NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a long video of the action in Falluja. The cameraman was risking his life by taking this video. For those of you unfamiliar with combat, these soldiers were taking incoming rounds, which is why they were returning fire. If there wasn't so much noise in the action, you would be able to hear the incoming rounds zipping by.

http://ParadigmAssociates.org/falluja.asf

This is the "real deal."

good video

damn

brave enough. :sniper:
I didnt see them killing any human though :/

It appears that the US is going to have to destroy a lot of cities to "win" this battle for Iraq. I wouldn't call it a war on terrorism, because that would be a misnomer.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/covers/1101031006/images/main_splash.jpg

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101031006/

On May 1, off the coast of California, president George W. Bush landed in flying gear on the deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln—which sported a banner reading mission accomplished—and said, " Major combat operations in Iraq have ended." The war, said Bush, had been carried out " with a combination of precision and speed and boldness the enemy did not expect, and the world had not seen before." But the mission wasn't accomplished then, and it still is not. The reconstruction of Iraq has proved far more difficult than any official assumed it would be.

BTW, the above article was written on October 6, 2003 and now it is November 20, 2004.

Mission Accomplished?

I offered the video to give people on this board a chance to see what combat looks like, not to reopen arguments which have been rehashed so many times that everyone knows what each other is going to say.

I haven't downloaded the video yet. But this is good stuff no matter which side you are on and should not be construed for political usage.

Thanks Etrusca, for some good shit.

Now that I've watched it I got two things to say:

1. I'm glad I don't live in Iraq.
2. Those SOB's don't stand a chance. We've got some tough bastards with big guns out there.

I offered the video to give people on this board a chance to see what combat looks like, not to reopen arguments which have been rehashed so many times that everyone knows what each other is going to say.

No, you where trolling.

You really think that thank's to your video, you are the guy that "gives this board a chance to see what combat is like"? Wow, you really are overestimating yourself and underestimating most people.

No, you where trolling.
No, he linked us to a video of combat in Faluja. What's your problem?

Thanks for the link Eutrusca.

No, he linked us to a video of combat in Faluja. What's your problem?

Thanks for the link Eutrusca.
i know eutrusca and obviously so does he, this isnt to jsut show people whats going on, its influential garbage (no matter how good or bad or irrelevant it is) and eutrusca repeatedly does this shit, hes a troll

I've seen that one before. But it still kicks ass.

i know eutrusca and obviously so does he, this isnt to jsut show people whats going on, its influential garbage (no matter how good or bad or irrelevant it is) and eutrusca repeatedly does this shit, hes a troll

No, you are the troll, I personally am very glad he posted it, and I would also like to point out that there is nothing political about the video. The only politicizing that has been done has been by you and Ferrata.

I see nothing on that video that I haven't seen on the news channels. It's merely a 'Go USA' link. Someone glibly said they couldn't see people being hit. Don't worry, hundreds of Iraqis were killed and maimed for Senor Brush. Sad.

No, he linked us to a video of combat in Faluja. What's your problem?

Thanks for the link Eutrusca.

Puppet :p

No, you are the troll, I personally am very glad he posted it, and I would also like to point out that there is nothing political about the video. The only politicizing that has been done has been by you and Ferrata.
If you think that there is "nothing political about the video", then you haven't been reading the news about the US destruction of Fallujah.

BTW, where are the 300,000 Iraqi residents staying while "their" city is being destroyed by foreigners? A better question might be, will they have anything to come back to?

And to the other poster, how can you consider this "good shit"?

No, you are the troll, I personally am very glad he posted it, and I would also like to point out that there is nothing political about the video. The only politicizing that has been done has been by you and Ferrata.

Ok, enleighten the class how Chess and Via are politicizing?
Saying that Etrusca's "beliefs" are wrong (the self overestimation about "knowing war thank's to his post")?
Wow, that is so arrogant of you.

Puppet :p
Gah! I'm discovered! :eek:

Gah! I'm discovered! :eek:

Well, most of us knew it, even I :rolleyes: The Least Well Known :p

Ok, enleighten the class how Chess and Via are politicizing?
Saying that Etrusca's "beliefs" are wrong (the self overestimation about "knowing war thank's to his post")?
Wow, that is so arrogant of you.

This is a long video of the action in Falluja. The cameraman was risking his life by taking this video. For those of you unfamiliar with combat, these soldiers were taking incoming rounds, which is why they were returning fire. If there wasn't so much noise in the action, you would be able to hear the incoming rounds zipping by.

Point out the instance in this where Etrusca puts forth any political beliefs. He posted no beliefs to be considered wrong and therefore did not attempt to politicize this video. Therefore, by saying that Etrusca's views are wrong, they were the ones who politicized it.

