NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm curious about what people in other countries think.

I think the States have the potential to be one of the most well-regarded nations on Earth. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of black marks in the last fifty years to tarnish the reputation.

Please try not to start a flame war.

Pariah would be an understatement.

The USA is the ultimate paradox. On the one hand it doesn't give a crap, but on the other hand, it is very powerful and awe-inspiring.

oh yeah.... right.... no flaming... uh huh

oh yeah.... right.... no flaming... uh huh
I won't get involved in any debates. I just want to see what others think. I hope others will do the same.

My opinion: They're too big and too powerful. Bush is now abusing that power.

Hrm, americans have the biggest ecological footprint, consume the most natural resources, waste enough food each day to feed approx. 210 000 people for a year, "promote" democracy in countries like chile, destroy countries like Iraq when they could be preventing autrocities like the genocide in sudan, Call nafta a free-trade agreement...

Yeah, I think america is great :rolleyes:

America itself is not evil, but people in it's government are. I like to visit it and I've bought stuff from it. Theres things I like about it and thing I don't like about it, which is my view on most countries, except for a few :D.

Just hate their foreign policy.

Just hate their foreign policy.
they have one? :eek:

they have one? :eek:

It's the "make the populace fear the foreigners" policy.

A little on the irrelevant side, but did you know that Americans spend around $10 billion on pornography each year, roughly equivalent to the government's annual foreign aid spending, and the USA has spent some $19 trillion on 'defence' since World War Two.

they have one? :eek:

yes, 'fuck everyone else'

is more or less it

As an American I think right now I have the same kind of feeling like most of the world... "Hey America stop being an asshole, what happened to you? You use to be cool" I really despise how every year we have two retards to choose from for president. It's like everyone that should be running for president and would actually make a good leader don't want to because it doesn't interest them.

more bad than good - like pretty much every other country on the globe.

The USA is the ultimate paradox. On the one hand it doesn't give a crap, but on the other hand, it is very powerful and awe-inspiring.
I disagree. The US has a long history of having opinions on matters, and accordingly interfering in such, which are none of their goddamn business. Now the tables are turned in that everyone suddenly has an opinion on the US, and it generally is not a good one. Fitting, I think. Stick your eyeballs into other people's a---- and they will get pissed off.

I disagree. The US has a long history of having opinions on matters, and accordingly interfering in such, which are none of their goddamn business. Now the tables are turned in that everyone suddenly has an opinion on the US, and it generally is not a good one. Fitting, I think. Stick your eyeballs into other people's a---- and they will get pissed off.

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...
Heh, well if that's America's attitude, then it may as well stop patronising people and pretending it is the good guy. It is manifestly not.

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...


well, 'nothing' is not strictly true, as you may have noticed a few years back

well, 'nothing' is not strictly true, as you may have noticed a few years back

Good point but look what happened to the people that did that.

i wouldn't say i hate america, but i would claim to hate some americans. notice i said 'some'... yeah.

i've never been to america, but i would say it has some beautiful scenery and on a modern cultural level, it's offered the rest of the world advances in technology and yeah, good stuff i use every day.

what i hate about america is when some idiot starts the whole 'if it wasn't for us, you wouldn't have that computer you're using... or anything else! because we wouldn't have invented it and you'd probably be training to be Hitler Youth!' *sigh*

it's those people who can't be content with being modest that annoy me. i hate those kind of people from all nations, but since americans have a tendency to gloat the most... they annoy me the most :P and when they say 'us', it makes me think about the person who said it. did that person help contribute in any way to the advances the US has made up to the present day? probably not. that's just patriotism gone mad... which also annoys me.

the US would be so much better if it could accept what it had, and realise the rest of the world knew it had that too, instead of telling us what we already know.

Good point but look what happened to the people that did that.
Erm...what? They were killed in the (successful) attempt. Then the US went and killed a bunch of people tennuously connected to them in Afghanistan, and the terrorist group in question ceased being a group and became a brand to which any terrorist organisation could opt in.

Nothing has changed. People are going to keep trying, and some will always get through. Heh, not as if there will ever be a shortage of volunteers.

Erm...what? They were killed in the (successful) attempt. Then the US went and killed a bunch of people tennuously connected to them in Afghanistan, and the terrorist group in question ceased being a group and became a brand to which any terrorist organisation could opt in.

Nothing has changed. People are going to keep trying, and some will always get through. Heh, not as if there will ever be a shortage of volunteers.

I wouldn't call the Taliban a 'bunch of people tenuously connected to them' they were a full blown terror supporting regime. They needed to be brought down. Surely there is no one that does not see that connection?

People are going to keep trying? It doesn't look that way. Name one major terrorist attack on the US since 9/11?

Erm...what? They were killed in the (successful) attempt. Then the US went and killed a bunch of people tennuously connected to them in Afghanistan, and the terrorist group in question ceased being a group and became a brand to which any terrorist organisation could opt in.


saved me typing that, cheers

''the people who did that'' eh?

:(

more bad than good - like pretty much every other country on the globe.

hear, hear.

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...


Someday that will be your epitaph....

Yes, I have to agree with Carling, especially since the end of the cold war, American society has been characterised by arrogance. And it is getting worse by the year. At the moment it is all a bit of a novelty, so people love to bash it, but I can see a time coming when it gets old and the world simply stop caring about what America has to say. That would be another irony.

I wouldn't call the Taliban a 'bunch of people tenuously connected to them' they were a full blown terror supporting regime. They needed to be brought down. Surely there is no one that does not see that connection?


maybe in the US 'no-one doesn't see the connection'.

in the real world however, some people do think a bit deeper
?

Sorry, everyone. Here's the deal. America has an inconsistent foreign policy at times because of two things:

1. We change leaders pretty often. Different leaders often means a different foreign policy.

2. A fickle populace. Americans can be quick to change their minds, and if they do change their minds, the politicians are likely to change their stances.

The results of this have a tendency to annoy some people.

If you have other problems with our foreign policy, that's probably more of an ideological concern, and not something I would attempt to address.

Tactical Grace: If I had said "On the one hand it gives a crap [...]" it would neither have sounded as cool nor have been as obviously a rip-off (http://www.realultimatepower.net/index3.htm).

Someday that will be your epitaph....

LoL, whatever you say...

Yes, I have to agree with Carling, especially since the end of the cold war, American society has been characterised by arrogance. And it is getting worse by the year. At the moment it is all a bit of a novelty, so people love to bash it, but I can see a time coming when it gets old and the world simply stop caring about what America has to say. That would be another irony.

Americans have always been arrogant, arrogance has always been a big part of our culture.

LoL, the world will stop caring what America has to say when it has no bombs. Until then, the world revolves around the US.

maybe in the US 'no-one doesn't see the connection'.

in the real world however, some people do think a bit deeper
?

Right, so when the Taliban refused to stop hosting terror regimes there was no connection there? :rolleyes:

I thought even liberals knew that.

I think more specific words, not words like "good, bad, right or evil", are needed to truly make any interpretation of America and it's role in the world

I don't ate Americans just your stupid right wing, bigtopian...(Rants and Raves) Giverment. Especcally that escaped Mankey thats your leader.

LoL, the world will stop caring what America has to say when it has no bombs. Until then, the world revolves around the US.

that was a joke, right? :S

LoL, the world will stop caring what America has to say when it has no bombs. Until then, the world revolves around the US.
I commend you on your honesty, conceeding that America speaks best through violence. :)

However, already when an American government spokesperson or policy maker is speaking on TV, I mute the sound and go do something else, or briefly switch to another news channel. I know other people who have got into the habit of doing the same. And this, in America's greatest ally, the UK. I think you will find people are already coming to find what America has to say, increasingly tedious.

There is only one problem with the U.S.A. is all the corrupt or stuped politions and buisness men.

that was a joke, right? :S

probably not.

i take it that concludes the discussion, really

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...

I'm pretty sure the Romans said the same thing. More or less.

