NationStates Jolt Archive

If Hitler killed gays and hated them, that means he was a homophobe! Well, if you hate them, you're a homophobe! Do you really want to have that in common with Adolf Hitler? I know I don't. I like communism too, because Hitler hated it. I've converted to Judaism because Hitler hated them. I will never go bald or have a bad haircut, because Hitler had one. Shoes? Clothes? Nope, Hitler had them. As we speak I'm trying to shed my skin and any connection to them human race, because he was human. I don't want to eat food or drink water, because he did.

I'm just kidding about all that. A stupid friend of mine did bring up that being against gays is like being Hitler, so I thought it would be funny to write this.

FYI: I'm not against gays, or democracy, or those other things. This is just a joke, point out pointless arguments some dumb people use to rationalize things.

FYI: I'm not against gays, or democracy, or those other things. This is just a joke.

Well you must be against something. Religion? No, that's a little unoriginal. Stupid joke threads? No, we've been doing those to death lately. Aha! Kittens?

JUST WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU GOT AGAINST KITTENS?!

If Hitler killed gays and hated them, that means he was a homophobe! Well, if you hate them, you're a homophobe! Do you really want to have that in common with Adolf Hitler? I know I don't. I like communism too, because Hitler hated it. I've converted to Judaism because Hitler hated them. I will never go bald or have a bad haircut, because Hitler had one. Shoes? Clothes? Nope, Hitler had them. As we speak I'm trying to shed my skin and any connection to them human race, because he was human. I don't want to eat food or drink water, because he did.

I'm just kidding about all that. A stupid friend of mine did bring up that being against gays is like being Hitler, so I thought it would be funny to write this.

FYI: I'm not against gays, or democracy, or those other things. This is just a joke.

What are going for here? I'm confused.

You know, Hitler was a rent boy in his teens... Might have truamatised him to be the symbol of pure evil and hatred that he became.

Hitler was also a vegetarian (albeit an undisciplined one) and an admant anti-smoking advocate.

It'd be so much easier if there was a wide variety of pictures showing Hitler with kittens and other fluffy animals, being friendly and healing the sick. Then 'zOMG U IS HITL0R!' would not be such a popular knee-jerk reaction by supposedly enlighted people whom you happen to disagree with.

I thought there were reports saying that Hitler was in fact gay himself.

Hitler was for:
Abortion, capital punishment, censorship, christianity, eugenics, euthanasia, genocide, gun control, Leni Riefenstahl films, racial purity, vegetarianism

Hitler was against:
Atheism, capitalism, communism, "degenerate" art, democracy, feminism, freemasonry, gypsies, homosexuals, jehova's wittnesses, jews, labor unions, miscegenation, nudism, pacifism, Poles, pornography, prostitution, psychoanalysis, slavs, smoking

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/nazi/adolf-hitler/
Re: Vegetarianism,But truth be told, he wasn't actually much of a vegetarian... or at least, not a principled one. Hitler promoted the myth that he was following a healthy regimen, insisting that the ideal man did not consume meat. But this was probably just a rationalization, as he himself could not digest meat without suffering from excruciating stomach cramps and embarrassing flatulence. Nevertheless Hitler's diet included the occasional serving of Bavarian sausage, liver dumpling, caviar, ham, or wild game.

doesn't anyone else think its a bit wierd hitler thought the perfect man was tall, blond and blue eyed when he himself was a short fat brown haired brown eyed idiot, and he seemed to think alot of himself........strange

oh, but i have to give him credit for fanta, it was his fault it was invented and i do love that drink

Hitler also liked running countries! that mean all of us are neo-Nazis! I think i better go shoot myself in the head, because people who think they're better than everyone are subhuman and shouldn't be allowed to live! :gundge: :mp5: :sniper:

doesn't anyone else think its a bit wierd hitler thought the perfect man was tall, blond and blue eyed when he himself was a short fat brown haired brown eyed idiot, and he seemed to think alot of himself........strangeIt's not as if nazism, like any other true -ism, needs any logic. For even more fun, Heinrich Himmler (the leader of the SS) was most certainly a homosexual, in addition to being a brown-haired, brown-eyed, small-statured weakling.