It was Chess Squares and Via Ferrata who engaged in insults and Globes R Us who construed it as a US propaganda tool. Only the most jaded individuals could interpret a video of the destruction of a city as a propaganda tool.

But just dismiss me, you seem very prepared to jump on the bandwagon and deride anybody that casts the war in a positive light as a Bush puppet or a nationalistic moron.

Also, I never said anything arrogant, as you were the one who adopted the condescending tone.

Point out the instance in this where Etrusca puts forth any political beliefs. He posted no beliefs to be considered wrong and therefore did not attempt to politicize this video. Therefore, by saying that Etrusca's views are wrong, they were the ones who politicized it.
.

Noop, wrong, read the thread. You were.

Noop, wrong, read the thread. You were.

Both sides made big inferences on this one.

Although he did say this topic shouldnt be mucked up with politics. This however came after CanuckHaven made a post talking about how the US was going to have to do this elsewhere etc. etc.

It was the left that began with the insults. The right was just trying to stop it from being political, and once again the middle(me) is disgusted.

Both sides made big inferences on this one.

Although he did say this topic shouldnt be mucked up with politics. This however came after CanuckHaven made a post talking about how the US was going to have to do this elsewhere etc. etc.

It was the left that began with the insults. The right was just trying to stop it from being political, and once again the middle(me) is disgusted.

If you read my posts in the past or ask someone who knows, you will find that I am to the left of the spectrum.

But I am still amazed by the stubborness of people to constantly try to add political connotation to everything.

You're 100% right, "middle people like" (always strange when people say that about themselves) you saw that it were Etruscan and (specially) Vittos Ordination that made it political (posters intention) and a another "troll".

and Globes R Us who construed it as a US propaganda tool. [/QUOTE]

I most certainly did not infer it was a propoganda tool. I used it myself for my own 'propoganda. There's a difference.

If you read my posts in the past or ask someone who knows, you will find that I am to the left of the spectrum.

But I am still amazed by the stubborness of people to constantly try to add political connotation to everything.

Ah forgive me. I'm an RPer myself and only muck into this hellhole when something of interest pops up. Like this.

And just to say, I think it was a bit of a troll post but it wasn't offensive or untrue, just rather jingoistic.

Noop, wrong, read the thread. You were.

I haven't downloaded the video yet. But this is good stuff no matter which side you are on and should not be construed for political usage.

Thanks Etrusca, for some good shit.

Now that I've watched it I got two things to say:

1. I'm glad I don't live in Iraq.
2. Those SOB's don't stand a chance. We've got some tough bastards with big guns out there.

No, you are the troll, I personally am very glad he posted it, and I would also like to point out that there is nothing political about the video. The only politicizing that has been done has been by you and Ferrata.

Point out the instance in this where Etrusca puts forth any political beliefs. He posted no beliefs to be considered wrong and therefore did not attempt to politicize this video. Therefore, by saying that Etrusca's views are wrong, they were the ones who politicized it.

It was Chess Squares and Via Ferrata who engaged in insults and Globes R Us who construed it as a US propaganda tool. Only the most jaded individuals could interpret a video of the destruction of a city as a propaganda tool.

But just dismiss me, you seem very prepared to jump on the bandwagon and deride anybody that casts the war in a positive light as a Bush puppet or a nationalistic moron.

Also, I never said anything arrogant, as you were the one who adopted the condescending tone.

Just look at all of those politically motivated posts. I was so non-political that you completely misjudged my political leanings.

Ah forgive me. I'm an RPer myself and only muck into this hellhole when something of interest pops up. Like this.

I didn't mean to direct that at you, it was your post, however, that caused me to post. There is no forgiveness needed.

And just to say, I think it was a bit of a troll post but it wasn't offensive or untrue, just rather jingoistic.

Showing video footage of a battle wasnt jingoistic. He didnt put a patriotic message to it. He didnt support or disapprove of the actions. Granted it only shows the side of the US Marines but then again the other side hasnt been really kind to Journalists since that whole beheading incident awhile back..There wasnt even a word issued from the cameraman who stayed silent throughout the whole thing.

Also calling someone a troll out of the blue is an offensive statement. I doubt you'd like it if you posted something and someone called you a troll if you were trying to be scincere.

And just how can someone with a name like "Bushrepublican liars" call me a troll? That could be one of the biggest pot-kettle-blacks I have ever seen.

You guys are getting Bush and Fox News? Welcome to hell....