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...
This is what is wrong with the US, and where l'il shrub (aka "bush") went wrong, and is dragging the rest of us (US - us) - almost 50% of us kicking and screaming.

The US has the potential to do very much good. However, no one likes a bully - and that is what we are becoming. It is one thing to work together with others to adopt an agenda dedicated to "fixing" things in the world, and then go about it cooperatively. It is quite another thing to adopt one's own agenda, and go about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Diplomacy is not l'il shrubs stong suit. Which is too bad, because diplomacy is what is needed. Discussion and concensus MUST precede action if that action is to be acceptable to others.

For those who have the "who cares what everybody else thinks" attitude, the trash heap of history is piled high with empires who thought they were so strong it didn't matter what others thought. If the US wants to avoid that - and I do, for the sake of generations to come - then we must care what others think NOW while we have power. Might does not make right, no matter who has the might.

edit - i am a native born us citizen

I commend you on your honesty, conceeding that America speaks best through violence. :)

However, already when an American government spokesperson or policy maker is speaking on TV, I mute the sound and go do something else, or briefly switch to another news channel. I know other people who have got into the habit of doing the same. And this, in America's greatest ally, the UK. I think you will find people are already coming to find what America has to say, increasingly tedious.

Tell me, which nation or group doesn't speak best through violence.

I don't really care that you mute politicians, and the fact that you and "other people" wouldn't just change the channel is really quite sad...

I agree, the UK doesn't care what the US thinks. After all, they would never follow us into two wars...

Right, so when the Taliban refused to stop hosting terror regimes there was no connection there? :rolleyes:

I thought even liberals knew that.

it goes far deeper than that... you see
now, using terms such as 'terror regimes' shows how much these stories get skewed in the US.

Taliban were violent and repressive but tags like that explain nothing

don't get me wrong - all fundamentalists need to be reformed.
oh, hang on,
that's probably why i hate each and every bush voter.
scum

Americans have always been arrogant, arrogance has always been a big part of our culture.

LoL, the world will stop caring what America has to say when it has no bombs. Until then, the world revolves around the US.

I guess that comes part and parcel with being the worlds superpower.:D

--------------------------------------------------------------

I voted for more good than bad. They've made major bloopers concerning Iraq these past few years, but overall, it's still more good than bad.

ps.
i find americans' use of the word 'Liberal' very disturbing

The USA is none of these things. It is the greatest lie ever told. Did you honestly think something so absurd could actually exist?

Well - I've read several posts by Colchus now, and I'm thoroughly convinced he/she is one of two things:

1. An incredibly sarcastic individual
2. An idiot

I'm pretty sure the Romans said the same thing. More or less.

Wait, you mean because Rome fell thousands of years ago the US will fall too! :rolleyes: You got me there....

This is what is wrong with the US, and where l'il shrub (aka "bush") went wrong, and is dragging the rest of us (US - us) - almost 50% of us kicking and screaming.

The US has the potential to do very much good. However, no one likes a bully - and that is what we are becoming. It is one thing to work together with others to adopt an agenda dedicated to "fixing" things in the world, and then go about it cooperatively. It is quite another thing to adopt one's own agenda, and go about it regardless of what anyone else thinks.

Diplomacy is not l'il shrubs stong suit. Which is too bad, because diplomacy is what is needed. Discussion and concensus MUST precede action if that action is to be acceptable to others.

For those who have the "who cares what everybody else thinks" attitude, the trash heap of history is piled high with empires who thought they were so strong it didn't matter what others thought. If the US wants to avoid that - and I do, for the sake of generations to come - then we must care what others think NOW while we have power. Might does not make right, no matter who has the might.

This is what is wrong with the US, and where l'il shrub (aka "bush") went wrong, and is dragging the rest of us (US - us) - almost 50% of us kicking and screaming.

LoL shurb? Let's think of something more original shall we?

And the key words there is almost 50% of us.

Diplomacy is not l'il shrubs stong suit. Which is too bad, because diplomacy is what is needed. Discussion and concensus MUST precede action if that action is to be acceptable to others.

Sorry but diplomacy doesn't really work well with terrorists. Clinton tried that remember?

I see you people as bloodthisty barbarians who love death and suffering more then anything in life. (sarcasm... a little... not that much).
I remember talking to my mother about bush´s re-election.
*dialog translated from portuguese*
"mom, you know what happened tonight?"
"what?"
"bush won in the US"
"WHAT?!"
"Yeah, they voted for him again..."
"But... but... how...?"
"I don´t know mom, those people are crazy... I don´t know"
"They like wars... it´s what they want..."
"Yeah..."
"...are you serious?"
"I am!"
"How could they do it?"
"I don´t know, mom, I think they like war, I don´t know."
"Well, we have our problems here, let´s focus on that and pray that they don´t decide to blow up the world..."
"Yeah..."

ps.
i find americans' use of the word 'Liberal' very disturbing

I completely agree. In america, we have two parties -

The Republicans - your friendly neighbourhood Reactionary/Fascist/Theocratic party

and

The Democrats - the other guys, our Conservative pary

I personally am sick and tired of the neo-conservatives calling people "liberal" when there isn't a single truly liberal person anywhere in the government.

That's why i like Europe. You guys have truly representative parties, usually more than two of them :) not to mention civil liberties, protection for the lower class and of course, a real justice system.

p.s. Guess which way i voted.... ;)

it goes far deeper than that... you see
now, using terms such as 'terror regimes' shows how much these stories get skewed in the US.

Taliban were violent and repressive but tags like that explain nothing

don't get me wrong - all fundamentalists need to be reformed.
oh, hang on,
that's probably why i hate each and every bush voter.
scum

Wow, calling me scum, I can't really come back from that. :rolleyes: The Taliban weren't just violent and repressive, they also supported UBL if you don't remember?

No, fundamentalists don't need to be reformed because they can't be reformed. However they can be killed....

ps.
i find americans' use of the word 'Liberal' very disturbing

PS
I find your use of the word 'scum' very disturbing. I also find your hatred toward every Bush voter disturbing too...

Well - I've read several posts by Colchus now, and I'm thoroughly convinced he/she is one of two things:

1. An incredibly sarcastic individual
2. An idiot

How mature! But are you sure your mom will let you say words like 'idiot' on the internet?

Hrm, americans have the biggest ecological footprint, consume the most natural resources, waste enough food each day to feed approx. 210 000 people for a year, "promote" democracy in countries like chile, destroy countries like Iraq when they could be preventing autrocities like the genocide in sudan, Call nafta a free-trade agreement...

Yeah, I think america is great :rolleyes:

Thank You finally someone can see america in the same way, as a bunch of tossers that dont give a dam in the world for anyone else. How about instead of wasting the food they all go on a diet and give the food away, at least they won't have to invest so heavily in cardiology because they are all fat!!! Oh, and can everyone also take the p*** out of Blair please for being such a gigantic bum chum of Bush!
Thanks to all those who agree, and all those that don't... start looking at the facts!

I completely agree. In america, we have two parties -

The Republicans - your friendly neighbourhood Reactionary/Fascist/Theocratic party

and

The Democrats - the other guys, our Conservative pary

I personally am sick and tired of the neo-conservatives calling people "liberal" when there isn't a single truly liberal person anywhere in the government.

That's why i like Europe. You guys have truly representative parties, usually more than two of them :) not to mention civil liberties, protection for the lower class and of course, a real justice system.

p.s. Guess which way i voted.... ;)

More like The Republicans - your friendly neighbourhood conservative, morale, terrorist killing party

and

The Democrats - the other guys, our Liberal party who can't be trusted with power.

Well at least that's how more than half of the country saw it...

I'm curious about what people in other countries think.
I voted for more good than bad. When I was younger I used to think how nice it is to live in the US, the culture, the freedom, the technology, rock and roll, and woodstock... but that was before. Then I learned of the guns, wars, racisms and many more bad things in the US. Its like you have to own a gun just to feel secure. I know that there are still a lot of good in the US but now I'm feeling quite comfortable where I am... BTW, I'm from the Philippines...

