NationStates Jolt Archive

Police in Chile have arrested between 300 and 500 people following protests ahead of an economic forum which will be attended by President Bush. Police fired water cannons and tear gas at the demonstrators who had set up barricades in the streets. The demonstrations were seen as much as a protest against President Bush as against this week's Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum in Santiago. Protesters in the street could be heard shouting, "Get out of here, Bush. We don't want, we don't want to be an American colony."
democracynow.org

Um, that's not what "causing" a riot means, silly buns. Now if he and his Secret Service buddies were punching civilians and looting stores, then he might have caused a riot. But until that happens... :rolleyes:

Bush serves the Beast-hes the most hated terrorist in the world today. Wherever he goes death and destruction follow in his wake.

You amuse me. I like that.

But the death and destruction, in this case, were caused by ill-tempered socialists and the Chilean government. Bush or no, they'd find a reason to fight.

yeah, Bush may have been the reason these people rioted, but he didn't cause it. The rioters caused the riot.

This article lacks coherence.
Bush is a "divisive pig" because he's going to Chile for an economic summit. Suddenly the Chilean masses believe they are going to become an American colony.

What the hell?

Bush is CAUSING riots in Chile?!? Last time I checked, he was pulling one of his bodyguards away from Chilean police that refused the bodyguard entrance to a dinner meeting that Bush is taking part in. That doesn't sound like someone who is trying to start riots.

You amuse me. I like that.

But the death and destruction, in this case, were caused by ill-tempered socialists and the Chilean government. Bush or no, they'd find a reason to fight.
they know Bush is there to economically rape them the same way hes murdering Iraqis for corporate greed

yeah, Bush may have been the reason these people rioted, but he didn't cause it. The rioters caused the riot.
its a natural reaction--the entire world must respond this way when the Beast enters their country just like animals would start foaming at the mouth when they sense evil in their midst

This article lacks coherence.
Bush is a "divisive pig" because he's going to Chile for an economic summit. Suddenly the Chilean masses believe they are going to become an American colony.

What the hell?
economic summits are gatherings of the worlds parasite class where they plan on how best to econimically enslave and suck the blood of the worlds people and murder union organizers and nuns

they know Bush is there to economically rape them the same way hes murdering Iraqis for corporate greedWhat the fuck does Chile have that we don't? Nothing.

Bush is CAUSING riots in Chile?!? Last time I checked, he was pulling one of his bodyguards away from Chilean police that refused the bodyguard entrance to a dinner meeting that Bush is taking part in. That doesn't sound like someone who is trying to start riots.
none of this wouldnt be happening if the entire world didnt hate Bush.he has zero credability at home or abroad. hes a walking atrocity.

What the fuck does Chile have that we don't? Nothing.
The Andes mountains!

What the fuck does Chile have that we don't? Nothing.
slave labor

slave laborWe already have China, Korea, Mexico, Indonesia, Veit nam, Thailand, Burma, Singapora, Taiwan, Belize, Haiti, Madagascar, Columbia, and Africa for that.

We already have China, Korea, Mexico, Indonesia, Veit nam, Thailand, Burma, Singapora, Taiwan, Belize, Haiti, Madagascar, Columbia, and Africa for that.
neo cons want to control the WHOLE world just like their nazi ancestors before them

neo cons want to control the WHOLE world just like their nazi ancestors before them
When Bush opens death camps and arrests me for disagreeing with him I'll call him a nazi. But I haven't seen any of these things.

You sound like that angsty middle aged woman who said that she saw jack-booted thugs on the streets of columbus.

neo cons want to control the WHOLE world just like their nazi ancestors before themWho doesn't want to control the whole world like our nazi ancestors?

neo cons want to control the WHOLE world just like their nazi ancestors before them
Oh yeah, let's think about this statement for a moment as well. Did you know that Wolfowitz and Perl are both Jewish? Yes, I'm getting life of Brian vibes from this one. The Nazi-Jewish Suicide Squad.

My country is a colony of America too........

My country is a colony of America too........
which one might that be? I need to keep you on my administrative records.

When Bush opens death camps and arrests me for disagreeing with him I'll call him a nazi. But I haven't seen any of these things.

You sound like that angsty middle aged woman who said that she saw jack-booted thugs on the streets of columbus.
the camps are being set-up and Im sure that angsty middle aged woman saw exactly what she said she did--Columbus is where they have the school of Assassins

neo cons want to control the WHOLE world just like their nazi ancestors before them

the objective is to rule the world. not to rule it in the same way as the nazi did.... I'm sure that was what mkultra meant. not the "let's kill all jews"-approach....

try reading it with a pause between "world" and "just"... I'll help you

neo cons want to control the WHOLE world. just like their nazi ancestors before them.

At least i think that's better.... English is not my first language :)

MKULTRA, you are blind - it's an economic summit; like any other one there are gonna be protests!!!

*this post brought to you from a person who is highly critical of Bush*

the camps are being set-up

Damn, how did he find out?

*quickly jumps aboard his black helicopter and flys off*

The little military and sofware company outpost of Ireland

I have friends in government and they assure me that there are no camps being set up.

I have friends in government and they assure me that there are no camps being set up.
That's just what they want us to think . . . :rolleyes:

France wants to rule the world too.

France wants to rule the world too.

thats got ot be the biggest load of BS i've ever heard, HAH, FRANCE WANTING TO RULE THE WORLD, THATS CRAZIER THAN KERRY CHOOSING EDWARDS FOR VP! France can even win a war by themselves, honestly! Besides they dont want to rule the world, they want to be the poeple who manipulate the people who rule the world, that would be much more like those sneaky french b*stards!

garrett the wise

the camps are being set-up and Im sure that angsty middle aged woman saw exactly what she said she did--Columbus is where they have the school of Assassins
where are the camps being set up. Give me evidence.

And wtf is the school of assassins. I've never heard of it, and I live in Columbus.

You have given reasons why they couldn't rule the world not why they don't want to rule the world. and the really want to. Thats what the EU is all about and the new EU army they plan to make. France wants to rule the world thats why they opposed Iraq. They don't want to see America with oil thats a threat to France's plans!

-snip-
All welcome the NWO of cheese-eating surrender monkeys!

the objective is to rule the world. not to rule it in the same way as the nazi did.... I'm sure that was what mkultra meant. not the "let's kill all jews"-approach....

try reading it with a pause between "world" and "just"... I'll help you

neo cons want to control the WHOLE world. just like their nazi ancestors before them.

At least i think that's better.... English is not my first language :)
thats exactly how I meant it and I also brought up nazis because it was an added reference to Bush family history

where are the camps being set up. Give me evidence.

And wtf is the school of assassins. I've never heard of it, and I live in Columbus.
I think the camps are being set up in Oklahoma and the school of assassins is at Fort Benning

I think the camps are being set up in Oklahoma and the school of assassins is at Fort Benning
we're clearly thinking of different Columbuses. I'm at the one in Ohio. Where in OK, because it's a big state.

I think the camps are being set up in Oklahoma and the school of assassins is at Fort Benning


Where in Oklahoma, I live 20 minutes from the Oklahoma border........

*passes out the aluminum foil hats*

*passes out the aluminum foil hats*
Hm... if you got a bunch of conspiracy nuts in the same room, would the arcing mind control waves be a fire hazard? Like a fork in the microwave oven, writ large.

yeah, Bush may have been the reason these people rioted, but he didn't cause it. The rioters caused the riot.

Please, I beg you, stop the double speak.
********************

Reason: A thought or a consideration offered in support of a determination or an opinion; a just ground for a conclusion or an action; that which is offered or accepted as an explanation; the efficient cause of an occurrence or a phenomenon; a motive for an action or a determination; proof, more or less decisive, for an opinion or a conclusion; principle; efficient cause; final cause; ground of argument.

Cause: That which is the occasion of an action or state; ground; reason; motive

********************
The rioters perpetrated the riot. The reason = the cause. Now feel free to argue whether or not Bush's visit was a just or rational cause for the rioters to act as they did. But please quit murdering the English language by using logically and linguistically false "a" does not equal "a" arguements.

Hm... if you got a bunch of conspiracy nuts in the same room, would the arcing mind control waves be a fire hazard? Like a fork in the microwave oven, writ large.
most definitely

Hm... if you got a bunch of conspiracy nuts in the same room, would the arcing mind control waves be a fire hazard? Like a fork in the microwave oven, writ large.

How many socialist conspiracy theorists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Please, I beg you, stop the double speak.
********************

Reason: A thought or a consideration offered in support of a determination or an opinion; a just ground for a conclusion or an action; that which is offered or accepted as an explanation; the efficient cause of an occurrence or a phenomenon; a motive for an action or a determination; proof, more or less decisive, for an opinion or a conclusion; principle; efficient cause; final cause; ground of argument.

