NationStates Jolt Archive

My friend, on Friday, asked me to pray for her best-friend whom she has known for over 12 years.

She asked me to pray for her beause she is 19 and found out on Thursday that she has cancer in her lymph node (I think it's that, the cancer is basically in her neck) and, because I'm religious, she asked me to pray for.

However, normally I wouldn't do anything like that. I'm not really into the whole idea of praying for someone I don't know to try and, effectively, cure them of cancer.

What I was wondering is have you people ever done anything like this, has it worked and do you believe in the power of prayer?

I don't. I'm not strictly atheist, but I don't pray. Though its sad that someone as young as 19 can get an illness like that, It's up to the girl not to give up and explore every avenue.

(If it was God's desire to change things like this, wouldn't he cure everyone he could without being asked?)

After my mother was diagnosed with a malignant glioblastoma (tumour between left/right hemispheres of brain), a co-worker who was a fervent Catholic offered to pray for her. Although my family is not Catholic, I nonetheless said, 'by all means do so'.

Prayer can be like a focusing agent for human potential energies - why not make use of it? If you can tap into the energies of many praying people, why not do it? The more the merrier.

I don't know if it matters whether you actually know the person or not. There is one solution to that predicament, though - drop by for a visit with your friend sometime.

I don't know if it matters whether you actually know the person or not. There is one solution to that predicament, though - drop by for a visit with your friend sometime.

Yes, actually, an in person show of sympathy could be good to boost her spirits if nothing else. Good idea.

Back in the day, when I was a Catholic, my 2nd cousin got cancer. I prayed for maybe an hour, he was dead the next day. Prayer is a bullshit method, its just psycological cleansing. Theres no reality to it.

why would you need or want to pray for somebody? if they are supposed to get well then God is already going to ensure that they will get well, and if they aren't supposed to get well then praying for their health would be praying that God's will NOT be done. if they are supposed to be coping with their illness effectively then God will ensure that they are coping with it effectively, and if they are not then praying for them to have additional strength or courage would be praying to thwart God's will.

Dear people,

God answers prayers. In 1971, I was "dead" for some number of minutes. The electric paddles didn't work. Finally, the ER doctor shoved a needle of something into my heart and it restarted.

Ten days later, I came out of a coma.

During that time, many people prayed for me to get better. They prayed in the name of Jesus to God. They sought to use Jesus as an intercessor on my behalf.

Some years ago, I was diagnosed as having Hepatits C. I went through a series of treatments of shots that seemed to work. After stopping the treatment, the virus reappeared. I was given a new round, and now the virus has shown zero amount for more than 18 months.

Prayer works. God answers everyone's prayers. It is worthwhile to pray for other people.

Sometimes, however, our prayers may not be answered as we think they should be answered. We must learn to accept the will of God, while we continue to make choices. The way of God is beyond our ability to comprehend while we remain on earth.

Dear people,

God answers prayers. In 1971, I was "dead" for some number of minutes. The electric paddles didn't work. Finally, the ER doctor shoved a needle of something into my heart and it restarted.

Ten days later, I came out of a coma.

During that time, many people prayed for me to get better. They prayed in the name of Jesus to God. They sought to use Jesus as an intercessor on my behalf.

Some years ago, I was diagnosed as having Hepatits C. I went through a series of treatments of shots that seemed to work. After stopping the treatment, the virus reappeared. I was given a new round, and now the virus has shown zero amount for more than 18 months.

Prayer works. God answers everyone's prayers. It is worthwhile to pray for other people.

no offense, but your examples tend to suggest that MEDICINE works. the ER doctor saved your life, the medical technology kept you alive while in a coma so your body could recover, and later on medicine successfully treated your virus.

if prayer is so effective, why did you need medical treatment for your conditions? if prayer convinced God to save you, why were you being treated by doctors instead of simply relying on God's good will to keep you going?

i usually don't give people flack for believing in prayer, but it slightly ticks me off when people fail to give credit to the men and women who actually saved their lives: the doctors, nurses, and medical professionals who spend their lives preserving and improving human life.

no offense, but your examples tend to suggest that MEDICINE works. the ER doctor saved your life, the medical technology kept you alive while in a coma so your body could recover, and later on medicine successfully treated your virus.

if prayer is so effective, why did you need medical treatment for your conditions? if prayer convinced God to save you, why were you being treated by doctors instead of simply relying on God's good will to keep you going?

i usually don't give people flack for believing in prayer, but it slightly ticks me off when people fail to give credit to the men and women who actually saved their lives: the doctors, nurses, and medical professionals who spend their lives preserving and improving human life.

