NationStates Jolt Archive


The Patriot Act

Nordfjord
17-11-2004, 22:43
43 days after 9/11, America was hit by the Patriot Act. Surprisingly few even cared -as they didn't later when deceit after deceit, scandal after scandal, and lie after lie was unravelled about the Republican party. They did not care.

The Patriot Act, to the people, "allows the cops to fight terrorists in the States". Great, let's go home and have Freedom Fries. Nobody cared about what the Heck the Act was.

The Act violates:
1st amendment: Right to free speech, press, and assembly.
4th amendment: Freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures.
5th amendment: Due process.
6th amendment: Speedy trial by jury, right to be informed of the facts of the accusation, right to confront witnesses, right to have counsel assistance.
8th amendment: No excessive bail or cruel/inhuman punishment.
14th amendment: Equal protection of the law.

Following that,

8,000 Arab, Middle-eastern, South Asian, and Islamic citizens have been interrogated based on their ethnicity/belief alone.
Thousands of men, mostly South Asians, Arabs, and Middle Easteners, have been secretly arrested without warrant and held in an undisclosed location. They get no lawyers or trial; their captors don't even bother to tell them why they are being arrested. They are then held "indefinetly", without the government even telling people their names, even when ordered to do so by the courts.
FBI now spies on political and religious organizations with no evidence of wrongdoing.
The government monitors communications between detainees and their lawyers.
Press and public has been barred from hearings of immigrants detained after 9/11.
The FBI can search your files on finance, medical records, school, etc. without a warrant and then punish whoever tells you that they did -a direct breach of vital laws like the Oath of Confidentiality system.


Summary:
The FBI can arrest you without a warrant and without telling anyone. They can then keep you in jail indefinetly (read: As long as they damn want to) without telling you why, without letting you have a lawyer, and without telling anyone in the outside world, not even judges and courts, who they arrested and where they are held. Why? Because they want to, Joe. All they have to do is say that you "did something terroristic".
Or to put it even shorter: The FBI can do anything they dang please for all you care, as long as they, somewhere along the way, say it's against "terror".

So how can people support the Patriot Act?
Simple: They have no freaking idea of what on Earth it does. They fall for the scare strategies of Rumsfeld and Bush: "Make the people believe that they are in lethal danger and they will agree to anything." The method always works and always has, in all countries in all times. Then, when something is suggested, they answer yes if it only contains the phrase "this is bad for the terrorists". You think anyone would have supported the act before 9/11? Never. And don't say they didn't try to get it enacted -they did.

For years and years before the 9/11 hijackings, government leaders came up with the elements which would become the Patriot Act. Then, on 9/11, they saw their chance. After only 43 days, the desired elements had been gathered and made into the "USA Patriot Act". Ever heard of COINTELPRO? I thought not. Programs of the type were enacted in the 50's, 60's, and 70's by the US state to proscecute thousands of individuals for legitimate political activity.

And then there's the story on how it was passed... nope. It wasn't passed. Most of Congress didn't even read it. It was also developed litterally in the middle of the night and in great secrecy, meaning that the people never got to voice their opinion on it.

Further research shows that the State does not care less about the values they feed the people. "Support our troops"? Troop funds and support for troops and their families is getting cut and troops are kept in Iraq without anyone telling them when they're going home. "Fight terrorists!"? Nope. Iraq has been proven to have nothing to do with Al-Qaida, and US forces sent to Afghanistan were thin to say the least. Actually, right after the 9/11 attack, officials called Intel asking them to frame Iraq for the attack. "Make it look like Iraq did it." "Actually, we're more sure it's Afghanistan." "Screw Afghanistan, we wanna know how you can make it look like it was Iraq". "Support freedom"? Two words: Patriot Act. "Save lives"? Nope. Other death causes are left alone. "Protect us from the terrorists"? Nope.

Safe-Keeper of Nordfjord.
Joey P
17-11-2004, 22:50
The worst part of the patriot act is that once the terror threat receeds it will be used to target all kinds of common crimes. Since one can't use ethnic or religious profiling on every crime all of us will be targeted. Shitty piece of legislation. Do you realize they can check what library books you have read? Considering my reading habits I may find myself a suspect in numerous crimes.
Dempublicents
17-11-2004, 22:58
The FBI can search your files on finance, medical records, school, etc. without a warrant and then punish whoever tells you that they did -a direct breach of vital laws like the Oath of Confidentiality system.
[/list]

Library records too, although some librarians have been a bit subversive (pissing the FBI off, basically). After searches, many libraries have begun displaying plaques stating "Your library info may be searched by the FBI." When asked if the FBI has been there, they say "I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to divulge that info." Of course, the plaques aren't there until there's been a search. The FBI can't do anything because it isn't "technically" against the law. =)
Superpower07
17-11-2004, 23:00
Read the quote by Franklin in my profile in relation to Patriot
Iranamok
17-11-2004, 23:01
The worst part of the patriot act is that once the terror threat receeds it will be used to target all kinds of common crimes. Since one can't use ethnic or religious profiling on every crime all of us will be targeted. Shitty piece of legislation. Do you realize they can check what library books you have read? Considering my reading habits I may find myself a suspect in numerous crimes.


Nahh, the worst part of the Patriot Act is that there are still some poor ignorant conspiracy-theory-happy moonbats out there who actually believe all the garbage that has been said about it.

The basic elements of the "Patriot Act" already existed long before 9-11. The only difference is back then they were used piecemeal, to combat organized crime.

Yep, everything the paranoids tell you the Patriot Act is "gonna" do? It's already been done. For years. Without turning this place into a police state.