It must be possible to arrest him now that the former nation: "the US" is split in Jezusland and The US of Canada (the thinking part). Can't be that hard to arrest a rebell "president" that faked the elections again.

Sorry, you're smart, we know ,but we rightist and would be rightists like Andalousia have the right to act stupid like the ignorant rightists we are

hmm, no that must be you as the one of the CRWN, BTW you know that the average IQ of the Missisipi Republican voter is as low as 80? In the western world, this is seen as retard. But that is the problem with you CRWN, you are so dumb that you don't realise it anymore...

Next time you want to insult somebody, you ought to make sure you don't leave so much evidence of how big of a hypocrite you are just laying around.

And just how can someone with a name like "Bushrepublican liars" call me a troll? That could be one of the biggest pot-kettle-blacks I have ever seen.









Next time you want to insult somebody, you ought to make sure you don't leave so much evidence of how big of a hypocrite you are just laying around.


Following this thread a bit, but you don't proove anything with your quotes (most out of their context, I know the "search" tool to and know some of those discussions from wich you quoted). Still, you still are politicizing the topic (they are right about that) towards other people. Just read the thread and must say that you're wrong and are doing your utmost best to prove it.

Calling one a hypocrite is not that nice when you just gave the best example of one lying around. :)

My, centre, 2 cents.

Following this thread a bit, but you don't proove anything with your quotes (most out of their context, I know the "search" tool to and know some of those discussions from wich you quoted). Still, you still are politicizing the topic (they are right about that) towards other people. Just read the thread and must say that you're wrong and are doing your utmost best to prove it.

Calling one a hypocrite is not that nice when you just gave the best example of one lying around. :)

My, centre, 2 cents.

So those quotes by Bushrepublican liars are not obvious flamebait trolling?

But as for how I am adding any political connotation to this thread point it out. I seriously don't recognize it.

How can the destruction of a city NOT be political?

How can the wups of the soldiers not be construed as political?

If this video depicted Americans being taken down by Iraqis, would that also not be considered political?

Would someone still make the comment that this is "good shit", if it was Americans that were being pummeled?

This is the "real deal" alright. Sad but true. :eek:

How can the destruction of a city NOT be political?

How can the wups of the soldiers not be construed as political?

If this video depicted Americans being taken down by Iraqis, would that also not be considered political?

Would someone still make the comment that this is "good shit", if it was Americans that were being pummeled?

This is the "real deal" alright. Sad but true. :eek:

Because in all honesty I think when the soldier was going "WUP!" He wasnt thinking "Gee..I wonder the geo-political situation of Iraq..hold on..more fire from that that house.."

And ummm...I'm pretty sure there are folks ghoulish enough on this forum and dont deny it to say if Americans were being taken down by Iraqis someone would make a comment along the lines of good shit.

Not everything has to be political though. Thats up to folks who view the video. In your case it has everything to do with politics..to me its combat footage.

How can the destruction of a city NOT be political?

How can the wups of the soldiers not be construed as political?

If this video depicted Americans being taken down by Iraqis, would that also not be considered political?

Would someone still make the comment that this is "good shit", if it was Americans that were being pummeled?

This is the "real deal" alright. Sad but true. :eek:

This is what I mean by politicizing it. I said this was good shit because it shows a very up close and personal view of the war, much better than I normally get from my couch. I never said the war was good shit, in fact I have been very boisterous about my opposition to it.

Whether it is Americans or Iraqis doing the shooting it is horrifying. I grimace whenever I see our troops are being shot at. I grimaced when I heard the story about the marine who shot the unarmed Iraqi. This post, however, made no endorsement of the war, the video made no endorsement of the war, and I made no endorsement of the war. In fact, I wish more of our journalism was as silent on the policies behind the war as this one is. The more we hear about how good or bad the war is, the less we form our own opinions, and I for one would like to see one thread where someone didn't use journalism as a talking point for their side.

Not everything has to be political though. Thats up to folks who view the video. In your case it has everything to do with politics..to me its combat footage.

Exactly, but it is very hard for people to not politicize everything nowdays.

Hey Etrusca, these guys are slowly driving me conservative. This is two threads in a week that I have been on your side.

Not everything has to be political though. Thats up to folks who view the video. In your case it has everything to do with politics..to me its combat footage.
That's how I saw it. You can take it as rightwing propoganda, "Go America!"...or you can take it as leftwing propoganda, "Look at the destruction!"...

In any case, it's a close-up look at actual combat. Something that we don't usually get.

It's sadly indicative of Western culture that we consider this a video of "combat." Combat my arse, this is reminiscent of a video game - push the button, launch the rocket, house blows up, "WOOHOO!" I don't care what your political views are, people are dying.

