NationStates Jolt Archive

Not nearly as inflamatory as you thought, huh? Still, I'm curious. In this (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/articles-monarchy.php) essay, the author mentions that less than 10% of Canadians know what kind of government they have, so I thought I'd do a (highly inaccurate) straw poll here in General.

Oh, and while long and written by a conservative, the article is really interesting. The author runs that site, and does a political cartoon, often involving local Canadian events. He's also done a rather impressive Guide to Canada (http://www.filibustercartoons.com/canguide.php).

2nd biggest damn country... eh.

Aren't all parlimentary democracies necessarily republics? I think either would be correct in Canada's case.

Last time I checked, we (Canada) were a Constitutional Monarchy. As in Queen Elizabeth II is our Head of State, however we have a Parliment, Constitution, and all that other wonderful stuff.

UHm no :headbang:

I just found out our system of government this year when I took political science. I had no idea political systems were so complicated but I understand quite well now about our (by the way I'm Canadian) system now. This is my first post on the jolt forum I think. Its been a long time since I've been active. I did try to rekindle my RPing fire a while back but I got tired. Damn logisitics. Anyway I won't give away the answer but when you're done I'd be happy to discus our system and its contrasts with the American one. Another interesting question: How many Americans know they are a democratic republic? Even more interesting: Do Americans know what the difference between a republic and democracy is? Indeed I came to this thread because it seemed pretty inflamatory. I'll never understand why some people bash other countries like that. Nice topic.

Last time I checked, we (Canada) were a Constitutional Monarchy. As in Queen Elizabeth II is our Head of State, however we have a Parliment, Constitution, and all that other wonderful stuff.



I don't even know why we have any ties to the queen anymore. It's rather stupid if you ask me.

In theory we have a constitutional monarchy

but in practice we have a representitive democracy

the influence of the queen is marginal at best

It would be interesting to have a Shogunate! Yeah I think if the Queen actually exercised her power she wouldn't have power for too long. She is essentially ceremonial to Canada. The difference between republics and democracies is that republics are bound more to constitutions than democracies. As you can tell thought the lines blur a lot.

It would be interesting to have a Shogunate! Yeah I think if the Queen actually exercised her power she wouldn't have power for too long. She is essentially ceremonial to Canada. The difference between republics and democracies is that republics are bound more to constitutions than democracies. As you can tell thought the lines blur a lot.

lol

so true

the one thing you can depend on from canadians is not caring about their politics. But I'm sure if ol queeny tried something we would have a good public outcry. I just think that the way it is, nobody cares

we are too busy getting stoned up here

It would be interesting to have a Shogunate! Yeah I think if the Queen actually exercised her power she wouldn't have power for too long. She is essentially ceremonial to Canada. The difference between republics and democracies is that republics are bound more to constitutions than democracies. As you can tell thought the lines blur a lot.

hmm... I have been out of college too long. I thought republics were states ruled elected officials, and democracies were societies ruled directly by the people, like in Ancient Greece were all the men would get together and sort things out. I didn't know you Canadians still had the queen as head of state. Is that the way things are in Australia and the other commonwealth countries?

hmm... I have been out of college too long. I thought republics were states ruled elected officials, and democracies were societies ruled directly by the people, like in Ancient Greece were all the men would get together and sort things out. I didn't know you Canadians still had the queen as head of state. Is that the way things are in Australia and the other commonwealth countries?

you are confusing the origins of words and concepts with modern understanding

Aristotle's division of perverted and pure government really doesnt apply to modern political science, for better or worse

Wikipedia's Canada Page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada) has Canada as Constitutional Monarchy

Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy in lieu of the fact her representative government is granted authority by the Monarch, which then in-turn operated democratically in its representative body.... So in all application you are a Monarchial Constitutional Democratic Republic, the USA is a People's Constitutional Democratic Republic (or at least is SUPPOSED to be)...

you are confusing the origins of words and concepts with modern understanding

Aristotle's division of perverted and pure government really doesnt apply to modern political science, for better or worse

Aristotelian/Platonic... Aristotle was the advocate of Democracy, Plato of The Republic.... either views are not adopted in their present form. As the "Republic" did not have elected officials, it was ruled by Philosopher Kings...

Aristotelian/Platonic... Aristotle was the advocate of Democracy, Plato of The Republic.... either views are not adopted in their present form. As the "Republic" did not have elected officials, it was ruled by Philosopher Kings...

