NationStates Jolt Archive

Since many threads here are about religion, I wanted to see what are the beliefs here.
Feel free to explain what do you exactly believe in if none of the propositions I made correspond to your beliefs.

By practicising, I mean "regular practice". For exemple, someone who goes to church once per week is practicising; someone who goes once per month is limit, someone who only follows some ceremonies like marriage is not practicising.

I am "technically" a christian, but im not a regular practicer. Also, i consider myself "open to influences". In other words, i havent found the right religion for me yet(and im too young to convert...Im looking at Islam though. Im trying to learn Arabic but youd be surprised how few people speak arabic in Panama...)

Hi from France. :D
I don't believe in a god.
I am atheistic and anticlerical.
As a good french republican, i consider that as from the moment when the religion does not intervene in the social or political life, each one is free to believe, or not, which he wants.

Hi from France. :D
I don't believe in a god.
I am atheistic and anticlerical.
As a good French republican, i consider that as from the moment when the religion does not intervene in the social or political life, each one is free to believe, or not, which he wants.
I'm exactly the same :p
french, atheist, anticlerical, but OK for religion if it does not intervene in politic/social life :D

Agnostic. Pro-freedom of religion.

I guess I am a christian. But I think that religion is a personal matter, and not something that you should be pushed into. Each to his, or her, own.

I'm exactly the same :p
french, atheist, anticlerical, but OK for religion if it does not intervene in politic/social life :D

Same, though I'm portuguese

So far, almost 70% of people belongs to no religion. I'd like to know what those who voted "others" believe in. Do you have your own home-made religion, or are you buddists, or...?

Apathetic Agnostic here. I don't know what's out there, and I really couldn't care less. If something wants to reveal itself to me, it can be my guest. Otherwise, I'll probably be an Atheist on my deathbed.

I'm agnostic - I personally can neither accept or reject fully the existance of a higher power; I keep myself open to anything, really.

And I profess freedom of religion

Hi from France. :D
I don't believe in a god.
I am atheistic and anticlerical.
As a good french republican, i consider that as from the moment when the religion does not intervene in the social or political life, each one is free to believe, or not, which he wants.
what does it mean to be anti-cleric?

I'm an Athiest among lots of Christians (My wife and kids are church going people, my Father in law is a lay preacher and lives in within a religious community) but none of them force their beliefs on me and I leave them alone on my thoughts on the subject.

Thats why this place can be fun, I can shoot my big mouth off whenever I feel like it ;)

I think there's a higher power that created existance, but just let it play out. I don't know if it's a god, or many gods, or anything like that. But I don't believe in religion because I don't think God would have given us free will if he wanted to dictate everything we do.

Buddhist, losely. None of the bon trappings involved in tibetan buddhism. Basically just rules for life more than a religion proper... but its the way to go :D.

Anticlerical Gnostic. I believe that spending time with your own Christ is more important than having others tell you what to believe.

All religions, are all made up. There is no such thing as "God" or "Allah" or "El". People always has questions. But people can't answer them (sometimes). Thats when "God" enter. God created our world [Bible] in six (6) days. In the seventh (7) he rested, he had a long week... This is written in a book, The Bible. It is written in a book because, a long time ago, people were thinking on "how the world was created, what is universe etc", they had no answers to those fellow questions. They (he, she whatever) wrote their own story, about the world. Religions comes up when people cant' come up with answers. It is all bullshit. I hope that people will understand that, sometime in the nearest future. :)

All religions, are all made up. There is no such thing as "God" or "Allah" or "El". People always has questions. But people can't answer them (sometimes). Thats when "God" enter. God created our world [Bible] in six (6) days. In the seventh (7) he rested, he had a long week... This is written in a book, The Bible. It is written in a book because, a long time ago, people were thinking on "how the world was created, what is universe etc", they had no answers to those fellow questions. They (he, she whatever) wrote their own story, about the world. Religions comes up when people cant' come up with answers. It is all bullshit. I hope that people will understand that, sometime in the nearest future. :)

Aha, you only talked about the CHRISTIAN bible? YOu dont know NEARLY enough about Islam to diss dat!

I believe in a higher power and that NO organized religion is right.
There's too much order in the chaos of the universe and our physical world for it all to be random or coincidental. I believe that a lot of the Bible contains historical accounts of actual people but are highly allegorical tales; the true meaning of which is unknowable to the ignorant masses.

what does it mean to be anti-cleric?

(I define myself as anti-clerical, but maybe my definition is not the dictionnary one)

to me, being anti-cleric means that you reject organised religions. I think that the catholic church organisation is a terrible thing because the pope has the power to decide what millions of persons will think, and it is one of the cause of anti-semitism in Europe. Same thing for muslim clerics: the clerics are usually the most extremists, and use their religious power to tell their fidels to go to "jihad" etc. Clerics can be a good thing however; but the risk is too high in my opinion to justify their presence. Well, I would not ban clerics, everyone is free to listen to who he wants. But I don't support them at all.

Buddhist here. I do have to point out that Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion if you want to get specific about it. Contrary to popular belief buddhists do not worship the big fat guy. The Buddha was an indian prince who started this way of thinking and one of the things he stressed that neither he nor anyone else was a god. He was simply a human who was "awake".

Essentially, Buddhism is about seeing the world for what it is. It is about seeking truth and walking the path of truth.

All religions, are all made up. There is no such thing as "God" or "Allah" or "El". People always has questions. But people can't answer them (sometimes). Thats when "God" enter. God created our world [Bible] in six (6) days. In the seventh (7) he rested, he had a long week... This is written in a book, The Bible. It is written in a book because, a long time ago, people were thinking on "how the world was created, what is universe etc", they had no answers to those fellow questions. They (he, she whatever) wrote their own story, about the world. Religions comes up when people cant' come up with answers. It is all bullshit. I hope that people will understand that, sometime in the nearest future. :)

Ever notice that many religions have similar creation stories? I'll leave that up to you to interpret.

Atheist here, pro-freedom of religion, and pro-freedom from religion.

ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!!!!1

*kills everyone in thread*

Sorry Steph, I got to this thread first. :p

ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!!!!1

*kills everyone in thread*

Sorry Steph, I got to this thread first. :p

neither is agnosticism. Sorry about that, shame on me... particularly since I'm atheist. I should have said "what religion/ belief do you believe in?" but it sounds terrible :(

And what's with this crap about "non-practicing". If you aren't practicing, you certainly don't take your indoctrined dogma seriously enough to be considered of that religion.

Pathetic... I'm off to go drink a screwdriver (I wish).

neither is agnosticism. Sorry about that, shame on me... particularly since I'm atheist. I should have said "what religion/ belief do you believe in?" but it sounds terrible :(

Yes, well, Atheists don't like to be lumped together anyways.

You should have said, "How do you identify yourself?"
And had one option that said, "I am an individual and will not be organized into a group"...

Then everyone would pick that group, and I'd laugh.

But seriously, it's a hard thing ot address from an atheist point of view, so I forgive you.

Usually I ask, "What philosophy are you currently entertaining?", which not only connotes that half the pollsters are delusional and incorrect, but that a certain mindset isn't (or at least should not) be definitive.