That's why i like Europe. You guys have truly representative parties, usually more than two of them :) not to mention civil liberties, protection for the lower class and of course, a real justice system.

p.s. Guess which way i voted.... ;)


you give me some hope americans may not be so blinkered after all...
BUT . . .

here (in UK) the parties are, in the last 10 years, so similar.
not so representative as you might guess..


the 'real justice system' is soon to be converted.
trials with no jury...

Wait, you mean because Rome fell thousands of years ago the US will fall too! :rolleyes: You got me there....The US is falling now, bub. Take a look at our economy, and the dollar vs the euro. We have reached the apex, and are just over the other side. Every empire falls - it can't be avoided. What can be different is what happens on the downside. That will depend, whether we like it or not, on what the rest of the world thinks of our behavior when we were at the top.

Lol shurb? Let's think of something more original shall we? Like, for instance, learning to spell? I choose to use the least objectionable "name" I thought of. My real opinion of him would side-track this topic

And the key words there is almost 50% of us.Absolutely true, incredibly sad and depressing. Means over 50% of the US were either fooled, or are fools.

Sorry but diplomacy doesn't really work well with terrorists. Clinton tried that remember?Diplomacy does not work with terrorists. Diplomacy works with the rest of the nations of the world, when we want them to agree with us/work with us. You, obviously (you've already said so) don't care if they do or not. Which is what is wrong with l'il shrub and his cronies/followers.

More like The Republicans - your friendly neighbourhood conservative, morale, terrorist killing party

THERE ARE NO friendly conservatives

THERE ARE NO terrorists

shame half your country didn't realise !!

When one considers liberalism, it is worth considering its counterpart, authoritarianism and fascism. Liberalism is about rights and liberties, not least one's ability to vote, freedom from arbitrary detainment and racial/religious persecution, etc. If one criticises that, then one is endorsing the reverse.

I have yet to understand how Americans have come to hate the umbrella term for the very ideals they claim to uphold. But then, they no longer appear to uphold them. Perhaps an open endorsement of authoritarianism is the logical next step? Colchus appears to have embraced it already, and his opinions are increasingly mainstream in the US.

Well - I've read several posts by Colchus now, and I'm thoroughly convinced he/she is one of two things:

1. An incredibly sarcastic individual
2. An idiot
To which Colchus responded:

How mature! But are you sure your mom will let you say words like 'idiot' on the internet?
Much more mature than your moronic viewpoint that it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks. Does your mommy know you're spouting that utter nonsense on the internet?

When one considers liberalism, it is worth considering its counterpart, authoritarianism and fascism. Liberalism is about rights and liberties, not least one's ability to vote, freedom from arbitrary detainment and racial/religious persecution, etc. If one criticises that, then one is endorsing the reverse.

I have yet to understand how Americans have come to hate the umbrella term for the very ideals they claim to uphold. But then, they no longer appear to uphold them. Perhaps an open endorsement of authoritarianism is the logical next step? Colchus appears to have embraced it already, and his opinions are increasingly mainstream in the US.

put far more eloquently than i could have managed.
hit the nail on the head.
i'm off home now. ;)

The US is falling now, bub. Take a look at our economy, and the dollar vs the euro. We have reached the apex, and are just over the other side. Every empire falls - it can't be avoided. What can be different is what happens on the downside. That will depend, whether we like it or not, on what the rest of the world thinks of our behavior when we were at the top.

Yes our economy is doing quite well. Wall Street is doing pretty good right now... Oh the Euro, I hear it's wreaking havoc in Europe right now. Here's a tip, when your currency is seriously inflating your economy that is not a good thing. :rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah the same old "every empire falls" argument that I always hear on the internet... I guess it's a good thing that America isn't an empire right?

Oh and when and if America falls you can say that you were right, until then your argument of the US falling stands to be proven.

Like, for instance, learning to spell? I choose to use the least objectionable "name" I thought of. My real opinion of him would side-track this topic

Oops I messed up spelling someone else's insult, I guess I do need to learn how to spell... :rolleyes:

Absolutely true, incredibly sad and depressing. Means over 50% of the US were either fooled, or are fools.

Or maybe, *GASP*, your the fool?

Diplomacy does not work with terrorists. Diplomacy works with the rest of the nations of the world, when we want them to agree with us/work with us. You, obviously (you've already said so) don't care if they do or not. Which is what is wrong with l'il shrub and his cronies/followers.

Um...the coalition for the war in Iraq is actually quite large. Just because it doesn't contain France and Germany doesn't mean that it's not large...

There are friendly conservatives. Not enough of them, but they do exist.

There are terrorists - and even one of them is way too many.

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...

If WWIII or WWIV is US -vs- the world, the US loses, and it would hardly take that.

To which Colchus responded:


Much more mature than your moronic viewpoint that it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks. Does your mommy know you're spouting that utter nonsense on the internet?

LoL, utter nonsense?

over 50% of the US were either fooled, or are fools.

Sounds to me that you are so blind from partisanship that you cannot see the truth in someone else's argument.

If WWIII or WWIV is US -vs- the world, the US loses, and it would hardly take that.

Actually if WWII is US vs the world, everyone loses. Except the cochroaches that is...

First of all, I think that you people who say that America produces 25% of the world's pollution should also realize that it produces about 25% of the world's GDP. The American economic engine is huge. Is this an excuse for anti-environmentalist policies? No. But it's something to keep in mind. Rapid change might cause a drop in not only our own GDP, but affect economies around the world.

Second of all, the U.S. will not be able to maintain it's place as world leader for very long if it does not start cooperating with other countries. While it is true that no one can challenge us militarily (except perhaps the old Soviet Union's nuclear arsenal), we will soon have a real competitor, if not a leader, economically. The GDP of the U.S. is about 10.89 trillion dollars. It is true that no single country can match this; the combined GDP of the European Union, however, is approximately 9 trillion dollars. The euro is becoming increasingly regarded as the more stable currency, and the Russians and Chinese are beginning to stash euro's as their reserve currency. If we think we can just disregard everyone's views, we are wrong. Money talks, and Europe has a lot of it.

I'd recommend a great book I just read by Clyde Prestowitz. It's called Rogue Nation: American Unilateralism and the Failure of Good Intentions.

Um...the coalition for the war in Iraq is actually quite large. Just because it doesn't contain France and Germany doesn't mean that it's not large...Large...if one means in numbers of soldiers - of which almost all are US soldiers. Any other way one looks at it, small.

As for the rest of the drivel you are spouting - enjoy yourself. Although, in a democracy, it takes a majority to elect someone, pass legislation, etc, it does not take a majority to be right - nor a minority to be wrong.

A little on the irrelevant side, but did you know that Americans spend around $10 billion on pornography each year, roughly equivalent to the government's annual foreign aid spending, and the USA has spent some $19 trillion on 'defence' since World War Two.



Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........pornography. However, European pornography is much better than North American pornography. Kind of like comparison of foriegn policies.

Since being drawn into WWII, the U.S. has almost made a hobby searching for new enemies on a regular basis (fortunately for the Japanese, they became Capitalists and are now embraced by American consumers). North Korea, U.S.S.R., China (not an enemy but none-the-less, under a watchful eye), Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, etc. you get the point.

In a nut shell, if you're not with them, you're against them.

I'm positive we Canadians are next. Geographically, and economically, we'd be an easy victory to boost public moral. This will happen when we legalize pot and same-sex marriages nationwide.

Sounds to me that you are so blind from partisanship that you cannot see the truth in someone else's argument.It is very difficult to see a truth that is not there.

LoL, the world will stop caring what America has to say when it has no bombs. Until then, the world revolves around the US.

Shut the hell up before you get us into another war!

