NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, I do not understand for the life of me why Canada's existence angers so many of my fellow countrymen- I mean, at my high school, people refer to it as "CANADIA" and "QUEBECKYIAN FRENCHIES"- and that we should nuke them.

I, for one, do not understand this. Canada comes from the same democratic traditions that America does (Great Britain), and is a generally nice country. I mean, sure some of us (including me) want to move to Canada, but does that make it a bad country? No. Just my thoughts, feel free to add or comment.

I mean, sure some of us (including me) want to move to Canada, but does that make it a bad country?
Well..emm....if some of you, including you want to move there it can't be all that bad. Eventhough the lot of them are evil communist bastards who wanted that traitor Kerry to be elected. Cause they can't deal with a REAL man like Bush. Kerry just went to Vietnam to further his political career. While Bush faithfully defended Texan airspace against VC bombers and paratroopers. ;)

Your people at school are just being poopy-heads. Don't sweat it.

Well..emm....if some of you, including you want to move there it can't be all that bad. Eventhough the lot of them are evil communist bastards who wanted that traitor Kerry to be elected. Cause they can't deal with a REAL man like Bush. ;)

Look, I'm going to move because I feel America is going down the tubes. Not because of Bush, but because of the general decline in many areas of society- education, rise in crime, etc. Plus, this country is becoming far too polar.

Just wait 'til they smoke their first bong hit of Canadian weed. They'll be singing a different tune then, just you wait and see.

Look, I'm going to move because I feel America is going down the tubes. Not because of Bush, but because of the general decline in many areas of society- education, rise in crime, etc. Plus, this country is becoming far too polar.
Man. You didn't quote the part I edited in.

You know, I do not understand for the life of me why Canada's existence angers so many of my fellow countrymen- I mean, at my high school, people refer to it as "CANADIA" and "QUEBECKYIAN FRENCHIES"- and that we should nuke them.

I, for one, do not understand this. Canada comes from the same democratic traditions that America does (Great Britain), and is a generally nice country. I mean, sure some of us (including me) want to move to Canada, but does that make it a bad country? No. Just my thoughts, feel free to add or comment.
I wish we could bo back to the time when Canada was that crazy neighbor next door that didn't come out much, you only heard when they had a pinochole party, and you only had to deal with when you accidently got some of their mail. Tall fences make for great neighbors. :D

i wonder if they realise that most of canada doesn't like quebec much either.

hell, the only really good thing about keeping them part of the country is that it keeps the maritimes connected.

Well?????

I guess with the neocon influence; Canada is bad because they won't jump and say "Yes Boss!" for our foreign affairs policy.

Never mind the fact they have the audacity to judge our actions.

i wonder if they realise that most of canada doesn't like quebec much either.

hell, the only really good thing about keeping them part of the country is that it keeps the maritimes connected.

Ah, those crazy Quebecois!

i wonder if they realise that most of canada doesn't like quebec much either.

hell, the only really good thing about keeping them part of the country is that it keeps the maritimes connected.

I'll assume you're joking, Dakini. My Canada includes Quebec. Yours doesn't?

I know mine certainly does. The only thing I find wrong with Quebec (and Newfoundland and Alberta for that matter) is the damn seperatists. Seriously. I think we should string 'em all up. But Canada just isn't Canada without Quebec. They don't realise how good they have it, either.

Sevaris, where in the States do you live, so we can send JTF2 down there to smack 'em into line? ;)

American neo-conservatives hate Canada because they see it as what America could be. Lower crime, less guns, universal health care, racial equality, multiculturalism: it's like an American liberal's wet dream. They hate us because we show how good the States could be if they just tried to treat everyone (white, black, rich, poor) fairly. I know we have a little bit to go, and we aren't perfect, but who is? Quite frankly, I'm proud to be a Canadian, and every time an American says they want to move to Canada, I get a tad bit happier inside.

I think some times that some Americans hate Canada for some thing I realized a long time ago.

The American dream is alive and well except it's in Canada! ;)

I think some times that some Americans hate Canada for some thing I realized a long time ago.

The American dream is alive and well except it's in Canada! ;)
Yeah, ultra-high taxes, State controlled media, and socialism creating craptacular medical care are the American dream. :rolleyes:

Yeah, ultra-high taxes, State controlled media, and socialism creating craptacular medical care are the American dream. :rolleyes:

Just goes to show how little you know about actually living and breathing in Canada. Not a whole bunch.

We have one TV station that has federal funds. ONE! We actually are capitalists, however we do have what is known as a social safety net to help our fellow man/women (I know, a strange concept to a conservative)

There is nothing wrong with our medical care. I really wish people would stop bitching about it. I have always had excellent care when I've been in hospital. Had two kids, and an operation some years back. See a doctor any time I wish, any doctor I wish. All I do is flash a card at them.

Sure nothing in life is free, it's built into our taxes and sure our taxes might be a little higher then that of the United States, but we get a lot more services for those taxes. If the majority of Canadians didn't want those extra services for their tax dollar, they wouldn't be there.

Canada is more of a peaceful blend of the world. America could only dream to have the level of low poverty rates and low crime rates and universal health care. Americans can only dream of a social safety net such as Canada has. Affordable housing, free medical & dental for the poor.

Yeah, I pay a little more tax then some in the United States, but I live in a country were no one has to go hungry unless they want to. So yeah, I guess I'm pretty proud of that!

I've spent a couple weeks in the hospital, and I was quite content my entire stay. There was some waiting time, but it was the middle of the night when I got there, so I don't blame them a huge amount.

As for the higher taxes, Well, Look at Sweden. Free education from ECS to College. Best Standard of living. World Renown Health Care. ANd I think a 50% Tax rate.

I'm from Alberta (Apparently a Conservative region) and I suppose Socialism. I don't mind paying some of my bucks to be able to get health care, and to know that I actually could care about someone else. :rolleyes: Another hard concept for a conservative I guess.

It seems that I'm the only one from quebec :eek: Well anyway to answer a few questions first no I'm not french, I'm Italian and secondly yes I do think the PQ(speratists party) suck because Quebec as a country would suck.

It seems that I'm the only one from quebec :eek: Well anyway to answer a few questions first no I'm not french, I'm Italian and secondly yes I do think the PQ(speratists party) suck because Quebec as a country would suck.

The way I hear it, the separatist wing of the PQ is getting awfully long in the tooth - hasn't it lost a lot of steam since the last referendum? Separatism, that is...

By the way, I'm originally from Montreal, a member of the Anglo Exodus from Quebec in the early 80s. Hi there.

I live bout as far from Canada as its possible to do without leaving the continental US. I live in Bush's back yard. You know what? Canadia is a really kick ass country! Seriously, you Canadans own!

You wanna know my fav part about Canada? The riots. Have you ever seen a Canadian riot? It's Hilarious! I saw one on Maximum Exposure (awesome show). The funny thing is, the rioters were almost doing as bad a job rioting as the Riot police were doing!

-shrugs- I guess you have to see that clip. Its FUNNY!!!

Anyways, yeah, Canada rocks, and I would move there if I could (Lots of REALLY good skatespots up there).

I call it Canadia just for fun... I don't hate Canada though, considering my parents are from there and I have a citizenship... The people who hate Canada for their pointless reasons are generally dumb, simplistic, conservative idiots, so don't pay them any attention. they don't deserve it.

Just look at America's history. We have always hated taxes from the get go. The one thing we need to learn is you need taxes to have benifits. Nothing is free. Or you'll end up in a 2 trillion dollar deficit that Bush put us in, and what is he doing about it? Lowering taxes of course! (Which could work...but isn't.)

You know, I do not understand for the life of me why Canada's existence angers so many of my fellow countrymen- I mean, at my high school, people refer to it as "CANADIA" and "QUEBECKYIAN FRENCHIES"- and that we should nuke them.

It probably has something to do with the fact that many of your fellow countrymen should shut up and learn to elect a real President (sorry, inspired by earlier post in this thread). Canada's a better country than the U.S. I'd love to live there. More guns, but less gun deaths by far. Something's going incredibly right there.

On a less antagonistic note, it might have something to do with the fact that in the mid-1800s the US and Canada argued over borders, and that prior to that, Britain invaded America through Canada, beat all who challenged them, and burnt down the White House. Then word got through that Napoleon I had escaped and was on the 100 Days rampage, so Britain had to go and beat him.

I don't see why Canada and the USA don't like each other very much. I mean, I'm from Australia, and New Zealand is like Australia's Canada. Sure, we love making Kiwi jokes every now and again, but it's all in good fun. We don't hate each-other, not by a long shot.

Just learn to get the hell along, all right? :fluffle:

Just goes to show how little you know about actually living and breathing in Canada. Not a whole bunch.

We have one TV station that has federal funds. ONE! We actually are capitalists, however we do have what is known as a social safety net to help our fellow man/women (I know, a strange concept to a conservative)

There is nothing wrong with our medical care. I really wish people would stop bitching about it. I have always had excellent care when I've been in hospital. Had two kids, and an operation some years back. See a doctor any time I wish, any doctor I wish. All I do is flash a card at them.

Sure nothing in life is free, it's built into our taxes and sure our taxes might be a little higher then that of the United States, but we get a lot more services for those taxes. If the majority of Canadians didn't want those extra services for their tax dollar, they wouldn't be there.

Canada is more of a peaceful blend of the world. America could only dream to have the level of low poverty rates and low crime rates and universal health care. Americans can only dream of a social safety net such as Canada has. Affordable housing, free medical & dental for the poor.

Yeah, I pay a little more tax then some in the United States, but I live in a country were no one has to go hungry unless they want to. So yeah, I guess I'm pretty proud of that!
Just goes to show how much you pay attention. These are all good for Canada, but they do not represent the American dream.

On a less antagonistic note, it might have something to do with the fact that in the mid-1800s the US and Canada argued over borders, and that prior to that, Britain invaded America through Canada, beat all who challenged them, and burnt down the White House. Then word got through that Napoleon I had escaped and was on the 100 Days rampage, so Britain had to go and beat him.

that was the war of 1812. and the americans attacked and got their asses handed to them.

i wonder if they realise that most of canada doesn't like quebec much either.

hell, the only really good thing about keeping them part of the country is that it keeps the maritimes connected.

I'm from Ontario. I believe that Quebec makes up a fundamental part of Canada. I love Quebec and it's people. They are pretty nice. The only problem I have is that they like to have more provinicial freedom which I believe is a very bad thing. Otherwise, all is good.

We actually are capitalists

That's a bad thing. :mad:

Ah, those crazy Quebecois!

There's no Canada like French Canada, it's ze best Canada in ze land!

That's a bad thing. :mad:




If we were too socialist, that would be a bad thing. The Liberals are fine but not the NDP.

Just goes to show how much you pay attention. These are all good for Canada, but they do not represent the American dream.

Yeah, don't you know? Nobody cares about happiness-the America dream is to take all the money in the world, stuff it in your ears, stick out your toungue, and go "NYEAH!"



Though I must ask. If you're canadians, why ISN'T it Canadia? I'm half canadian, btw :p

Yeah, don't you know? Nobody cares about happiness-the America dream is to take all the money in the world, stuff it in your ears, stick out your toungue, and go "NYEAH!"



Though I must ask. If you're canadians, why ISN'T it Canadia? I'm half canadian, btw :p



You're like the 10th person to ask that over the course of all these threads related to Canada that I've seen. I'm sure there are more but to answer you're question, I'm really not sure :S.

As a canadian I don't understand the hatred towards us. I mean we keep you well supplied with hockey players,perscription drugs, real beer, comedians, and weed. We don't complain when you force a 20 something percent tax on our softwood lumber and call it free-trade. We suck it up when you close the border to our grain and cattle so your pathetic farmers can have a chance. We let you come up and rape our landscape (banff, niagra falls, the great lakes). So tell your friends if they really have a beef with us to come up here and do something about it. I'd be glad to burn another whitehouse.

Look, I'm going to move because I feel America is going down the tubes. Not because of Bush, but because of the general decline in many areas of society- education, rise in crime, etc. Plus, this country is becoming far too polar.
Thats bush, and thats Bush...well, seems you are moving out to avoid Bush.

Thats bush, and thats Bush...well, seems you are moving out to avoid Bush.

Isn't it better to stay in america... that way you don't have to deal with the bush administrations foreign policy?

Yeah, don't you know? Nobody cares about happiness-the America dream is to take all the money in the world, stuff it in your ears, stick out your toungue, and go "NYEAH!"



Though I must ask. If you're canadians, why ISN'T it Canadia? I'm half canadian, btw :p


If we're Canadians, and it is Canadia,
why isn't China, Chines? Or Chine? Because they're Chinese .
Or Swedish, Swedi, not Sweden.
Or British and Britis?
French-France-Frenc? Fren?
Spanish? Spain? Spani?
Brazilians? Brazil? Brazili? Brazilia?

Now to be fair, there are some countries that follow your habit, (Russia, Russians) but I think the large majority don't...

Now here's a real trickster, what's a citizen of the United Soviet Socialist Republic called? :D :p

:rolleyes: Frankly it seems to me the American's are the ones really out of step with most of the world...

If we were too socialist, that would be a bad thing. The Liberals are fine but not the NDP.

Uh? The Liberals are far too Conservative to be allowed to rule. It's time for a radical change. The NDP would lead Canada to a better position in the world. The Liberals only want to give up more and more of Canada to capitalist nations like the US.. The Conservatives are even worse, they want to make Canada the 51st state. :/

I support the NDP fully (for now.)

http://popups.ctv.ca/content/publish/popups/ndp_leadership/images/jack_layton.jpg
[Soon to be] Prime Minister Jack Layton :)

http://www.ndp.ca/images/img_logo_w_slogan.gif

United Soviet Socialist Republic

That's the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. :)

Yeah, the NDP have proved on a provincial level that they are capable of running anything :headbang:

NDP have never won on a federal level, I think people are too scared to take that chance. I also believe that the NDP are too far behind the times. They think in terms of how the world worked before globalization.

Besides that, you can't really win an election without Ontario and trust me, we still haven't gotten over Bob Rae yet.. LOL :D

NDP have never won on a federal level, I think people are too scared to take that chance. I also believe that the NDP are too far behind the times. They think in terms of how the world worked before globalization.

Besides that, you can't really win an election without Ontario and trust me, we still haven't gotten over Bob Rae yet.. LOL :D


Globalization must be stopped. It is only helping the nations that start it like the USA but the countries they go to are not helped one bit.

Secondly, Bob Rae, yes, he did not follow through on some of his promises which was wrong, but he did help turn Ontario around, however unpopular his actions were.

Look, I'm going to move because I feel America is going down the tubes. Not because of Bush, but because of the general decline in many areas of society- education, rise in crime, etc. Plus, this country is becoming far too polar.

What?! The crime is rising IN CANADA and DECLINING in the US. Oh, and by the way, the US actually has MUCH lower crime than Canada. The violent crime rate in Canada is MORE THAN DOUBLE that in the US (963 and 475 per 100,000 population, respectively, in 2003) and property crime rate is also much higher (4,121 vs. 3,588.4 per 100,000). Seriously, compare official statistics: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d040728a.htm and http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/crimestat102504.htm (both are official government sites, so presumably the numbers are correct). Just about any Canadian city has higher crime rate than the New York City, for crying out loud! The myth of "safe Canada" is just that - a myth.

I think some (most?) of Americans hate Canada and Canadians because, as someone said before (Don't remember who, too lazy to check), the Canadians refused to agree with the Americans in the foreign policy (Traded with the USSR and continue to trade with Cuba).

Or maybe it goes back to Canada not wanting to join the USA. (For good reason, damn those rebels!)

What?! The crime is rising IN CANADA and DECLINING in the US. Oh, and by the way, the US actually has MUCH lower crime than Canada. The violent crime rate in Canada is MORE THAN DOUBLE that in the US (963 and 475 per 100,000 population, respectively, in 2003) and property crime rate is also much higher (4,121 vs. 3,588.4 per 100,000). Seriously, compare official statistics: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d040728a.htm and http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/crimestat102504.htm (both are official government sites, so presumably the numbers are correct). Just about any Canadian city has higher crime rate than the New York City, for crying out loud! The myth of "safe Canada" is just that - a myth.

Well you can't really compare straight statistics like that, it's more complicated.

For instance if you took the ratio of American population rural (not necessarily farmland but any population not at a city level) vs. urban and compared it to Canada you'd note that the ratio of Canadians living in cities is higher, and crime naturally occurs at a higher rate in cities.

As well, as our legal systems are different, you would have to compare similar crimes and not crimes as a whole.

And saying that crime rates in Canadian Cities are higher than NYC's is an odd claim, could you quote a source?

Here is one source (admittedly 3 years old) that refutes that claim found after 30 seconds on google:

http://www.2ontario.com/welcome/ooql_602.asp

What?! The crime is rising IN CANADA and DECLINING in the US. Oh, and by the way, the US actually has MUCH lower crime than Canada. The violent crime rate in Canada is MORE THAN DOUBLE that in the US (963 and 475 per 100,000 population, respectively, in 2003) and property crime rate is also much higher (4,121 vs. 3,588.4 per 100,000). Seriously, compare official statistics: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d040728a.htm and http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/crimestat102504.htm (both are official government sites, so presumably the numbers are correct). Just about any Canadian city has higher crime rate than the New York City, for crying out loud! The myth of "safe Canada" is just that - a myth.


Where to start....

Crime rates rising in canada? The first paragraph from the stascan report:

On the other hand, the national homicide rate fell 7% last year to its lowest level since 1967. In addition, the rate of drug crimes in Canada dropped 8%, the first decline since 1993. This was largely driven by a decrease in reported cannabis possession incidents.

After peaking in 1991, the overall crime rate fell steadily throughout the 1990s and remained relatively stable from 2000 to 2002. The 2003 crime rate was 15% lower than a decade ago, but 14% higher than 25 years ago.

Of the more than 2.5 million Criminal Code incidents reported by police last year, 12% were violent crimes, 51% property crimes and 37% other Criminal Code offences.



Next, perhaps you should consider the diferences in staistics reported between the two. For example, I note that you do not compare the murder rates between the two countries. For the record, total homocides in ALL OF CANADA last year: 548. The total in New York for '93 (since you brought that city up) (http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v04/n017/a03.html?397): 599.

Now call me crazy, but what I consider safer clearly is NOT the same as what you do. 50 fewer murders country-wide than in one city in the US, and that city is not even close to being the murder capital of your country.


Next question. Do you feel sure that what constitutes "violent crime" or even "property crime" is reported equivalently between both countries?

