NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/11/far04039.html

MKULTRA would love this. I personally am skeptical, but they were correct at least once.

Hmm . . . what will happen in the 2020s that will rip this nation apart?

Did I sleep through world war III or something. What happened? Who won?

Wow, this is really cool. It has been added to my favorites for several rereadings. Thanks for the wicked awesome link. :)

Definatly a democratic site. If the prediction came from Nostrodomus or something, then I might believe it. But the fact of the matter is that this nation was doomed to failure the day it was founded. Its just like Rome. It will have its time in history, then one day it will fail, and then split, dissolve, or be passed by another country.

I am a blue state liberal. Am I disappointed in the results of the election? Yeah. Am I going to try to start a revolution or move to Canada? No way. The fact is that we Americans may be divided on some issues, but we work through those divisions through debate and democracy.

http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/11/far04039.html

MKULTRA would love this. I personally am skeptical, but they were correct at least once.

Seems simmilar to Paul Krugman's theory in his book the "Great Unravelling".
Here is my personal theory.

Stage1
1789-1929 America is sailing smooth, the rich are rich the poor are poor and that’s just the way it is.

Stage 2
1929-1989 World depression hits, the masses of people give up on liberal democracy for Socialism and Fascism. The surviving liberal democracies realize they have to shape up in order to stay in power. They raise wages, introduce civil rights reforms, and provide social benefits to their people.

Stage 3
1989-present Capitalism is safe, no we go back to Stage 1. The rich are rich the poor are poor, no civil rights, no social safety net, vicious war and competition

Definatly a democratic site. If the prediction came from Nostrodomus or something, then I might believe it. But the fact of the matter is that this nation was doomed to failure the day it was founded. Its just like Rome. It will have its time in history, then one day it will fail, and then split, dissolve, or be passed by another country.

True enough. Then again, this is true for all nations.

For one thing, even if the theory is correct, we've got another ten to twenty years before the next major turning point in our history. All I see here is more hysteria.

Oh please...this is just another person with an agenda against Bush...I can't believe you people still fall for these. It's not about some cataclysmic event, it's demonization of our president on the basis of lies. Have any of you actually seen or experienced these gigantic divides of oppression? No. Are you regularly being fed lies about the world by the government? No. It's ironic how these crackpots claim that Bush's religious agenda is destroying our society, yet their conspiracy theories function the same way as religion: form a (n absurd) belief, look for unproven "evidence" supporting it, write a book about it, and brainwash others into believing it. Way to go, hypocrites.

Oh please...this is just another person with an agenda against Bush...I can't believe you people still fall for these. It's not about some cataclysmic event, it's demonization of our president on the basis of lies. Have any of you actually seen or experienced these gigantic divides of oppression? No. Are you regularly being fed lies about the world by the government? No. It's ironic how these crackpots claim that Bush's religious agenda is destroying our society, yet their conspiracy theories function the same way as religion: form a (n absurd) belief, look for unproven "evidence" supporting it, write a book about it, and brainwash others into believing it. Way to go, hypocrites.

We are regularly fed lies by the government. There are gigantic economic and racial divides in this nation. Corporations do their best to control the wants and needs of the people, and the government who receives millions of dollars from the corporations, does their best to create percieved needs for the people. Whether it be fear mongering by democrats or republicans they are just creating a need amongst the population for the corporations to plunder.

Blind shot predictions tend to not have a whole lot of correctness to them. Yes America is divided, but not so much as to cause violence. I have heard Europeans talk about how we'd have riots in the US if Bush won by whatever margin, and there haven't been any.

The division in the US is overexaggerated, chiefly by the 24 hour news, they need to make it seem like something is really cooking.

We aren't going to go into a totalitarian state. We are safe from that. Bush isn't a fascist, nor are there any other notable pols out there who might count as fascists.

We are currently on a path from the low point of the Iraq war towards trying to get back in with our allies. We have made mistakes, and we aren't correcting them rapidly enough, but we are attempting to do so.