Um...the coalition for the war in Iraq is actually quite large. Just because it doesn't contain France and Germany doesn't mean that it's not large...
of course, if you consider 20 soldier a force, many forces are in the coalition. Still, 70% of the world was against that war. Which is what is important. And colchus, thx for letting me know you are not a sarcastic guy; I was wondering too
:rolleyes:

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........pornography. However, European pornography is much better than North American pornography. Kind of like comparison of foriegn policies.

Since being drawn into WWII, the U.S. has almost made a hobby searching for new enemies on a regular basis (fortunately for the Japanese, they became Capitalists and are now embraced by American consumers). North Korea, U.S.S.R., China (not an enemy but none-the-less, under a watchful eye), Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, etc. you get the point.

In a nut shell, if you're not with them, you're against them.

I'm positive we Canadians are next. Geographically, and economically, we'd be an easy victory to boost public moral. This will happen when we legalize pot and same-sex marriages nationwide.
Wait a minute. I have stayed out of the discussion so far in order to maintain a civil atmosphere, but I will NOT have you insult the quality of my nation's pornography. Our pornography is the best in the world. Much better than those hard-faced hairy European porn stars. I own porn from many countries. I am a huge fan of pornography. In the field of Porn, the USA Rules!!!

Originally Posted by Cheese and ice cream
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey P
I'm curious about what people in other countries think.


I voted for more good than bad. When I was younger I used to think how nice it is to live in the US, the culture, the freedom, the technology, rock and roll, and woodstock... but that was before. Then I learned of the guns, wars, racisms and many more bad things in the US. Its like you have to own a gun just to feel secure. I know that there are still a lot of good in the US but now I'm feeling quite comfortable where I am... BTW, I'm from the Philippines...

wow u must be very ignorant huh, so as all u other f****** who dnt know any,havent lived, and dnt understand anything about the US, im american... all this bull about bush loving wars and the US abusing power is a load of s***, especially ppl who say we r in iraq for oil, i have one thing to say!we r liberating and helping the iraqi ppl u dumbasses! there has been many violence and some civilian deaths but i dnt see anyone in Europe going to the terrorists and talking them in to stoping their ways, if u have then u guys r correct but for now stfu,

I see you people as bloodthisty barbarians who love death and suffering more then anything in life. (sarcasm... a little... not that much).
I remember talking to my mother about bush´s re-election.
*dialog translated from portuguese*
"mom, you know what happened tonight?"
"what?"
"bush won in the US"
"WHAT?!"
"Yeah, they voted for him again..."
"But... but... how...?"
"I don´t know mom, those people are crazy... I don´t know"
"They like wars... it´s what they want..."
"Yeah..."
"...are you serious?"
"I am!"
"How could they do it?"
"I don´t know, mom, I think they like war, I don´t know."
"Well, we have our problems here, let´s focus on that and pray that they don´t decide to blow up the world..."
"Yeah..."

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. Both major candidates supported the Iraq war. Kerry wanted to send more troops and some how magically grow the coalition. Combined, the two men got 99% of the vote. So, you could read that as 99% support for war, or understand that US presidential elections are shams. It may be true that Americans like war, but you can't necessarily read that from the election results.

There's also good chance that Bush cheated. We have no oversight of the voting in some states.


WOHOOO! FOUR MORE WARS!! FOUR MORE WARS!!

/sorry

The thing to bear in mind about currency markets is, it's not just the relative value of currencies that is important, but how widely they are held. The only thing that has been keeping the US economy from decline since the 1970s is the dollar's status as the international reserve currency, backed by oil in much the same way as it and other currencies were backed by gold. People having lots of dollars, spending them and buying Treasuries, that's good for the US economy.

The dollar is falling, and the Euro being forced up is not good for Europe right now...but the Euro is making inroads into foreign-held currency reserves, because Europe is seen as a stable entity capable of backing a stable currency fit for reserve status, and numerous oil-exporting countries, from Russia to SE Asia to the ME Gulf are making moves towards pricing oil in Euros. Also, America's new taste for military adventures is raising a question mark over its reliability and true committment to international stability. Not to mention the fact that pricing oil in depreciating dollars hurts your profits, ability to invest in new energy infrastructure and ultimately your competitiveness.

Thus the US is walking a very fine line, as there comes a point when the dollar's fall in value serves not to reduce the apparent size of the trade deficit, but becomes subject to a feedback mechanism which destroys its confidence and drives it further down.

Or to put it more starkly, the dollar is only worth something so long as the world is confident that the US is conductive to global stability, and sees no need to back a secondary reserve currency. The weaker dollar hurting European economies is very much a short-term phenomenon, in the long term, it places Europe at a significant advantage, and could even result in the implosion of the US economy, depending on how unpleasant the US decides to be next.

Originally Posted by Cheese and ice cream
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey P
I'm curious about what people in other countries think.


I voted for more good than bad. When I was younger I used to think how nice it is to live in the US, the culture, the freedom, the technology, rock and roll, and woodstock... but that was before. Then I learned of the guns, wars, racisms and many more bad things in the US. Its like you have to own a gun just to feel secure. I know that there are still a lot of good in the US but now I'm feeling quite comfortable where I am... BTW, I'm from the Philippines...

wow u must be very ignorant huh, so as all u other f****** who dnt know any,havent lived, and dnt understand anything about the US, im american... all this bull about bush loving wars and the US abusing power is a load of s***, especially ppl who say we r in iraq for oil, i have one thing to say!we r liberating and helping the iraqi ppl u dumbasses! there has been many violence and some civilian deaths but i dnt see anyone in Europe going to the terrorists and talking them in to stoping their ways, if u have then u guys r correct but for now stfu,

You do know that the UK is in Europe, right?

And darling, calm down. It's about time the US got it's own version of this thread... look back through the thread pages... France, Canada and England have already been done.

You do know that the UK is in Europe, right?

And darling, calm down. It's about time the US got it's own version of this thread... look back through the thread pages... France, Canada and England have already been done.

Actually, this thread has also been done (in various forms) many times before.

wow u must be very ignorant huh, so as all u other f****** who dnt know any,havent lived, and dnt understand anything about the US, im american... all this bull about bush loving wars and the US abusing power is a load of s***, especially ppl who say we r in iraq for oil, i have one thing to say!we r liberating and helping the iraqi ppl u dumbasses! there has been many violence and some civilian deaths but i dnt see anyone in Europe going to the terrorists and talking them in to stoping their ways, if u have then u guys r correct but for now stfu,

What about the environment problem? You know, other countries are making sacrifices, but the US, the biggest pollution per aid in the world, and one of the worst per GDP unit of developped countries, isn't willing to do anything about it. The United Nations represent the hope of a world were force does not make right, but the USA are willingly destroying its credibility.

about the war in Iraq... I agree with you, except you have been warned that it would be a very difficult thing to do, and each of the problem that are happening now - nationalism, fanatism, difficulties in "winning the peace"... - have been explained before the war even started by european countries. Now you went there and suffer it... we told you ;)

About the terrorists, the goal is not to speak to the terrorists themselves but to have a cooperation with local arab governments and to maintain a good opinion of the west for muslims. But the US aggressive policy doesn't allow this

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. Both major candidates supported the Iraq war. Kerry wanted to send more troops and some how magically grow the coalition. Combined, the two men got 99% of the vote. So, you could read that as 99% support for war, or understand that US presidential elections are shams. It may be true that Americans like war, but you can't necessarily read that from the election results.

There's also good chance that Bush cheated. We have no oversight of the voting in some states.


WOHOOO! FOUR MORE WARS!! FOUR MORE WARS!!

/sorry

bush cheated???that actually funny,though everyone knows Kerry gave up ohio
im sry if i was a bit to angry but i h8 it when ppl start exxagerating and make-up things bout the US, and i have notin against the UN, i just used Europe as a quick example (no offense to anyone), though i wish an american like me would speak up and support me,oh yeah wth is "WOHOOO! FOUR MORE WARS!! FOUR MORE WARS!!" suppoed to me...lol

Actually, this thread has also been done (in various forms) many times before.