For the record, the crimes used in the US stats compiled by the FBI data are as follows (http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-218.html)


The U.S. Department of Justice provides two measures of the level and composition of crime in the United States. The Uniform Crime Report (UCR) summarizes the number of index crimes reported to (and recorded by) police. The index violent crimes are murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The index property crimes are burglary, larceny, and auto theft. The data on reported crimes are based on reports by local law enforcement agencies (those reports now cover 98 percent of the population), are summarized by political jurisdiction and the nation, and have been prepared on a consistent basis since 1960.

The National Criminal Victimization Survey (NCVS) reports estimates of the numbers of victims of major crimes. The estimates of violent crimes include rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault. The estimates of property crimes include larceny (theft) from individuals (with or without contact), household burglary, household larceny, and auto theft. Those estimates are based on an annual survey of 66 thousand households (with a 96 percent participation rate); are summarized by type of locality, major census region, and the nation; and have been prepared on a consistent basis since 1973.


Which raises another point - what if Canadians report crimes more than Americans? You know - because we don't worry about getting shot for reporting a B&E?

But back to the comparison, The Canadian stats, if you scroll down your page list the following:

Violent Crimes:
Homicide
Attempted murder
Assaults (Levels 1, 2, 3)
Other assaults
Sexual assaults (Levels 1, 2, 3)
Other sexual offences
Abduction
Robbery


Property Crimes:
Break and enter
Motor vehicle theft
Theft over $5,000
Theft $5,000 and under
Possession of stolen goods
Fraud

So clearly the Canadian Stats include many more crimes not included in the totals used to calculate the US rates.


In other words, you are A) blatantly incorrect in stating that crime rates are increasing in Canada, and b) comparing apples to oranges.


Nice try though.

Yeah, don't you know? Nobody cares about happiness-the America dream is to take all the money in the world, stuff it in your ears, stick out your toungue, and go "NYEAH!"



Though I must ask. If you're canadians, why ISN'T it Canadia? I'm half canadian, btw :p



Well.... just say Canadans out loud, or maybe Canadese, just doesn't sound right or roll of the tongue does it?

I know mine certainly does. The only thing I find wrong with Quebec (and Newfoundland and Alberta for that matter) is the damn seperatists. Seriously. I think we should string 'em all up. But Canada just isn't Canada without Quebec. They don't realise how good they have it, either.

Sevaris, where in the States do you live, so we can send JTF2 down there to smack 'em into line? ;)

American neo-conservatives hate Canada because they see it as what America could be. Lower crime, less guns, universal health care, racial equality, multiculturalism: it's like an American liberal's wet dream. They hate us because we show how good the States could be if they just tried to treat everyone (white, black, rich, poor) fairly. I know we have a little bit to go, and we aren't perfect, but who is? Quite frankly, I'm proud to be a Canadian, and every time an American says they want to move to Canada, I get a tad bit happier inside.

Well, then, let me make your day. I'm another American that would love to move to Canada, and would, too, in a heartbeat...if y'all would only turn up the heat a little bit up there!!

I live in Texas, and freeze at anything below 70 degrees, or I'd be gone in a second, up to Canada. You are so right that it is an American liberal's wet dream up there. If ONLY Canada had a way to more influence the United States...
Damn it all!

Canada, source of dangerous prescription drugs (unless, of course, your country finds itself short of flu shots, THEN Canadian flu shots are fine...) but NEVER should we cut into the American pharmaceutical companies' precious profits by importing those unsafe Canadian drugs (which of course were manufactured in America and shipped to Canada...yet they cost less) They are, of course, the same damn drug we get here...but half the price...can't let Americans undercut the pharmaceutical companies' bottom line like that!!

And of course, the freaking Bible-thumpers here in America...I hear that they are pretty bad like that in Alberta, too...maybe I'm wrong?? I mean, if they kept to themselves, lived their own lives, and stopped trying to force THEIR morals on ME...and stopped trying to control MY choices...well, then, I wouldn't have a problem with the Bible-thumpers.

Anyway, my point being...if y'all could just bump the heat up a little bit up there in Canada, you'd have another American ready to salute the Great Maple Leaf.

Well.... just say Canadans out loud, or maybe Canadese, just doesn't sound right or roll of the tongue does it?

Ive said Canandans for a while. I dunno. Its just when your saying Canada and Candaians a lot in one sentence, you start mixing things up. So i got rid of that problem XD

...if y'all could just bump the heat up a little bit up there in Canada, you'd have another American ready to salute the Great Maple Leaf.Thats why I will never ever consider becoming Canadian...They say you must "swear that You will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen of England"...(that is so retarded)

Besides that...they are a cool place...

Thats why I will never ever consider becoming Canadian...They say you must make an oath of lifetime allegiance to the Queen of England...(that is so retarded)

Besides that...they are a cool place...

LOL, and pledging allegiance to a piece of fabric (your flag) is less retarded?? just playin' :P

LOL, and pledging allegiance to a piece of fabric (your flag) is less retarded?? just playin' :PPledging allegiance to a Country...is less retarded than pledging allegiance to some senile old lady

Pledging allegiance to a Country...is less retarded than pledging allegiance to some senile old lady

Yes, but the pledge is to the flag first!

And if it was a King on the throne in the prime of his life, would it be retarded then? Seriously, swearing an oath of allegiance to a monarch is not really that outragious....

Anyways, I have no idea if you have to swear allegiance to the Queen anyways, I never have.....

Pledging allegiance to a Country...is less retarded than pledging allegiance to some senile old lady
i've never had to pledge to a queen. perks of being born here i guess.

Uh? The Liberals are far too Conservative to be allowed to rule. It's time for a radical change. The NDP would lead Canada to a better position in the world. The Liberals only want to give up more and more of Canada to capitalist nations like the US.. The Conservatives are even worse, they want to make Canada the 51st state. :/

I support the NDP fully (for now.)

http://popups.ctv.ca/content/publish/popups/ndp_leadership/images/jack_layton.jpg
[Soon to be] Prime Minister Jack Layton :)

http://www.ndp.ca/images/img_logo_w_slogan.gif
go ndp!

i voted ndp last federal election. one thing absolutely won me over: the promise to remove the gst from feminie hygene products.

though i was going to vote for them already for other reasons, that just clinched it.

i've never had to pledge to a queen. perks of being born here i guess.

Me neither. And neither have the people I know who have immegrated here.

Of course if you're worried about the tempature, then you can always spend half a year in the US and half of it in Canada, it's perfictly legal. I should know, my fiance and her entire Family are from southern Florida, and I've spent time there, as well as looked into how long you can spend in either country.
Of course you have to be either an American or Canadian citizen to enjoy that.
As for tempature, I live on the far East Coast of Canada, Nova Scotia to be exact, and the usual Augest tempature here is 40 degrees, which is like 104 ferenhight or something. That's not exactly cold.
Then again, avrage Febuary tempature is -40.

Soon to be Prime Minister Jack Layton

Ugh... *barfs* In your dreams, pal. If he gets rid of the creepy socialist stache and becomes a centrist candidate, maybe more people will vote for him. Otherwise... no.

And since that will never happen, I can assure you the NDP will always be the bronze medallist in any election ever held from now on.

OceanDrive - We don't actually make you pledge allegiance forever. You only have to say it that once and then you're fine. Unless you screwed up your immigration form and we catch it after you're in here. ;)

Bob Rae, yes, he did not follow through on some of his promises which was wrong, but he did help turn Ontario around, however unpopular his actions were.

I've never understood why Ontarians freaked over Bob Rae to the extent they elected that bum Harris. Harris carved the heart out of this province, polarized our society, and rammed legislation like amalgamation through Queen's Park in spite of the public outcry, in spite of lacking a mandate to do so. But heaven forbid, mention Bob Rae in an open space and you should hear people squawk. Like the guy was Typhoid Mary or something.

The night Rae and the NDP took official power, the entire building at Queen's Park was open to the public, with a garden party for all on the front lawn. Compare that to the Tories under Harris just a few years later - they'd had reinforced concrete barriers erected outside Queen's Park to keep the people out just in time for Mikey's big day.

It's surely no surprise to anyone that I'm an NDPer. Born and raised as such, it's true. While we'll never likely form the next federal government, I don't think we're at all a thing of the past. In fact, we might just play an even greater role in the next Parliament...

Canada is more of a peaceful blend of the world. America could only dream to have the level of low poverty rates and low crime rates and universal health care. Americans can only dream of a social safety net such as Canada has. Affordable housing, free medical & dental for the poor.

Yeah, I pay a little more tax then some in the United States, but I live in a country were no one has to go hungry unless they want to. So yeah, I guess I'm pretty proud of that!

Try saying that when your population has reached 280 million people.

At one point the US had a far better safety net then Canada...then we had more people..and more people tax the system greater because thats more that have to be paid for. See how your health system is when you have a larger eldery population no longer contributing to society...I can assure you the US knows full well what its like to have all of that. Our crime rates across the country are lower however medicare in this country will never be like it once was. It cant..because our population isnt 30 million...its 280-290 million.

Yes, but the pledge is to the flag first!

Its not so much the Flag but the Republic as a whole.

"I pledge of alligence to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands.."

The flag has a symbolic meaning in multiple ways. Much like your queen has a symbolic meaning of an Empire come and gone.

Pledging allegiance to a Country...is less retarded than pledging allegiance to some senile old lady

That's not a very nice thing to say about the old lady in question. It's also not very nice to use the word 'retarded' in a durogatory fashion.

Just saying.

Uh? The Liberals are far too Conservative to be allowed to rule. It's time for a radical change. The NDP would lead Canada to a better position in the world. The Liberals only want to give up more and more of Canada to capitalist nations like the US.. The Conservatives are even worse, they want to make Canada the 51st state. :/

I support the NDP fully (for now.)

http://popups.ctv.ca/content/publish/popups/ndp_leadership/images/jack_layton.jpg
[Soon to be] Prime Minister Jack Layton :)

http://www.ndp.ca/images/img_logo_w_slogan.gif


You're a good man, Al Anbar!

But getting back to American dislike for Canada, I really think that this goes hand-in-hand with Canadian dislike for Amerieca. It's a vicious cycle, really. We can't agree on anything from the political, military or religious level.

First of all, Canadians do not understand the self-fellation that is Patriotism. We see American broadcasts all the time, and we see American's cheering because they are Americans, and it's really something that doesn't make sense to us. Especially not when you have little to be so proud of when you have the USA PATRIOT act over your shoulders.

Land of the free... right

Canadians are resentful because we depend upon America for our trade. If America suddenly cut us off, our ability to export our produce would suffer and we'd be screwed. America doesn't have that same disadvantage (or would suffer a lot less if they were forced to cut trade with Canada). It is no secret that America's economy is stronger than ours.

Militarily, Americans are generally resentful toward Canada, because they see us as a freeloading country. We offer very little to the military might of the US, and yet we would expect them to aid us in our time of need. However, we did not "come to their aid" when the US led its Coalition of the Willing against Iraq.

Finally, Americans (especially republicans, but many conservative democrats as well) can't seem to wrap their minds around the freedoms that we have for our people. It seems that the very motto of "freedom, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" are being followed here in Canada as it really does seem as if we have more civil liberties than the US. For example, we allow gay marriages, and we are in the process of decriminalizing marijuana (though that still may take a while). And, we have a healthy suspicion toward big buisinesses.

The bottom line is, it is sometimes difficult for our two countries to remember that we are allies. In fact, we ought to be close friends. Its just that recently, we can't understand the intense concervatism of the US, and, it seems, neither can the US understand the liberalism of Canada.

Try saying that when your population has reached 280 million people.

At one point the US had a far better safety net then Canada...then we had more people..and more people tax the system greater because thats more that have to be paid for. See how your health system is when you have a larger eldery population no longer contributing to society...I can assure you the US knows full well what its like to have all of that. Our crime rates across the country are lower however medicare in this country will never be like it once was. It cant..because our population isnt 30 million...its 280-290 million.


No offence, but the population comparison is meaningless unless you had drasticly diferent demographics, income levels, unemployment rates, or other factors. We both are facing the retiring baby-boomers issue. We both have issues of poverty, health care, unemployment, etc. However your higher needs for total expenditures is offset by the higher tax base you have to cover it with. And, in actual fact, in most instances while these numbers are fairly comparable between our countries - they are actually WORSE in Canada, not better.

you want to complain about retired people no longer contributing?

From the CIA world factbook:

Canada:
Median age: 38.2
% of population over 65: 13%
Life expectacy: 79.66 years

USA
Median age: 36
% of population over 65: 12.4%
Life expectacy: 77.43 years

So Canada's population is older, has a higher percentage of retired people, and we need to support the elderly for 2 more years than you do.


If anything, actually, the larger population would make such programs MORE manageable in the US, not less. The economic term for this a basic factor called "economies of scale". With a higher population density, you could take advantage of efficiency factors that we cannot.


But you don't.

Well..emm....if some of you, including you want to move there it can't be all that bad. Eventhough the lot of them are evil communist bastards who wanted that traitor Kerry to be elected. Cause they can't deal with a REAL man like Bush. Kerry just went to Vietnam to further his political career. While Bush faithfully defended Texan airspace against VC bombers and paratroopers. ;)

PLEASE tell me you're being sarcastic!

And of course, the freaking Bible-thumpers here in America...I hear that they are pretty bad like that in Alberta, too...maybe I'm wrong?? I mean, if they kept to themselves, lived their own lives, and stopped trying to force THEIR morals on ME...and stopped trying to control MY choices...well, then, I wouldn't have a problem with the Bible-thumpers.
While Alberta may have a government that supports "strong family values" and a population that is very church-going, you will not find many people actively promoting religious conversion here. Even our Evangelicals are still Canadian, so you know they're polite to a fault. ;-)

Originally Posted by Stephistan
Yeah, I pay a little more tax then some in the United States, but I live in a country were no one has to go hungry unless they want to. So yeah, I guess I'm pretty proud of that!
Yeah, except for those 10% who are homeless, but we won't mention them. ;-)

"Canadians are resentful because we depend upon America for our trade. If America suddenly cut us off, our ability to export our produce would suffer and we'd be screwed. America doesn't have that same disadvantage (or would suffer a lot less if they were forced to cut trade with Canada). It is no secret that America's economy is stronger than ours"

Although it is true we depend on america for our trade, America also depends on us. Without the raw resources we supply for the prices we do the american economy would also take a decent hit.

Though I must ask. If you're canadians, why ISN'T it Canadia? I'm half canadian, btw :p
You've got it wrong. If a term has to be changed, it's "Canadian" as "Canada" was the name of the country before we called ourselves "Canadians". If you must change something, use "Canadans" or something.

Though I'd like to ask why is US citizen called "Americans". shouldn't it be "Staters", "Unitedians", "USers" or something? It's not like your the only people on the American continent, you know?

So Canada's population is older, has a higher percentage of retired people, and we need to support the elderly for 2 more years than you do.


If anything, actually, the larger population would make such programs MORE manageable in the US, not less. The economic term for this a basic factor called "economies of scale". With a higher population density, you could take advantage of efficiency factors that we cannot.


But you don't.

Again what do you think would be bigger?
13% of 32mil.
or 12% of 293 mil.

We're taking care of more old people then their are people in all of Canada. And thats just now, christ help the babyboomers when they retire. And no having a larger population doesnt make the programs more manageable. Back in the 1930s when social security was invented in the US it was managable because the senior population was small compared to the working population. And the ratio of working people supporting the retired was signifficantly higher than it currently is.

You've got it wrong. If a term has to be changed, it's "Canadian" as "Canada" was the name of the country before we called ourselves "Canadians". If you must change something, use "Canadans" or something.

Though I'd like to ask why is US citizen called "Americans". shouldn't it be "Staters", "Unitedians", "USers" or something? It's not like your the only people on the American continent, you know?
Youve got a point, i mean, going with the americas, You canadians are americans, them chicos down south is Americans, in fact, anyone on this land mass (from tip of chile to tip of alaska) is an American... Interesting.

Again what do you think would be bigger?
13% of 32mil.
or 12% of 293 mil.

We're taking care of more old people then their are people in all of Canada. And thats just now, christ help the babyboomers when they retire. And no having a larger population doesnt make the programs more manageable. Back in the 1930s when social security was invented in the US it was managable because the senior population was small compared to the working population. And the ratio of working people supporting the retired was signifficantly higher than it currently is.


You completely miss the flipside of the point. Which do you think is bigger? 88% of 293 million people helping support the elderly?

Or 87% of 32 million?

As a percentage of population you have fewer seniors for each able-bodied, employment-aged person to support. You also have a slightly higher median income which would tend to indicate that you are more able to afford such a safety net.

Absolute numbers don't mean anything in this case. It is the relative costs per person - which would be compareable between the two countries.

You don't have the safety net that we do for one reason only: you, as a country, choose not to have it.

Yeah, except for those 10% who are homeless, but we won't mention them. ;-)

I am aware we have homeless people. However, we also have shelters and food banks and welfare and a host of programs that never run out if you need them. Studies have shown that 99.9% of people who sleep outside in Canada or go hungry is because they choose to, either they don't know better because of mental illness or they are drug addicts etc. and choose to have "other" priorities. There is no reason any one in Canada need be hungry except choice.

However, where I feel we do fall short is in helping people with mental illness, many do indeed fall through the cracks. That is where we need more money to be spent. In identifying those homeless that are mentally ill, which makes up the majority and helping them.

For instance if you took the ratio of American population rural (not necessarily farmland but any population not at a city level) vs. urban and compared it to Canada you'd note that the ratio of Canadians living in cities is higher, and crime naturally occurs at a higher rate in cities.

The whole point was that someone wants to escape crime in the US by moving to Canada. What you are saying is that he'll be better off just moving to a smaller place within the US while in Canada he would be less likely to lve in a small place.

And saying that crime rates in Canadian Cities are higher than NYC's is an odd claim, could you quote a source?

The same source also has breakdown by provinces and cities. You can then find NYC statistics and compare. If I remember correctly, even Toronto is more dangerous than NYC and Vancouver is most definitely so.

Now call me crazy, but what I consider safer clearly is NOT the same as what you do. 50 fewer murders country-wide than in one city in the US, and that city is not even close to being the murder capital of your country.

Yes, I will call you crazy. Unless you live in a place like Colombia or worse, you are statistically very unlikely to be murdered, so you should not worry about that, and about the only realistic chance to become a victim of violence is to be assaulted. The chance of that is much higher in Canada (besides other factors, it may have to do with the fact that an American is much likelier to shoot you if you assault him).

Next question. Do you feel sure that what constitutes "violent crime" or even "property crime" is reported equivalently between both countries?

I looked specifically at burglaries and vehicle thefts (presumably the terms mean the same thing in all English-speaking countries), and the rate of both is much higher in Canada.