I agree.

I believe in medicine, doctors, but I also believe in the supernatural.

But When there's no hope left, all other options are gone, and the doctor gives you a short time to live, the only thing you can do left is to pray.

It wouldn't hurt if it didn't work. Neither would it, if it did.

I've had friends parents died even though we prayed for them.
But to the same account there are those that did recover as well.

But When there's no hope left, all other options are gone, and the doctor gives you a short time to live, the only thing you can do left is to pray.

It wouldn't hurt if it didn't work. Neither would it, if it did.

you sure? what if you pray to the wrong God, and the real God gets angry and decides you don't deserve to live after all? what if the real God is so mad at you for worshipping a false diety that He decides to send you to Hell, as well? seems like there are plenty of risks with prayer, to me.

Yes, I have seen prayer work. It isnt a formula, nor is it magic. But prayer can heal someone. Doctors and science are important, medicine heals as well so I am not saying do one in favor of another. Prayer can and does heal.

Dear people,

God answers prayers. In 1971, I was "dead" for some number of minutes. The electric paddles didn't work. Finally, the ER doctor shoved a needle of something into my heart and it restarted.

Ten days later, I came out of a coma.

During that time, many people prayed for me to get better. They prayed in the name of Jesus to God. They sought to use Jesus as an intercessor on my behalf.

Some years ago, I was diagnosed as having Hepatits C. I went through a series of treatments of shots that seemed to work. After stopping the treatment, the virus reappeared. I was given a new round, and now the virus has shown zero amount for more than 18 months.

Prayer works. God answers everyone's prayers. It is worthwhile to pray for other people.

Sometimes, however, our prayers may not be answered as we think they should be answered. We must learn to accept the will of God, while we continue to make choices. The way of God is beyond our ability to comprehend while we remain on earth.

You were saved because of advances in medical science and techniques, it had nothing to do with prayers (though if it makes you feel better to believe it did then good for you and don't listen to cynical old me)
If there was a God involved you wouldn't have got ill in the first place, unless of course he wasn't the nice God that everyone says he is.

you sure? what if you pray to the wrong God, and the real God gets angry and decides you don't deserve to live after all? what if the real God is so mad at you for worshipping a false diety that He decides to send you to Hell, as well? seems like there are plenty of risks with prayer, to me.

So what do you propose?

And Why the bitterness?

Please forgive me for being unclear. God is all powerful. Humans pray to God for various things, including to continue our life in this dimension of time and space.

Doctors can use tools of medicine to achieve certain goals. The laws of science, however, hold true because that is the way God lets such things exist.

People become injured and suffer from illness. Eventually, we all will die from an earthly perspective of what happens to our bodies. Our souls, however, continue in another realm. If we are Christians, we go to Heaven.

In the two instances I shared, I tried to convey that I have survived from injuries and illness. I am thankful to God for that, and I am thankful for the people who prayed to God on my behalf.

I thank God that He allowed the doctors who treated me to have the knowledge of science to reach the end which was reached. I pray that God lets me do His will while I am here, and to continue to do as He wants when I go to Heaven.

Beyond this time and space, there are other dimensions. God rules in all dimensions, in all universes.

He has given us all a chance for redemption from the sins we have committed on earth. My recommendation is to accept Jesus as your Savior. Beyond that, live as you know you should. Love all people, even your enemies.

Pray to God for those things which you believe He wants. Let God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.

hmmmm, i'm not too sure myself. i don't think a prayer can cause a miracle by any means. but if you pray for yourself - i think maybe you settle your own mind, give yourself some inner confidence and stand a chance of achieving what you prayed for (the best results you can get in exams, for example). i don't believe in praying for other people. frankly, i don't believe in prayer... i just think maybe religious people get something out of it.

my dad had a heart attack - claimed to have seen some weird things when he was flatlining - so i can't say i'm atheistic... more agnostic if anything because i do hope there is something, but hope and faith are different things. nevertheless, i don't remember praying for my dad... and he still survived.

little more than a placebo when it comes to health.