I'm an Erisian Discordian. So :upyours:

i belive in god , but he/she started this world then went on holiday and left the neightbor to look after our universe

(I define myself as anti-clerical, but maybe my definition is not the dictionnary one)

to me, being anti-cleric means that you reject organised religions. I think that the catholic church organisation is a terrible thing because the pope has the power to decide what millions of persons will think, and it is one of the cause of anti-semitism in Europe. Same thing for muslim clerics: the clerics are usually the most extremists, and use their religious power to tell their fidels to go to "jihad" etc. Clerics can be a good thing however; but the risk is too high in my opinion to justify their presence. Well, I would not ban clerics, everyone is free to listen to who he wants. But I don't support them at all.
so you are not just a non believer but you feel that those who DO believe shouldnt have an organized religion?

im gonna have to think about that for a while.

Taoist myself. People have enough to worry about in this life without having to worry about the consequences of actions in this one on where they might go in the next. Taoism is about the only belief system out there that does not do that.

what does it mean to be anti-cleric?
I defined the anti-clericalism in the last part of my answer.
An anti-clerical, in France, considers that religion, or the religious speech, should not intervene in the social and political life. It's, at the 19th century, the anticlericals ones which laicised/secularised the public schools , and separated Churches and State.
A clerical, is a person whose political and social speech is, partly or entirely, founded on a religious vision of society, like Bush or Kerry.

so you are not just a non believer but you feel that those who DO believe shouldnt have an organized religion?

im gonna have to think about that for a while.

I see that the clerics often abuses of their power to control the masses, and it has already been the cause of numerous humanitarian disasters. It is still OK if there is no "high degree" religious like the pope, but just priests, or if the priests are relativised, ie not seen as "the voice of God" like in many religions.

However, I must agree that you are not far from the truth, but keep in mind that don't plan to forbid clerics at any time - I just have the opinion that it is not good. Just like some people think it is not good to waste food, for exemple (I'm not comparing the 2 things, hm, just giving an exemple).

i am born a roman catholic, but i am avowedly atheist. you know what i hate, being who try to convince you your wrong for not believing in something. my gf prays for me every night to find true happpiness in god, so i tell her stop casue i am happy and she gets snotty. i really hate jahovahs thought. i dont need no god damn idiots disterbing my dreams.

This feels like an AA meeting. I'm a Catholic. I do not attend mass. I do not believe not believe in the Catholic Chruch as I think the pope is the biggest hypocrite to walk the earth. I think priests should get married and that women should be able to become priests. I have no problem with a lesbian or gay person beocming a priest/bishop/pope.

My sister was severly bullied in a rural primary school. The priest sat on the board of management at the school. As he was friends with the parents of the bastard who bullied and assaulted my sister he in his capacity as "good will' promoter did sweet fa about it and went on to indirectly refer to what happened at mass the next Sunday. I believe this man is a monster and should not be allowed near children. Obv, as a catholic I was disgusted with the sexual abuse scandel and the popes response 'priests don't harm children'.
I do however pray every night. At my college we have a multi dominational chruch which I do on a rare occassion pop in to. I think I believe in God. I believe in something. Not because I need there to believe in something. But I have prayed for things and they have happened, lots of things. For me this raises the question of Fate. In a way I do believe that every one has a path to follow its my alternative to praying to God.
After all of the above I did consider becoming Chruch of England, but then apart from all the study I'd have to do I realised that if there is truely a God he/she won't care which chruch I go too. As long as I try my best to treat others in the same manner as they would treat me, to do some good etc. I know this sounds very corny. I am spritual I believe that when we die we go to some form of higher consciousness. Maybe we are reincarnated. Some friends have gone to a woman here who is known as the white witch. Practically all the things she has said have come true, and this isn't in hindsight. Genuinely specific things. One girl was told she was a servant in Egyptian times and was locked in a tomb (alive) with some important personage. She is claustrophobic. I'm not sure how ghosts fit in to religon. I do believe in them, because I have felt and once saw some pretty strange thing. I'm really not bothered if you believe me or not.

I am just interested to know how people think the super natural fits in to religon?

This feels like an AA meeting. I'm a Catholic. I do not attend mass. I do not believe not believe in the Catholic Chruch as I think the pope is the biggest hypocrite to walk the earth.
That's quite a contradiction. You are NOT a Catholic. Catholics go to Mass and receive the Sacraments. You do neither and therefore are not Catholic.
I myself was born into a Catholic family and was raised a Catholic in Parochial schools, but I would never identify myself as one.

i am born a roman catholic, but i am avowedly atheist. you know what i hate, being who try to convince you your wrong for not believing in something. my gf prays for me every night to find true happpiness in god, so i tell her stop casue i am happy and she gets snotty. i really hate jahovahs thought. i dont need no god damn idiots disterbing my dreams.

Why are you even associating with some messed up person like her, then?

1/3 of the world is irreligious; don't burden yourself with some delusional, illogical, rude, and demeaning bitch. I understand that she must care about you (though as a Christian, she must love Jesus more), but honestly, as there is no such thing as "true love", solely "true happiness", why don't you find someone who can support you and make you feel happy, instead of guilt tripping you and attempting to convert/brainwash you?

I see that the clerics often abuses of their power to control the masses, and it has already been the cause of numerous humanitarian disasters. It is still OK if there is no "high degree" religious like the pope, but just priests, or if the priests are relativised, ie not seen as "the voice of God" like in many religions.

However, I must agree that you are not far from the truth, but keep in mind that don't plan to forbid clerics at any time - I just have the opinion that it is not good. Just like some people think it is not good to waste food, for exemple (I'm not comparing the 2 things, hm, just giving an exemple).
well i know what you mean about abuse of power. it is a problem in all areas of life where someone has great power over other people.

im just thinking that without SOME kind of hierarchy that an individuals religious belief would sink down to superstition and self-interest (i just finished reading a book about a mormon "fundamentalist" who got a personal revelation from god to kill his sister in law and neice. his lack of belief in the mormon hierarchy let him drift into a reallly bad belief system)

as an american, i certainly believe in the seperation of church and state. it makes me very nervous that our president is such a fundamentalist and that his most religious supporters seem to think he is going to usher in the final days. but i dont see a reasonable way of keeping religion out of politics without supressing religion altogether.

Just had to put in my two cents...

I see many, from formerly devout and noble nations (Im thinking particularly of France here, a Kingdom which lived under the rule of "His Most Christian Majesty" and was the bulwark of Catholic power en le monde), whose modern citizens seem to decry religion, most notable in their critique of Catholicism and to a larger extent Christianity itself.

It stuns me, and saddens me, to see once glorious Old Europe wallow in secular humanism, socialism, indeed the remnants of anti-semiticism and facism, and all other heretical, damned doctrines. Europe is under invasion by radical Islam, which seeks to level the Cathedrals of Almighty God! O France, where are your Martels now? When will you find another Bourbon? Damn the Regicide, and the bloody handed terrorists that usurped the right of His perogitive: your Sovereign Majesty's complete defence of the Ancien Regime?