And to the cocksmoker who said "Good shit", I've only got one thing to say: grow the f**k up.

It's sadly indicative of Western culture that we consider this a video of "combat." Combat my arse, this is reminiscent of a video game - push the button, launch the rocket, house blows up, "WOOHOO!" I don't care what your political views are, people are dying.

And to the cocksmoker who said "Good shit", I've only got one thing to say: grow the f**k up.

Goddamn it!!! I already explained that I called this good shit because it was good footage of the conflict, and something that you do not get to see very often. In fact, I have not seen footage that provided that good of a view of the war yet. I, in no way, endorsed the violence, the killing, or even the war in general.

Now watch what you say and read up before making an ass out of yourself.

I would watch it right now but I'm in the middle of downloading an MST3K episode.

I would watch it right now but I'm in the middle of downloading an MST3K episode.

If you do watch it, make sure that you can derive every last ounce of political meaning to it. You should probably have the star spangled banner playing in the background. And most importantly, assume that if anyone says anything concerning this video, you should immediately assume they are taking a hardline political view towards it. Then post a kneejerk reactionary response filled with explitives and faulty logic.

Combat my arse, this is reminiscent of a video game - push the button, launch the rocket, house blows up, "WOOHOO!" I

Umm..what can I say? I'm sorry our technology has progressed to the point where all it is, is just boom and they're dead? Honestly now just what is your complaint? The guy took footage and it is of combat. Nothing videogamish about it.

It's sadly indicative of Western culture that we consider this a video of "combat." Combat my arse, this is reminiscent of a video game - push the button, launch the rocket, house blows up, "WOOHOO!" I don't care what your political views are, people are dying.

And to the cocksmoker who said "Good shit", I've only got one thing to say: grow the f**k up.


Ironic isn't it that you tell someone to grow up and then you use expletives to insult and lambast him...
And this is not a video game this is combat.I speak from experience...5yrs of it...
To the org. poster than-you for putting this out there...

Ironic isn't it that you tell someone to grow up and then you use expletives to insult and lambast him...
And this is not a video game this is combat.I speak from experience...5yrs of it...
To the org. poster than-you for putting this out there...

Fair call on the expletives. Regardless, my point stands - and if you have experienced combat, as you claim to, you will know that this video shows none of the disembowelling, bloody reality that is combat - instead, it shows dehumanised soldiers whooping with joy as another building goes bang.

Maybe I didn't state myself plainly enough in my original post. All I was trying to say was that regardless of whether it's shown or not, civilians (and soldiers) are DYING in Iraq, and that as such this video isn't portraying the reality of Iraq. Instead, it's showing a rather one-sided view that (whether you like it or not) is eerily reminiscent of a video game.

No, you where trolling.

You really think that thank's to your video, you are the guy that "gives this board a chance to see what combat is like"? Wow, you really are overestimating yourself and underestimating most people.

( shrug ) Live with it.

Fair call on the expletives. Regardless, my point stands - and if you have experienced combat, as you claim to, you will know that this video shows none of the disembowelling, bloody reality that is combat - instead, it shows dehumanised soldiers whooping with joy as another building goes bang.

Maybe I didn't state myself plainly enough in my original post. All I was trying to say was that regardless of whether it's shown or not, civilians (and soldiers) are DYING in Iraq, and that as such this video isn't portraying the reality of Iraq. Instead, it's showing a rather one-sided view that (whether you like it or not) is eerily reminiscent of a video game.

No one on here is dumb enough to not know those gunshots and explosions are killing people. I don't think we need to see the dead bodies to know what the results of the shoot out is. But the video gives us a good idea of what the results may be, as grim as that thought is. Maybe Al Jazeera will broadcast a video of the other side, they just seem content with showing videos of beheadings.

Fair enough. More 'real deal'.

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/hell_movie.mov

Another non political piece of footage.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

Hey Etrusca, these guys are slowly driving me conservative. This is two threads in a week that I have been on your side.

LOL! Well, I appreciate that, but I honestly hadn't intended the video to generate another flame-fest. I just thought it was a good video which showed combat up close and personal, without all sorts of talking-head "commentary" added in.

I don't consider myself a conservative. In international affairs I lean a bit toward views currently held by some on the right. In economic affairs, I am squarely centrist. In some ways, when it comes to social issues, I tend to be, if anything, more liberal that any conservative of whom I am aware.

Fair enough. More 'real deal'.

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/hell_movie.mov

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/default.asp?target=gunship_video.htm

There is the story behind that one. Not like the Apache pulled out of nowhere and started killing people.

