NationStates Jolt Archive

Man has known war since the beginning...
We've fought for land, power, money, religion and freedom...
From the time of Tribal Warfare to the 21st Century Battlefield...

The question I bring to you is... Do We NEED War?

It's been a proven fact that War and Conflict has provided the advancement of technology and scientific discovery at an incredible rate... Especially during the times of World War I, World War II, and the Cold War...

Though it is true that War is it's own entity... The saying "War is Hell" doesn't even begin to describe it's horror...

However the fact that the human race seems to ban togather against a common enemy is plain to see to any person... A major example would be when Hitler and the Nazi Party rose to power in Germany...

We all became so eager to kill Nazi's...to destroy Hitler...

And it was World War 2 that lead to the Cold War... When the Western Powers and the U.S.S.R. no longer had a common enemy...they turned on each other... And it then became a conflict between Communism and Democracy...

Do we NEED War as an means to unite under one banner...
Or can we realistically approach every problem we run into peacefully...?

I eagerly await your arguments, ideas and theories...
:)

I don't believe humanity needs war . . . however I don't believe its in our best interests if we do outgrow it.

BEFORE you guys accuse me of warmongering, read the following:


Say that humanity is able to outgrow war. By outgrowing war, however, we may also grow out of our desire to protect freedom and liberty (this just being lethargy to fight for whatever cause, because of that last war being *that* destructive).

While humanity as a whole outgrows war, say that there is still some militant group left? They stage an unopposed takeover, and because people have outgrown war, they are unwilling to fight for freedom.

"Do we need war?"

No, but it's sometimes necessary.

War is Great for Business, as they say.

Anywho, regular Human Emotion is what triggers war. Not much you can change about that.

Yes. Without war, man is not forced to test the limits of his mental and physical abilities. Without war, we would probably still be like our cave-men ancestors.

Man has known war since the beginning...
We've fought for land, power, money, religion and freedom...
From the time of Tribal Warfare to the 21st Century Battlefield...

The question I bring to you is... Do We NEED War?

It's been a proven fact that War and Conflict has provided the advancement of technology and scientific discovery at an incredible rate... Especially during the times of World War I, World War II, and the Cold War...

Though it is true that War is it's own entity... The saying "War is Hell" doesn't even begin to describe it's horror...

However the fact that the human race seems to ban togather against a common enemy is plain to see to any person... A major example would be when Hitler and the Nazi Party rose to power in Germany...

We all became so eager to kill Nazi's...to destroy Hitler...

And it was World War 2 that lead to the Cold War... When the Western Powers and the U.S.S.R. no longer had a common enemy...they turned on each other... And it then became a conflict between Communism and Democracy...

Do we NEED War as an means to unite under one banner...
Or can we realistically approach every problem we run into peacefully...?

I eagerly await your arguments, ideas and theories...
:)


Do we "need" herpes or AIDS?

Since when does the "need" for something dictate whether or not it will occur?

i think we LOVE war
why else do we go back to it over and over again

"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it."
robert e lee

War is Great for Business, as they say.

Anywho, regular Human Emotion is what triggers war. Not much you can change about that.
Actually, it's just a TAD more complex than that, although emotions certainly have a great deal to do with it.

Do we "need" herpes or AIDS?

Since when does the "need" for something dictate whether or not it will occur?

Simply just a way of opening the argument...

I'm not saying that the "need" dictates whether it will occur or not...just wether people believe that we need it or not...

i think we LOVE war
why else do we go back to it over and over again

"It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it."
robert e lee
That's another reason. It's not that we "love" war, but that it so far exceeds most human endeavors as to make it a totally involving activity, engaging all the senses, triggering both the worst and best in human nature, calling forth great feats of courage from both individuals and groups.

Actually, it's just a TAD more complex than that, although emotions certainly have a great deal to do with it.

Well, yea. But think about it: Soldiers go to war because they, thier country, and thier leader Feel like something has to be done about something. None of it really seems "Necessary" to me.

Well, yea. But think about it: Soldiers go to war because they, thier country, and thier leader Feel like something has to be done about something. None of it really seems "Necessary" to me.
except that sometimes war comes to you.
if you arent ready when it does come, you lose.
so we dont dare turn our swords into ploughshares, the bad guys will take advantage of our weakness.

No, but it kills repbulicans. But we have to pick up the tab as tax payers.

war isn't neccassary, yes all those tree hugging hippies are right we don't need war. now befoe you go accusing me of being one of those vegetarian pot heads. let me explain that we want war.

humanity is still young. we still have primal aggresions, you can see it in sex appeal what do women want the most a really buff guy that looks awesome in a string bikini. oh and just for clarification im not gay i was just using it as an example. anyways off of women and back to the subject.