Cause: That which is the occasion of an action or state; ground; reason; motive

********************
The rioters perpetrated the riot. The reason = the cause. Now feel free to argue whether or not Bush's visit was a just or rational cause for the rioters to act as they did. But please quit murdering the English language by using logically and linguistically false "a" does not equal "a" arguements.
you sound really smart--are you a professor by any chance?

MKU, any relative locations in OK for your purported camps?

And you don't want to die, you're a useful fellow.

Police in Chile have arrested between 300 and 500 people following protests ahead of an economic forum which will be attended by President Bush. Police fired water cannons and tear gas at the demonstrators who had set up barricades in the streets. The demonstrations were seen as much as a protest against President Bush as against this week's Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum in Santiago. Protesters in the street could be heard shouting, "Get out of here, Bush. We don't want, we don't want to be an American colony."
democracynow.org

So how exactly did he cause a riot?

MKU, any relative locations in OK for your purported camps?

And you don't want to die, you're a useful fellow.
yeagh I posted a story a few days? ago about Bush opening up a concentration camp--I just gotta find it. I dont know why I said that lol. I feel periods of extreme extsasy but the downside is very down for me and I feel like someone drove a spike thru my forehead

Bush is to Nazi as MKULTRA is to Intelligence.

they know Bush is there to economically rape them the same way hes murdering Iraqis for corporate greed

And then the CIA jackals and economic hit men would come in!

Ohhh! Ohhh! Tell us another story Mr. MKULTRA!

From Das Rocket:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utonium
Hm... if you got a bunch of conspiracy nuts in the same room, would the arcing mind control waves be a fire hazard? Like a fork in the microwave oven, writ large.



How many socialist conspiracy theorists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
[end quote]

I think in this case it would be "How many socialist conspiracy theorists does it take to light up a lightbuld :D

they know Bush is there to economically rape them the same way hes murdering Iraqis for corporate greed

you are aware the Chile voluntarily (even cheerfully) joined NAFTA during the Clinton Administration right?

Don't you hate it when irritating facts discredit a idealogical argument.

they know Bush is there to economically rape them the same way hes murdering Iraqis for corporate greed

Your continued refusal to take my advice leads me to believe that you don't really want to be taken seriously.

where are the camps being set up. Give me evidence.

And wtf is the school of assassins. I've never heard of it, and I live in Columbus.
the concentration camps are at this location:

Link shows the document pertaining to civilian labor camps, the link at the bottom is to a site that shows the locations for up to 800 camps already set up and running.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/concentration

So how exactly did he cause a riot?
with his presence

And then the CIA jackals and economic hit men would come in!

Ohhh! Ohhh! Tell us another story Mr. MKULTRA!
now your seeing the big picture. As Americans we must loudly declare NOT IN OUR NAME

you are aware the Chile voluntarily (even cheerfully) joined NAFTA during the Clinton Administration right?

Don't you hate it when irritating facts discredit a idealogical argument.
Clinton served the NWO too

Your continued refusal to take my advice leads me to believe that you don't really want to be taken seriously.
I cant even begin to understand how I could even be able to take your advice. I can only speak in the context of what my perception allows.

now your seeing the big picture. As Americans we must loudly declare NOT IN OUR NAME
Wow, you wouldn't know irony if it raped you in every hole and left you bleeding in a ditch, would you?

In Venezuela, a state prosecutor named Danilo Anderson was assassinated Thursday shortly before he was scheduled to bring charges against 400 people who attempted to overthrow President Hugo Chavez two years ago. The Chavez government has said the car bombing of Anderson was likely carried out by Venezuelan exiles living in Florida. The exiles have openly discussed their intent to overthrow Chavez's government. Last month, Orlando Urdaneta went on a Miami tv station to say he wanted to see Chavez killed by "Men with rifles and telescopic sights who do not miss."
democracynow.org

The New York Times reports another part of the massive spending bill will result in nearly 100,000 college students losing all of their federal grants to go to school. Another million students could lose some of their federal grant funding according to statistics by the American Council on Education.
nytimes.com

in Columbus Georgia, a record 16,000 demonstrators protested this weekend outside the School of the Americas at Fort Benning. Police reported making 20 arrests. The protesters called on the government to shut down the school which has a notorious record of training Latin American military officers who went on to commit gross human rights abuses.
democracynow.org

That's evil.

Not that it really matters, anyways, because he's the anti-christ and soon the Apocalypse will occur and it'll be the end of the world, so what's the point of an education?

Good., maybe now they can go protest some Mosques in the middle east and make some real progress.

Don't you actually have to HAVE something before it can be 'stolen' from you?

No--Bush and his neocon corporate facist cronies also practice preemptive stealing

No--Bush and his neocon corporate facist cronies also practice preemptive stealing
No such thing

No such thing
Regardless, we all know that the Bush administration has problems with spending. If a father of a family goes and spends their income on drugs and booze, rather than using it to support the family, it may not be direct theft, but it's still not right.

that makes no sense. they support the movement of factory jobs out of the nation because they want the us to be a educated, higher tech, nation. yet how are you suposed to get a skilled job that requires higher education if you can't afford to go to school?

There are endless legitimate complaints about President Bush, but a cut in spending is not one of them.

Regardless, we all know that the Bush administration has problems with spending. If a father of a family goes and spends their income on drugs and booze, rather than using it to support the family, it may not be direct theft, but it's still not right.
Doesn’t make it right no

Doesn’t make it stealing either lol (but I am sure that term was chosen for emotional connotation rather then truth)

Regardless, we all know that the Bush administration has problems with spending. If a father of a family goes and spends their income on drugs and booze, rather than using it to support the family, it may not be direct theft, but it's still not right.

You're comparison is not valid. Bush is not my father, and he's not yours. Parents have a moral obligation to feed their kids, but governments can't possibly have that obligation because they lack the means to fullfill it. All they can do is take money from some and give it to others. Parents generally produce wealth while governments do not.

Yay another democracy now post from guess who

Yo MKULTRA why don’t you just set up a bot to auto post all new stories from there … its all you manage to do anyways

You're comparison is not valid. Bush is not my father, and he's not yours. Parents have a moral obligation to feed their kids, but governments can't possibly have that obligation because they lack the means to fullfill it. All they can do is take money from some and give it to others. Parents generally produce wealth while governments do not.

The government doesn't have an obligation to support its citizens? What the hell is it for, then? Clue me in here, please.

My argument is accurate because the Bush administration, like the metaphorical father, spent money on things that were not in the best interest of the country/family; people pay taxes for things like educational funding, health care, etc.; not to pay for the death of thousands of "terrorists" across the world, nor for a missile defense plan that doesn't work.

The government doesn't have an obligation to support its citizens? What the hell is it for, then? Clue me in here, please.

My argument is accurate because the Bush administration, like the metaphorical father, spent money on things that were not in the best interest of the country/family; people pay taxes for things like educational funding, health care, etc.; not to pay for the death of thousands of "terrorists" across the world, nor for a missile defense plan that doesn't work.
There is support then there is SUPPORT

The government should support its population but the population is not financially dependent as it is with a minor child

Carry your parent analogy past the age of minority into majority … after 18 … have fun and live your own life

There is support then there is SUPPORT

The government should support its population but the population is not financially dependent as it is with a minor child

Carry your parent analogy past the age of minority into majority … after 18 … have fun and live your own life
I think the 100,000, and possibly more, students will have a bit of trouble trying to 'have fun and live their own lives' because of this. Are they not likened to a minor child, financially dependant on the father figure?

4 threads in the first two pages all just copying and pasting articles from democracynow.org is more than a bit excessive. Therefore, I've merged them.

4 threads in the first two pages all just copying and pasting articles from democracynow.org is more than a bit excessive. Therefore, I've merged them.
Go Myrth!

the concentration camps are at this location:

Link shows the document pertaining to civilian labor camps, the link at the bottom is to a site that shows the locations for up to 800 camps already set up and running.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/concentration
after paying a visit to the site and clicking links and firing up the ol' Google, I found the claims made to be half truths of the worst variety.

The link sent me to a page which listed a number of executive orders. As such, I read the page's description of the exec. orders, then typed them into Google. I read the executive orders, and found that the vast bulk of them were Kennedy Era preparations for a nuclear war with the USSR in which the US infrastructure would be devastated.

All of this MKULTRA in one place, it is almost too much! It has got to be some kind of health hazard, and could cause a meltdown of some sort.
It is, in fact, too much, especially the Assassins training school in Georgia, I suppose they are equipped with accents of deadly force?
Perhaps peach combat skills?
Maybe teach them the power of the grits?

