Texan Hotrodders
23-11-2004, 22:12
Guide to the General Forum
Note: I will be editing some things in shortly.
I and many others have gotten tired of the “debate” that goes on in the General forum. This is partially due to the fact that some of us remember a time when posters were generally more pleasant and polite, when even being chatty and very friendly was fairly normal. I would like to see that happen again.
I would also like to see some more quality debate, which we have unfortunately never had a lot of in the General forum. There are a few individuals who practice quality debate, but there are only a few, and it would be nice to have a majority doing so. (I’m not saying I’m one of those individuals, just that I recognize them.) In the interest of furthering that cause, I have constructed the following guide.
Most of the things contained below have been mentioned many times by many players, and I’ve compiled them and added some of my own stuff. I probably missed something (I usually do) so feel free to recommend an addition and I’ll add it and give you the credit.
Etiquette
(1.) Be Polite, Dammit.
Remember to be relatively polite in your interactions with others. When you are asking another person for help, remember to make it a request, not a demand. You are more likely to get the help you need that way.
Example:
Good – “Could someone help me, please?”
Bad – “Tell me how to do this, you morons, and maybe I won’t kill you when I take over the world!”
When a person does help you, or multiple persons, it is a good idea to thank them. Try not to brush off or belittle their help.
Example:
Good – “Thanks everyone!”
Bad – “Haha! Now I have the powah! I pwn joo 4ll!”
Keep in mind that cursing is useful as emphasis, and it ceases to be useful when it is overused. When you use words like “damn,” and “fuck,” and “shit,” try to use them to add something to your post. If it doesn’t add something to your post, you probably should not have it in there. If someone is offended by your cursing, perhaps you could humor them and not use curses when you are discussing something with them. You and I may not care whether they are used, but we can show some tolerance and respect for those who do.
Example:
Good – “That video is really fucking awesome!”
Bad – “Fuck you, fuckers! I don’t give a fucking fuck about your shit, fucker! You can get your fucking head out of your damn ass!”
When someone does some really good work, compliment them on it. They’ll feel better about themselves and may even return the favor when you need it most at some point.
Example:
Good – “Great job! I really like how detailed and thorough that is.”
Bad – “That isn’t really that good. I’ve seen better.” Translation: Because you showed me how much smarter you are I feel insecure and will belittle your work.
You may objectively believe that you’ve seen better, but there’s no reason to say it. If you think it could be better, offer polite suggestions for improvement.
(2.) Good-natured Humor and Wit
Most of us enjoy a good laugh now and then, and it generally puts us in a good mood. I would encourage you to banter and joke around with other forumgoers, because it just makes the experience better. However, do be sure to make it clear that you are joking, perhaps by using a smiley to indicate less-than-serious intentions. It would be a shame to be warned for flaming over a joke. It’s sad that I have to issue such a cautionary note, but I do.
(3.) Read the Damn Stickies!
When you come to a new site and/or forum, it’s a good idea to read the information that has been made available for persons like yourself. It gives you a better foundation for understanding your environment, and just generally makes you look like you know what you’re doing. Read the site FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=faq) so you know what not to do (ie. Spamming, trolling, flaming). You should probably read more threads than you post in. It’s similar to the saying, “We have two ears and one mouth, so we should probably be listening twice as much as we talk.” Basically, spouting off is not nearly as useful as learning something, and if you ask a question that is in the Stickies or the FAQ, you’re probably going to be looked down on. If you don’t know what Stickies are, just give up now and never come back.
Debate Tips
(1.) Be Constructive
When criticizing another person’s argument(s), don’t just say their argument sucks and be done with it. Explain why the argument sucks as clearly as you can, and if possible, offer alternative solutions.
(2.) Define Your Terms
Many of the debates that end badly in this forum have the same problem; the people conducting the debate have different understandings of a term critical to the success of the argument. That just leads to misunderstandings, some of them unfortunately irrevocable. So when you start an argument, perhaps you could define some key terms right off and then move on from there. Be prepared to call off an argument if it becomes clear that you can’t agree on the terms. There is no point in shouting past each other and looking like arrogant, ill-tempered jackasses.
