NationStates Jolt Archive

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.

Taxes
my right to wed whoever I wish
my right to buy assult wepons (was actualy thinking about doing that)
(notice not picking out all bad things)

my social life (two of my friends are dead now ... iraq)
also my semi gf being shipped over seas

... I am sure there are many more

GENITAL WARTS. I'll leave you to fill in the details.

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.

Bush, Rumsfeld, and Cheaney daily rape my cattle and stampede my women.

Money I think is always gonna be the biggest effect, unless you are one of the exceptionally unlucky to have a friend or family member killed in iraq.

Other effects, education and whatnot, probably don't have visible effects for 10-15 years.

- Increased property taxes due to county and state government having to make up for lowered income taxes coupled with increased spending.

- Fear of censorship and politicization of my profession.

- Increased polarization on issues that shouldn't be a problem (ie. allowing an adequate health clause for any legislation banning a medical procedure, equal protection for all citizens, etc.)

- My library records/emails/etc. can now be perused by the FBI any time they want, without cause or permission.

- *really trying very hard to think of something good, but not succeeding*

- Knowledge that when I have kids the public education system will probably be screwed beyond repair and I need to start saving now for the private education I will have to provide them.

- The lowered dollar in the global market meaning that I have to pay even more for anything I import.

He has elevated my concerns regarding America's hunger for my nation's resources, as well as highlighted his nation's two-facedness when dealing in trade disputes. He has made it more difficult for my countrymen to have access to flu vaccinations. He has increased my stress levels by calling for new nuclear weapons to be developed and deployed, very likely within my own country. He has increased my sense of paranoia thanks to the extraordinary powers granted via legislation and Homeland 'Security'. He has triggered my sense of fear by foregoing the rule of Law. He has infuriated me by mangling the English language, and by expounding on subjects he himself knows little or nothing about, save for what Dick & Karl tell him he knows. He has estranged me from my American friends, who I can no longer freely visit. He has fostered divisiveness and political polarization to the extent that any voice of dissent is regarded as unreasonable at best, treasonable at worst, with the result being, for me, a sense of loss- a loss of unstated comaraderie which I at one time felt. And lastly, by seeming to not care one whit for the appalling loss of human lives by his own hand in Afghanistan, Iraq, and as governor of Texas, he has underscored for me the depths to which a man can fall in the pursuit of a political agenda.

That's pretty much it.

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.

Oh yeah, and people should only ever care about things that affect them personally.

- Bush's incentives for outsourcing and general "Yay for big business and fuck the American middle class" attitude has brought my family to the brink of bankruptcy.

- Bush's warmongering makes me less respected by citizens of other countries for being an American, and makes me feel ashamed to be one. It also may eventually make a draft necessary if he over-extends the American military, and the prospect of dying in some god-forsaken patch of sand for a war I don't believe in is a horrifying one.

- Bush is slowly filling up the important government positions with hardcore conservative Christians and general lunatics. I genuinely fear the further erosion of my civil rights and free speech. Bush's attempt at a "Federal Marriage Amendment" is quite enough to convince me that he's willing to ignore the Constitution if it means fucking up people's lives in a way that pleases him.

- With the Patriot Act, the FBI can look through your library records with impunity and without permission... this is insane. And some of Bush's goons are whining that the Patriot Act doesn't have teeth.

Taxes
Everybody pays taxes, and taxes go up every couple of years.

my right to wed whoever I wish
Bush tried to help that cause by having a public vote.
We voted "no", so how is that a Presidential decision?

my right to buy assult wepons (was actualy thinking about doing that)
Are you sure you're not thinking of your State officials,
because I can still buy assault weapons.

my social life (two of my friends are dead now ... iraq)
My mother died back in Sept. 11, 2001 - sounds like the same people.

also my semi bf being shipped over seas
Most everyone in the military travels overseas.
Just pray that one of those nutjobs doesn't kidnap her.

Oh boy.....not another bush-bashing thread....

Whatever, I'm....um....out of it right now.....I think

He's affecting the whole world.

Now, would someone please assassinate him already? x_X

Taxes
Everybody pays taxes, and taxes go up every couple of years.

Everybody does not pay property taxes. With Bush's supposed "tax cuts," he has shifted the burden from the taxpayers as a whole onto a much smaller number of homeowners, who are generally middle class.

my right to wed whoever I wish
Bush tried to help that cause by having a public vote.
We voted "no", so how is that a Presidential decision?

Bush didn't have a public vote - Bush first claimed "it's a state issue, let the states decide." Then, when a state government decided to allow gay marriage, Bush yelled "It's an attack on marriage! Let's add a discrimination amendment to the Constitution! Fuck other religions! Mine is the only one that counts!"

my social life (two of my friends are dead now ... iraq)
My mother died back in Sept. 11, 2001 - sounds like the same people.

No ties whatsoever between Iraq and 9/11 - for the record.

also my semi bf being shipped over seas
Most everyone in the military travels overseas.
Just pray that one of those nutjobs doesn't kidnap her.

This isn't true. Most national guard members, for instance, do not travel overseas except in war time - and often not even then (Bush himself, for instance).

Taxes
Everybody pays taxes, and taxes go up every couple of years.

my right to wed whoever I wish
Bush tried to help that cause by having a public vote.
We voted "no", so how is that a Presidential decision?

my right to buy assult wepons (was actualy thinking about doing that)
Are you sure you're not thinking of your State officials,
because I can still buy assault weapons.

my social life (two of my friends are dead now ... iraq)
My mother died back in Sept. 11, 2001 - sounds like the same people.

also my semi bf being shipped over seas
Most everyone in the military travels overseas.
Just pray that one of those nutjobs doesn't kidnap her.


lol I like how you assumed my assult rifles was a bash like I said I was thinking about buying one he helped with that

all seriousness
Sure you just are not insecure and assuming I am flat bashing :)


also my semi bf being shipped over seas
Most everyone in the military travels overseas.
Just pray that one of those nutjobs doesn't kidnap her.

yo I said GF not BF lol (freuidian slip I think)

He's affecting the whole world.

