NationStates Jolt Archive


Letter home from Falluja.

Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 17:27
Dear Dad -

Just came out of the city and I honestly do not know where to start. I am afraid that whatever I send you will not do sufficient honor to the men who fought and took Fallujah.

Shortly before the attack, Task Force Fallujah was built. It consisted of Regimental Combat Team 1 built around 1st Marine Regiment and Regimental Combat Team 7 built around 7th Marine Regiment. Each Regiment consisted of two Marine Rifle Battalions reinforced and one Army mechanized infantry battalion.

Regimental Combat Team 1 (RCT-1) consisted of 3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion (3rd LAR), 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines (3/5); 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines (3/1)and 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry (2/7). RCT-7 was slightly less weighted but still a formidable force. Cutting a swath around the city was an Army Brigade known as Blackjack. The Marine RCT's were to assault the city while Blackjack kept the enemy off of the backs of the assault force.

The night prior to the actual invasion, we all moved out into the desert just north of the city. It was something to see. You could just feel the intensity in the Marines and Soldiers. It was all business. As the day cleared, the Task Force began striking targets and moving into final attack positions. As the invasion force commenced its movement into attack positions, 3rd LAR led off RCT-1's offensive with an attack up a peninsula formed by the Euphrates River on the west side of the city. Their mission was to secure the Fallujah Hospital and the two bridges leading out of the city. They executed there tasks like clockwork and smashed the enemy resistance holding the bridges. Simultaneous to all of this, Blackjack sealed the escape routes to the south of the city. As invasion day dawned, the net was around the city and the Marines and Soldiers knew that the enemy that failed to escape was now sealed.

3/5 began the actual attack on the city by taking an apartment complex on the northwest corner of the city. It was key terrain as the elevated positions allowed the command to look down into the attack lanes. The Marines took the apartments quickly and moved to the rooftops and began engaging enemy that were trying to move into their fighting positions. The scene on the rooftop was surreal. Machine gun teams were running boxes of ammo up 8 flights of stairs in full body armor and carrying up machine guns while snipers engaged enemy shooters. The whole time the enemy was firing mortars and rockets at the apartments. Honest to God, I don't think I saw a single Marine even distracted by the enemy fire. Their squad leaders, and platoon commanders had them prepared and they were executing their assigned tasks.

As mentioned, 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry joined the Regiment just prior to the fight. In fact, they started showing up for planning a couple of weeks in advance. There is always a professional rivalry between the Army and the Marine Corps but it was obvious from the outset that these guys were the real deal. They had fought in Najaf and were eager to fight with the Regiment in Fallujah. They are exceptionally well led and supremely confident.

2/7 became our wedge. In short, they worked with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines. We were limited in the amount of prep fires that we were allowed to fire on the city prior to the invasion. This was a point of some consternation to the forces actually taking the city. Our compensation was to turn to 2/7 and ask them to slash into the city and create as much turbulence as possible for 3/1 to follow. Because of the political reality, the Marine Corps was also under pressure to "get it done quickly." For this reason, 2/7 and 3/1 became the penetration force into the city.

Immediately following 3/5's attack on the apartment buildings, 3/1 took the train station on the north end of the city. While the engineers blew a breach through the train trestle, the Cavalry soldiers poured through with their tanks and Bradley's and chewed an opening in the enemy defense. 3/1 followed them through until they reached a phase[line deep into the northern half of the city. The Marine infantry along with a few tanks then turned to the right and attacked the heart of the enemy defense. The fighting was tough as the enemy had the area dialed in with mortars. 3/5 then attacked into the northwest corner of the city. This fight continued as both Marine rifle battalions clawed their way into the city on different axis.

There is an image burned into my brain that I hope I never forget. We came up behind 3/5 one day as the lead squads were working down the Byzantine streets of the Jolan area. An assault team of two Marines ran out from behind cover and put a rocket into a wall of an enemy strongpoint. Before the smoke cleared the squad behind them was up and moving through the hole and clearing the house. Just down the block another squad was doing the same thing. The house was cleared quickly and the Marines were running down the street to the next contact. Even in the midst of that mayhem, it was an awesome site.

The fighting has been incredibly close inside the city. The enemy is willing to die and is literally waiting until they see the whites of the eyes of the Marines before they open up. Just two days ago, as a firefight raged in close quarters, one of the interpreters yelled for the enemy in the house to surrender. The enemy yelled back that it was better to die and go to heaven than to surrender to infidels. This exchange is a graphic window into the world that the Marines and Soldiers have been fighting in these last 10 days.