Hitler was for:
Abortion, capital punishment, censorship, christianity, eugenics, euthanasia, genocide, gun control, Leni Riefenstahl films, racial purity, vegetarianism

Hitler was against:
Atheism, capitalism, communism, "degenerate" art, democracy, feminism, freemasonry, gypsies, homosexuals, jehova's wittnesses, jews, labor unions, miscegenation, nudism, pacifism, Poles, pornography, prostitution, psychoanalysis, slavs, smoking

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/nazi/adolf-hitler/
Re: Vegetarianism,

he was against catholics as well

doesn't anyone else think its a bit wierd hitler thought the perfect man was tall, blond and blue eyed when he himself was a short fat brown haired brown eyed idiot, and he seemed to think alot of himself........strange

It's the same twisted genious that allowed stalin to live in amazing palaces during his stay atop the USSR while convincing his suffering people that they were all equal in communism.

communism- such a good idea in theory...................shame people are so corrupt

Hitler was also a vegetarian (albeit an undisciplined one) and an admant anti-smoking advocate.

his doctor ordered him to be a vegetarian.

he didn't listen very well.

Yeah Hitler was gay cause there are reports he bummed his cousin. So he was everything he hated.

We can surely blame the Homocaust on gay Hitler.

We can surely blame the Homocaust on gay Hitler.
Sure we CAN we have

I CAN blame it on you too see :p

If Hitler killed gays and hated them, that means he was a homophobe! Well, if you hate them, you're a homophobe! Do you really want to have that in common with Adolf Hitler? I know I don't. I like communism too, because Hitler hated it. I've converted to Judaism because Hitler hated them. I will never go bald or have a bad haircut, because Hitler had one. Shoes? Clothes? Nope, Hitler had them. As we speak I'm trying to shed my skin and any connection to them human race, because he was human. I don't want to eat food or drink water, because he did.

I'm just kidding about all that. A stupid friend of mine did bring up that being against gays is like being Hitler, so I thought it would be funny to write this.

FYI: I'm not against gays, or democracy, or those other things. This is just a joke, point out pointless arguments some dumb people use to rationalize things.

Pretty useless of you. What other nonsense do you have to waste our time?

Pretty useless of you. What other nonsense do you have to waste our time?
Your nonsense on posting that his post was nonsense

I heard Hitler was male, that's why I plan on having a sex change.

Ernst Röhm was gay. And he was the head of the SA. He wasn't killed for beeing gay but because he was a threat to Hitlers own position. Himmler on the otherhand was a homophobe. I think Hitler didn't realy care as long as they boinked Aryans. He also was fond of cake.

Hitler was for:
Abortion, capital punishment, censorship, christianity, eugenics, euthanasia, genocide, gun control, Leni Riefenstahl films, racial purity, vegetarianism

Hitler was against:
Atheism, capitalism, communism, "degenerate" art, democracy, feminism, freemasonry, gypsies, homosexuals, jehova's wittnesses, jews , labor unions, miscegenation, nudism, pacifism, Poles, pornography, prostitution, psychoanalysis, slavs, smoking

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/nazi/adolf-hitler/
Re: Vegetarianism,

Don't insult Christians by saying Hitler was for Christianity..... he was a
Monster and I won't stand by while you try to make him look good at
Christs expense! The Jews are Gods chosen people according to the Bible....
he tried to exterminate them .... I dare say that friends like Hitler are no friends at all!!

If Hitler killed gays and hated them, that means he was a homophobe! Well, if you hate them, you're a homophobe! Do you really want to have that in common with Adolf Hitler? I know I don't. I like communism too, because Hitler hated it. I've converted to Judaism because Hitler hated them. I will never go bald or have a bad haircut, because Hitler had one. Shoes? Clothes? Nope, Hitler had them. As we speak I'm trying to shed my skin and any connection to them human race, because he was human. I don't want to eat food or drink water, because he did.

I'm just kidding about all that. A stupid friend of mine did bring up that being against gays is like being Hitler, so I thought it would be funny to write this.

FYI: I'm not against gays, or democracy, or those other things. This is just a joke, point out pointless arguments some dumb people use to rationalize things.

You know, when I read the first part of this I thought you were serious, and was about to make the same rediculous arguments you did. I'm glad to see that my logic isn't unique to myself alone! :)

Pretty useless of you. What other nonsense do you have to waste our time?