Aristotle advocated democracy? I thought he wanted a king!

Aristotle advocated democracy? I thought he wanted a king!

Opps, you are right on Aristotle...

I however, think Plato was right... His form seems to be the most successful, historically.

You Canadians would be so much more fun if you actually were a shogonate... and then the US would be too for that matter. (just teasing of course)

Actually, in practice you guys are a Parlimentary Democracy but officially the Governor General functions as the representative of the Queen making you guys officially a Constitutional Monarchy.

And you thought the American Electoral College was complicated. ;)

Aristotelian/Platonic... Aristotle was the advocate of Democracy, Plato of The Republic.... either views are not adopted in their present form. As the "Republic" did not have elected officials, it was ruled by Philosopher Kings...

i was refering to Aristotle's comparison of political systems based on which was a pure or inpure (perverted) form.

Rule by one

Pure: monarch, impure: Tyrant

rule by some

Pure: Oligarcy (i think), impure: Aristocracy

Rule by many

Pure: Republic, impure: Democracy


i think thats how it all goes....

If you're a Canadian, and didn't know our country is and always has been a constitutional monarchy, well shame on you. Shame on your teachers as well, for failing to do right by you.

As for the article, I'd sooner retain Elizabeth II as our head of State than have some crass politician or crony-of-the-moment representing us on the world stage. There's absolutely nothing for us to be ashamed of, as far as our ties to the former British Empire and later the Commonwealth of Nations. Until our constitution was patriated in 1982 under Trudeau, The Dominion of Canada was still officially considered British North America. Our laws were part of the BNA act, and were handed down to us from a time when Britain literally ruled the world.

Our constitution is based upon the BNA act, based upon British law. What shame is there in that? I am not moved by arguments in favour of establishing a republic - and I'd like to think that the ongoing actions of the republic to the south of us would discourage that sort of talk.

We've got a good thing getting started here. Why would we want to become something we've grown to despise? Let the Americans laugh at us and say things like 'how quaint' we are. We laugh at them often enough, after all.

Well, out of complete and stereotypical 'Murikan ignorance, I voted for shogunate, eh. :D

Let the Americans laugh at us and say things like 'how quaint' we are. We laugh at them often enough, after all.

LOL thats awesome

Oddly enough, I've gotten into arguments online over this...

"You're a Constitutional Monarchy."
"No we aren't."
"Yes, you are."
"Dude, I live here, I think I know."
"So why's the Queen on your money?"
"Um..."

As in Queen Elizabeth II is our Head of State, .


Poor you. Follow the foot steps of the Irish. Write them a letter informing the Queen that you no longer wish to have her as head of Canada and pay £10 million to her and bobs your uncle!

Canada = Constitutional Monarchy

There's no question about it. The United Kingdom is also a Constitutional Monarchy, as well as Denmark.

A Constitutional Monarchy is any government, established under a constitution, which recognises an hereditary or elected monarch as its head of state.

And while the Queen (or her representative, the Govenor General) acts no more than like a ruber stamp at this point; they are still, in lieu of constitution, the head of state, and parliament sits on "his or her" pleasure.

If you removed the Queen as head of state, then you would be a Parliamentary Democracy; but as long as that aspect is maintained (even if only ceremonaly) Canada is a constitutional monarchy

I don't even know why we have any ties to the queen anymore. It's rather stupid if you ask me.
Because it's cool.

It *is* surprising how many people actually think Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy.

Good thread, thanks.

Aren't all parlimentary democracies necessarily republics? I think either would be correct in Canada's case.

Britain is a parliamentary democracy and we're not a republic.

Oddly enough, I've gotten into arguments online over this...

"You're a Constitutional Monarchy."
"No we aren't."
"Yes, you are."
"Dude, I live here, I think I know."
"So why's the Queen on your money?"
"Um..."
"Because we're part of the Commonwealth."

Canada is a federation, and our government is a parliamentary democracy.

Republic doesn't accurately describe us, as we still have a Governor-General.

If the question were "What kind of state is Canada?", the correct answer in my opinion would be a constitutional monarchy as one would look to the de jure formalities and constitutional arrangements; if the question were "What kind of government does Canada have?" one would look to the de facto administrative authority.

Queen Lizzie is the de jure Head of State of Canada. Her representative, the Governor-General, is the de facto Head of State. The Canadian Prime Minister, who holds office through commission by the Queen through her representative the Governor-General on the basis (by convention) of holding the confidence of a majority of members of the House of Commons, is head of Government, even though governmental authority is derived from orders-in-council made by the Governor-General in Council (ie the Cabinet, not necessarily the Governor-General herself).