I could go on and on about how the city was taken but one of the most amazing aspects to the fighting was that we saw virtually no civilians during the battle. Only after the fighting had passed did a few come out of their homes. They were provided food and water and most were evacuated out of the city. At least 90-95% of the people were gone from the city when we attacked.

I will end with a couple of stories of individual heroism that you may not have heard yet. I was told about both of these incidents shortly after they occurred. No doubt some of the facts will change slightly but I am confident that the meat is correct.

The first is a Marine from 3/5. His name is Corporal Yeager (Chuck Yeager's grandson). As the Marines cleared and apartment building, they got to the top floor and the point man kicked in the door. As he did so, an enemy grenade and a burst of gunfire came out. The explosion and enemy fire took off the point man's leg. He was then immediately shot in the arm as he lay in the doorway. Corporal Yeager tossed a grenade in the room and ran into the doorway and into the enemy fire in order to pull his buddy back to cover. As he was dragging the wounded Marine to cover, his own grenade came back through the doorway. Without pausing, he reached down and threw the grenade back through the door while he heaved his buddy to safety. The grenade went off inside the room and Cpl Yeager threw another in. He immediately entered the room following the second explosion. He gunned down three enemy all within three feet of where he stood and then let fly a third grenade as he backed out of the room to complete the evacuation of the wounded Marine. You have to understand that a grenade goes off within 5 seconds of having the pin pulled. Marines usually let them "cook off" for a second or two before tossing them in. Therefore, this entire episode took place in less than 30 seconds.

The second example comes from 3/1. Cpl Mitchell is a squad leader. He was wounded as his squad was clearing a house when some enemy threw pineapple grenades down on top of them. As he was getting triaged, the doctor told him that he had been shot through the arm. Cpl Mitchell told the doctor that he had actually been shot "a couple of days ago" and had given himself self aide on the wound. When the doctor got on him about not coming off the line, he firmly told the doctor that he was a squad leader and did not have time to get treated as his men were still fighting. There are a number of Marines who have been wounded multiple times but refuse to leave their fellow Marines.

It is incredibly humbling to walk among such men. They fought as hard as any Marines in history and deserve to be remembered as such. The enemy they fought burrowed into houses and fired through mouse holes cut in walls, lured them into houses rigged with explosives and detonated the houses on pursuing Marines, and actually hid behind surrender flags only to engage the Marines with small arms fire once they perceived that the Marines had let their guard down. I know of several instances where near dead enemy rolled grenades out on Marines who were preparing to render them aid. It was a fight to the finish in every sense and the Marines delivered.

I have called the enemy cowards many times in the past because they have never really held their ground and fought but these guys in the city did. We can call them many things but they were not cowards.

My whole life I have read about the greatest generation and sat in wonder at their accomplishments. For the first time, as I watch these Marines and Soldiers, I am eager for the future as this is just the beginning for them. Perhaps the most amazing characteristic of all is that the morale of the men is sky high. They hurt for the wounded and the dead but they are eager to continue to attack. Further, not one of them would be comfortable with being called a hero even though they clearly are.

By now the Marines and Soldiers have killed well over a thousand enemy. These were not peasants or rabble. They were reasonably well trained and entirely fanatical. Most of the enemy we have seen have chest rigs full of ammunition and are well armed are willing to fight to the death. The Marines and Soldiers are eager to close with them and the fighting at the end is inevitably close.

I will write you more the next time I come in about what we have found inside the city. All I can say is that even with everything that I knew and expected from the last nine months, the brutality and fanaticism of the enemy surprised me. The beheadings were even more common place than we thought but so were torture and summary executions. Even though it is an exaggeration, it seems as though every block in the northern part of the city has a torture chamber or execution site. There are hundreds of tons of munitions and tens of thousands of weapons that our Regiment alone has recovered. The Marines and Soldiers of the Regiment have also found over 400 IEDs already wired and ready to detonate. No doubt these numbers will grow in the days ahead.

In closing, I want to share with you a vignette about when the Marines secured the Old Bridge (the one where the Americans were mutilated and hung on March 31) this week. After the Marines had done all the work and secured the bridge, we walked across to meet up with 3rd LAR on the other side. On the Fallujah side of the bridge where the Americans were hung there is some Arabic writing on the bridge. An interpreter translated it for me as we walked through. It read: "Long Live the Mujahadeen. Fallujah is the Graveyard for Americans and the end of the Marine Corps."

