NationStates Jolt Archive

An idea I had- what do you think is/was the world's greatest empire? Post comments here- I'd like to see what you think.

Alexander the Great and the Romans conquered most of the known world, in their times.

The British Ruled a fitht of the Earth, at their prime.

The Greek Empire. They had great intellectual ability as a whole-Nearly every astrological, geometrical, mathematical, etcetera law or idea they came up with and used is still relevant today. Considering they didn't have the technology we have today (much of which they laid the foundation for), that was a pretty difficult task that I don't think any other empire accomplished as well as they did.

i guess it depends on whether you think of china as having one empire or many (due to the different dynasties)

i say it's ONE and that makes the chinese empire the greastest ever. biggest area, biggest population, longest duration.

#2 has to be rome doesnt it?

What about Genghis Khan and the Mongols?

Genghis Khan's Mongol Empire was the single largest land empire ever created, by a huge margin. From the Pacific Ocean, to the Balkans, from the Artic Ocean to the Indian Ocean, Mongol rule was in place.


Nobody else even comes close to what he did, not even close.

What about Genghis Khan and the Mongols?

Forgot them, anyway, people who want to vote for him should vote other

The British Empire. Without a doubt the greatest - in all senses - that ever existed.

Not speaking as an expert of any kind, but my voice goes for Genghis Khan's Mongol empire..

However, no doubt that the British Empire was ultimately the largest, but I believe in this topic you're supposed to think "in their times" :)

Is this even a contest? It's Rome by far. They had an enormious longevity (From 753 BC - 1453 AD), were able to hold a huge ammount of land for a very long time, and they left perhaps the most important contributions to our modern world.

Not speaking as an expert of any kind, but my voice goes for Genghis Khan's Mongol empire..

However, no doubt that the British Empire was ultimately the largest, but I believe in this topic you're supposed to think "in their times" :)
Actually they weren't. Even at Britain's peak (in terms of total land area controlled) their control of lands in Africa, Canada, Asia, and Australia still did not equal the raw total of land controlled by the Mongols, let alone the fact that the Mongols had a single connected empire, as opposed to a wildly separated series of colonies, some with near autonomy.

Pehrpas you are meant to go with "in their time," in which case it's the British Empire. And if not, IMO it's still that great Empire.

Not speaking as an expert of any kind, but my voice goes for Genghis Khan's Mongol empire..

However, no doubt that the British Empire was ultimately the largest, but I believe in this topic you're supposed to think "in their times" :)
AHEM
the mongols became emperors of CHINA

I think the Byzantine Empire should at least make the list.

The Egyptians ruled lots of land. The Assyrians and Babylonians conquered almost all of the middle east at one time. Cant forget them...

As a dutch, I would say the Dutch "Empire" in th 17th century. As a history lover I would say the British empire, not only because of the enormous size but also it changed the history of the world. (something the mongols also did, but on a smaller scale.

Actually, Britain controlled a full two-fifths of the Earth's land (they had colonies on all seven continents).

I guess if you count America as an empire, it has to be the greatest, because no nation in history has had as much influence on the world as the U.S.

However, American ideals and the American way of life are derived from British ideals and way of life, so I guess you could say that everything America has done has been because of Britain, at least indirectly.

Actually they weren't. Even at Britain's peak (in terms of total land area controlled) their control of lands in Africa, Canada, Asia, and Australia still did not equal the raw total of land controlled by the Mongols, let alone the fact that the Mongols had a single connected empire, as opposed to a wildly separated series of colonies, some with near autonomy.

However, the Mongols were very few, which was one of the major reasons to why their Empire eventually collapsed. The British empire had a better grasp of their lands, I believe

However, you're right about the area. My mistake here, or actually I didn't think of the land mass at all, just posted first and thought a bit afterwards :P

Rule britannia *waves small union jack, kisses picture of queen mother and then beats a darkie*

Carthage i say!

Yes, Carthage. The arch-enemy of Rome for centuries. Both had extensive tracts of land and fought bitterly for every piece. Hannibal and Cannae, the romans at Zama, the many naval battles, the war in Spain.

Now, didnt have much land(North Africa excluding Egypt, Spain, Corsica, Southern Sicily), but they impacted the world greatly. Seeing how they were Pheonicians, they contributed to the first trading routes, they practically OWNED the mediterranean(until the 2nd Punic War ended, o' course), they had grand cities(*cough*Carthage and its great port*cough*), they made some of the first Warships, and much much more.

Besides, i utterly DETEST Rome...

British, Greek and Roman have left the biggest marks on the rest of the world. The modern world would simply not exist without these 3.

I'ma say Rome, easily. They conquered almost all the known world, and held it for a 500 years. The actual people of Rome lasted from 753 BC (traditional founding of the city) to 1453 (Capture of Constantinople by the Ottomans). They administered it well, until it finally grew too big for communications and such to keep up, leading to its collapse. It had a democratic government which stood for 400 years. They were masters of appeasing conquered populaces-considering the size of the Empire, there were very few rebellions. They had one of the best armies on the face of the earth, and in their time, the greatest navy. They learned from their mistakes-They broke the stalemate of the First Punic war by building a navy, copying the Carthaginians, after Cannae they no longer faced Hannibal in open combat, and after the tyranny of the first monarchy they established a democratic government. The Roman language is still understood today, and is the basis for most modern Western languages. Their architecture was unmatched-do you think anything WE built will still be standing 2,000 years (and countless wars) later?

Roma victor!

My vote goes for Mongols. Their empire, which as far as I know is the largest ever, was established by their blood.

Other: The Holy Empire of Kitsune Youkai.
Purely because we are not an empire in most conventional senses of the word. We have no colonies, we do not police the world and we are all together not an empire. So there. :cool:

British, Greek and Roman have left the biggest marks on the rest of the world. The modern world would simply not exist without these 3.