I have to jump in with my skepticism as well. No one can predict the future. You can make semi-rational guesses, but you can never ever predict it.

For example, Nostradamus wrote an awful lot of predictions that can be true upon interpretation, but that means they can also not be true on interpretation. There is no empirical evidence behind mythical prediction. The world does not run in cycles. The world is a very mundane place.

It is the natural reaction of the human mind to try to rationalize the state of things by putting it with a number (like in Pi) or in cycles or something. I hate to say it, but the world is random and unplanned.

The early 2000's look really nice compared to the 1970's and early 30's. Just thought I'd put my head on the chopping block.

We are regularly fed lies by the government. There are gigantic economic and racial divides in this nation. Corporations do their best to control the wants and needs of the people, and the government who receives millions of dollars from the corporations, does their best to create percieved needs for the people. Whether it be fear mongering by democrats or republicans they are just creating a need amongst the population for the corporations to plunder.
You still sound ridiculous, and you did nothing to refute my points. I'll help you along:
[1]What government source do you get your news from?
[2]Economic and racial divides = economic divides which happen to also be racial. Of course there are "gigantic" economic divides: we're a capitalist nation, smart one.
[3]Of course corporations try to control the needs and wants of the people. After all, they are just trying to make money. Does this mean you are forced to buy from them? I think not.
[4]Receive millions of dollars from corporations? They're called taxes, buddy. Oh, and lobbying. But of course, who needs free speech?
[5]Create perceived needs? If by that you mean "make people believe they need things they don't," then I'm not sure what you're talking about. Terrorism? Oh yeah, I forgot, 9/11 was a big hoax.
[6]Fear mongering? Explain. (Hint: Dick Cheney said the terrorists would attack if we elected Kerry. Take it. I'm giving you a little help here.)

Someone's been listening to a little too much Rage Against the Machine.

No really people, WTF happened to world war III.

No really people, WTF happened to world war III.
It was a cold war. The Soviets lost. We're on to world war IV now. The west vs. Islamofascism

No really people, WTF happened to world war III.
A lot of people consider the Cold War world war 3. They are the same people who say the war on terror is WW4. I'm sure when we attack some other god forsaken patch of desert like Sudan or something they will declare that WW5 has begun. I personally don't think we should use the term for anything other than bona fide world wars. It cheapens the legacy of those actual heroes who died in the only two real world wars.

It was a cold war. The Soviets lost. We're on to world war IV now. The west vs. Islamofascism

Pshaw. Why didn't they call it that at the time.

The next one is world war III. I refuse to allow people to just pick and choose numbers all willy-nilly. We should have some order here.

(After all you could class the French and Indian war as part of a World War, making it World War I. Then what would happen to the number system. eh?)

A lot of people consider the Cold War world war 3. They are the same people who say the war on terror is WW4. I'm sure when we attack some other god forsaken patch of desert like Sudan or something they will declare that WW5 has begun. I personally don't think we should use the term for anything other than bona fide world wars. It cheapens the legacy of those actual heroes who died in the only two real world wars.


Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one. :)

A lot of people consider the Cold War world war 3. They are the same people who say the war on terror is WW4. I'm sure when we attack some other god forsaken patch of desert like Sudan or something they will declare that WW5 has begun. I personally don't think we should use the term for anything other than bona fide world wars. It cheapens the legacy of those actual heroes who died in the only two real world wars.
No, sudan is a future battlefield of WWIV

Some people in this topic have been saying that the U.S. will dissolve someday. I will tell you now that that would never happen. Do you know why? Its because we are the beacon of light to the world. If we dissolved, there goes the world. Also, its because unlike other countries, our citizens have faith in democracy. The worst thing we could do right now is hate our own country for voting for Bush. That's what divides a country, not its leaders. Its usually the Hollywood morons who don't know a thing about politics and are just trying to gain publicity. How about we just ignore them and get on with our lives.