As I came back across the bridge there was a squad sitting in their Amtrac smoking and watching the show. The Marines had written their own message below the enemy's. It is not something that Mom would appreciate but it fit the moment to a T. Not far from the vehicle were two dead enemy laying where they died. The Marines were sick of watching the "Dog and Pony show" and wanted to get back to work.
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 18:39
What? No comments on this???
Fass
21-11-2004, 18:44
What? No comments on this???

Self-glorifying tripe.

Better?
New Foxxinnia
21-11-2004, 18:52
Should we be reading other people's mail?
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 18:54
Self-glorifying tripe.

Better?

Nope. It must be difficult for you, being so cynical at such an early age.
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 18:55
Should we be reading other people's mail?

Since it was posted on the Internet and is not attributed, I see no problem.
Middle March
21-11-2004, 18:55
What? No comments on this???

Mad Comix

or Battler Brittan for those who can remember : *Los! Schnell! Achtung!! Donner und Blitzen!!*

Back to Dungeons & Dragons, eh?
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 19:00
Mad Comix

or Battler Brittan for those who can remember : *Los! Schnell! Achtung!! Donner und Blitzen!!*

Back to Dungeons & Dragons, eh?

"It is well that war is so terrible, else we should too soon grow fond of it." - General Robert E. Lee
Zooke
21-11-2004, 19:02
What? No comments on this???

Don't be surprised. I've noticed that a number of the anti-war folks on here will go on and on against the war, condemn our troops as barbaric baby killers, and proclaim outrageous civilian death statistics. They deem to know the minds of our GIs in that they are opposed to our mission and are being forced to fight. When you hit them with actual facts, though, they seem to scurry away and take up their rant on another thread. You just have to chase them down and keep putting the facts in their face. They never learn, but it keeps you off the streets and out of the pool halls. :p

Note that I live in a town that has an AF base. In talking to some of the people from the base that have been in Iraq, the GIs morale is good. They are disgusted and angered by the living conditions prior to the war & the terorist atrocities. They're pumped on helping the people reclaim their country and they almost all remark on the common decency of a majority of the Iraqis.

History will eventually judge this war.
Middle March
21-11-2004, 19:06
Don't be surprised. I've noticed that a number of the anti-war folks on here will go on and on against the war, condemn our troops as barbaric baby killers, and proclaim outrageous civilian death statistics. They deem to know the minds of our GIs in that they are opposed to our mission and are being forced to fight. When you hit them with actual facts, though, they seem to scurry away and take up their rant on another thread. You just have to chase them down and keep putting the facts in their face. They never learn, but it keeps you off the streets and out of the pool halls. :p

It always amuses me how you seem to imagine we're all Right Thinking Americans here :)

*The Whole World's Watching*
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 19:08
Don't be surprised. I've noticed that a number of the anti-war folks on here will go on and on against the war, condemn our troops as barbaric baby killers, and proclaim outrageous civilian death statistics. They deem to know the minds of our GIs in that they are opposed to our mission and are being forced to fight. When you hit them with actual facts, though, they seem to scurry away and take up their rant on another thread. You just have to chase them down and keep putting the facts in their face. They never learn, but it keeps you off the streets and out of the pool halls. :p

But I like some pool halls! :D
Fass
21-11-2004, 19:08
Nope. It must be difficult for you, being so cynical at such an early age.

Cynicism is really not needed to see through BS.
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 19:09
It always amuses me how you seem to imagine we're all Right Thinking Americans here :)

*The Whole World's Watching*

I think the post was addressing my earlier post, which means that he/she was addressing me, not all members of this forum. Just a supposition on my part. :)
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 19:10
Cynicism is really not needed to see through BS.

Let me know when you find some, or have something actually substative to say.
Fass
21-11-2004, 19:13
Let me know when you find some, or have something actually substative to say.

Get back to me when you post something substantive for us to comment substantively on.

