NationStates Jolt Archive

Please back up what you say with direct quotations from the Scriptures. This isn't a "why" or "why not" debate, I was just wondering if the Bible specifically says anywhere in it whether or not pre-marital sex is a sin. Thanks!

Yes it is. According to stuck up moralists like Bible thumpers.

I cannot think of a specific instance where the Bible denounces pre-marital sex. I know there was the bit about adultery, and then Jesus went and said that if you fantasized about your neighbor's wife it's just as bad as the real thing, but I can't think of any mention of pre-marital sex. Actually, I don't think it was a big issue back when the Bible was written.

Yes it is. According to stuck up moralists like Bible thumpers.

Yup, God botherers would have us all choking the chicken until we marched down the aisle only to find out that your new bride was a transexual trucker called Dave! :gundge: :headbang:

We were discussing the same thing in English, in the context of The Scarlet Letter

Personally, it's none of anybody's business if pre-marital sex is consentual

Yes it is. According to stuck up moralists like Bible thumpers.

But does the Bible mention pre-marital sex at all? Or is that just something the thumpers would have us believe?

Pre marital sex is a sin. Knock it off.

Personally, it's none of anybody's business if pre-marital sex is consentual
As long as it's protected. Spreading VD's (venereal diseases) is something that people should be much more concerned about. HIV could be greatly reduced if people didn't go and copulate even after they know they have it.

Pre marital sex is a sin. Knock it off.
Read the original post, please. What is requested of you is proof of your point. And yes, I only quoted Joey P, but this statement goes to everyone else who has posted.

But does the Bible mention pre-marital sex at all? Or is that just something the thumpers would have us believe?
I dunno. Never bothered to read it or stay awake when mom dragged me to Bible class.

Read the original post, please. What is requested of you is proof of your point. And yes, I only quoted Joey P, but this statement goes to everyone else who has posted.
I was taught in Catholic school that it's a sin. I don't care though. I'm an atheist.

Aye it's a fecken sin ya hore. An a dunna have ta have a bibble quote, da vicar will tell a as much ya churlish tart.

Depends on the context. Sin- yes. Moral- Your own decision. Personally I don't believe that it's wrong.

Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7

I don't know what the specific content/wording of those scriptures are, but I got them from this website: http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-before-marriage.html

Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7

I don't know what the specific content/wording of those scriptures are, but I got them from this website: http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-before-marriage.html
Damnit! I was hoping no one would ever get around to giving "factual" evidence against it... I wish people would do more thinking for themselves and less asking what an outdated book thinks. It's lazy, I tell you, and not much good comes from it.

im a lavey satanist and i dont think its a "sin". do anything as long as it feels good and hurts no one

On a more serious note, of course:

"Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled, but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge" Hebrews 13:4

Likewise:

"Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral" Hebrews 13:4

"Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners shall inherit the Kingdom of God" I Corinthians 6:9-11

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body" I Corinthians 6:18

"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman have her own husband" I Corinthians 7:2

"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people" Ephesians 5:3

No skin off my back, mind. "Judge not" etc. :rolleyes: :fluffle:

" For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from unchastity" 1 Thessalonians 4:3

I wish people would do more thinking for themselves and less asking what an outdated book thinks.

I wish people would do more thinking for themselves and pay less attention to their genitals. Just me though, pay no mind.

....what's it all abouuut....Alfieeee.... :D

I just had sex an hour ago,and I'm not married, so I can say I don't think it's sin.... although... I'm not a part of a religion othat believes in sin.... There are good and bad things in this world.... and sex is soooooo good.

I just had sex an hour ago,and I'm not married, so I can say I don't think it's sin.... although... I'm not a part of a religion othat believes in sin.... There are good and bad things in this world.... and sex is soooooo good.

But then again, you're a Pimp. :D

Damnit! I was hoping no one would ever get around to giving "factual" evidence against it... I wish people would do more thinking for themselves and less asking what an outdated book thinks. It's lazy, I tell you, and not much good comes from it.

I was just doing what was asked, as no one else had, yet :)
And it's only factual for those who believe in it, which wasn't what the thread was about, anyway. Northern Trombonium never said whether they believe it or not, they just wanted something to reference, so I thought I'd help.

But then again, you're a Pimp. :D That I am.

Grr... I went through my Bible and found every one of those passages and wrote them in a reply, and then when I hit the submit button my computer freaked out and I lost it all.

Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7


I actually looked up all the parts of the bible and they specifically said no fornication which is sex before marriage. I thought that maybe it was one of those things that was up to interpretation but it is said plain and simple.

Too bad guess I'm going to hell. Personally I think there is nothing wrong with it. Then it was thought wrong but now it is more accepted. Sex is for reproduction first yes but with proper protection the chances of pregnancy are so slim that they might as well not even be. I think before the translations it meant no prostitution,which is also listed there, and no birth before marriage but had nothing to do with sex. Since at that time sexual protection was unheard of it was generaly considered that sex before marriage was a sin but with our technology it is not.

Everything is open to interpretation. It depends how you look at these things. There is no wrong and there is no definate right. Look left right and behind and you will find a differernt answer then you were expecting. Did you know jahovas witnesses think it is a sin to vote? They say it's in the bible and have a quote that they will tell you if they ask. If you look at it from there point of view they are right but if you question it even a little it seems ludicris.

I actually looked up all the parts of the bible and they specifically said no fornication which is sex before marriage. I thought that maybe it was one of those things that was up to interpretation but it is said plain and simple.
My translation says "Sexual Immorality" in all of those pasages, which is much more vague. That's what happens with translations of translations...

Where is it Man's place to determine what their diety finds abhorrent or otherwise? And an all powerful being would have no wants nor needs, therefore he does not require your praise nor does he care if you defy his followers beliefs.

"Marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled, but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge" Hebrews 13
Whoa. The bible says "whoremongers"? Thats awsome.

Guys Guys Guys
Whats the problem with a little (or a lot) of pre marital sin

Many of the western main stream religions offer a change to repent of sins.
so do as I do, Sin loads then confess or repent or whatever your bag is.

i will consider the matter on sin closed
thanks :fluffle:

http://biblicalresearch.gc.adventist.org/Biblequestions/maturereaders.htm

You can look up all the references, both New and Old Testament, in this essay.

Guys Guys Guys
Whats the problem with a little (or a lot) of pre marital sin

Many of the western main stream religions offer a change to repent of sins.
so do as I do, Sin loads then confess or repent or whatever your bag is.

i will consider the matter on sin closed
thanks :fluffle:
(Cautionary note) Just don't overdo the intensity, mmmkay? That cardiac failure could get in the way of timely repentance!

I wish people would do more thinking for themselves and pay less attention to their genitals. Just me though, pay no mind.
Bu what's more interesting than genitals? ;) But, seriously, there is a preferctly reasonable explanation for why people do that so much. What is the purpose of all life? Procreation. Reproduction. Nothing else. Continuation of the species is more important than anything else. As a little incentive, Nature chose to make it the most pleasurable activity some organisms can partake in. Hell, there are multiple insects and arachnids that have the male die during the copulation. Usually as a post-coital snack for the female. Now, if a male praying mantis is willing to get his head ripped off for sex, what'll a human do? :p

I cannot think of a specific instance where the Bible denounces pre-marital sex. I know there was the bit about adultery, and then Jesus went and said that if you fantasized about your neighbor's wife it's just as bad as the real thing, but I can't think of any mention of pre-marital sex. Actually, I don't think it was a big issue back when the Bible was written.

Check the link I provided. There are many denounciations of premarital sex.
Now, whether good Christians practice what they're taught is a separate issue.... ;)

Check the link I provided. There are many denounciations of premarital sex.
Now, whether good Christians practice what they're taught is a separate issue.... ;)


Translations of translations often get screwed up. You should find the words they have in the passage that mean premarital sex in english and look at its latin roots. The latin roots don't mean anything of the sort. Translations get screwed up and thats why the modern bible cannot be taken word for word but more for the general idea.

Damnit! I was hoping no one would ever get around to giving "factual" evidence against it... I wish people would do more thinking for themselves and less asking what an outdated book thinks. It's lazy, I tell you, and not much good comes from it.

Given that Roach Busters asked if there were any Scriptural evidence, and ONLY for such..... can you blame us for finally getting on-topic?

Translations of translations often get screwed up. You should find the words they have in the passage that mean premarital sex in english and look at its latin roots. The latin roots don't mean anything of the sort. Translations get screwed up and thats why the modern bible cannot be taken word for word but more for the general idea.
No! A Christian etymologist! I thought that in modern times only non-religious people cared about word roots...that gives the Church more power in my opinion. Though I am an etymology freak, to be fair.