I am a blue state liberal. Am I disappointed in the results of the election? Yeah. Am I going to try to start a revolution or move to Canada? No way. The fact is that we Americans may be divided on some issues, but we work through those divisions through debate and democracy.

Brrr wrong Answer
Civil War
Revolutionary War
Two things that split the nation
You could say Segregationism
maybe even Nam

Brrr wrong Answer
Civil War
Revolutionary War
Two things that split the nation
You could say Segregationism
maybe even Nam
After the civil war there was never a real possibility of the US splitting up. We have our differences, but we settle them.

No, sudan is a future battlefield of WWIV
some would say the 30 years war was WWI

Pshaw. Why didn't they call it that at the time.

The next one is world war III. I refuse to allow people to just pick and choose numbers all willy-nilly. We should have some order here.

(After all you could class the French and Indian war as part of a World War, making it World War I. Then what would happen to the number system. eh?)
same goes for the Napoleonic Wars (War of 1812 included). That' would be WWII.

Isn't this called Barnumising? Something like that anyway. Making sweeping grand statements that, on examination, turn out to say nothing at all. Let's take each sentence separately...

Around the year 2005, a sudden spark will catalyze a Crisis mood. A crisis mood? So in about 2005, there will be doomsayers around. OK, well that's uncommon. Never had people predicting thend of things before.... Remnants of the old social order will disintegrate. Isn't that a constant and normal thing? At any given time there is usually some (organisation, country, church, insert institution here) that is collapsing or restructuring? Again - a generalisation that sounds portentious. Political and economic trust will implode. Again, a cyclic phenomenon. No prediction there.Real hardship will beset the land, with severe distress that could involve questions of class, race, nation, and empire. well, that covered just about anything likely to cause controversy, didn't it?Yet this time of trouble will bring seeds of social rebirth. When doesn't it? And when isn't there "trouble"? Americans will share a regret about recent mistakes -- and a resolute new consensus about what to do. From what I see in the media, this is a very frequent sentiment. Mistakes? Mistakes like what? Sliding down the wrong waterslide and ending up in the kiddy pool full of pee? Consensus - go down another pipe next time? I know this is a ridiculous example, I am just trying to highlight the vagueness of this statement...The very survival of the nation will feel at stake. Isn't there always someone in the media explaining why the survival of the nation "as we know it" is at stake? And "feel" at stake? Jeez, how much more tentative can you be and still call it a prophecy?

Look, I don't know whether prophecy exists or not, I just don't think this is it. :gundge:

same goes for the Napoleonic Wars (War of 1812 included). That' would be WWII.
I declare the Spanish American War to be world war 3! That war raged from Cuba to the Phillipines!

Isn't this called Barnumising? Something like that anyway. Making sweeping grand statements that, on examination, turn out to say nothing at all. Let's take each sentence separately...

That's true. Exact same manner by which astrology "works." Gotta love broad statements.

After the civil war there was never a real possibility of the US splitting up. We have our differences, but we settle them.

No but the Civil war did split the country

Hmm . . . what will happen in the 2020s that will rip this nation apart?

The Olsen twins will be old enough to run for president. :(

The Olsen twins will be old enough to run for president. :(
Druthulhu's got it.

The Olsen twins will be old enough to run for president. :(

...As Fortold In the Prophecy!

same goes for the Napoleonic Wars (War of 1812 included). That' would be WWII.
true dat

The Olsen twins will be old enough to run for president. :(
No no no. You don't understand. The (ammended) constitution gives women the right to _vote_ for president. Just vote.

I predict that in the near future there will be an attempt to change the American system of government. Why do I think this will happen? Because I'm the one who plans to attempt it. Seriously, that's the only way non-vague predictions come true: someone hears the prediction (or makes it) and acts on it.