I would have assumed so since the forums seem to be so active but as you can see, I have a measley post number of 7, LoL. Basically I was just trying to say that instead of being all bitchy like s/he was, s/he could have done something a little more constructive. I mean, the thread is for opinions on the USA... Whether bias, intelligent, obscured, ignorant or uninformed... that's what people are giving. I didn't appreciate being called a dumbass or being told to 'stfu' really, which was my reason for replying. My bad.

What about the environment problem? You know, other countries are making sacrifices, but the US, the biggest pollution per aid in the world, and one of the worst per GDP unit of developped countries, isn't willing to do anything about it. The United Nations represent the hope of a world were force does not make right, but the USA are willingly destroying its credibility.

about the war in Iraq... I agree with you, except you have been warned that it would be a very difficult thing to do, and each of the problem that are happening now - nationalism, fanatism, difficulties in "winning the peace"... - have been explained before the war even started by european countries. Now you went there and suffer it... we told you ;)

About the terrorists, the goal is not to speak to the terrorists themselves but to have a cooperation with local arab governments and to maintain a good opinion of the west for muslims. But the US aggressive policy doesn't allow this
im glad that finally u point out somtin bad without egxagerating it or making it offense or anti-american, though the pollution issue was kinda random :confused:

I would have assumed so since the forums seem to be so active but as you can see, I have a measley post number of 7, LoL. Basically I was just trying to say that instead of being all bitchy like s/he was, s/he could have done something a little more constructive. I mean, the thread is for opinions on the USA... Whether bias, intelligent, obscured, ignorant or uninformed... that's what people are giving. I didn't appreciate being called a dumbass or being told to 'stfu' really, which was my reason for replying. My bad.

Don't worry about it. After a year of being here, I'm mostly used to it, and you'll probably get used to being called a dumbass for posting your opinion. It happens alot around here, unfortunately. I wish people would attack arguments, not people. Unless of course we're discussing a person's character, or somesuch. Then it would make more sense to do so.

I should begin by saying I am against what my country is doing to Iraq, and I am totally against the idea of another four years under Bush. Although I like living in the U.S., I have lived in two other countries, travel quite often, and would prefer to live in Europe. Americans due to the geographical isolation, size, and superpower status, do tend to be ignorant of the rest of the world.

People from other parts of the world who take such pleasure in calling Americans fat and stupid, do not diminish me in any way, they just prove that there are hateful, oversimplistic people everywhere.

Although I enjoy immensely my travels in Europe, I would never do like some of my fellow Americans now do and adopt an inferiority complex that pleads for the "good, noble, and superior Europeans" to like me. I have made some good friends in Europe, but I have also been treated like shit as soon as someone found out I was American. I prefer to judge people individually, based on their deeds.

People from other parts of the world, and in particular Europeans can continue to await the fall of the American Empire, there is no doubt that is truly upon us. However, what we will soon find out, is that whatever fills the power vacuum left by the "evil Americans", will not do much better. And God help us if it is a European country. Lets not forget that Europe has also brought its share of hate, oppresion, and imperialism to the rest of the world.

Remember "you know what" repeats itself.

Don't worry about it. After a year of being here, I'm mostly used to it, and you'll probably get used to being called a dumbass for posting your opinion. It happens alot around here, unfortunately. I wish people would attack arguments, not people. Unless of course we're discussing a person's character, or somesuch. Then it would make more sense to do so.

you have a very great point, i guess i acted like a dumbass when i posted that other thing, but im still arguing bout the subject of this whole thing, im pro america, im american, my desicions arent influenced by my nationality though, i stay tuned in on all this stuff TRUST ME...lol ;)

I should begin by saying I am against what my country is doing to Iraq, and I am totally against the idea of another four years under Bush. Although I like living in the U.S., I have lived in two other countries, travel quite often, and would prefer to live in Europe. Americans due to the geographical isolation, size, and superpower status, do tend to be ignorant of the rest of the world.

People from other parts of the world who take such pleasure in calling Americans fat and stupid, do not diminish me in any way, they just prove that there are hateful, oversimplistic people everywhere.

Although I enjoy immensely my travels in Europe, I would never do like some of my fellow Americans now do and adopt an inferiority complex that pleads for the "good, noble, and superior Europeans" to like me. I have made some good friends in Europe, but I have also been treated like shit as soon as someone found out I was American. I prefer to judge people individually, based on their deeds.

People from other parts of the world, and in particular Europeans can continue to await the fall of the American Empire, there is no doubt that is truly upon us. However, what we will soon find out, is that whatever fills the power vacuum left by the "evil Americans", will not do much better. And God help us if it is a European country. Lets not forget that Europe has also brought its share of hate, oppresion, and imperialism to the rest of the world.

Remember "you know what" repeats itself.

im glad u noted hpow europe (most) has done its share of bad things,like the US but for the rest....no comment.....

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. Both major candidates supported the Iraq war. Kerry wanted to send more troops and some how magically grow the coalition. Combined, the two men got 99% of the vote. So, you could read that as 99% support for war, or understand that US presidential elections are shams. It may be true that Americans like war, but you can't necessarily read that from the election results.

There's also good chance that Bush cheated. We have no oversight of the voting in some states.


WOHOOO! FOUR MORE WARS!! FOUR MORE WARS!!

/sorry


So, you have two candidates and both are pro-war.
Do I have ANY reason to believe that you people are not bloodthirsty barbarians who seek death and suffering above all?

So, you have two candidates and both are pro-war.
Do I have ANY reason to believe that you people are not bloodthirsty barbarians who seek death and suffering above all?
wow u rly dnt understand the meaning of dnt fire...anyway have u tried finding out the reason for this war,AND CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG, the other countries aren't in this for funding and maybe (no offense) they dnt like the terrorists guerrila tactics and dnt want to lose their troops, anyway what country r u from :cool:

Someone needs to stand up for the west in the war on terrorism, I just wish it wasn't the Americans because they will probably not win.

You see America has a BIG arms industry and needs to expend some weapons every 4 or 5 years. They have so much firepower, but no real idea what to do with it. They have lost wars to Vietnam, Somalia and maybe soon Iraq.

For so long now they have fought little cabinet wars - Haiti, Somalia, Grenada, Panama - where there is no organised opposition. Wars that suit the tactics of let the enemy attack you until they run out of ammo and men. And Americans are good at this and in a direct battle will slaughter the enemy. Now involved in Iraq against a well funded enemy with large numbers Arab recruits these tactics do not work, especially as the enemy will refuse to fight directly.

So America which could win the war against terror quite easily, will probably lose the battle for Iraq and give a victory to the terrorists.

Great question! Where are YOU from, sblargh?

Someone needs to stand up for the west in the war on terrorism, I just wish it wasn't the Americans because they will probably not win.

You see America has a BIG arms industry and needs to expend some weapons every 4 or 5 years. They have so much firepower, but no real idea what to do with it. They have lost wars to Vietnam, Somalia and maybe soon Iraq.

For so long now they have fought little cabinet wars - Haiti, Somalia, Grenada, Panama - where there is no organised opposition. Wars that suit the tactics of let the enemy attack you until they run out of ammo and men. And Americans are good at this and in a direct battle will slaughter the enemy. Now involved in Iraq against a well funded enemy with large numbers Arab recruits these tactics do not work, especially as the enemy will refuse to fight directly.

So America which could win the war against terror quite easily, will probably lose the battle for Iraq and give a victory to the terrorists.

ummm can u clarify what u just said plz, rly the US have the war under almost totall cntrl especially since they just "conquered" fallujah from the terrorists, u have some serious rethinking to do.....seriously

I think that the U.S. is much better than most other countries, but it needs far more improvement. Just because something is better doesn't mean it's good. And Bush isn't helping much, anyways.

Umm...so what?