I always figured that we naught need look at the bible, but around the social ramifications of 'pre-marital sex'. Marriage in the biblical sense was merely a way to confine women to the status of concubines whereas the man could still have extra-marital affairs--the woman could not. Does that mean also that anyone who has had sex before a christian god was created or perhaps even before Abraham was committing a sin simply by procreation?

Marraige isn't as 'sacred' as many would give it credit, especially with staggering divorce rates it seems that everyone in some way is having some kind of pre-marital sex.

Those that aren't having sex because they are 'saving' themselves have to get real and are just rationalizing because they are overweight, pimply, and paralyzed by the self-percieved inadequet size of their own 'members'. There is nothing wrong with sex and nothing wrong with Sex before marraige.

Translations of translations often get screwed up. You should find the words they have in the passage that mean premarital sex in english and look at its latin roots. The latin roots don't mean anything of the sort. Translations get screwed up and thats why the modern bible cannot be taken word for word but more for the general idea.

Ready?

http://www.biblekeeper.com/index.php <-- you can compare as many versions as you like there.

Thanks, guys! :)

My translation says "Sexual Immorality" in all of those pasages, which is much more vague. That's what happens with translations of translations...

http://bible.gospelcom.net/ lets you look up stuff in like 20 different commonly used bibles.

and while we're talking about poor translations, i've always personally liked that the jesus viring birth thing is based entirely on the fact that whoever wrote the gospel of matthew couldn't read hebrew or was working off of an already mistranslated copy of isaiah.

Pre-marital sex is not a sin!

In reply to:

"Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7

I don't know what the specific content/wording of those scriptures are, but I got them from this website: http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-before-marriage.html"

I had a quick read at bible.com and the wording is abstract to say the least. Phrases such as "indulged in unnatural lust" and "fornication, impurity, licentiousness" are all acts that can take place in or out of marriage. As far as I can tell these passages at best imply that you should have respect for your sexual partner and not indulge in seedy sex acts, I can see no irrefutable indication that these words apply to all sexual activity outside of marriage.

I actually looked up all the parts of the bible and they specifically said no fornication which is sex before marriage. I thought that maybe it was one of those things that was up to interpretation but it is said plain and simple.

Hmm, fornication in todays language is defined as sex outside of marriage but it's roots, pre-middle ages, are Latin and mean the crime of having sex with a postitute if I am not mistaken. As this book was written pre-middle ages the meaning of the latin words fornicatione and fornicatio are reasonably open to the interpretation that they refer to sex with prostitutes.

Acts 15:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 6:13,18; 7:2; 10:8; 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Jude 7

since the question of translation was brought up earlier i've decided to go back to the orginal latin and find out what it says.

these quotes are all form St. gereomes Latin vulgate finished in the early 4th century,as provided by the university of chicagos online vulgate (http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/efts/ARTFL/public/bibles/vulgate.search.html) The contextuality and accuracy of the translation provided is from me and several different translations. Definitions were gained from the University of Notre Dame latin english dictonary database. (http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latgramm.htm)

Acts 15:20 "sed scribere ad eos ut abstineant se a contaminationibus simulacrorum et fornicatione et suffocatis et sanguine"

But write to them to abstain from the contamination of idols, fornication ( the conotation here is unlawful marriage as the people surounding israel had a small habit of insestial relations, which is why it was a contending point at the concil of jerusalem) and the bloody meat of strangled things.

Romans 1:29 "repletos omni iniquitate malitia fornicatione avaritia nequitia plenos invidia homicidio contentione dolo malignitate susurrones"

they are filled with every evil, fornication (here probbly sexual imorality, as the earlier passages 1:26, 1:27 refer to homosexuality), avarice , wickedness, and they are full of vanity, murder, and they strive to make others sustain evils.

Cornithians 1 5:1 " omnino auditur inter vos fornicatio et talis fornicatio qualis nec inter gentes ita ut uxorem patris aliquis habeat"

it is said all over, that you have a fornication (sexual immorality) and it is an fornication (sexual immorality) which even the gentiles do not have; of a man living with his father's wife.

That is refering to an adulterous action, not an action of pre-marital sex.