Nor them without the Egyptians

I think the best empires where the British Empire, The Greek Empire and the Roman Empire. All three of them contributed a lot to western civilization especially Greece.

By the way Macedonia was Greek so it should be together with Greece on the list.

I think the best empires where the British Empire, The Greek Empire and the Roman Empire. All three of them contributed a lot to western civilization especially Greece.

By the way Macedonia was Greek so it should be together with Greece on the list.

Thats where you are wrong. Macedonia is NOT Greece, and never was. It was Macedonia. Macedonia CONQUERED Greece. The Greeks called Macedonians BARBARIANS. How Alexanders Empire became known as the greek empire? The world will never know...

I think the Byzantine Empire should at least make the list.

The Byzantines were basically a splinter of the Roman Empire, and would be included under that option, I'd assume.

The Byzantines were basically a splinter of the Roman Empire, and would be included under that option, I'd assume.

Yeah- I forgot about Byzantium- meant to put them there, but didn't.

what isn't china at least on the list? They wern't the greatest. but creating steel before anyone else and caligraphy and all that other stuff is worth mentioning..or is this just the greatest (western) empire?

Went for The Romans, did a lot of good things before they went belly up

Hmm choosing one empire is rather difficult no? An empire tends to be large and therefore embraces many sometimes distinct groups and never appear out of thin air and without inspiration from something earlier. Perhaps that uppity Macedonian and the Mongol mob came close to that but no else have. Didn’t the Spanish at one stage have most of South America, the Caribbean and pats of North Africa, the Philippines and Africa?

Anyway Empires are never that “great” they also involve having masters and subjects, colonies and provinces and a generally feudalistic structure. The 20th C British Empire was perhaps better in the regard that it provided democratic government – to the privileged white British males… but that’s better then nothing, right? The French also were similar and they inspired the revolt in Haiti which became the first nation to outlaw slavery – before the French fought them and then reintroduced it.

what isn't china at least on the list? They wern't the greatest. but creating steel before anyone else and caligraphy and all that other stuff is worth mentioning..or is this just the greatest (western) empire?

The problem with China is, although it was a complex society and took up a vast amount of space, it was incredibly unstable.

rome or the US.but really,there pretty much exactly the same. :p stuipid republican warmongers.

Thats where you are wrong. Macedonia is NOT Greece, and never was. It was Macedonia. Macedonia CONQUERED Greece. The Greeks called Macedonians BARBARIANS. How Alexanders Empire became known as the greek empire? The world will never know...
Greece back then was full of city-states like Athens, Sparta, Corinth, etc... Macedonia was a Greek city-state. All the Greek city-states fought each other except when foreign powers like the Persians where planning to invade. Why did Alexander the Great spread Hellenism throughout the known world? If he was Macedonian and not Greek why didn’t he spread Macedonian culture? Because he was Greek and because Macedonia was Greek. Everything they dig up about Macedonia had Greek writing on it. Don’t listen to propaganda of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia because its all lies. FYROM was formed by Yugoslavia. They are Yugoslavians not Macedonians.

However, the Mongols were very few, which was one of the major reasons to why their Empire eventually collapsed. The British empire had a better grasp of their lands, I believe

However, you're right about the area. My mistake here, or actually I didn't think of the land mass at all, just posted first and thought a bit afterwards :P
Actually, in terms of pure duration, the Mongols controlled their individual pieces roughly as long, or longer, than Great Britain. The problem wasn't numbers, it was:

1) Inter Clan Conflict: The succession policy wasn't clear, and as it came down to a vote (with notable corruption), the losers tended to fight the ruling.
2) Inter Religious Conflict: Some Mongols converted, others didn't. In some cases, Muslim Mongols then went to war with Pagan or Christian ones, and vice versa.
3) Lack of clear leadership: Following the passing of Genghis' direct family, the hardened Mongol's had become softened by the luxury they had gained. Not until Tamurlane would they get a new hardened leader to bring them to victory.

The Mongols were always outnumbered in war, but in administration their utilization of Chinese mandarins and other officials allowed them great flexibility.

What about the Islamic empire? without them all the precouis knowledge of the Greeks and Romans would be lost in the dark ages when people considred Plato and Aristotle blasphemy and burned their books.Not to mention that they added to the knowledge with things like the birth of modern chemistry and medicene.

The British Ruled a fifth of the Earth, at their prime.

A fifth?! I'll have you know it was a quarter:

http://www.safalra.com/other/britishempire.html

Greece back then was full of city-states like Athens, Sparta, Corinth, etc... Macedonia was a Greek city-state. All the Greek city-states fought each other except when foreign powers like the Persians where planning to invade. Why did Alexander the Great spread Hellenism throughout the known world? If he was Macedonian and not Greek why didn’t he spread Macedonian culture? Because he was Greek and because Macedonia was Greek. Everything they dig up about Macedonia had Greek writing on it. Don’t listen to propaganda of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia because its all lies. FYROM was formed by Yugoslavia. They are Yugoslavians not Macedonians.

That may be true, but the SFRY is dead, and has been for about a decade.

That may be true, but the SFRY is dead, and has been for about a decade.
I know that but what does that have to do with Macedonians being Greek?

A fifth?! I'll have you know it was a quarter:

http://www.safalra.com/other/britishempire.html

Depending on how far back you go, Calais and other parts of northern France were British.

I know that but what does that have to do with Macedonians being Greek?

No, that was to counter your thing that "They're Yugoslavs." They can't be, since Yugoslavia doesn't exist.

The problem with China is, although it was a complex society and took up a vast amount of space, it was incredibly unstable.