(3.) Don’t Be Afraid to Admit a Mistake
This is something we are all guilty of and will continue to be guilty of, I’m afraid. Having said that, I’m sure we can all at least try to start just admitting it when we make a mistake. If you use the wrong term in a post and it throws off the discussion, apologize. If you are tired and hungry and can’t think but posted something anyway and it came out really stupid, apologize. If you were irritated or in a bad mood and you insulted someone, apologize. It’s really very simple, even though our egos may not like it.
(4.) Feel Free to Ask Questions
If you don’t know something about a particular topic, please ask or look it up. If you don’t know what another poster thinks about an issue, ask them. Don’t assume that just because they usually have [insert political orientation here] views on other issues does not mean that they’ll have the same [insert political orientation here] views on every issue.
(5.) Accept Constructive Criticism
If a person just says that your argument sucks without explaining why, you should probably just ignore them. However, if they point out a real flaw in your argument, don’t be afraid to accept the criticism in your argument and try to revise the argument so that it’s stronger, or if all else fails, just abandon that argument and either find another and better way to support your position or give up and admit defeat.
Things to Consider When Posting
(1.) Labels are especially tricky on an international forum such as this one. To some people a political label like "liberal" might mean what you think of as "conservative". Keep this in mind when you use such labels so you can avoid misunderstanding. Perhaps you can even indicate which definition you are using when you say "liberal" or "conservative" or any other generic label.
(2.) Pretty much all of the thread topics involving God, religion, partisan politics, abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, racism, evolution, creationism, anarchism, fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism, libertarianism, gun control, environmental concerns, euthanasia, jokes, sexual activities, drugs, music, movies, the U.S. economy, who's to blame for the U.S. economy, the political compass quiz, and much, much more have been beaten to death, run over with cars, and burned. So please, if you want to know stuff about these topics, just use the keyword search function, and you will find out more than you ever wanted to know about most of these topics, and be ready for a debate.
Miscellaneous Player's Tips
One other tip: Don't call a thread "The Volcano" unless you want us old-timers to attack you.
This does not apply to The Basenji or Rambos army. At least I think it doesn't.
References
Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate (http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html)
Note: I will be editing some things in shortly.
I and many others have gotten tired of the “debate” that goes on in the General forum. This is partially due to the fact that some of us remember a time when posters were generally more pleasant and polite, when even being chatty and very friendly was fairly normal. I would like to see that happen again.
I would also like to see some more quality debate, which we have unfortunately never had a lot of in the General forum. There are a few individuals who practice quality debate, but there are only a few, and it would be nice to have a majority doing so. (I’m not saying I’m one of those individuals, just that I recognize them.) In the interest of furthering that cause, I have constructed the following guide.
Most of the things contained below have been mentioned many times by many players, and I’ve compiled them and added some of my own stuff. I probably missed something (I usually do) so feel free to recommend an addition and I’ll add it and give you the credit.
Etiquette
(1.) Be Polite, Dammit.
Remember to be relatively polite in your interactions with others. When you are asking another person for help, remember to make it a request, not a demand. You are more likely to get the help you need that way.
Example:
Good – “Could someone help me, please?”
Bad – “Tell me how to do this, you morons, and maybe I won’t kill you when I take over the world!”
When a person does help you, or multiple persons, it is a good idea to thank them. Try not to brush off or belittle their help.
Example:
Good – “Thanks everyone!”
Bad – “Haha! Now I have the powah! I pwn joo 4ll!”
Keep in mind that cursing is useful as emphasis, and it ceases to be useful when it is overused. When you use words like “damn,” and “fuck,” and “shit,” try to use them to add something to your post. If it doesn’t add something to your post, you probably should not have it in there. If someone is offended by your cursing, perhaps you could humor them and not use curses when you are discussing something with them. You and I may not care whether they are used, but we can show some tolerance and respect for those who do.
Example:
Good – “That video is really fucking awesome!”
Bad – “Fuck you, fuckers! I don’t give a fucking fuck about your shit, fucker! You can get your fucking head out of your damn ass!”
When someone does some really good work, compliment them on it. They’ll feel better about themselves and may even return the favor when you need it most at some point.
Example:
Good – “Great job! I really like how detailed and thorough that is.”