Cornith 1 6:13 "esca ventri et venter escis Deus autem et hunc et haec destruet corpus autem non fornicationi sed Domino et Dominus corpori

Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food,(this is probbly an analogy for how god is for the body and the body for god) God will destroy this and that. However the body is not for fornication (here sex with a prostitute as the rest of the verse goes on to condem the use of prostitutes.) but for the Lord and the Lord is for the body.

i'll get around to the others latter...

Hope this helps clarify the Fornication issue

seems to me that whoever first came up with this list of references looked up the word Fornication , and used the assumtion that that would always mean pre-marital sex, but as latin has a very small vocabulary, it more closely means any sexual immorality.

make of this as you will, im just trying to prove a more contextual basis for this discusion.

Please back up what you say with direct quotations from the Scriptures. This isn't a "why" or "why not" debate, I was just wondering if the Bible specifically says anywhere in it whether or not pre-marital sex is a sin. Thanks!

And what is good, Phaedrus,
And what is not good -
Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?

Sorry, guys.
If there is a God, I simply don't think he's sadistic enough to give us urges he doesn't want us to follow.
Have sex. That's what it's there for.

God invited sex. Man invented marriage.

"Is premarital sex a sin?"

Yes, according to the Bible. It's called "fornication" and is specifically prohibited numerous times.

When studying the Bible, it's well to remember that almost all of it was written by the scribes of an extremely patriarcal nation.

I personally think that God gave us free will so we could do whatever we wanted. Bible or no anyone who does their best to be a good person is going to heaven. On a side note to all this biblical interpretation can anyone give me any reason besides "it's in the bible" and "it's wrong" for the government and we as people to be opposed to gay marriage?

Actually (and I'm sorry I can't quote it... I haven't read the Bible in ages), the Bible claims that sex really is for reproduction and to further people... I guess that means no pre-marital. But the Bible also says not to eat Pork, or do anything on Sunday.... And in all technicalities, those are sins, too.
So I wouldn't worry about it anyway. God forgives all but the violated 10 Commandments, apparently.

I personally think that God gave us free will so we could do whatever we wanted. Bible or no anyone who does their best to be a good person is going to heaven.

What makes you think there's a heaven? And if there's a heaven, shouldn't there be a hell as well, just for the sake of balance in the universe?

If you're the type to believe that it's a sin, than in your mind it's a sin. If you're not the type to believe that it's a sin, than in your mind it's not a sin. If you're the type who doesn't believe in sin, than the question doesn't make any sense. Your question leaves me utterly confused.

What makes you think there's a heaven? And if there's a heaven, shouldn't there be a hell as well, just for the sake of balance in the universe?

Well, those who don't try their hardest to be good people go to Hell. And since the term is SIN as in, the Christian word for an evil committed, we're going to assume that there is a Heaven and Hell.

Actually (and I'm sorry I can't quote it... I haven't read the Bible in ages), the Bible claims that sex really is for reproduction and to further people...
Really? The Christians stumbled upon some biological verity, because that is what the purpose of copulation in sexually reproducing organisms is. To be fair, though, the Bible has only been passed down by chaste monks who don't get any and were jealous of everyone else.

God invented sex. Man invented marriage.
Hmmm... an interesting theory. As I have already shown, I don't know the Bible as well as I know, say, the back of my hand, but I thought that there were Biblical references to God at least looking favorably on marriages.

Really? The Christians stumbled upon some biological verity, because that is what the purpose of copulation in sexually reproducing organisms is. To be fair, though, the Bible has only been passed down by chaste monks who don't get any and were jealous of everyone else.

My basic point. Sorry it wasn't clear.

To be fair, though, the Bible has only been passed down by chaste monks who don't get any and were jealous of everyone else.

Untrue. It was not uncommon for clergy to have families in the Christian Church centuries ago, and in the Eastern Orthodox church, their priests can still be married and have families to this day.

Care to try again?

until I get some it is. grrr....jocks...hatred.

Untrue. It was not uncommon for clergy to have families in the Christian Church centuries ago, and in the Eastern Orthodox church, their priests can still be married and have families to this day.
Note the word "clergy". Some priests have been allowed to marry, but how many monks? Monks were the ones for whom chastity was vital, and they were the ones who kept the books. It was still frowned upon, though. That didn't stop Pope Innocent VIII, apparently.