Now, would someone please assassinate him already? x_X

How can you assassinate an animatronic puppet? Better to whack the guy(s)with his hand up Shrub's control box...

Increased property taxes due to county and state government having
to make up for lowered income taxes coupled with increased spending.
Again; here someone is confusing State decisions with Federal ones.
My property taxes have gone down this year.

- Fear of censorship and politicization of my profession.
If Bush bashers are being censored then how does a movie like Farhenheit
9/11 get to play through theatres and Pay-Per-View, but the documentary
on John Kerry gets the ax? What is your profession?

- Increased polarization on issues that shouldn't be a problem (ie. allowing
an adequate health clause for any legislation banning a medical procedure,
equal protection for all citizens, etc.)
It's odd how so many people forget that the healthcare problem started
with Hillary Clinton's reforming of healthcare while she was first lady.

- My library records/emails/etc. can now be perused by the FBI any time they want, without cause or permission.
The CIA was doing it way before the FBI was allowed.

- Knowledge that when I have kids the public education system will
probably be screwed beyond repair and I need to start saving now for
the private education I will have to provide them.
Another situation where you need to blame your local government.

- The lowered dollar in the global market meaning that I have to pay even more for anything I import.
Actually the dollar is higher than it's ever been.
[/QUOTE]

The energy giant that supplies most of the electricity to my area went crying to Bush about how they aren't doing very well profit-wise, so could they please please please raise rates? They were allowed to do so, and we struggle every month to make ends meet and get the elecric paid. Five years ago, our bill was $30 a month in the cooler times of the year, and around $100-$150 during the hotter times. The lowest it's been since Bush allowed these greedy grasping twits to raise and keep raising their rates has been $97.

I can't help but wonder...how much money would be saved by not handing out huge bonuses to all the Dilbert-like pointy-haired bosses? More than if hundreds of workers were downsized?

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.

"In Germany, they first came for the communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist," said the Rev. Martin Niemöller. "Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up."

Slippery slope.

In the USA, they first came for the terroists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a terroist. Then they came for the Muslims and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Muslim. Then they came for the Gays. I didn't speak up because I was straight. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up.

Bush stands for imperialism and the curtailing of human rights. I have many reasons for opposing him but this seems to be the most relevent way of answering the topic.

He has directly diminished the quality of my public education.

Now, he proposes to cut my Pell grants, which I need to be able to afford college. Hmm...maybe he's trying to snare me in the poverty draft so I can become one of his toy soldiers?

Anyway, his tax cuts and unfunded education mandates put a severe crimp in the IL budget (to my knowledge, the state taxes are calculated based on federal returns). I went to high school in one of the fastest-growing districts in the nation, and they badly needed $$$ for new school construction. The state could not provide it, and the burden fell on the local voters, who voted down modest property tax increases time and time again. The $hit hit the fan my senior year of high school. Class sizes had gone up to 40, and the district started having problems paying for everyday expenses. In one year, my mother's escrow payments on the monthly mortgage went up by $500 just to cover mandatory expenses like teacher pension fund contributions. She was taxed out of the house because Bush rammed his tax cuts through, which had a ripple effect on the state budget, while at the same time proposing unfunded education mandates like NCLB, and my district got screwed the worst because of it. :( The thought never occured to Bush to consider the effects his "My rich cronie$ fir$t" policies would have on local economies, now did it?

Also, Mom works for UAL, which is getting screwed by high petroleum prices, and her job may be in jeopardy because of Bush's ties to the Saudis. So yeah, I have damn good reason to be pissed at Bu$h. :upyours:

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.

He keeps stealing my newspaper. And his damn dog craps on my lawn! :mad:

The thought never occured to Bush to consider the effects his "My rich cronie$ fir$t" policies would have on local economies, now did it?
I'm sure it did, but alas, "compassionate conservatism" is neither compassionate nor conservative. Discuss.

He keeps stealing my newspaper. And his damn dog craps on my lawn! :mad:And I seriously suspect it was Condi Rice that broke my window and stole my CD player, Amp and Speaker box last month. I know that bitch is thumpin my pioneer. :mad:

Increased property taxes due to county and state government having
to make up for lowered income taxes coupled with increased spending.
Again; here someone is confusing State decisions with Federal ones.
My property taxes have gone down this year.

This is the exception, rather than the rule. The federal government rules that the states must spend $X on certain things. When the federal government doesn't have that money, they do not reduce the spending requirements on the states. The states don't want to raise income taxes either, so they request more money from the counties. The only way the counties can possibly make this up is property taxes. Thus, the increase in property taxes that many people are seeing.

- Fear of censorship and politicization of my profession.
If Bush bashers are being censored then how does a movie like Farhenheit
9/11 get to play through theatres and Pay-Per-View, but the documentary
on John Kerry gets the ax? What is your profession?

Try looking into Bush's treatment of science.

- Increased polarization on issues that shouldn't be a problem (ie. allowing
an adequate health clause for any legislation banning a medical procedure,
equal protection for all citizens, etc.)
It's odd how so many people forget that the healthcare problem started
with Hillary Clinton's reforming of healthcare while she was first lady.