If you haven't been dragged out of your bed in the middle of the night YET, chances are you're not going to be.

And BTW... as a librarian, I can delete patron checkout records by pushing three buttons. On the other hand, if you've got books you've never brought back, I'll be only too happy to see you hung by your entrails. FRY, book thieves!!! :D
Nordfjord
18-11-2004, 00:38
Read the quote by Franklin in my profile in relation to Patriot
"If a Man is willing to give up Freedom for Security, He deserves neither Freedom nor Security"? Saw that the first time in my old Norwegian World Social Studies book. ;) Franklin was a wise man.

Yep, everything the paranoids tell you the Patriot Act is "gonna" do? It's already been done. For years. Without turning this place into a police state.
I remember this girl who went to my school being deported from the States after 9/11 just for having recently immigrated... :rolleyes:

As a librarian, I can delete book records
Doesn't help if the FBI has already read them... :rolleyes: I used to be a volunteer librarian at my school, it ruled. The power they give you.. ;) :D

Anyways, the US has never been a police state? What about the African Civil Rights movement? Africans beaten up by batons and shot and what worse for no apparent reason?
DemonLordEnigma
18-11-2004, 00:45
If you haven't been dragged out of your bed in the middle of the night YET, chances are you're not going to be.

Actually, I have been. Twice. Apparently, they don't like it when you suggest the president's mother had an affair with a chimpanzee in an email to the White House. Surprisingly, they take that seriously but won't do anything if you send the President a letter calling him stupid, an idiot, and Hitler reincarnate in as many ways as your imagination can come up with.

However, they have no grounds for arrest. But that doesn't stop them from keeping you awake all night with questions.
Cannot think of a name
18-11-2004, 01:00
Nahh, the worst part of the Patriot Act is that there are still some poor ignorant conspiracy-theory-happy moonbats out there who actually believe all the garbage that has been said about it.

The basic elements of the "Patriot Act" already existed long before 9-11. The only difference is back then they were used piecemeal, to combat organized crime.

Yep, everything the paranoids tell you the Patriot Act is "gonna" do? It's already been done. For years. Without turning this place into a police state.

If you haven't been dragged out of your bed in the middle of the night YET, chances are you're not going to be.

And BTW... as a librarian, I can delete patron checkout records by pushing three buttons. On the other hand, if you've got books you've never brought back, I'll be only too happy to see you hung by your entrails. FRY, book thieves!!! :D
I'll try and tell that to my friend who was held for five days without council or charges because after an argument her mom called her in as a terrorist.

Or maybe I won't wait for them to come for me before I resist, because then it'll be too late.
Zanon
18-11-2004, 01:02
Well those bastards complained and complained about security and they got it. People want to be safe. Now everyone is checked for ultimate safety! You can't blame the goverment for giving people what they want.
Steampowered
18-11-2004, 01:31
Actually, Iranamok, a lot of the complaints about violations of due process were there in the beginning, giving any citizen right to be more than simply a little warey of this legilsation. However, since then, much of the unconstitutional parts of the Patriot Act have been declawed by the so-called "Activist" Judges that so many people complain about these days.
Andaluciae
18-11-2004, 01:34
The Patriot Act...

...has been talked about 1.3 billion times on this forum.

It's not that bad. It basically extends the same power the federal government has for drug charges to terrorism. We've been living under similar conditions (in my case at least) our entire lives. Don't worry. There aren't jackbooted thugs on the streets. Chill. Call up your congressman, or any others who'll listen.
Andaluciae
18-11-2004, 01:38
I'll try and tell that to my friend who was held for five days without council or charges because after an argument her mom called her in as a terrorist.

Or maybe I won't wait for them to come for me before I resist, because then it'll be too late.
They had reason to believe that your friend was a terrorist. A reported telephone call. They, probably being the local police, almost never have any idea how to handle a terrorist charge. They get lost and confused. In the end they figure out what's going on and the person get's released.

It's not sinister behavior, it's stupid behavior.

I also know someone who got pulled over because of the patriot act. Sure he may have been going 30 mph over the speed limit, but he swears it's because of the patriot act.
Kryogenerica
18-11-2004, 01:52
They had reason to believe that your friend was a terrorist. A reported telephone call.

THAT'S IT! All you US-ians who want to show this legislation up should get together and overload the system with spurious reports. Then they'll be soo busy they won't have time to do anything and the whole thing will collapse! BONUS!! :D

Something similar was done here when a (generally unpopular) political party started up a toll-free line. It lasted about 5 days.
Cannot think of a name
18-11-2004, 01:52
They had reason to believe that your friend was a terrorist. A reported telephone call. They, probably being the local police, almost never have any idea how to handle a terrorist charge. They get lost and confused. In the end they figure out what's going on and the person get's released.

It's not sinister behavior, it's stupid behavior.

I also know someone who got pulled over because of the patriot act. Sure he may have been going 30 mph over the speed limit, but he swears it's because of the patriot act.
Without the Patriot Act, without the paranoia, they would have had to charge her or release her so she could, say, start her new job instead of losing it.

Here's where you're derailing-it's because it allows that stupid behavior it's bad, because it can be abused like that it's bad. Because someone who was getting her life back on track was set back immeasurably-it's bad. It's not dark suited men in dark rooms rubbing their hands like Captain Planet villians we're worried about, it's exactly what's happening that we are worried about.
Roachsylvania
18-11-2004, 04:44
LOL, Gitmo!
Kerubia
18-11-2004, 04:52
The Patriot Act still requires a search warrant:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mie/ctu/FAQ_Patriot.htm
Andaluciae
19-11-2004, 04:35
*Keeps this thread from falling out of the listing*

Why, because I feel like it!