I can see the T-Shirts now:
"I got my learnin' at MKULTRA's School of A-sas-in-ation'"

I dont want all my threads to be assigned to a ghetto--people will get mixed messages :mad:

I dont want all my threads to be assigned to a ghetto--people will get mixed messages :mad:
You've been assigned to a "conentration thread"

Cambada
The government doesn't have an obligation to support its citizens? What the hell is it for, then? Clue me in here, please.

My argument is accurate because the Bush administration, like the metaphorical father, spent money on things that were not in the best interest of the country/family; people pay taxes for things like educational funding, health care, etc.; not to pay for the death of thousands of "terrorists" across the world, nor for a missile defense plan that doesn't work.
There is support then there is SUPPORT

The government should support its population but the population is not financially dependent as it is with a minor child

Carry your parent analogy past the age of minority into majority … after 18 … have fun and live your own life

A government things like education and healthcare is not an undue form of support - it is giving people the basis on which to support themselves. Without good health someone cannot work. Without decent eductation, finding a work enviornment that pays a livable wage is exceedingly difficult. Increasing the economic viability of its own citizens is not a waste of government funding. It returns capital back to the nation in the form of increased productivity and increased ability to pay taxes in additon to having other benefits that are associated with decent education and the ability to make a decent living such as lower crime which in turn further benefit the society.

You've been assigned to a "conentration thread"
LOL I know--but with all my posts consigned to one thread it makes it sound like Im posssed by demons

hey, being possessed by demons is a whole hell of a lot better than being possessed by neo-conservative kittens.

hehehehehe hahahahahahahahahaha *ROFLMAO*

You make me laugh so much, MKULTRA! Thank You. :p

hey, being possessed by demons is a whole hell of a lot better than being possessed by neo-conservative kittens.
true--at least demons have colorful language skills

hehehehehe hahahahahahahahahaha *ROFLMAO*

You make me laugh so much, MKULTRA! Thank You. :p
America is falling and all you can do is laugh about it :(

It is, in fact, too much, especially the Assassins training school in Georgia, I suppose they are equipped with accents of deadly force?
Perhaps peach combat skills?
Maybe teach them the power of the grits?

well, to strike a blow against humor, it's more like "so you want to run a latin american deathsquad 101" and "deathsquading 315: the use of torture for fun and profit"

super free soviets, away!

true--at least demons have colorful language skills
Cause the term neo-con was so creative


I like donks better

Cause the term neo-con was so creative


I like donks better

I like the term i coined earlier for republicans- 'elves', or 'elfs'. Makes as much sense as 'donks'.

I like the term i coined earlier for republicans- 'elves', or 'elfs'. Makes as much sense as 'donks'.
but elfs arent evil

I like the term i coined earlier for republicans- 'elves', or 'elfs'. Makes as much sense as 'donks'.
Yeah but I always think of faerie creatures … which I don’t think is the image you are trying to conjure up with a nickname (small fast smart wise creatures that seem to know just the right path to follow) not exactly the image I would want to conjure for a nick like that (specially opposing something like donk)

after paying a visit to the site and clicking links and firing up the ol' Google, I found the claims made to be half truths of the worst variety.

The link sent me to a page which listed a number of executive orders. As such, I read the page's description of the exec. orders, then typed them into Google. I read the executive orders, and found that the vast bulk of them were Kennedy Era preparations for a nuclear war with the USSR in which the US infrastructure would be devastated.

Shhh dont hit him with facts. Those are bad to Mku. He doesnt know what those are. Although its funny because not to long ago I saw an old black and white film on how if a nuclear attack were to happen on the US how things would happen. Apparently folks who volunteered got these niffty little civil defense manuals which explained to them standard opporating procedures for setting up field hospitals, tending to the wounded, burned, and how to generally handle the crisis medically..of course we all know that these forced civilan doctors are really the fault of Time Traveling Bush. Who went back into the past to enslave the future...or some such nonsense.

Mku, this is directed to you...enough with the Democracynow.org crap. The first post reaks of anti-Bush bias bullshit. These kinds of riots have been stretching back as far back as the Battle of Seattle back in '96. Far before Bush was in office. Back then it was just anti-globalization...right half of those rioters dont know what globalization even is. Always funny to stop someone on the street wearing a Che shirt, ask them who it is and watch as they stare you dumbfounded....

What your opinion posting doesnt mention however was that there was a seperate peaceful rally. Which didnt turn out into a riot...so can you explain that? Looks like you cant pin Bush as being the boogieman again.

These kinds of riots have been stretching back as far back as the Battle of Seattle back in '96.

seattle was 99 (5 year anniversary next week). before that there wasn't much in the us (except for a couple of smaller anarchist actions that only got local noteriety - and some hefty jail time for a few people), but there was stuff elsewhere in the world.

Mega-Millionaire Offers $100,000
Reward For Scientific Proof
WTC Towers Collapsed As
Bush Administration Claims

CNN Poll 11-10-04: 90% Believe US Complicity In 911 Attacks

$100,000 REWARD to the first person to deliver a full mathematical, engineering proof of how the impact and/or fires caused any of the WTC buildings to collapse the way the government claims! It must include all the fuel, mass, critical temperatures, likely temperatures and their causes, energy needed to crush concrete into fine powder, force needed to sheer bolts and rivets, time calculations, and all the other relevant data in a detailed analysis to be reviewed by accredited engineers on a team headed by Jeff King http://911review.org/Wiki/King,Jeff.shtml, engineer and doctor educated at MIT.

$10,000 FIRST PRIZE for engineering students who can best prove how the buildings collapsed.

Ten $1,000 prize for runner-ups. For application: http://www.reopen911.org

~ DEADLINE: JUNE 30, 2005 ~

Passionately committed to democracy, multi-millionaire Jimmy Walter, a Democratic philanthropist, announced that he would spend an extra million dollars on advertising in addition to the $1,500,000 already spent on another advertising blitz in America's most prominent newspapers and magazines. This time the full-page ads will specifically target the New York market: New York Times, New York Daily News, Wall Street Journal, New Yorker, The Howard Stern show etc. The theme of the new ads based upon a Zogby Poll is BOLD AND DECISIVE: 66% of New Yorkers want 9/11 reopened. 49% believe some US leaders knew in advance and "they consciously failed to act."

rense.com

Now there is a save investment if I have ever seen one.

Now there is a save investment if I have ever seen one.
:D :D :D

I am pretty sure that we presume innocence in this country. The burden of proof falls on those who say that it was a conspiracy.

The burden of proof falls on those who say that it was a conspiracy.
The burden of proof falls onto the warmongers who still can't find the WMD's.

The burden of proof falls onto the warmongers who still can't find the WMD's.

Now that is completely off topic and uncalled-for flamebaiting.

Now that is completely off topic and uncalled-for flamebaiting.
EDIT: My mistake. I was posting on 4 forums at once. Got the things mixed up. Sorry.

While the attacks certainly caused outrage in the US populace (and the world), the same could have been achieved by, for example, attacking a school - plenty of outrage, no risk of economic damage.

This is one reason I doubt the conspiracy theories. Not the only reason, but the others are obvious.

does this come with the tinfoil hat already? or do i have to supply my own?

... and Kent Hovind has a $250,000 prize to whoever can "prove" evolution.
He also thinks evolution invovles the origin of the universe and the origin of life.
He also has no idea how science works and is as intellectually dishonest as any creationist. Not to mention his diploma mill degree in "Christian Education." Why should I take this "contest" more seriously?

While the attacks certainly caused outrage in the US populace (and the world), the same could have been achieved by, for example, attacking a school - plenty of outrage, no risk of economic damage.

This is one reason I doubt the conspiracy theories. Not the only reason, but the others are obvious.
The outrage wouldn't have been to the same extend. He's still using it.

but elfs arent evil
You say that now, but just wait until you've been hired as a mall santa and that damned midget in a green suit kicks you in the balls for no fucking reason.
We hate the elveseseses!
We hates them, Precious, we hateses them!!!

I don't for a second think Bush had any hand in perpetrating the attacks.

However:

There is some evidence that Roosevelt let Pearl Harbor happen to draw America into WW2.

The extremely poor response to 9/11 and the need for another Pearl Harbor referred to in the PNAC report written by Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld are some evidence for a concerted ignorance of the attacks.

Of course he knew about it. Someone flew a plane into the Pentagon and two more into the WTC. Even Bush couldn't miss that.

How much he knew or should have known in advance is another matter - but that doesn't appear to be what you've asked.

