NationStates Jolt Archive

This will be a proper and formal debate; anyone not complying with the rules will have a tap on the shoulders from a Mod.

Rules:

1. You will agree either AFFIRMATIVE or NEGATIVE to each issue, underneath this you may make a statement as too why you have this view.

2. After issuing your views you may post a brief statement, MY VIEWS either on a different subject within the context of this debate, or as a addition to, or tying up of, your responses to the Issues

3. After this you may post REBUTALS where you agree or disagree with other peoples posts, this is the only area of your argument you may do this, remember Mods are watching; be nice

4. This is an international forum, full of people of different nationalites, do not assume that everyone comes from your home country, any references to "the state" refer to the Government of your country, not anyone elses

for simplicities sack, you can simply "quote" underneath and get rid of the [stuff in brackets]

ISSUES
1. The state should not recognize any form of Homosexual relationship.

2. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to IVF treatments, or any other treatment that allows them to create biological children, such as surrogacy.

3. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to adoption.

4. Children should be removed from the care of a homosexual single parent.

5. In a divorce children should, by default, be given to the heterosexual parent.

6. People found to be homosexuals should be forced to attend counseling and therapy to correct their behavior.


MY VIEWS



REBUTALS

Your views are:

1. The state should not recognize any form of Homosexual relationship.

2. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to IVF treatments, or any other treatment that allows them to create biological children, such as surrogacy.

3. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to adoption.

4. Children should be removed from the care of a homosexual single parent.

5. In a divorce children should, by default, be given to the heterosexual parent.

6. People found to be homosexuals should be forced to attend counseling and therapy to correct their behavior.

It would help me (and other people who happen across this thread) if you could explain why you feel such measures should exist, because it would help your case and give us something to respond to beyond your stated conclusions.



1: Well, I think the state should recognise homosexual relationships as being equal to hetrosexual relationships because there is no good reason to deny them that, (there are claims that homosexuals are more prone to depression or scatalogical fetishes out there, just as there are claims that alternative rock causes school shootouts) just as there's no good reason to deny women the right to show their faces in public, homosexuality is just as natural as hetrosexuality, and not all hetrosexuals view sex as something that should be utilitarian only (I'm refuting reoccurring arguments because I'm not seeing anything beyond your conclusions).

2: What? you think they'd be bad parents just because they are homosexuals? from what I can see of the arguments against allowing homosexual couples to adopt, rent a womb, or artificially inseminate is that the kid would get picked on in school, or be disadvanteged from having only one gender for a role model, both situations are only prevelant because of ingrained (and unjustified) prejudice that should really be educated out, because I see no reason why the roles of individual genders should be so firmly separated, just because there are two genders does not justify a rigid set of rules for each (the specific rules I refer to are men must be strong and aggressive, women must be weak and submissive, neither shall take on characteristics of the other, I mean, what exactly do we need those rules for?).

3: ah, ... I kinda skipped ahead in 2 because I was focussing on homosexuals as parents, my bad.

4: (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10), ... okay, ... (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10), ... ... ... Okay, I'm calm now, ... I feel that if a child is removed from the custody of their current guardian without due cause, it can be as harmful to the child as leaving said child in the custody of an abusive parent, and I can not imagine how a parent being homosexual can be on or anywhere near a par with a parent being abusive to their child, the main arguments I have seen are that the parent will raise the child to be tolerant of homosexual people (and that would be bad because, ... ?) or will raise the child to be homosexual (which appears to be a reoccurring myth amongst homophobic people, that homosexuality is taught and does not occur naturally)

5: Again, what would be so bad about having a homosexual parent raise a child? there has never been any real evidence that a child raised by a homosexual would be in any way disadvantaged when compared by a child raised by a hetrosexual parent.

6: Forcing Homosexuals to become Hetrosexuals is going to create mental illness where none existed or exacerbate existing illnesses, of couse that's where mental illness is defined as a mental condition that in some way threatens the safety of an individual or others around such an individual, and I have not seen any evidence that suggests that all (or even most) cases of homosexuality are accompanied by symptoms that could kill or threaten their health or the health of those around them.


All of your views appear to start with the assumption of homosexuality=bad, but you have not backed that assumption up, I can only go along with my assumption of homosexuality=not good or bad untill I see evidence supporting either assumption, therefore legistation that discriminates against homosexuals would be either unnecessary or harmful.

ugh god not another one of these threads..