I'm no expert.but didn't cao cao (or was it his kid?) gather up all the cattle in china under one banner wasn't that a bit stable.

In my mind there's virtually no contest. The Brits ran the greatest Empire ever.

Galactic Empire! Hail the Emperor! Hail Lord Vader!

Galactic Empire! Hail the Emperor! Hail Lord Vader!
And...GRAND MOFF TARKIN (he's the man!)

Yeah! It was bigger than any RL empire! Long live Palpatine!

Does not a sinle person remember the longetivity of the Egyptian Empire, which lasted several THOUSAND years as well as controlled almost all of Northern Africa.

Does not a sinle person remember the longetivity of the Egyptian Empire, which lasted several THOUSAND years as well as controlled almost all of Northern Africa.

Yes, but during those thousand years it was in civil war for the first few hundred, was ruled by the hill people for 100, made a relatively small empire(smaller than even Carthage), and then was ruled by the Persians, the Assyrians, the Greeks, AND the Romans, not to mention the Ottomans as well. Oh, and the brits.

Depending on how far back you go, Calais and other parts of northern France were British.

no, they were English. Great Britain did not exist until the 1707 union of England, Scotland and Ireland.

On the basis of sheer global influence the Greek and Roman empires come first due to their respective mathematical, technological and literary achievements (I mean come on, people can still speak Ancient Greek and Latin nowadays). Second would be the British Empire as it was so large the 'sun never set' on it, technology was spread globally by it and linguistically, though English is the second most common language in the world, it is recognised as being the 'universal' language.

Well, the Mongol Empire, in terms of land area. It was said that a virgin could walk from China to Seville without being ravished. This is also true today...although now it's a matter of choice on the part of the virgin.
In terms of the greatest empire ever, it's probably the British Empire, even if it was generally totally corrupt and poorly administrated. And has left most of its former colonies in the shit. With the unfortunate exception of America.

THe sun never set on the British Empire

Genghis Khan and the Mongols were easily the most powerful empire ever.

Well, the Mongol Empire, in terms of land area. It was said that a virgin could walk from China to Seville without being ravished. This is also true today...although now it's a matter of choice on the part of the virgin.
In terms of the greatest empire ever, it's probably the British Empire, even if it was generally totally corrupt and poorly administrated. And has left most of its former colonies in the shit. With the unfortunate exception of America.

I take objection to that. The Empire was far from perfect, but, unintentional as it may have been, it did benefit the populations of the colonies. From Nigeria to India, we built services still used there today. We built roads and railways, hospitals and schools, gave them running water and proper sewage systems, left them a great legal system and culture with which to work. Look at India now; it's not a great deal changed socially, but it has a fine infrastrucuture to support its rapidly-growing population that simply did not exist before we came along. In a great many cases, before the British arrived, the indigenous population lived in mud huts. Is it really deniable that their lot has, by and large, improved since we were there?

Ancient Egypt, those were some smart people, and the empire was aroud for a really long time.

I take objection to that. The Empire was far from perfect, but, unintentional as it may have been, it did benefit the populations of the colonies. From Nigeria to India, we built services still used there today. We built roads and railways, hospitals and schools, gave them running water and proper sewage systems, left them a great legal system and culture with which to work. Look at India now; it's not a great deal changed socially, but it has a fine infrastrucuture to support its rapidly-growing population that simply did not exist before we came along. In a great many cases, before the British arrived, the indigenous population lived in mud huts. Is it really deniable that their lot has, by and large, improved since we were there?
Refer to Monty Python's Life of Brian for a similar explanation of the Roman Empire.

Genghis Khan and the Mongols were easily the most powerful empire ever.
And they were stopped by Poland. If your empire got stopped by Poland (espescially at that time) then you clearly are overrated.

Everybody always discounts the Muslims ...

I'm gonna have to go with the Ottoman Empire on this one. Not only for military might, but for their amazing advances in mathematics, sciences, and arts. If it weren't for the secularization of Turkey in the 20th century, the Ottoman Empire would still be going strong today.

Genghis Khan's Mongol Empire was the single largest land empire ever created, by a huge margin. From the Pacific Ocean, to the Balkans, from the Artic Ocean to the Indian Ocean, Mongol rule was in place.


Nobody else even comes close to what he did, not even close.

too bad they didn't outlast his death.....

Alexander the great... or the Egyptian Empire

I'd have to go with the Romans, partly because of the longevity that their maintained their empire and also the stablity their provided to the Mediterrean. I wouldn't consider the empires of Genghis Khan or Alexander to be great empire, at least in length. but nevertheless those two empire was immense in size, but for the most part after their deaths their empire fragmentted. (for Genghis Khan, the various Khanates, for Alexander the Successor States-Selecuid, Ptolomies and Antigoids)

Everybody always discounts the Muslims ...

I'm gonna have to go with the Ottoman Empire on this one. Not only for military might, but for their amazing advances in mathematics, sciences, and arts. If it weren't for the secularization of Turkey in the 20th century, the Ottoman Empire would still be going strong today.
and a little thing called WWI...

ROMANS RULE! I love the Roman Empire. I studied Latin in secondary school for 6 years. Can't translate a damn thing but I absolutly loved the history. Apart from all the incest and believe me there was loads! my fav Emperor was Vespation. Along with that has any one read Lynday Davis book the course of honour?
The Egyptians were also fantastic. It's such a shame that we didn't study them in more detail. My history course doesn't offer any thing on the Egyptians and only a little bit on the Romans in first year. If I could I'd base half of my history credits on both I especially love the rumor going around about how they had help from another planet..Could this have been started by people who watch too much Star Gate?!