I don't think Hillary Clinton banned medical procedures, without allowing for adequate clauses for the fact that the health of the patient may requires it. I also don't think Hillary Clinton was attempting to get rid of equal protection under the law for all citizens or entrench the disparities that are already there - which has nthing to do with healthcare.

- My library records/emails/etc. can now be perused by the FBI any time they want, without cause or permission.
The CIA was doing it way before the FBI was allowed.

I am a US citizen. Technically, not having traveled outside the country, the CIA had no jurisdiction over me whatsoever.

- Knowledge that when I have kids the public education system will
probably be screwed beyond repair and I need to start saving now for
the private education I will have to provide them.
Another situation where you need to blame your local government.

Wrong. Bush's "no child left behind" bullshit is further ruining education systems across the entire nation.

- The lowered dollar in the global market meaning that I have to pay even more for anything I import.
Actually the dollar is higher than it's ever been.
[/QUOTE]

Funny, considering it just fell a couple of days ago. So you are very, very wrong.

I'm sure it did, but alas, "compassionate conservatism" is neither compassionate nor conservative. Discuss.

Well, maybe it did, but I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. :D Ignorance, while still evil, is a lesser evil than deliberately screwing people.

This is the exception, rather than the rule. The federal government rules that the states must spend $X on certain things. When the federal government doesn't have that money, they do not reduce the spending requirements on the states. The states don't want to raise income taxes either, so they request more money from the counties. The only way the counties can possibly make this up is property taxes. Thus, the increase in property taxes that many people are seeing.



Try looking into Bush's treatment of science.



I don't think Hillary Clinton banned medical procedures, without allowing for adequate clauses for the fact that the health of the patient may requires it. I also don't think Hillary Clinton was attempting to get rid of equal protection under the law for all citizens or entrench the disparities that are already there - which has nthing to do with healthcare.



I am a US citizen. Technically, not having traveled outside the country, the CIA had no jurisdiction over me whatsoever.



Wrong. Bush's "no child left behind" bullshit is further ruining education systems across the entire nation.



Funny, considering it just fell a couple of days ago. So you are very, very wrong.[/QUOTE]


He still did not answer my Freudian slip comment

Hey Eric, are you going to address everybody's comments regarding how Shrub has affected our day to day lives, or are you just going to take the ones in point form?

Seriously, My 401k lost about 15k during Dubya's last term compared to steady growth through all of Wild Bill's tenur. I don't think it's any more direct than impacting my pocketbook.

And I seriously suspect it was Condi Rice that broke my window and stole my CD player, Amp and Speaker box last month. I know that bitch is thumpin my pioneer. :mad:

*blink* Thumping My Pioneer. SOunds like an innuendo. Hehehe.

*blink* Thumping My Pioneer. SOunds like an innuendo. Hehehe.
better then having the person that previously heald her post "thump" his "pioneer"

He has directly diminished the quality of my public education.

Now, he proposes to cut my Pell grants, which I need to be able to afford college. Hmm...maybe he's trying to snare me in the poverty draft so I can become one of his toy soldiers?

Anyway, his tax cuts and unfunded education mandates put a severe crimp in the IL budget (to my knowledge, the state taxes are calculated based on federal returns). I went to high school in one of the fastest-growing districts in the nation, and they badly needed $$$ for new school construction. The state could not provide it, and the burden fell on the local voters, who voted down modest property tax increases time and time again. The $hit hit the fan my senior year of high school. Class sizes had gone up to 40, and the district started having problems paying for everyday expenses. In one year, my mother's escrow payments on the monthly mortgage went up by $500 just to cover mandatory expenses like teacher pension fund contributions. She was taxed out of the house because Bush rammed his tax cuts through, which had a ripple effect on the state budget, while at the same time proposing unfunded education mandates like NCLB, and my district got screwed the worst because of it. :( The thought never occured to Bush to consider the effects his "My rich cronie$ fir$t" policies would have on local economies, now did it?

Also, Mom works for UAL, which is getting screwed by high petroleum prices, and her job may be in jeopardy because of Bush's ties to the Saudis. So yeah, I have damn good reason to be pissed at Bu$h. :upyours:

Since when does your "need" constitute a claim on someone else's money (i.e., taxes)? Go to a cheaper school. Or - here's a novel thought - get a JOB and PAY for your schooling, instead of demanding the government steal someone else's money to pay for YOUR schooling.

UAL is screwed because of their poor management, not because of some left wing-nut conspiracy theory.

*blink* Thumping My Pioneer. SOunds like an innuendo. Hehehe.Speaking of innuendo's, the announcement of her nomination for secretary of state makes me wonder if she's not 'thumpin' Dubya's pioneer'.

Seriously, My 401k lost about 15k during Dubya's last term compared to steady growth through all of Wild Bill's tenur. I don't think it's any more direct than impacting my pocketbook.
Exactly *how* is Bush responsible for the decline in stock prices among the companies in which your 401k invests?

Well, Bush sent me to Iraq, and I don't hold it against him. Most soldiers don't, and neither do their families. I'm glad I went, proud of my service, and I was excited about combat.

Since when does your "need" constitute a claim on someone else's money (i.e., taxes)? Go to a cheaper school. Or - here's a novel thought - get a JOB and PAY for your schooling, instead of demanding the government steal someone else's money to pay for YOUR schooling.

UAL is screwed because of their poor management, not because of some left wing-nut conspiracy theory.