Why does it matter if the rest of the world gets pissed off? What are they going to do about it?

Answer: Nothing...


to answer this simply should the world be hacked off enough with america they will do one simple thing, stop lending them money the american deficit is absoloutly huge and is doing nothing but expanding should other countrys refuse to bail them out the effects will be enormous

I think that the U.S. is much better than most other countries, but it needs far more improvement. Just because something is better doesn't mean it's good. And Bush isn't helping much, anyways.

omg y does everyone h8 bush, is it me or am i noticing that everyone i meet on the web h8 the poor guy, all my friends at my school (in spain) r pro bush and so r their families and friends, i guess u ppl r not american...but it saddens me how ppl r judgin a book by it's cover

to answer this simply should the world be hacked off enough with america they will do one simple thing, stop lending them money the american deficit is absoloutly huge and is doing nothing but expanding should other countrys refuse to bail them out the effects will be enormous

plz plz, i would love to see u prove this

The main problem with America emerged as a result of the end of the Cold War. They are now the world's only superpower and have been abusing that position ever since. They have far to much millitary dominiance. Out of the 190 countries officaly recognised by the UN 130 of them have a US millitary presence. The economic power is fine if it wasnt transmitted into cultural power. We are seing a nation with far to much money being ploughed into its advertising and media, thus swamping every other nation in the world with it and stiffling the creativity of the rest of the world. "Coca Cola" is now the only word regocnised in every language in the world. And then there is the political arrogence of ignoring the UN and refusing to pay the more than a billion dollars of dues they owe them. I personaly think the rest of the world should be allowed to vote in US presidential ellections as it is they who are affected more by the US than the US public themselves. Their news covers barely any outside news as a result there is an unconsious Xenophobia from a cultural lack of understanding of other nations. Its not like they intend to be that way, its simpely a lack of education. Then there is the refusal to teach Vietnam in their history courses despite the fact that they only have 200 years or so of history to teach from.

I think Lady Liberty is Just PMSing being all violent and irrational.Seems every so often America goes on an angry streak (war of 1812, Spanish American war, Bay if Pigs etc) shell come back to her senses soon and apologize, or at least stop ignoring and crushing other nations.






ALL will fear the wrath of the Drunken Mob of DOOM!!!!!!!

I don't hate Bush. I simply believe he has led the U.S. down a bad road(Iraq). He squandered a good opportunity.

I think Lady Liberty is Just PMSing being all violent and irrational.Seems every so often America goes on an angry streak (war of 1812, Spanish American war, Bay if Pigs etc) shell come back to her senses soon and apologize, or at least stop ignoring and crushing other nations.






ALL will fear the wrath of the Drunken Mob of DOOM!!!!!!!

becareful what u say, nt only is it offensive to me and other americans it is irrelevant and makes no sense, u sound like some stupid wannabee communist who h8s america

plz plz, i would love to see u prove this

A third of the American economy is supported by British investment. We could at any time pull you down.

becareful what u say, nt only is it offensive to me and other americans it is irrelevant and makes no sense, u sound like some stupid wannabee communist who h8s america
I actually am and American and love America, my name(the name of my NS nation) was just out of sarcasm. I basicly just saying in a way i thought was an interesting and amusing comparison that America will come to it senses sooner or later regarding foriegn policy.




ALL will fear the wrath of the Drunken mob of doom (this has nothing to do with this post its basicly my signiture)

The main problem with America emerged as a result of the end of the Cold War. They are now the world's only superpower and have been abusing that position ever since. They have far to much millitary dominiance. Out of the 190 countries officaly recognised by the UN 130 of them have a US millitary presence. The economic power is fine if it wasnt transmitted into cultural power. We are seing a nation with far to much money being ploughed into its advertising and media, thus swamping every other nation in the world with it and stiffling the creativity of the rest of the world. "Coca Cola" is now the only word regocnised in every language in the world.

Hi Neo Cannen:

it´s a surprise for me - i think the same ;)

I think outside the USA we see to many different USA´s. One of them could lead to make the world a better place. Another one is making the world a dangerous place. (I am not talking about politicians).

The best for the world and perhaps for the USA would be, if they build at least two nations. One liberal Nation with the capital in San Francisco and a conservative bapstist Nation.


One could also say: I love the USA so much, I would like to have 5 of them ;)

I don't hate Bush. I simply believe he has led the U.S. down a bad road(Iraq). He squandered a good opportunity.

well, there u have an excellent point, we couldve used a whole diffrent approach on this or no approach at all

well done

Hi Neo Cannen:

it´s a surprise for me - i think the same ;)

I think outside the USA we see to many different USA´s. One of them could lead to make the world a better place. Another one is making the world a dangerous place. (I am not talking about politicians).

The best for the world and perhaps for the USA would be, if they build at least two nations. One liberal Nation with the capital in San Francisco and a conservative bapstist Nation.


One could also say: I love the USA so much, I would like to have 5 of them ;)

hey how do u think all this came out of the state...ugh maybe becuase the other countries let it, its not our fault if other countries r taking after the us, maybe ur jealous (jk) but ur complaining for silly reasons anyone

"Hong Apoe]well, there u have an excellent point, we couldve used a whole diffrent approach on this or no approach at all... well done"

I'm sorry, could you clarify?

I actually am and American and love America, my name(the name of my NS nation) was just out of sarcasm. I basicly just saying in a way i thought was an interesting and amusing comparison that America will come to it senses sooner or later regarding foriegn policy.




ALL will fear the wrath of the Drunken mob of doom (this has nothing to do with this post its basicly my signiture)

im glad u explained uraself but for the love of god,plz dnt use Lady Liberty like that again

hey how do u think all this came out of the state...ugh maybe becuase the other countries let it, its not our fault if other countries r taking after the us, maybe ur jealous (jk) but ur complaining for silly reasons anyone


I think the US will fall down like the roman empire - bus faster. The problem is that it seems that the US society is diverging. There ARE different USA´s. And they seem to fight a civil war with words.

omg y does everyone h8 bush, is it me or am i noticing that everyone i meet on the web h8 the poor guy, all my friends at my school (in spain) r pro bush and so r their families and friends, i guess u ppl r not american...but it saddens me how ppl r judgin a book by it's cover

I am an American. I love my country. I can't stand Bush or his foreign or domestic policies. You appear to be a very young person so let me explain. The terrorists who attacked the U.S. were based in Afghanistan. It was recognized by the rest of the world that this was a valid target. Had we stayed the course Bin Laden would now be captured or killed. The U.S. would have been recognized as a powerful but fair Country.
Instead Bush decided that Iraq had to be overthrown without waiting for any real evidence that WMD existed. He said screw anyone who disagrees with what I think. He fished around various inteligence agencies and patched together a crazy quilt of evidence to back up his claim. He used this pieced together evidence and convinced the rest of the congress and many Americans that it was true that WMD existed in Iraq. He then ignored more rational nations who said give the inspectors more time to do their jobs and told them to get out while they still could.
As a result of his actions over 1000 Americans are dead and 10s of 1000s innocent Iraqies are dead. All this for WMD that did not exist. This is arrogance the world has not seen since Hitler. It scares people inside and outside the U.S. that such a person would have such vast power and use it without any concern for the damage it causes.

In addition he took a budget surplus and turned into a huge deficit in less than two years. He also got the Patriot Act passed into law which strips Americans of basic rights that our ancestors died to provide to us.

That is why the U.S. is both feared and loathed in many parts of the world.

A third of the American economy is supported by British investment. We could at any time pull you down.


cheers for sorting this one for me.

although i have to say with our current pm that dosn't look all to likely,ah well i heard he was going to be resigning rather than take another term anyway due to the heart condition and all.

we can only hope that america sees the eror of its ways before we have to step in and take drastic action it would be a pitty to see an area that could be so diverse and beautifull go down that road

i dont hate america just the idiots

I think the US will fall down like the roman empire - bus faster. The problem is that it seems that the US society is diverging. There ARE different USA´s. And they seem to fight a civil war with words.

well i guess u have a point there, but about the falling like the roman empire but faster...im not sure, im thinking "Soviet Union"

Great question! Where are YOU from, sblargh?