I hate BlindLiberals, but this was a pretty useless thread.

Don't insult Christians by saying Hitler was for Christianity..... he was a
Monster and I won't stand by while you try to make him look good at
Christs expense! The Jews are Gods chosen people according to the Bible....
he tried to exterminate them .... I dare say that friends like Hitler are
completely unwelcome in the House of the Lord.

Hmmm.... I thought God was all-forgiving? Isn't that in the Bible too?

But was he against Kittens?

I hate BlindLiberals, but this was a pretty useless thread.I disagree. I think it's extremely important that we know what Hitler liked and disliked, so we can strive to be the opposite of him. In fact, I refuse to ever pick up a pencil or paint again, because Hitler was an artist. That's why I stuffed some paintings in my freezer. I'd would've burnt them, but that's what Hitler would've done, and we don't want to be like Hitler.

But was he against Kittens?

Oh most definitely:

From Revelations 10:34-36 - And the little furry ones that sit in the corner looking cute shall be smote from the earth, with lots of smitey smiting, and flame and stuff.

But was he against Kittens?
He was more of a dog person.

As for Hitler being homosexual... he would have been to an extent but then everybody is actually bi-sexual it's a question of extents. But as being homosexual in the traditional terminology, no he was quite heterosexual the only evidence which points otherwise is his relationship with Albert Speer, which quite concievably had nothing to do with 'homoeroticism' as the historians who theorised this idea called it.

As for Himmler being homosexual... err no... the man was a romantic and a very efficent organiser but he was no homosexual, since he despised Rohm for that. Which is why he killed his former boss, with Hitler's endorsement.

Hitler was for Christianities Dogmatic form (Catholic style), but he didn't like actual Christian Theological teachings, no. However, he maintained he was a Christian to the end, which is something of a hypocracy but then who isn't hypocritical?

The Jews are the Jews... they are a Religion, they are God's chosen people to themselves, whilst Christians are God's chosen people to themselves and Muslims are God's chosen people to themselves...

Hitler was in fact a very clever man in a lot of ways (politically) but he did rather over estimate his ability in the military sphere. Besides, in my opinion he wasn't all that bad... remeber lots of little facts get skipped over by most people when talking about Nazi Germany i.e. where a lot of modern tech comes from, 'aryanised' Jews, Zionism etc.

Don't insult Christians by saying Hitler was for Christianity..... he was a
Monster and I won't stand by while you try to make him look good at
Christs expense! The Jews are Gods chosen people according to the Bible....
he tried to exterminate them .... I dare say that friends like Hitler are no friends at all!![Underlining mine]
Woah. You totally caught me. I was so trying to make Hitler look good. Umm, yeah.

doesn't anyone else think its a bit wierd hitler thought the perfect man was tall, blond and blue eyed when he himself was a short fat brown haired brown eyed idiot, and he seemed to think alot of himself........strange

Hitler was blue eyed, and he didn't literally think that "blond and blue eyed" was the superior thing, that is only the most representative part of the "übermenschen" as he and many called the Aryan race in Germany. He said that the Aryan Race (Whether or not blond and blue eyed) was meant to rule the others, not only because of beauty, but because of "superior intellect" (so far, european jews are the smartest people with an AVG IQ of 120, followed by the Asians with 110), and because of "superior physical strength" (Most of the best sportsmen of yesterday and today are/were black). But all that's why the Third Reich was involved in Eugenics. Someone in another post put that hitler was against abortion, but that's not true either, since it was prohibited. (Example: Some nazi german "100% aryan studs" had the mission to fertilize the women "descendant from vikings" in occupied norway, and if they aborted they were harshly penalized).

Hitler was for:
Abortion, capital punishment, censorship, christianity, eugenics, euthanasia, genocide, gun control, Leni Riefenstahl films, racial purity, vegetarianism

Hitler was against:
Atheism, capitalism, communism, "degenerate" art, democracy, feminism, freemasonry, gypsies, homosexuals, jehova's wittnesses, jews, labor unions, miscegenation, nudism, pacifism, Poles, pornography, prostitution, psychoanalysis, slavs, smoking

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/nazi/adolf-hitler/
Re: Vegetarianism,

Correction: He was against abortion, as I posted above and example for that. There were even Nazi Prices for the women that had many 100% aryan children.