I proudly take a stance behind my faith, and swear my devotion to Merciful Christ and His Vicar on Earth, John Paul II; for as long as Catholicism remains in the hearts and minds of le menu peuple, then God will triumph and deliever the West from the nest of perdition, sin, and pessimism it has become. Vive le Roi! Vive Louis!Te Deum, Laudamus, in excelsis! VIVAT REGUM MUNDORUM--UN FOI, UN ROI, UN LOI!

That's quite a contradiction. You are NOT a Catholic. Catholics go to Mass and receive the Sacraments. You do neither and therefore are not Catholic.
I myself was born into a Catholic family and was raised a Catholic in Parochial schools, but I would never identify myself as one.

Yes, he IS a catholic! Just because he hasnt gone to Mass in a while doesnt mean hes not catholic. When he goes to mass he recieves the Sacraments. I was raised Catholic too, ya know(although thankfully i havent had me first communion, so i dont have to make some sort of pledge of alleigance to god...)

That's quite a contradiction. You are NOT a Catholic. Catholics go to Mass and receive the Sacraments. You do neither and therefore are not Catholic.
I myself was born into a Catholic family and was raised a Catholic in Parochial schools, but I would never identify myself as one.


I do recognise that. I do see myself as a catholic. I know I don't take the sacrament cos I'm not in chruch and according to the 'rules' of the catholic chruch ya can't take the holy wafer unless you get it every week. If not you muct go to confession. I don't have time to go to confession. I don't believe that you have to confess that you haven't gone to mass to take the body of christ and all that stuff -is it even in the bible? Initally catholics were just supposed to preach about Jesus. I know there is a need for some head of the chruch, but no where in the bible does it call for actual chruches, vows of chastity etc. I suppose I follow my own version of catholicism..which to most people isn't very catholic but each to their own.

All religions, are all made up. There is no such thing as "God" or "Allah" or "El". People always has questions. But people can't answer them (sometimes). Thats when "God" enter. God created our world [Bible] in six (6) days. In the seventh (7) he rested, he had a long week... This is written in a book, The Bible. It is written in a book because, a long time ago, people were thinking on "how the world was created, what is universe etc", they had no answers to those fellow questions. They (he, she whatever) wrote their own story, about the world. Religions comes up when people cant' come up with answers. It is all bullshit. I hope that people will understand that, sometime in the nearest future. :)


Can you prove that? No, your statement is based on what you think happened a long time ago. So are religions.

Taoist myself. People have enough to worry about in this life without having to worry about the consequences of actions in this one on where they might go in the next. Taoism is about the only belief system out there that does not do that.


While Judaism does have an after life much of it is based on life in the physical world.

I'm a practising Muslim :)

Just had to put in my two cents...

I see many, from formerly devout and noble nations (Im thinking particularly of France here, a Kingdom which lived under the rule of "His Most Christian Majesty" and was the bulwark of Catholic power en le monde), whose modern citizens seem to decry religion, most notable in their critique of Catholicism and to a larger extent Christianity itself.

It stuns me, and saddens me, to see once glorious Old Europe wallow in secular humanism, socialism, indeed the remnants of anti-semiticism and facism, and all other heretical, damned doctrines. Europe is under invasion by radical Islam, which seeks to level the Cathedrals of Almighty God! O France, where are your Martels now? When will you find another Bourbon? Damn the Regicide, and the bloody handed terrorists that usurped the right of His perogitive: your Sovereign Majesty's complete defence of the Ancien Regime?

I proudly take a stance behind my faith, and swear my devotion to Merciful Christ and His Vicar on Earth, John Paul II; for as long as Catholicism remains in the hearts and minds of le menu peuple, then God will triumph and deliever the West from the nest of perdition, sin, and pessimism it has become. Vive le Roi! Vive Louis!Te Deum, Laudamus, in excelsis! VIVAT REGUM MUNDORUM--UN FOI, UN ROI, UN LOI!

i sure hope you're french

I suppose I follow my own version of catholicism..which to most people isn't very catholic but each to their own.
It's called Protestantism. Welcome to the club. ;)

No, seriously, though, I have the same problem. I believe in God, Jesus, the Bible, and all that stuff. But a lot of my beliefs on the secondary doctrines (e.g. Hell and Satan) aren't commonly accepted. Thankfully, those details aren't necessary for this life or the next. *happy dance*

Just had to put in my two cents...

I see many, from formerly devout and noble nations (Im thinking particularly of France here, a Kingdom which lived under the rule of "His Most Christian Majesty" and was the bulwark of Catholic power en le monde), whose modern citizens seem to decry religion, most notable in their critique of Catholicism and to a larger extent Christianity itself.

It stuns me, and saddens me, to see once glorious Old Europe wallow in secular humanism, socialism, indeed the remnants of anti-semiticism and facism, and all other heretical, damned doctrines. Europe is under invasion by radical Islam, which seeks to level the Cathedrals of Almighty God! O France, where are your Martels now? When will you find another Bourbon? Damn the Regicide, and the bloody handed terrorists that usurped the right of His perogitive: your Sovereign Majesty's complete defence of the Ancien Regime?

I proudly take a stance behind my faith, and swear my devotion to Merciful Christ and His Vicar on Earth, John Paul II; for as long as Catholicism remains in the hearts and minds of le menu peuple, then God will triumph and deliever the West from the nest of perdition, sin, and pessimism it has become. Vive le Roi! Vive Louis!Te Deum, Laudamus, in excelsis! VIVAT REGUM MUNDORUM--UN FOI, UN ROI, UN LOI!

In fact anti-semitism comes directly from christianism, because the jews are seen by some as "the deicide people". Religion in Europe promoted anti-semitism heavily, the lastest exemple was the refusal of the pope to condemn the genocide during WWII, while he knew it did happen. Humanism is not the remnant of any fascist doctrine, neither is socialism. (It is "une foi, un roi, une loi" and "du monde"). Don't forget also that the reasons religion is so depreciated are its alliance with the kings, and the taxes for the religious, which was called the "dime" because it represented 10% of the income of already very poor people.
With that money, the religious paid beautiful cathedrals, inquisition and cruisades that were theatres of terrible atrocities. Religious could also decide to excommunicate anyone, it was a terrible thing for one to be excommunicated, and it was a good way to control the people. Well, the USA never suffered these kind of things, it explains the differents views I guess :p


100 votes:
Higher power 10.00%

Christian - practicising 18.00%
Christian - not practicising 6.00%

Muslim - practicising 2.00%
Muslim - not practicising 0.0%

Jew - practicising 1.00%
Jew - not practicising 2.00%

Other 9.00%

Agnostic 20.00%
Atheist 32.00%

Like expected, we see a very uncommon distribution of the beliefs, I don't know any country with 52% of people do not believe in God ^^

It's called Protestantism. Welcome to the club. ;)

No, seriously, though, I have the same problem. I believe in God, Jesus, the Bible, and all that stuff. But a lot of my beliefs on the secondary doctrines (e.g. Hell and Satan) aren't commonly accepted. Thankfully, those details aren't necessary for this life or the next. *happy dance*

What are your veiws on hell and satan?

It's called Protestantism. Welcome to the club. ;)

*
It's all so clear now!! Ya as said already I did consider converting to Protestantism but too much work, would have to go to Sunday school. Had religion classes since I was 5 to 18 (am 19 now). I've had enough. Although I must say I did enjoy 5th and 6th year religion class. We studied all different forms of religon including stuff based on witch craft -which we weren't actually allowed study cos one of the owners of my secondary school a little old religous lady is all for the 'one true catholic god'. it was good fun. We were also taught to question gods existance, and ask our selves do we really believe in god etc. It really got me thinking!

