from what i mean when i say moral.

:fluffle: what do you think of these two? they are kissing and hugging in a very intimate way...which one is the girl...which one is the boy...or are they both boys or girls...have you ever though of those two that way?

it's an interesting question...

Regards
mmb

High-caliber character can get you in alot of trouble and out of alot of trouble. It makes you original. If you die while holding on to your virtues, morals and character, you won't be just another statistic. You won't be another statistic because of the fearlessness and devotion to your people and your purpose. High caliber character cannot be used vegging out in front of a TV or at wild parties and concerts (not that parties and concerts are bad, it's just not usually used). It comes out at the hardest of times when your life or lives of others are at stake. It is practiced in everyday life, but you won't know who really holds on to thier values until the person is tested in the hardest of situations. Until he is called to believe what he believes in at whatever the cost, you might never know.

Personally I think that the term 'morality' doesn't only encompass reproductive and sexual issues; everything about the way in which we live our lives is dictated by our own personal morality to some degree. You talk about economics like it's separate from morality, but issues like the proper funding of health care are just as morally important as questions about the value of human life and the relationship between church and state.

Gay marriage, for example. Marriage is a religious act, and the government has no right to interfere with that practice. Abortion isn't about religious morals. Killing an innocent unborn child isn't just a religious moral....it's a humane moral.
In the Western world today, marriage is more of a legal issue than a religious one: you don't have to have a religious ceremony to be legally married, and church laws and state laws on marriage don't have to correspond, for example, divorce is legal in many countries, even though the Catholic church doesn't allow it. Gay marriage could still be legalised even if it wasn't sanctioned by any religion.
Abortion is at heart a religious issue: it's about the commandment "Thou shalt not kill", which is by no means universal. Different cultures and religions have differing views about the value of human life.

Values are subjective.

Ever notice how people who vote for presidents based on "moral convictions" usually don't know shit about what they're actually saying?

Like "OMG marrige is religious!" They actually believe that. Next I'll hear an argument about the world rotating around the sun.

There are some values that can be considered subjective (the value of art) however some values, often defined as core values are not. (integrity, honesty, etc)

To consider morality subjective you would have to consider immorality subjective. (stealing, rape, fraud)

Core values, often considered 'morals' are not subjective.

There are some values that can be considered subjective (the value of art) however some values, often defined as core values are not. (integrity, honesty, etc)

To consider morality subjective you would have to consider immorality subjective. (stealing, rape, fraud)

Core values, often considered 'morals' are not subjective.

People are going to pounce on me for this, but I do consider immorality to be subjective. In the old Viking culture, if someone... say... made a comment about your mother, it would be perfectly acceptable to agree with them and then kill them for the insult.

I do not consider stealing to be wrong 100% of the time. I do not consider the theft of bread if you are starving to be immoral. I do not consider it immoral to steal office supplies from a business that has just fired you on your way out.

Some people consider it immoral to engage in sodomy. I don't, provided said sodomy is consensual. In history and at present, many people (Spanish Inquisition, Crusaders, Abortion clinic bombers, etc.) have considered/do consider imposing their views on others or killing others because of those views to be perfectly moral. Rape has not necessarily been considered immoral in some instances in history (and sadly, at present). Morality is subjective.

Perception does not alter morality. Reverende Jim Jones (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/) and his followers may have THOUGHT their actions were moral, it did not make them so.

Moral values are important of course, however I call moral "don't destroy the earth that 6,000,000,000 people need to live", not "gays shouldn't be allowed to be married".

the term of "moral values" is wrong, cause it mostly applies on religious questions. Not on moral things.

There are some values that can be considered subjective (the value of art) however some values, often defined as core values are not. (integrity, honesty, etc)

To consider morality subjective you would have to consider immorality subjective. (stealing, rape, fraud)

Core values, often considered 'morals' are not subjective.

Stealing, rape and fraud can all be argued to be moral under certain circumstances...

There are no absolute morals, period.

Perception does not alter morality. Reverende Jim Jones (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/) and his followers may have THOUGHT their actions were moral, it did not make them so.

Circumstances may force someone between choosing immorality or a greater evil, but it does not make the untimate decision any less immoral - which is part of why morality is difficult and not easy.

Originally Posted by Callisdrun
People are going to pounce on me for this, but I do consider immorality to be subjective. In the old Viking culture, if someone... say... made a comment about your mother, it would be perfectly acceptable to agree with them and then kill them for the insult.

.................Morality is subjective.


Everything is subjective. Good, bad or indifferent there is at least one person who can argue to any side of an argument based off of what their morals are and what they believe. To the majority they may be classified as immoral simply because the majority does not agree to their opinion. Blah Blah Blah my point being everything is subjective therefor morals really don't mean to much as a whole.

Perception does not alter morality. Reverende Jim Jones (http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial4/jonestown/) and his followers may have THOUGHT their actions were moral, it did not make them so.

Circumstances may force someone between choosing immorality or a greater evil, but it does not make the untimate decision any less immoral - which is part of why morality is difficult and not easy.

Just because one person can make an argument for or against something does not mean they may be right. Some people argued that lynching black people simply for being black was a good idea. They were wrong. No case can be made they they were right and the fact that they felt they were right did not make it so. There is no subjectivity there.

Morality doesn't mean that much to me. I am a strong advocate of civil rights, but an elected officials moral beliefs don't matter that much to me, and as long as they don't end up affecting me. He can go and cheat on his multiple same-sex wives as far as I'm concerned.

He-he talking stomach is now dead, guess he didnt have too many Moral Values! Hah!

well, I'm not a conservative republican, but you know, sorry I'm so moral that I think war is immoral.

I don't know how people can think gay marriage is immoral but war isn't.

Originally Posted by Bozzy
Circumstances may force someone between choosing immorality or a greater evil, but it does not make the untimate decision any less immoral - which is part of why morality is difficult and not easy.

Maybe my speech skills are not all that Comprehendible so I'll try a different approach. First of all tell me who you are to decide what is moral and what is not because that is part of the point I was trying to make. In a way everything is subjective because no one person has the right or ablility to say what is right or wrong. They can say what they believe is right or wrong, but they cannot tell the whole world (or anyone in it) that they are moral, immoral or anythings else because they disagree with another's opinion/belief/whatever.

Maybe my ability to put my thoughts to words just sucks does anyone understand to any point what it is I'm trying to get across.