I am pretty sure that we presume innocence in this country. The burden of proof falls on those who say that it was a conspiracy.
conspiracy theories are always more logical then the establishments spin--so the truth is biast towards conspiracy not govt hacks and our CIA controlled media

Of course he knew about it. Someone flew a plane into the Pentagon and two more into the WTC.
He probably was inpired by the first episode of the shortlived X-files spinoff The Lone Gunmen.
Even Bush couldn't miss that.
Don't give him to much credit.

Hey MKULTRA, this is supposed to be in your copy-and-paste thread!

Mods, please come and move this! :D

well, to strike a blow against humor, it's more like "so you want to run a latin american deathsquad 101" and "deathsquading 315: the use of torture for fun and profit"

super free soviets, away!
I was refering more to the location, the south and all that, but whatever floats your boat.

Now that is completely off topic and uncalled-for flamebaiting.
its not flame baiting its an inflammatory opinion

While i have no proof that bush did anything to cause 9-11, there is a large amount of proof stacked against what we have been told about 9-11 to just accept what we have been told.

Theres a flash video somwhere that highlights some good points.

While the attacks certainly caused outrage in the US populace (and the world), the same could have been achieved by, for example, attacking a school - plenty of outrage, no risk of economic damage.

This is one reason I doubt the conspiracy theories. Not the only reason, but the others are obvious.
I dont agree with the govts version either

its not flame baiting its an inflammatory opinion
No. It was a mistake of mine.

conspiracy theories are always more logical then the establishments spin

What about David Icke?

with his presence
COOL, so you're saying George Bush is just like The Who (http://www.towsertrades.com/1979-12-03-WhoStampede.htm)

What about David Icke?
What about him? He seems fairly accurate and balanced.

I don't for a second think Bush had any hand in perpetrating the attacks.

However:

There is some evidence that Roosevelt let Pearl Harbor happen to draw America into WW2.

The extremely poor response to 9/11 and the need for another Pearl Harbor referred to in the PNAC report written by Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld are some evidence for a concerted ignorance of the attacks.
thats what I meant--911 was Bushs Pearl Harbor

Hey MKULTRA, this is supposed to be in your copy-and-paste thread!

Mods, please come and move this! :D
its not from Democracynow :)

What about David Icke?
whose that?

whose that?

He's an ex footballer turned conspiracy theorist who believes that the world is ruled by 7 foot tall shapeshifting lizards.

Seriously.

http://www.bangedup.com/bu_posts/pentagon121qwedc.swf

Found it! those who havent seen it should.

whose that?
http://www.davidicke.com/

seattle was 99 (5 year anniversary next week). before that there wasn't much in the us (except for a couple of smaller anarchist actions that only got local noteriety - and some hefty jail time for a few people), but there was stuff elsewhere in the world.
those jailed are political prisoners

You say that now, but just wait until you've been hired as a mall santa and that damned midget in a green suit kicks you in the balls for no fucking reason.
We hate the elveseseses!
We hates them, Precious, we hateses them!!!
LOL--just step on them

COOL, so you're saying George Bush is just like The Who (http://www.towsertrades.com/1979-12-03-WhoStampede.htm)
No, George Bush is more powerful than The Who!
George Bush is made of pure evil, fermented in Satan's leftover jock strap!
George Bush has a mobile fortress that is powered off of the souls of the damned!
George Bush can generate bread and fishes spontaniously, but the fissh all died of arsenic poisoning and the bread has anthrax instead of yeast!
George Bush is one of the Five Pig Men of the Apocalypse, who shall ride pigs forth at the end of days, spreading *shudder* tax cuts through the lands!
George Bush once developed psychic powers, and didn't use them for good!
Once, when George Bush was arguing with John Kerry, someone through a cup of beer at him. In response George Bush leaped into the stands and decked the guy. He then participated in a riot and was given a one year suspension from the NBA!

COOL, so you're saying George Bush is just like The Who (http://www.towsertrades.com/1979-12-03-WhoStampede.htm)
No--hes more like the Antichrists retarded half brother

No, George Bush is more powerful than The Who!
George Bush is made of pure evil, fermented in Satan's leftover jock strap!
George Bush has a mobile fortress that is powered off of the souls of the damned!
George Bush can generate bread and fishes spontaniously, but the fissh all died of arsenic poisoning and the bread has anthrax instead of yeast!
George Bush is one of the Five Pig Men of the Apocalypse, who shall ride pigs forth at the end of days, spreading *shudder* tax cuts through the lands!
George Bush once developed psychic powers, and didn't use them for good!
Once, when George Bush was arguing with John Kerry, someone through a cup of beer at him. In response George Bush leaped into the stands and decked the guy. He then participated in a riot and was given a one year suspension from the NBA!
you should write comedy skits

I was refering more to the location, the south and all that, but whatever floats your boat.
Don't make fun of my South! I happen to like sweet tea and grits to go with my ultraconservative evangelical Christian worldview.

Here's some of the reasons why I think the Bush administration deliberately allowed the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the USA. Note: I don't think they knew it would be the WTC until the last minute... they just knew it would be planes, and big.


The Bush Administration received numerous warnings, in detail, that planes were going to be hijacked.

Something like 67 other times in the same year, prior to 9/11, planes that deviated slightly from the flight plan had fighters scrambled to investigate. The 9/11 planes recieved no such fighter response.

Numerous inconsistencies in what Bush said about the attacks show he has had a cover story given to him and he fails to follow it. Example, he said that he saw the first plane hit the tower and said "There's one terrible pilot", despite no video footage of the first attack having been released until after he gave this report of what he said.

The PNAC report states that another Pearl Harbour style event would be necessary to precipitate support for legislation and action so that America could begin to "lead the world" in the 21st Century. This report highlights the importance of obtaining new oil supplies.

Nine days after 9/11, Rumsfeld gave the order to take control of the southernmost oil fields in Iraq. Why was he concerning himself with Iraq's oil fields when the identified culprit was Bin Laden, who was hiding in Afghanistan.

Prior to 9/11, a delegation was sent to Afghanistan to negotiate the contruction of a pipeline that would deliver oil to an Enron facility on the Pakistani coast. When the Afghans said they didn't wish for the pipeling to be built, they were told that they would "provide us with this oil on a carpet of gold, or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs".

Since Afghanistan, Bush has shown no intent to capture Osama bin Laden. He has not mentioned his name in any of the State of the Union addresses since Afghanistan. One military higher-up stated that bin Laden was not the prime target.

When Iraq was invaded, the oil fields and company buildings were the first to be guarded. Halliburton, Cheney's old company, was given contracts practically immediately.



^^^^ That's some of it. Not got the time to analyse the events of 9-11, but it's pretty scary stuff when you put the events in NYC alongside Bush's actions minute-by-minute.


[EDIT: None of this stuff is a product of 'watching too much Michael Moore'. I don't think any of it is actually in Fahrenheit 9/11, and considering I knew all this for a long time before the film came out at the cinema, coupled with the fact that even then I didn't see the film until three weeks ago in my politics class, it's all independent. You'll notice I didn't bring up the flying of Bin Laden family members out of the U.S. after 9/11: I have some problems with that render it ineligible as a point.]

http://www.bangedup.com/bu_posts/pentagon121qwedc.swf
Found it! those who havent seen it should.

Are we going to make a tradition out of debunking and ridiculing that pathetic flash movie?

He's an ex footballer turned conspiracy theorist who believes that the world is ruled by 7 foot tall shapeshifting lizards.

Seriously.
something mustve set him off to think that. Ive sometimes wondered myself about the "humanity" of creatures like Cheney. I think alot of people have to admit if they thought about it honestly that he doesnt belong to the same species as us.

http://www.bangedup.com/bu_posts/pentagon121qwedc.swf

Found it! those who havent seen it should.
good job--thanks

something mustve set him off to think that. Ive sometimes wondered myself about the "humanity" of creatures like Cheney. I think alot of people have to admit if they thought about it honestly that he doesnt belong to the same species as us.

He looks like he would seriously consider eating your first-born child.

those jailed are political prisoners
um, if you mean they are political prisoners because the reason they committed the crime was political, then I guess so. But in my book, a political prisoner is someone who is jailed for his/her beliefs, not for violent actions. (Rioting, vandalism)

http://www.davidicke.com/
thanks M8

Here's some of the reasons why I think the Bush administration deliberately allowed the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the USA. Note: I don't think they knew it would be the WTC until the last minute... they just knew it would be planes, and big.


The Bush Administration received numerous warnings, in detail, that planes were going to be hijacked.

Something like 67 other times in the same year, prior to 9/11, planes that deviated slightly from the flight plan had fighters scrambled to investigate. The 9/11 planes recieved no such fighter response.

Numerous inconsistencies in what Bush said about the attacks show he has had a cover story given to him and he fails to follow it. Example, he said that he saw the first plane hit the tower and said "There's one terrible pilot", despite no video footage of the first attack having been released until after he gave this report of what he said.