Oh, and in many categories the crime did indeed grow in 2003. But the larger point is that if Canada was indeed a crime free paradise compared to the US, it would be glaringly obvious from the statistics and you would not even be arguing what the meaning of "is" is.

P.S. Did I mention Canadian Third World health care system? Hospitals not only lack modern equipment, they are also plain filthy - in fact it is more dangerous to go to Canadian hospitals for treatment (because you can contract some lethal infection there - thousands of Canadians die that way every year) than to go fight in Iraq.

P.S. Did I mention Canadian Third World health care system? Hospitals not only lack modern equipment, they are also plain filthy - in fact it is more dangerous to go to Canadian hospitals for treatment (because you can contract some lethal infection there - thousands of Canadians die that way every year) than to go fight in Iraq.

I am sorry, but you clearly are on way too many drugs..lol seriously, you have no clue what you're talking about. You're either delusional or have been given some very bad information. :rolleyes:

You've got it wrong. If a term has to be changed, it's "Canadian" as "Canada" was the name of the country before we called ourselves "Canadians". If you must change something, use "Canadans" or something.

Though I'd like to ask why is US citizen called "Americans". shouldn't it be "Staters", "Unitedians", "USers" or something? It's not like your the only people on the American continent, you know?

C'mon East Canuck. We all know 'Canada' meant 'village', not what we call Canada today.

As for the States, well...

*flashes a smile*

who cares?

*runs away giggling*

Yes, I will call you crazy.

Quoth the kettle to the pot.

Yes, I will call you crazy. Unless you live in a place like Colombia or worse, you are statistically very unlikely to be murdered, so you should not worry about that, and about the only realistic chance to become a victim of violence is to be assaulted. The chance of that is much higher in Canada (besides other factors, it may have to do with the fact that an American is much likelier to shoot you if you assault him).


Well, and not to mention that - according to the FBI stats - almost 20% of what they call "aggravated assaults" include being shot. Indeed, only 26% of the aggravated assaults statistics are those where only fists, feet etc. were used as the weapon. In other words, beyond the murders over 162,000 Americans got shot last year

In Canada, shooting someone will automatically be listed under "attempted murder", of which there were a total 710 attempted murder charges country-wide last year.

The diference? Maybe it's just that a bar fight between a couple of patrons outside the premises in Canada is far more likely to wind up with a charge than in the US. People who don't go looking for trouble up here don't get into trouble. And if they do, it gets settled with fists.

Yes - I call that safer.


I looked specifically at burglaries and vehicle thefts (presumably the terms mean the same thing in all English-speaking countries), and the rate of both is much higher in Canada.


Agreed - they are higher.

P.S. Did I mention Canadian Third World health care system? Hospitals not only lack modern equipment, they are also plain filthy - in fact it is more dangerous to go to Canadian hospitals for treatment (because you can contract some lethal infection there - thousands of Canadians die that way every year) than to go fight in Iraq.

YEah - I know. That sure explains why we manage both a better infant mortality rate than the US, as well as better longevity.

It's because we have lousy health care....

:rolleyes:

P.S. Did I mention Canadian Third World health care system? Hospitals not only lack modern equipment, they are also plain filthy - in fact it is more dangerous to go to Canadian hospitals for treatment (because you can contract some lethal infection there - thousands of Canadians die that way every year) than to go fight in Iraq.[/QUOTE]

As someone who has travelled around the world I can honestly say that this is the most ridiculously wrong piece of tripe I have ever read.
In fact, the worst health care I have ever experienced, compared to Canada and countries like Australia, The UK, Greece, Egypt, Israel and Turkey was at a hospital in downtown Los Angeles.

I hate Canada because of the general attitude towards America. I have a Canadian uncle who came to live with my family for a couple of months (in Florida), and he was so full of shit it wasn't even funny. Every day all he ever talked about was how great Canada is; the healthcare system, the attitude, the politicians, the cities...it got to be aggravating as fuck. You know, I'm happy he's Canadian and even happier that he's excited about his heritage. However, it gets very old being told how bad your country sucks every day.

His attitude is similar to those of the Canadians on this board. They're over here yammering about American politics and bitching about this or that when they don't even live here! They're so negative about this country, its president, and its people, and that gets on my nerves. I don't give a shit about Canada. You guys can do what you want...elect whoever, smoke whatever, or give out complementary twinkies to all the immigrants...it isn't my problem. But I find it so frustrating when they're on these boards roasting the U.S. every time we take a breath.

I hate Canadians because of threads like this. I log on and check this thread, curious as to how Canadians will respond to the "why do Americans hate you" topic, and what do they say? "Canada is the better country, you only wish you could be like us." What an arrogant, elitist thing to say! That's why this here Floridian hates Canadians, and until they adjust their attitude, my opinion ain't gonna change.

I hate Canada because of the general attitude towards America. I have a Canadian uncle who came to live with my family for a couple of months (in Florida), and he was so full of shit it wasn't even funny. Every day all he ever talked about was how great Canada is; the healthcare system, the attitude, the politicians, the cities...it got to be aggravating as fuck. You know, I'm happy he's Canadian and even happier that he's excited about his heritage. However, it gets very old being told how bad your country sucks every day.

His attitude is similar to those of the Canadians on this board. They're over here yammering about American politics and bitching about this or that when they don't even live here! They're so negative about this country, its president, and its people, and that gets on my nerves. I don't give a shit about Canada. You guys can do what you want...elect whoever, smoke whatever, or give out complementary twinkies to all the immigrants...it isn't my problem. But I find it so frustrating when they're on these boards roasting the U.S. every time we take a breath.

I hate Canadians because of threads like this. I log on and check this thread, curious as to how Canadians will respond to the "why do Americans hate you" topic, and what do they say? "Canada is the better country, you only wish you could be like us." What an arrogant, elitist thing to say! That's why this here Floridian hates Canadians, and until they adjust their attitude, my opinion ain't gonna change.

You think NS = US? *suppresses laughter*

I'd hardly expect your opinion to change in any event, Oranges. But honestly, how else would you expect Canadians to respond to a thread called "Why Do Americans Hate You"?

You think we'd all start crying and asking nicely for you to quit slagging us? WTF is up with that? Don't get bent out of shape because people aren't responding the way you think they ought to, otherwise you'll be a very unhappy man.

Just goes to show how little you know about actually living and breathing in Canada. Not a whole bunch.

We have one TV station that has federal funds. ONE! We actually are capitalists, however we do have what is known as a social safety net to help our fellow man/women (I know, a strange concept to a conservative)

There is nothing wrong with our medical care. I really wish people would stop bitching about it. I have always had excellent care when I've been in hospital. Had two kids, and an operation some years back. See a doctor any time I wish, any doctor I wish. All I do is flash a card at them.

Sure nothing in life is free, it's built into our taxes and sure our taxes might be a little higher then that of the United States, but we get a lot more services for those taxes. If the majority of Canadians didn't want those extra services for their tax dollar, they wouldn't be there.

Canada is more of a peaceful blend of the world. America could only dream to have the level of low poverty rates and low crime rates and universal health care. Americans can only dream of a social safety net such as Canada has. Affordable housing, free medical & dental for the poor.

Yeah, I pay a little more tax then some in the United States, but I live in a country were no one has to go hungry unless they want to. So yeah, I guess I'm pretty proud of that!

Thanks dude! you took the words right out of my mouth!

I am so proud to be a Canadian, and likewise I have never experienced a problem with the healthcare system - in fact im sure if the two systems (US and Canadian) were compared, they would be surprisingly balanced, with strengths and weaknesses in different areas, the major difference is the availability - and I am proud to live in a country that truly cares about the people who need care the most.

You think NS = US? *suppresses laughter*

I haven't met a Canadian in the U.S. yet who hasn't bitched and whined about my country.

I'd hardly expect your opinion to change in any event, Oranges. But honestly, how else would you expect Canadians to respond to a thread called "Why Do Americans Hate You"?

How'd you expect a conservative American such as myself to reply in a thread where my country is being insulted?

You think we'd all start crying and asking nicely for you to quit slagging us? WTF is up with that? Don't get bent out of shape because people aren't responding the way you think they ought to, otherwise you'll be a very unhappy man.

I'm not bent out of shape dude. Just telling you why I can't stand Canadians or their country; because they can't help but harass me about mine. I only listed this thread as an example (EXAMPLE) of how most of the Canadians I've met have acted.

:) I don't see why Canada and the USA don't like each other very much. I mean, I'm from Australia, and New Zealand is like Australia's Canada. Sure, we love making Kiwi jokes every now and again, but it's all in good fun. We don't hate each-other, not by a long shot.

Just learn to get the hell along, all right? :fluffle:

I love american citizens for the most part, but i dont judge people by where they are from, my opinion of people is based on a persons personality, if a person (be it a fellow Canadian or a citizen of the US) is a narrow minded bigot, i probably wont give them a lot of respect. otherwise, its a level playing field, i think most Canadians and Americans are similar in this regard. Its sad that the truly extremist opinions are the ones reported though.

Now, American politics on the other hand, im not so pleased with, in particular, when they directly affect my life. I live in BC, and it is still recovering from the devastating effects of American foreign trade policies that have ruined nearly every main industry in my province. There again though, this is not reflective of the views of all Americans, just reflective of the greedy politicans who care not about destroying another country (or at least a region of said countr[ies]) economy.

I agree, we should all get a long, and I think that generally speaking we do.
Last year, I spent a week in Colorado at a seminar, and met people from all over the states, i was well recieved, welcomed as a peer, and was treated with the utmost of respect and admiration. I only hope that I was fair in delivering the same return.

I haven't met a Canadian in the U.S. yet who hasn't bitched and whined about my country.



How'd you expect a conservative American such as myself to reply in a thread where my country is being insulted?



I'm not bent out of shape dude. Just telling you why I can't stand Canadians or their country; because they can't help but harass me about mine. I only listed this thread as an example (EXAMPLE) of how most of the Canadians I've met have acted.

I truly hope you get a chance to meet more Canadians, perhaps you met some extemists - im sure youd like Canada and its inhabitants more if you just got the chance to meet some more of us and see our country.

While Alberta may have a government that supports "strong family values" and a population that is very church-going, you will not find many people actively promoting religious conversion here. Even our Evangelicals are still Canadian, so you know they're polite to a fault. ;-)

This is total and utter bullshit. Sorry, but it is.

meh, not all canada is out to grill the U.S.
I may not agree with some of the American policies or justifications for conflicts on the world seen, but i respect the United States for all it stands for. sure the U.S. has screwed up alot, but Canadians have too. I am happy to have the U.S. as my neighbor, but i'm also worried that our relations will go sour. Up here, American's can be seen as wild, gun-ho people, but that is because in Canada our culture is very different; with a smaller more diverse population. So ya........................ i guess thats all i have to say.

I hate Canada because of the general attitude towards America. I have a Canadian uncle who came to live with my family for a couple of months (in Florida), and he was so full of shit it wasn't even funny. Every day all he ever talked about was how great Canada is; the healthcare system, the attitude, the politicians, the cities...it got to be aggravating as fuck. You know, I'm happy he's Canadian and even happier that he's excited about his heritage. However, it gets very old being told how bad your country sucks every day.

His attitude is similar to those of the Canadians on this board. They're over here yammering about American politics and bitching about this or that when they don't even live here! They're so negative about this country, its president, and its people, and that gets on my nerves. I don't give a shit about Canada. You guys can do what you want...elect whoever, smoke whatever, or give out complementary twinkies to all the immigrants...it isn't my problem. But I find it so frustrating when they're on these boards roasting the U.S. every time we take a breath.

I hate Canadians because of threads like this. I log on and check this thread, curious as to how Canadians will respond to the "why do Americans hate you" topic, and what do they say? "Canada is the better country, you only wish you could be like us." What an arrogant, elitist thing to say! That's why this here Floridian hates Canadians, and until they adjust their attitude, my opinion ain't gonna change.

Please explain how being proud of being canadian constitutes ragging on america?
Also, we "bitch and Yammer" about american policies and politics because they directly effect us.
As for hating Canadians based on a thread and your uncle is a very small, biased sample size. Maybe you should educate yourself before you judge all of us.

In a more mature fashion, that's how. "We're better than you, you wanna be us" hardly constitutes a mature or even intelligent reply.

Well, at least you know what it's like for most Canadians, now. We get that line repeatedly from you guys.

All we ever hear about is how everybody and his monkey is just drooling at the prospect of living and working in the USA, where rainbows and horsehoes apparently fly out of everybody's arseholes and the streets are paved with fairy-poo.

After a while, or a lifetime, it gets your back up. And given the chance, yeah - who wouldn't want to stick up for what they know, in their hearts, is head and shoulders above the big lie of how great the US assumes we all think it to be.

Please explain how being proud of being canadian constitutes ragging on america?
Also, we "bitch and Yammer" about american policies and politics because they directly effect us.
As for hating Canadians based on a thread and your uncle is a very small, biased sample size. Maybe you should educate yourself before you judge all of us.

But that would be such an unAmerican thing to do...

Maybe you should've read my second post. It isn't based on this thread and my uncle alone. I've met far more Canadians than that.

Anyway, pride for your country is one thing; coming out and saying "Canada is far better than America" is another. You'd get insulted if I said "America is much better than Canada; Canada is total shit" because you live there, maybe grew up there. Nobody likes to hear their homecountry getting bashed. Shoot me for getting insulted.

Well, at least you know what it's like for most Canadians, now. We get that line repeatedly from you guys.

All we ever hear about is how everybody and his monkey is just drooling at the prospect of living and working in the USA, where rainbows and horsehoes apparently fly out of everybody's arseholes and the streets are paved with fairy-poo.

After a while, or a lifetime, it gets your back up. And given the chance, yeah - who wouldn't want to stick up for what they know, in their hearts, is head and shoulders above the big lie of how great the US assumes we all think it to be.

Bravo, well said.

Well, then, let me make your day. I'm another American that would love to move to Canada, and would, too, in a heartbeat...if y'all would only turn up the heat a little bit up there!!

I live in Texas, and freeze at anything below 70 degrees, or I'd be gone in a second, up to Canada. You are so right that it is an American liberal's wet dream up there. If ONLY Canada had a way to more influence the United States...
Damn it all!

Canada, source of dangerous prescription drugs (unless, of course, your country finds itself short of flu shots, THEN Canadian flu shots are fine...) but NEVER should we cut into the American pharmaceutical companies' precious profits by importing those unsafe Canadian drugs (which of course were manufactured in America and shipped to Canada...yet they cost less) They are, of course, the same damn drug we get here...but half the price...can't let Americans undercut the pharmaceutical companies' bottom line like that!!

And of course, the freaking Bible-thumpers here in America...I hear that they are pretty bad like that in Alberta, too...maybe I'm wrong?? I mean, if they kept to themselves, lived their own lives, and stopped trying to force THEIR morals on ME...and stopped trying to control MY choices...well, then, I wouldn't have a problem with the Bible-thumpers.

Anyway, my point being...if y'all could just bump the heat up a little bit up there in Canada, you'd have another American ready to salute the Great Maple Leaf.
You all fail to realize is that it is American Drug companies that do all the research and Canadien drug companies rip off American patents t osell those same drugs.The fact that Canada is a socialists nation causes there to be little research growth in the way of drugs and medical advances and there by have to rely on American ingenuity.I for one like Canada just not the politics of the Prime Minister. I am an unabashed Capitalists and anti Socialists...Have a good day all...

Well, at least you know what it's like for most Canadians, now. We get that line repeatedly from you guys.

All we ever hear about is how everybody and his monkey is just drooling at the prospect of living and working in the USA, where rainbows and horsehoes apparently fly out of everybody's arseholes and the streets are paved with fairy-poo.

After a while, or a lifetime, it gets your back up. And given the chance, yeah - who wouldn't want to stick up for what they know, in their hearts, is head and shoulders above the big lie of how great the US assumes we all think it to be.

But it's one thing to say you hear that all the time, and another thing to experience it. Canada is rarely mentioned on our televisions, in our newspapers, or even in conversations. Nobody gives a shit, where as Bush and American politics are always under Canadian attack. Take your fucking health advisor or whatever, trashing our health system a couple weeks ago.

His attitude is similar to those of the Canadians on this board. They're over here yammering about American politics and bitching about this or that when they don't even live here! They're so negative about this country, its president, and its people, and that gets on my nerves. I don't give a shit about Canada. You guys can do what you want...elect whoever, smoke whatever, or give out complementary twinkies to all the immigrants...it isn't my problem. But I find it so frustrating when they're on these boards roasting the U.S. every time we take a breath.


If you feel like we should mind our buisness and leave yours alone, kindly send a letter to the US ambassador to Canada to keep his mouth shut. Agains this month, he was speaking in the newspapers threathening us if we pursued our plans of decriminalising pot.

Until you do, expect me to complain about US politics and policies.

Speaking as a Canadian I have to say that the current US administration is insane...The things that they do is just insane. I have a fiancee that lives in California, so its obvious I dont hate Americans. But a Canadians view of America and American politics is like looking into the past...while on acid...

And as long as you complain and whine, the more reason I have to hate you. Funny how that works.

You all fail to realize is that it is American Drug companies that do all the research and Canadien drug companies rip off American patents t osell those same drugs.The fact that Canada is a socialists nation causes there to be little research growth in the way of drugs and medical advances and there by have to rely on American ingenuity.I for one like Canada just not the politics of the Prime Minister. I am an unabashed Capitalists and anti Socialists...Have a good day all...

I think you mean american drug companies shipping their product to Canada. We don't rip-off your patents.

You all fail to realize is that it is American Drug companies that do all the research and Canadien drug companies rip off American patents t osell those same drugs.The fact that Canada is a socialists nation causes there to be little research growth in the way of drugs and medical advances and there by have to rely on American ingenuity.I for one like Canada just not the politics of the Prime Minister. I am an unabashed Capitalists and anti Socialists...Have a good day all...
And you fail to realize that Canadian Drug companies are the SAME companies as the american ones. Hell, Pfizer is called Pfizer Canada. The medecine is cheaper here because the government is buying in bulk and is cutting deal with american companies for lower prices. It's capitalism at it's best.

And as long as you complain and whine, the more reason I have to hate you. Funny how that works.

Please excuse us for not fully supporting your quest for oil.

And as long as you complain and whine, the more reason I have to hate you. Funny how that works.
So you're one of these "Do as I say don't do as I do" kind of people...
Duly noted.

And as long as you complain and whine, the more reason I have to hate you. Funny how that works.

Who's complaining? I'm being highly entertained by YOUR whining and hatred.