(No, regurgitated propaganda is not substantive.)
Zooke
21-11-2004, 19:14
It always amuses me how you seem to imagine we're all Right Thinking Americans here :)

I believe Right Thinking Americans is a poster on here but I am not familiar with their arguments. A little secret, I have aging eyes and to avoid having to deal with reading glasses, I enlarge the pixel setting on my screen. To see who is saying what requires me to scroll back and forth, so I seldom know who is saying what. Old age stinks!! :gundge:
Middle March
21-11-2004, 19:18
I believe Right Thinking Americans is a poster on here but I am not familiar with their arguments. A little secret, I have aging eyes and to avoid having to deal with reading glasses, I enlarge the pixel setting on my screen. To see who is saying what requires me to scroll back and forth, so I seldom know who is saying what. Old age stinks!! :gundge:

Well, I can agree with that, being an Old Timer myself :)
Eutrusca
21-11-2004, 19:18
I believe Right Thinking Americans is a poster on here but I am not familiar with their arguments. A little secret, I have aging eyes and to avoid having to deal with reading glasses, I enlarge the pixel setting on my screen. To see who is saying what requires me to scroll back and forth, so I seldom know who is saying what. Old age stinks!! :gundge:

I most definitely disagree. I think being my age ( 61 ) is great! I can say what I want, pretty much do as I please, and am accountable to virtually no one. And getting into a fight with a younger man is a winner for me, regardless of the outcome: if he wins, his frineds say "You just beat up an old man!" If I win, his friends say, "You just let that old man beat you up!" LOL!

Edit: AND you would be surprised at how many younger women prefer a more "experienced" man who keeps himself in shape. :D
Zooke
21-11-2004, 19:25
I most definitely disagree. I think being my age ( 61 ) is great! I can say what I want, pretty much do as I please, and am accountable to virtually no one. And getting into a fight with a younger man is a winner for me, regardless of the outcome: if he wins, his frineds say "You just beat up an old man!" If I win, his friends say, "You just let that old man beat you up!" LOL!

Edit: AND you would be surprised at how many younger women prefer a more "experienced" man who keeps himself in shape. :D

You have a point. I do take advantage of my advanced years (53) when letting my opinions be known. As for older men, I never did cotton to the idea of taking one to raise. I've always preferred them already house-broke.
Portu Cale
21-11-2004, 19:31
http://motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/10/10_404.html
Eutrusca
22-11-2004, 08:45
You have a point. I do take advantage of my advanced years (53) when letting my opinions be known. As for older men, I never did cotton to the idea of taking one to raise. I've always preferred them already house-broke.

LOL! You're a very wise woman! :D
Niccolo Medici
22-11-2004, 09:18
http://motherjones.com/news/qa/2004/10/10_404.html

Watch yourself Portu Cale, you don't want to inturrupt their backpatting.

"When you hit them with actual facts, though, they seem to scurry away and take up their rant on another thread. You just have to chase them down and keep putting the facts in their face."

Never mind that very few FACTS indeed were here...indeed how many would one expect in a friendly letter home? How many FACTS were actually posted in this supposed letter home from a Marine...who writes his letters almost exaclty like a talking points memo released from a government desperate for good press.

To the point of actually covering most of the government-approved highlights about the war...excepting perhaps the Iraqi troops that fought alongside the US troops there: future letters home should talk more about how brave a noble the Iraqi forces (and perhaps police as well) are alongside their US brothers in arms.

Please! When preparing tripe, please consider your audience. I've eaten enough garbage like this for one war, and yes I've had my fill of self-congratulatory bullsh*t as well.
The Black Forrest
22-11-2004, 09:29
Well it does kind of read like a political piece.

The author is unnamed and yet freely gives Yeagers name.

Well I guess it's the cynic in me.
All The Pretty Colors
22-11-2004, 09:37
I will not say that the soldier who wrote this letter is not brave, nor that he is ignorant, nor that he is needlessly endangering himself. I will not say that he is not doing his job, nor that he is being misled.

All I will say is that he is fighting on the wrong principles.
Tuesday Heights
22-11-2004, 09:45
Since it was posted on the Internet and is not attributed, I see no problem.

However, on NS, we respond more kindly if you at least post a source, whether it be who wrote this or where you found it.
Evil Woody Thoughts
22-11-2004, 09:56
OK, as a former cadet in the Civil Air Patrol, I'll comment...

I will grant that CAP was one of those things that my stepfather 'encouraged' me to participate in; nonetheless, I went to several encampments, received some training in SAR (thankfully, I never had to use it), and went to the IL Wing Officer Training School (this was pooled with the WI and MI wings IIRC).