According to the Bible, it is a sin. Me personally, I am against it also, for the most part (despite the name, lol). However, I don't hold anything against anyone who does. Everyone has their own set of morals, as long as they stick to them and hold true to their own values then they have some integrity.

Note the word "clergy". Some priests have been allowed to marry, but how many monks? Monks were the ones for whom chastity was vital, and they were the ones who kept the books. It was still frowned upon, though. That didn't stop Pope Innocent VIII, apparently.

Indeed it was frowned on, but there were a number of monks who went into cloistered life after already having families and, as you noted, at least one Pope who had children.

By the way, is "original sin" the Biblical definition of sex? I read so in Inherit the Wind, but is it true?

As a Jew at least for the purpose of this discussion I am unfamiliar with the new testament. Leviticus however, has a great deal of things to say, many nonsensical. It says a number of rather explicit commandments in the original Hebrew that are often retranslated but many still say about the same thing. Sex before marriage did not exist according to a Rabbi that I asked this question to. This is the case because the act of having sex was interpreted to mean that the man and woman were married. After this sex with anyone else is therefore adultery.
Since this is already deviating from the scriptural, I propose another problem with sex outside of marriage in general. STDs!! Would they even resemble a problem if people were allot more controlled with their sex lives? I believe very strongly that, although it is quite the art in sense, it is immoral from the standpoint of the public welfare for people to have sex with more then one individual at a time. By this I mean that if you have no intention of committing to a long lasting relationship with someone or if you still need to get to know who they really are you ought to not have sex with them. As a rule it is generally a very bad idea for anyone still undergoing the rapid changes of early adolescence to have sex, as most relationships that are formed so early fail, often rather quickly. I would call any sort of cheating in a sexual relationship tantamount to adultery.

Hmm, fornication in todays language is defined as sex outside of marriage but it's roots, pre-middle ages, are Latin and mean the crime of having sex with a postitute if I am not mistaken. As this book was written pre-middle ages the meaning of the latin words fornicatione and fornicatio are reasonably open to the interpretation that they refer to sex with prostitutes.


read the rest of that post and the rest of the posts i made. Translations get screwed up over time and i dont care how many bibles people show me if they are in english they were translated at least 2 times if not more. Roots are what count for the most part and if you look at the words in the passage the roots mean something else entirely.

I could have sworn I saw something in the Pentatuech (Greek name for the Torah and the name I prefer, seeing as how I'm Methodist, not Jewish) that said that if you're going to have premarital sex, you must intend to marry the other person.

I actually looked up all the parts of the bible and they specifically said no fornication which is sex before marriage. I thought that maybe it was one of those things that was up to interpretation but it is said plain and simple.

Too bad guess I'm going to hell. Personally I think there is nothing wrong with it. Then it was thought wrong but now it is more accepted. Sex is for reproduction first yes but with proper protection the chances of pregnancy are so slim that they might as well not even be. I think before the translations it meant no prostitution,which is also listed there, and no birth before marriage but had nothing to do with sex. Since at that time sexual protection was unheard of it was generaly considered that sex before marriage was a sin but with our technology it is not.

Everything is open to interpretation. It depends how you look at these things. There is no wrong and there is no definate right. Look left right and behind and you will find a differernt answer then you were expecting. Did you know jahovas witnesses think it is a sin to vote? They say it's in the bible and have a quote that they will tell you if they ask. If you look at it from there point of view they are right but if you question it even a little it seems ludicris.

My translation said sexual immorality... which could mean even oral or other instances. But I will agree with you War Child, but take it one step further. I'm not necessarily condoning pre-marital sex... it's not my place to condone anything, however I don't think its a great idea. And I know from personal experience. And I'm no advocate of "if it feels good do it," it would have felt nice to stay in bed this morning, but I'm actually quite happy that I got up and accomplished something with my day. It's a good idea to look all around you for the answers, but it's an even better idea to look WITHIN you. If you feel in your heart guilty, than it most likely was wrong. If you feel in your heart that you've done no wrong, than you most likely haven't.

Please back up what you say with direct quotations from the Scriptures. This isn't a "why" or "why not" debate, I was just wondering if the Bible specifically says anywhere in it whether or not pre-marital sex is a sin. Thanks!