The PNAC report states that another Pearl Harbour style event would be necessary to precipitate support for legislation and action so that America could begin to "lead the world" in the 21st Century. This report highlights the importance of obtaining new oil supplies.

Nine days after 9/11, Rumsfeld gave the order to take control of the southernmost oil fields in Iraq. Why was he concerning himself with Iraq's oil fields when the identified culprit was Bin Laden, who was hiding in Afghanistan.

Prior to 9/11, a delegation was sent to Afghanistan to negotiate the contruction of a pipeline that would deliver oil to an Enron facility on the Pakistani coast. When the Afghans said they didn't wish for the pipeling to be built, they were told that they would "provide us with this oil on a carpet of gold, or we will bury you under a carpet of bombs".

Since Afghanistan, Bush has shown no intent to capture Osama bin Laden. He has not mentioned his name in any of the State of the Union addresses since Afghanistan. One military higher-up stated that bin Laden was not the prime target.

When Iraq was invaded, the oil fields and company buildings were the first to be guarded. Halliburton, Cheney's old company, was given contracts practically immediately.



^^^^ That's some of it. Not got the time to analyse the events of 9-11, but it's pretty scary stuff when you put the events in NYC alongside Bush's actions minute-by-minute.


[EDIT: None of this stuff is a product of 'watching too much Michael Moore'. I don't think any of it is actually in Fahrenheit 9/11, and considering I knew all this for a long time before the film came out at the cinema, coupled with the fact that even then I didn't see the film until three weeks ago in my politics class, it's all independent. You'll notice I didn't bring up the flying of Bin Laden family members out of the U.S. after 9/11: I have some problems with that render it ineligible as a point.]
now why arent the strong points you made here made in the facist American media?

Are we going to make a tradition out of debunking and ridiculing that pathetic flash movie?

Yes lets forget the facts it brings up and all the evidence its supplies, its a flash video so must be automaticly wrong. :rolleyes:

true--at least demons have colorful language skills
And cool sounding names. Neo-Conservative Kittens have stupid names

Cheney-kins
Rummy-poo
Candy-Rice
Bushy-mufflekin

He looks like he would seriously consider eating your first-born child.
LOL true true--he doesnt even have a human heart. Its some kind of infernal device

now why arent the strong points you made here made in the facist American media?

Y'know..... I've no idea, mate. :D :sniper:

Yes lets forget the facts it brings up and all the evidence its supplies, its a flash video so must be automaticly wrong. :rolleyes:
think of how much sadder the world would be if we didnt at least have the internet to let us know the truth our enemy occupied media wont report

now why arent the strong points you made here made in the facist American media?


tony blair prevents it. :)

tony blair prevents it. :)
Tony Blair is a pathetic poodle

LOL true true--he doesnt even have a human heart. Its some kind of infernal device

There's a thought.. Dick Cheney the 7 foot tall robot shape shifting lizard!
;)

um, if you mean they are political prisoners because the reason they committed the crime was political, then I guess so. But in my book, a political prisoner is someone who is jailed for his/her beliefs, not for violent actions. (Rioting, vandalism)
They weren't rioting! They were just throwing rocks around when an evil, neo-conservative window got in the way of one at the last moment!

Tony Blair is a pathetic poodle


No dude, that's what he wants people to think. He's behind everything. Just look at what he's done to civil rights in the UK.

And he's been in power since before Bush, setting this whole thing up. The evidence is there if you look for it. He's the evil mastermind, and he uses his control over the world media to take the heat off him and make him look like the poodle so no one will suspect.

No dude, that's what he wants people to think. He's behind everything. Just look at what he's done to civil rights in the UK.

And he's been in power since before Bush, setting this whole thing up. The evidence is there if you look for it. He's the evil mastermind, and he uses his control over the world media to take the heat off him and make him look like the poodle so no one will suspect.

lol; trust you to trivialise this nice thread.

[Note to neo-cons: i've already considering every possible joke alleging that the conspiracy 'theories' have already trivialised this thread... and none of said jokes are funny or sensible.]

No dude, that's what he wants people to think. He's behind everything. Just look at what he's done to civil rights in the UK.

And he's been in power since before Bush, setting this whole thing up. The evidence is there if you look for it. He's the evil mastermind, and he uses his control over the world media to take the heat off him and make him look like the poodle so no one will suspect.

Tell me what he's done to civil rights in the UK apart from banning fox hunting.

lol; trust you to trivialise this nice thread.

[Note to neo-cons: i've already considering every possible joke alleging that the conspiracy 'theories' have already trivialised this thread... and none of said jokes are funny or sensible.]

Now why, pray tell, am I not allowed to have a paranoid fear of Blair.

He was my English Grandmother's MP you know, so I feel I am more qualified than most to speak out about this menance.

In any event, I am doing a public service, he manages to slip under the radar far to often. (He even has the UK public thinking that Gordon Brown is in charge, how smart is that.)

Let us also not forget the video of Bush being told about 9-11 while with kids lisening to a story. He didint leave, didint flinch didint show any signs of worry.

Acording to a documentry i saw about 9-11 they say for somthing like this to happen there is only two possible reasons why.

1) He already knew about it in advance.
2) He went into shock and disbelife.

Most pro Bush suporters go for 2 and say he didint want to upset the children but i still think he should of shown some sign of worry. Having the world trade center destroyed, the pentagon damaged and many lives lost due to a terrorist attack isint somthing you just forget about till you can leave the room gracfully,

Let us also not forget the video of Bush being told about 9-11 while with kids lisening to a story. He didint leave, didint flinch didint show any signs of worry.

Acording to a documentry i saw about 9-11 they say for somthing like this to happen there is only two possible reasons why.

1) He already knew about it in advance.
2) He went into shock and disbelife.

Most pro Bush suporters go for 2 and say he didint want to upset the children but i still think he should of shown some sign of worry. Having the world trade center destroyed, the pentagon damaged and many lives lost due to a terrorist attack isint somthing you just forget about till you can leave the room gracfully,

Hehe, yeah I know. "We didn't want to frighten the children..." plenty of time for that with all the crap you're going to shove down their throat later on about how they're under attack from terrorists everyday.

What was it Ernst Rohm, Hitler's War Minister, said? Something like "It's very easy to get the people to do what you want. You simply tell them they are under attack, and denounce those who don't support you as unpatriotic. It works the same in every Democracy."

Yes lets forget the facts it brings up and all the evidence its supplies, its a flash video so must be automaticly wrong. :rolleyes:

HAY GUYS, maybe I never said anything to that effect? Maybe there was a thread about this before? Maybe its been debunked (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm) already?

CNN Poll 11-10-04: 90% Believe US Complicity In 911 Attacks

I want a link to this poll, or it'll be disregarded.

$100,000 REWARD to the first person to deliver a full mathematical, engineering proof of how the impact and/or fires caused any of the WTC buildings to collapse the way the government claims! It must include all the fuel, mass, critical temperatures, likely temperatures and their causes, energy needed to crush concrete into fine powder, force needed to sheer bolts and rivets, time calculations, and all the other relevant data in a detailed analysis to be reviewed by accredited engineers on a team headed by Jeff King http://911review.org/Wiki/King,Jeff.shtml, engineer and doctor educated at MIT.

$10,000 FIRST PRIZE for engineering students who can best prove how the buildings collapsed.

Ten $1,000 prize for runner-ups. For application: http://www.reopen911.org

If he's an honest man, Jimmy Walter had better be prepared to lose quite a bit of money.

http://www.bangedup.com/bu_posts/pentagon121qwedc.swf

Found it! those who havent seen it should.

You can repost it a thousand times, but it's still wrong (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm).

the concentration camps are at this location:

Link shows the document pertaining to civilian labor camps, the link at the bottom is to a site that shows the locations for up to 800 camps already set up and running.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/concentration

You're posting a Clinton-era letter from a congressman about prisons as proof that Bush wants to establish concentration camps?

Bush himself probbably didnt know that the attack on the world trade centre would occur, but his advisers did. They intercepted a message in arabic and did not translate it till september the 12 or 13 it said "tomorrow is zero hour" (something like that).

I am pretty sure that we presume innocence in this country. The burden of proof falls on those who say that it was a conspiracy.
Yes, and so far the government hasn't even tried to prove that bin Laden the alleged 19 hijackers are actually responsible.

dumbest thing ever. It is impossible to prove it scientifically. The man isn't taking any risk for his $100 000

Police in Chile have arrested between 300 and 500 people following protests ahead of an economic forum which will be attended by President Bush. Police fired water cannons and tear gas at the demonstrators who had set up barricades in the streets. The demonstrations were seen as much as a protest against President Bush as against this week's Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum in Santiago. Protesters in the street could be heard shouting, "Get out of here, Bush. We don't want, we don't want to be an American colony."
democracynow.org


Yeah, I'm sure those fruitcake "anarchists" who travel with the G8 like the followers of The Dead had absolutely nothing to do with it.