You still sound ridiculous, and you did nothing to refute my points. I'll help you along:
[1]What government source do you get your news from?
[2]Economic and racial divides = economic divides which happen to also be racial. Of course there are "gigantic" economic divides: we're a capitalist nation, smart one.
[3]Of course corporations try to control the needs and wants of the people. After all, they are just trying to make money. Does this mean you are forced to buy from them? I think not.
[4]Receive millions of dollars from corporations? They're called taxes, buddy. Oh, and lobbying. But of course, who needs free speech?
[5]Create perceived needs? If by that you mean "make people believe they need things they don't," then I'm not sure what you're talking about. Terrorism? Oh yeah, I forgot, 9/11 was a big hoax.
[6]Fear mongering? Explain. (Hint: Dick Cheney said the terrorists would attack if we elected Kerry. Take it. I'm giving you a little help here.)

Someone's been listening to a little too much Rage Against the Machine.

[1] I try not to get my news from the government, other than PBS. I try to find as many varying opinions as I can. But there are few news program that address the growing problem of corporate dominance of America.
[2] We are in agreement on this.
[3] We as a nation are forced to buy from them. There is no way private suppliers could supply this nation. In the current government set up, large multinational corporations have far fewer regulations and gain far more help from the government.
[4] Yes it is called lobbying. That and the fact that almost the entire White House came from the military and oil sector. Almost all politicians either come from corporate level law firms or have been the members of several corporate boards. There is a deep, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours type of thing going on. It's on both sides, the only thing politicians do for the people is divide them up and claim them so that they can be the ones in power.
[5] 9/11 was obviously not a hoax, the government didn't plan it, none of that conspiracy crap. The "war on terror", is a hoax. There is no plausible way to wage a conventional war on terror. What it does do is create a need to build the military. The present administration wants a build up, not to fight terrorism, but to follow up on the PNAC plan to build a military that can fight on two fronts, and control most major oil supplies to act as a cap to Chinese economic growth. The individuals in the White House just happen to be from both the oil import and export industry and military investments.
[6] You already show you understand what I mean by fear-mongering.

Stage1
1789-1929 America is sailing smooth, the rich are rich the poor are poor and that’s just the way it is.

Stage 2
1929-1989 World depression hits, the masses of people give up on liberal democracy for Socialism and Fascism. The surviving liberal democracies realize they have to shape up in order to stay in power. They raise wages, introduce civil rights reforms, and provide social benefits to their people.

Stage 3
1989-present Capitalism is safe, no we go back to Stage 1. The rich are rich the poor are poor, no civil rights, no social safety net, vicious war and competition
1789-1929 smooth? You had a Civil War! The workers of America lived in total poverty. They were slaves to the Company. It was essentially the consequence of total economic liberalism.

I have noticed that in the 25 years since Reagan started his reforms, America has been sliding back into the old economy of the late 19th/early 20th century, with increasing corporate dominance of society. Reagan and his intellectual heirs have undone much of the progress made by Theodore Roosevelt and the other trust-busters.

It's like history is repeating itself 100 years on.

You still sound ridiculous, and you did nothing to refute my points. I'll help you along:
[1]What government source do you get your news from?
You don't have to get news from a government-owned source to hear government lies. The media takes most of what the government says at face value and faithfully reports it. Little investigative journalism takes place.

1789-1929 smooth? You had a Civil War! The workers of America lived in total poverty. They were slaves to the Company. It was essentially the consequence of total economic liberalism.

I have noticed that in the 25 years since Reagan started his reforms, America has been sliding back into the old economy of the late 19th/early 20th century, with increasing corporate dominance of society. Reagan and his intellectual heirs have undone much of the progress made by Theodore Roosevelt and the other trust-busters.

It's like history is repeating itself 100 years on.

So you roughly agree with me?

Actually I think perhaps we are going back to the days long before even the industrial revolution to the days of Mercantilist economic thought, where people like Thomas Munn believed that the way for a country to become powerful was too export as much as possible and keep you domestic consumption down to a minimum. A lot of economists are down right giddy about the collapse in value of the dollar because they think it will mean we will export more becaue our products will be cheaper, but we will spend less because imports will be more expensive. Basically that a decline in our standard of living will be a good thing.