Just stating what was requested folks. Also, if you are curious of an explicit read, The Song of Solomon, in the bible is pretty racey for such a holy book. Okay, here is the million dollar answer:

The Seventh Commandment
"Thou shalt not commit adultery." This prohibition is designed to guard the sanctity of the home, for strictly speaking "adultery" is a crime which none but a married person can commit—"fornication" being the name of it when done by one who is single. As the One with whom we have to do is ineffably pure and holy, therefore does He require us to depart from all uncleanness. This commandment respects more especially the government of the affections and passions, the keeping of our minds and bodies in such a chaste frame that nothing impure or immodest may defile us. It requires the proper discipline of those inclinations which God has implanted for the increase of the human species. Therefore we are to avoid everything that may be an occasion of this sin, using all proper means and methods to prevent all temptations thereto.

By the way, is "original sin" the Biblical definition of sex? I read so in Inherit the Wind, but is it true?
The answer to that question is 'no'
the sin was disobedience, Adam and Eve were not to eat the fruit from the Tree of the Knowlege of Good and Evil, God did not say to them anything against having sex.

This is why a Nun told me it is a 'sin':
The Catholic church is against it because it encourages materialism of the body. In other words, giving into temptation without being willing to committ to the other person results in making an object of your body and the other persons body.
I haven't explained it very well, but that's my understanding.

Who are we kidding anyway? People are going to do it, and even if it means they're damned, there's gonna be an awfully big party in hell.

It reminds me of how one of the indian chiefs who was burned at the stake responded to the conquistador who was lighting the woodpile. He was told that if he kissed the cross being shoved in his face, he wouldn't escape being burnt, but he'd go to heaven. He asked the conquistador, "will there be more people like you there?" To which the conquistador responded in the affirmative, and the indian chief declined the invitation.

dont tell anyone this but the virgin mary wasnt really a virgin...thats just what she told everyone else....her and joseph had pre-marital sex...they were married after she was pregnant :sniper:

well i feel it isnt a sin so im fine. I think if you want to do it, if you think it is ok and it does not harm another then do it and in my book your ok. Nuns...Ugh they don't even have sex...of course they think it's a sin. Materialism can be bad. but its like saying that you dont want the bad with the good but who wants the bad with the good? nobody. so everyone sins going by the previous post.

dont tell anyone this but the virgin mary wasnt really a virgin...thats just what she told everyone else....her and joseph had pre-marital sex...they were married after she was pregnant :sniper:
When they translated the Bible they chose the word virgin eventhough the original word means both virgin and a young woman. So they just decided later that she was virgin.

Who are we kidding anyway? People are going to do it, and even if it means they're damned, there's gonna be an awfully big party in hell.

It reminds me of how one of the indian chiefs who was burned at the stake responded to the conquistador who was lighting the woodpile. He was told that if he kissed the cross being shoved in his face, he wouldn't escape being burnt, but he'd go to heaven. He asked the conquistador, "will there be more people like you there?" To which the conquistador responded in the affirmative, and the indian chief declined the invitation.

Thanks for the enlightenment. Good story. I agree not having sex before marrying is torture, much like being burned at the stake. If it wasn't meant to be an analogy, it is now. Hehe

Your analogy is good, but I meant something more like I'd rather have sex before I'm married, if it means that it will keep me out of heaven. I don't want to be in a place that's full of snotty, judgemental people who have something against anything natural or enjoyable. That sounds pretty damned miserable and cold to me. Maybe some joker switched the signs.

YES, premarital sex is a sin.

the question is tho; do you believe it?


I dont, so I dont get the guilt when having sex. :)

I do feel sory for those poor unfortunate souls who do belive it to be a sin. :(

They can believe it all they want, but I don't think of God the same way most "Christians" do. I don't think of him as mean-spirited or vengeful, and I don't try to manipulate scripture to suit whatever I think it should mean.

I have a hard time believing that God is against sex before marriage. There was sex before people thought of formalized marriage, and they did just fine. No lightning bolts or deformed babies.

When they translated the Bible they chose the word virgin eventhough the original word means both virgin and a young woman. So they just decided later that she was virgin.

even worse. the person who wrote the gospel of matthew was looking for prophecies for jesus to fulfill. they incorrectly thought that there was a prophecy about a virgin birth in the book of isaiah (due to an even earlier mistranslation), so they made up the idea that jesus was born of a virgin to fit this non-existent prophecy.