The concept to remember is that prayer is a tool. It is a means of communicating with God. It is not the cure. God hears prayers. And He responds.

Therefore, a prayer can cause God to allow a miracle to occur.

While I am agnostic, I do believe that prayer does have potential . . .

Prayer does help. Just a means of focusing ones self, its not necessarily a religious thing.

So what do you propose?

And Why the bitterness?
why do you assume i am bitter? i was simply being practical; there is no way of knowing which God or gods (if any) is in charge, and no way of knowing what might or might not anger him/her/it/them. my only point was that the claim that prayer "can't hurt anything" is only accurate if one believes that prayer is not heard or payed attention to at all...if you choose to believe that prayer has a chance of working you must also, logically, accept that it has a chance of hurting. i don't propose anything more than a logical approach to this issue, and i'm certainly not "bitter" about it.

Please forgive me for being unclear. God is all powerful. Humans pray to God for various things, including to continue our life in this dimension of time and space.

so you think that God changes what He plans to do based on human requests? isn't God supposedly all-knowing and all-good? doesn't that suggest that He will do what He knows is best, even if it's not what humans might want? so doesn't praying for health constitute a waste of time, in that case? if your health is what is best, the God is going to cause you to be healthy or to recover, whether you pray for it or not, and if your health is not what is best then your prayer will not impact His implimentation of the best possible course.


In the two instances I shared, I tried to convey that I have survived from injuries and illness. I am thankful to God for that, and I am thankful for the people who prayed to God on my behalf.

might you consider expressing thankfulness toward the people who actually saved your life? perhaps the doctors, nurses, and technicians who kept you from dying might deserve a moment of gratitude?


I thank God that He allowed the doctors who treated me to have the knowledge of science to reach the end which was reached. I pray that God lets me do His will while I am here, and to continue to do as He wants when I go to Heaven.

if He wants you to be alive and doing His will then you will remain alive to do His will, and your prayer will have nothing to do with His decision. if He wishes you to die then you will die, and your prayer will have nothing to do with it. why pray for health if it is not His will to grant it? are you not then just praying that his will not be done?


Pray to God for those things which you believe He wants.

why would you pray for Him to do the things He is already going to do? is this just some kind of celestial apple polishing, cheering on the big guy so that He likes you better? is it really worth it to spend time just telling God whatever He wants to hear? praying for the things He already wants seems a little bit futile, not to mention obsequious.


Let God's will be done on earth as it is in Heaven.
if your God exists, then His will shall be done regardless of your prayers. why not save your time?

Prayer is not a matter of demanding or requesting that a certain outcome occur and basing your faith on that outcome. Prayer for someone who is ill is an act of prevailing prayer on behalf of that person(s).

Luke 18:1-8.(NIV) Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. He said: "In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared about men. And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, `Grant me justice against my adversary.' "For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, `Even though I don't fear God or care about men, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won't eventually wear me out with her coming!'" And the Lord said, "Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"

Prayer is an act of contrition and a plea to the will of God. Prayer for the person who is the subject of this thread should not only be for their return to health, but, if it is the will of God that they should pass on, then it should also be for their eternal Grace. It is an asking for a little extra measure of God's love to be bestowed on this person in their time of need.

Even if you do not know the person, the sharing of pure love (as Jesus') is a fundamental of the Christian belief. Do you think that "love thy neighbor" is meant literally or in a much broader scope?