Happen to agree to some extent … my home highschool district had HORRIBLE money management issues

I wont go into the individuals but they include stealing money out of fundraised accounts (for band and the play) and paying for new uniforms for football players that have not won a game in 8 years

Silly stuff
Ontop of being horrible admins

But that is soly their fault … they keep doing this stuff (like building ala-cart lines for 10 k when they could be using it to buy books which they just told students they could not afford) and that’s after like a 1.2 mil levy increase last year

Silly people

My property taxes have gone down this year.

Mine have gone up. I cancel you out.

If Bush bashers are being censored then how does a movie like Farhenheit 9/11 get to play through theatres and Pay-Per-View, but the documentary on John Kerry gets the ax?

The documentary on John Kerry was slated to run on television. Surely you understand the difference between censorship on TV and censorship in the theater. Maybe you don't.

It's odd how so many people forget that the healthcare problem started with Hillary Clinton's reforming of healthcare while she was first lady.

Yes ... because everyone had great access to health care all through the 1980s. Just look at how clean and how well the VA hospitals were run during the Reagan years. Oh yeah ... it alllll started with Hillary .... [/sarcasm]

The CIA was doing it way before the FBI was allowed.

The CIA does not have a mandate to work within the borders of the US. You're thinking of the NSA and they can't do anything without a warrant - just like the FBI couldn't pre-Patriot Act.

Actually the dollar is higher than it's ever been.


Against what?! The fed recently announced that they were going to do what they did in 1985 and deliberately devalue the dollar by nearly 50% in the hopes (yes, "the hopes" ... it didn't work in '85, but surely it will now!) that foreign investors will be more likely to buy our T bills. Even Greenspan, who has been steady as a rock through all manner of economic loop-de-loops, is biting his nails over our trade deficit and national debt.

Geeze ... take an economics class or somethin'

Exactly *how* is Bush responsible for the decline in stock prices among the companies in which your 401k invests?I'm not being drug into a typical Repub, 'we're responsible for everything that's good, but the bad stuff's not our fault' arguement. Figure it out for yourself kid.

I'm not being drug into a typical Repub, 'we're responsible for everything that's good, but the bad stuff's not our fault' arguement. Figure it out for yourself kid.
LOL! In other words, you got NOTHIN'! Typical.

BTW, the correct word is "dragged", not "drug." Kid.

Well, Bush sent me to Iraq, and I don't hold it against him. Most soldiers don't, and neither do their families. I'm glad I went, proud of my service, and I was excited about combat.Yeah, well my niece is on her way there right now and she says she's scared shitless.

I think she's more honest (and intelligent) than you.

LOL! In other words, you got NOTHIN'! Typical.Keep fishin, I ain't bitin.

Yeah, well my niece is on her way there right now and she says she's scared shitless.

I think she's more honest (and intelligent) than you.
ok what was the basis for that?
or did you feel the needless urge to flame for no particular reason

Damn, someone already beat me to the "George Bush gave me a sexually transmitted disease" joke.

Well, despite what others may think our president can deeply effect a person's daily life. Take mine for example. I am the only person in my family who is not a Bush worshiper...I mean supporter. Plus I am the only Democrat in me entire household (despite the fact my mother is a registered Democrat, she has voted straight Republican since Gerald Ford.) Thank God I am escaping next year to a left-leaning private liberal arts college.

ok what was the basis for that?
or did you feel the needless urge to flame for no particular reasonSorry, substitute 'or' for 'and' in the parenthesis.

The basis is that if you were 'excited' about combat you're either lying or an idiot.

Yeah, well my niece is on her way there right now and she says she's scared shitless.

I think she's more honest (and intelligent) than you.
Being scared is normal, and honest. However, the intelligence part seems to be lacking. It is extremely naive to join the military and assume you will never be deployed to a conflict.

Bush affected that ladys life whose pharmacist refused to fill her prescription for birth control

Bush affected that ladys life whose pharmacist refused to fill her prescription for birth control
Absolute bullcrap. It was the pharmacist who was responsible.

Absolute bullcrap. It was the pharmacist who was responsible.

And yet I believe that Bush supports legislation that would make what that pharmacist did perfectly legal, and thus affect other women similarly.

the TaliBush is trying to turn america into a theocracy

Damn, someone already beat me to the "George Bush gave me a sexually transmitted disease" joke.
Sorry 'bout that. :)

the TaliBush is trying to turn america into a theocracyYou hit on a major point there RA, it's not just Dubya, he couldn't do it all alone. And they are pushing a secular christian agenda.

BTW I prefer the term 'Bushiban', it has a better ring to it.

You hit on a major point there RA, it's not just Dubya, he couldn't do it all alone. And they are pushing a secular christian agenda.

BTW I prefer the term 'Bushiban', it has a better ring to it.
LOL yeah it does.

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.
setting aside the economic havok his administration has wreaked upon my country, and setting aside the theocratic rule he is instituting, and setting aside the complete dismantling of the Constitution that he seems to be supporting, and setting aside the fact that he has totally abandoned the values that conservativism used to stand for...

Bush has made it impossible for me to speak with any of my classmates from Europe, since when they call Americans stupid i have no choice but to agree with them. over half of our country has shown itself to be irretrievably stupid, and i really can't blame the rest of the world for regarding us all as barbarians. i love my country, but i can't seem to find any way to rationally defend my countrymen.

And yet I believe that Bush supports legislation that would make what that pharmacist did perfectly legal, and thus affect other women similarly.


That is absolutely right. The new deficit spending increase bill currently has a rider tacked on that would make it legal for hospitals, clinics and pharmicists to deny abortions, abortion counselling and birth control, if they felt that it was against their moral values.

Not only is Bush increasing how much money he can spend that the nation dosen't have, he's also legislating his morality.