I agree, it's a real knee-slapper. Do you do stand-up, too?

:rolleyes: *sigh*


I think this will be my last post, I have finished reading this forum, and although there are some good points, there is also a lot of unfounded personal opinion (on both sides I might add). Its sad to me that we cant just agree that there are some differences between Canada and the States, but that despite the differences, the two countries are very similar. We have (in general) the same values, our countries were founded on the same principles, and both countries consist of great people. Lets all go get a beer and be friends! I dont want there to be hard feelings between Canadians and Americans, we're neighbors, lets act like it!

I'll assume you're joking, Dakini. My Canada includes Quebec. Yours doesn't?

My Quebec does not include Canada... so, what do we do ? Do you force me to live with you ? Then, where is the liberty and fairness people are attributing to Canada ?

LET MY PEOPLE GO !!
- Moses :)

My Quebec does not include Canada... so, what do we do ? Do you force me to live with you ? Then, where is the liberty and fairness people are attributing to Canada ?

LET MY PEOPLE GO !!
- Moses :)
Leave. Pack up and move! Get the hell out! This is Canada, if you don't like it I suggest you leave

NNay has a point, just let them go. We must be fair afterall.

Although, we may have a hard time convincing the Quebec Indians to go with them, but lets worry about the consequences later, its more fun that way.

Wee!

but my good question is why do alot of canadians hate americans we accoun tfor what was it 75% of your exports? go to us. so then wouldn't it be you guys that really need us. don't bite the hand that feeds you. but i could have it wrong and we buy nothing from you and you guys don't need us and we need you

My Quebec does not include Canada... so, what do we do ? Do you force me to live with you ? Then, where is the liberty and fairness people are attributing to Canada ?

LET MY PEOPLE GO !!
- Moses :)

Does that also include the people you'd take with you? The ones who want to remain Canadian, like most of my family members who continue to live and work in Quebec? What about them?

You're free to come and go as you choose, with extensive liberties and fairness for all.

Let's not get caught up in divisiveness and feelings of being hard-done by. I was treated like a leper by all the 'Pur Laine' Quebecois little boys and girls when I grew up in Quebec. For all my efforts, I would never be anything more than a 'maudit anglais', and yes...rather than stay and take the racist BS, I left for Toronto and stayed.

Interestingly, one of the larger groups of immigrants we've seen in downtown Toronto are dispossessed, former Pequistes from Quebec, who've decided to give the whole Separatist schtick a miss and have found, much to their horror, that we don't actually have horns or cloven hooves. But they have also found meaningful employment, something that's hard to do in Quebec due to the economic uncertainty spread by the perpetual threat of political dissolution.

So - sorry, but Quebec is as much MY province as it is yours. My ancestors lost just as much blood, sweat, and tears building Quebec as yours did. Your ancestors may have been exploited in the past, I don't know. There's a lovely bit of revisionism that I've heard has become popular back home in Quebec - that after the 'dirty hanglos' defeated the french at the battle of the Plains of Abraham, that poor disenfranchised french farmfolk were forced to work in filthy english mills. Feh. Yes, people were exploited. French people were exploited. But so were English people, and Scots people, too. Who exploited them? Other French people. Other English people. Other Scots people.

'Cause guess what? It was a case of the wealthy exploiting the poor. It didn't have anything to do with language, religion, or culture. It was about money.

The history of the Scots in Quebec is in danger of being forgotten entirely. They may have spoken english, but they were not english people. Their contributions to modern Quebec go unsung, and apparently uncared for.

NNay, maybe you should leave Quebec long enough to satisfy yourself that we're as bad as Gilles Duceppe would have you believe. You might just find yourself pulling shoe-leather from your upper palette...

Leave. Pack up and move! Get the hell out! This is Canada, if you don't like it I suggest you leave

I think you get it wrong. You want me to leave the soil where I always lived. Do you really believe you have a right on this ground ? It is not yours, nor is it mine. But as long as I (and not you) live here, why don't you just let me decide what is good for me.

Québécois must really be a pain in the ass for you Canadians. Most of us don't want to live with us. We usually do not think like you do, as proove the surveys. Just think about the Bloc Québécois, can you stand them ? Always recriminating about this and that.
Are you different than Americans ? Yes, I suppose. But you have the same language, the same religion, the same origines. Québécois dont have the same language, the same religion, the same origins, the same culture and you still deny our right to take our own decisions about our own future.
One more thing, without Québec, your gouvernment would not be controled by Québécois : Trudeau, Chrétien, Martin (franco-ontarian with interest in Montréal : Canada Steamship Line) and Paul Desmarais. Realize it, you have not advantage to live with us ! lol
(by the way, I'm peacefuly making my point, I'm a pacifist, like all Québécois ! :p)

Well I have a question... If the Canadian Prime Minister was invited to dinner with the American President and his Staff, do you think we would demand that our Secret Service be able to do a full body cavity search/pat down on your heads of government? 'Cause thats what the Americans tried to do in Chile... and lemme tell you thats a HUGE insult to the Chileans, what with their massive amount of dignity. You simply cannot do that to foreign heads of governments, its insulting. Why does the United States feel they can force themselves upon everyone else... like the softwood lumber taxes... jeez I thought this was a free trade agreement. Oh yeah, your just bitter because we trade with Cuba and at least try to raise their standard of living just a tad.

I think you get it wrong. You want me to leave the soil where I always lived. Do you really believe you have a right on this ground ? It is not yours, nor is it mine. But as long as I (and not you) live here, why don't you just let me decide what is good for me.

Québécois must really be a pain in the ass for you Canadians. Most of us don't want to live with us. We usually do not think like you do, as proove the surveys. Just think about the Bloc Québécois, can you stand them ? Always recriminating about this and that.
Are you different than Americans ? Yes, I suppose. But you have the same language, the same religion, the same origines. Québécois dont have the same language, the same religion, the same origins, the same culture and you still deny our right to take our own decisions about our own future.
One more thing, without Québec, your gouvernment would not be controled by Québécois : Trudeau, Chrétien, Martin (franco-ontarian with interest in Montréal : Canada Steamship Line) and Paul Desmarais. Realize it, you have not advantage to live with us ! lol
(by the way, I'm peacefuly making my point, I'm a pacifist, like all Québécois ! :p)

And do you just speak on behalf of the pur laine or do you also speak on behalf of Quebecois proud to be Canadian, NNay?

Please explain to me why you a Québécois born in Canada and me a Norwegian born in Canada are not the same. I was forced to learn english, i was forced to learn the canadian system the same as you...

One more thing, without Québec, your gouvernment would not be controled by Québécois : Trudeau, Chrétien, Martin (franco-ontarian with interest in Montréal : Canada Steamship Line) and Paul Desmarais. Realize it, you have not advantage to live with us ! lol
(by the way, I'm peacefuly making my point, I'm a pacifist, like all Québécois ! :p)

Why do you assume Canadians are troubled by where there political leaders were born?

(By the way, not all Quebecois are pacifistic - unless you count the Van Doos as ice cream vendors)

NNay, maybe you should leave Quebec long enough to satisfy yourself that we're as bad as Gilles Duceppe would have you believe. You might just find yourself pulling shoe-leather from your upper palette...

I am not some back retarded french canadians who hates english people like you seem to pretend. If I were I would not even dare to speak your language. One does not need to be stupid to be separatist, and call themselves "pure laine". As for myself, I am fairly acquainted to the fact that I am a descendent of many races, and not only French. I have ontarians friends. Still I believe in the right of the People to determine their own destiny. I don't believe you're bad or anything like this. Canadians and Quebecois just are not the same, and they don't think the same, or else, why would we be argueing about then ?

(sorry for the miss-spelling, that's not my first language :p)

Is it possible that our only difference is created by our beloved government? Could it be that their so called equality is actually dividing us?

And yet America still gets bashed, despite the words exchanged here. I love it...insult the nation of America and tell us U.S. citizens how much we envy Canada, but get indignant when an American insults Canada. The fact of the matter is, Canadians are a bunch of whiners; you never shut up about America. That's why Americans (scuh as myself) can't stand you. Suck it up and stop crying about everything. Get over yourselves.

Nnay,

I was born Quebecois. Unless you think only a francophone can be Quebecois, that is.

I am Canadian.

I may live elsewhere to make my living, but Quebec is MY home, too. And my family's home. Our ancestral home in North America, as it so happens.

I've never slagged a francophone in my life. I can't say the same for the francophones I knew growing up in the province I love to this day, love that is, in spite of the racist bullshit that is allowed to fester and grow in Quebec.

I am not some back retarded french canadians who hates english people like you seem to pretend. If I were I would not even dare to speak your language. One does not need to be stupid to be separatist, and call themselves "pure laine". As for myself, I am fairly acquainted to the fact that I am a descendent of many races, and not only French. I have ontarians friends. Still I believe in the right of the People to determine their own destiny. I don't believe you're bad or anything like this. Canadians and Quebecois just are not the same, and they don't think the same, or else, why would we be argueing about then ?

Merf. Newfies are about as different from mainland Canada as Quebec. And we're constantly being raped by the other provinces for our resources with next to nothing in return (Thus why some Newfs want to leave Canada. Not over a cultural differance. A butchered version of french of all things!). For that matter, I bet BC iand it's people are a hell of a lot different then Ontario. I could go on with that all day. Oh! And putting aside provinces, how about races and backgrounds? Yup differences there too. Best start a sepratist group.

The whole Quebec vs. Canada bit is just a stupid twisting passing down of the hate and prejudice that developed back when Canada first formed and the English and French were at each other thoats for land.

The only thing i dont like about Canada is whenever Canadians talk to we Americans (EXPECIALLY on these boards) They have an air of superiority about them. Like Canada is the capital of the free world or something. Just a little reminder, your country may be more liberal, but only because American defended the free world against Nazism and Communism. Without us, the entire world would be going, "Heil Hitler!" or "Da, Comrade."

Besides that, Canada OWNZ!

(BTW-Canada is going to be screwed environmentally. Think about it. Within the Next 100 years humans are going to screw up the earth, and either most of Canadas cities(the ones touching water) will be submerged, OR Canada will be covered by a giant ice sheet, like in the LAST few Ice Ages we had.

Of course, in 100 years we'll all be dead. So meh.)

The only thing i dont like about Canada is whenever Canadians talk to we Americans (EXPECIALLY on these boards) They have an air of superiority about them. Like Canada is the capital of the free world or something. Just a little reminder, your country may be more liberal, but only because American defended the free world against Nazism and Communism. Without us, the entire world would be going, "Heil Hitler!" or "Da, Comrade."

Heh, first, uber thanks on the compliments to Canada, man. But... Please don't tell me you give into the Hollywood induced view that the US 'saved us all' in WWII? I'm not knocking America's accomplishments! By no means! But it's just not right. In truth Hitler was as good as defeated long before the US started playing an active role in the war by long years of the rest of the Allies fighting and the fact that Hitler signed his own ruination by attacking Russia. The US kinda came in, helped clean up with their fresh troops and through Hollywood and propaganda took credit for it all. Hey, I know they fought hard too! Many brave Americans died and I honour their help, but don't put their sacrafice over that of the rest of the Allies and say you won it for us.

Heh, first, uber thanks on the compliments to Canada, man. But... Please don't tell me you give into the Hollywood induced view that the US 'saved us all' in WWII? I'm not knocking America's accomplishments! By no means! But it's just not right. In truth Hitler was as good as defeated long before the US started playing an active role in the war by long years of the rest of the Allies fighting and the fact that Hitler signed his own ruination by attacking Russia. The US kinda came in, helped clean up with their fresh troops and through Hollywood and propaganda took credit for it all. Hey, I know they fought hard too! Many brave Americans died and I honour their help, but don't put their sacrafice over that of the rest of the Allies and say you won it for us.

Well, i think i was a bit over-stating. The ruskies(it pains me so very much to say it) caused the fall of Hitler, but we sure as hell speed up the process!

We actually single-handedly(well, ALMOST singlehandedly) crushed Japan. Yes, i know the Brits halted their invasion of India and that there were Brits in Malay and Singapore, but they soon lost those(im reering to Malay and SIngapore, of course. They defeated the Jappos at India and re-took alot of Burma.)And YES, i know the Ruskies declared war on Japan, during the last 2-3 weeks of the war. So in-turn we were saving us not from speaking German, but Jappanesse.

We also played a key role in WWI. We supplied the Allies(Anyone remember the Lusitania) and when we did come in we turned the tide. Yes, the Allies COULD have done it without us(and prolly woulda), but we ASSURED victory(and made it come alot faster. When you have a few million extra troops against a depleted Enemy, things tend to be in your favor.)

And you cant deny we won the cold war.

And yet America still gets bashed, despite the words exchanged here. I love it...insult the nation of America and tell us U.S. citizens how much we envy Canada, but get indignant when an American insults Canada. The fact of the matter is, Canadians are a bunch of whiners; you never shut up about America. That's why Americans (scuh as myself) can't stand you. Suck it up and stop crying about everything. Get over yourselves.

You must hate the rest of the world then. If you and the other 250 Million people in your nation actually listened to other countries you'd find out Canada isn't the only one who does not approve of US tactics... although you did listen to France. And what happened to France? You ridiculed them. You changed french fries to "Freedom Fries" because they disagreed with you. Lets not forget Freedom Toast.

Now really, is that how you guys respond to critisism? Through insults? The Americans crack jokes about France, and are beginning to crack jokes about Canada. Whats the link? Both Countries haven't been afraid to voice their opinions against American foreign policy.

Well, i think i was a bit over-stating. The ruskies(it pains me so very much to say it) caused the fall of Hitler, but we sure as hell speed up the process!

We actually single-handedly(well, ALMOST singlehandedly) crushed Japan. Yes, i know the Brits halted their invasion of India and that there were Brits in Malay and Singapore, but they soon lost those(im reering to Malay and SIngapore, of course. They defeated the Jappos at India and re-took alot of Burma.)And YES, i know the Ruskies declared war on Japan, during the last 2-3 weeks of the war. So in-turn we were saving us not from speaking German, but Jappanesse.

We also played a key role in WWI. We supplied the Allies(Anyone remember the Lusitania) and when we did come in we turned the tide. Yes, the Allies COULD have done it without us(and prolly woulda), but we ASSURED victory(and made it come alot faster. When you have a few million extra troops against a depleted Enemy, things tend to be in your favor.)

And you cant deny we won the cold war.

What a load of bullshit. Is that really the Mickey Mouse version of history they teach you in the US? That's too bad. Do you think that Heaven looks like Disneyland too?

What a load of bullshit. Is that really the Mickey Mouse version of history they teach you in the US? That's too bad. Do you think that Heaven looks like Disneyland too?

Flame-baiting. Not good.

Well, i think i was a bit over-stating. The ruskies(it pains me so very much to say it) caused the fall of Hitler, but we sure as hell speed up the process!

We actually single-handedly(well, ALMOST singlehandedly) crushed Japan. Yes, i know the Brits halted their invasion of India and that there were Brits in Malay and Singapore, but they soon lost those(im reering to Malay and SIngapore, of course. They defeated the Jappos at India and re-took alot of Burma.)And YES, i know the Ruskies declared war on Japan, during the last 2-3 weeks of the war. So in-turn we were saving us not from speaking German, but Jappanesse.

We also played a key role in WWI. We supplied the Allies(Anyone remember the Lusitania) and when we did come in we turned the tide. Yes, the Allies COULD have done it without us(and prolly woulda), but we ASSURED victory(and made it come alot faster. When you have a few million extra troops against a depleted Enemy, things tend to be in your favor.)

And you cant deny we won the cold war.

Heh, sorry if it sounded like I was overstating, but that was the same point I was trying to make about America's contribution too. Though America did crush Japan by dropping the very nuclear weapons they're tring to take from everyone else as well as by firebombing ten and tens of thousands of innocent civillians with no intended military target. If the US didn't hold the clout it does they'd be on some major warcrimes for that one.

But the US played -no more- of a key to victory in either war then did the Brits who decimated the Luftwaffa and fought longer then any. I never really researced amuch since I'm not the type to go looking for debat on things, but I'm sure if you looked into it you could point out any number of vastly important battles and things that other countries did that individually did as much as America. Take Canadians (Heh, yeah, a little patriotism as I'm Canadian ^.^). In fact on D-Day, Canada accomplishged more objectives then any other nation. Dosn't mean we won D-Day. All countries are just as pivitol as the rest.

I'm rusty on WWI knowledge though so I fear I can't say anything of worth to argue that, heh. I just know that once again the US was no saviour. A great help! But not the deciding factor.

Heh, as to the Cold War? Eh, that was all bunkem anyway to my eyes. Just two countries rattling sabers and such. Who's to say Communism is done right and given time wouldn't have worked better? Both systems, communist and Capitalist are corrupted, so eh. I'm kinda capitilist yeah, but who knows.

Heh, sorry if it sounded like I was overstating, but that was the same point I was trying to make about America's contribution too. Though America did crush Japan by dropping the very nuclear weapons they're tring to take from everyone else as well as by firebombing ten and tens of thousands of innocent civillians with no intended military target. If the US didn't hold the clout it does they'd be on some major warcrimes for that one.

But the US played -no more- of a key to victory in either war then did the Brits who decimated the Luftwaffa and fought longer then any. I never really researced amuch since I'm not the type to go looking for debat on things, but I'm sure if you looked into it you could point out any number of vastly important battles and things that other countries did that individually did as much as America. Take Canadians (Heh, yeah, a little patriotism as I'm Canadian ^.^). In fact on D-Day, Canada accomplishged more objectives then any other nation. Dosn't mean we won D-Day. All countries are just as pivitol as the rest.

I'm rusty on WWI knowledge though so I fear I can't say anything of worth to argue that, heh. I just know that once again the US was no saviour. A great help! But not the deciding factor.

Heh, as to the Cold War? Eh, that was all bunkem anyway to my eyes. Just two countries rattling sabers and such. Who's to say Communism is done right and given time wouldn't have worked better? Both systems, communist and Capitalist are corrupted, so eh. I'm kinda capitilist yeah, but who knows.


As much as i see you are a respectable person, and you *thankfully* havent begun flaming or such, i am afriad i have to disagree.

For one thing, the luftwaffe was destroyed by the USAF, the RAF, and the whatever the soviets had airforces combined.

While yes, the RAF destroyed quite a large chunk, the American Mustangs ruled the skies and the ruskies just obliterated the Luftwaffe in the east.

No offence, but Canada was given an easy beach(not that by "easy" i mean it was actually easy, but it sure as hell wasnt as tough as Omaha.) It may have completed more objectives, but thats because they didnt have to charge across a beach heavily-foritified by thousands of Germans with MG-42's. And barbed-wire. ALOT of barbed-wire.(This is in NO way meant to dis-respect the Canadanians.)