Your analogy is good, but I meant something more like I'd rather have sex before I'm married, if it means that it will keep me out of heaven. I don't want to be in a place that's full of snotty, judgemental people who have something against anything natural or enjoyable. That sounds pretty damned miserable and cold to me. Maybe some joker switched the signs.


On the terms of judgement and pretention, do you think that its possible once you've passed the earthly "tests" -makes quotations with her fingers to punctuate her point- that you will turn into a being that knows no better then the holy entity that you become? Because if we want to get really literal about the bible passing judgement on others is a sin as well. Just stirring the pot because I like to read your replies. Hmmmmm..

Please back up what you say with direct quotations from the Scriptures. This isn't a "why" or "why not" debate, I was just wondering if the Bible specifically says anywhere in it whether or not pre-marital sex is a sin. Thanks!

In the Bible, "getting married" is essentially having a party and then the couple has sex and they're married.

Essentially, if you had sex, you were married or at the very least betrothed (at the time if not before the fact), so "premarital sex" doesn't make much sense in that context.

Unless, of course, you were a female slave or a female betrothed to someone else. Then, if the guy who owned you (in the slave case) didn't want to marry you, he just had to let you go a ruined woman. If the female is betrothed to someone else and she lives in a rural area and no one saved her, you could stone the guy. If she happened to live in town and no one heard her cry out, it was assumed she was a willing party and stoned as well. However, "betrothed" was just as good as married, so this was considered adultery, not pre-marital sex.

Thus, one could argue that as long as you consider yourself married to the person you have sex with (ie. there is a long-term committment there) and you act as if you are married (ie. no cheating), you are just fine. Personally, my boyfriend and I aren't "officially" married, but we live and act as though we are. A ceremony and a piece of paper really aren't necessary. I believe that, in the eyes of God, we are married.

On the terms of judgement and pretention, do you think that its possible once you've passed the earthly "tests" -makes quotations with her fingers to punctuate her point- that you will turn into a being that knows no better then the holy entity that you become? Because if we want to get really literal about the bible passing judgement on others is a sin as well. Just stirring the pot because I like to read your replies. Hmmmmm..

Yikes. I guess I'd forgotten that, with the fundy interpretation of the entrance exam, even they won't pass. That means they'll still be with the rest of us. We won't be able to shake them, and three people who led truly virtuous lives will make it to heaven.

OR maybe it's not that tough, and they're just looking at it the wrong way. Maybe all you have to do is be decent to your fellow humans, and keep away from the 7 deadly.

Yikes. I guess I'd forgotten that, with the fundy interpretation of the entrance exam, even they won't pass. That means they'll still be with the rest of us. We won't be able to shake them, and three people who led truly virtuous lives will make it to heaven.

OR maybe it's not that tough, and they're just looking at it the wrong way. Maybe all you have to do is be decent to your fellow humans, and keep away from the 7 deadly.

It doesn't take a book of faith to understand if you do unto others and take care you mind, body and spirit that you will be happy. If not you create your own pitiful hell anyway. I agree.

The only way pre marital sex would be a sin is if you are willing to live your life a by a book which I find utterly boring and limiting to a human being's life experiances.

Damn, I hope pre-marital :fluffle: isn't a sin; otherwise I'm on a fast horse to hell. :D Actually, I'm 32 and a virgin. And my mom picks out my clothes for me.

Well, it's ten years since I was a virgin, and two years after that I got married. You do the math.

As a utilitarian, I don't like to give "scriptural evidence" (which I think is an oxymoron, personally) but here's my thoughts on the subject (even if I am a little bit late):

Sex feels so much better when you love the one you're :fluffle:ing (speaking from little experience, I must admit). However, as a purple fruit loop, any and all :fluffle: I have is pre-marital.

This sort of attitude also helps to avoid STD spread.

Well STDs are just the result of people being sloppy and selfish. You know, the ol' "I don't like condoms" song and dance, sometimes paired with their changing partners a lot. It's those people who ruin it for the rest of us.

Of course, me, I'm careful. Besides, I'm monogamous.

Translations of translations often get screwed up. You should find the words they have in the passage that mean premarital sex in english and look at its latin roots. The latin roots don't mean anything of the sort. Translations get screwed up and thats why the modern bible cannot be taken word for word but more for the general idea.

Don't you mean Greek roots. The New Testment was written Greek. The Old was mostly written in Hebrew with some Greek parts depending upon the Canon you accept.