Klonor
20-11-2004, 11:06
Let me get this out of the way right now: This thread has nothing to do with Christianity. The Holy Trinity in mention is not that of Christian worship. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost will not be in this thread beyond the title and this one paragraph. The only reason I have that specific title is because it fits the subject of the post. This post will deal with three fictional novel series elevated above all of their companions, that is all. If you came in search of religous discussion you will not find it here. Thank you.
The Robot Novels. The Empire Trilogy. The Foundation Saga. Commonly referred to as the Holy Trinity of Sci-Fi (Check the title) all three were authored by the Late Great Isaac Asimov (Did you honestly expect me to talk about anybody other than Asimov? Seriously, practically every other thread I make has to do with him) and are the basis for almost all modern Science Fiction. They are where the very concept of Hyperspace, and the word itself, originated. They are the first compositions to introduce the word 'robot' to the world at large (Despite popular belief Asimov did not invent the word 'Robot'. It is from a Czechoslavakian play called Rossums Universal Robots. The word itself is backwards for 'tobor' which is Czechoslavakian for 'forced labor'). Hell, I would be willing to bet my entire life savings that you can't find one modern Sci-Fi thing (Whether it be movie, novel, video game, magazine, etc.) that hasn't had some sort of inspiration from the Trinity. But which of the three is the best? That is what we're here to find out.
The Robot Novels (2)
I, Robot: Not a novel in itself, it is actually a collection of short stories written by Asimov over many years. It covers the introduction of robots to humanity, from the very first robots which appeared at the end of the 1900's and were nothing more than tools that thought to the great Machines which secretly and quietly controlled Mankind for the betterment of All. It contains both simple emotional stories, such as the adventures of Robbie who was built as a nursemaid for a small child, to tales of wild religous fanaticism (Referring to the actions of QT-1, often called Cutie, who served the Master) and even complex voyages into the very interior of (The horror!) a womans mind!
The Caves of Steel: Humanity has discovered Faster than Light travel and colonised 40 other planets out amongst the Stars. The colonies, as colonies always do, eventually surpassed and overthrew the homeland. Earth is now ruled by the technologically advanced and robot loving Spacers. It is the story of a murdered Spacer and the attempts of Elijah Baley, Detective in the New York City Police Department, to both solve the murder and do so in a way to keep the blame from landing on Earth. Throw in a nearly perfect human imitation robot and you get an extremely twisted little tale.
The Nakes Sun: A Spacer has been murdered.......again. But this time it is on the world of Solaris, a world of extreme hermits who find the very thought of live human contact repulsive to an extreme extent. Robots, which outnumber the humans thousands to one and keep them living a life of extreme luxury, are incapable of injuring a human being. Therefor a problem is found. The victim wouldn't have let anybody near enough to him to kill him and nobody would have been able to move themselves near enough to the vitcim to kill him, and no robots could have done the deed even though in almost constant contact. Since this is the first murder in a very long time the authorities need outside help and call for Elijah Baley to travel from Earth to solve the murder.
The Robots of Dawn: Wow.....another murder. A bit repetitive, eh? No, not at all. This time the crime is not homicide, for the victim is not human. The victim is a robot. A case of roboticide, if you will. Not just roboticide, but roboticide on Aurora which is the capital and most powerful of all the Spacer worlds. Nor is it a simple case of "Look, somebody shot the robot! Trace the bullet and be done with it" (Okay, the use of laser weaponry does make bullets obsolete, but you get my point) this is much more devious. The robot has been 'killed' (if a robot can indeed be killed) through positronic brain shutdown. An unsolveable paradox was presented. But it's even more complex. The 'murdered' robot was an extremely special robot. One of only two in existence. Its robotic mind has safeguards to make sure that it wont shut down at the slightest mental conflict. So, not only has a valuable piece of equipment been destroyed, but it is so hard to do in the way it was done that it means it had to be one of the smartest people in the Universe. Once again Elijah Baley is called forth to serve humanity, and he doesn't disappoint.