Of course, giving the Canadians Omaha would be stupid. There were WAY more Americans, so we had a chance. The Canadians would have fought bravely, but there were just too few.

In both world wars, if America hadnt constructed weapons for the allies, they would have lost. What use is an army after all if it isnt armed? Lets think of it this way.

The Battle of the Somme, WITHOUT U.S. Armamaments:

"Monsieur, the Germans are attacking!"
"E-gads! Hurry, rally to the defensive posistions!"
"Oui Monsieur!."

*French soldiers man defensive posistions with old 1860's era rifles, pitchforks, and slings.*

"Prepare for battle!"

*germans charge across field, seven are taken down by muskets. The rest charge into the trench and kill the remaining Frenchmen with their superior firearms.*

Not a deciding factor, eh?

No, but the Canadians did run into one of the only SS detachments in the area, if memory serves me right. Either SS or Panzer.

No, but the Canadians did run into one of the only SS detachments in the area, if memory serves me right. Either SS or Panzer.

Ouch.

But heres the big question: Were there thousands of SS behind a giant wall with a Machine gun every couple of feet, and were there thousands of mines and barbed wire?

In both world wars, if America hadnt constructed weapons for the allies, they would have lost. What use is an army after all if it isnt armed? Lets think of it this way.

And without the Allies using those weapons and fighting their hearts out for years before the US joined, Germany would have taken more land and the States alone wouldn't have dug them out. I'm not saying that without the aid of supplies we still would have won. But neither would the States have done much without the aid of their Allies. Who's to say? Without US supplies perhaps other countries would have started turning out even more themselves and nothing would have changed. Look at how Hitlers bombing of Britian's cities drove the civilians to a strong sense of purpose and they started turning out more and more supplies for their forces. It's a whatif game. You could again prolly find similar statements to the one you mentioned in regards to other nations that without which Germany would have won.

Heh, yeah Juno beach was easier I guess, not knowing all there is to know. I just threw that in as the only example that came off my head. I'm not a huge war buff though I like bits of the history. But none the less, other countries were just as vital as the States and I fear I still don't hold them as our saviours.

The US did have better planes. But for the most part as history here is taught, British RAF did the biggest chunk of protecting the skies over the channel. But then History books and such in any nation I would guess are as biased and self serving as a Micheal Moore film. You can get a good chunk of facts but loaded with twisted representations and loaded facts.

I'm just saying that lack of any of the countries that fought for us would have prolly caused the downfall of the Allies. The US wasn't the be all and end all in the war. Without Britian, the world would have been just as doomed, thus just as key. And that goes for all nations involved.

Oh and thanks kindly for showing the same respect. I do like to debate and such sometimes and kinda hate how so few show respect for the others views. I may believe differenly then you and never agree to a point but I respect your opinion as well as any, heh. ^_^

What?! The crime is rising IN CANADA and DECLINING in the US. Oh, and by the way, the US actually has MUCH lower crime than Canada. The violent crime rate in Canada is MORE THAN DOUBLE that in the US (963 and 475 per 100,000 population, respectively, in 2003) and property crime rate is also much higher (4,121 vs. 3,588.4 per 100,000). Seriously, compare official statistics: http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d040728a.htm and http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel04/crimestat102504.htm (both are official government sites, so presumably the numbers are correct). Just about any Canadian city has higher crime rate than the New York City, for crying out loud! The myth of "safe Canada" is just that - a myth.

You sir, are talking out your ass.

The comparison is only accurate if the definition of 'violent crime', the way in which the statistics are gathered, the participation rate of all jurisdictions and the methodology for the tabulation of the statistical data is identical in both Canada and the U.S.

Not similar, but identical.

This is further evidence that satistics are the whores of the mathematical world.

But what do I know? I'm the product of the Canadian educational system. I'm probably a closet socialist, and Canada's craptastic health care has wrecked my brain. And I smoke weed. And I don't care if gay people marry each other. And I don't even own a gun.

I'm soooo fucked 'cause I'm not American.

And without the Allies using those weapons and fighting their hearts out for years before the US joined, Germany would have taken more land and the States alone wouldn't have dug them out. I'm not saying that without the aid of supplies we still would have won. But neither would the States have done much without the aid of their Allies. Who's to say? Without US supplies perhaps other countries would have started turning out even more themselves and nothing would have changed. Look at how Hitlers bombing of Britian's cities drove the civilians to a strong sense of purpose and they started turning out more and more supplies for their forces. It's a whatif game. You could again prolly find similar statements to the one you mentioned in regards to other nations that without which Germany would have won.

Heh, yeah Juno beach was easier I guess, not knowing all there is to know. I just threw that in as the only example that came off my head. I'm not a huge war buff though I like bits of the history. But none the less, other countries were just as vital as the States and I fear I still don't hold them as our saviours.

The US did have better planes. But for the most part as history here is taught, British RAF did the biggest chunk of protecting the skies over the channel. But then History books and such in any nation I would guess are as biased and self serving as a Micheal Moore film. You can get a good chunk of facts but loaded with twisted representations and loaded facts.

I'm just saying that lack of any of the countries that fought for us would have prolly caused the downfall of the Allies. The US wasn't the be all and end all in the war. Without Britian, the world would have been just as doomed, thus just as key. And that goes for all nations involved.

Oh and thanks kindly for showing the same respect. I do like to debate and such sometimes and kinda hate how so few show respect for the others views. I may believe differenly then you and never agree to a point but I respect your opinion as well as any, heh. ^_^

Ok, i think we can agree on ONE(well, two) thing(s).

1. Respectful debates are FUN! :D

2. The U.S. played a key role, but so did Britain and the other allies. Without either(the U.S. or the other allies) the war would have been lost. TOGETHER, they could win.

The American Contribution to WWI was little more than a morale boost, and not that much of one from what I gather from British, Canadian, and French War Journals.

WW2 on the Otherhand . . . no single country won the war, but Britain, Russia, and America were crucial. Each of those three countries were equally crucial in the war effort.

Russia on the surface seems to be the most important, but the Americans were providing them with a significant portion of their supplies and equipment, and it was principally the British who transported it from Britain to the Russian coast . . . the escorts being primarily American Destroyers traded to the British. Take out one of those three, and the Allied effort would have crumbled.

In regards to the cold war . . . well, why not give it to the U.S.A.? They "won" the war without firing a shot . . . though it was touch and go for a while there.

Fortunately, Canada decided to be the best of both worlds with a Socialist Democratic Constitutionalist Monarchy! :D

You sir, are talking out your ass.

The comparison is only accurate if the definition of 'violent crime', the way in which the statistics are gathered, the participation rate of all jurisdictions and the methodology for the tabulation of the statistical data is identical in both Canada and the U.S.

Not similar, but identical.

This is further evidence that satistics are the whores of the mathematical world.

But what do I know? I'm the product of the Canadian educational system. I'm probably a closet socialist, and Canada's craptastic health care has wrecked my brain. And I smoke weed. And I don't care if gay people marry each other. And I don't even own a gun.

I'm soooo fucked 'cause I'm not American.


I never EVER thought id say this (we usually strongly dis-agree on political issues), but:

"You go Groovy Tuesdays!"

The American Contribution to WWI was little more than a morale boost, and not that much of one from what I gather from British, Canadian, and French War Journals.

WW2 on the Otherhand . . . no single country won the war, but Britain, Russia, and America were crucial. Each of those three countries were equally crucial in the war effort.

Russia on the surface seems to be the most important, but the Americans were providing them with a significant portion of their supplies and equipment, and it was principally the British who transported it from Britain to the Russian coast . . . the escorts being primarily American Destroyers traded to the British. Take out one of those three, and the Allied effort would have crumbled.

In regards to the cold war . . . well, why not give it to the U.S.A.? They "won" the war without firing a shot . . . though it was touch and go for a while there.

Fortunately, Canada decided to be the best of both worlds with a Socialist Democratic Constitutionalist Monarchy! :D

Heh, you're right!

Unfortunatly, its a Socialist Democratic Constitutionalist Monarchy with separatists in it. Which is bad.

Other wise, GO CANADA!

(i had something else to say but...i forgot :D)

(Oh yeah, i remember!

Your name is "The Isthmus", correct?

Which Isthmus?)

The American Contribution to WWI was little more than a morale boost, and not that much of one from what I gather from British, Canadian, and French War Journals.

WW2 on the Otherhand . . . no single country won the war, but Britain, Russia, and America were crucial. Each of those three countries were equally crucial in the war effort.

Russia on the surface seems to be the most important, but the Americans were providing them with a significant portion of their supplies and equipment, and it was principally the British who transported it from Britain to the Russian coast . . . the escorts being primarily American Destroyers traded to the British. Take out one of those three, and the Allied effort would have crumbled.

In regards to the cold war . . . well, why not give it to the U.S.A.? They "won" the war without firing a shot . . . though it was touch and go for a while there.

Fortunately, Canada decided to be the best of both worlds with a Socialist Democratic Constitutionalist Monarchy! :D

:) That's as good a take on it as any and much along the lines of what I was rambling dumbly about. Thanks! I'm so bad and articulating thoughts. :(

We are kinda a monarchy in name only though. The Queen's a figurehead here and holds pretty much no sway outside of choosing a Govoner General, who's also more a figure head then actual political figure and is selected on reccomendation of the Prime Minister. ^_^;;

Ok, i think we can agree on ONE(well, two) thing(s).

1. Respectful debates are FUN! :D

2. The U.S. played a key role, but so did Britain and the other allies. Without either(the U.S. or the other allies) the war would have been lost. TOGETHER, they could win.

:D Heee! Yay, we agree! That, my friend was the only point I really wished to make. There was no 'saving your butt' but rather a group effort. I just blather and can't say things very concise. ^_^;;;;

:D Heee! Yay, we agree! That, my friend was the only point I really wished to make. There was no 'saving your butt' but rather a group effort. I just blather and can't say things very concise. ^_^;;;;

Excelent!

Lets do da' Chicken dance!

I know mine certainly does. The only thing I find wrong with Quebec (and Newfoundland and Alberta for that matter) is the damn seperatists. Seriously. I think we should string 'em all up. But Canada just isn't Canada without Quebec. They don't realise how good they have it, either.

Sevaris, where in the States do you live, so we can send JTF2 down there to smack 'em into line? ;)

American neo-conservatives hate Canada because they see it as what America could be. Lower crime, less guns, universal health care, racial equality, multiculturalism: it's like an American liberal's wet dream. They hate us because we show how good the States could be if they just tried to treat everyone (white, black, rich, poor) fairly. I know we have a little bit to go, and we aren't perfect, but who is? Quite frankly, I'm proud to be a Canadian, and every time an American says they want to move to Canada, I get a tad bit happier inside.

Ok Maybe i should move to canada but let me ask you this, is Marijuana legal up there, really looking forward to some of that canadian herb!! :cool:

Ok Maybe i should move to canada but let me ask you this, is Marijuana legal up there, really looking forward to some of that canadian herb!! :cool:
Not yet, pal. Not yet. The plant may be British Columbias #1 export, but we're still waiting on that one.

Ok Maybe i should move to canada but let me ask you this, is Marijuana legal up there, really looking forward to some of that canadian herb!! :cool:

It is presently only legal with a doctor's presciption. I manage an apartment building with 10 units, and amazingly almost 50% of the residents seem to have medical conditions requiring marijuana. :)

Weed is Decriminalised here, up to and including 3 Grams

but headway is being made to legalise it

Not yet, pal. Not yet. The plant may be British Columbias #1 export, but we're still waiting on that one.

Well if it is British Columbias #1 export then why is it i cant find any here in texas, all they have here is mexican dirt weed :mad:

Weed is Decriminalised here, up to and including 3 Grams

but headway is being made to legalise it

well 3 grams doesnt last very long specially if your married to a real ugly woman :headbang:

Well if it is British Columbias #1 export then why is it i cant find any here in texas, all they have here is mexican dirt weed :mad:
I'm thinking it's consumed between BC and Texas... or they find it easier to get the Mexican dirtweed and don't bother trying for the long distance deal.

I live in Alaska, and I spent time Canada last year. I LOVED it! It was a great and beautiful place. I lived in the lower 48 for 17 years, and I don't miss it at all...all the crime, poverty, and such. Also I would like you people in the lower 48 to know that here in Alaska, we call the lower 48 "outside", and anyone who lives there is refered to as an "outsider". Also, socialised medecine would be great, since 44,000,000 americans go without healthcare, that is approximatley 15 percent (based upon a population of 290,000,000).....
LONG LIVE ALASKA, BASTION OF FREEDOM, AND TONS OF FEDERAL DOLLARS!!! :headbang:

The whole point was that someone wants to escape crime in the US by moving to Canada. What you are saying is that he'll be better off just moving to a smaller place within the US while in Canada he would be less likely to lve in a small place.

Well obviously it'd be safer to live in the country vs. cities, that's just common sense......

The same source also has breakdown by provinces and cities. You can then find NYC statistics and compare. If I remember correctly, even Toronto is more dangerous than NYC and Vancouver is most definitely so.

I asked you to provide the source, not provide vague (and questionable) statistics you MAY remember from it. What about the source I provided? Did you look at it?

P.S. Did I mention Canadian Third World health care system? Hospitals not only lack modern equipment, they are also plain filthy - in fact it is more dangerous to go to Canadian hospitals for treatment (because you can contract some lethal infection there - thousands of Canadians die that way every year) than to go fight in Iraq.

OK, please quote SOME source for this slander. Have you even been to a Canadian hospital? Even in the smallest, poorest province Prince Edward Island (where I live), we have two full service hospitals with brand new MRI's, radiology departments, state of the art network technology, etc.... Not to mention we have 6 community hospitals to handle less serious medical treatments. And this is for a popluation of 125,000.

Seriously, stop listening to political propaghada and do you own research....

I hate Canada because of the general attitude towards America. I have a Canadian uncle who came to live with my family for a couple of months (in Florida), and he was so full of shit it wasn't even funny. Every day all he ever talked about was how great Canada is; the healthcare system, the attitude, the politicians, the cities...it got to be aggravating as fuck. You know, I'm happy he's Canadian and even happier that he's excited about his heritage. However, it gets very old being told how bad your country sucks every day.

Why? Does the truth hurt? This country DOES suck...and, yes, I am an American saying this. Damn, I wish we were more like Canada...except, of course, the rotten cold weather. They can KEEP that!

I think Canada has a LOT to be proud of. They do not oppress their homosexuals, they do not deny rights to a group of people for no better reason than that they just make some people feel "icky." They have free healthcare, and no one goes hungry. What I do not understand is the conservatism that seems rampant in America. It's so fucking selfish and greedy, and arrogant, and elitist, and pig-headed.

Damn, like I say, if Canda would just do something about their weather, I'd be gone for Canada quicker than you could fart and say Mississippi!

Quoth the kettle to the pot.
Mmmm, pot.

Thats why I will never ever consider becoming Canadian...They say you must "swear that You will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen of England"...(that is so retarded)

Besides that...they are a cool place...


Actually, the Queen is only an official thing we keep for various reasons, but mainly cause we have nothing to replace her with (Plus she's really very cool, she changes her own oil !!) In fact, although some people seem to think I'm wrong (If you know for sure, feel free to correct me) even though she is officially the head of state, even if she was in the country when a bill was passed, she couldn't sign it into law, only her representative, the Govenor General, could. She's just a formality.

:rolleyes: *sigh*


I think this will be my last post, I have finished reading this forum, and although there are some good points, there is also a lot of unfounded personal opinion (on both sides I might add). Its sad to me that we cant just agree that there are some differences between Canada and the States, but that despite the differences, the two countries are very similar. We have (in general) the same values, our countries were founded on the same principles, and both countries consist of great people. Lets all go get a beer and be friends! I dont want there to be hard feelings between Canadians and Americans, we're neighbors, lets act like it!

Fuck the beer, gimme some of that kick-ass hard cider shit they serve up in Canada. that stuff is Grrrrrreat!!! :p

This is total and utter bullshit. Sorry, but it is.
Curious. What part of Alberta are you from, then? I've never encountered any attempts at religious conversion in my 44 years here.

Curious. What part of Alberta are you from, then? I've never encountered any attempts at religious conversion in my 44 years here.
One has to wonder if there is many non-christian in Alberta. It's rather hard to convert people already converted.

Having never been there, I don't know.

meh, not all canada is out to grill the U.S.
I may not agree with some of the American policies or justifications for conflicts on the world seen, but i respect the United States for all it stands for. sure the U.S. has screwed up alot, but Canadians have too. I am happy to have the U.S. as my neighbor, but i'm also worried that our relations will go sour. Up here, American's can be seen as wild, gun-ho people, but that is because in Canada our culture is very different; with a smaller more diverse population. So ya........................ i guess thats all i have to say.


You took the words right out of my mouth. I have a great deal of respect for most americans. Any american I have met has been very polite, very kind people. But, I don't like many of their policies, both inside and out of the country. That is a product of living in a different culture with different values. Just cause I hate Bush and love Nader (he is very Canadian, and a great man, he is the only reason any cars in the US get tested for safety), that dosen't mean I hate Americans, far from it. You are a great people with many fine atributes.

Québécois must really be a pain in the ass for you Canadians.
They are kind of a non-entity where I live, actually. A curiosity.

One has to wonder if there is many non-christian in Alberta. It's rather hard to convert people already converted.
That's a fine point. Perhaps that's why it's not been evident.

You know, I do not understand for the life of me why Canada's existence angers so many of my fellow countrymen- I mean, at my high school, people refer to it as "CANADIA" and "QUEBECKYIAN FRENCHIES"- and that we should nuke them.

I, for one, do not understand this. Canada comes from the same democratic traditions that America does (Great Britain), and is a generally nice country. I mean, sure some of us (including me) want to move to Canada, but does that make it a bad country? No. Just my thoughts, feel free to add or comment.

I had that same problem in my highschool,and it pissed me off to no end. I tried explaining to people that Canada's a great place, and full of great people. Once in a while I'd get really annoyed if they made fun of the fact that my girlfriend (now fiancee) is Canadian.

I,too, want to move to Canada. My mother called me a traitor, when I said I was willing to renounce my American citizenship. I tried to explain that this country is not the great country she's believes it is..it has its flaws, and has lots of room for improvement. Also, there IS the fact that I've got someone there for me..

I had that same problem in my highschool,and it pissed me off to no end. I tried explaining to people that Canada's a great place, and full of great people. Once in a while I'd get really annoyed if they made fun of the fact that my girlfriend (now fiancee) is Canadian.