Bad – “That isn’t really that good. I’ve seen better.” Translation: Because you showed me how much smarter you are I feel insecure and will belittle your work.
You may objectively believe that you’ve seen better, but there’s no reason to say it. If you think it could be better, offer polite suggestions for improvement.
(2.) Good-natured Humor and Wit
Most of us enjoy a good laugh now and then, and it generally puts us in a good mood. I would encourage you to banter and joke around with other forumgoers, because it just makes the experience better. However, do be sure to make it clear that you are joking, perhaps by using a smiley to indicate less-than-serious intentions. It would be a shame to be warned for flaming over a joke. It’s sad that I have to issue such a cautionary note, but I do.
(3.) Read the Damn Stickies!
When you come to a new site and/or forum, it’s a good idea to read the information that has been made available for persons like yourself. It gives you a better foundation for understanding your environment, and just generally makes you look like you know what you’re doing. Read the site FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=faq) so you know what not to do (ie. Spamming, trolling, flaming). You should probably read more threads than you post in. It’s similar to the saying, “We have two ears and one mouth, so we should probably be listening twice as much as we talk.” Basically, spouting off is not nearly as useful as learning something, and if you ask a question that is in the Stickies or the FAQ, you’re probably going to be looked down on. If you don’t know what Stickies are, just give up now and never come back.
Debate Tips
(1.) Be Constructive
When criticizing another person’s argument(s), don’t just say their argument sucks and be done with it. Explain why the argument sucks as clearly as you can, and if possible, offer alternative solutions.
(2.) Define Your Terms
Many of the debates that end badly in this forum have the same problem; the people conducting the debate have different understandings of a term critical to the success of the argument. That just leads to misunderstandings, some of them unfortunately irrevocable. So when you start an argument, perhaps you could define some key terms right off and then move on from there. Be prepared to call off an argument if it becomes clear that you can’t agree on the terms. There is no point in shouting past each other and looking like arrogant, ill-tempered jackasses.
(3.) Don’t Be Afraid to Admit a Mistake
This is something we are all guilty of and will continue to be guilty of, I’m afraid. Having said that, I’m sure we can all at least try to start just admitting it when we make a mistake. If you use the wrong term in a post and it throws off the discussion, apologize. If you are tired and hungry and can’t think but posted something anyway and it came out really stupid, apologize. If you were irritated or in a bad mood and you insulted someone, apologize. It’s really very simple, even though our egos may not like it.
(4.) Feel Free to Ask Questions
If you don’t know something about a particular topic, please ask or look it up. If you don’t know what another poster thinks about an issue, ask them. Don’t assume that just because they usually have [insert political orientation here] views on other issues does not mean that they’ll have the same [insert political orientation here] views on every issue.
(5.) Accept Constructive Criticism
If a person just says that your argument sucks without explaining why, you should probably just ignore them. However, if they point out a real flaw in your argument, don’t be afraid to accept the criticism in your argument and try to revise the argument so that it’s stronger, or if all else fails, just abandon that argument and either find another and better way to support your position or give up and admit defeat.
Things to Consider When Posting
(1.) Labels are especially tricky on an international forum such as this one. To some people a political label like "liberal" might mean what you think of as "conservative". Keep this in mind when you use such labels so you can avoid misunderstanding. Perhaps you can even indicate which definition you are using when you say "liberal" or "conservative" or any other generic label.
(2.) Pretty much all of the thread topics involving God, religion, partisan politics, abortion, capital punishment, gay marriage, racism, evolution, creationism, anarchism, fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism, libertarianism, gun control, environmental concerns, euthanasia, jokes, sexual activities, drugs, music, movies, the U.S. economy, who's to blame for the U.S. economy, the political compass quiz, and much, much more have been beaten to death, run over with cars, and burned. So please, if you want to know stuff about these topics, just use the keyword search function, and you will find out more than you ever wanted to know about most of these topics, and be ready for a debate.
Miscellaneous Player's Tips
One other tip: Don't call a thread "The Volcano" unless you want us old-timers to attack you.
This does not apply to The Basenji or Rambos army. At least I think it doesn't.
References
Logical Fallacies and the Art of Debate (http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html)