The Empire Trilogy
The Stars, Like Dust: Okay, I really don't get why this is one of the 'Empire Trilogy' since it has nothing to do with the Empire, but they list it as one so I do as well. Anyway, humanity has begun to really expand into the Galaxy. Several thousand colonised planets with dozens of different Inter-Stellar nations clawing for power. However, they're all rather limited in the political freedoms area. They're not all oppressive (Quite the opposite, the star of the novel is the son of a ruler and quite a nice guy) but they all shut out the people from the ruling. Monarchies, Autarchies, Ranchies, Oligarchies, etc. No places with a real presence of the People in the government. What I say next is the very climactic part at the end and I don't want to ruin it for anybody, so it's in the spoiler tag. But there is hope. The Constitution of the United States of America is still in existence. The document which outlines an effective form of democracy which allows the people to chose who rules and who doesn't. Unfortunately, it is still on Earth and is shut up in the deepest darkest religous dungeon. At least, it was. It has been stolen and is somewhere out in the Galaxy, with someone ready to use to to free the masses. Neat, eh?
The Currents of Space: Rik, a full grown man found in a mudheap unable to speak or eat or even clean himself after he goes to the bathroom, remembers he has a job. Or at least he had a job. He analysed Nothing (Note the capital 'N'). Slowly, you follow Rik as his shattered (and I do mean shattered) memory begins to repair itself and he tries to warn the Galaxy, at this point half controlled by the might Trantorian Empire, of an impending doom from which none are safe. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrrow, but eventually it'll get you. Or your Great-great-great-great-great.......great-great-great-great.......great-great-great grandchildren. But he is impeded by shadowy forces which are trying to use his knowledge for their own gain and for the control of a miraculous substance found only one single planet in the entire Universe. At this point in time (referring to real life) it has been found that the scientific terror which Rik feared is actually incorrect and horribly laughable, but when the novel was written it was a valid theory.
Pebble in the Sky: Okay, I really don't want to describe this book again. I love it to death, I really do, and it is my favorite of all the Empire series, but I have gone over it so damn often that I am close to not liking it. I'm sorry, but I really need to be brief. Galaxy controlled by one single government. Government good. Earth very very bad. Radioactive. Controlled by evil cult. Planning war on entire galaxy with mutant diseases. Very evil. Enjoy! (I'm really sorry, but I just can't bring myself to describe it all over again. I have like twenty threads dedicated to this one book and it's just to much)
The Foundation Saga (4)
Foundation: The Galactic Empire is collapsing. It has stood for nearly 12,000 years and controls the entire Galaxy, which in total is several million planets and several quadrillion people. It is ruled from mighty Trantor, a planet that has had its entire surface covered by one huge city and has a population in excess of forty billion. But it is still falling. It got to good, if there is such a thing. Science began to stagnate since the need for advancement slowly shrank and shrank. Stagnation turned to recession, since people needed to do less to maintain what they already had. Corruption took hold in the government and power abuse became standard. Soon parts of the Empire began to break away and form their own little Kingdoms, but they were no better off than the old Empire. Due to its massive size it would take a very long time, but it looked like eventually all of civilisation would fall and it would take thirty thousand years for a new Galactic Empire to rise from the barbarism that would soon sweep the Galaxy. FYI, that is a very bad thing. But not all hope is lost, for there is one creative spark left in the Galactic Empire. Hari Seldon, the greatest of the Psycho-Historians, saw the Fall of the Galactic Empire while it was just starting. He saw the death of Good and the rise of Bad before Good came again. On top of that, he knew that was a very bad thing. So he worked, and he worked hard. Using Psycho-History, which is the science of predicting mass human reactions to outside stimuli, he saw what would happen to the Galaxy and what he would need to do to change it. So he founded two Foundations, one on the planet Terminus and the other at the 'Opposite end of the Galaxy, at Stars End' ;) (When we get to Second Foundation you'll get it). Foundations composed of the best and the brightest of what was left of the Empires scientific world. Foundations that, due to the extreme pressure placed upon them due to their location and creation, would formed the core of a Second Empire in only one thousand years. Foundation is the story of the first several hundred years of the First Foundation.