During any given meeting or event, I actually enjoyed CAP. Nevertheless, I felt a mild discontent toward the prevailing institutionalized attitudes, namely those that the uberliberal posters on this board would be apt to characterize as 'the Borg' or some such thing. I think there is a degree of, shall we say, collectivemindedness, within the CAP.

That said, the CAP is, imo, a quasirecruitment program for the military. At least that's what it seemed like at the time. So I will operate on the stated assumption that the same collectivemindedness (you would probably call it respect for authority and/or comraderie) that exists within the CAP exists in the military as a whole.

Don't get me wrong. If you're getting shot at in Falluja, this is a good thing. However, if you're in the CIA, and the powers-that-be insist upon intelligence reports being 'slanted' a particular way, this mode of thought is not such a good thing. To see how this applies to Iraq, I recommend that you google "office of strategic intelligence."

I believe that the justification for the war in Iraq is based on politicized intelligence. I believed this before the spring of last year. No, I am not going to say "America sux0rz because it commits war crimes" on this thread. However, I believe the CIA caved in to the demands of the hawks within the Bush administration.

This isn't the first time a country has screwed up because of bad/politicized intelligence. Years ago, I read Military Intelligence Blunders (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0786707151/qid=1101112221/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i2_xgl14/102-7638199-7788148?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), written by a former Colonel in the British Army Intelligence Corps. I still have this book, in fact, and would hope that the author would have some authority on the matter. In early 2003, I noticed A LOT of similarities between the Bush administration's desire to go to war and the kinds of intelligence politicizing he wrote about.

It is on that basis that I opposed the war. I did not oppose the war because of a misguided belief that America is somehow inherently evil.

OK, I've gone a little off topic in my rant. :D Going back to the original subject, I believe this letter is more an expression of military culture than events really going on in Falluja. Namely, his glowing reports of the Falluja offensive...I personally become queasy at the thought of 'securing' a hospital with military force, for example. I will confess that I haven't been to Falluja recently, but in any battle, one person's glory is another's hell. Bad things have occured in Falluja. So have good things. Your son's letter leaves out the bad, imo. If your son's letter wasn't a positive depiction of events, I would guess it would arrive heavily censored. So I certainly cannot consider this letter an objective account of events; rather it depicts events from the military's point of view. While I respect the military, I tend to view it with a small degree of suspicion.

I participated in war protests. However, I am not a wild-eyed pacifist; my evaluation of the available information in March 2003 led me to an honest belief that the threat Saddam posed to the United States was exaggerated. That said, I look forward to veterans returning to the States, and should I encounter them, I will treat them with the utmost respect, though I may feel a slight inclination to have a polite debate with them. :)

I hope this ramble made sense; I would guess it's not too coherent. I need to go to bed now. Should you choose to respond to this, I will be leaving my Internet connection Tuesday morning (GMT -6) to visit relatives for Thanksgiving. :)
The Grendels
22-11-2004, 10:35
What surprised me was the detailing of units and supporting units taking place in a recent operation going home in the mailbag. You’d think that this sort of detail would be far from the mind of a ground pounder on the spot, who’d be talking exclusively about what he and his buds are going through. It read more like some Lt from Operations who didn’t see any action wanting to impress people back home or scripted disinformation attempt on the Web. A soldier on the ground would talk about his buddies and how they fared, because that would be his experience, not all this overview stuff to back overall policy. This looks more like something cobbled together by some of the PR department or a creative writing project.

The Grendels
Unaha-Closp
22-11-2004, 10:45
Fallujah has shown that overwhelming military power can be used to break a guerilla insurgency. Problem is that now the guerilla forces also know this and so will never stand and fight the Marines again. Sniping, bombing, kid-napping and sabotage from here on in.

The US military does not have enough personal to attack all giuerilla bases simultaneously in any decisive way, so will have to play "whack-a-mole" until the administration stumbles upon another idea. This is may be a long and nasty war.
Eutrusca
22-11-2004, 10:52
However, on NS, we respond more kindly if you at least post a source, whether it be who wrote this or where you found it.

On NS, people don't respond "kindly" no matter how many sources or references or anything else you post. And since the letter was sent to a friend by the father of the one who wrote it, what source could I post for it, their email addresses?
Eutrusca
22-11-2004, 10:54
I will not say that the soldier who wrote this letter is not brave, nor that he is ignorant, nor that he is needlessly endangering himself. I will not say that he is not doing his job, nor that he is being misled.