Prayer has been shown to be effective in many cases. Leaving aside the religious reasons, the reason being is the psychological boost it gives a person. Thinking positively has long been proved to be very important in overcoming or minimising most major illnesses. Your thinking has a huge influence on your health and immune system.
So if your friend is going to feel better and more postive about herself and her illness with you praying for her, go for it. I'm not saying the act of prayer will do anything (especially as I'm atheist) but for her, the fact you believe she has a future will be a big positive boost for her.
Look at the converse of telling her that you're not going to pray for her as you can't see it helping. Imagine how depressing and upsetting it would be to hear that her best friend is basically writing her off. Once you start thinking like this, your immune system drops and the cancer gets worse.

i dont think that there's ne thing wrong with praying 4 sum1 whom u dont know, just as Z says above.
Ive have prayed 4 god to help all those whom desirve it & 2 help guide those who r misguided, i wud also like him 2 deal fair justice, but by praying 4 it/them, it doesnt mean that i know the above. im just hoping 2 god that the above r being done or will be done @ some time or another. (However In My Opinion praying doesnt necesseraly change things.)
its just like when sum1 contributes 2 charity, it wudnt be wrong 2 give charity 2 those whom u may not presonaly know (such as victims of war) but if u do end up helpin sum1 who dont desirve it, in this instance in the form of prayer, than it wudnt cast bad light upon u because u had gud intentions (however in reality that doesnt always help,lol, but nothin can go wrong with a sincere prayer) :)

If someone out there can tell me they have seen a prayer work,I would like to know. I know of no occurrence that has been accredited to prayer,or can someone show me some proof?

Although I have never seen prayer preform "miracles" or majic or things like that, there are scientific studies that prove that prayer can help.

I do not remember the name of the study, but it was in either newsweek or time or something like that. Anyways, scientists took 2 cultures of the same bacteria and prayed for one of them, and found that the prayed-for bacteria actually showed faster growth, and more resistance to harmful agents.

I don't want to debate religiously, I have my own beliefs, you have yours, let's leave it at that, but there is evidence out there that prayer can help. Also, the power of positive thinking has many benefits, so just beleving that prayer will help you can actually help you.

I'd say do it, because it really can't hurt. If you keep it nondenominational, you don't run the risk of praying to the wrong god and pissing off the real one!

I don't pray, and I don't believe that faith healing or anything of the sort works. If it does, it's luck, or caused by something other than the prayer. Hmm...would getting better because you beleive that prayer works count as a placebo effect? Because that's really what I see it as - a placebo effect.

That aside, I'm atheist. There is no higher being that can answer said prayers. And if there was, what would make it suddenly go back on its desicion to give the person an illness? At any rate, I trust in modern medical treatments. They have been PROVEN to work. Why would I trust something that probably will not work, meaning that I'd either be dead or still ill?

Also, for those talking about Jesus and God and how they're merciful...

-"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34) "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." (Luke 12:49-51) So...that's "peace" now?
-"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) Jesus wants you to hate your family. Yup, real savior here...(/sarcasm)
-"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." The bible wants you to be happy when dashing babies against rocks. Ugh...
-"And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. . . . a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous. Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbacked, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire . . . he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them." (Leviticus 21:16-23) Sorry disabled people, but you can't be in church because GOD SAYS SO. *coughsarcasmcough*
-"And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause." (Job 2:3) God tortured Job. There was no cause of it. Satan basically dared him to do.
-"And he [Elisha] went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them." (II Kings 2:23-24) So...god killed 42 children because they teased somebody? Yup, real merciful...
-And he [God] said [to Abraham], Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of." (Genesis 22:2) "For thou shalt not delay to offer the first of thy ripe fruits, and of thy liquors; the firstborn of thy sons shalt thou give unto me." (Exodus 22:29) "But the king [David] took the two sons of Rizpah . . . and the five sons of Michal . . . and he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord: and they fell all seven together, and were put to death in the days of harvest . . . And after that God was intreated for the land." (II Samuel 21:8-14) "We are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ . . . But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God." (Hebrews 10:10-12) God demanded LOTs of human sacrifice. Hmm...
-"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." (Judges 1:19) Not relevent, but I thought it was funny. God can't repel iron chariots!
-"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." God made evil. Now you know who's to blame.
-(Numbers 16:1-50) God kills 15,000 of his OWN PEOPLE for questioning Moses. Yup, real just.(/sarcasm)
-"For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God." (Exodus 34:14) Your god's name is Jealous, NOT Jehovah.
-"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds." Christains aren't supposed to let those of other faiths into their homes. Jeez...

In short, actually do some research instead of beleiving whatever your preacher tells you.

