NationStates Jolt Archive

I've seen several posts on here which assert that "things happen for a reason," or which state that "there is no meaning."

Which is it? Can you defend your position? Is the universe essentially random, or is there some sort of purposefullness to everything ... or something in between?

Unable to Determine. Not enought Data.

:confused: Unable to determine :confused:

Its all utterly random! Besides as soon as you start talking about meaning its not long before god comes into it and there's no shortage of threads about that...

I would say that, due to entropy, there is almost "anti-purposefullness," because the minute anything gets created, the forces of the universe begin to destroy it.

There is no order or meaning in the Universe.

My personal take on this:

Although there seems to be order in the universe, I don't think it's possible to say with any degree of certainty that there is purpose to that order. I would pick "Something in between."

I believe in the power and meaning of Words, there is no power and meaning in chance.

I would speculate that the universe is completely random. The reason for this is that if the universe was purposeful, then everything in it would be purely useful and utilitarian; everything would have a function.
Of course, in reality, the universe contains many things that do not have a function. Life, for example has no real function except to exist; we do not add to the integrity and survival of the universe.

I would speculate that the universe is completely random. The reason for this is that if the universe was purposeful, then everything in it would be purely useful and utilitarian; everything would have a function.
Of course, in reality, the universe contains many things that do not have a function. Life, for example has no real function except to exist; we do not add to the integrity and survival of the universe.

More insight into your thinking on this would be greatly appreciated.

1. Why do you think that pupose implies utilitarianism?

2. What things in the universe do not have a "function," and how do you know they don't?

3. Why do you believe that life adds nothing to "the integrity and survival of the universe?"

I've seen several posts on here which assert that "things happen for a reason," or which state that "there is no meaning."

Which is it? Can you defend your position? Is the universe essentially random, or is there some sort of purposefullness to everything ... or something in between?

Something in between.

If by "purposefullness" you mean intelligent, created design then no. It is random. I believe the universe is self-organized from the randomness of all possibility and energies react together in a cause and effect pattern according to the shape of that organization (which could possibly eventually change the overall organizing pattern although that would take an extremely unique combination of forces acting according to the established physical laws set forth in the current organization scheme).

Just because something doesn't happen by "greater design" doesn't strip meaning, however. Or mean that things happen in "randomness." All actions (or lack thereof) contribute to the cause and effect which influences to some degree absolutely everything else (although the incredible complexity of figuring out all the various inputs to the overall cause and effect may make things seem random). Basically, everything that exists and that happens continually re-creates the "now" of the Universe. There is responsibility and meaning in that.

More insight into your thinking on this would be greatly appreciated.

1. Why do you think that pupose implies utilitarianism?

2. What things in the universe do not have a "function," and how do you know they don't?

3. Why do you believe that life adds nothing to "the integrity and survival of the universe?"

1. Purpose denotes an intelligence behind it therefore meaning that the intelligence will no doubt choose the most efficient means by which to accomplish this purpose, whatever that purpose may be.

2. As I said, life and the reason is in point 3....

3. How do I know that life adds nothing to the survival and integrity of the universe? Simply put, the universe existed before life. If the universe can exist in stability without life, then how can life add any further to its integrity?

Something in between.

If by "purposefullness" you mean intelligent, created design then no. It is random. I believe the universe is self-organized from the randomness of all possibility and energies react together in a cause and effect pattern according to the shape of that organization (which could possibly eventually change the overall organizing pattern although that would take an extremely unique combination of forces acting according to the established physical laws set forth in the current organization scheme).

Just because something doesn't happen by "greater design" doesn't strip meaning, however. Or mean that things happen in "randomness." All actions (or lack thereof) contribute to the cause and effect which influences to some degree absolutely everything else (although the incredible complexity of figuring out all the various inputs to the overall cause and effect may make things seem random). Basically, everything that exists and that happens continually re-creates the "now" of the Universe. There is responsibility and meaning in that.

That's one of the best posts I have seen on this board! Good elucidation! :)

Cannot compute. Need more data.

I would speculate that the universe is completely random. The reason for this is that if the universe was purposeful, then everything in it would be purely useful and utilitarian; everything would have a function.
Of course, in reality, the universe contains many things that do not have a function. Life, for example has no real function except to exist; we do not add to the integrity and survival of the universe.Merely because we have not discerned the function does not mean that there is no function.

What meaning would the Universe have without man? The tons of blackholes, exploding stars, and colliding galaxies we are the ones who discover just how vast the universe is. We are having this discussion now. Does it have no meaning? Do you want it to have no meaning? I think it's funny how you imagine things, and then when you look at reality, it's nothing like you ever imagined. It's actually more than you can even fathom. Yet we are able to gather material together to communicate with each other with words which do have meaning. Discovering the meaning of something can take a eternity to comprehend. I know that sometimes things fall into place when you figure out a small part of what an object represents. It's kind of strange because lately whatever I've been talking about seems to happen later on. Sometimes I wonder if the universe was placed there to understand the eternity we are now living in. There is more to know than what is on earth and more to know than just mere chances. Chance is a good way to stop your mind from ever thinking. Do you really think if you just veg out and watch TV chance will arrange the "chemicals and nerves in your brain" and you will aquire a new level of understanding? Lightyears of emptiness and all of a sudden.....buildings, computers, particle accelerators and telescopes.

INSUFFICENT DATA FOR MEANINGFUL ANSWER.

:D
The Last Question, Isaac Asimov.

If the universe doesn't have a purpose, then why is it there?

If the universe doesn't have a purpose, then why is it there?

What a meaningless question this is. It's there because it's there.

What a meaningless question this is. It's there because it's there.
Not meaningless at all. Why is it there?

Not meaningless at all. Why is it there?

Just to bring some humour in some where...

42 GODDAMMIT!!!

I don't believe it necessary for there to be a purpose to the universe. In all honesty i don't think that life itself has a purpose. As for proof of this, its mainly that my personal belief is that the universe is far too large and complex for anything to have much meaning down at our level, and that we would need to see a bigger picture if we wanted to understand. But as belief is no proof, then i cannot prove to you my belief.

My own belief is a little complex to understand, in other words its a mishmash of many beliefs and theories that i have put together in a way that i can accept and that i personally believe the way the universe works. but i am more than happy if i am to be proved wrong :)