Foundation and Empire: It's been several hundred years and the First Foundation is now the second biggest power in the entire Galaxy, the largest power being the still existing Galactic Empire. It has lost much of what it once had, almost the entire border of the Galaxy has rebelled and kicked it out, but it is still mammothly huge. Under its last Strong Emperor, Cleon II, it slowly began to once more expand into the Periphery of the Galaxy with its military commanded by quite possibly the brightest military mind in the history of the Galaxy: General Bel Riose (my favorite character). Anyway, long story short the Galactic Empire kicks the crap out of the Foundation but loses anyway. There are complex forces at work that even the brightest of minds can't comprehend and it was the very social fabric of the Empire that caused its defeat, since the actions of Riose (Those actions being complete and unquestionable loyalty to the Emperor) caused the Emperor to suspect trickery and rebellion and killed Riose himself. But the novel doesn't end there. Centuies later comes the Mule. The Foundation is now the power in the Galaxy and can be challeneged by none, except that which was completely unforseen to Seldon. The Mule is a mutant, a freak who couldn't have been predicted by Hari Seldons statistical science, and he quickly ruins all the well layed plans that have been in existence for centuries. He conquered the Foundation easily and seemed on his way to getting the rest of the Galaxy when he was stopped by a young bride. No, wait, let me re-phrase. He conquered the First Foundation easily. But what of the second?
Second Foundation: The Mule is now tirelessly searching the entire Galaxy for the Second Foundation. He is searching because it is the one opponent to his complete dominance of humanity. The First Foundation was composed of physical scientists, scientists who would invent new technology and follow Seldons plan to the letter. But what if something came about which the Plan couldn't account for? Something like the Mule. That's where the Second Foundation comes in, for it is the guardian of the Seldon plan. The Second Foundation is that which works to stop the Mule from conquering all of humanity and works to keep the Plan intact. This novel deals withs its complex manipulations of society in their quest to outwit a being that can bend a mans very emotions to his whim. But nobody, not even the First Foundation, knows where the Second Foundation is. Seldons only mention of it (That 'Opposite end of the Galaxy' line back in Foundation) gives little info. People spend years with physical calculations, trying to figure out which planet is exactly 180 degrees opposite the First Foundation. None match it exactly so they try to work different angles, different meanings. Nothing works. Eventually they think they understand it by the revelation that 'A circle has no end' and therefore the Secound Foundation is on Terminus along with the First, but that is not true. For everybody forgot that Seldon was a social scientist, he delt with humanity and their emotions and thoughts not matter and space. And what is more the opposite of Terminus, a planet at the edge of the Galaxy and unsettled before the First Foundation arrived, than the very center of humanity? For, as the old saying goes: All roads lead to Trantor, and that is where all Stars End (Trust me, in the book its a huge shock)
End of novel summaries
So, which series do you think is the best?
The Robot Novels. The Empire Trilogy. The Foundation Saga. Commonly referred to as the Holy Trinity of Sci-Fi (Check the title) all three were authored by the Late Great Isaac Asimov (Did you honestly expect me to talk about anybody other than Asimov? Seriously, practically every other thread I make has to do with him) and are the basis for almost all modern Science Fiction. They are where the very concept of Hyperspace, and the word itself, originated. They are the first compositions to introduce the word 'robot' to the world at large (Despite popular belief Asimov did not invent the word 'Robot'. It is from a Czechoslavakian play called Rossums Universal Robots. The word itself is backwards for 'tobor' which is Czechoslavakian for 'forced labor'). Hell, I would be willing to bet my entire life savings that you can't find one modern Sci-Fi thing (Whether it be movie, novel, video game, magazine, etc.) that hasn't had some sort of inspiration from the Trinity. But which of the three is the best? That is what we're here to find out.
The Robot Novels (2)
I, Robot: Not a novel in itself, it is actually a collection of short stories written by Asimov over many years. It covers the introduction of robots to humanity, from the very first robots which appeared at the end of the 1900's and were nothing more than tools that thought to the great Machines which secretly and quietly controlled Mankind for the betterment of All. It contains both simple emotional stories, such as the adventures of Robbie who was built as a nursemaid for a small child, to tales of wild religous fanaticism (Referring to the actions of QT-1, often called Cutie, who served the Master) and even complex voyages into the very interior of (The horror!) a womans mind!
The Caves of Steel: Humanity has discovered Faster than Light travel and colonised 40 other planets out amongst the Stars. The colonies, as colonies always do, eventually surpassed and overthrew the homeland. Earth is now ruled by the technologically advanced and robot loving Spacers. It is the story of a murdered Spacer and the attempts of Elijah Baley, Detective in the New York City Police Department, to both solve the murder and do so in a way to keep the blame from landing on Earth. Throw in a nearly perfect human imitation robot and you get an extremely twisted little tale.