Okay, i found another study along the lines of the one i just outlined, this time w/details. here it is, just FYI -

Jean Barry, a physician-researcher in Bordeaux, France, chooses to work with a destructive fungus, Rhizoctonia Solani. He asked 10 people to try to inhibit its growth merely through their intentions at a distance of 1.5 meter.

The experiment involved control Petri dishes with fungi that were not influenced in addition to those that were. The laboratory conditions were carefully controlled regarding the genetic purity of the fungi and the composition of the culture medium, the relative humidity, and the conditions of temperature and lighting.

The control petri dishes and the influenced dishes were treated identically, except for the negative intentions directed toward the latter. A person who was blind to the details of the experiment handled various manipulations. The influences simply took their stations at the 1.5 meters and were free to act as they saw fit for their own concentration. For 15 minutes each subject was assigned five experimental and five control dishes. Of the ten subjects three to six subjects worked during a session, and there were nine sessions.

Measurement of the fungi colony on the Petri dish was obtained by outlining the boundary of the colony on a sheet of thin paper. Again, someone who did not know the aim of the experiment or the identity of the Petri dishes did this. The outlines were then cut out and weighed under condition of constant temperature and humidity. When the growth in 195 experimental dishes was compared to their corresponding controls, it was significantly retarded in 151 dishes. The possibility that these results could be explained by chance was less than one in a thousand.

Dr. Daniel I. Benor, who has evaluated all the known experiments in the field of distant healing in his landmark work healing research, calls this study "Highly significant."
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Verify if u want, search Google - power of prayer scientific study - and pick first choice.

Dr. Larry Dossey, a physician, author and lecturer with whom I served in Vietnam, has written several books on this subject. In a recent book he has the following to say:

"The evidence is overwhelming that mind behaves in a non-local way. If one honors the data, then one must conclude that the local model is incomplete. It is a matter of being a good scientist. The mind as defined in the 'local mind' model used by science is considered to be just the result of the anatomy and physiology of the brain. It is fixed in space and localized in time. According to this model, local minds do not wander about; they stay fixed and at home in the present moment. It is an individual and isolated 'me.'

"The non-local model ... is not confined in space and time to the brain and body, although it may work through the brain and body. And it is not confined to the present moment. Infinite, and by inference immortal, eternal, omnipresent - all of these are consequences of anything that is non-local, not just mind. As a result, if mind is non-local, there is one mind, or Universal Mind, which ... the West has regarded as the Soul.

"The Spindrift Prayer Studies show that there is an inherent tendency toward health. When one prays in a non-directed way, then people just get healthier. If we ... acknowledge that there is a non-local event going on as far as the mind is concerned, then what we call mind-body medicine takes on a new twist. What I imply is that your mind can affect my body, and my mind can affect your body. Mind is no longer seen as a single thing."

In the Spindrift Experiments, researchers documented the efficacy of prayer in increasing seed germination rates. Under a variety of controlled conditions, the prayed-for seeds germinated faster than control groups. In fact, the more the seeds were stressed, using salt water and extreme temperatures, the faster they germinated when prayed-for. Spindrift researchers found that non-directed prayer was more effective than praying for a specific result. These studies demonstrate another non-local characteristic of mind - the ability to affect systems at a distance.

At the risk of inviting more flames from those on here who seem to have some sort of problem with me, you can find my essay on this subject here ...

http://paradigmassociates.org/ParadigmSpirituality.html

Prayer should never be used at the only source of healing for a person by any means, especially is there are other avenues in medicine that can help them. But when a person is going through these other avenues of medicine, dealing this something difficult like disease, sickness, etc. It is always reassuring to know that people are sending good thoughts to that person, if not the people that care for them. Your prayers won't cure your friend's friend whom you don't know, but they may give your friend the reassurance to be supportive of their friend during this rough time since that seems to be very important to your friend.

I really don't understand the logic behind praying. God is almighty and knows everything, therefore he already knows what are your wish, before you pray. If God changes his mind after your prayer, then he admits that he was wrong to not do anything before. God cannot make any error.

I really don't understand the logic behind praying. God is almighty and knows everything, therefore he already knows what are your wish, before you pray. If God changes his mind after your prayer, then he admits that he was wrong to not do anything before. God cannot make any error.