ROMANS RULE! I love the Roman Empire. I studied Latin in secondary school for 6 years. Can't translate a damn thing but I absolutly loved the history. Apart from all the incest and believe me there was loads! my fav Emperor was Vespation. Along with that has any one read Lynday Davis book the course of honour?
The Egyptians were also fantastic. It's such a shame that we didn't study them in more detail. My history course doesn't offer any thing on the Egyptians and only a little bit on the Romans in first year. If I could I'd base half of my history credits on both I especially love the rumor going around about how they had help from another planet..Could this have been started by people who watch too much Star Gate?!

I hate you.

It's nothing personal actually, but im Carthage's biggest(and probably only) fan! If history went my way, we'd all be talking a different language now, be part of different country, and either be more advanced or less advances(a difference between 100 years less advanced or 100 years more advanced or somewhere in-between.)

A carthage fan, indeed a very rare sight indeed...indeed their navy was extremely forbiddably, had it not been for the corvus, the Romans would never had won as many naval encounters as they did in the first punic war

I'm pretty sure the greatest one was The Galactic Empire

It's nothing personal actually, but im Carthage's biggest(and probably only) fan!

Not the only .... I even named my son Hannibal. :)

Not the only .... I even named my son Hannibal. :)

Are you serious?

Are you serious?


Yep .... his name is Damien Hannibal. We call him Hannibal.

http://www.unlc.biz/Hannibal002.jpg

That's him. :)

I'm pretty sure the greatest one was The Galactic Empire

Indeed, ruling a whole galaxy and all :D

I would have to say America, and not just because it has amazing technology and all. All those other empires, they all had their rivals that, even if not equal one-on-one, could still always gang up on them (ex. Rome had Carthage, then Persia) or there were empires going on that were their equal in other parts of the world (ex. Rome and China).

America, however, has no opponent ever since the USSR fell apart. The combined spending of the top ten industrialized nations doesn't even come close to what America spends on its military; just one carrier battlegroup would be equal to the combined might of most of the world's navies, not including the UK; I mean, we're getting to the point where putting lasers on fighter aircraft (http://www.aviationnow.com/content/publication/awst/20020708/aw32.htm) and antimatter weapons (http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/world/9845767.htm) are becoming reality within a couple of decades! The fact that America doesn't need to use its military might to influence the world, acting instead through its economic and cultural means, goes to show how great it is. In my opinion, anyways :D

For the post above with the picture, that is just freaky. Anyway, my favorite is the Roman Empire. Many people say the the Byzantian Empire was its own empire, but it was really the eastern part of the Roman empire that outlived Rome itself. And the capital of the Roman Empire was moved to Byzantium before the fall of Rome. So really, the Roman Empire lasted till 1498 A.D.

Mongolia of course. IIRC, they were the only ones who ever controlled more than Russia or Greece in their period of life, and they forever changed China, Korea, and (due to emigration from affected countries) Japan. They are also probably largely reponsible for much of what comprises Russia and East Europe culture-wise, especially in regards to Hungary.

America is no longer an Empire, and while it was, it was a rather pathetic one which couldnt compare to Japan, Germany, Britain, even France and the remnants of the Dutch empire. It tried to rule over its gains by congress and for obvious reasons, this didnt work, as, unlike today, the US was a very intolerant nation then and didnt want to assimilate many of its gains. So it eventually granted them independance, unable to exploit them as they hoped. America was out of the European colonial game quite early.

Mongolia of course. IIRC, they were the only ones who ever controlled more than Russia or Greece in their period of life, and they forever changed China, Korea, and (due to emigration from affected countries) Japan. They are also probably largely reponsible for much of what comprises Russia and East Europe culture-wise, especially in regards to Hungary.

Yeah they sure did change Japan. Changed it to wanting to get back at Korea and China because they helped the Mongols try to invade Japan. The invasion was a failure though.

Indeed, ruling a whole galaxy and all :D

I would have to say America, and not just because it has amazing technology and all. All those other empires, they all had their rivals that, even if not equal one-on-one, could still always gang up on them (ex. Rome had Carthage, then Persia) or there were empires going on that were their equal in other parts of the world (ex. Rome and China).

America, however, has no opponent ever since the USSR fell apart. The combined spending of the top ten industrialized nations doesn't even come close to what America spends on its military; just one carrier battlegroup would be equal to the combined might of most of the world's navies, not including the UK; I mean, we're getting to the point where putting lasers on fighter aircraft (http://www.aviationnow.com/content/publication/awst/20020708/aw32.htm) and antimatter weapons (http://www.sunherald.com/mld/thesunherald/news/world/9845767.htm) are becoming reality within a couple of decades! The fact that America doesn't need to use its military might to influence the world, acting instead through its economic and cultural means, goes to show how great it is. In my opinion, anyways :D

I'm sure as far as durations of 'Empires' go, 20 years is not very long to go unchallenged. Plus, why would anyone want to challenge America for top spot? A lot of places have already been there and done it. I think the idea of Britain ever regaining it's empire would be ludicrous and being top bitch? Nah - I wouldn't like that either... It's quite nice knowing the only reason people want to bomb us is because they can't forgive or because we're supporting America. I'm sure that mentality applies for other countries. Whether it's an issue of whether we WANT to, or whether we COULD, is an issue I don't think needs to be brought up and surely the Americans would choose the latter even if it did, so what's the point? It's been shown many times before on these forums that that debate goes no where, since it's all theoretical.

I didn't know the Greeks counted as a real empire, biut I choose them. They laid and developed all the foundations of western civilisation.

Is this even a contest? It's Rome by far. They had an enormious longevity (From 753 BC - 1453 AD), were able to hold a huge ammount of land for a very long time, and they left perhaps the most important contributions to our modern world.
Yes, but without the Greeks the Romans would have been nowhere.

[The Romans] were masters of appeasing conquered populaces
Are you sure they didn't just massacre them into submission?