I,too, want to move to Canada. My mother called me a traitor, when I said I was willing to renounce my American citizenship. I tried to explain that this country is not the great country she's believes it is..it has its flaws, and has lots of room for improvement. Also, there IS the fact that I've got someone there for me..

Wow, harsh Mom you've got there. She think your GF is poisoning you against democracy, or somesuch?

Wow.

As I stated before, Canada is a cool place, but i would NEVER want to be a Canadian. I love the U.S. deeply. I come from a Diplomat family(currently stationed in Panama: The land that Software laws forgot), and it has done nothing but solidfy my love for the nation. Sure, we have our problems, but when you have 250,000,000+ people, are the worlds ONLY superpower, and are waging a global war against terrorism amongst other things, its kinda hard to keep everything perfect. No matter its problems, the U.S. is still a great country. We are the leaders of the free world, we were the first Democratic country in more than 2,000 years, we are the richest, most powerful, and most influental nation in the world. We are just going through some rough times.

Now sure, when I work for the State Department I wouldnt mind getting stationed in Canada, but i dont think id want to live there for more than 3 or 4 years. Why? I can hardly stand living in the U.S., and since Canada is similar to the U.S. in many ways(dont deny it), i dont think i could stand living in Canada for too long. I prefer Africa or Asia, so dont take it personally. I just find all of the Americas, Europe, and Australia too boring.

No matter its problems, the U.S. is still a great country. We are the leaders of the free world, we were the first Democratic country in more than 2,000 years, we are the richest, most powerful, and most influental nation in the world. We are just going through some rough times.

You're the leaders of the free world, are you?

I don't remember voting for you.

Funny. Isn't it.

You're the leaders of the free world, are you?

I don't remember voting for you.

Funny. Isn't it.

Well, seeing how we were the first free nation without a dictatorship(Aka Monarchy). And how we defeated the Soviet Union, and played a Key role in defeating the Germans in both world wars. And how we destroyed the Japanese empire. And how we are the sole super-power. And how we are the richest nation in the world.

I guess that makes us MORE than qualified.

Who else would you choose?

As I stated before, Canada is a cool place, but i would NEVER want to be a Canadian. I love the U.S. deeply. I come from a Diplomat family(currently stationed in Panama: The land that Software laws forgot), and it has done nothing but solidfy my love for the nation. Sure, we have our problems, but when you have 250,000,000+ people, are the worlds ONLY superpower, and are waging a global war against terrorism amongst other things, its kinda hard to keep everything perfect. No matter its problems, the U.S. is still a great country. We are the leaders of the free world, we were the first Democratic country in more than 2,000 years, we are the richest, most powerful, and most influental nation in the world. We are just going through some rough times.

Not to start bashing the US but using the war as an excuse for the problems of the US is, in my mind, is specious reasoning. The problems were there before and are just not talked so much because of the war. The war has only added problems on top of an already long list.

First democratic country: How about Greece? Switzerland? The UK? This is one of the main gripe I have about the americans on these boards. They are under the delusion that they are the only one who can do something good. (as further proven by your statements about WW1 and WW2). Some posters need a good dose of reality-check.

Well, seeing how we were the first free nation without a dictatorship(Aka Monarchy). And how we defeated the Soviet Union, and played a Key role in defeating the Germans in both world wars. And how we destroyed the Japanese empire. And how we are the sole super-power. And how we are the richest nation in the world.

I guess that makes us MORE than qualified.

Who else would you choose?

Well, a Monarchy is not by definition a dictatorship, just FYI there. Most everything else you've listed pertains to armed conflict, or the dividends thereof.

Is that all it takes to qualify you as the unelected leaders of parts of the world you consider to be free? Guns and money?

That's awfully shaky grounds for superiority, moral or otherwise.

I'd choose not to care about such things as this. But what would I know, eh?

Not to start bashing the US but using the war as an excuse for the problems of the US is, in my mind, is specious reasoning. The problems were there before and are just not talked so much because of the war. The war has only added problems on top of an already long list.

First democratic country: How about Greece? Switzerland? The UK? This is one of the main gripe I have about the americans on these boards. They are under the delusion that they are the only one who can do something good. (as further proven by your statements about WW1 and WW2). Some posters need a good dose of reality-check.

1. It was just ONE reason. I said it was only one problem on a list.

2. Greece was the first democracy...2,000 years ago!

The UK=Was still ruled by a Monarch. Sure, the parliament could do stuff, but the king held the REAL power.

Switzerland=no one cares about switzerland. All its ever done is defend the Vatican.

And what do you mean a dulision about WWI and WWII!?!?!? We defeated the Japs, and we played a key role in defeating the axis. Who deployed the most troops for the allies(well,the non-communist allies)? Who made the weapons? Who flew the planes? Who used Nukes? What did the Brits do in the Pacific? Lets see...

British Victories in the Pacific: 1(defeating the Jap invasion of India).

American Victories: too many to count.

And DONT say the Japs were weaker than the Nazis. They had a massive navy, airforce, and army. The Japs were the most powerful nation in Asia(and that includes China and the Soviet Union.)

Well, a Monarchy is not by definition a dictatorship, just FYI there. Most everything else you've listed pertains to armed conflict, or the dividends thereof.

Is that all it takes to qualify you as the unelected leaders of parts of the world you consider to be free? Guns and money?

That's awfully shaky grounds for superiority, moral or otherwise.

I'd choose not to care about such things as this. But what would I know, eh?

Ok, so youd rather we didnt fight in WWI, WWII, and defeat the soviets?

Youd rather be speaking in either Japanese, German, or Russia now?

Youd rather be either in a Facist Dictatorship or a Communist one?

Wow, you sure do like your freedom...

Well, seeing how we were the first free nation without a dictatorship(Aka Monarchy).
Ancient Greece
And how we defeated the Soviet Union,
Who collapsed by themselves. Not to mention that you did have help from other capitalistic countries...

and played a Key role in defeating the Germans in both world wars.
among many others...

And how we destroyed the Japanese empire.
Who is doing pretty good for themselves, thank you very much.

And how we are the sole super-power.
Who use is power to bully others and remove democracies to put in place dictatorships.

And how we are the richest nation in the world.
China's coming along well just now. Also, the European Union can give you more than a run for your money.

I guess that makes us MORE than qualified.
And your constant disrespect of internationnal treaties, Geneva conventions disregard, bully actions in foreign policies, raping of the environnement, crime and murder rate, use of the death penalty disqualify you as a World leader as they are world facts that indicate to us that you are not fit to rule.

Who else would you choose?
Pick your pick, right now I'm leaning on Australia.

1. It was just ONE reason. I said it was only one problem on a list.

And I say that this particular reason does not help in any way, shape or form your argument. Quite the contrary, it hinders it.

2. Greece was the first democracy...2,000 years ago!

Ah but your claim was:
we were the first Democratic country in more than 2,000 years
Which, as proven is false.

The UK=Was still ruled by a Monarch. Sure, the parliament could do stuff, but the king held the REAL power.

Switzerland=no one cares about switzerland. All its ever done is defend the Vatican.

So you only choose to count the examples who proove your points... interesting.

And what do you mean a dulision about WWI and WWII!?!?!? We defeated the Japs, and we played a key role in defeating the axis. Who deployed the most troops for the allies(well,the non-communist allies)? Who made the weapons? Who flew the planes? Who used Nukes? What did the Brits do in the Pacific? Lets see...

British Victories in the Pacific: 1(defeating the Jap invasion of India).

American Victories: too many to count.

And DONT say the Japs were weaker than the Nazis. They had a massive navy, airforce, and army. The Japs were the most powerful nation in Asia(and that includes China and the Soviet Union.)

By disillusion, I mean that the US SINGLEHANDEDLY won these wars. In both these wars the argument can be made that the allied forces would have won without the US help. And while you were busy selling equipment in WW2 the Chinese and russians were already fighting the Japs. You came in when the Japs were out of ressources to continue the war effort. Don't you come telling me you did it all by yourself, mister. History remembers a different war than the US.

Pick your pick, right now I'm leaning on Australia.

....

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!!!

Whew, im sorry, *giggle*, its just that you expect AUSTRALIA to defend you from the hordes of anti-westeners, muslim jihadists, and communist fiends? You expect Australia to defend you from Nuclear-weapon holding dictatorships?

Go ahead, be my guest. Its your world thats going to fall apart.

Australia...heh heh...

Wow, you sure do like your freedom...
Since when does democracy = freedom?

Now really I am curious seeing as the arabs in Israel can proove to you that it clearly doesn't.

....

Whew, im sorry, *giggle*, its just that you expect AUSTRALIA to defend you from the hordes of anti-westeners, muslim jihadists, and communist fiends? You expect Australia to defend you from Nuclear-weapon holding dictatorships?

Go ahead, be my guest. Its your world thats going to fall apart.

Australia...heh heh...
I expect Australia to be the leader of the free world. This title, to me, doesn't entails military might, protection or economic strenght. This title means a nation that is respected by the world by his initiatives and respect of internationnal laws. You know: leading by example. A leader is not a bully, it's someone we can aspire to become.

I'm sorry but I just don't see the US in this role.

By disillusion, I mean that the US SINGLEHANDEDLY won these wars. In both these wars the argument can be made that the allied forces would have won without the US help. And while you were busy selling equipment in WW2 the Chinese and russians were already fighting the Japs. You came in when the Japs were out of ressources to continue the war effort. Don't you come telling me you did it all by yourself, mister. History remembers a different war than the US.

1. Japan just roled over the Chinese. They were NOTHING. If you dont remember, the Japanese ATTACKED US. The Japs had raped China dry, and they were armed with MORE than enough weapons. They slaughtered TENS OF MILLIONS of Chinese people. Remember Pearl Harbor? They actually held the UPPER HAND until 1943.

Also, the Russians never even ENGAGED the Japs until 1945...only weeks before the end of the war.

But, you know, i havent ONCE dissed your country. I said that Canada was cool, that it was full of nice people, and that it was better than the U.S. in some ways. But then i say that i love my country. You start attacking me. I have a right to love my country, as do you. You have no right to say that i cant. I love the U.S., and just because you dont doesnt mean you can act like a bigot.

Ah yes, i remember the ONE bad thing i said about canada. Whenever they talk to an American, they talk as if they had an air of superiority about them

I expect Australia to be the leader of the free world. This title, to me, doesn't entails military might, protection or economic strenght. This title means a nation that is respected by the world by his initiatives and respect of internationnal laws. You know: leading by example. A leader is not a bully, it's someone we can aspire to become.

I'm sorry but I just don't see the US in this role.

Fine, but dont come crawling to me when western civilization is crumbling to the ground. Seeing how the U.S. wont be the leader of the free world any-more, we'll probably make peace with teh Jihadis seeing how we wont need to put our soldiers in Saudi Arabia anymore, and we wont support Israel, so the Terrorists wont care about us.

Of course, while we gain in economic strength seeing how we wont have to spend our money defend YOUR nations against YOUR enemies, the Jihadis will attack YOU. So we'll sit in our lawn chairs and watch as the missiles fly. Then we'll turn on our PS2's and play Grand Theft Auto.

Since when does democracy = freedom?

Now really I am curious seeing as the arabs in Israel can proove to you that it clearly doesn't.


Listen bub, i am one of the largest pro-muslim world supporters on this forum. I once made a thread(which is here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=358290)) where i had to defend the Muslim world, tooth and nail. I personally believe that Israel should burn, but thats just my opinion.

Of course, seeing how im the only one here whos actually LIVED in the Muslim world for YEARS, seeing how i have seen their culture, their music, their LIVES, im the one who should be asking the questions on that matter.

And you believe that a system BESIDES Democracy can make freedom? A totalarian monarchy? Or a Communist Dictatorship perhaps?

1. Japan just roled over the Chinese. They were NOTHING. If you dont remember, the Japanese ATTACKED US. The Japs had raped China dry, and they were armed with MORE than enough weapons. They slaughtered TENS OF MILLIONS of Chinese people. Remember Pearl Harbor? They actually held the UPPER HAND until 1943.

Also, the Russians never even ENGAGED the Japs until 1945...only weeks before the end of the war.

But, you know, i havent ONCE dissed your country. I said that Canada was cool, that it was full of nice people, and that it was better than the U.S. in some ways. But then i say that i love my country. You start attacking me. I have a right to love my country, as do you. You have no right to say that i cant. I love the U.S., and just because you dont doesnt mean you can act like a bigot.

Ah yes, i remember the ONE bad thing i said about canada. Whenever they talk to an American, they talk as if they had an air of superiority about them
Alright I admit I attacked your country. But the reason I did is because you said some rather false things about it and I wanted to point them to every one that reads. When you claims that the US is the first democracy in 2000 years, I have to lean in and correct the facts. Then, as it is a trend with US posters, you went all defensive and claimed other grandiose half-truth. I'm consider myself a truth-nazi. I have that nasty habit of correcting posts I see as being incorrect, no matter which side of the argument I'm on.

But, hey, thanks for the good words. I will say that the US, despite it's problems is still one of the best place to stay in the world. It's people are generally great and I wouldn't mind living there.

Alright I admit I attacked your country. But the reason I did is because you said some rather false things about it and I wanted to point them to every one that reads. When you claims that the US is the first democracy in 2000 years, I have to lean in and correct the facts. Then, as it is a trend with US posters, you went all defensive and claimed other grandiose half-truth. I'm consider myself a truth-nazi. I have that nasty habit of correcting posts I see as being incorrect, no matter which side of the argument I'm on.

But, hey, thanks for the good words. I will say that the US, despite it's problems is still one of the best place to stay in the world. It's people are generally great and I wouldn't mind living there.

*whew*

Alright, i have to admit i went overboard. I have this...problem when i start getting REALLY passionate about a debate i go overboard.

But i think im right when i state that around 1790(the area around when George Washington was elected) we were the first country since the Roman Empire to elect ALL of our leaders, head of state included. We had no king or whatnot.

Listen bub, i am one of the largest pro-muslim world supporters on this forum. I once made a thread(which is here (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=358290)) where i had to defend the Muslim world, tooth and nail. I personally believe that Israel should burn, but thats just my opinion.

Of course, seeing how im the only one here whos actually LIVED in the Muslim world for YEARS, seeing how i have seen their culture, their music, their LIVES, im the one who should be asking the questions on that matter.

And you believe that a system BESIDES Democracy can make freedom? A totalarian monarchy? Or a Communist Dictatorship perhaps?
I must not have made my point clear. I was stating that, in Israel, arabs are not free despite being in a democratic country. I'm not talking about Palestinians here, just Israeli citizen of arab descent.

As for Monarchy, it works pretty well here in Canada as far as freedom is concerned. Communism, in theory can work and be full of freedom; it's just that it was never the case in communist countries. After all, communism is an economic system just as valid as, say, capitalism.

I was merely pointing that democracy is not equal to freedom. Far from it.

Alright I admit I attacked your country. But the reason I did is because you said some rather false things about it and I wanted to point them to every one that reads. When you claims that the US is the first democracy in 2000 years, I have to lean in and correct the facts. Then, as it is a trend with US posters, you went all defensive and claimed other grandiose half-truth. I'm consider myself a truth-nazi. I have that nasty habit of correcting posts I see as being incorrect, no matter which side of the argument I'm on.

But, hey, thanks for the good words. I will say that the US, despite it's problems is still one of the best place to stay in the world. It's people are generally great and I wouldn't mind living there.

I don't mind living here, either...but I sure wish Duhhhhh-bya wasn't the Resident. (Note, carefully, I did not call him "President." He will NEVER be MY President.) I completely and totally reject him, and anyone who thinks like him....if you could call it thinking.

I personally would prefer to see the Kerry states split off, join Canada...and let the moron red-states all kill each other. Just let me move to one of the blue states when they all secede.

I hate conservatives....

*whew*

Alright, i have to admit i went overboard. I have this...problem when i start getting REALLY passionate about a debate i go overboard.

But i think im right when i state that around 1790(the area around when George Washington was elected) we were the first country since the Roman Empire to elect ALL of our leaders, head of state included. We had no king or whatnot.
Again I would present to you the case of switzerland who, if my memory serves me right, elected their leader before the US did.

For starters, I am Canadian, originally from Two Mountains, Quebec. That's just north of Montreal.

For the Quebec issue, I forget who mentioned it but yes the separatist movement has lost quite a bit of steam since the last Referendum. Hopefully it'll stay on the decline.

The major reason why Quebec is so important to Canada is because of Ontario and Quebec really being the original two provinces that make up modern Canada. We're the only country in the world's history that has had a bi-cultural beginning, and not been plunged into Civil War. They're as much Quebecers and Quebecois are as much Canadian as the rest of the country, just some people are f*krs.

As for the American issue, I think the tension between us is the conservative issue. Here's a diagram of the political spectrum out here in North America.

--COMMUNISM ---------------------||----------------------- CAPITALISM
----America________________________Demo's. Conserv's.
----Canada_____NDP_________L i b e r a l s____Conserv's.


Canada is all over the spectrum in their political party, and America is very centred towards Capitalism. Canada has the ability to put in Communist ideals, such as national health care (mmm so good) and America doesn't. Their current, two party, political system simply won't allow for it. So that's part of the reason for the tension, is our national political views. Americans, to this day, are largely anti-communist; and Canada has one communist ideal in place. Scary!

As well, our histories are very contrasting. The States fought against Britian, but Britain finally just let us go when we asked. The States dessimated their Native population in expanding to the west, where as Canada made treaties and alliances. America abolished anti-slavery laws after we did, racist laws were abolished after us, Canada has never been an invading nation short of the World Wars, and so on. Americans are insanely, even fanatically to some degree, patriotic about their nation. Rightly so, it's been throughout their entire history. It's just how they are; since the beginning there has always been a threat. Britain, the Canadian colonies, it's very much a part of their culture. Canadians, on the other hand, for the reasons mentioned above and more, are arrogant because we did all these 'good things' while America is the historical example of 'how to do it wrong'. Alot of Canadians will define themselves as simply being 'not American'. It's odd, but there you have it.

I've studied history for quite some time, and this is pretty much how it is. Our cultures, though similar, have very distinct differences in our past that affect the present train of thought. Therefore the tension. And America may be crazy, gunhappy, and militaristic out the wazoo, but they're still our crazy cousins to the South :p

For starters, I am Canadian, originally from Two Mountains, Quebec. That's just north of Montreal.

For the Quebec issue, I forget who mentioned it but yes the separatist movement has lost quite a bit of steam since the last Referendum. Hopefully it'll stay on the decline.