If you base your life on naturalism, i.e we all came about via evolution you should rethink that entire idea.

Evolution is statistically impossible, it defys the second law of thermodynamics and cause and effect.

I suppose I'm a Christian (Methodist). I go to church every week, but right now I'm more concerned with studying the Bible and finding ways to live my every day life rather than all the "You must not eat meat on Fridays!" rules and such.

Atheist-I'm not superstitious.

If you base your life on naturalism, i.e we all came about via evolution you should rethink that entire idea.

Evolution is statistically impossible, it defys the second law of thermodynamics and cause and effect.


have fun there (http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html), you'll find why you are wrong, and stop trying to change the subject please.

What are your veiws on hell and satan?

Thats a very interesting question. What film was it that Gabriel Byrn as the devil said the greatest trick of the devil was making the world not exist? The idea of hell I think is where a lot of people stop beliving. It does seem a little bit too much of propaganda to have this fallen angel who leaves in a hot and fiery place and if you are evil then you go and visit him? Is there a form of hell in muslim and buddist religon? That means almost everyone would end up there. How exactly do you define an evil deed. Stealing was once considered evil. -Is it now? The Christian message is that god will forgive all sins -even those of rapists and child molesters? If they don't deserve to end up in hell(if it does exist) then who does?

I suppose I'm a Christian (Methodist). I go to church every week, but right now I'm more concerned with studying the Bible and finding ways to live my every day life rather than all the "You must not eat meat on Fridays!" rules and such.


You are allowed to eat meat anyday, and drink wine - all those stupid rules are just made up.

All you have to do is:

Love the lord your God with all you heart, soul and mind
And love your neihbour as yourself.


People just make up things like "dont drink wine." Alcohol is good for you in moderation. The bible just says "dont get drunk."

Im Buddist, and so is my mom :)

have fun there (http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-qa.html), you'll find why you are wrong, and stop trying to change the subject please.

Well said.
PS I love your name. RA,RA Rasputin..can't remeber the rest of the song. The man was a crazy legend it took like 6? attempts to kill him. God must have been on his side!!!!

A sin is somthing that dishounors God.

The pharasies sin's were going to church and basically bragging about themesleves.

I think hell is real,

You can chose Gods way, or Satans way. By sinning your telling God to go away, and when you go to hell that when God finally tells you you can have it your way and you are separated from him forever.

Im Buddist, and so is my mom :)

agnostic. but i've always been fascinated by buddhism. what exactly do you do? how do you know when you've acheived enlightenment? what exactly is enlightenment? when you are at peace with yourself? just curious.

Since many threads here are about religion, I wanted to see what are the beliefs here.
Feel free to explain what do you exactly believe in if none of the propositions I made correspond to your beliefs.

By practicising, I mean "regular practice". For exemple, someone who goes to church once per week is practicising; someone who goes once per month is limit, someone who only follows some ceremonies like marriage is not practicising.
well, i guess i can't answer, since my agnosticism means that i don't go to church or observe any spiritual rituals or holidays. i guess that means my beliefs on religion aren't as important as the beliefs of people who practice such rituals.

either that, or it means that i am good enough at being an agnostic that i don't need to practice :P.

Atheist. I have yet to see anything even slightly convincing in religion, hence my atheism.

All you have to do is:

Love the lord your God with all you heart, soul and mind
And love your neihbour as yourself.

Finally someone sees the forest through the trees.

A sin is somthing that dishounors God.

The pharasies sin's were going to church and basically bragging about themesleves.

I think hell is real,

You can chose Gods way, or Satans way. By sinning your telling God to go away, and when you go to hell that when God finally tells you you can have it your way and you are separated from him forever.

I'm not being sarcastic but then we're all screwed. There is no mention of chruches in the bible. There was on preaching etc. By bragging how do you mean? Like about there achievements? or not going ot mass? Again not being smart but how does bragging dishonour God. I know you can say we should do stuff for good? But isn't that dishonouring god, cos ya want to get on his good side. Over the past 4 years I have accomplished loads. (Not bragging) more than I thought I would 6 years ago. I did this to improve myself, to help others am I not allowed brag a tiny bit?

Just out of curiosity .... is it possible to be a non-practicing Muslim?

Just out of curiosity .... is it possible to be a non-practicing Muslim?

Yeah I think so. If someone where to ask a non practising muslim what is their religous back ground?

Thats a very interesting question. What film was it that Gabriel Byrn as the devil said the greatest trick of the devil was making the world not exist? The idea of hell I think is where a lot of people stop beliving. It does seem a little bit too much of propaganda to have this fallen angel who leaves in a hot and fiery place and if you are evil then you go and visit him? Is there a form of hell in muslim and buddist religon? That means almost everyone would end up there. How exactly do you define an evil deed. Stealing was once considered evil. -Is it now? The Christian message is that god will forgive all sins -even those of rapists and child molesters? If they don't deserve to end up in hell(if it does exist) then who does?
Islam has a form of hell, but the concept doesn't make much sense in the Buddhist context - likewise heaven. Buddhism is about progressing towards enlightenment through reincarnations and correct living. You don't stop until you reach enlightenment. Their mythology has all the usual trimmings, but it's stuff to get through on the way to truth.

Just out of curiosity .... is it possible to be a non-practicing Muslim?
It is, but it makes you a very bad Muslim. Their religious duties (prayer, pilgramage, charity &c) are laid down in the Koran.

Yeah I think so. If someone where to ask a non practising muslim what is their religous back ground?

Hrmmm ... well, it's probably part of my ignorance, but I always figured Islam was about living a certain way and loving Allah.

It just struck me that a "non-practicing Muslim" would be like a person saying, "I'm Christian, but I don't believe in Jesus".

*shrug*

It's all so clear now!! Ya as said already I did consider converting to Protestantism but too much work, would have to go to Sunday school. Had religion classes since I was 5 to 18 (am 19 now). I've had enough. Although I must say I did enjoy 5th and 6th year religion class. We studied all different forms of religon including stuff based on witch craft -which we weren't actually allowed study cos one of the owners of my secondary school a little old religous lady is all for the 'one true catholic god'. it was good fun. We were also taught to question gods existance, and ask our selves do we really believe in god etc. It really got me thinking!
However, depending on which version of Protestantism you go for, you may be surprised to find yourself saying "I believe in one Catholic Church, ..." when reciting their Creed. ;)

It is, but it makes you a very bad Muslim. Their religious duties (prayer, pilgramage, charity &c) are laid down in the Koran.

Ah ... okie dokie. Could a person who was not living a Muslim life really call themselves Muslim? I would think that wouldn't be something to be taken lightly.

The religious discipline and spiritual devotion of even the "average" Muslim has always been something astounding and beautiful to me and I guess I never figured you could call yourself Muslim without doing your best to live a Muslim life.

Hrmmm ... well, it's probably part of my ignorance, but I always figured Islam was about living a certain way and loving Allah.