Brasil. And thanks for translating the other guy´s l33t language.

I think the US will fall down like the roman empire - bus faster. The problem is that it seems that the US society is diverging. There ARE different USA´s. And they seem to fight a civil war with words.
How long did Rome, in your opinion, take to fall? There's been this sort of partisanism in the USA since the first Jefferson-Adams.

In his poem "Democracy is coming" Cohen wrote that the U.S. is "the home of the best and the worst". I often reflect on this when considering the apalling behaviour of the current regime, and the appalling behaviour of the U.S. govt. towards the rest of the world in general over the last 120 years.

So many dramatic transitions have occurred in the U.S. over the last four decades (since I last lived there), at this point I would characterise it as a brutal, degraded and corrupt police state in an advanced state of decay, and declining rapidly.

The challenge for Canadians and Canada over the next generation is to avoid getting sucked down in the undertow when the Americans go down.

The issue for the rest of the world is how much of the world the Americans will destroy or degrade as they go down. The insensate spasms of destruction they could generate when they finally acknowledge their fall from supremacy could endanger all of us. Thye've got plenty of nukes, and the demonstrated willingness to use them.

The current administration is demonstrating in a way that can't be ignored some of the worst elements of American culture and character. The analogiy some of the PNAC characters have drawn leads them to the characterisation "The New Rome". (Pretty astounding lack of imagination if they can't improve on a brutal slave culture of 2000 years ago). A more accurate analogy would be the Third Reich. If you consider this, the similarities are chilling.

Consider this and then consider the better efforts of Wilson and Roosevelt and Marshall..., the best and the worst.

Which impulse ultimately prevails matters for all of us. Surely it is both a source of shame and a tremendous challenge to be an (rational, principled) American these days....guys, if you don't want to live in the Republic of Gilead, get active!

I am an American. I love my country. I can't stand Bush or his foreign or domestic policies. You appear to be a very young person so let me explain. The terrorists who attacked the U.S. were based in Afghanistan. It was recognized by the rest of the world that this was a valid target. Had we stayed the course Bin Laden would now be captured or killed. The U.S. would have been recognized as a powerful but fair Country.
Instead Bush decided that Iraq had to be overthrown without waiting for any real evidence that WMD existed. He said screw anyone who disagrees with what I think. He fished around various inteligence agencies and patched together a crazy quilt of evidence to back up his claim. He used this pieced together evidence and convinced the rest of the congress and many Americans that it was true that WMD existed in Iraq. He then ignored more rational nations who said give the inspectors more time to do their jobs and told them to get out while they still could.
As a result of his actions over 1000 Americans are dead and 10s of 1000s innocent Iraqies are dead. All this for WMD that did not exist. This is arrogance the world has not seen since Hitler. It scares people inside and outside the U.S. that such a person would have such vast power and use it without any concern for the damage it causes.

In addition he took a budget surplus and turned into a huge deficit in less than two years. He also got the Patriot Act passed into law which strips Americans of basic rights that our ancestors died to provide to us.

That is why the U.S. is both feared and loathed in many parts of the world.

wow, thnx i never knew,im 13 though, i guess that pretty young, but still america itself is a very strong country

I am presently an Amer-i-can that Amer-i-can't get what the hell the rest of the country is on. IS THE WHOLE USA ON CRAZY PILLS!?.
Anyone who would like to join my club is more than welcome.
FEPoA
Future Ex-Patriots of America
PEACE...in the middle east!

what can u clear that for me

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. Both major candidates supported the Iraq war. Kerry wanted to send more troops and some how magically grow the coalition. Combined, the two men got 99% of the vote. So, you could read that as 99% support for war, or understand that US presidential elections are shams. It may be true that Americans like war, but you can't necessarily read that from the election results.

There's also good chance that Bush cheated. We have no oversight of the voting in some states.


WOHOOO! FOUR MORE WARS!! FOUR MORE WARS!!

/sorry

Since both men supported continued involvement in Iraq. That made it a non issue for a lot of people. I believe Bush's win had more to do with Bush's team running a more focused and effective smear campaign against Kerry than Kerry could muster against Bush. It just shows how bad Kerry's campaign was since he could not defeat a marginally popular president with a history of bad decision making and an economy in the crapper. A lot of people looked at their decision as do I vote for dumb or do I vote for dumber. And then had to guess which was which.

Since both men supported continued involvement in Iraq. That made it a non issue for a lot of people. I believe Bush's win had more to do with Bush's team running a more focused and effective smear campaign against Kerry than Kerry could muster against Bush. It just shows how bad Kerry's campaign was since he could not defeat a marginally popular president with a history of bad decision making and an economy in the crapper. A lot of people looked at their decision as do I vote for dumb or do I vote for dumber. And then had to guess which was which.
The economy is not in the crapper, especially relative to the Eurozone.

im glad that finally u point out somtin bad without egxagerating it or making it offense or anti-american, though the pollution issue was kinda random :confused:
The pollution issue was just here because it is one of my main problems with the USA. If there was only Iraq, I think I would get over it, since there were actually some good arguments to support it (still less than good arguments opposing it ;)). This is what justifies my "more bad than good" vote.

Since both men supported continued involvement in Iraq. That made it a non issue for a lot of people. I believe Bush's win had more to do with Bush's team running a more focused and effective smear campaign against Kerry than Kerry could muster against Bush. It just shows how bad Kerry's campaign was since he could not defeat a marginally popular president with a history of bad decision making and an economy in the crapper. A lot of people looked at their decision as do I vote for dumb or do I vote for dumber. And then had to guess which was which.


the problem is that, now the troops are there, and it would be very hard to just tell the Iraqis "ok, good luck" and leave the country; the international image of the USA is terrible enough right now. The main difference is that Kerry would not have started the war!

edit - i am a native born us citizen
I'm sorry. Please allow me to pay your airfare to someplace like, say, France.

Originally Posted by Neo Cannen
A third of the American economy is supported by British investment. We could at any time pull you down.

Wishful thinking. No it is not. In either event, investment goes both ways.

Even if you could pull investment for no reason, it would not bring the American economy down to any level of ruin. And any adverse effect of doing so would harm your country, and the world in general, as well.

I'm sorry. Please allow me to pay your airfare to someplace like, say, France.Nice offer. Please allow me to ignore you.

anti-french americans are really funny. They don't want to admit most of the world is against them, so they say "damn frenchies!!", like france is the origin of all evil in the world. Guys, use your brains and realize that you are lying to yourselves. :rolleyes:

Wishful thinking. No it is not. In either event, investment goes both ways.

Even if you could pull investment for no reason, it would not bring the American economy down to any level of ruin. And any adverse effect of doing so would harm your country, and the world in general, as well.

America is currently importing a huge amount. But exporting very little, thus creating ahude trade deficit. But you have to remember, when the consumer (America) is gone, where the rest of the world going to sell their products?

the problem is that, now the troops are there, and it would be very hard to just tell the Iraqis "ok, good luck" and leave the country; the international image of the USA is terrible enough right now. The main difference is that Kerry would not have started the war!

So true. And would have been less likely to try to start another. Unfortunately, most people don't seem to rationalize like that.

The economy is not in the crapper, especially relative to the Eurozone.

Don't know much about the Eurozone friend, but a trillion dollars owed to foriegn investors can't be good, especially when we had a budget surplus before Bush was in office. Tax relief for the wealth at a time when a record number of Americans are below poverty level is a disgrace.

The USA is none of these things. It is the greatest lie ever told. Did you honestly think something so absurd could actually exist?

LOL! Geinus.