You're posting a Clinton-era letter from a congressman about prisons as proof that Bush wants to establish concentration camps?


Clinton era = Blair.

As I have said all along, Tony Blair is behind everything, but no-one will listen.

Clinton era = Blair.

As I have said all along, Tony Blair is behind everything, but no-one will listen.
No. David Blunkett is the real power behind the power behind the throne

Clinton era = Blair.

As I have said all along, Tony Blair is behind everything, but no-one will listen.

Of course, how could we all be so blind, Blair has been behind everything from the beginning... :rolleyes: :D

Of course, how could we all be so blind, Blair has been behind everything from the beginning... :rolleyes: :D

Finally, people are starting to see it a last. Blair must be stopped, before he can spread his fascism further.

um, if you mean they are political prisoners because the reason they committed the crime was political, then I guess so. But in my book, a political prisoner is someone who is jailed for his/her beliefs, not for violent actions. (Rioting, vandalism)
rioting and vandalism are responses to social injustice and police provocations. Why jail the people who do these things but not the system that makes it possible?

And cool sounding names. Neo-Conservative Kittens have stupid names

Cheney-kins
Rummy-poo
Candy-Rice
Bushy-mufflekinthey can only be loveable if they were stuffed lol

They weren't rioting! They were just throwing rocks around when an evil, neo-conservative window got in the way of one at the last moment!
PEOPLE BEFORE WINDOWS

You're posting a Clinton-era letter from a congressman about prisons as proof that Bush wants to establish concentration camps?
its true the govt has been wanting the excuse to enslave us for a long time now they have the chance under Bush

Yeah, I'm sure those fruitcake "anarchists" who travel with the G8 like the followers of The Dead had absolutely nothing to do with it.
what the world needs now is more fruitcake anarchists on every street corner thats the only thing that stands between you and total social breakdown and alienation

the concentration camps are at this location:

Link shows the document pertaining to civilian labor camps, the link at the bottom is to a site that shows the locations for up to 800 camps already set up and running.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/concentration


From that site which has a link that shows where these "concentration camps" are located....

Quoted from the site:
There over 800 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty.....

This one:
El Dorado - Federal prison converted into forced-labor camp, UNICOR industries.

Is an outright lie. This Federal prison is still a Federal prison.

FYI: Someone needs to inform whomever made this FEMA Concentration Camp list that McConnell AFB isn't in Leavenworth, Ks!! LOL

Its a logical fallacy to say "try and prove something didn't happen".

Unfortunatly for this dope, one of my old engineering profs was part of the design team for the origianl WTC and said since the begining that it was entirely possible for a fully fueled 727 to take down the WTC like happened. If I hadn't changed majors, I'd be getting a cut of that.

There's a thought.. Dick Cheney the 7 foot tall robot shape shifting lizard!
;)
with the permanent sneer

No dude, that's what he wants people to think. He's behind everything. Just look at what he's done to civil rights in the UK.

And he's been in power since before Bush, setting this whole thing up. The evidence is there if you look for it. He's the evil mastermind, and he uses his control over the world media to take the heat off him and make him look like the poodle so no one will suspect.
yeah but hes Labor party

rioting and vandalism are responses to social injustice and police provocations. Why jail the people who do these things but not the system that makes it possible?

Right..because destroying the livelyhoods of others by trashing their stores, injuring police officers attempting to maintain the rule of law and order and being general out of town pain in the asses isnt right. Amazing how MLK and Ghandi both accomplished change without violence...but its okay for these guys to be as violent as they want to? Sit-ins are one thing..rock throwing morons is another.

what the world needs now is more fruitcake anarchists on every street corner thats the only thing that stands between you and total social breakdown and alienation


Umm..anarchists at least the violent ones...WANT social breakdown...or does rioting count as civilization? Because if looting and rockthrowing is civilization then I'll take barbarism all the way.

Hehe, yeah I know. "We didn't want to frighten the children..." plenty of time for that with all the crap you're going to shove down their throat later on about how they're under attack from terrorists everyday.

What was it Ernst Rohm, Hitler's War Minister, said? Something like "It's very easy to get the people to do what you want. You simply tell them they are under attack, and denounce those who don't support you as unpatriotic. It works the same in every Democracy."
Ernst Rohm wasn't minister of war. He was head of the SA.

I posted yes, but the real answer is no, he had the evidence, he and his administration just chose to ignore it. My mistake.

um, if you mean they are political prisoners because the reason they committed the crime was political, then I guess so. But in my book, a political prisoner is someone who is jailed for his/her beliefs, not for violent actions. (Rioting, vandalism)

pretty much every political prisoner around the world is being held for committing actual crimes - real or alleged.

Intimidating Columbia University Joseph Massad, assistant professor at Columbia University and Al-Ahram Weekly contributing writer, is the latest target in an ongoing witch-hunt launched by pro-Israel groups within American academia. Below is a statement he issued in response

The recent controversy elicited by the propaganda film Columbia Unbecoming, a film funded and produced by a Boston-based pro- Israel organisation, is the latest salvo in a campaign of intimidation of Jewish and non-Jewish professors who criticise Israel. This witch-hunt aims to stifle pluralism, academic freedom, and the freedom of expression on university campuses in order to ensure that only one opinion is permitted, that of uncritical support for the State of Israel.

Columbia University, the Department of Middle East and Asian Languages and Cultures, and I personally, have been the target of this intensified campaign for over three years. Pro-Israel groups are pressuring the university to abandon proper academic procedure in evaluating scholarship, and want to force the university to silence all critical opinions. Such silencing, the university has refused to do so far, despite mounting intimidation tactics by these anti- democratic and anti-academic forces.

The major strategy that these pro-Israel groups use is one that equates criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism. But the claim that criticism of Israel is an expression of anti-Semitism presupposes that Israeli actions are "Jewish" actions and that all Jews, whether Israelis or non-Israelis (and the majority of world Jews are not Israelis), are responsible for all Israeli actions and that they all have the same opinion of Israel.

But this is utter anti-Semitic nonsense. Jews, whether in America, Europe, Israel, Russia, or Argentina, are, like all other groups, not uniform in their political or social opinions. There are many Israeli Jews who are critical of Israel just as there are American Jews who criticise Israeli policy. I have always made a distinction between Jews, Israelis, and Zionists in my writings and my lectures. It is those who want to claim that Jews, Israelis, and Zionists are one group (and that they think exactly alike) who are the anti- Semites. Israel in fact has no legal, moral, or political basis to represent world Jews (ten million strong) who never elected it to that position and who refuse to move to that country.

Unlike the pro-Israel groups, I do not think that Israeli actions are "Jewish" actions or that they reflect the will of the Jewish people worldwide! All those pro-Israeli propagandists who want to reduce the Jewish people to the State of Israel are the anti-Semites who want to eliminate the existing pluralism among Jews. The majority of Israel's supporters in the United States are, in fact, not Jews but Christian fundamentalist anti-Semites who seek to convert Jews. They constitute a quarter of the American electorate and are the most powerful anti-Semitic group worldwide. The reason why the pro-Israel groups do not fight them is because these anti-Semites are pro-Israel. Therefore, it is not anti-Semitism that offends pro- Israel groups; what offends them is anti-Israel criticism. In fact, Israel and the US groups supporting it have long received financial and political support from numerous anti-Semites.

This is not to say that some anti-Zionists may not also be anti- Semitic. Some are, and I have denounced them in my writings and lectures. But the test of their anti-Semitism is not whether they like or hate Israel. The test of anti-Semitism is anti-Jewish hatred, not anti-Israel criticism. In my forthcoming book, The Persistence of the Palestinian Question, I link the Jewish Question to the Palestinian Question and conclude that both questions persist because anti-Semitism persists. To resolve the Palestinian and the Jewish questions, our task is to fight anti-Semitism in any guise, whether in its pro-Israel or anti-Israel guise, and not to defend the reprehensible policies of the racist Israeli government.

I am now being targeted because of my public writings and statements through the charge that I am allegedly intolerant in the classroom, a charge based on statements made by people who were never my students, except in one case which I will address momentarily. Let me first state that I have intimidated no one. In fact, Tomy Schoenfeld, the Israeli soldier who appears in the film and is cited by the New York Sun, has never been my student and has never taken a class with me, as he himself informed The Jewish Week. I have never met him.