We are engaged an economic struggle with risng asian powers like India and China who are blowing us out of the water with cheap labor and hardworkers. Our leaders, seeing the writing on the wall have obviously taking measures to us more like these low wage paradises by doing things like crushing unions, forcing workers to pick up the tab for healthcare, allowing wages to stagnate and decline etc. The idea is to beat china we have to become china, reduce wages to the survival point, discard humane notions of universal healthcare
and sell lots of cheap crap to the rest of the world.

I don't blame Bush for this, Clinton did his part to nail the coffin shut on the American working class by passing free trade agreeements like WTO and NAFTA. This diliberate dismantling of the American manufacturing base is seemingly based on Ricardo's idea of "comparative advantage", that is that we will be should focus on what we produce most efficently and trade for everything else. Since China and India can produce all the world's manufactured goods at 1/20th the labor cost, we should produce services which we are still pretty good at. I think this is suicide since students in Asia study way harder than we do especially in the fields that matter, science, math, computer science etc. and will be blowing us out of the water in the Service sector soon too.

In short what I am trying to say is America is American Airlines huge, bloated overpriced and inefficent with its highly paid unionized employees. China and India are Jet blue, effiecent sleek, with ununionized employees who make crap.
I could just be paranoid though.

[1] I try not to get my news from the government, other than PBS. I try to find as many varying opinions as I can. But there are few news program that address the growing problem of corporate dominance of America.
[2] We are in agreement on this.
[3] We as a nation are forced to buy from them. There is no way private suppliers could supply this nation. In the current government set up, large multinational corporations have far fewer regulations and gain far more help from the government.
[4] Yes it is called lobbying. That and the fact that almost the entire White House came from the military and oil sector. Almost all politicians either come from corporate level law firms or have been the members of several corporate boards. There is a deep, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours type of thing going on. It's on both sides, the only thing politicians do for the people is divide them up and claim them so that they can be the ones in power.
[5] 9/11 was obviously not a hoax, the government didn't plan it, none of that conspiracy crap. The "war on terror", is a hoax. There is no plausible way to wage a conventional war on terror. What it does do is create a need to build the military. The present administration wants a build up, not to fight terrorism, but to follow up on the PNAC plan to build a military that can fight on two fronts, and control most major oil supplies to act as a cap to Chinese economic growth. The individuals in the White House just happen to be from both the oil import and export industry and military investments.
[6] You already show you understand what I mean by fear-mongering.
[1]Perhaps few news programs don't address it a)because most news stations are owned by corporations, b)because there is no "corporate dominance" in the first place, and c)even if there were, I don't see the problem. Corporations are composed of people who willlingly work for them.
[2]So then don't act as if it were a problem.
[3]We are certainly not forced to buy from them! I believe small businesses comprise something like 51% of our economy (though I pretty sure that I'm horribly misquoting my source (radio program) - I think it is 51% of US citizens work for small businesses; either way, you get the point). If that's corporate dominance, then call me a slave. Of course the government helps corporations: they are the backbone of our economy. Why should they have tons of regulations? As long as they are not utterly destroying the environment, enslaving their employees, or exploiting too enormous of a monopoly, let them go about their business.
[4]Did it ever occur to you that people from the military and oil sector are people who generally have leadership skills? Furthermore, who do you think is gonna to be rich enough to buy their way into office? Certainly not your school janitor. Who do you think the oil man is going to be friends with? Certainly not your school janitor. There's your explanation for why there are military and oil people are in the White House. And who is to say that that is so bad? Who better understands foreign policy and the US military than someone who has served? Who better is going to understand the economy and government relationships with big business than someone who has kicked ass in a corporation? You really need to stop demonizing these people just because you don't have a common background with them and they happen to be rich.
[5]Oh...that guy would have had me believing that. "The war on terror is a hoax." So you deny that we are actively in other nations seeking out and killing terrorists? What were you complaining about in the first place? The Iraq war? Let's think about this for a second...what is the best way to unite the people of a nation? War. What are you complaining about? Lack of unity. What do you blame it on? War. What do you propose we do?
[6]But is it really fear-mongering? I think it's perfectly logical to say that it is likely that terrorists will attack due to the US's failure to protect its citizens due to poor policies imposed by the President. I mean, the guy's campaigning for the Republican party. Give'em a break.