That affects everyone.

setting aside the economic havok his administration has wreaked upon my country, and setting aside the theocratic rule he is instituting, and setting aside the complete dismantling of the Constitution that he seems to be supporting, and setting aside the fact that he has totally abandoned the values that conservativism used to stand for...

Bush has made it impossible for me to speak with any of my classmates from Europe, since when they call Americans stupid i have no choice but to agree with them. over half of our country has shown itself to be irretrievably stupid, and i really can't blame the rest of the world for regarding us all as barbarians. i love my country, but i can't seem to find any way to rationally defend my countrymen.
its the medias fault-theyre utterly controlled by the GOP- those "stupid" people just arent hearing anything but rightwing lies

its the medias fault-theyre utterly controlled by the GOP- those "stupid" people just arent hearing anything but rightwing lies
i read the same newspapers, watch the same network TV (as i don't get cable), and have access to precisely the same information that those idiots do. i don't think they have any excuse whatsoever, and i am quite eager to watch them all start bawling when they realize the depth of the grave they have dug themselves.

That is absolutely right. The new deficit spending increase bill currently has a rider tacked on that would make it legal for hospitals, clinics and pharmicists to deny abortions, abortion counselling and birth control, if they felt that it was against their moral values.

makes me wonder why we aren't pushing to allow doctors and pharmacists to refuse to treat black people if they feel it is against their moral values. hell, why not allow pharmacists to deny to fill antidepressant prescriptions, if they don't think people should be going to see them durn head-shrinkers? why not give doctors the freedom to deny treatment to the poor, if the doctors hold the firm moral conviction that poor people are only poor through their own failures and irresponsibility? if moral conviction is to be our only standard for awarding medical treatment, then why stop with merely denying treatment to women? why not make it possible for ALL people to have their medical care taken away by a self-righteous pharmacist?

i read the same newspapers, watch the same network TV (as i don't get cable), and have access to precisely the same information that those idiots do. i don't think they have any excuse whatsoever, and i am quite eager to watch them all start bawling when they realize the depth of the grave they have dug themselves.
if anyone ever complains to me about all the unleashed corruption of the ravenous theives in power now Im gonna ask who they voted for and if it was for Bush im gonna say they deserve it--I only feel bad for people who voted to stop the madness

Now wait a minute. Hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies are privately run, no? Shouldn't they be allowed to refuse a non-emergency service to everyone equally, just as a store is allowed to refuse to stock a given brand? I mean... dude. Come on.

Vive la bourse!

Three friends of mine (who happen to be Iraqi Muslims - what a coincidence) had their place of business raided when they were arrested and detained for 4 days without charge because they had tickets to a Manchester United match. They were released, surprise surprise, without being charged after interrogation.

Someone else in my neighourhood went to Pakistan to learn about Islam and (according to him) after travelling to the Afghanistan/Pakistan border after getting lost he was found and arrested by US troops and detained in Guantanamo for 2 years. Without charge. He was released earlier this year (according to US intelligence he was "so clean he could have been working for them") and is now trying to sue the US government.

These here are examples of The "Terrorism" Act in action...or should I say terrorising the public.

its the medias fault-theyre utterly controlled by the GOP- those "stupid" people just arent hearing anything but rightwing lies
Lol irregardless of my personal beliefs I love this argument the underdog is always “the media is controlled by …” lol been hearing that garbage out of the repubs for years lol

its the medias fault-theyre utterly controlled by the GOP- those "stupid" people just arent hearing anything but rightwing liesToo simplistic an explanation. The media is ruled by the almighty dollar. Buisiness use it as a tool, they through large amounts of money at it to manipulate the public. The GOP also caters to Big Buisiness and their deep pockets, so it's really a case of one hand washing the other when BB pays for GOP propaganda that permeates our airwaves.

Don't get it wrong, the Dems also cater to Buisiness. Money drives politics. This year the energy industry was the winner.

Now wait a minute. Hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies are privately run, no? Shouldn't they be allowed to refuse a non-emergency service to everyone equally, just as a store is allowed to refuse to stock a given brand? I mean... dude. Come on.

Vive la bourse!
no one has the right to discriminate against anyone unjustly

It's not discrimination, buddy. That's-a my point. Just because white people are more likely to get skin cancer doesn't make it racist to not offer melanoma treatments.

Lol irregardless of my personal beliefs I love this argument the underdog is always “the media is controlled by …” lol been hearing that garbage out of the repubs for years lol
yeah but the republicans are also habitual liars. When others say it its true tho.

yeah but the republicans are also habitual liars. When others say it its true tho.
Lol wow

Hope you are joking


if not ... wow

I have had mostly good things happen since Bush has been in office, I am in the military and my paycheck has gotten a 4% raise each month, my friends and I get to go and make fun of the hippy liberals in Seattle, and well the only bad thing I can think of is the constant liberal bitching, crying and whining.

Too simplistic an explanation. The media is ruled by the almighty dollar. Buisiness use it as a tool, they through large amounts of money at it to manipulate the public. The GOP also caters to Big Buisiness and their deep pockets, so it's really a case of one hand washing the other when BB pays for GOP propaganda that permeates our airwaves.

Don't get it wrong, the Dems also cater to Buisiness. Money drives politics. This year the energy industry was the winner.
But if you look at all the talking heads and the chattering class on the lamestream media they are virulently biast in favor of republicans. The entire campaign the media did nothing but demonize and discredit Kerry based on bogus lies and outright distortions. They never put a GOP administration under a microscope the same way they do to dem ones like Clintons. Jon Stewart may be the lone exception along with Bill Maurer

It's not discrimination, buddy. That's-a my point. Just because white people are more likely to get skin cancer doesn't make it racist to not offer melanoma treatments.
no one has the right to with hold treatment either

no one has the right to discriminate against anyone unjustly
What about just discrimination?