As for Noah Liben, who appears in the film according to newspaper accounts (I have not seen the film), he was indeed a student in my Palestinian and Israeli Politics and Societies course in the spring of 2001. Noah seems to have forgotten the incident he cites. During a lecture about Israeli state racism against Asian and African Jews, Noah defended these practices on the basis that Asian and African Jews were underdeveloped and lacked Jewish culture, which the Ashkenazi State operatives were teaching them. When I explained to him that, as the assigned readings clarified, these were racist policies, he insisted that these Jews needed to be modernised and the Ashkenazim were helping them by civilising them.

Many students gasped. He asked me if I understood his point. I informed him that I did not. Noah seems not to have done his reading during the week on gender and Zionism. One of the assigned readings by Israeli scholar and feminist Simona Sharoni spoke of how in Hebrew the word "zayin" means both penis and weapon in a discussion of Israeli militarised masculinity. Noah, seemingly not having read the assigned material, mistook the pronunciation of "zayin" as "Zion", pronounced in Hebrew "tziyon". As for his spurious claim that I said that "Jews in Nazi Germany were not physically abused or harassed until Kristallnacht in November 1938", Noah must not have been listening carefully.

During the discussion of Nazi Germany, we addressed the racist ideology of Nazism, the Nuremberg Laws enacted in 1934, and the institutionalised racism and violence against all facets of Jewish life, all of which preceded the extermination of European Jews. This information was also available to Noah in his readings, had he chosen to consult them. Moreover, the lie that the film propagates claiming that I would equate Israel with Nazi Germany is abhorrent. I have never made such a reprehensible equation.

I remember having a friendly rapport with Noah (as I do with all my students). He would drop off newspaper articles in my mailbox, come to my office hours, and greet me on the street often. He never informed me or acted in a way that showed intimidation. Indeed, he would write me e-mails, even after he stopped being my student, to argue with me about Israel. I have kept our correspondence.

On 10 March, 2002, a year after he took a class with me, Noah wrote me an e-mail chastising me for having invited an Israeli speaker to class the year before when he was in attendance. It turned out that Noah's memory failed him again, as he mistook the speaker I had invited for another Israeli scholar. After a long diatribe, Noah excoriated me: "How can you bring such a phony to speak to your class??"

I am not sure if his misplaced reproach was indicative of an intimidated student or one who felt comfortable enough to rebuke his professor!

I am dedicated to all my students, many of whom are Jewish. Neither Columbia University nor I have ever received a complaint from any student claiming intimidation or any such nonsense. Students at Columbia have many venues of lodging complaints, whether with the student deans and assistant deans, school deans and assistant deans, department chairmen, departmental directors of undergraduate studies, the ombudsman's office, the provost, the president, and the professors themselves. No such complaint was ever filed.

Many of my Jewish and non-Jewish students (including my Arab students) differ with me in all sorts of ways, whether on politics or on philosophy or theory. This is exactly what teaching and learning are about, how to articulate differences and understand other perspectives while acquiring knowledge, how to analyse one's own perspective and those of others, how to interrogate the basis of an opinion.

Columbia University is home to the most prestigious centre for Israel and Jewish studies in the country. Columbia has six endowed chairs in Jewish studies (ranging from religion to Yiddish to Hebrew literature, among others). In addition, a seventh chair in Israel studies is now being established after pro-Israel groups launched a vicious campaign against the only chair in modern Arab studies that Columbia established two years ago, demanding "balance"!

Columbia does not have a centre for Arab studies, let alone a centre for Palestine studies. The Department of Middle East and Asian Languages and Cultures (MEALAC) encompasses the study of over one billion South Asians, over 300 million Arabs, tens of millions of Turks, of Iranians, of Kurds, of Armenians, and of six million Israelis, five million of whom are Jewish.

To study these varied populations and cultures, MEALAC has three full time professors who cover Israel and Hebrew, four full time professors to cover the Arab World, and two full-time professors who cover South Asia. One need not do complicated mathematics to see who is overrepresented and who is not, if the question is indeed a demographic one.

Moreover, the class that this propaganda machine is targeting, my "Palestinian and Israeli Politics and Societies" course, is one of a number of courses offered at Columbia that cover the Palestinian/Israel conflict. All the others have an Israel-friendly perspective, including Naomi Weinberger's "Conflict Resolution in the Middle East", Michael Stanislawski's "History of the State of Israel, 1948-Present" and a course offered in my own department by my colleague Dan Miron, "Zionism: A Cultural Perspective".

My course, which is critical of Zionism and Palestinian nationalism, is in fact an elective course which no student is forced to take.

Let us briefly review these claims of intimidation. Not only have the students (all but Noah have not even taken my courses) not used a single university venue to articulate their alleged grievances, they are now sponsored by a private political organisation with huge funds that produced and funded a film about them, screened it to the major US media and to the top brass of the Columbia administration.

Last Wednesday, the film was screened in Israel to a government minister and to participants at a conference on anti- Semitism. The film has still not been released to the public here and is used as a sort of secret evidence in a military trial.

The film has also been used to trump up a national campaign with the aid of a New York congressman to get me fired. All this power of intimidation is being exercised not by a professor against students, but by political organisations who use students against a junior non-tenured faculty member. A senior departmental colleague of mine, Dan Miron, who votes on my promotion and tenure, has recently expressed open support for this campaign of intimidation based on hearsay.

Indeed with this campaign against me going into its fourth year, I chose under the duress of coercion and intimidation not to teach my course this year. It is my academic freedom that has been circumscribed. But not only mine. The Columbia courses that remain are all taught from an Israel-friendly angle.

The aim of the David Project propaganda film is to undermine our academic freedom, our freedom of speech, and Columbia's tradition of openness and pluralism.

It is in reaction to this witch-hunt that 718 international scholars and students signed a letter defending me against intimidation and sent it to President Bollinger, with hundreds more sending separate letters, while over 1,300 people from all walks of life are signing an online petition supporting me and academic freedom. Academics and students from around the world recognise that the message of this propaganda film is to suppress pluralism at Columbia and at all American universities so that one and only one opinion be allowed on campuses, the opinion of defending Israel uncritically.

I need not remind anyone that this is a slippery slope, for the same pressures could be applied to faculty who have been critical of US foreign policy, in Iraq for example, on the grounds that such critiques are unpatriotic.

Surely we all agree that while the university can hardly defend any one political position on any current question, it must defend the need for debate and critical consideration of all such questions, whether in public fora or in the classroom. Anything less would be the beginning of the death of academic freedom.

Religious fundementalists are scum, regardless of whether they are christian, muslim or jew.


Israel must be held to the same standards of international law and of morality as all other nations. A special eye must be kept upon its fundementalists elements, for they are dangerous to the extreme.

is this from democracynow.org?

If so, MOVE IT TO MKULTRA'S THREAD, M0ds!

This is from the Daily News, who did an investigative story on Columbia University and supposed Anti-Israeli feelings at the school..and the so called "victimized" professors:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/254925p-218295c.html

Decent read from my hometown paper.

OI--this post wasnt from Democracynow :mad:

Shh, it's your "conentration thread" Don't let the guards hear the disagreements with their policies...

OI--this post wasnt from Democracynow :mad:

All the same spiel from you..it doesnt even have to be from Democracynow. All you do is copy and paste for attention..you dont add your own comments to the end, you dont state your opinion. You find an article and you clutter the general forum with it...this is why we RPers wouldnt miss if the General Forum disappeared one day...because folks like you only clutter it up.

OI--this post wasnt from Democracynow :mad:
Good

This is from the Daily News, who did an investigative story on Columbia University and supposed Anti-Israeli feelings at the school..and the so called "victimized" professors:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/254925p-218295c.html

Decent read from my hometown paper.
dailynews=trash tabloid

dailynews=trash tabloid

Right..and whats Democracynow?

"You want to fight terrorisim stop paying taxes"
www.filthylies.com

http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/1359

Here's another one.

"You want to fight terrorisim stop paying taxes"
www.filthylies.com
work filthy link, work!

"You want to fight terrorisim stop paying taxes"
www.filthylies.com

The government is already trying to silence you! The site cant be found! :rolleyes:

Right..and whats Democracynow?
the voice of truth and reason

from now on Im only using this thread to talk about mod oppression against leftwing news :mad:

the voice of truth and reason
Right..because only your sources are right? Uh huh...close minded bias.

the voice of truth and reason
Let's just say, that just by pure chance, you know, that one out of a million situation, that it isn't? That the site has been feeding you lies for ages, and that it is really a front, for say, the Extremely Liberal Mimes Organization (ELMO) What would you do then?

the voice of truth and reason

Is that because it's your political alignment or is there a viable reason why it's so truthful and reasonable?