Hitler was blue eyed
Exactly. And he was dark, reddish, chestnut blonde.

Correction: He was against abortion, as I posted above and example for that.
Big deal. Everyone was against abortion in those days. Not just Hitler.
There were even Nazi Prices for the women that had many 100% aryan children.
You were entitled to the mother cross when you had 3 or more children.
He also invented child support.

Yiddnland:
He was against abortion for Aryans. He was for abortion for non-Aryans. Non-Aryans are a larger group of people. On average, then, it's more sensible to say he was pro-abortion. In any case, I think most pro-lifers would say someone who would like to force the majority of the population of the world to have abortions is not "against abortion", even though you could certainly argue both sides because of the above.

The truth is more complicated than either of these positions, and shows the uselessness of arguing ad Nazium: Because the Nazis were racist anti-semites, they adopted a double standard with respect to abortion, encouraging it for Jews and other disfavored groups, while simultaneously forbidding abortion to "Aryan" women, who were supposed to have as many children as possible. Logically, the history of abortion law in Nazi Germany is irrelevant to the issue of what policy should be followed today. Playing the Hitler card only serves to turn the heat up on an already emotional debate.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html

As for Hitler being homosexual... he would have been to an extent but then everybody is actually bi-sexual it's a question of extents. But as being homosexual in the traditional terminology, no he was quite heterosexual the only evidence which points otherwise is his relationship with Albert Speer, which quite concievably had nothing to do with 'homoeroticism' as the historians who theorised this idea called it.

As for Himmler being homosexual... err no... the man was a romantic and a very efficent organiser but he was no homosexual, since he despised Rohm for that. Which is why he killed his former boss, with Hitler's endorsement.

Hitler was for Christianities Dogmatic form (Catholic style), but he didn't like actual Christian Theological teachings, no. However, he maintained he was a Christian to the end, which is something of a hypocracy but then who isn't hypocritical?

The Jews are the Jews... they are a Religion, they are God's chosen people to themselves, whilst Christians are God's chosen people to themselves and Muslims are God's chosen people to themselves...

Hitler was in fact a very clever man in a lot of ways (politically) but he did rather over estimate his ability in the military sphere. Besides, in my opinion he wasn't all that bad... remeber lots of little facts get skipped over by most people when talking about Nazi Germany i.e. where a lot of modern tech comes from, 'aryanised' Jews, Zionism etc.

What do you mean by "aryanised"? Hitler is not the reason for "aryanised" jews, nor zionism, nor technology. It's not the cause, since hitler FAILED at what he wanted, so that's why Zionism lives at its greatness. Although, I must admit that without the Holocaust, Zionism wouldn't have become what it is today.

The Zionist problem could have been solved by taking a huge piece of germany and giving it to the "aryanised" jews since they were the ones that suffered the nazi regime most, and germany was guilty of it, and there would have been no turmoil in the middle east as much as there is today, since the arab jews wouldn't have suffered either the pogroms that came just after the holocaust in the arab countries because of the Zionist ideals, if no aryan jew would have stepped in palestine. And I bet the aryan-jewish country would have produced a lot more Tech, since they would be much more focused in useful Tech more than in the amount they spend on Warfare that is needed in Israel to defend itself.

Yiddnland:
He was against abortion for Aryans. He was for abortion for non-Aryans. Non-Aryans are a larger group of people. On average, then, it's more sensible to say he was pro-abortion. In any case, I think most pro-lifers would say someone who would like to force the majority of the population of the world to have abortions is not "against abortion", even though you could certainly argue both sides because of the above.

Logical argument, but kinda obvious. It's not like he promoted abortion for other groups. He was "indifferent" on them, prohibiting them to breed, and killing them, but it's not like he really did propaganda for abortion.

Logical argument, but kinda obvious. It's not like he promoted abortion for other groups. He was "indifferent" on them, prohibiting them to breed, and killing them, but it's not like he really did propaganda for abortion.
No, he didn't "promote" abortion for non-aryans, nor was he particularly known for "pro-choice propaganda". He did order pregnant non-aryans to have abortions. My first mention of the matter was in error, he wasn't strictly "for abortion" because he expressly banned it from a part of the population. Your "correction" was also in error he because he forced another part to have them.