Interesting point, however prayer, in the Christian theology at any rate, is more for building the faith of the person praying than anything else.

In empirical terms, prayer has been shown to substantively affect the health of those prayed for, questions of God asside.

[QUOTE=Zooke]
Prayer is an act of contrition and a plea to the will of God. Prayer for the person who is the subject of this thread should not only be for their return to health, but, if it is the will of God that they should pass on, then it should also be for their eternal Grace. It is an asking for a little extra measure of God's love to be bestowed on this person in their time of need.

[QUOTE]

My emphasis.

Please explain how a supposedly infinite and all-loving diety could give a "little extra measure" of love to someone. Wouldn't that defy the whole infinite thing. If not where does the extra helping come from? Is it taken away from someone else? If so, couldn't praying be seen as a form of selfishness?

It would seem that if one wants to believe in the infiniteness of god then prayer is and can be nothing more than an acknowledgement of such infiniteness (which wouldn't bring about any effect unless such an infinite being suffered an inordinate amount of pride and just wanted its ass kissed, which seems to go against the standard definitions of god).

If one wants to believe that prayer has an effect then one has to either give up the idea of god's infiniteness or acknowledge that the effects of prayer - if any- are psychological or a tapping of the human mind into universal energies.

Yah... pray 4 her... i pray 4 ppl n it works...

Please explain how a supposedly infinite and all-loving diety could give a "little extra measure" of love to someone. Wouldn't that defy the whole infinite thing. If not where does the extra helping come from? Is it taken away from someone else? If so, couldn't praying be seen as a form of selfishness?

It would seem that if one wants to believe in the infiniteness of god then prayer is and can be nothing more than an acknowledgement of such infiniteness (which wouldn't bring about any effect unless such an infinite being suffered an inordinate amount of pride and just wanted its ass kissed, which seems to go against the standard definitions of god).

If one wants to believe that prayer has an effect then one has to either give up the idea of god's infiniteness or acknowledge that the effects of prayer - if any- are psychological or a tapping of the human mind into universal energies.
exactly my point. either prayer has no effect other than the placebo effect, or God does not have the qualities Christians claim He has (or He simply doesn't exist).

if i recall, in all repeatable studies, there was no effect.

there was one study that showed that prayer had an effect, but they tried to repeat it and were unsuccessful. it's possible that the one study lucked out in picking people who were going to survive anyways to pray for. or it was not carried out properly/the results were tampered with.

if i recall, in all repeatable studies, there was no effect.

there was one study that showed that prayer had an effect, but they tried to repeat it and were unsuccessful. it's possible that the one study lucked out in picking people who were going to survive anyways to pray for. or it was not carried out properly/the results were tampered with.

That's interesting. I remember hearing about the original study and thinking
:confused:. I just couldn't for the life of me see how that would be.

I'm not surprised when they tried it again it didn't work.

Back in the day, when I was a Catholic, my 2nd cousin got cancer. I prayed for maybe an hour, he was dead the next day. Prayer is a bullshit method, its just psycological cleansing. Theres no reality to it.
Oh please. You were never a very steadfast christian, if losing your 2nd cousin made you turn away. If you didn't care about God's will, and only asked for what YOU wanted, then you missed the whole point of prayer. And believe me, I know far more about loss than any person should have to.

exactly my point. either prayer has no effect other than the placebo effect, or God does not have the qualities Christians claim He has (or He simply doesn't exist).
Or perhaps you simply didn't notice where it was said that "Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test." I don't doubt you can't do a study on it. You should believe through faith, not by testing God to see if he'll prove his existence.

All this talk about the power of prayer.

What about the power of not praying.

Think of all the time people around the world spent praying. If this time was used to increase ones productivity – either through educating ones self, or employment, or whatever... Imagine if you spent all that prayer time studying – maybe you yourself could find the cure for cancer. Or if everyone spent prayer time working and donated the proceeds to cancer research.

The possibilities are endless – the forgone opportunities when one prays are astounding.