Now wait a minute. Hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies are privately run, no? Shouldn't they be allowed to refuse a non-emergency service to everyone equally, just as a store is allowed to refuse to stock a given brand? I mean... dude. Come on.

Vive la bourse!

Even privately run hospitals and clinics receive funding from the government and accept government money. Even if they truly were independant would you still want them to be able to turn you away for legally prescribed medicines or treatments?

no one has the right to with hold treatment either
What, like legally, or just morally? What if you don't offer the treatment in the first place? Like if you have too many fancy monitors and scanners to keep an abortion clinic in house? (What am I saying? Abortion can be done anywhere! Just get a coat hanger... not those plastic types...)

Even privately run hospitals and clinics receive funding from the government and accept government money. Even if they truly were independant would you still want them to be able to turn you away for legally prescribed medicines or treatments?
Yes. Yes I would. Now would they turn me away? Of course not. Except for something as ethically iffy as abortion, doctors are more than happy to accept money in exchange for wellness.

What, like legally, or just morally? What if you don't offer the treatment in the first place? Like if you have too many fancy monitors and scanners to keep an abortion clinic in house? (What am I saying? Abortion can be done anywhere! Just get a coat hanger... not those plastic types...)
That gets into an adequate care sort of argument

Even privately run hospitals and clinics receive funding from the government and accept government money. Even if they truly were independant would you still want them to be able to turn you away for legally prescribed medicines or treatments?
Not to mention that the doctors and pharmacists took an oath when they recieved their diploma to treat everyone no matter what. If they have moral objection, they are REQUIRED to provide an alternative (by their deontology codes and, in some states, law). Now if they don't want to give you your prescription drug, they MUST tell you where you can get it.

As for Bush, he raised the price for my beef by shutting the Canada-US frontier to Canadian beef despite the FDA recommendation. He is also responsible for the higher cost in housing because the lumber is more costly because of his illegal tariff of 30% on Canadian Lumber.

And I'm not even a US citizen.

Yes. Yes I would. Now would they turn me away? Of course not. Except for something as ethically iffy as abortion, doctors are more than happy to accept money in exchange for wellness.


Just to clarify, it would be perfectly fine to you if every doctor, pharmacist, etc. had the right to with hold prescribed treatment just because of their personal moral values?

So what if you couldn't get a Viagra prescription filled because your pharmacist was a fundamental christain that believes sex should only be for procreation? Then let's say you got cancer and your doctor refused to treat you because he was a christian scientist and believed that sickness is God's will? How about your pregnant sister gets in a car crash and the ER doctor can only save her at the expense of the unborn baby and he ends up trying to save the baby because he personally feels abortion is wrong and they both die?

You see how many ways things can turn out if those people that literally hold your life in their hands act unaccountably?

Not to mention that the doctors and pharmacists took an oath when they recieved their diploma to treat everyone no matter what. If they have moral objection, they are REQUIRED to provide an alternative (by their deontology codes and, in some states, law). Now if they don't want to give you your prescription drug, they MUST tell you where you can get it.
You sure about that? And if so... why do you know US state law? ;) Anyhoo, I don't see anything wrong with the doc telling you where the nearest Baby Assassin** is, as long as he's allowed not to do the deed himself*.
* Or herself, I guess. We have chick doctors nowadays: it's so cool!
** Not to heat things up with life/choice rhetoric, but you have to admit that's a cool word. Baby Assassin.

You see how many ways things can turn out if those people that literally hold your life in their hands act unaccountably?
1) Viagra isn't exactly life-or-death, and I don't need or want it.
2) I don't have a sister.
3) The odds of those people wanting to be or becoming doctors is pretty much zero. So... I'm good.
Besides, as I said a few posts ago, I would limit discretion to non-emergency procedures.

I haven't really noticed any change. I feel roughly similar to how I felt during the Clinton years.

Since when does your "need" constitute a claim on someone else's money (i.e., taxes)? Go to a cheaper school. Or - here's a novel thought - get a JOB and PAY for your schooling, instead of demanding the government steal someone else's money to pay for YOUR schooling.

UAL is screwed because of their poor management, not because of some left wing-nut conspiracy theory.

Regarding your taxes bs, where would you be without government services? Lets see, you probably received an education in the public schools. So you made a claim on someone else's taxes, you hypocrite. Furthermore, I do have a job during the summer, and the earnings go toward textbooks and living expenses while I'm in school. I have no parental support. I support myself with the exception of tuition, which I could not afford without financial aid, and for the record, I go to a "cheap" public school where, due to funding cuts, tuition is rising.:upyours:

Where would you be without a government-financed road system? If you're in rural America, your economy would be squat without federal farm subsidies. The states that tend to vote in favor of evil commie pinko liberals also pay more in taxes than they receive back from the federal government. The inverse is true for the states that voted for Bush. So if you live in a "red" state, go away because I don't want to hear it about your poor pocketbook subsidizing my education. I'll probably end up subsidizing your social security.

Regarding UAL, yes the airline had crappy management before they kicked out the CEO that the employees referred to as "Osama bin Goodwin." As passenger traffic has risen since 9/11 United would be breaking even or making a small profit right now had it not been for rising petroleum prices, the cost of which cannot be recouped because the market will not bear higher prices for airfare.

My right to Privicy.

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.

Laying off many people I know who are good people, and others have bad paying jobs, part time, overtime pay is going down thanks to him. High health care, jobs overseas, I could go on.

He's affecting the whole world.