It just struck me that a "non-practicing Muslim" would be like a person saying, "I'm Christian, but I don't believe in Jesus".

*shrug*

It's actually baisically be a good person, dont eat pork, give to the poor AND love Allah and everyone else.

Ah ... okie dokie. Could a person who was not living a Muslim life really call themselves Muslim? I would think that wouldn't be something to be taken lightly.

The religious discipline and spiritual devotion of even the "average" Muslim has always been something astounding and beautiful to me and I guess I never figured you could call yourself Muslim without doing your best to live a Muslim life.
I think they would. I certainly have friends that do. Given that the alternative is apostasy, and Islam takes a very dim view of that (ask Salman Rushdie) ....

But you're right, it is a very ascetic religion at root. Unfortunately, for me, the discipline and devotion find their complement in dogma, which I never like to see.

No no no. Islam is, in my opinion, more sensible than most forms of Christianity. In Christianity, believing in God is enough. Jesus will take away your sins just cause you ask; you go from being a child raper to a child with one Communion and telling your priest. In Islam, God OWNS you. There is no you; you live for God. You spend your life in God's service, as his servant. And because his work is man, you serve mankind. For your faith, love, and service to God, He will bring you up by His side, etc. That's my main beef with Christianity; as they say in the Eucharist, "just say the word and I shall be healed." With one word, all of your hates and sins are washed away, with no effort. You can be the most evil person in the world and go to Heaven just by being "forgiven" moments before death. In Islam, you pay for the sins, perhaps better explained as the violations of your contract, in God's service. He OWNS you; you disobeyed him. You pay.

That makes sense.

If you are caught commiting a crime, you are punished. You can't just "ask for forgiveness." I think that a synthesis of the Christian and Muslim ideas is the best path, actually; Christ can show the way to forgiveness, but it is a long dark road through the soul that HURTS. Your mind is a dark place, and sins are not present in the Kingdom of God. You must cleanse yourself; and you pay for your sins. Purgatory is like that, except it only applies to mortal sins you have commited and those you have not washed away with Christblood. There are too many ways to bypass Purgatory while still being evil in Christianity. If religions, instead of your own strict standards, are to be trusted, then intelligent people can always find loopholes. Like the ancient Catholic loophole of graft, where you could pay money to get into Heaven. Dogma is a delicious thing.

Pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic

No no no. Islam is, in my opinion, more sensible than most forms of Christianity. In Christianity, believing in God is enough. Jesus will take away your sins just cause you ask; you go from being a child raper to a child with one Communion and telling your priest. In Islam, God OWNS you. There is no you; you live for God. You spend your life in God's service, as his servant. And because his work is man, you serve mankind. For your faith, love, and service to God, He will bring you up by His side, etc. That's my main beef with Christianity; as they say in the Eucharist, "just say the word and I shall be healed." With one word, all of your hates and sins are washed away, with no effort. You can be the most evil person in the world and go to Heaven just by being "forgiven" moments before death. In Islam, you pay for the sins, perhaps better explained as the violations of your contract, in God's service. He OWNS you; you disobeyed him. You pay.

That makes sense.

If you are caught commiting a crime, you are punished. You can't just "ask for forgiveness." I think that a synthesis of the Christian and Muslim ideas is the best path, actually; Christ can show the way to forgiveness, but it is a long dark road through the soul that HURTS. Your mind is a dark place, and sins are not present in the Kingdom of God. You must cleanse yourself; and you pay for your sins. Purgatory is like that, except it only applies to mortal sins you have commited and those you have not washed away with Christblood. There are too many ways to bypass Purgatory while still being evil in Christianity. If religions, instead of your own strict standards, are to be trusted, then intelligent people can always find loopholes. Like the ancient Catholic loophole of graft, where you could pay money to get into Heaven. Dogma is a delicious thing.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the point you're making, about how the respective religions deal with sin. My point about dogma was more to do with definitions of right behaviour being set in stone according to the time and place the Koran was first transcribed. That's the bit I have difficulty with in terms of the theology of Islam.

Ever notice that many religions have similar creation stories? I'll leave that up to you to interpret.

OK look at the Christain creation myth, Humans feed on animals and come last, animals feed on plants and come after plants. Now it doesn't fit the evalution model exactly but bearing in mind 8 thousand years ago we didn't have telecopes etc and its clear that whoever wrote the creation story in genisis simply took a good look at how the world worked and thought "If this needs that then that must have come first". All creation storys are written the same way - any wonder they're similar?

If you base your life on naturalism, i.e we all came about via evolution you should rethink that entire idea.

Evolution is statistically impossible, it defys the second law of thermodynamics and cause and effect.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html#thermo
And evolution IS cause and effect!

Now I'm a (practing) Satanist (as in Church of Satan, Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible etc). Thus I've voted Atheist on the poll because all Satanists are Atheists.

OK look at the Christain creation myth, Humans feed on animals and come last, animals feed on plants and come after plants. Now it doesn't fit the evalution model exactly but bearing in mind 8 thousand years ago we didn't have telecopes etc and its clear that whoever wrote the creation story in genisis simply took a good look at how the world worked and thought "If this needs that then that must have come first". All creation storys are written the same way - any wonder they're similar?

Have any conclusive evidence?

The point about it defying cause and effect - is that how can a small cause create a big effect? - (how can a butterfly create a tidal wave?)

How can us - humans have arisen from a less smarter form of life?

Besides according to the theory of evolution we arose from random mutations and natural selection and adaptation. Almost all mutations are ressecive - (that basically means that they have a bad effect - eg sickle cell aneamia)
Which means that the organism would die!!!

I'm not being sarcastic but then we're all screwed. There is no mention of chruches in the bible. There was on preaching etc. By bragging how do you mean? Like about there achievements? or not going ot mass? Again not being smart but how does bragging dishonour God. I know you can say we should do stuff for good? But isn't that dishonouring god, cos ya want to get on his good side. Over the past 4 years I have accomplished loads. (Not bragging) more than I thought I would 6 years ago. I did this to improve myself, to help others am I not allowed brag a tiny bit?

Here is what I mean about the Pharasies:

Mark chapter 12 vs 38-40

As Jesus was teaching, he said:
Guard against the teachers of the Law of Moses! They love to walk around in long robes and be greeted in the market. They like the front seats in meeting places and the best seats in banquets. But they cheat widows out of their homes and pray long prayers just to show off. They will be punished most of all.

How can us - humans have arisen from a less smarter form of life?


"less smarter"? Apparently, some of us don't. ;) :D

I personally am agnostic, though I'm a bit curious about various religions. My mother is Christian, though in a vague New Age-y way, my dad is Buddhist, and my girlfriend is Neopagan (which can really be a lot of things, but I won't get into that)... I personally find religions and philosophies to be fascinating things to look at, though I don't subscribe to any particular one. I just read, and occasionally sacrifice a scorpion or other insect that crawls into my room in bizzare, spur of the moment rituals for no particular purpose, to no particular being.


Now I'm a (practing) Satanist (as in Church of Satan, Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible etc). Thus I've voted Atheist on the poll because all Satanists are Atheists.
*Ahem* What of Yezedis, Setians, or other non-LaVeyan Satanic groups? It strikes me as ironic that Satanists in their attempt to escape from judeo-christian concepts, then go doing similar things, claiming that all others than their specific group aren't real Satanists, and that they're the only real ones.