This will be a proper and formal debate; anyone not complying with the rules will have a tap on the shoulders from a Mod.

I would love to see you enforce it. Good luck.

ISSUES
1. The state should not recognize any form of Homosexual relationship.

Negative. All of the reasons against it have been eliminated. Marriage no longer needs religion to be involved at all and even a virgin can get pregnant with the current reproduction technologies. Plus, homosexuality has been shown to have genetic causes, eliminating the arguement of whether or not God intended it.

2. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to IVF treatments, or any other treatment that allows them to create biological children, such as surrogacy.

Negative. There is no arguement capable of supporting this and no evidence that it can even be enforced. Also, see my reply to #4.

3. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to adoption.

Negative. See #4.

4. Children should be removed from the care of a homosexual single parent.

There is no evidence of differences in what children turn out as when raised by either a homosexual parent or a heterosexuall parent. Thus, this should not even be an issue.

5. In a divorce children should, by default, be given to the heterosexual parent.

Negative. See #4.

6. People found to be homosexuals should be forced to attend counseling and therapy to correct their behavior.

Negative. Homosexuality has been shown to have a genetic cause. Forcing them to change their behavior won't make them any less homosexual and will only make them lead a life of dissatisfaction. Considering it being observed in a vast majority of the mammal species, there is no evidence of homosexuality even being abherant behavior. The one measly case in the Bible can be easily disproven as an arguement by the genetics issue (why would God throw it in genetics? Maybe it was the guy writing it down...).

This will be a proper and formal debate; anyone not complying with the rules will have a tap on the shoulders from a Mod.

Rules:

1. You will agree either AFFIRMATIVE or NEGATIVE to each issue, underneath this you may make a statement as too why you have this view.

2. After issuing your views you may post a brief statement, MY VIEWS either on a different subject within the context of this debate, or as a addition to, or tying up of, your responses to the Issues

3. After this you may post REBUTALS where you agree or disagree with other peoples posts, this is the only area of your argument you may do this, remember Mods are watching; be nice

4. This is an international forum, full of people of different nationalites, do not assume that everyone comes from your home country, any references to "the state" refer to the Government of your country, not anyone elses

for simplicities sack, you can simply "quote" underneath and get rid of the [stuff in brackets]

ISSUES
1. The state should not recognize any form of Homosexual relationship.

2. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to IVF treatments, or any other treatment that allows them to create biological children, such as surrogacy.

3. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to adoption.

4. Children should be removed from the care of a homosexual single parent.

5. In a divorce children should, by default, be given to the heterosexual parent.

6. People found to be homosexuals should be forced to attend counseling and therapy to correct their behavior.


MY VIEWS



REBUTALS

I'll wait for third grade to start.

I disagree with all the above points on the following grounds:

1. It's nobody's business what an adult does in their bedroom with other consenting adults. I mean, how would any state enforce this without putting surveillance cameras everywhere, including YOUR bedroom? (or perhaps subjecting everyone past puberty to a test showing erotic pictures of both sexes and determining which ones cause arousal) This is insanity.

2. If one believes that discrimination is wrong, any legislation that singles out one specific type of person for unequal treatment under the law goes against that premise.

3. Intolerance is not an acceptable position for any enlightened government, unless it is intolerance of human rights abuses. This means that any government worth its salt should seek out and remove from public policy making any group that advocates the persecution of people not like themselves.

1. The state should not recognize any form of Homosexual relationship.

--Affirmative. Just as they should not recognize any heterosexual relationship. Therefore, this is more of a "counterplan" third option.

2. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to IVF treatments, or any other treatment that allows them to create biological children, such as surrogacy.

--Negative. Technology is for everyone's use.

3. Homosexuals should not be allowed access to adoption.

--negative. We have millions of children who need to be adopted.

4. Children should be removed from the care of a homosexual single parent.

--Negative. I don't think I need to explain this.

5. In a divorce children should, by default, be given to the heterosexual parent.

--Negative. We have well-funded court systems to determine who's the better parent based on things that run deeper than sex, age, race, sexual orientation, etc. Maybe they need to do their jobs.

6. People found to be homosexuals should be forced to attend counseling and therapy to correct their behavior.

--Negative. More gay men means more women for us straight guys...not that I would be partaking; after all, I am totally committed to the Queen of Apples and Bununus.