Now, would someone please assassinate him already? x_X

IF someone does a JFK number on the Shrub, Dick Cheyney will be President Of The United States. :mp5: The Puppet Master will be POTUS instead of the Puppet. How would that make it any better?

- The lowered dollar in the global market meaning that I have to pay even more for anything I import.[/B]
Actually the dollar is higher than it's ever been.
[/QUOTE]

Let me focus on this, no the dollar is lower than ever before, its funny how uninformed the avg. Repub. voter is. And it just lowered even more a couple of days ago.

IF someone does a JFK number on the Shrub, Dick Cheyney will be President Of The United States. :mp5: The Puppet Master will be POTUS instead of the Puppet. How would that make it any better?

Well, Cheney has all the charisma of a sowbug...with Shrub out of the way, we'd get a much clearer picture of the nasty thug who currently calls the shots anyway. Might even cost the elves the next, uhhh...'election'.

Now wait a minute. Hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies are privately run, no? Shouldn't they be allowed to refuse a non-emergency service to everyone equally, just as a store is allowed to refuse to stock a given brand? I mean... dude. Come on.

Vive la bourse!

Hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies can refuse non-emergency service to whomever they want if they do not receive government funding. However, the new law makes it so that they cannot fire those who do not serve their customers.

Suppose you had a restaraunt and you served everyone, but one of your servers wouldn't serve white people. Now suppose you were not allowed to fire him for it.

By helping me realize there are many in my Country who have what I consider to be very warped ideas about: war, the military, democracy, political campaigns, patriotism, treason, the US, life, death, and many others.

its getting hard to find a job........

Hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies can refuse non-emergency service to whomever they want if they do not receive government funding. However, the new law makes it so that they cannot fire those who do not serve their customers.

Suppose you had a restaraunt and you served everyone, but one of your servers wouldn't serve white people. Now suppose you were not allowed to fire him for it.
Ohhh. That the case is? Well, heck, abortion or no, that just ain't right. Meddling in a private enterprise's affairs is supposed to be your job! ;) Thanks for clarifying the law. Now I hate Bush more than ever. :headbang:

I've never heard of this 8ush fellow before...

Hospitals, clinics, and pharmacies can refuse non-emergency service to whomever they want if they do not receive government funding. However, the new law makes it so that they cannot fire those who do not serve their customers.

Suppose you had a restaraunt and you served everyone, but one of your servers wouldn't serve white people. Now suppose you were not allowed to fire him for it.
That is plainly rediculous. Anti-abortionists are crowing about religious freedom, but the fact remains employees are refusing to perform the job which they were hired for, and are now protected from being fired because of "religious sensibilities".

If your religion prevents you from doing a job, quit. Or be fired. Doesn't matter.

My right to Privicy.

Bullshit. How?

That is plainly rediculous. Anti-abortionists are crowing about religious freedom, but the fact remains employees are refusing to perform the job which they were hired for, and are now protected from being fired because of "religious sensibilities".

If your religion prevents you from doing a job, quit. Or be fired. Doesn't matter.

Which is exactly what I said. =)

Bullshit. How?

It is now illegal to refuse to give your name to a cop, even if he has no reason whatsoever to ask for it.

It is now legal for the FBI, etc. to go through your library records, phone calls, etc. without any type of cause or warrant.

There's two.

setting aside the economic havok his administration has wreaked upon my country, and setting aside the theocratic rule he is instituting, and setting aside the complete dismantling of the Constitution that he seems to be supporting, and setting aside the fact that he has totally abandoned the values that conservativism used to stand for...

Bush has made it impossible for me to speak with any of my classmates from Europe, since when they call Americans stupid i have no choice but to agree with them. over half of our country has shown itself to be irretrievably stupid, and i really can't blame the rest of the world for regarding us all as barbarians. i love my country, but i can't seem to find any way to rationally defend my countrymen.

Oh yes ... those of us who don't agree with you are so stupid. We should be purged, beaten with a cat-o-nine-tails, placed on the rack, drawn and quarterd, disembowled ... or worse yet, have to listen to old John Kerry ads full of unadulterated bullshit, lies, innuendo, and whining.

It is now legal for the FBI, etc. to go through your library records, phone calls, etc. without any type of cause or warrant.

It's been that way since the '80s at least, drug policy gave the government that power.

It is now illegal to refuse to give your name to a cop, even if he has no reason whatsoever to ask for it.

It is now legal for the FBI, etc. to go through your library records, phone calls, etc. without any type of cause or warrant.

There's two.

And, even supposing what you say is true ( I have yet to research this subject thoroughly ), how is that a problem for you? If you've done nothing illegal, that is.

It's been that way since the '80s

Wrong. It was not legal before the patriot act.

It is now illegal to refuse to give your name to a cop, even if he has no reason whatsoever to ask for it.
Well, it's not like you have to give him your real name. :D

And, even supposing what you say is true ( I have yet to research this subject thoroughly ), how is that a problem for you? If you've done nothing illegal, that is.

It doesn't matter if you haven't done anything illegal. If I, for instance, am doing a report on Hitler and check out Mein Kamf (sp?), Rise and Fall of the 3rd Reich, etc. - I can be held without being charged for as long as they want because they can claim that I just might be a terrorist.

And, even supposing what you say is true ( I have yet to research this subject thoroughly ), how is that a problem for you? If you've done nothing illegal, that is.

Some of us just happen to have this belief that the federal government has no business finding out whether we read Michael Moore or Sean Hannity (oh, the government's ability to view library records extends to bookstore purchases too, btw). Of course these beliefs might be a little "quaint," like the Geneva Conventions.