Now I'm a (practing) Satanist (as in Church of Satan, Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible etc). Thus I've voted Atheist on the poll because all Satanists are Atheists.

Um, no, they aren't. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any deity, so how can a Satanist be an atheist? Take a look at this definition of atheism: http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist1.htm and this one: http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist4.htm

Anyway, I'm American and I'm an atheist. I was baptized Catholic, had my First Communion, even went to Catholic elementary school (my parents thought it would be safer...it wasn't necessarily, but that's got nothing to do with this topic), yet I can't remember a time when I actually believed in God or any god or goddess. It's like I had an inate disbelief, if that's even possible.

I've got no problem with religion, so long as I'm left in peace to believe (or disbelieve, as the case may be) as I please...as everyone should be allowed to :)

Um, no, they aren't. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any deity, so how can a Satanist be an atheist?
I imagine he/she feels that to be a Satanist is to be against God. I, however, agree with your take on this.

Um, no, they aren't. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any deity, so how can a Satanist be an atheist?


Though I'm not a Satanist, I have read LaVey's works and can answer that for you. LaVeyan satanism is more a mislabel, at least from what's written in their Satanic Bible. It's really more of a belief in the world of the flesh, and their concept of Satan isn't the Christian one of some evil being (they just use that imagery to mock christians with), they more tend to think of that as a label to apply to forces of entropy, natural selection, etc. At least, some of them did, but enough of them didn't that they've split off to form their own different satanic, or setian, or whatever, organizations.

Ahh, here's a link for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism. To quote from there...
Satanism is a religious or philosophical movement centered around Satan or another entity identified with Satan, or centered around the forces of nature, particularly human nature, represented by Satan as an archetype.
LaVeyan satanism would fall into the bolded part of that.

Though I'm not a Satanist, I have read LaVey's works and can answer that for you. LaVeyan satanism is more a mislabel, at least from what's written in their Satanic Bible. It's really more of a belief in the world of the flesh, and their concept of Satan isn't the Christian one of some evil being (they just use that imagery to mock christians with), they more tend to think of that as a label to apply to forces of entropy, natural selection, etc. At least, some of them did, but enough of them didn't that they've split off to form their own different satanic, or setian, or whatever, organizations.

Ahh, here's a link for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism. To quote from there...

Satanism is a religious or philosophical movement centered around Satan or another entity identified with Satan, or centered around the forces of nature, particularly human nature, represented by Satan as an archetype.

LaVeyan satanism would fall into the bolded part of that.

Ah, thanks :) Still isn't atheism, but I think I understand what you're saying. I knew that not all Satanists worshipped the Christian concept of Satan, but I didn't realize that some didn't worship Satan as a deity at all.

hmm... y r there so many atheists on here?

So far, almost 70% of people belongs to no religion. I'd like to know what those who voted "others" believe in. Do you have your own home-made religion, or are you buddists, or...?

As an Other, I am a student of philosophical Taosim.

So far, almost 70% of people belongs to no religion. I'd like to know what those who voted "others" believe in. Do you have your own home-made religion, or are you buddists, or...?


Quite simple really. I decided some time ago that the idea of a god(s) is just a representation of the laws of physics that control everything. And to me, the idea of asingle god is the same as believing in the Unified Feild Theory. Of course I don't believe in the UFT, but merely the many laws of physics (And Chemestry, but it's still the same thing) all working together to keep stuff in balance. So with that, I just chose a religion that fit my beliefs in science, and that I liked, and went with it. Of course I don;t believe in a higher power, unless you count mathematical equations as a "Higher power". But what's the fun of believing something if you can't have fun and give personas to the laws?

I'm Mormon. And Mormons are christian.

I believe that something had to have made this, but I do not believe in the teachings of apocryphal literature. It's not that I can't decide which is right, for I have already decided against them. Sure, I like think that these morals can help dumber people come to conclusions. I, however, prefer to think for myself. Some might call me a DEIST. Call me that if you want.

"God helps them that help themselves."

I'm a Christian Humanist. Sort of a Christian Agnostic, as in I am unable to decide whether the stories of Christ's resurrection and virgin birth are real or symbolic.

Either way, I believe that the Bible and Christianity teach many good morals and values which we can apply to our lives. However I am a proud social liberal also and see no need to force these values and morals.

I for one, am agnostic, but I don't see it as a religion, merely an adjective (pertaining to "one who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God").

By that definition, I believe it is possible for an agnostic Christian (or any other God-based religion), because being able to know/prove God exists is not the same as, or as important as, having faith that God exists.
[edit: speaking of which, I notice JRV's post...]

Personally, I live by the set of eight virtues as outlined in the Ultima series; that's a religion, right? :cool:

I'm Mormon. And Mormons are christian.

Actually, they [i]aren't[i/]. Took.

Practicing Roman Catholic. As in, I go to Mass every single week, sometimes twice. Anyway, now to debunk some previous statements!

I'm a Christian Humanist. Sort of a Christian Agnostic, as in I am unable to decide whether the stories of Christ's resurrection and virgin birth are real or symbolic.

Little thing called faith, m'friend. Believe me, theres nothing outlandish about either one. I've seen weirder things in my rather short lifetime. If you can accept that this world has some meaning, then its only one step to accepting those two things. But I won't preach.

Have any conclusive evidence?

Alright, there are so many problems with that. Lets start. Evidence is not needed. Those stories, contrary to popular belief amongst fundamentalist Christians, need not be taken literally. Some of us hold that there was, like Aquinas said, a "first mover" that created the thing we know as the Universe: eg, the Big Bang. Aside from that, the whole empiricist idea will be the death of society. By your logic, if I don't see something, if I cannot use my own sense to describe it, then it is not real. Rubbish. I have never been to Hawaii; how do I know it exists? Pictures, other people's say so? Oh, but the so-called "evidence" could have been fabricated, and the people could be lying! The atheistic double-standard disgusts me. There are some things one must take on faith, and religion is a simple extension of this. Yeesh. I hate people.

Yet another Catholic here.

I would say I'm a not-often-practicing Christian who has frequent fits of atheism, if that makes any sense...

Actually, [Mormons] aren't [Christians].
Umm, what are they then? As far as I understood, Christians were comprised of 4 groups: Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

A Christian is someone who believes Jesus is son of god, yes? So wouldn't Mormons also be Christians?

Umm, what are they then? As far as I understood, Christians were comprised of 4 groups: Catholics, Protestants, Mormons, and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

A Christian is someone who believes Jesus is son of god, yes? So wouldn't Mormons also be Christians?

Yeah, that's probably correct. "Christian" is a broad category. Protestants and Catholics practice religion in very different ways. Still, they both believe in Jesus Christ. Hence, they're Christians.

The only thing is the idea of heresy. If you're a heretic, you aren't technically a Christian even if you think yourself one. I'm absolutely certain that Protestants aren't considered heretics, but I'm not quite as sure about Mormons. They have some ideas in their faith that might qualify them as heretics.

Yeah, that's probably correct. "Christian" is a broad category. Protestants and Catholics practice religion in very different ways. Still, they both believe in Jesus Christ. Hence, they're Christians.