The Nakes Sun: A Spacer has been murdered.......again. But this time it is on the world of Solaris, a world of extreme hermits who find the very thought of live human contact repulsive to an extreme extent. Robots, which outnumber the humans thousands to one and keep them living a life of extreme luxury, are incapable of injuring a human being. Therefor a problem is found. The victim wouldn't have let anybody near enough to him to kill him and nobody would have been able to move themselves near enough to the vitcim to kill him, and no robots could have done the deed even though in almost constant contact. Since this is the first murder in a very long time the authorities need outside help and call for Elijah Baley to travel from Earth to solve the murder.
The Robots of Dawn: Wow.....another murder. A bit repetitive, eh? No, not at all. This time the crime is not homicide, for the victim is not human. The victim is a robot. A case of roboticide, if you will. Not just roboticide, but roboticide on Aurora which is the capital and most powerful of all the Spacer worlds. Nor is it a simple case of "Look, somebody shot the robot! Trace the bullet and be done with it" (Okay, the use of laser weaponry does make bullets obsolete, but you get my point) this is much more devious. The robot has been 'killed' (if a robot can indeed be killed) through positronic brain shutdown. An unsolveable paradox was presented. But it's even more complex. The 'murdered' robot was an extremely special robot. One of only two in existence. Its robotic mind has safeguards to make sure that it wont shut down at the slightest mental conflict. So, not only has a valuable piece of equipment been destroyed, but it is so hard to do in the way it was done that it means it had to be one of the smartest people in the Universe. Once again Elijah Baley is called forth to serve humanity, and he doesn't disappoint.
The Empire Trilogy
The Stars, Like Dust: Okay, I really don't get why this is one of the 'Empire Trilogy' since it has nothing to do with the Empire, but they list it as one so I do as well. Anyway, humanity has begun to really expand into the Galaxy. Several thousand colonised planets with dozens of different Inter-Stellar nations clawing for power. However, they're all rather limited in the political freedoms area. They're not all oppressive (Quite the opposite, the star of the novel is the son of a ruler and quite a nice guy) but they all shut out the people from the ruling. Monarchies, Autarchies, Ranchies, Oligarchies, etc. No places with a real presence of the People in the government. What I say next is the very climactic part at the end and I don't want to ruin it for anybody, so it's in the spoiler tag. But there is hope. The Constitution of the United States of America is still in existence. The document which outlines an effective form of democracy which allows the people to chose who rules and who doesn't. Unfortunately, it is still on Earth and is shut up in the deepest darkest religous dungeon. At least, it was. It has been stolen and is somewhere out in the Galaxy, with someone ready to use to to free the masses. Neat, eh?
The Currents of Space: Rik, a full grown man found in a mudheap unable to speak or eat or even clean himself after he goes to the bathroom, remembers he has a job. Or at least he had a job. He analysed Nothing (Note the capital 'N'). Slowly, you follow Rik as his shattered (and I do mean shattered) memory begins to repair itself and he tries to warn the Galaxy, at this point half controlled by the might Trantorian Empire, of an impending doom from which none are safe. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrrow, but eventually it'll get you. Or your Great-great-great-great-great.......great-great-great-great.......great-great-great grandchildren. But he is impeded by shadowy forces which are trying to use his knowledge for their own gain and for the control of a miraculous substance found only one single planet in the entire Universe. At this point in time (referring to real life) it has been found that the scientific terror which Rik feared is actually incorrect and horribly laughable, but when the novel was written it was a valid theory.