If the government insists on giving itself the authority to find out what we read without probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion, the citizens of this country should have the reciprocal right to audit the actions of the government. This right, while it theoretically exists under FOIA and state sunshine laws, has been fought tooth and nail by the Bush administration, cf. the government's refusal to disclosed who met with Dick Cheney when he was formulating this country's future energy policy, the government's refusal to name those it has detained indefinitely, etc. Not to mention that we should have the right to audit how the government uses its power to search our library records. So far we are only left with vague assertions from the DoJ that "we don't need to worry about it."

Some of us just happen to have this belief that the federal government has no business finding out whether we read Michael Moore or Sean Hannity (oh, the government's ability to view library records extends to bookstore purchases too, btw). Of course these beliefs might be a little "quaint," like the Geneva Conventions.

If the government insists on giving itself the authority to find out what we read without probable cause, or even reasonable suspicion, the citizens of this country should have the reciprocal right to audit the actions of the government. This right, while it theoretically exists under FOIA and state sunshine laws, has been fought tooth and nail by the Bush administration, cf. the government's refusal to disclosed who met with Dick Cheney when he was formulating this country's future energy policy, the government's refusal to name those it has detained indefinitely, etc. Not to mention that we should have the right to audit how the government uses its power to search our library records. So far we are only left with vague assertions from the DoJ that "we don't need to worry about it."

What I really find amazing is the fact that the same exact people who yell "No one can keep me from having an automatic assault rocket launcher because the government might come for me one day!!" (yes, I know there's no such thing) also say "Who cares about the Patriot Act if you ain't done nothin' wrong?"

Well, it's not like you have to give him your real name. :D

They tend to ask for id.

I had a pair show up on my doorstep for some reason asking questions about me and who lived here, etc., and would not explain their reasons.

I told them to take a hike unless they have got a warrent.

What I really find amazing is the fact that the same exact people who yell "No one can keep me from having an automatic assault rocket launcher because the government might come for me one day!!" (yes, I know there's no such thing) also say "Who cares about the Patriot Act if you ain't done nothin' wrong?"
Well, I guess the theory is that if the government does try to take you as a political prisoner, you can use your AKs and RPGs to repel them. So it's all good.

Then again, the TERROR!-ists could use those same weapons. So... the Patriot Act doesn't really help.

I was considering the amount of Bush bashing that goes on in here, and through all of the arguements I don't find anything that is a cause & effect on any of you personally... well maybe those gas prices, but America doesn't control the costs of oversea oil.
i used the first bush tax cut check to pay for my septic tank
i dint get a second check

He makes me feel oppressed as he tells the world how he "disagree's" (Don't ask me how) with my sexuality, makes me dislike America and hate it's politics, he makes my friends live in fear that catching a plane will kill them. He makes trying feel pointless when some dick with no brains can buy his way into office when people who study and work hard are left to watch him play with the world as if it were a game.

Thanks to George Bush, I've had to buy several antiaircraft guns to chase away all those red-white-and-blue helicopters mandated by the Patriot Act trying to surprise me in the middle of the night.

You sure about that? And if so... why do you know US state law? ;) Anyhoo, I don't see anything wrong with the doc telling you where the nearest Baby Assassin** is, as long as he's allowed not to do the deed himself*.
* Or herself, I guess. We have chick doctors nowadays: it's so cool!
** Not to heat things up with life/choice rhetoric, but you have to admit that's a cool word. Baby Assassin.
I'm sure about that. I did quite a bit of research on the subject before jumping into various debates about it.

Now, the nearest "baby assassin" can be in the next city. I'm not that keen on wasting an hour and half a tank of gas just because some people cannot do their job properly. Also, there's many reasons other than birth control to take the pill. Who's to say why a woman takes the pill. Unless the pharmacist asks the purpose of the medication, he's got no reasons to deny treatment.

It is now illegal to refuse to give your name to a cop, even if he has no reason whatsoever to ask for it.

It is now legal for the FBI, etc. to go through your library records, phone calls, etc. without any type of cause or warrant.

There's two.


And, even supposing what you say is true ( I have yet to research this subject thoroughly ), how is that a problem for you? If you've done nothing illegal, that is.

Because I don't have to have done anything illegal, the FBI agent can go through my stuff anyway. And then tell her sister, who I happen to be balling, that I phoned another cell number 6 times yesterday. And also tell her cousin who is the HR manager of the firm I applied to for a job last week that I regularly read books about employment law and employee rights.

You're naive to believe that the US GOV hasn't been keeping tabs on
Americans by illegally going through mail & email, or tapping phones.
I don't approve of anyone going through my stuff. I don't care that
they are trying to hunt down criminals - I'm thinking what's next;
legal rights to enter your home and conduct searches whenever
they want.

You scream about tax breaks for the wealthy, but middle class isn't
rich - the middle class is the majority of people in America. My parents
were middle class citizens; they both worked to provide for their children,
we didn't live in a nice house - I lived in apartments until I was 10, we
never lived in luxury, nobody bought my first car, but you're yelling that
George W gave people like them a tax break. You're brainwashed.

The only substantial arguement would be the ban on gay marriages,
but that was done through a democratic vote. America said "no", we
don't like your sickening lifestyle. Go ahead and point the finger at
the President - ignore the socialism around you and you'll change
nothing.

This country isn't Nazi Germany, we all decide who governs this country.
You look at the President for all of the blame, but you forget that the
real power comes from the Senate. Blame your Senators for voting for
stupid laws - those ideas go through them first. Blame your State officials
for the local taxes, poor education, and loss of jobs. The President is just
the scapegoat for the real offenders.