The only thing is the idea of heresy. If you're a heretic, you aren't technically a Christian even if you think yourself one. I'm absolutely certain that Protestants aren't considered heretics, but I'm not quite as sure about Mormons. They have some ideas in their faith that might qualify them as heretics.
Protestants generally don't consider Catholics to be Christians either. :p

Protestants generally don't consider Catholics to be Christians either. :p

Uh, part of my point was that Catholics consider Protestants Christians.

On the side, do you know why exactly Protestants think that? I've never heard the arguement.

Uncaring.

The purpose of life is to live. The purpose of God (in most scripture) is in regard to an afterlife. I care not what God is. I only care that today I am able to enjoy consciousness.

Protestants generally don't consider Catholics to be Christians either. :p

A man was was walking across a bridge one day, and he saw another man standing on the edge, about to jump off and commit suicide. I immediately ran over and said "Stop! Don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. The man said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" "Like what?" "Well ... are you religious or atheist?" "Religious." "Me too! Are you Muslim, Christian or Jewish?" "Muslim." "Me too! Sunni or Shiite?" "Sunni." "Me too! Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi or Maliki?" "Hanafi." "Wow! Me too! Do you follow Sheikh Fulaan al Fullani or Sheikh Kaza Kazah?" "Sheikh Fulaan al Fullani." To which he said, "What?!! Die, heretic scum!" and pushed him off.

:D :D :D

Uh, part of my point was that Catholics consider Protestants Christians.
I was raised Catholic, and this is probably true. I believe Protestants are referred to as misguided Christians, meaning they can still be brought back to the true one church. Meh.

On the side, do you know why exactly Protestants think that? I've never heard the arguement.
Probably has to do with Catholics worshipping statues and Mary, and praying to saints, and putting men (priests, bishops, and the Pope) before God and scripture.

I was raised Catholic, and this is probably true. I believe Protestants are referred to as misguided Christians, meaning they can still be brought back to the true one church. Meh.

I obviously can't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure most Catholics have given up on Protestants. There's way too many other fish to fry.

Probably has to do with Catholics worshipping statues and Mary, and praying to saints, and putting men (priests, bishops, and the Pope) before God and scripture.

Yeah, I thought as much. Putting men before God and scripture is the only reason where they could put up a substantial arguement, though. Catholics do not worship statues or Mary. Although it's said that the Church prays to saints and Mary, that's a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say that you pray with Saints and Mary. So to say Catholics aren't Christians for those reasons (besides the priests and Pope one) only displays common misunderstandings of the faith to me.

Sorry about the rant. Thanks for the info.

I obviously can't speak for everybody, but I'm pretty sure most Catholics have given up on Protestants. There's way too many other fish to fry.



Yeah, I thought as much. Putting men before God and scripture is the only reason where they could put up a substantial arguement, though. Catholics do not worship statues or Mary. Although it's said that the Church prays to saints and Mary, that's a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say that you pray with Saints and Mary. So to say Catholics aren't Christians for those reasons (besides the priests and Pope one) only displays common misunderstandings of the faith to me.

Sorry about the rant. Thanks for the info.
Just for the record, I don't think most Protestants do think Catholics are not Christians. Maybe some of the more fundamentalist varients might argue they are not true Christians, because of the trappings of Catholic worship, but that's about the extent of it.

However, depending on which version of Protestantism you go for, you may be surprised to find yourself saying "I believe in one Catholic Church, ..." when reciting their Creed. ;)


Eh, are you sure. I think that maybe you wandered in to the wrong Chruch?

Hrmmm ... well, it's probably part of my ignorance, but I always figured Islam was about living a certain way and loving Allah.

It just struck me that a "non-practicing Muslim" would be like a person saying, "I'm Christian, but I don't believe in Jesus".

*shrug*
That would make you a Jew!! Which are a part of the Christian Religon????

Protestants are catholic 'cause Catholic meaneth Universal. NOT Roman Catholic, though. I am a practicing converted Roman Catholic. I am neither woman hating (well there was this girl in my old class once…), nor unforgiving. Neither is my priest a pervert. Am I in the right church (sarcasm)?

It shouldn't say: "I believe there is a higher power, but cannot decide which religion is right", but "I believe there is a higher power and think every religion is dead wrong" :D

any sect that subscribes to the nicean creed (i believe in god the almighty maker of heaven and earth etc) is christian. this includes roman catholics, orthodox, and the vast majority of protestant churches. other denominations that believe in jesus as the messiah but not every single article of faith contained in the nicean creed, are heretics. (not that there is anything wrong with that) this includes mormons, jehovah's witnesses, christian scientists (maybe). for example, the jehova's witnesses dont believe in the trinity; that part alone makes them heritics.

so while catholics and baptists go at christianity from different angles, emphasizing different part of the gospels (infant baptism, justification by faith, reverence of the saints) when it comes down to basic beliefs, they are the same.

the mormons and JWs believe things that no other christian denominations would ever agree with. this doesnt make them wrong, or bad or non-christian. it just puts them in a different category of christian.

FYI, if there's nothing wrong with that, you may need a word other than "heretic." That thing's WAY too loaded. May I recommend "heterodox?"

That would make you a Jew!! Which are a part of the Christian Religon????

Other way around. Christianity sprang from Judaism after Judaism had already been around for a couple thousand years.

If you accept a Prophet beyond the time of Malachai - who is supposed to be the last Prophet, according to Tanakh (the Jewish Bible) - then you lose Jewish status.

So, you can be - for example - a Jewish Buddhist (Buddha predeceased Malachai by 200 years and the Buddha can be considered to be a Prophet), but you cannot be a Jewish Christian or Jewish Muslim.

Eh, are you sure. I think that maybe you wandered in to the wrong Chruch?
... We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. ....

From the Nicene Creed; taken from the order of service for eucharist at an Anglican church (Anglican church = Episcopalian Church in America = protestants).

Alternatively:

.... I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, ...

From the Apostles' Creed, the other creed adhered to by Anglican/Episcopalian churches.

Don't know about other protestant denominations, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had the same creed underneath it all. The differences between them and catholics are more about practice than belief.

Funny old world, innit?

FYI, if there's nothing wrong with that, you may need a word other than "heretic." That thing's WAY too loaded. May I recommend "heterodox?"
it is a rather loaded word but since we've stopped burning people at the stake for heresy *I* say "if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen"

So, you can be - for example - a Jewish Buddhist (Buddha predeceased Malachai by 200 years and the Buddha can be considered to be a Prophet), but you cannot be a Jewish Christian or Jewish Muslim.

Really??A Jewish Buddhist? If you don't mind me prying are you jewish that you know that? A jewish muslim ya I get. What I ment (cos I'm great at articulation) was they are kinda of the same mind. This is a huge comparison I know.It made sense in my head!! I know Chrisitanity sprang from Judaism, so yeah I guess your right there are no jewish christians.

I've never been what you could consider a "faith-based" individual and I consider that one of my (very few) shortcomings. I have a million ideas a day, but unless it is really solid, I don't put much into it....could that be why I can't extend a relationship longer than 3 months??? :headbang: Anywho, I totally respect anyone that can base their life on an "idea" - faith is an amazing thing.