The major reason why Quebec is so important to Canada is because of Ontario and Quebec really being the original two provinces that make up modern Canada. We're the only country in the world's history that has had a bi-cultural beginning, and not been plunged into Civil War. They're as much Quebecers and Quebecois are as much Canadian as the rest of the country, just some people are f*krs.

As for the American issue, I think the tension between us is the conservative issue. Here's a diagram of the political spectrum out here in North America.

--COMMUNISM ---------------------||----------------------- CAPITALISM
----America________________________Demo's. Conserv's.
----Canada_____NDP_________L i b e r a l s____Conserv's.


Canada is all over the spectrum in their political party, and America is very centred towards Capitalism. Canada has the ability to put in Communist ideals, such as national health care (mmm so good) and America doesn't. Their current, two party, political system simply won't allow for it. So that's part of the reason for the tension, is our national political views. Americans, to this day, are largely anti-communist; and Canada has one communist ideal in place. Scary!

As well, our histories are very contrasting. The States fought against Britian, but Britain finally just let us go when we asked. The States dessimated their Native population in expanding to the west, where as Canada made treaties and alliances. America abolished anti-slavery laws after we did, racist laws were abolished after us, Canada has never been an invading nation short of the World Wars, and so on. Americans are insanely, even fanatically to some degree, patriotic about their nation. Rightly so, it's been throughout their entire history. It's just how they are; since the beginning there has always been a threat. Britain, the Canadian colonies, it's very much a part of their culture. Canadians, on the other hand, for the reasons mentioned above and more, are arrogant because we did all these 'good things' while America is the historical example of 'how to do it wrong'. Alot of Canadians will define themselves as simply being 'not American'. It's odd, but there you have it.

I've studied history for quite some time, and this is pretty much how it is. Our cultures, though similar, have very distinct differences in our past that affect the present train of thought. Therefore the tension. And America may be crazy, gunhappy, and militaristic out the wazoo, but they're still our crazy cousins to the South :p

Good point :D

Ever since lightning star cleverly wrote 'bwahaha' ad nauseum, the damn page has stretched too wide to properly read the rest.

And I thought Iakeokeo was irritating. Go figure.

The only reason I'm posting this is to hopefully generate a fresh page I won't have to scroll horizontally to read the thread properly. This is not a bump.

Bump.

the page is still too wide. Here's an article on Canadian values re: marijuana, and how our gov is out of touch with our wishes.

not to hijack the thread, just something to read while we get past this 'bwahaha' bottleneck. Thouh it should help further illustrate Canadian values, as I mentioned before:

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/11/25/marijuana-normal041125.html

not yet?

grrr.

Hah! Finally!

Please don't do that again, that totally sucked ass.

Well, then, let me make your day. I'm another American that would love to move to Canada, and would, too, in a heartbeat...if y'all would only turn up the heat a little bit up there!!

I live in Texas, and freeze at anything below 70 degrees, or I'd be gone in a second, up to Canada. You are so right that it is an American liberal's wet dream up there. If ONLY Canada had a way to more influence the United States...
Damn it all!

Canada, source of dangerous prescription drugs (unless, of course, your country finds itself short of flu shots, THEN Canadian flu shots are fine...) but NEVER should we cut into the American pharmaceutical companies' precious profits by importing those unsafe Canadian drugs (which of course were manufactured in America and shipped to Canada...yet they cost less) They are, of course, the same damn drug we get here...but half the price...can't let Americans undercut the pharmaceutical companies' bottom line like that!!

And of course, the freaking Bible-thumpers here in America...I hear that they are pretty bad like that in Alberta, too...maybe I'm wrong?? I mean, if they kept to themselves, lived their own lives, and stopped trying to force THEIR morals on ME...and stopped trying to control MY choices...well, then, I wouldn't have a problem with the Bible-thumpers.

Anyway, my point being...if y'all could just bump the heat up a little bit up there in Canada, you'd have another American ready to salute the Great Maple Leaf.

You know, first world nation's pollution habits are doing good things for warming Canada up. I'm from Northern Alberta, and thanks to El ninyo, we are having the warmest winters ever! But it'll never be as warm as Texas. I don't know where you got the idea that there are bible thumpers here, though. The general public is usually not sympathetic to anything Christian.

Unless, of course, they are Christian. Such as myself.

Canada is basically the States if they'd stayed loyal to Great Britian. And judging upon our quality of life, and other things, that was probably the better arrangment.

As for Alberta, I find them to be fine people, except when they rant on about how the federal government is stealing their oil money. But hey, guess what? Thats just fine, because in 40 years, you'll be screwed. So it's probably not a good idea to make everybody hate you now by getting rich off a non-renewable resource. No offence intended, but its just the way it is. Klein is not doing anything for national unity.

You know, first world nation's pollution habits are doing good things for warming Canada up. I'm from Northern Alberta, and thanks to El ninyo, we are having the warmest winters ever! But it'll never be as warm as Texas.

Okay, so winter is warmer. In northern Alberta. What about the permafrost, man? The soil that's frozen comes from a long time back - what happens when it melts, and some nasty little microbial, bacterial, or viral critters poke their noses out of the ground, possibly ones we've never heard of before?

That prospect frankly scares me sometimes.

Hah! Finally!

Please don't do that again, that totally sucked ass.

See? I made you notice :D

See? I made you notice :D

Yeah well there's good attention and bad. That was bad...

Yeah well there's good attention and bad. That was bad...

Hey, i had to get my point across. And seeing how no one was paying attention to what i was actually writing, i had to put the most important part this big.

You know, I do not understand for the life of me why Canada's existence angers so many of my fellow countrymen- I mean, at my high school, people refer to it as "CANADIA" and "QUEBECKYIAN FRENCHIES"- and that we should nuke them.

The kids at your high school are just being.....juvenile.

Nobody would seriously consider nuking Canada...especially with all the hockey players they export :p

The kids at your high school are just being.....juvenile.

Nobody would seriously consider nuking Canada...especially with all the hockey players they export :p

Yeah...

but their beer DOES suck, so at least we have THAT reason(albeit a dumb one.)

Oooooooook Lightning Star, if you're from the US you have absolutely no right saying American beer sucks. Ive drank beer from the US before and it doesn't hold a candle to my beloved Kokanee.

Oooooooook Lightning Star, if you're from the US you have absolutely no right saying American beer sucks. Ive drank beer from the US before and it doesn't hold a candle to my beloved Kokanee.

I live in Panama.

Heres another slogan ive come up for it.

Panama: The Land Where Beer is Cheaper than Water!

Uh? The Liberals are far too Conservative to be allowed to rule. It's time for a radical change. The NDP would lead Canada to a better position in the world. The Liberals only want to give up more and more of Canada to capitalist nations like the US.. The Conservatives are even worse, they want to make Canada the 51st state. :/

I support the NDP fully (for now.)

http://popups.ctv.ca/content/publish/popups/ndp_leadership/images/jack_layton.jpg
[Soon to be] Prime Minister Jack Layton :)

http://www.ndp.ca/images/img_logo_w_slogan.gif


Are you on CRACK?????????? the NDP has made shit holes of every province they have governed.

And the liberal are corrupt. Its time for a change...

i dont think the additude twards canada is that bad, im a candian living in miami and i dont get that much bad candian attenetion. well actually i do but its all in fun and teh few people who dislike canada that i no dislike froma lack of knowlegde. i mean seriuolsy i would be more worried about the people who dont think beyond this countries borders. i mean seriously everyone who noes about canada, like really noes about lieks it

what are u talking about, american beer sucks
MOLSEN kicks ass

Unless, of course, they are Christian. Such as myself.

Canada is basically the States if they'd stayed loyal to Great Britian. And judging upon our quality of life, and other things, that was probably the better arrangment.

As for Alberta, I find them to be fine people, except when they rant on about how the federal government is stealing their oil money. But hey, guess what? Thats just fine, because in 40 years, you'll be screwed. So it's probably not a good idea to make everybody hate you now by getting rich off a non-renewable resource. No offence intended, but its just the way it is. Klein is not doing anything for national unity.


Alberta would still be in the red without its oil money jackass.

Alberta contributes 7 ~ 9 billion MORE than it gets back from the rest of canada per year. If 50 years with less oil it still will be the richest province as it actually embraces capitalism unlike soviet quebecistan or newfound states of Che.

You've got it wrong. If a term has to be changed, it's "Canadian" as "Canada" was the name of the country before we called ourselves "Canadians". If you must change something, use "Canadans" or something.

Though I'd like to ask why is US citizen called "Americans". shouldn't it be "Staters", "Unitedians", "USers" or something? It's not like your the only people on the American continent, you know?

I have a theory about that. Perhaps, because at the time, these states, were the only existing states. Places in Canada, like Quebec, Nova Scotia, etc. were also English colonies. They were given chances to join the 13 others. It's funny how we separate Canadians and Americans now, but originally there was no difference. The 13 that we say are the American colonies were just the 13 that decided to join up. Others didn't. And at the time, they were the only STATES in both of the American continents, plus the Caribbean. The others were still colonies, and it continued this way for quite a long time. Hence, the United States of America. They were the only states in America, because others remained colonies, either because they were not associated with the said states, or because they chose not to go along with them. They were independent nations after they declared independence, and formed something comparable to the EU, originally, under the Articles of Confederation. For many years they thought of themselves as Viriginians, New Yorkers, etc. But eventually the context evolved. Also, since at the time, they were the only sovereign nation on the continents, they could be called real citizens of America, whereas Canadians were British subjects (they were called "the British in Canada" in our textbooks all throughout the 1800s until Canada actually became a Dominion) and Mexicans were Spanish subjects.

Heres something thats commonly disputed between the U.S. and Canada: The War of 1812. Who won? Who lost?

Excerpt from Wikipedia.
Effects of the War of 1812 on post-war North America: who won?

The Treaty established status quo ante bellum. There were no territorial concessions made by either side. The issue of impressing American seamen was made moot when the Royal Navy stopped impressment. This was a concession to American successes in battle in 1814: before this, the British position was to hold all territory gained in battle.

Many Canadians consider the War of 1812 to have been an American defeat. From their point of view, the American invasions of 1813 and 1814 were repulsed. Further supporting this point of view is that the British occupied some American territory at the end of the war; however, the Americans did not occupy any British territory. However, from the American point of view, the war was a successful defense of American rights, which they claimed culminated in the victory at New Orleans. Because New Orleans was successfully defended, American expansion into the Southwest was possible.

Following the Treaty of Ghent, relations between the United States and Britain would remain peaceful, if not entirely tranquil, throughout the 19th century. Both nations made border adjustments in 1818 and established the line of 49 degrees North latitude as the international border west of the Lake of the Woods. Border disputes between the State of Maine and the Province of New Brunswick were settled in the 1830s (see Aroostook War).

No territorial gains were made by either side and impressment and Indian issues were put on hold. The United States however did gain worldwide respect for managing to withstand Britain. A growth in American manufacturing was caused by the formidable British blockade of the American east coast. The death of the Federalist Party also followed the war. The Great Lakes were no longer disputed but became shared property of Canada and Britain, and the United States. The Indian threat was at a minimum since Tecumseh had fallen and the Prophet was increasingly ridiculed and finally resorted to drink. However, the War of 1812 did not increase any involvement of the people in global affairs.

There were several significant economic developments after the War of 1812, including:

* Lowell system – Initially used in the production of textiles, the Lowell system placed each stage of manufacture under one roof, replacing the domestic system. This created the factory.
* Eli Whitney's invention of interchangeable parts, allowing rapid production of goods.
* Henry Clay's American System
* The Second Great Awakening, 1830–50

A significant military development was the increased emphasis by General Winfield Scott on improved professionalism in the U.S. Army officer corps, and in particular, the training of officers at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, New York. The American officer corps' professionalism was apparent during the 1846–1848 war with Mexico.

Motives of the U.S.

It is important to notice that the motives of the U.S. in this war were to gain Canada and to stop impressment. Why gain Canada? It was considered by many to be a barren desert. The War hawks, being Southerners, wanted more seats in Congress. If new states were created, they wanted the Southerners to populate them. The sectionalism that eventually led to the American Civil War was beginning to deepen.

According to data from the United States Department of Veterans Affairs, the last surviving U.S. veteran of the conflict, Hiram Cronk, died on May 13, 1905 at the age of 105.

Motives of the UK

Britain's intention in the War of 1812 was not to regain its former colonies, as the cost of doing so would far outweigh any profit to be made (although if the cost of a war was bound to be incurred anyway, it might have made sense to make some gains in passing). The bold (or possibly rash) Americans had decisively defeated Britain once with help and hoped to do so again even without help. Britain however was a world power, with more out-of-area capability than ever and fewer enemies with such capability. It wanted to pass on a message to the world at large, "Britain is not a country to mess around with", and it had specific strategic interests in North America, e.g. as a source of naval supplies. Such a message was sent in passing when Britain burned the White House. However it must be noted that Britain did not first declare war, but the United States, so it is realistic to suppose that Britain wished to protect its colonies and broader interests in North America.


Effects of the War on Canada

In both Canada and the United States the War of 1812 caused a great rise in nationalism. In the Canadian colonies, the war united the French and the English colonies against a common enemy. At the beginning of the War of 1812 it is estimated that perhaps one third of the inhabitants of Upper Canada for example were American born, some were United Empire Loyalists but others had come just for the cheap farmland and many had little loyalty to the British Crown at the beginning of the war. Thus the war gave many inhabitants of Upper and Lower Canada a sense of nationhood as well as a sense of loyalty to Britain. For instance, Laura Secord was originally an American immigrant to Upper Canada, but did not hesitate to make her arduous trek to warn the British forces of a pending attack by her own former country.

Unfortunately, this nationalistic sentiment also caused a great deal of suspicion towards American ideas like responsible government which would frustrate political reform in Upper and Lower Canada until the Rebellions of 1837. However, the War of 1812 also started the process which ultimately led to Canadian Confederation in 1867. Although later events such as the Rebellions and the Fenian raids of the 1860s were more directly pivotal, Canadian historian Pierre Berton has written that if the War of 1812 had never happened Canada would be part of the United States today, as more and more American settlers would have arrived, and Canadian nationalism would never have developed.


Impressment of American Sailors

The British did not want the Americans trading with their enemy France, and sending them supplies. Britain established a partial blockade to stop American trade with France. The blockade angered France, which enacted its own laws to control trade. If the American sailors obeyed the British rules, their ships would be seized by the French. If they obeyed the French rules, their ships would be seized by the British. Britain also interfered with U.S. trade by impressment of American sailors. Between 1803 and 1812, about 6,000 American sailors were impressed.


The Embargo Act of 1807

Jefferson responded to the interference by France and Britain by stopping all foreign trade. The Embargo Act of 1807 prevented American ships from sailing to any foreign ports. The act also closed American ports to British ships. Although the trade embargo decreased the number of American ships attacked by the French and British, it greatly hurt the economy of the United States. No trade meant no way to sell materials and products to other countries to make a profit. More importantly, the United States relied on product shipped in from Europe to survive. Now they were forced to make their own supplies...


War Hawks

The War Hawks were people that wanted to go to war with Britain. They wanted to stop the British from aiding Native Americans, and they wanted to gain land by forcing the British out of Canada. Others wanted to go to war to stop the attacks on American ships.

The United States Military During the War of 1812

When the War of 1812 first began, the U.S. military was very weak and inexperienced. The army consisted of only 7000 men and small state militias. The navy had only 16 ships.


The Battle of the Thames

General Harrison defeated the British at the Battle of the Thames in October. This victory put an end to the British threat in the Northwest. Also, the rebel Native American Tecumseh died in the battle while fighting for the British.


Britain Defeats Napoleon

After defeating Napoleon in April 1814, Britain focused entirely on the United States. They burned the United States Capitol building and the president’s mansion in August 1814.


War of 1812 Terminology

impressment: the kidnapping and drafting of American soldiers into the British navy, on the grounds that they were AWOL British sailors

Embargo Act of 1807: An act passed by Congress that restricted American ships from sailing to foreign ports. The Act also closed American ports to British ships.

Tecumseh: A Shawnee chief who vowed to stop the loss of Native American land. He believed that the reason Native Americans to lose their land was because they were separated into so many different tribes. He believed that Native Americans had to unite and to further his status as a prophet, had warned of the great Earthquakes that indeed occured from 1811 to 1813 along the New Madrid fault.

War Hawk: Leaders such as Congressman Henry Clay who angrily demanded war against Britain. They wanted British aid to Native Americans stopped, and they wanted the British out of Canada. They believed that the United States could gain land by conquering Canada.

Heres the rest of the War from an UNBIASED view. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812)

I have a theory about that. Perhaps, because at the time, these states, were the only existing states. Places in Canada, like Quebec, Nova Scotia, etc. were also English colonies. They were given chances to join the 13 others. It's funny how we separate Canadians and Americans now, but originally there was no difference. The 13 that we say are the American colonies were just the 13 that decided to join up. Others didn't. And at the time, they were the only STATES in both of the American continents, plus the Caribbean. The others were still colonies, and it continued this way for quite a long time. Hence, the United States of America. They were the only states in America, because others remained colonies, either because they were not associated with the said states, or because they chose not to go along with them. They were independent nations after they declared independence, and formed something comparable to the EU, originally, under the Articles of Confederation. For many years they thought of themselves as Viriginians, New Yorkers, etc. But eventually the context evolved. Also, since at the time, they were the only sovereign nation on the continents, they could be called real citizens of America, whereas Canadians were British subjects (they were called "the British in Canada" in our textbooks all throughout the 1800s until Canada actually became a Dominion) and Mexicans were Spanish subjects.

Well, I am a little embarrassed to say I know little of Canadian history, a bit more about Mexican history. chalk it up to living in Texas...i'm closer, geographically, to Mexico, and have far more dealings and social interactions with Mexican citizens than Canadians.
I cannot honestly say what year Canada became a Dominion, and was freed from British subjugation, however, I can say that Mexico became independent in 1823. That was the year in which Mexico declared independence from Spain.
They kicked the Spanish Army's ass, and became their own country...and then, of course, us Texans came along and kicked Mexico's ass in 1836, becoming our own independent nation, The Republic of Texas. We remained our own nation until we were annexed by the United States in 1845.

Of course, our first President of Texas, Samuel Houston, who later also became a U.S. Senator from Texas...had intended all along to become a part of the United States. We ended up an independent nation for nine years before that happened. In that time, we had four Presidents of Texas, if you count Houston twice, as he was our first, and our last, President.

President Houston was smart. The United States wanted Texas, but wanted to avoid open conflict with Mexico. When Texas gained it's independence, the United states was reluctant to annex Texas, because they did not want to cause a war and an insurgency with Mexico.
So, Sam Houston made it well known he, and The Republic of Texas, were cozying up to the British. See, Britain liked the deal, too, because they were getting a lot of good cotton from Texas, and avoiding high American tariffs. All part of Houston's plan.