Pebble in the Sky: Okay, I really don't want to describe this book again. I love it to death, I really do, and it is my favorite of all the Empire series, but I have gone over it so damn often that I am close to not liking it. I'm sorry, but I really need to be brief. Galaxy controlled by one single government. Government good. Earth very very bad. Radioactive. Controlled by evil cult. Planning war on entire galaxy with mutant diseases. Very evil. Enjoy! (I'm really sorry, but I just can't bring myself to describe it all over again. I have like twenty threads dedicated to this one book and it's just to much)
The Foundation Saga (4)
Foundation: The Galactic Empire is collapsing. It has stood for nearly 12,000 years and controls the entire Galaxy, which in total is several million planets and several quadrillion people. It is ruled from mighty Trantor, a planet that has had its entire surface covered by one huge city and has a population in excess of forty billion. But it is still falling. It got to good, if there is such a thing. Science began to stagnate since the need for advancement slowly shrank and shrank. Stagnation turned to recession, since people needed to do less to maintain what they already had. Corruption took hold in the government and power abuse became standard. Soon parts of the Empire began to break away and form their own little Kingdoms, but they were no better off than the old Empire. Due to its massive size it would take a very long time, but it looked like eventually all of civilisation would fall and it would take thirty thousand years for a new Galactic Empire to rise from the barbarism that would soon sweep the Galaxy. FYI, that is a very bad thing. But not all hope is lost, for there is one creative spark left in the Galactic Empire. Hari Seldon, the greatest of the Psycho-Historians, saw the Fall of the Galactic Empire while it was just starting. He saw the death of Good and the rise of Bad before Good came again. On top of that, he knew that was a very bad thing. So he worked, and he worked hard. Using Psycho-History, which is the science of predicting mass human reactions to outside stimuli, he saw what would happen to the Galaxy and what he would need to do to change it. So he founded two Foundations, one on the planet Terminus and the other at the 'Opposite end of the Galaxy, at Stars End' ;) (When we get to Second Foundation you'll get it). Foundations composed of the best and the brightest of what was left of the Empires scientific world. Foundations that, due to the extreme pressure placed upon them due to their location and creation, would formed the core of a Second Empire in only one thousand years. Foundation is the story of the first several hundred years of the First Foundation.
Foundation and Empire: It's been several hundred years and the First Foundation is now the second biggest power in the entire Galaxy, the largest power being the still existing Galactic Empire. It has lost much of what it once had, almost the entire border of the Galaxy has rebelled and kicked it out, but it is still mammothly huge. Under its last Strong Emperor, Cleon II, it slowly began to once more expand into the Periphery of the Galaxy with its military commanded by quite possibly the brightest military mind in the history of the Galaxy: General Bel Riose (my favorite character). Anyway, long story short the Galactic Empire kicks the crap out of the Foundation but loses anyway. There are complex forces at work that even the brightest of minds can't comprehend and it was the very social fabric of the Empire that caused its defeat, since the actions of Riose (Those actions being complete and unquestionable loyalty to the Emperor) caused the Emperor to suspect trickery and rebellion and killed Riose himself. But the novel doesn't end there. Centuies later comes the Mule. The Foundation is now the power in the Galaxy and can be challeneged by none, except that which was completely unforseen to Seldon. The Mule is a mutant, a freak who couldn't have been predicted by Hari Seldons statistical science, and he quickly ruins all the well layed plans that have been in existence for centuries. He conquered the Foundation easily and seemed on his way to getting the rest of the Galaxy when he was stopped by a young bride. No, wait, let me re-phrase. He conquered the First Foundation easily. But what of the second?
Second Foundation: The Mule is now tirelessly searching the entire Galaxy for the Second Foundation. He is searching because it is the one opponent to his complete dominance of humanity. The First Foundation was composed of physical scientists, scientists who would invent new technology and follow Seldons plan to the letter. But what if something came about which the Plan couldn't account for? Something like the Mule. That's where the Second Foundation comes in, for it is the guardian of the Seldon plan. The Second Foundation is that which works to stop the Mule from conquering all of humanity and works to keep the Plan intact. This novel deals withs its complex manipulations of society in their quest to outwit a being that can bend a mans very emotions to his whim. But nobody, not even the First Foundation, knows where the Second Foundation is. Seldons only mention of it (That 'Opposite end of the Galaxy' line back in Foundation) gives little info. People spend years with physical calculations, trying to figure out which planet is exactly 180 degrees opposite the First Foundation. None match it exactly so they try to work different angles, different meanings. Nothing works. Eventually they think they understand it by the revelation that 'A circle has no end' and therefore the Secound Foundation is on Terminus along with the First, but that is not true. For everybody forgot that Seldon was a social scientist, he delt with humanity and their emotions and thoughts not matter and space. And what is more the opposite of Terminus, a planet at the edge of the Galaxy and unsettled before the First Foundation arrived, than the very center of humanity? For, as the old saying goes: All roads lead to Trantor, and that is where all Stars End (Trust me, in the book its a huge shock)
End of novel summaries
So, which series do you think is the best?