Humanity is naturally violent, everyone from the begger on the street to the pope in the pope mobile has feelings of aggresion. beleive it or not everyone has a feeling of "im gonna kill that person i swear to god" war allows to act out our primal aggresions for a purpose it gives us a reason to kill. the only thing thats different about homo sapiens now and then is that weve devolped a conscience which makes us feel bad when we do something morally wrong.

but is war really wrong , lets examine the facts.

1. it gets rid of psychotics like hitler.

2. as much as it sucks to say it keeps population in check i mean like hunting dear when theirs too many of them. we have no natural predators so what better to make sure we dont over populate than our own species.

3. it is great for buisness think of the stuff coming out now for the millitary thats actually keeping those buisnesses alive. and video games who hear wants a video game about the cabage patch kids adventure to the wonderful rainbow where they have to collect as many hearts as they can to make them selves look pretty and have little bunnies help them along. or do you want a game where limbs explode from a body when shot with a sawed off shot gun. i dont know about you people but id pick the later.

Excellent points...

Also, it is safe to say we are now without natural predators.

In the absence of natural predators we engage in self predation.

War is our method of self predation.

Predators are catalysts for evolution.

So, war is a catalyst for our evolution.

A fun proof to critique anyway.

"What befalls the earth befalls all the sons of the earth.
This we know: the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth.
All things are connected like the blood that unites us all.
Man does not weave this web of life. He is merely a strand of it.
Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself."

-Chief Seattle (1786-1866)

"The destruction of our enemies is the destruction of ourselves."

- The Dalai Lama, Toronto 2004

Well, yea. But think about it: Soldiers go to war because they, thier country, and thier leader Feel like something has to be done about something. None of it really seems "Necessary" to me.
Not even when you're attacked first?

I believe that war is not necessary, but is an inexorable part of human nature.
Example:
:) coexists with :p
One day, :p kicks :) in the shin.
Thus, :) wants to get back at :p .

So if you say :) is a country, and :p is a country, it works in the same principle: Party A alienates Party B, so Party B wants to get back at Party A.

War is not something that can be contained, it's almost like a disease.

Example: Lets say in your neighborhood your neighbor is coming over and stealing your newspaper. You catch him doing it one day and tell him to stop and he gives you the finger and says, "Make me" and goes over and key's your car. Most likely this is enough to get anyone pissed enough to start a fight. Lets apply that to a much larger scale...

Hey Saddam get the hell out of Kuwait... "MAKE ME!"... = WAR

It's not a matter of need, but simply a matter of it just happening. War is inevitable.

But now is War benficial? That's a really hard question, I guess you must ask to whom? To an Industrial Corporation's CEO? HELL YEA... to some poor inner city kid who's brother died in the fighting, fuck no.

It also really depends on what kind of war you're talking about, if we nuked each others cities into dust, well that just doesn't help anyone but if you're talking about something like the Spanish-American War (as the english called it America's "Splendid little war")

Benefeits of War:
Prosperity (at least to the victor...)
Innovation (The key to invention is neccesity)
Surge in Nationalism

Negatives of War:
disease
famine
political instability

okay this is a hard argument to organize when you're tired... if you've followed my gibberish so far and are kind of confused on what I'm saying...

Do we NEED war? No, Is war always avoidable, No, who benefeits from war, Rich people and the victor nations, Who suffers in War? The lower class and the looser.

I need to think about this more....

As was said earlier war is an outlet of the primal side of human nature. It will always be around. To ask if it is necessary is to pose one of the most difficult questions in life. There are to many positive and negative aspects of war to be able to answer it.

As a soldier I can honestly say that I wish war was not necessary but to see the end of war is to hope for to much.

Except for ending slavery, Fascism, Nazism, and Communism, war has never solved anything.

the question is not "are we need war?", the question is are our leaders need war?
and for that I can tell you yes!!
first, war make the public united. that mean more supporters to the goverment.
secondly, the war is ecsuse for the leader for questions like: "why you don't fix the road in my neighbour?"
"why the grades of the students so low?"
"why their is so much poorness?"
"what with the coruption?
and more like that.
also, most of the goverments connected in some way to the rich peoples. most of the riches had advantages from the war. so when the riches want to improve their business some small war could help them, and they can to tell the goverment what to do.
at last, war remove the peace. some leaders afraid from the peace that make them give the other countrey water, teritorey, rights, etc'.

the point is when the leaders want war, war will be, and whole the history there is more war's time than peace's time.

War is Great for Business, as they say.

Anywho, regular Human Emotion is what triggers war. Not much you can change about that.