Well, America just could NOT have that...and so eventually, the United States sought to annex Texas, and the deal was done.

At any rate...my point was, Mexico were only Spanish subjects until 1823. Canada...not sure how long before they were no longer British subjects.

Sorry, Canadians, don't know much of your history...I'm sad to say it does not get taught very much here in the States. So, would someone be kind enough to tell me exactly when Canada became an independent nation?

1) A large number of Americans LOVE Canada. I like the place, both because I have ancestry there (My Grandma's French Canadia, bwahaha!), and because I like what they do. They're hardly a perfect country, but they're screwed up in less nasty ways than the US is, on average.

2) A large number of Americans hate the rest of America. I, myself, used the elections to decide which states to never move to, and that's most of them. (Oddly enough, I was republican up until I heard my very first Dubya speach, and now I'm simply moderate.)

3) Many Americans wish we could take the best of Canada and drag it down here, while maintaining our higher level of capitalistic ideas (Mind you, Canada's no less capitalist than the US, they're just a lot less greedy about it). Much of it stems from America's EXTREME self-denial that we already ARE a socialist country. We're a socialist democratic republic. Have been since Social Security, at the least. Then again, we also have 'conservatives' who want to make -changes-, which is the exact opposite of what 'conservative' MEANS...

4) Quebec, I'm afraid, suffers from the general "Hate the French" thing. Like Americans, the more you hate them, the more they hate you, and it just keeps going in circles. I mean, cripes, they're as Germanic as the English are... and they used to be so popular that French was the language of the royal courts (probably also why they're hated, royal connections). That and, much like how Canada gets irritated at relying on the US so much, the US is likely miffed that the French saved our butts during the Revolution.

5) Your grandfather smells of elderberries!

Sorry, Canadians, don't know much of your history...I'm sad to say it does not get taught very much here in the States. So, would someone be kind enough to tell me exactly when Canada became an independent nation?
That sort of depends on your definition of independent. We had confederation, and just about every power you'd want (Aside from declaring war and ammending the constitution) in 1867. If Britain went to war, Canada was at war, but Canada could decide what kind of contribution to make. We didn't really need to send soldiers in, say, the Boer War (but English Canada wanted to) or the first world war (yeah... we did that anyway too). By 1930, Canada could make it's own decisions on foreign affairs and could decide who to wage war with on it's own. First decision: World War Two. By this point, Canada still couldn't ammend the constitution... who needs that anyway? Well, that came in 1982. We still have a governor general, representing the Queen, who signs royal assent to every law, but this is a ceremonial position, and the Governor General has never actually refused royal assent... well, Byng caused some problems, but he was prompty removed.

That sort of depends on your definition of independent. We had confederation, and just about every power you'd want (Aside from declaring war and ammending the constitution) in 1867. If Britain went to war, Canada was at war, but Canada could decide what kind of contribution to make. We didn't really need to send soldiers in, say, the Boer War (but English Canada wanted to) or the first world war (yeah... we did that anyway too). By 1930, Canada could make it's own decisions on foreign affairs and could decide who to wage war with on it's own. First decision: World War Two. By this point, Canada still couldn't ammend the constitution... who needs that anyway? Well, that came in 1982. We still have a governor general, representing the Queen, who signs royal assent to every law, but this is a ceremonial position, and the Governor General has never actually refused royal assent... well, Byng caused some problems, but he was prompty removed.

Well, by "independent," I mean...at what point was Canada recognized as a soverign, independent nation, by the world community?

Example: the United States declared Independence on July 4, 1776. We date our independence from that date. However, until the Revolutionary War was won, much of the world community of the time did NOT recognize America as a soverign, independent nation. That did not come until 1783, when we won the Revolutionary War. At which point, I would say we truly were independent.

Although, I, too...date our independence from 1776, because that is when we declare and exercised it.

However, that is not the way in which Canada gained it's independence, and so different standards need to be applied. As far as I'm aware there never was an "official" declaration of independence for Canada...Canadian independence sort of evolved. Unless I'm mistaken. I do know that there was no war to gain independence, it just sorta happened.

So, for Canada...I would date independence from the point at which the world community recognized her as an independent, soverign nation.

Canadians?? When do you date your independence from? What events led to it? I'd like to know. I'd like to learn more about the country that may one day become my home, if things keep going as they are in the U.S. of A.

Doth ANYONETH careth about thine posteth abouteth thine wareth of 1812eth?

Well..emm....if some of you, including you want to move there it can't be all that bad. Eventhough the lot of them are evil communist bastards who wanted that traitor Kerry to be elected. Cause they can't deal with a REAL man like Bush. Kerry just went to Vietnam to further his political career. While Bush faithfully defended Texan airspace against VC bombers and paratroopers. ;)

please.. please.. why .. please just go away.. I don't know.. blow yourself up in front of bush.. :)

One has to wonder if there is many non-christian in Alberta. It's rather hard to convert people already converted.

Having never been there, I don't know.


I lived in Calgary for about three years. I knew many non religious people, as well as many people of various faiths.

Only once in those years did anyone thump their bible in my general direction, and that was a group of travelling Mormons from the States.
No worries though, they were polite and Sister Sarah was quite cute actually :)


Though on second thought, they might not have been Mormons. I had always though that Mormons don't let their women preach, but I could just be confused again :p

Canadians?? When do you date your independence from? What events led to it? I'd like to know. I'd like to learn more about the country that may one day become my home, if things keep going as they are in the U.S. of A.

Buck, as you point out, things sort of 'evolved' here, so it's not a question of celebrating 'independence' day. 'Canada' day, the 1st of July, is the national holiday, the day we commemorate Confederation (1867).

Trust me, that's the one you want. It's day for fireworks displays, marching bands, getting shitfaced drunk in groups on patios, or grilling things that at one point ate grass. The PM usually makes a speech on the lawn of Parliament Hill, looking all sweaty and uncomfortable standing in the inevitably hot summer sun, more often than not wearing a suit. It's the kind of day that you haul out the old portable stereo and crank up Stompin' Tom Connors tunes, even if it does piss off the young'uns. I kept my nephews in a perpetual state of disbelief as I trotted out the old audiocasettes of Gordon Lightfoot and Men Without Hats.

Buck, as you point out, things sort of 'evolved' here, so it's not a question of celebrating 'independence' day. 'Canada' day, the 1st of July, is the national holiday, the day we commemorate Confederation (1867).

Trust me, that's the one you want. It's day for fireworks displays, marching bands, getting shitfaced drunk in groups on patios, or grilling things that at one point ate grass. The PM usually makes a speech on the lawn of Parliament Hill, looking all sweaty and uncomfortable standing in the inevitably hot summer sun, more often than not wearing a suit. It's the kind of day that you haul out the old portable stereo and crank up Stompin' Tom Connors tunes, even if it does piss off the young'uns. I kept my nephews in a perpetual state of disbelief as I trotted out the old audiocasettes of Gordon Lightfoot and Men Without Hats.

You can't slide THAT one past me...Stompin' Tom connors...A Sudbury Saturday Night! Yes, one of your crazy south-of-the-border neighbors knows all about Stompin' Tom!

And of course, Men without Hats i.e. The Safety Dance. Yep, I know 'em.

OK, now back on subject...so, officially, then Canada dates it's independence from 1867. That was what I was going for. and I'm glad I'm not wrong with my assertion that independence for Canada just sorta evolved, as it were...I think Canada may be the only nation on Earth that gained independence without violence.

Personally, I'd like to see the Kerry-blue states join Canada, and make The United states of Canda, and leave the stupid-ass Red states to be a nation they can call Jesusland. Just let me come to a blue state before it happens, don't leave ME stuck in red-state hell! It would be a lot better that way. I love my country, I love this land...but, damn, do I hate our government!

You can't slide THAT one past me...Stompin' Tom connors...A Sudbury Saturday Night! Yes, one of your crazy south-of-the-border neighbors knows all about Stompin' Tom!

Memo to Judy Sgro, Minister of Immigration:

Bucksnort has the Dobbs seal of approval for residency - he KNOWS who Stompin' Tom Connors is. Please expedite his application for full citizenship.

Special Immigration Consultantate Dobbs.



- Well Buck, you'd better start boning up on your Rush lyrics and 'Who Has Seen the Wind' by W.O. Mitchell...the written exam's a bitch!


---------------------------------------------------------------->


Funny thing, I just had a friend over tonight, and apparently there ARE increasing numbers of Americans starting to trickle in. I must admit I hadn't noticed yet, but the people who are coming are, for the most part, those who already have a friend, family member or loved one currenty residing here. I guess what's funny is that I've let my observations of and interactions with the Americans on these threads be my barometer of current American popular opinion, rather than hearing about what's going on in my own backyard.

Right after the election, there was a lot of talk of Americans moving in disgust or frustration, and people became angry with each other here in General. There's still persistent threads, and related threads dealing with it, but as it had died down I just assumed that people were just going to button down and endure it...but now I've learned otherwise. This one friend knew of more than a dozen friends or family of friends who were showing up on doorsteps recently, with others soon to follow.

By the way, this is a shitty time of year to come up - it's cold and wet and snow is making appearances all over the country. It'll get progressively more cold til about February. Then it'll melt, and it'll rain until May or June. I'd come up in May, with everything all green and wet. Anyway, people will come whenever they thik it suits them. But if we are looking at a new trend -if it starts becoming a perceptible pattern, I suppose my greatest concern would be, what effects would there be on Canadian culture?

Many new arrivals to Canada tend to establish themselves in areas with an existing pool of fellow countrymen, and for the most part, these pools flourish within metropolitan centres such as Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. I imagine it would be much the same with Americans.

It wouldn't be long, I suppose before some newcomers would become frustrated with how things are done here. I hope that in coming, they don't end up, in the end, trying to Americanize us to accomodate themselves. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens. Your own particular national cultural idiosyncracies would of course be tolerated, but not to the extent that they supplant our own values.

So...I suggest to those of you who ARE coming... get used to: very very strict gun laws; to lean meats; to hockey scores; to semilegal, hopefully soon-to-be truly legal, dope; to a tiny Armed Forces with a peacekeeping mandate; to the seemingly endless wrangling between the Federal government and the Provinces; to poutine, tortiere & pea soup, backbacon, 6% beer, rye whiskey, donairs, and vinegar on chips; to gay marriage; to Don Cherry; to social medicine; to the Tragically Hip; to official bilingualism; to Hinterland's Who's Who; to no death penalty; to grumbling over the Avro Arrow; to abortion on demand; to mumbling the words to 'O Canada' at public events, and FINALLY, to vacationing in Cuba in the winter and at your friend's cottage in the summer. Drunkenly kissing Bonhomme remains optional.

Oh, and yeah, it's called 'pop' not 'soda'. American cheese remains for the most part a mystery, as do FoxNews and Rush Limbaugh's radio program. Words like color, rigor and valor are spelled colour, rigour, and valour, while other words like 'liberal', 'socialist', and 'communist' aren't considered insults. Everybody either has a jug of CLR under their sink, a book by Pierre Berton propping up their couch, or some oddball kitchen device made by Star-Frit that they claim to actually find useful. Remember to tip 15 %, don't jaywalk, unless you're in Montreal, in that case remember not to cross the streets at intersections anywhere, at any time...and don't forget to buy some Innu art for your new home. An Arctic relief, or a soapstone seal.

That is all. Good luck, Buck. And for a bonus point can you name the winningest NHL team in Stanley Cup history?

Personally, I'd like to see the Kerry-blue states join Canada, and make The United states of Canda, and leave the stupid-ass Red states to be a nation they can call Jesusland. Just let me come to a blue state before it happens, don't leave ME stuck in red-state hell! It would be a lot better that way. I love my country, I love this land...but, damn, do I hate our government!

Should be no problem for you to move on up right away, when you fill out your application just put down occupation as "exotic dancer"
I'm not joking, the immigration dept shows this as an occupation where there is a shortage of Canadian workers, we are now bringing European strippers into Canada to fill the void.
If that doesn't work the same is apparently true about truck drivers.
(My guess is most of our truck drivers are at a strip club in Hull)

Memo to Judy Sgro, Minister of Immigration:

Bucksnort has the Dobbs seal of approval for residency - he KNOWS who Stompin' Tom Connors is. Please expedite his application for full citizenship.

Special Immigration Consultantate Dobbs.



- Well Buck, you'd better start boning up on your Rush lyrics and 'Who Has Seen the Wind' by W.O. Mitchell...the written exam's a bitch!


---------------------------------------------------------------->


Funny thing, I just had a friend over tonight, and apparently there ARE increasing numbers of Americans starting to trickle in. I must admit I hadn't noticed yet, but the people who are coming are, for the most part, those who already have a friend, family member or loved one currenty residing here. I guess what's funny is that I've let my observations of and interactions with the Americans on these threads be my barometer of current American popular opinion, rather than hearing about what's going on in my own backyard.

Right after the election, there was a lot of talk of Americans moving in disgust or frustration, and people became angry with each other here in General. There's still persistent threads, and related threads dealing with it, but as it had died down I just assumed that people were just going to button down and endure it...but now I've learned otherwise. This one friend knew of more than a dozen friends or family of friends who were showing up on doorsteps recently, with others soon to follow.

By the way, this is a shitty time of year to come up - it's cold and wet and snow is making appearances all over the country. It'll get progressively more cold til about February. Then it'll melt, and it'll rain until May or June. I'd come up in May, with everything all green and wet. Anyway, people will come whenever they thik it suits them. But if we are looking at a new trend -if it starts becoming a perceptible pattern, I suppose my greatest concern would be, what effects would there be on Canadian culture?

Many new arrivals to Canada tend to establish themselves in areas with an existing pool of fellow countrymen, and for the most part, these pools flourish within metropolitan centres such as Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. I imagine it would be much the same with Americans.

It wouldn't be long, I suppose before some newcomers would become frustrated with how things are done here. I hope that in coming, they don't end up, in the end, trying to Americanize us to accomodate themselves. It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, happens. Your own particular national cultural idiosyncracies would of course be tolerated, but not to the extent that they supplant our own values.

So...I suggest to those of you who ARE coming... get used to: very very strict gun laws; to lean meats; to hockey scores; to semilegal, hopefully soon-to-be truly legal, dope; to a tiny Armed Forces with a peacekeeping mandate; to the seemingly endless wrangling between the Federal government and the Provinces; to poutine, tortiere & pea soup, backbacon, 6% beer, rye whiskey, donairs, and vinegar on chips; to gay marriage; to Don Cherry; to social medicine; to the Tragically Hip; to official bilingualism; to Hinterland's Who's Who; to no death penalty; to grumbling over the Avro Arrow; to abortion on demand; to mumbling the words to 'O Canada' at public events, and FINALLY, to vacationing in Cuba in the winter and at your friend's cottage in the summer. Drunkenly kissing Bonhomme remains optional.

Oh, and yeah, it's called 'pop' not 'soda'. American cheese remains for the most part a mystery, as do FoxNews and Rush Limbaugh's radio program. Words like color, rigor and valor are spelled colour, rigour, and valour, while other words like 'liberal', 'socialist', and 'communist' aren't considered insults. Everybody either has a jug of CLR under their sink, a book by Pierre Berton propping up their couch, or some oddball kitchen device made by Star-Frit that they claim to actually find useful. Remember to tip 15 %, don't jaywalk, unless you're in Montreal, in that case remember not to cross the streets at intersections anywhere, at any time...and don't forget to buy some Innu art for your new home. An Arctic relief, or a soapstone seal.

That is all. Good luck, Buck. And for a bonus point can you name the winningest NHL team in Stanley Cup history?

One thing. Buck is a SHE.
Actually, I named this nation as a result of seeing a funny town name in Tennessee. Bucksnort! That is the name of a small town in Tennessee, and I liked the name, because I thought it was funny.

As to Rush, no trouble there. Tom Sawyer is my favorite Rush song, right up there with Red Sector A and Kid Gloves. But maybe I should get used to spelling it "Favourite...."

As to the rest, since those of us who would be coming up would be coming up to get away from the crap in the USA, I do not think we would attempt to "Americanize" you guys, at least not in the negative sense. Most of us dissatisfied Americans share your political views up there, and appreciate different cultures, unlike the rednecks down here that voted Bush.

And any country that has never seen FAUX News, or Flush Rimbaugh...any country where "liberal," "communist," or "scoialist" are not filthy insults would be a wonderful place to live. Seriously, though, can you see about bumping the old thermostat up a few degrees??

Damn, I'd still like to see the Kerry Blue states just up and join Canada, and tell the United States, and it's stupid redneck majority, to "go Cheney themselves!!"

Yes, sorry, this is how I see the Bush (red) voters...as stupid rednecks who will endure, and vote for, economic hardhip for themselves, just in order to be spiteful and hateful to gays...and as greedy, fat-cat rich business moguls who want no obstacles in their way to world domination, they just want nice, complacent little slaves who are glad to accept a pittance, for the great privilege of working for them...Workers are NOT supposed to stand up for their rights, or for fair pay, or anything like that, according to this batch of red voters.

So, you have basically two groups, equally despised by me, that vote red (support Bush.) One is the stupid redneck. The other is the greedy business mogul. That unnatural and unholy alliance can't keep up forever, sooner or later, even the dumb rednecks gotta realize they are getting screwed over. I think if the Kerry-blue states seceded into Canada, and left "Jesusland" we would see a very interesting, acrimonious civil war...and I am not so sure the business moguls would win that one...the rednecks are the ones with the guns, remember! I think it could be fun to watch the explosion.

See, the Republican majority basically has the invader mentality. As long as we Kerry-blue states and people remain...they have a common enemy to fight. but if we LEAVE...and deny them that enemy, they will turn on each other...which could prove very interesting to watch.

And, by the way, no one would believe I was an exotic dancer. Trust me. I don't have the body or the moves for it. When I try and dance (very seldom) I look like a frog in a blender.

I've spent a couple weeks in the hospital, and I was quite content my entire stay. There was some waiting time, but it was the middle of the night when I got there, so I don't blame them a huge amount.

As for the higher taxes, Well, Look at Sweden. Free education from ECS to College. Best Standard of living. World Renown Health Care. ANd I think a 50% Tax rate.

And a high suicide rate.

Yeah, ultra-high taxes, State controlled media, and socialism creating craptacular medical care are the American dream. :rolleyes:

Every 30 seconds, someone in the United States declares bankruptcy because of obscene medical expenses. Nobody in Canada goes bankrupt for the same reason. Now you tell me which is the preferable system?