Imagine if you spent all that prayer time studying – maybe you yourself could find the cure for cancer. Or if everyone spent prayer time working and donated the proceeds to cancer research.

ur right. God does not exist, i mean, why belive something thats written in a stupid book? eh, CE. :headbang:

Dear people,

God answers prayers. In 1971, I was "dead" for some number of minutes. The electric paddles didn't work. Finally, the ER doctor shoved a needle of something into my heart and it restarted.

Ten days later, I came out of a coma.

During that time, many people prayed for me to get better. They prayed in the name of Jesus to God. They sought to use Jesus as an intercessor on my behalf.

Some years ago, I was diagnosed as having Hepatits C. I went through a series of treatments of shots that seemed to work. After stopping the treatment, the virus reappeared. I was given a new round, and now the virus has shown zero amount for more than 18 months.

Prayer works. God answers everyone's prayers. It is worthwhile to pray for other people.

Sometimes, however, our prayers may not be answered as we think they should be answered. We must learn to accept the will of God, while we continue to make choices. The way of God is beyond our ability to comprehend while we remain on earth.


god, most certainly, does not answer everyone's prayers.
probably doesn't answer most of them

Is it not silly to pretend that we as humans can possibly understand the nature or will of God. We even talk about him as if he could be explained.
and that is only if there even is a god in the sense that we think there is a god

Prayer does work , praying is like talking to God.

God talks to people in various ways, like through visions, reading the bible and somtimes even an Audible voice!

I just wanted to voice my opinion to the few posts about the power of not-prayer. Time spent not praying would be better than time spent praying if prayer was the only thing people "wasted" time on. Everyone wastes time in their own way. Everyone on this forum is equally guilty of typing on an internet forum instead of studying medicine. Others watch TV and others drink five nights a week.

Unlike many ways people spent their free time or unwind, prayer's a damn good use of time. You don't even need to really believe in God. Call it meditation if you want, but there is ordinary power in prayer. It quiets and focuses your mind, and allows you to clear the cobwebs out of your head. Others, myself included, believe that additional power comes from prayer. But even without that supernatural belief, prayer can be worthwhile to anyone. It is not a waste of time.

Let me clarify…

Yes. There are two purposes to prayer. Firstly, as a way to relax, meditate, etc – which everyone has to do. If prayer is the most efficient way to do so, then it makes sense to pray. Secondly, and this is the point I was making: Prayer is used in an attempt to reach a certain outcome. For example – people pray for a cure to cancer. My point was, imagine the possibilities if the combined time spent praying for such outcomes was spent either directly (curing cancer yourself) or indirectly (donating to cancer research through work) contributing to that outcome.

Let me clarify…

Yes. There are two purposes to prayer. Firstly, as a way to relax, meditate, etc – which everyone has to do. If prayer is the most efficient way to do so, then it makes sense to pray. Secondly, and this is the point I was making: Prayer is used in an attempt to reach a certain outcome. For example – people pray for a cure to cancer. My point was, imagine the possibilities if the combined time spent praying for such outcomes was spent either directly (curing cancer yourself) or indirectly (donating to cancer research through work) contributing to that outcome.

I understand your point. But to be fair, prayer should not be used to recieve something. It's supposed to be talking to God and bringing yourself closer to him. Some of the most universally corrupted religions (by today's standards, anyway) centered around "trading" with Gods instead of seeking enlightenment or redeption through them. I'm specifically thinking of the religion of anchient Carthage.

Carthage rocked in many ways, but their religion became a product of their culture which was based around trade. Trade is a really great foundation for a society, but their religion became merchantile (pardon spelling). They expected direct rewards for human sacrifices or self-mutliation or whatever. So to sum up, I remain confident in saying that most people don't really understand prayer.

Or perhaps you simply didn't notice where it was said that "Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test." I don't doubt you can't do a study on it. You should believe through faith, not by testing God to see if he'll prove his existence.
LOL, what a nice clause! i think i will write a book about a magical being that controls everything, but then add the clause that if you try to test him it won't work...therefore everybody should just believe no matter what, and not question the plausibility of my creation!

do you people actually buy that tripe?! i mean, really?! that's just about the saddest thing i have ever heard.

My prayers didn't work by the way. I found out that she has got 'Hodgkins Disease' and will have to have chemotherapy.