Genghis Khan's Mongol Empire was the single largest land empire ever created, by a huge margin. From the Pacific Ocean, to the Balkans, from the Artic Ocean to the Indian Ocean, Mongol rule was in place.

Nobody else even comes close to what he did, not even close.
In land area, yes, but the Mongols contributed very little. In fact they destroyed more than they created. It's a little known fact that their invasion and takeover of China was the bloodiest war of all time (save WW2). ore than 30 million (mostly Chinese) people were killed in their war.

And they were stopped by Poland. If your empire got stopped by Poland (espescially at that time) then you clearly are overrated.
*cue "you forgot Poland!" jokes*

The Roman Empire was. In addition to building such a vast empire, they nurtured even the most distant provinces, unlike, say, the French or Germans. They were master engineers, and good at most everything else. They unified the economy of Europe and the Mediterranean, and they spread their language, ideas, and Western civilization far and wide. This can, arguably, be attributed to the fact that they were the first truely liberal (and largely peaceful) empire. The British are the runner-up, largely owing to the fact that they followed in Rome's footsteps.

Come on, the British did nothing but create a massive empire and then sit around while it collapsed at the hands of such ruthless revolutionaries as Ghandi.

This isn't so simple. Conquest wise, it would be a pissing match between the mongols, british, and romans. Economic wise, I think the british would win easily, with maybe the french riding a close second. Most effective government would be by far the british. Instead of having a massive upheaval like the french and russians, and to an extent, the romans, the british monarchy, with a few bloody and violent exceptions, slowly relinquished their power to the Parliament, making the government a hell of a lot more stable. Technology and Discovery wise, Greeks kick ass. But all of them are paltry compared to my vote. The empire I think had (and still has) the greatest power doesn't have borders. I'm talking about the Roman Catholic Church. The driving force behind Eupropeans for well over 1600 years (not counting the Roman Empire that lasted after Jesus died), the pope had the power to lead the entire continent into war with another religion. Kings worshipped the pope, some begged in ragged clothes outside the Vatican for forgivenesss when they were excommunicated. The power the Church had over powerful empires was astounding. That's why my vote is not for a country, but for a religion.

I'm sorry this was not more well thought out. It could have been an interesting discussion.

What do you mean by greatest? The largest (the Mongol Empire, left off)? The most influential (certainly China's impact on Asia has been pervasive, but they aren't included). The most destructive (how could you include Imperial Germany - realitively small and unimportant - but not Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, two of history's most destructive)? How about the longest lasting Empire (the Ottomans, also absent)?

If you would consider America an empire, I would have to choose that. American culture has touched every continent and definitly every power on this Earth. If you don't believe me then you're living in a cave. Ever hear of a Ford truck or maybe a Big Mac? With no sight of America's fall and the fact it is the only super power on Earth at the moment, I would say America is the best or will be the best at some point in the future. My the moon looks nice, I wonder if anyone will ever walk on... wait, didn't Caesar do that? I think not. :P Ok, maybe that was a bit much.

2nd would be the Romans or British in my mind. The British did create the original 13 colonies afterall. Too bad they lost them and the Americans hauled them from being backwater colonies to the strongest power in the modern world.

I think that it is important to define empire. I define an empire as two or more nations with different customs, languages, etc, that are ruled by one central government. The US can be counted as an empire, but only if we count each of the native tribes as separate nations. I don't, as they are largely assimilated.

There are a large number of uninformed peoples active on these forums it seems.
Originally Posted by Kingperson Mk II
[The Romans] were masters of appeasing conquered populaces

It is not fair to measure the roman empire in such terms against say the British empire as their was no sense of nationalism and because of the wild state of europe roman protection was often wanted thus making them not the conquered but the hosts of the Romans. However Britain required a constant garrison and teh romans continued to struggle to hold the natives down throughout their stay.

Also in regards to the romans much of what is claimed they brought is exagerated or just incorrect, for example the romans did not bring roads into existance, they did not link Britain with the rest of europe, they did not bring civilisation. To be honest the Roman empire is as much about myth and legend as fact and the uninformed belive them to be one inthe same.

well i think that because the british empire was turned into the commonwealth of nations and H.M is leader the commonwealth of nations in a way the empire still exists so my vote gos too my own nation UK

The Romans were utter bastards and destroyed the culture that existed in Britain before they invaded. We had gender equality long before the women's lib movement.

Actually they weren't. Even at Britain's peak (in terms of total land area controlled) their control of lands in Africa, Canada, Asia, and Australia still did not equal the raw total of land controlled by the Mongols, let alone the fact that the Mongols had a single connected empire, as opposed to a wildly separated series of colonies, some with near autonomy.


The British Empire was by far the greatest and the largest. And, most ex-colonies are now as equals in The Commonwealth. Now you couldn't say that for the Romans and certainly not for the Mogals.

I'm sorry this was not more well thought out. It could have been an interesting discussion.

What do you mean by greatest? The largest (the Mongol Empire, left off)? The most influential (certainly China's impact on Asia has been pervasive, but they aren't included). The most destructive (how could you include Imperial Germany - realitively small and unimportant - but not Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, two of history's most destructive)? How about the longest lasting Empire (the Ottomans, also absent)?

Is there an empire that has done the greatest good for the greatest number of people? Greatest good defined as improving the standard of living and increasing freedom for the people living within or impacted by the empire.

Or do all empires inherently descend into tyranny?

They may ask you who is the grater man the Roman or the Greek. I will tell you; THE ENGLISH MAN.

Sir Walter Riley

Come on, the British did nothing but create a massive empire and then sit around while it collapsed at the hands of such ruthless revolutionaries as Ghandi.