By definition, the Parliament of Canada includes the House of Commons, the Senate and the Queen.

By separating the concepts of 'State' and 'Government' we are in a better position to answer the question.

Aren't all parlimentary democracies necessarily republics? I think either would be correct in Canada's case.

Canada still has a Queen, and the UK does too, which makes them both a constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary democracy.

Oddly enough, I've gotten into arguments online over this...

"You're a Constitutional Monarchy."
"No we aren't."
"Yes, you are."
"Dude, I live here, I think I know."
"So why's the Queen on your money?"
"Um..."


"Because we're part of the Commonwealth."

Because the Queen is your head of state. Although the best argument I've heard against this was "George Washington is on your money - is he your head of state?".

Because the Queen is your head of state. Although the best argument I've heard against this was "George Washington is on your money - is he your head of state?".

Doesn't quite work. The Queen is still alive. And, Washington was our head of state.

Interesting question: When the Queen dies or abdicates, does Canada have to get all new money? And if so, how much will that cost?

Oddly enough, I've gotten into arguments online over this...

"You're a Constitutional Monarchy."
"No we aren't."
"Yes, you are."
"Dude, I live here, I think I know."
"So why's the Queen on your money?"
"Um..."


Yeah... we have those same arguments with some American's who seem to insist that they are a democracy!

:D

Satan is the Mayor of Canada.

Satan is the Mayor of Canada.

Non-existent beings get non-existent posts. Eh, it works out.

Because the Queen is your head of state. Although the best argument I've heard against this was "George Washington is on your money - is he your head of state?".

George Washington was a head of state, yes... ;)

Yeah... we have those same arguments with some American's who seem to insist that they are a democracy!

:D

We're a People's Constitutional Democratic Republic (or at least supposed to be)... The "People's" "Constitutional" and "Democratic" part keeping coming into more and more questions these days...

Canada is a federation, and our government is a parliamentary democracy.

Republic doesn't accurately describe us, as we still have a Governor-General.

No, we're not, Willamena. Sheesh.

We're a CONfederation, and our government IS a Constitutional Monarchy.

Kept nodding off in History class, I see. Pity.

I'm an ignorant American, but I took a (barely) educated guess and said Parliamentary Democracy.

*checks article*

Wow. I didn't know Canada was still linked to Britain. Shit.

I'm an ignorant American, but I took a (barely) educated guess and said Parliamentary Democracy.

*checks article*

Wow. I didn't know Canada was still linked to Britain. Shit.

Queen Elizabeth II is Queen of:
Anitgua and Barbuda
Australia
The Bahamas
Barbados
Belize
Canada
Grenada
New Zealand
Papua New Guinea
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Solomon Islands
Tuvalu
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

And while not recognized as Queen; she is recognized as Head of the Commonwealth in Jamaica.

No, we're not, Willamena. Sheesh.

We're a CONfederation, and our government IS a Constitutional Monarchy.

Kept nodding off in History class, I see. Pity.
We're not a true confederation. A true confederation has no federal government. A federation does.

The question posed was what is our form of government, and that is parliamentary democracy. SA and Protectorates said it well: Constitutional Monarchy is our type of state.

Because it's cool.



Yes, having the queen's watchful eye over Canada is a thought that makes me feel safe at night. I know it's tradition but I'm of English decent and I don't want anything to do with it anymore.

Interesting question: When the Queen dies or abdicates, does Canada have to get all new money? And if so, how much will that cost?
New currency is printed even if she doesn't die or abdicate - just to update the image as she ages.

Seems like there is a great deal of confusion.
Canada -is- a Parliamentary Democracy. The Queen is no longer the head of state, due to our new constitution that basically makes Canada P.D.. As for the difference between a REPUBLIC and a P.D., it's that Republics elect an Executive, whereas P.D.s elect parties. Otherwise it is very similar, but that is the main difference (not saying there arent any other ones).
In the World Factbook, Canada is listed as a Parliamentary Democracy.

In theory we have a constitutional monarchy

but in practice we have a representitive democracy

the influence of the queen is marginal at best

It's marginal here in England as well :D (maybe that's a little to kind, near-non-existant)

New currency is printed even if she doesn't die or abdicate - just to update the image as she ages.
And really, she's starting to look like hell.