Don't insult Christians by saying Hitler was for Christianity..... he was a
Monster and I won't stand by while you try to make him look good at
Christs expense! The Jews are Gods chosen people according to the Bible....
he tried to exterminate them .... I dare say that friends like Hitler are no friends at all!!

Calm down. Hitler was definatly for Christianity- his own version.

No one claimed that Christianity was for Hitler.

Hmmm.... I thought God was all-forgiving? Isn't that in the Bible too?

Yes, it is.

That's why the Catholic Church has never claimed ANYONE was in hell (Sure, Catholics have, but not the Church itself).

Not even Hitler.

Or Judas.

No, he didn't "promote" abortion for non-aryans, nor was he particularly known for "pro-choice propaganda". He did order pregnant non-aryans to have abortions. My first mention of the matter was in error, he wasn't strictly "for abortion" because he expressly banned it from a part of the population. Your "correction" was also in error he because he forced another part to have them.


That's why I mentioned: "prohibiting them to breed, and killing them". As I see it, he was pro-life, by Seeking Aryans to breed at any cost. He didn't "force" abortion, he just killed that part of the population. I don't know if that can be called abortion, but certainly genocide.

In general, he was for eugenics, but he didn't count on the fact that jews were (and still are) the smartest group of the population, he was biased against the jews, so that didn't matter to him.

Do they assert that hell exists?

Besides, in my opinion he wasn't all that bad... remeber lots of little facts get skipped over by most people when talking about Nazi Germany i.e. where a lot of modern tech comes from, 'aryanised' Jews, Zionism etc.

He wasn't that bad??? HE WERE EVIL; and I mean it. Adolf Hitler should never had been born - sad, he didn't die in his prison...

I live in Sweden. My grandparents were from Poland. They were jewes. As you know, Hitler didn't like jewes - my grandparents survived (thanks (Americans [!] Brittish, Canadians, Soviet, Sout Africa...) and now lives in Stockholm.

World War 2 was not long ago. We should not forget the evil of Nazi Germany. Hope it doesn't happen again... :(

That's why I mentioned: "prohibiting them to breed, and killing them". As I see it, he was pro-life, by Seeking Aryans to breed at any cost.Here's one thing I hate about the "pro-choice"/"pro-life" thing. Suddenly someone seeking the genocide of the majority of the world's population is "pro-life". It just doesn't add up to a non-native English speaker like me.
He didn't "force" abortion, he just killed that part of the population. I don't know if that can be called abortion, but certainly genocide.When a pregnant woman is forced to have an abortion, I call that a forced abortion. He might not have personally done this, by going at pregnant jews with a coathanger, but he was a major influence in it being done. People who were not in the immediate extermination list had this done to them. Before the Wannsee conference's answer to the "Jewish Question", the top nazi officials were not completely sure they'd go along with the genocide-through-mass-murder thing anyway, at least on the scale that it actually happened, but selective breeding (and abortions as part of it) were an established part of nazism from near the beginning.

That's some rather random extentionalist logic you have there, Blackledge

It's the same twisted genious that allowed stalin to live in amazing palaces during his stay atop the USSR while convincing his suffering people that they were all equal in communism.

Stalin didn't live in palaces. He did-in fact- live very sober. He had less luxury than all the people posting on this forum.

his doctor ordered him to be a vegetarian.

he didn't listen very well.

He did like to tell bloody stories about animals to ruin his guests' appatite in meat.

doesn't anyone else think its a bit wierd hitler thought the perfect man was tall, blond and blue eyed when he himself was a short fat brown haired brown eyed idiot, and he seemed to think alot of himself........strange

His eyes were blue and he certainly wasnt fat. And the fact that he came out of horrible circumstances to become one of the most significant men in history pretty much excludes him from being a mere "idiot".....

His eyes were blue and he certainly wasnt fat. And the fact that he came out of horrible circumstances to become one of the most significant men in history pretty much excludes him from being a mere "idiot".....
He may have been intelligent, but he was also arrogant, which cost him in the end. Oh, and he was an evil bastard anyways, so I don't see how much it matters if someone calls him an idiot. They may just be using it in a colloquial sense.

Here's one thing I hate about the "pro-choice"/"pro-life" thing. Suddenly someone seeking the genocide of the majority of the world's population is "pro-life". It just doesn't add up to a non-native English speaker like me.
well, he certainly wasn't pro-choice if he was forcing the abortions of non-aryans and not allowing aryan women to abort.

he was just an ass.