Let's just say, that just by pure chance, you know, that one out of a million situation, that it isn't? That the site has been feeding you lies for ages, and that it is really a front, for say, the Extremely Liberal Mimes Organization (ELMO) What would you do then?

Lets burn Seasame Street?

Lets burn Seasame Street?
With Napalm! And Phosphorus weapons! (If you remember the one thread a week or so ago about US troops using Phosphorus weapons in Falluja, you'll get this.)

Right..because only your sources are right? Uh huh...close minded bias.
closeminded bias=mods censoring news from the non corporate media

closeminded bias=mods censoring news from the non corporate media

Wait wait..so lets get this straight..you think the mods are censoring you?

Let's just say, that just by pure chance, you know, that one out of a million situation, that it isn't? That the site has been feeding you lies for ages, and that it is really a front, for say, the Extremely Liberal Mimes Organization (ELMO) What would you do then?
the only way to determine the truth of something is in the full light of day--not by consigning it to a ghetto thread

Wait wait..so lets get this straight..you think the mods are censoring you?
yes its a form of censorship thru the process of ghettoization--this is exactly how the rightwing hijacked the american media and brainwashed YOU

closeminded bias=mods censoring news from the non corporate media

They aren't censoring you. If you were to post the same mindless drivel from, say, CNN, you'd get the same treatment for SPAM.

yes its a form of censorship thru the process of ghettoization

BWAHAHAHA ROFLMAO HAHAHAHAHA ROTFLMLTAO HAHAHAHAHA

You have serious got to be kidding me.. HAHAHAHAHA!

yes its a form of censorship thru the process of ghettoization--this is exactly how the rightwing hijacked the american media and brainwashed YOU

So now you're brainwashing us! :rolleyes:

this is exactly how the rightwing hijacked the american media and brainwashed YOU

You sad lonely child..how amazing you know so little of me and think I'm brainwashed...

yes its a form of censorship thru the process of ghettoization--this is exactly how the rightwing hijacked the american media and brainwashed YOU

And how can you honestly say the rightwing has brainwashed you when you believe anything democracynow says?

censorship thru the process of ghettoization
*does not stop laughing for 5 straight minutes*

IM BREAKING OUT OF THIS THREAD!!! I WILL NOT BE PUT IN A CAGE FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT :sniper: :mad: :sniper:

IF YOU WANNA KEEP POSTING IN HERE YOULL BE SPEAKING TO AN EMPTY CAGE !!!

IM BREAKING OUT OF THIS THREAD!!! I WILL NOT BE PUT IN A CAGE FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT :sniper: :mad: :sniper:

IF YOU WANNA KEEP POSTING IN HERE YOULL BE SPEAKING TO AN EMPTY CAGE !!!


Nice knowing you..I'm pretty sure the mods may just consider that spam though.

its true the govt has been wanting the excuse to enslave us for a long time now they have the chance under Bush

You didn't address the rest of my statement, so we'll try again: The letter you linked is about prisons for civilian criminals, not concentration camps, and I dare you to prove otherwise.

IM BREAKING OUT OF THIS THREAD!!! I WILL NOT BE PUT IN A CAGE FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT :sniper: :mad: :sniper:

IF YOU WANNA KEEP POSTING IN HERE YOULL BE SPEAKING TO AN EMPTY CAGE !!!

You're an attention-seaking fool, no different than a child acting out to get noticed. Cease this nonsense now before you get yourself banned. Spam is posting a lot of what no one wants to see, i.e. your baseless threads.

You're an attention-seaking fool, no different than a child acting out to get noticed. Cease this nonsense now before you get yourself banned. Spam is posting a lot of what no one wants to see, i.e. your baseless threads.

Maybe he is an attention-seeking fool, but I for one am actually interested in what MKUltra has to say, butterfly. I'd like to think you could choose to simply not read MKs posts rather than slag him as harshly as you are, seeing as you take such offense to them.

Let him have his say. If you don't want to hear it, don't listen. But don't think you speak for me when you say that no-one here wants to listen.

yes its a form of censorship thru the process of ghettoization--this is exactly how the rightwing hijacked the american media and brainwashed YOU

Your view of the mods is actually astoundingly similar to Blindliberals.

IM BREAKING OUT OF THIS THREAD!!! I WILL NOT BE PUT IN A CAGE FOR YOUR AMUSEMENT :sniper: :mad: :sniper:

IF YOU WANNA KEEP POSTING IN HERE YOULL BE SPEAKING TO AN EMPTY CAGE !!!
*runs a tin cup across your cage, thus pissing off the angry "ghettoized" liberal inside*

Your view of the mods is actually astoundingly similar to Blindliberals.
then clearly we must be on to somethim

*runs a tin cup across your cage, thus pissing off the angry "ghettoized" liberal inside*
throws feces at superpowr :mad:

Haha, most amusing.
You do know that every right-winger who was posted anything similar to the trash you spam on a daily basis has been banned instantly? Consider yourself lucky. The mods here are quite liberal, I can assure you. Or, if you doubt it, go ahead and call Stephistan a bush-lover-evil-nazi. I dare you.
BTW, you are quite amusing. Keep up the good work.
Did you know you burn three calories every time you laugh?

Stephanistan is a Bush lover evil nazi :D

If so, she is a very good liar.

Stephanistan is a Bush lover evil nazi :D
ROFLMAO!!! Who wants to place bets on Steph's reaction to reading this. I'd be shocked if she doesn't at least chuckle at that comment. Then she may feel insulted afterwards.

As for the jailbreak... Sits on top of guard tower with new sniper rifle ready to shoot if the caged animal escapes. It will be too dangerous to let him into the wild.

(apologies to MKULTRA, but I needed a laugh)

:confused:

ROFLMAO!!! Who wants to place bets on Steph's reaction to reading this. I'd be shocked if she doesn't at least chuckle at that comment. Then she may feel insulted afterwards.

As for the jailbreak... Sits on top of guard tower with new sniper rifle ready to shoot if the caged animal escapes. It will be too dangerous to let him into the wild.

(apologies to MKULTRA, but I needed a laugh)
tranquilzer darts?

tranquilzer darts?
At the moment yes, but if the escapes become too common we will need something more harmful. Actually, whatever is fired and if fired at all depends on the mods. I guess they have the guns and are sitting on the guard tower. I just got booted off of it.

ROFLMAO!!! Who wants to place bets on Steph's reaction to reading this. I'd be shocked if she doesn't at least chuckle at that comment. Then she may feel insulted afterwards.

As for the jailbreak... Sits on top of guard tower with new sniper rifle ready to shoot if the caged animal escapes. It will be too dangerous to let him into the wild.

(apologies to MKULTRA, but I needed a laugh)
she wont see it--shes too posh to be seen on a ghetto thread :)

At the moment yes, but if the escapes become too common we will need something more harmful. Actually, whatever is fired and if fired at all depends on the mods. I guess they have the guns and are sitting on the guard tower. I just got booted off of it.
Id crawl thru a hole ;)

/Considers the consequences of falling for flame-baiting .../
/Leaps in anyway./

OK, now you are just being silly.

Animals don't foam at the mouth when an evil person walks in.

Bush didn't cause any riots. Death and destruction don't follow him whither he goest. Crawford, Texas is actually a nice little town.

And frankly, any community of people that are so intellectually stunted that the only reaction they can muster to political disagreement is to destroy their own neighborhood deserves whatever they do to themselves.

Thank you. That is all.In the movie the Omen I saw on the sci fi channel on Halloween the baboons went nuts when Damien was driving thru the zoo with his mom. Theyre was also foam in their mouth. The Voice of the people is the Voice of God.

In the movie the Omen I saw on the sci fi channel on Halloween the baboons went nuts when Damien was driving thru the zoo with his mom. Theyre was also foam in their mouth. The Voice of the people is the Voice of God.

OK, I'll admit it. I was suckered, just like a ot of other n00bs.

Thank you, MKU, for an entertaining few minutes. You had me worried for a bit, though.

At the moment yes, but if the escapes become too common we will need something more harmful. Actually, whatever is fired and if fired at all depends on the mods. I guess they have the guns and are sitting on the guard tower. I just got booted off of it.
*takes away IDF's girly gun and hands him a 12.7mm*
Silly, dont you know that Pundits have thick skin?

thats got ot be the biggest load of BS i've ever heard, HAH, FRANCE WANTING TO RULE THE WORLD, THATS CRAZIER THAN KERRY CHOOSING EDWARDS FOR VP! France can even win a war by themselves, honestly! Besides they dont want to rule the world, they want to be the poeple who manipulate the people who rule the world, that would be much more like those sneaky french b*stards!

garrett the wise

No, the person who will manipulate the ruler of the world is me.