All I will say is that he is fighting on the wrong principles.

And what principles would you prefer he fight for?
Tuesday Heights
22-11-2004, 10:56
On NS, people don't respond "kindly" no matter how many sources or references or anything else you post. And since the letter was sent to a friend by the father of the one who wrote it, what source could I post for it, their email addresses?

Ah, I see, well, just a friendly warning... I tend to respond better when a source is posted, just so you know. I'm out. :)
Unaha-Closp
22-11-2004, 11:03
I will not say that the soldier who wrote this letter is not brave, nor that he is ignorant, nor that he is needlessly endangering himself. I will not say that he is not doing his job, nor that he is being misled.

All I will say is that he is fighting on the wrong principles.


His principles are of no matter, he is a professional soldier who has taken part in a marvellously effective operation. The Marines and Army have shown they can do what they are trained to do exceptionally well.

The administation on the other hand is inept. They adminstration is losing a war against guerillas backed by Gulf arab oil money. They are failing to use the Marines and the Army effectively. They are using them as policemen and guards and administrators, not soldiers.
Refused Party Program
22-11-2004, 11:17
Could this be your ever elusive source?

http://www.thegreenside.com/story.asp?ContentID=11151
Texastambul
22-11-2004, 11:18
His principles are of no matter, he is a professional soldier who has taken part in a marvellously effective operation. The Marines and Army have shown they can do what they are trained to do exceptionally well.

The administation on the other hand is inept. They adminstration is losing a war against guerillas backed by Gulf arab oil money. They are failing to use the Marines and the Army effectively. They are using them as policemen and guards and administrators, not soldiers.

well put -- I'd also like to add that aren't nearly enough soldiers in Iraq to do the job they've been given.
Tuesday Heights
22-11-2004, 11:20
Could this be your ever elusive source?

http://www.thegreenside.com/story.asp?ContentID=11151

Oooh...
Evil Woody Thoughts
22-11-2004, 11:26
Could this be your ever elusive source?

http://www.thegreenside.com/story.asp?ContentID=11151

I edited my earlier post to account for this; originally, I thought Eutrusca had family serving in Iraq. I didn't know this was circulating 'round the internets to begin with.
Monkeypimp
22-11-2004, 11:48
Would be interesting to hear a letter from an Iraqi fighting the Americans to his family, although odds are they aren't alive.

as for the original letter, tl;dr. Although I assume it was about how great the soldiers were who took the city? Once again, I'm not against the individual soldier only the excuses used to send them...
Anglolia
22-11-2004, 12:54
His principles are of no matter, he is a professional soldier who has taken part in a marvellously effective operation. The Marines and Army have shown they can do what they are trained to do exceptionally well.

The administation on the other hand is inept. They adminstration is losing a war against guerillas backed by Gulf arab oil money. They are failing to use the Marines and the Army effectively. They are using them as policemen and guards and administrators, not soldiers.

Quite right, principles don't matter so long as he gets paid at the end of the day. I mean what's the use of principles when your meant to do the task at hand? I don't think the army would quite like you to stop mid-battle and actually scrutinise your principles as to why your actually fighting. Good gravy, that could actually indicate free thought which could just be contagious to the other soldiers fighting with you.
Romarea
22-11-2004, 13:37
I have never doubted the fact that the average American GI is a brave soldier, who believes in the righteousness of his cause, believes that he is fighting to promote freedom around the world and that he is in Iraq for the best of the Iraqi people. I have also not doubted that the US marine corps is one of the best fighting forces in the world and fought the war for the most with discipline as per the rules of engagement.

But none of these arguments change the facts that for one that we were led to wars mostly on lies. The Bush administration has itself admitted that Saddam had no WMD even of the chemical weapon type. Even if one accepts the argument (as I do) that the world and the middle-east is be better off without Saddam, the fact still remains that the US government went irresponsibly to war as a first resort, when most of the other major powers urged more time for the inspectors to find out what we know now, that there were no WMD. The acts of the administration were even more irresponsible in my opinion, as they failed to consider what effects their actions would have on Iraq and the rest of the region. Mess-O-Potamia is entirely the fault of the US administration. There has been growing instability in the region as a whole as Islamists gain more power in many muslim countries due to fury in those places over american actions. There have been terrorist attacks in Saudi Arabia, and many experts fear for the survival of the regime and all the consequences that would result if Saudi oil is removed from the market, even if for a little bit.