The British could no longer afford an Empire after WW2. For the last 50 odd years they have been paying the Yanks back for 'Lease Lend', when the British 'leased' arms from the Yanks. Luckily for the Germans and Japs they lost the war, so they didn't pay the Yanks anything! Nice to be a rich country, isn't it? All the raw materials you really need in your own country! That's what most wars are about, raw materials.

what isn't china at least on the list? They wern't the greatest. but creating steel before anyone else and caligraphy and all that other stuff is worth mentioning..or is this just the greatest (western) empire?
I think it must be greatest Western empire, as no-ones yet even mentioned the Mayans, Aztecs or Incas, all of whom had pretty impressive empires at their peak. No-where near the Romans or Brits of course, but worth a mention nonetheless.

Well to begin with, i don't think the Mongol empire should count, as it was essentially just a mass of conquered lands forced to pay tribute. It didn't have a common civilization or an effective central government. As for alexander the great, he was a great commander but he died without having unified the lands he conquered, and the political and geographical consequences of his campaigns faded not long after his death. I'm surprised nobody included the Byzantine Empire on here, after all, it preserved Roman civilization up to the time of the Rennaissance, while all of western europe was going to hell. We would know very little about Roman Law if it wasn't for the Justinian Code (which was put together in Constantinople, not Rome) And although the Byzantine Empire never really had the momentum of classical Rome, it held out for about a thousand years after the fall of the Western Empire, making it the longest surviving empire in European history.

And they were stopped by Poland. If your empire got stopped by Poland (espescially at that time) then you clearly are overrated.

Grrrrrr....

1) Rome
1a) Byzantium: the Eastern Roman Empire, which subsisted until 1453. Notable as well as the longest-standing stable currency ever- the nomismata was stable in weight and purity for nearly a millenium.

2) Arab - you get credit with helping to bring down the Romans, and noone has ever left as lasting an impact on so large a proportion of the lands they conquered. think about it.

3) British - somewhat ignominious ending though.


miscellany also considered: Aztec, Inca, Holy Roman, Mongol

My vote goes for Mongols. Their empire, which as far as I know is the largest ever, was established by their blood.

Yep, I'm with this guy. The mongals were allmost undefeatable. The only reason why there emipre fell was because the mongols fought against each other after Ghengis Khans' death.

The Mongols, in my Opinion.

Although the Berbers are my Personal Favorite.

The conquests of Genghis Khan by far...

To the starter of the thread: When did a Greek empire exist? :headbang:

The conquests of Genghis Khan by far...

To the starter of the thread: When did a Greek empire exist? :headbang:
Greece had two empires. The Greek Empire formed by Alexander the Great and the Athenian Empire formed by the Greek city-state Athens.

Genghis Khan's Mongol Empire was the single largest land empire ever created, by a huge margin. From the Pacific Ocean, to the Balkans, from the Artic Ocean to the Indian Ocean, Mongol rule was in place.

Nobody else even comes close to what he did, not even close.

Not true. Britain had the world largest land empire. Period. One quater of the worlds surface was under British rule.

Not true. Britain had the world largest land empire. Period. One quater of the worlds surface was under British rule.
I think what they meant to say was that the Mongols had the largest contiguous land empire.

Yep, I'm with this guy. The mongals were allmost undefeatable. The only reason why there emipre fell was because the mongols fought against each other after Ghengis Khans' death.
Undefeatable until they ran against Poland. You also have to remember that vast amounts of their taken land was barely governed Russia.

*cue "you forgot Poland!" jokes*

Interesting fact, out of all ocupied nations under Nazi rule, Poland fought for the longest before being occupied. And then they rebelled in Warsaw and held it for a good month with hardly any food or guns. I have nothing but respect for the Poles. A brilliant example of human defiance at its best.

In the running for last place we have France and Persia...

I think what they meant to say was that the Mongols had the largest contiguous land empire.

If you can call it an empire. Largest contiguous burnt down ground is more like it. Most of the places 'conquered' were not governed or controled at all (hence the muscovites always being able to build themselves up, and then getting their city sacked again)

If you can call it an empire. Largest contiguous burnt down ground is more like it. Most of the places 'conquered' were not governed or controled at all (hence the muscovites always being able to build themselves up, and then getting their city sacked again)
True, the vast majority of Mongol territory was in a general state of total suckage.

In the running for last place we have France and Persia...

What about Pre WWI Germany

"The British empire was a massive network of colinies and occupied controled lands spanning a quater of the globe, where as the German empire consisted of a small sausage factory in Dussledorff"

Blackadder (paraphrase)

What about Pre WWI Germany

"The British empire was a massive network of colinies and occupied controled lands spanning a quater of the globe, where as the German empire consisted of a small sausage factory in Dussledorff"

Blackadder (paraphrase)
I's just citing the poll Massah!

Alexander the Great and the Romans conquered most of the known world, in their times.

The British Ruled a fitht of the Earth, at their prime.

They didn´t rule a "fitht", ruled almost over a third of the world´s surface. You need to both improve on your history, AS WELL as your spelling.

ahaha! Britain pulls 3 votes ahead of rome! Good choice.

I say, hands down, the Mongol Empire. There really isn't much to compare with the Golden Horde.

The Mongols didnt do anything all they did was kill people. They contributed nothing to the world.

I say, hands down, the Mongol Empire. There really isn't much to compare with the Golden Horde.
The Mongol Empire was a transitory entity. It didn't last long and it didn't make a large cultural impact like the British, Roman, Greek or American Empires. They just swarmed across the vast open plains of Russia, burned a bunch of villages, got into Eastern Europe, burned Krakow, and got driven back out of Poland by a German/Polish alliance (Battle of Liegnitz if I remember). Did the Mongols leave us a vast system or roads? A developed government? Aqueducts, or any improvements in their "conquered people's" lives? Did they spread civilization or their cultural ideas? No, the Mongol empire failed the test of time, and as such it isn't great.