Another non political piece of footage.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

BS, whenever you mix the media and the military thats all you get is politics. You dont leave it up to a person to decide what the video is but someone else to tell you how to feel. Does the concept of non-political completely fly over your head?

Maybe I didn't state myself plainly enough in my original post. All I was trying to say was that regardless of whether it's shown or not, civilians (and soldiers) are DYING in Iraq, and that as such this video isn't portraying the reality of Iraq. Instead, it's showing a rather one-sided view that (whether you like it or not) is eerily reminiscent of a video game.

Then all war footage is eerily reminiscent of a video game from WWII to Vietnam. And every conflict inbetween. Because you only normally get one side of the story. Not both. Calling it a videogame only further marginalizes the fact of whats going on.

BS, whenever you mix the media and the military thats all you get is politics. You dont leave it up to a person to decide what the video is but someone else to tell you how to feel. Does the concept of non-political completely fly over your head?

Oh well forgive me for pointing out the bloody obvious myself. Irony swishing straight over your head again is it?

Oh well forgive me for pointing out the bloody obvious myself. Irony swishing straight over your head again is it?

You should stick to your day job. Irony doesnt work well for you. Because I sure as heck couldnt tell and you sure as heck arent a literary genius now are you?

LOL! Well, I appreciate that, but I honestly hadn't intended the video to generate another flame-fest. I just thought it was a good video which showed combat up close and personal, without all sorts of talking-head "commentary" added in.

Yeah I inadvertantly started a flame war when I referred to it as "good shit." I obviously wasn't referring to the content, instead I was referring to the quality, but oh well.

Another non political piece of footage.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

Holy Jesus, that's terrible. Those marines don't seem to be human. At least not in my definition. Either we have a great deal of sick twisted people in the marine corps or this war is a psychopath factory. I can't believe someone would get a good feeling out of killing someone that they have never had contact with.

It appears that the US is going to have to destroy a lot of cities to "win" this battle for Iraq. I wouldn't call it a war on terrorism, because that would be a misnomer.

http://i.timeinc.net/time/covers/1101031006/images/main_splash.jpg

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101031006/

On May 1, off the coast of California, president George W. Bush landed in flying gear on the deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln—which sported a banner reading mission accomplished—and said, " Major combat operations in Iraq have ended." The war, said Bush, had been carried out " with a combination of precision and speed and boldness the enemy did not expect, and the world had not seen before." But the mission wasn't accomplished then, and it still is not. The reconstruction of Iraq has proved far more difficult than any official assumed it would be.

BTW, the above article was written on October 6, 2003 and now it is November 20, 2004.

Mission Accomplished?

yes, mission accomplished, the united states military did what they were supposed to and they did it with style, but the problem is that the military is not a police force, they are trained for war, not police actions

yes, mission accomplished, the united states military did what they were supposed to and they did it with style, but the problem is that the military is not a police force, they are trained for war, not police actions

Fallujah is not a police action. We are taking that city in the exact same way we took the rest of the country. Our military is very well trained for police actions. That's all we do anymore. The trouble in Iraq is that we don't have near enough troops to sustain a policing action.

This "Mission" will never be accomplished. For all the talk of winning over the "hearts and minds" of the people we can never do that. There is no way that a foreign instituted democracy will stand without continual occupation. If we do pull out of Iraq, I give a democratic government six months.

So another political flame war ensues with no victor. Like usual.

So another political flame war ensues with no victor. Like usual.

Well both sides just dont know how to leave things alone.

Well both sides just dont know how to leave things alone.

I'll leave things alone when they all admit I'm right, until then I can just keep on posting. :p

Fallujah is not a police action. We are taking that city in the exact same way we took the rest of the country. Our military is very well trained for police actions. That's all we do anymore. The trouble in Iraq is that we don't have near enough troops to sustain a policing action.

This "Mission" will never be accomplished. For all the talk of winning over the "hearts and minds" of the people we can never do that. There is no way that a foreign instituted democracy will stand without continual occupation. If we do pull out of Iraq, I give a democratic government six months.

fallujah is the result of a police action, it is about time we did it the military way go in and anyone that is in the wrong place at the wrong time is delt with accordingly, but the military is not a police force, it is not designed to be one, and they may have some training in it, but the fact remains, when you take a killing machine and tell it kill some and take some prisoner, that creates a problem, they are not a swat team, when they go into a building it is to kill the enemy not to take a prisoner, if we are trin to take prisoners tell them to take prisoners, but you cannot tell them to do both at once, will not work, and i don't know what would happen if we pulled out, the borders probably would not be able to be guarded constentally and would be infested with foreign terrorists, which could very well send the government in to a downward spiral