Funny, we have a foreign monarch on our $20 bills. There's simply somthing worng with that. It signals a lack of independence not tradition and my family immagrated to Canada from the UK (most England) and I really wouldn't be heart broken if we reduced the ties. It's the 21st century and I think it's time to move on. We can be allies with the UK.

We can be allies with the UK.

This is real life, not International Incidents... not every political tie is based around war.

And really, she's starting to look like hell.
I beg to differ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ac.thequeen.jpg). She is beautiful at any age.

Interesting question: When the Queen dies or abdicates, does Canada have to get all new money? And if so, how much will that cost?

Yes, we'll get all new coins, and any paper currency with her face on it will be replaced - but that's just the twenty dollar bill, it wouldn't take too much to replace it.

We've just had ALL of our money redesigned, btw. There've been three or four major and semi-major changes to our currency in the last twenty years, in no small part to discourage counterfeiting rings.

The last redesigns are real beauties, with everything from watermark portraits to transparent windows with holography thrown in for good measure. Let me see if there's a link I can dig up:

http://www.downtownstamps.bc.ca/newsletters/news52.html

There's the new hundred.

http://www.downtownstamps.bc.ca/newsletters/news58.html

There's the twenty.

I've yet to see the new ten or the new five, and of course we don't have twos or ones anymore. I hear there's a new fifty, but I've yet to see them.

How much does it cost?

I dunno.

This is real life, not International Incidents... not every political tie is based around war.



I'm stating that I understand our purpose/reason for the ties we have to the British Royal Family but that we are a seperate nation.

Funny, we have a foreign monarch on our $20 bills. There's simply somthing worng with that. It signals a lack of independence not tradition and my family immagrated to Canada from the UK (most England) and I really wouldn't be heart broken if we reduced the ties. It's the 21st century and I think it's time to move on. We can be allies with the UK.
That's just it - she's not a foreigner, not in any Commonwealth nation. That's what unites us together as a Commonwealth.

That's just it - she's not a foreigner, not in any Commonwealth nation. That's what unites us together as a Commonwealth.

Hear, hear.

That's just it - she's not a foreigner, not in any Commonwealth nation. That's what unites us together as a Commonwealth.



Wow, I didn't realize so many Canadians were proud of this Royalty.

Wow, I didn't realize so many Canadians were proud of this Royalty.

Why should they not be? Belonging to the commonwealth can only be good for a country and Canada has never suffered from its ties with Britain (unless you count being involved in wars), and of course people enjoy the standard of life that they live today through their history as part of the Empire. I can not think of a plausible reason for wanting to do away with the House of Windsor.

La Terra, it is part of our nation's heritage, why would we not be proud?

My Political Science book sitting in front of me says that Canada is a Constitutional Monarchy. According to this same book this term is synonymous with Parliamentary Monarchies. They are not litterally the same at all but they're both terms given to represent the same government. I suspect that the CIA World Factbook's classing is more technical (ie: using the words in the classing litterally). Regardless I haven't seen 'parliamentary democracy' in my book at all.

Another thing... The Constitution Act enacted in 1982 has little to do with separation from the monarch. It clarifies Acts recognized by Canada as law and created the Canadian Bill of Rights. The monarch retains her duties however small they are. Essentially the governor general acts to maintain a working parliament, and a prime minister. She also signs bills which she has to sign according to her job description.

I've got something to say about Aristotle but allas I've no time. Tune in next time for our exciting conclusion.

I can not think of a plausible reason for wanting to do away with the House of Windsor.

2 words: Prince Charles.

Oh yes the tainted democracy is known as a demagougy, or something spely similarly to that :), and the oligarchy is the tainted form of the aristocracy, literally: ruled by the few. A tyrant is not necessairily a bad ruler, although most people these days take it to mean that.

wow. i love how the rant swings between attacking current conservatives for embracing america and attacking the liberals for defining canadian culture...

what the fuck?

wow. i love how the rant swings between attacking current conservatives for embracing america and attacking the liberals for defining canadian culture...

what the fuck?
Are you reading the same thread I am? *thinks not*

Interesting question: When the Queen dies or abdicates, does Canada have to get all new money? And if so, how much will that cost?
no, i've got some pennies with king george on them.

they'll just stop making the ones with the queen and start making them with charles' face instead. oh my. something sillier than the loonie and toonie.