Refused Party Program, you've done it again!!

wow, thnx i never knew,im 13 though, i guess that pretty young, but still america itself is a very strong country

My best advise is to remember every story has two sides. Don't take my work for it or anyone elses. Listen to both sides do some research and the truth ussually will become clear if you leave your mind open.

And yes America is the strongest country on earth right now. With great strength comes great responsibility. We need leaders with wisdom who act in the best interest of not only the U.S. but in the best interest and in PARTNERSHIP with the rest of the civilized world. I am saddened to say no such leader is on the horizon.

We Americans really aren't that terrible. Our president just sucks.

I think the USA is a country that is being lead in thr wrong direction and i think that if John Kerry was president we would have a better life and i think that crime would be lowered and we would have better gun control

Don't forget the fact that american militarism/imperialism did not start with Bush. Examples:

1898 SPANISH-AMERICAN WAR: US invaded, occupied, and took control of Cuba, the Philippines, Puerto Rico, and other Spansih island colonies in the Pacific
1898 Hawaii: annexed by force
1898-1902 Cuba: US occupation following Spanish-American War
1898-1902 Philippines: 70,000 US troops fought insurrectionists led by Emilio Aguinaldo and occupied the islands until 1946, when Philippine independence granted
1900 China: troops from the US and other nations put down the Boxer Rebellion
1904-1906 Morocco: US Marine interventions
1904-1999 Panama: permanent US military bases protected US-controlled Panama Canal Zone
1907-1941 Dominican Republic: US military occupations 1905 to 1907; 1912; 1914; and 1916 to 1924; US controlled government finances 1905 to 1941
1906-1922 Cuba: US military ran the government from 1906 to 1909; occupied by US troops in 1912, and 1917 to 1922
1912-1925 Nicaragua: US military occupation 1909 to 1933, and controlled government finances from 1910 to 1924
1914-1917 Mexico: US military intervention during revolutionary turmoil; Marines sent to Tampico and Vera Cruz in 1914; from 1916 to1917, 6,000 US cavalry under Gen John Pershing clashed with troops of Caranza’s Mexican army
1915-1934 Haiti: US Marine occupation and US control of government finances
1917-1918 WORLD WAR I
1918-1920 Russia: US sent 15,000 troops to Murmansk, Archangel, and Vladivostok as part of an Allied force in opposition to the Bolsheviks
1941-1945 WORLD WAR II Americans did not enter the war before they themselves were attacked, while the earlier allies (France and England) joined the war in support of Poland immedietly (in political terms).
China, 1945-49:
Intervened in a civil war, taking the side of Chiang Kai-shek against the Communists, even though the latter had been a much closer ally of the United States in the world war. The U.S. used defeated Japanese soldiers to fight for its side. The Communists forced Chiang to flee to Taiwan in 1949.

1945-1949 Korea: post-War II US occupation
1945-1954 Germany: post-War II US occupation
1945-1957 Japan: post-War II US occupation
1947-48: Italy: Interfered in elections to keep communist party from winning. Used millions of dollars for decades after to intervene in Italian elections.
1947-49: Greece: Intervened in civil war, taking the side of the neo-fascists against the left, which had fought the Nazi's during WW2. Neo-fascists won, instituting a brutal regime.
194?-53: Philippines: U.S. Military fought against leftist forces, while the leftist forces fought the Japanese. After the war, the U.S. defeated them, installing puppet presidents, culminating in the dictatorship of Ferdinand Marcos.
1950-1953 KOREAN WAR (undeclared): After World War II, the United States suppressed the popular progressive forces in favor of the conservatives who had collaborated with the Japanese. This led to a long era of corrupt, reactionary, and brutal governments.
1949-53: Albania: The U.S. and Britain tried unsuccessfully to overthrow the communist government and install a new one that would have been pro-Western and composed largely of monarchists and collaborators with Italian fascists and Nazis.
1953: Iran: Prime Minister overthrown by joint US/British operation. Prime minister elected by large majority, decided to nationalize a british-owned oil company. The coup led to the Shah being a dictator, leading to 25 years of repression and torture.
1954 Guatemala: CIA-trained exiles overthrew the democratically elected socialist government, leading to 40 years of brutality, with over 100 000 dead!
1955-73: Cambodia: Assassination plots, the infamous Nixon/Kissinger secret "carpet bombings" of 1969-70, coup in 1970. Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge took power after 5 years. Brutality. United states supported Pol Pot.
1957-58: Indonesia: Attempts to assassinate their leader, blackmail attempts, attempted military coup.
1958 Lebanon: 5,000 US Marines sent to aid President Chamoun government
1961 Cuba: 1,400 CIA-trained exiles landed at Bay and Pigs and were defeated
1961: Congo/Zaire: Congo's Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba (Communist) assassinated.
1961-64: Brazil: Miliary coup supported by the US.
1964-1973 VIETNAM WAR (undeclared): US troops invaded Vietnam and Cambodia

1965 Dominican Republic: 20,000 US Marines occupied the country and installed a pro-American government
1975 Cambodia: US Marines attacked Tang Island to free merchant ship Mayaguez
1979-92: Afghanistan: US supported war against a socially forward goverment (equal rights for women) which was backed by the USSR. Who was placed in the position of power afterwards? The Taliban.
1982-1984 Lebanon: US contributed troops to UN peace keeping force
1983 Grenada: 1,900 US Marines invaded and deposed the existing government
1984 Nicaragua: CIA secretly mined Nicaraguan harbors
1986 Libya: US bombed the capital at Tripoli
1989-1990 Panama: US invasion force of 24,000 overthrew President Noriega
1991 GULF WAR (undeclared): US-led invasion of Iraq involved 425,00 US troops
1994-1995 Somalia: US contributed troops to UN peace keeping force
1994-- Haiti: US occupation and subsequent contribution of 2,400 troops to a UN peace keeping force
1995-- Bosnia-Herzegovina and Macedonia: US contributed 20,000 troops to UN peace keeping force
1999-- Yugoslavia: US participated in NATO actions against Yugoslavia
1999-- East Timor: US contriubuted a small number of support personel to the UN peace-keeping force


Remember, the greater number of these (And just about all of those in latin america) was against democratically elected goverments, because they opposed american trade interests. :(

Check out the following, written by a Canadian journalist:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
it was the Americans who propped it up, and their
reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars! into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that
is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines except Russia fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find
men on the moon -! not once, but several times -
and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India
were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
me even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of
those."

Stand proud, America!

Much of this is true, but some slightly irritating odd things (I know I am nit-picking)


Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.

Yep. No doubt about it. He should also add a lot of other countries, like Norway (My country :)), Denmark, Poland, or actually just about every country in Europe which did not get support from the USSR (The USSR had a rule that if you wanted aid from them, you should recieve none from the US).
What is not mentioned, is that the US demanded trade laws being changed, in favour of free trade, which the US (As the only major economy not damaged by the war) earned enormously on, which led to its rise as a superpower.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that
is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines except Russia fly American Planes?

The world's two biggest airplanes are russian, and in use. They are cargo carriers, not passenger jets.
Second largest airplane-engine designer (currently a supernational, but originated in Europe) is Rolls Royce.
Eurofighter can also be mentioned.

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles.

You talk about American technocracy, and you find
men on the moon -! not once, but several times -
and safely home again.

Other countries (Read ESA/Europe) have put equipment on the moon, but not men. The ISS, man's greatest achievement in space, is international. Chinese space program on it's way up.


You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.

Most other countries with free press do the same.


When the railways of France, Germany and India
were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
who rebuilt them.

This I genuinely would like to hear more about.
(READ: No sarcasm intended).

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
me even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Several countries have offered help during disasters, but the US has always turned down the offers, in the same way the USSR turned down US offers.


Sorry for the nitpick, I'm not as anti-american as I sound, I'm just an internationalist (Anti-nationalist). And I am definately not stating that my country is better (Even though<Gloat> the UN has stated it's the world's best country to live in having beaten Canada which used to win before</Gloat>.