Contribution has nothing to do with greatness in my mind. Driver ants are great, certainly, but all they do is consume. They contribute very little, although they do have their own niche. Kinda.

Chinese Empire - big, influential, inventive, long history and best of all - not dead yet.

I would not necissary judge an empire on how long it lasted, but on how it affected the world around it and/or conquered. China was very centrist so it didnt bother with much of the rest of the world. Rome controled and changed most the western world, culture, language, religion etc. Britian had major affect on the world it once agian altered culture language religion etc. Now America is trying to do that like the others by Military and economic might and a new way; mass media. Although as greatest i would have to say roman empire; for the world ended as they knew it after it went into decline.....(dark ages etc)




ALL Will fear the Wrath of The Drunken Mob of DOOM!

The greatest empire has to be the American mercantile interests (I keep it seperate from the American military-industrial-political complex, mind you). It's an empire so powerful that not only has it grown to a prodigious size, but its citizens have as well!

The greatest empire, above all others, was the mongols under Ghengis Khan (Read Ghengis Khan and the Making of the Modern World if you doubt me). Under Ghengis, the Mongols controled all of Asia, most of the Middle East and parts of Europe. He defeated all invaders and defenders, provided complete religious freedom (they often had interfaith religious debates), created printing, created a well run postal system, provided safety for all his citizens (it was said that a nubile virgin could walk from one end of the empire to the other without fear), the mongols created paper money, took all the best knowledge and theory from all of their conquered peoples, allowed for a multicultural society. They had all the things we deem as modern centuries before we had them. That is why they were the greatest. (realy, read that book, it is very enlightening)

The Mongol Empire was a transitory entity. It didn't last long and it didn't make a large cultural impact

The mongols lasted for a very long time (direct descendants of Ghengis were still in power in India until the British took it in the 1800's). THey had a huge cultural impact. In my previous post, I sugested a book, Ghengis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, read it. I am a voracious reader, and it is, by far and away, the single most interesting book I have ever read.

Undefeatable until they ran against Poland. You also have to remember that vast amounts of their taken land was barely governed Russia.

The Mongols weren't defeated by Poland.

The Mongols weren't defeated by Poland.
Definitely...If I remember my History rightly, the Mongols had paused during the winter to catch their breaths after the crushing of the arabs and the people of the Western steppes (Kiev, Muscovy, Hungary) when the emperor died so all the Mongols began travelling back to Mongolia for the election of the new emperor (they voted for one of the sons of the old emperor), and they never regained their momentum...
What about the Arabs? During their height they controlled much of North Africa, Spain, the Middle East, Asia Minor and Persia, had great religious freedoms within their domains and traded as far East as China....As well as filling in a lot of bits of science and Mathematics the Greeks missed out, including inventing our current number system...They were certainly the most advanced power of the period aside from China....

The Greek Empire. They had great intellectual ability as a whole-Nearly every astrological, geometrical, mathematical, etcetera law or idea they came up with and used is still relevant today. Considering they didn't have the technology we have today (much of which they laid the foundation for), that was a pretty difficult task that I don't think any other empire accomplished as well as they did.

Greece wasn't really an Empire. More a collection of city-states. I agree though, they have provided manikind with what it lacked before them... reason!

This poll sucks ass. I mean it's totally western centered. Where are the great empires of the Chinese, Mongols and Arabs?

I voted for the British cos I'm biased but whoever made this therad needs shooting.

Greece wasn't really an Empire. More a collection of city-states. I agree though, they have provided manikind with what it lacked before them... reason!

This poll sucks ass. I mean it's totally western centered. Where are the great empires of the Chinese, Mongols and Arabs?

I voted for the British cos I'm biased but whoever made this therad needs shooting.
Well yeah, that's what we've all been saying if you read the thread.....

Well yeah, that's what we've all been saying if you read the thread.....

I know. I just wanted to say it again anyway. Got a problem tubby?

I know. I just wanted to say it again anyway. Got a problem tubby?

You callin him fat? What a bastard.

Anyways, all I have to say is what about the FRENCH! Please people, they won....... never mind.

An idea I had- what do you think is/was the world's greatest empire? Post comments here- I'd like to see what you think.

Roman Empire obviously. It held together for some hundreds of years after all.

Just for the record a pole, Jan III Sobieski(who i happen to be related to, however distantly. His mother had the same last name as him, and Jon, my name, is almost EXACTLY like Jan, which also means Jon or John if ur British or an american of British descent. Which i am not.) defeated the Ottoman Army at the Battle of Vienna, thus spelling the beggining of the end. So while they didnt defeat the mongols, the Poles rang the death bell for the Ottomans.

ANYHOO, has anyone else joined me in the Carthage Fan-club?

*goes over to a small 5x5 foot square that says "People who think Carthage is the best ONLY" above it and sits on the floor.

Imperial Germany.

the ancient Egypt

Imperial Germany.

...

No offence, but the greatest Victory the Germans had was against the FRENCH. And that was only for two provinces.

It was good, but id hardly call it the best.

The thread is kind of dead, but I haven't been around, so...

Greece had two empires. The Greek Empire formed by Alexander the Great and the Athenian Empire formed by the Greek city-state Athens.

The one you call a "Greek Empire formed by Alexander the Great" is the Macedonian Empire and is well covered by the poll in case you have any doubt. And the "Athenian Empire" never existed, if you read any Greek Social-History book you'll find that Athenian supremacy is called "a period of imperialism" not an "Empire", quite different, huh?.

ANYHOO, has anyone else joined me in the Carthage Fan-club?

I love Carthaginian History but it wasn't an Empire mate.

...