Just a quick dash of Prozium will do! ;)

its impossible to live with out our army's and weapons as there will always be a nation or leader that will be unable to approach problems in any other way but war. i agree war is awful, and there should be a world without it but that will never happen. there will always be a person who is a danger to people that will have to be taken down violently. look at hitler, do u think he would have stopped being an evil fool if we'd have sat him down and talked about it. ofcourse not. war was the only way to stop him. it's just the way it is

We need to be ready to wage war. As long as there are those who might attack us we need a military deterrant. If deterrance fails we need to completely destroy our enemies. Really make an example out of them. The fact is that many cultures value victroy much more highly than peace.

War is the engine of history, and battles the punctuation on the page. War is, as some have mentioned before, the last method of human evolution; War has driven us to adapt our tools, our minds and our very methods of thinking in order to survive and prosper. War is the proving ground of all that defines us. In it's firey crucible our cultures, concepts and beliefs clash and are reforged to drive us forth yet again.

With the fruits of conflict, we can fly faster and higher than any bird, travel as far as the bottom of the sea. Life itself is enslaved in our armouries, while Death for the entirety of the Earth lurks in our silos. Without a foe, we prey upon each other and are dragged down by petty differences - but let the call of a just war fill our ears and we unite like a breaking wave to sweep away the transgressor of our shared values. We are mankind, we are warriors and we are GLORIOUS.

BA War Studies - The scholarly equivalent of cocaine. ;)

War "grew up" with the Akkadians and the Summerians in the Mediterranean Bronze Age, at a time when the sacrifice of human life was considered sacred. The same spirit lives on in the "noble" soldier dying for cause and country.

I don't believe that war was the only path mankind could have followed, and I do believe we can live without it someday.

Except for ending slavery, Fascism, Nazism, and Communism, war has never solved anything.

funny, i hadn't realized that all those were eradicated from the face of the planet.

guess war hasn't really solved anything.

I believe that as long as the primative elements of man exist, war will exist. I like to think of war as a form of hunting: testosterone rich, fool-hardy for the inexperienced, and after a while, seemingly pointless. I await for flamming by hunters, but we'll address that issue if it is brought up.
Anyhow, these primative elements of society have either been beaten out of us, or neutralized with the advent of diplomacy and security rules. But as we are seeing right now, not everyone follows these security rules, nor cares about the consequences of breaking them. For example, the US and Russia would be scared shitless to nuke eachother, because each has the power to annihilate the other. Rogue states, however, do not have such cares, nor do terrorists. And what is the sad thing about hunting, and war, is that only one party needs to be the hunter. The difference is that in war, the hunted can, and often must fight back.
So in sum, we need to eliminate the primative elements of all humans in order to eliminate war. Why is war infrequent in developed countries, yet rampant in sub-Sahara Africa? Because they are more primative than we are. We need to change that.

Now as a little addendum, I don't believe in some form of social Darwinism. Anyone can have primative instincts beaten from them. I just believe that those that can't surpress them will be inherently inferior to those that can.

the question is not "are we need war?", the question is are our leaders need war?
and for that I can tell you yes!!
first, war make the public united. that mean more supporters to the goverment.
secondly, the war is ecsuse for the leader for questions like: "why you don't fix the road in my neighbour?"
"why the grades of the students so low?"
"why their is so much poorness?"
"what with the coruption?
and more like that.
also, most of the goverments connected in some way to the rich peoples. most of the riches had advantages from the war. so when the riches want to improve their business some small war could help them, and they can to tell the goverment what to do.
at last, war remove the peace. some leaders afraid from the peace that make them give the other countrey water, teritorey, rights, etc'.

the point is when the leaders want war, war will be, and whole the history there is more war's time than peace's time.
you are SOOOO right!
the people at the bottom dont go to war, the people at the TOP do and the people at the bottom fight it for them. it helps if the people at the bottom agree with it but its not necessary

Almost every war is ultimately a resource war. The apparent differences are merely the result of varying justifications being offered by the instigators. This in itself is a relatively recent change - historically leaders have usually been open about resource conflict, and the public enthusiastically backed it, so long as times were good and victory appeared possible.

Natural resources are unevenly distributed throughout the world, and are an absolute necessity to the continued existence of any civilisation which is built upon them. Were they to be traded in an egalitarian fashion, resource wars would not be a necessity, but of course human nature being what it is, this is never the case, and if one faces the prospect of decline and fall in the absence of an adequate resource base, then resource conquest becomes a necessity. Also, it can be desirable rather than necessary, as in the absence of any actual threat to your existence, resource conquest becomes not a means of survival, but an attractive source of additional wealth, economic growth and technological development.

I would not say we "need" war, but war appears to be a necessary and inevitable product of human civilisation.