Finally, there is the accusation of the general heavy handedness with which the US forces have battled the insurgency. The Americans cut off water supplies and electricity to Fallujah before the invasion, clearly violating the Geneva Conventions. There is also the heavy bombardment which many consider a disspropotionate use of force, which is believed to have killed many thousands of civilians left behind. Nothing in your post addresses any of these issues.
Unaha-Closp
22-11-2004, 13:42
Quite right, principles don't matter so long as he gets paid at the end of the day. I mean what's the use of principles when your meant to do the task at hand? I don't think the army would quite like you to stop mid-battle and actually scrutinise your principles as to why your actually fighting. Good gravy, that could actually indicate free thought which could just be contagious to the other soldiers fighting with you.


It is not the soldiers place to question the orders as given by the representative government of the USA. He can judge his own actions sure, but he will almost always benefit his buddies and command.

Wishing the army will stop fighting is like wishing the conquored people throw flowers on the invading army, could happen either way.

Only way this Army is going to stop fighting is if the representaives of the American people tell it to.
Beloved and Hope
22-11-2004, 13:44
What? No comments on this???

Less letter writing more killing.
Refused Party Program
22-11-2004, 19:30
Could this be your ever elusive source?

http://www.thegreenside.com/story.asp?ContentID=11151

What??? No comments on this, Eutrusca??? :D
Refused Party Program
22-11-2004, 21:02
No???
JiangGuo
22-11-2004, 23:38
*Refers to the original post*

How do we even know this letter is an authentic article? This could easily be a piece of fiction. No names, or even ranks. And this guy (woman?) 'just' got out of (whats left of) Fallujah?

It seems remarkably coherent, not someone who should just be getting shakes from combat stress (I'm sure the US Armed Forces has a euphemism for it). Writing long poetic letters (or e-mail) home to Dad wouldn't exactly be on the list of top priorities.
Eutrusca
23-11-2004, 00:17
Could this be your ever elusive source?

http://www.thegreenside.com/story.asp?ContentID=11151

Looks like it! :)

Thank you.
Eutrusca
23-11-2004, 00:26
Quite right, principles don't matter so long as he gets paid at the end of the day. I mean what's the use of principles when your meant to do the task at hand? I don't think the army would quite like you to stop mid-battle and actually scrutinise your principles as to why your actually fighting. Good gravy, that could actually indicate free thought which could just be contagious to the other soldiers fighting with you.

Military personnel always have the option of leaving the service at the end of their comittment, voicing their concerns about their mission to the chain of command ( as well as to the Inspector General's Corps or through the Chaplain's Corps ), or even of disobeying an order they feel to be illegal. As a matter of fact, failure to disobey an illegal order is grounds for Court Martial.

The necessity to accomplish the mission and to maintain unit cohesiveness in order to do so do not permit of stopping in "mid-battle." That way lies death.

In all of my contacts with military personnel who are currently on active duty, or who have returned Stateside from Iraq or Afghanistan, not one has indicated they believe any order they have been given was an illegal one, although several have expressed misgivings about the war in Iraq.

In my own experience, US military personnel are one of the few remaining repositories of true idealism, comittment and courage. These fine young men and women are devoted to each other, their mission, and their Country.
Eutrusca
23-11-2004, 00:31
What??? No comments on this, Eutrusca??? :D

Sometimes you need to allow a bit more time for a response. Some of us have things we need to do other than posting on NS.
Eutrusca
23-11-2004, 00:39
*Refers to the original post*

How do we even know this letter is an authentic article? This could easily be a piece of fiction. No names, or even ranks. And this guy (woman?) 'just' got out of (whats left of) Fallujah?

It seems remarkably coherent, not someone who should just be getting shakes from combat stress (I'm sure the US Armed Forces has a euphemism for it). Writing long poetic letters (or e-mail) home to Dad wouldn't exactly be on the list of top priorities.

1. As to the letter's authenticity, please see the link so gratiously provied by another poster above.

2. It's common practice to not post information about military personnel in time of war.

3. Most military personnel can actually write quite coherent letters.

4. Few military personnel ever get "shakes from combat stess." It's known by those with adequate information as "battle fatigue."

5. The letter didn't seem to be "poetic" to me.

6. Mail to and from home is vital to the morale of military personnel and is a very high priority for both the writers and the military itself.