[QUOTE=Hole Where Evil Lives]

Another thing... The Constitution Act enacted in 1982 has little to do with separation from the monarch. It clarifies Acts recognized by Canada as law and created the Canadian Bill of Rights. The monarch retains her duties however small they are. Essentially the governor general acts to maintain a working parliament, and a prime minister. She also signs bills which she has to sign according to her job description.[QUOTE]

It replaced the British North America Act which had been in use at least since Confederation (1867), but yes, you're right, it didn't have anything to do with abolishing the monarchy.

Maybe we will sever all ties eventually, but I don't see it coming about in my lifetime. Traditions run deep though, and it'll take more than Charles to make us embrace the notion of Republic. A lot more.

Are you reading the same thread I am? *thinks not*
i was reading the essay.

i was reading the essay.
Hmm. I suppose I should, too.

Oh dear.

It would be interesting to have a Shogunate! Yeah I think if the Queen actually exercised her power she wouldn't have power for too long. She is essentially ceremonial to Canada. The difference between republics and democracies is that republics are bound more to constitutions than democracies. As you can tell thought the lines blur a lot.

The difference is in a pure democracy everyone votes for everything. However, at a national level, that is really impossible, hence why America elects representatives to make the big decisions for them, making us a republic, that is the difference.

no, i've got some pennies with king george on them.

they'll just stop making the ones with the queen and start making them with charles' face instead. oh my. something sillier than the loonie and toonie.

Charles won't be King. Prince William (the oldest son) will be. If Charles does, it will only be for short time before he keels over.

I'd rather have a Republic bound by a constitution, than a pure democracy... One look at human nature, will give you all the reason for such.

Hitler, was empowered by democracy....

Charles won't be King. Prince William (the oldest son) will be. If Charles does, it will only be for short time before he keels over.

I'll agree with you. It really is a shame that Charles won't get the chance to be King 'til he's old and set in his ways. He'd've made a good King ten or fifteen years ago, when he at least seemed more flexible. Lately he's been coming off as just as much a stiff as his Dad.

In you're choosing of things to put on the poll, you forgot to put the correct answer : The greatest country in the world.

I AM CANADIAN!! :)

Hey all, I'm from vancouver! yaaaay :) :D

Also from Vancouver, aka Vansterdam aka Vong Kong aka lotus land aka....ok thats enough from me.

One thing that Americans rarely realize, and that Canadians frequently forget, is that back in 1776 there were more than 13 British colonies in North America. It so happens that only 13 of them seceded from the first British Empire while a small handful just to the north rejected the notion and remained loyal to the mother country.
The formation of Canada in 1867 was more than a banding together to defend themselves from an America angered by British support of the Confederate States of America; it was a rejection of American political and social values.
Canada represented a different approach to democracy.

One thing that Americans rarely realize, and that Canadians frequently forget, is that back in 1776 there were more than 13 British colonies in North America. It so happens that only 13 of them seceded from the first British Empire while a small handful just to the north rejected the notion and remained loyal to the mother country.
The formation of Canada in 1867 was more than a banding together to defend themselves from an America angered by British support of the Confederate States of America; it was a rejection of American political and social values.
Canada represented a different approach to democracy.

Don't even get me started on the Confederacy ;).... I travel over the Robert E. Lee Memorial bridge, every day, and am damn proud of it :D

It's a constitutional monarchy. The head of government is a prime minister from parliment and the head of state is the King/Queen of England.

The CIA World Factbook lists it as a "confederation with a parliamentary democracy"

Don't even get me started on the Confederacy ;).... I travel over the Robert E. Lee Memorial bridge, every day, and am damn proud of it :D

Uhh...what's the confederacy got to do with anything, other than your sense of pride?

Do Americans realize they attempted to annex the areas now known as Canada by force in 1812 and lost? We burned down the White House. It was rebuilt though. Lots of dams too I think. You captured Toronto. That's the problem with your ideals from confederation, manifest destiny came with it. It was a joint effort by both what would become Canada, and Great Britain to allow independence for Canada.

Back on target... Aristotle's beliefs:
-One ruler
Rule for the general good: Monarchy
Rule for own good: Tyrany
-Few rulers
Rule for the general good: Aristocracy
Rule for own good: Oligarchy
-Many rulers
Rule for the general good: Polity (constitutional democracy)
Rule for own good: Democracy

The other thing I wanted to mention is that we aren't really talking about centralization so things like confederation, federation, federalist, etc can be left out. If we were talking about centralization I'll say that Canada would be considered the most decentralized federalist system of government in the world (thanks to our judges).