He did like to tell bloody stories about animals to ruin his guests' appatite in meat.
yet he still ate it, despite his doctor's orders.

maybe he thought that if other people weren't eating meat, then he wouldn't feel left out if he actually listened to the doctors.

well, he certainly wasn't pro-choice if he was forcing the abortions of non-aryans and not allowing aryan women to abort.

he was just an ass.True, true.

communism- such a good idea in theory...................shame people are so corrupt
even in theory it is crap, but whatever, a utopia is what it was and we all know that will never happen

What do you mean by "aryanised"? Hitler is not the reason for "aryanised" jews, nor zionism, nor technology. It's not the cause, since hitler FAILED at what he wanted, so that's why Zionism lives at its greatness. Although, I must admit that without the Holocaust, Zionism wouldn't have become what it is today.

The Zionist problem could have been solved by taking a huge piece of germany and giving it to the "aryanised" jews since they were the ones that suffered the nazi regime most, and germany was guilty of it, and there would have been no turmoil in the middle east as much as there is today, since the arab jews wouldn't have suffered either the pogroms that came just after the holocaust in the arab countries because of the Zionist ideals, if no aryan jew would have stepped in palestine. And I bet the aryan-jewish country would have produced a lot more Tech, since they would be much more focused in useful Tech more than in the amount they spend on Warfare that is needed in Israel to defend itself.

Oh for Christ's sake read some books. Zionism was endorsed by the Nazi's... The Madgasscar plan... ever heard of that? Or the fact that Germany took money for the rich Jews to pay for the poor ones to be shipped out.

Hitler actually did a lot of what he wanted to do, just not for very long.

Erm... half the stuff you use today is a direct or indirect result of Nazism :) (an exageration but take the point). Remeber, a lot is possible because of the testing that took place in the death camps was eugenics free, things like the twin pressure experiments and medical experiments actually contributed a lot of the understanding of human capabilities and understanding. Besides most of the War Criminals were recruited by the British, Americans and Soviets for their own countries... Operation Paperclip :D

Hitler did 'Aryanise' very useful Jews i.e. scientists who might be of use etc... his troops also took Jewish children who were the Nazi ideal and either killed them (anti-propaganda) or Nazifyed them.

Oh for Christ's sake read some books. Zionism was endorsed by the Nazi's... The Madgasscar plan... ever heard of that? Or the fact that Germany took money for the rich Jews to pay for the poor ones to be shipped out.

Yeah... Like I don't read. I've heard about the Madagascar Plan, but never of the ‘Madgasscar’ plan. And that plan was never Zionist, it was intended to make the Jews Hostages so that America would pay a shitload, but Madagascar was not owned by Germany, so they were not able to do that. Zionism? That was the main reason for Hitler to consider Jews "un-German".


Hitler actually did a lot of what he wanted to do, just not for very long.

Erm... half the stuff you use today is a direct or indirect result of Nazism :) (an exageration but take the point)

Remeber, a lot is possible because of the testing that took place in the death camps was eugenics free, things like the twin pressure experiments and medical experiments actually contributed a lot of the understanding of human capabilities and understanding. Besides most of the War Criminals were recruited by the British, Americans and Soviets for their own countries... Operation Paperclip :D.

Which point? examples? You’re not “exagerating”, but yeah, you’re exaggerating. And I don’t “remeber”, but I do remember. Eugenics was not even proposed by the Nazis, you "reader". It was proposed by Francis Galton at first, and he never meant to kill anyone. He said that dumb people should live in churches so that their genes don't spread.



Hitler did 'Aryanise' very useful Jews i.e. scientists who might be of use etc... his troops also took Jewish children who were the Nazi ideal and either killed them (anti-propaganda) or Nazifyed them.

Again, examples? How can you "aryanise" someone? With papers? If he did "aryanise" some Jews, he could have done that with Einstein and won the war. But I do take the idea that he did "aryanise" himself, and some of the members of his cabinet (because some had jewish roots, but obviously they denied it). And, of course he took some children that looked Aryan to do some propaganda, or that looked well enough to cheat the Red Cross into making them think that there were no extermination plans, I don't know if you did read about this.