I've never been what you could consider a "faith-based" individual and I consider that one of my (very few) shortcomings. I have a million ideas a day, but unless it is really solid, I don't put much into it....could that be why I can't extend a relationship longer than 3 months??? :headbang: Anywho, I totally respect anyone that can base their life on an "idea" - faith is an amazing thing.

I don't have faith either. :(

Really??A Jewish Buddhist? If you don't mind me prying are you jewish that you know that? A jewish muslim ya I get. What I ment (cos I'm great at articulation) was they are kinda of the same mind. This is a huge comparison I know.It made sense in my head!! I know Chrisitanity sprang from Judaism, so yeah I guess your right there are no jewish christians.

Yep. Even went to Rabbinical school and was granted semikhah (that means I'm a Rabbi). However, I broke from Judaism years ago and re-embraced my Pagan roots as a Caddo Indian. Even according to the most Orthodox of Jewish law, I am still Jewish and can claim my place in Israel. A Jewish Pagan is me.

Judaism and Islam have a huge amount of similarities which often surprise people because the average Joe seems to think Muslims and Jews genetically hate each other. They don't ... it's mostly a land dispute between a certain group of Jewish people and a certain group of Muslim people. Judaism and Islam both hold a special relationship with God (El' to the Jews, Allah to the Muslims) through special rituals and prayers and by living life a certain way. However, the relationship is personal and requires no priestly or physical intervention.

Judaism and Christianity have almost nothing in common anymore. In Christianity's early days, they had a lot in common, but much of that has vanished to the ages. In the early days, the Jesus days, Jesus and all his little helper elves (disciples, if you will) were all Jewish, studied Torah, kept kosher, obeyed the 613 mitzvot (laws laid out in Torah), went to Temple, made sacrifice (animal sacrifice), and lived a very Jewish life. However, Jesus never ordained a Gentile and, thus, Paul's religion had very little appeal to non-Jews of the time, so Paul wrote some letters to various places explaining how to prove to the Gentiles that they were actually living a Jewish life - whether they liked it or not - but their impure bloodlines required them to be Christian instead. The gamble worked and Christianity slowly became what it is today. Christianity is based on the idea that mankind needs an arbitrator between man and God (which is why they are required to speak to God only in Jesus' name) but such a thing is blasphemy to practicing Jews and Muslims.

Anyway, I've babbled enough.

I put other. Though I am a Christian, I'm also a Wiccan. I have very mixed beliefs. And before any of you jump on me saying that I can't be both, yes, I can. I do not believe in multiple Gods persay, but in a single God that has many faces or incarnations. I believe Jesus Christ is my savior and all of that, but I also follow several Wiccan, or pagan, beliefs.

I'm just very unique, though there are others like me.

Now I'm a (practing) Satanist (as in Church of Satan, Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible etc). Thus I've voted Atheist on the poll because all Satanists are Atheists.

Does that really make you atheist. I thought that Satan was a god in some way or another. Just wondering

there are no jewish christians.


Your forgetting Jews for Jesus. Of course many Jews such as myself dont recognize them as real Jews.

Uh, part of my point was that Catholics consider Protestants Christians.

On the side, do you know why exactly Protestants think that? I've never heard the arguement.

The two main reason stems from the time of Reformation.

1 - Protestantism believes that only way to salvation is through having faith in Jesus Christ as the savior.

The Roman Catholic church teaches that one must have faith in Jesus and practice "good works" - (ie, do Catholic sacraments and acts like charity, etc).

While Protestants believe that things like charity are good to do, they do not believe that doing any good deeds is necessary for salvation, as no good deed is good enough to make one perfect enough to enter Heaven (just faith can do that). This point was made a further reason for further contention when the Roman Catholic church declared that non-Christians can become virtuous through good works to enter Heaven.

2- Protestants believe that truth comes from the scriptures alone (ie, the Bible is infallible). Roman Catholics believe that the Church, headed by the Pope, is the arbitrar of the Scriptures through the will of God (ie the Pope is infallible). So some Protestants interpret this to mean that Catholics have "turned away" from the Bible.

My personal spiritual inclinations lean heavily toward philosophical Taoism.

I'm not being sarcastic but then we're all screwed.

I realize I'm a coupla pages late in responding to this, but what the heck, I'm doing it anyway. Yes, yes we are all screwed, 'cept for one thing: Jesus Christ. No human is perfect, we all sin. Sin deserves death. Therefore, we all deserve to die. God, in his infinite love, gave up his son to die in our place-basically, a sacrifice. All we have to do is accept his gift of salvation to be saved. That's the basis of all Christianity.

And to Crossman: You know, one of my best friends is also Christian and Wiccan.

Responding to the topic question:
I am a Taoist, I believe in a higher way, I make no attempts to personify or bring it down to human terms. I hold contemplation of nature and the world as an important way for me to develop spiritually and as a human. I hold morality to be a strictly personal manner. I will live the change I wish to see, but in no way will I attempt to enforce it on others through legislation or by condemnation of a "minority's" customs.

It is very interesting for me to see the bickering over what makes a Christian a Christian. Is it not simply following the teachings of your Jesus Christ?

And to Crossman: You know, one of my best friends is also Christian and Wiccan.

Cool.

See? I said I wasn't the only one.

It is very interesting for me to see the bickering over what makes a Christian a Christian. Is it not simply following the teachings of your Jesus Christ?

You would think it would be that simple. There are so many distinctions between faiths now however that it is never easy to understand what a person believes when they say they are a "Christian" now. There seems to be the need for the seperate classifications now, where each belief represents a new faith, and each new faith has people in it that believe different things. There is no "christian" religion anymore.

I realize I'm a coupla pages late in responding to this, but what the heck, I'm doing it anyway. Yes, yes we are all screwed, 'cept for one thing: Jesus Christ. No human is perfect, we all sin. Sin deserves death. Therefore, we all deserve to die. God, in his infinite love, gave up his son to die in our place-basically, a sacrifice. All we have to do is accept his gift of salvation to be saved. That's the basis of all Christianity.

And to Crossman: You know, one of my best friends is also Christian and Wiccan.

I know some Christians who don't believe in Jesus's divinity or his ability to sacrifice himself to expiate sin. They do believe, however, that the way he lived his life is the best example to follow in order to make themselves and the world a better place. They justify the label Christian by claiming it means just following Christ's example. This definition fits linguisitic rules. Just because other people who call themeselves Christians may not agree with this interpretation doesn't mean anyone has the right to tell these people that they can't be called Christians if the want to be called Christians.

I am a 'practicing' christian. I do not believe that to go to church, and say a prayer every day means that you are a christian. Pracising means you live your life by the bible, and not by the world. Any one who thinks that going to church gets you into heaven is completely wrong!

"I am the way, the truth and the life. no one comes to the father, except through me." John 14:6

That's what it says in the bible. There is no way to get in to heaven , except giving your life to god, no matter how often you go to church.

I have a cat. :)

For those of you who want to know, she is an atheist, anticlerical cat.

Practicing Christian (for the most part)

i'm a piist. It is a small religeon/cult thing of about 6 people who worship pi and The Other One, creator of all numbers.

I am a practising christian. To get more specific, Catholic.