No offence, but the greatest Victory the Germans had was against the FRENCH. And that was only for two provinces.

It was good, but id hardly call it the best.
I'm beeing patriotic here.

The Greek Empire. They had great intellectual ability as a whole-Nearly every astrological, geometrical, mathematical, etcetera law or idea they came up with and used is still relevant today. Considering they didn't have the technology we have today (much of which they laid the foundation for), that was a pretty difficult task that I don't think any other empire accomplished as well as they did.


sorry, maybe in bizzarro world there was a Greek Empire, but usually Greece was considered a land were Indipendent Polis were fighting each others on daily basis

the mongols and then the british IMO

Other: The Coca Cola Company. Most succesful global corporation EVER :D

The British Empire was the greatest Empire ever to have existed, without doubt. Without Britain embracing the industrial age so thoroughly, an agriculture-centric Europe would have delayed technological advancement for just as long as the dark ages. Without heavy industry, we wouldn't have anything like the technology we take for granted nowadays, so British impact is immeasurable (Of course, the same can be said for Greece and Rome, but to my mind, they took many of their innovations from absorbed culture. Interestingly enough, ancient Greece can be credited with the invention of the steam engine, but it was considered a novelty, so no points there.

Also, its progressive stance on slavery, and it's technical (if not in any way actual) equality of all subjects regardless of "creed, colour or income" by the early 1900s (that phrase was used in 1904) is almost unrivalled.

Aside from that, Carthage is pretty great, especially the whole clear glass thing. It's more useful than you might think. Inventive Carthaginian warfare tactics also forced a foe to adapt itself for the better in order to defeat it. Especially their habit for using snakes as naval weapons. (those snakes snapping at your ankles that made you surrender your ships? (6 months later) they're toothless. (They actually weren't, but it fooled the romans.) )

China was too splintered to be classed as one Empire. One culture, yes, but not an Empire. The Mongols, whilst ruling vast amounts of land, the land didn't often have someone in it. Greece was great, but aside from Alexanders hellenic Empire, it didn't really expand outwards, and was generally very loose.

Imperial Germany was never really a contender, in my mind.

As for the Americans, I don't believe they are the equal to the British. Their influence can be debated in comparison to British influence (the term "gunboat diplomacy" stems from us, as we parked warships in ports of unstable Countries as a threat to them.) They aren't self sufficient, either. At its peak, the British Empire could recieve no external trade, and not suffer overly much. (it'd be weakened, but it could handle itself.)

Bump!

I think the Byzantine Empire should at least make the list.
The Byzanitne Empire is the western Roman empire. When the empire was split into western and eastern provinces

Most mathematical advances, especiallt the invention of geometry were done by, dare i say it, the Arabs :)

It depends on what you judge "greatest" as. Land mass? Wealth? Influence? Time held? Or some complicated fusion of the lot?

I dont think there is any debate that the Romans or Moguls had the largest empire in terms of land mass. However, as for wealth (generated for the empire) the British Empire wins hands down - it was an empire built on money, trade and commerce, backed up by the military (did anyone see a program on Channel 4 (UK) a few years back called "Empire"? It basically chronicled the rise & fall of the British Empire through economics; v interesting).
Of course, if counted as an empire, the 'American Empire' comes close, but a lot of its wealth is generated internally, while the Brit Emp became wealthy almost purely through trade. If speaking in real money then the Roman Empire must have made a fair few bucks, but this is very hard to judge cos we dont have inflation records or exchange rates for those times....obviously.

Influence, I'd have to say the British Emp again - simply by virtue of language. So much of the world now speaks English, be it as a first language or because it is the 'language of commerce' (an idea started by Britain during the time of the Empire, and carried forwards by the USA in the 20th Century). Plus the Agricultural and, more importantly, Industrial Revolutions that began and flourished in Britain and, due to the empire, the technological advancements of these times could travel easily accross the globe, allowing modernisation and industrialisation on a world scale.

Time held? Rome obviously. Monguls loose big time (lol)! Britain had a fair stab - around 300 years at a rough guess.

So overall I'd stump for the British Empire.

I'd have to say Rome because of its overall size and control of its lands until the time when the empire split. They were also master architects and had some of the greatest cities that existed in that time.

Although Napoleonic France is up there too...
I'm not saying they were the best (they were far from it) but Napoleon did conquer a large area of land, attempted to unify Europe, he had the largest army the world had ever seen, and you have to admit that he was one of the few dictators to have total support from his people. He also put the French economy back together and made French one of the best languages even to this day.

The Byzanitne Empire is the western Roman empire. When the empire was split into western and eastern provinces
No it's not. The Byzantine Empire is the Eastern empire genius.

British Empire, Roman Empire and the US are the top three in my opinion.

British Empire: Covered so much territory, and was a dual military-economic empire. It had injustices as do all empires, but they were very minor compared to say, the French. The British path helped lead their colonies down the road to self government (India is a prime example.) They cooked up a lot of cash, revolutionized industry and naval tactics, and were just plain influential. Set up institutions and concepts still practiced in many parts of the world today. Plus they lasted a long time, and it only fell apart because of a mistake in commiting large conscript armies during WWI.

Rome was the big boy on the Meditteranean block for a long time. They set up administrative systems and bureaucracy throughout, and introduced the concept of big time road systems. Their military might and relative religious tolerance (for the time) were notable. They had a long lasting impact, and many ideas that were prominent in Westerm Europe were Roman. They also helped to prevent a Hunnic Empire when they held Attila off.

The US has tremendous world influence with it's economy and military. The US is capable of fielding a much larger military, but it doesn't do so. Commercial success in the half century after World War Two and the "Coca-Colanization" of many nations are also part. Also, the only great empire on the list that was/is capable of wiping civilization off the face of the earth. That surely is a factor.