I am a blue state liberal. Am I disappointed in the results of the election? Yeah. Am I going to try to start a revolution or move to Canada? No way. The fact is that we Americans may be divided on some issues, but we work through those divisions through debate and democracy.


hey, Least you guys stay together and disaprove of the out come. here in Canada, any time someone dosent like what happens they try and form their own country "IM LOOKIN AT YOU QUEBEC!" Canadian Federalism is indeed in Jeperdy "spelling?" i hear that Ontatio is the only provence that we sing the national Anthem in school. its disaponting. i give america one for long term Unity.

[QUOTE=Holy Paradise]Some people in this topic have been saying that the U.S. will dissolve someday. I will tell you now that that would never happen. Do you know why? Its because we are the beacon of light to the world.
QUOTE]
The US is built on a system that obviously has more staying power than a dictatorship or something of that nature, but nothing lasts forever.

[1]Perhaps few news programs don't address it a)because most news stations are owned by corporations, b)because there is no "corporate dominance" in the first place, and c)even if there were, I don't see the problem. Corporations are composed of people who willlingly work for them.
[2]So then don't act as if it were a problem.
[3]We are certainly not forced to buy from them! I believe small businesses comprise something like 51% of our economy (though I pretty sure that I'm horribly misquoting my source (radio program) - I think it is 51% of US citizens work for small businesses; either way, you get the point). If that's corporate dominance, then call me a slave. Of course the government helps corporations: they are the backbone of our economy. Why should they have tons of regulations? As long as they are not utterly destroying the environment, enslaving their employees, or exploiting too enormous of a monopoly, let them go about their business.
[4]Did it ever occur to you that people from the military and oil sector are people who generally have leadership skills? Furthermore, who do you think is gonna to be rich enough to buy their way into office? Certainly not your school janitor. Who do you think the oil man is going to be friends with? Certainly not your school janitor. There's your explanation for why there are military and oil people are in the White House. And who is to say that that is so bad? Who better understands foreign policy and the US military than someone who has served? Who better is going to understand the economy and government relationships with big business than someone who has kicked ass in a corporation? You really need to stop demonizing these people just because you don't have a common background with them and they happen to be rich.
[5]Oh...that guy would have had me believing that. "The war on terror is a hoax." So you deny that we are actively in other nations seeking out and killing terrorists? What were you complaining about in the first place? The Iraq war? Let's think about this for a second...what is the best way to unite the people of a nation? War. What are you complaining about? Lack of unity. What do you blame it on? War. What do you propose we do?
[6]But is it really fear-mongering? I think it's perfectly logical to say that it is likely that terrorists will attack due to the US's failure to protect its citizens due to poor policies imposed by the President. I mean, the guy's campaigning for the Republican party. Give'em a break.

[1] I think it is obvious that there is a government supported corporate dominance over America. You get your news from corporations, you get almost all of your goods from corporations. Almost all books are published by corporations.
[2] You and I agree that there is a huge economic divide. That means there are a great many powerless individuals, and a few individuals who are too powerful. Small business owners receive very little help from the government and are solely liable for business failings. The corporate elite can bankrupt corporation after corporation and who is liable for that? The powerless lower and middle class who pay their income taxes, at least what income taxes they paid before they were laid-off.
[3] Here are some numbers from www.laborresearch.org. There are approximately 5 million employers in the US. 930 companies employ 10,000 or more workers. This accounts for 27.3 of the labor force in America. 3.5% of that 5 million employers employ 500 workers or more, and that accounts for 57.7% of the entire workforce. So more than half the workforce is employed by the largest 3.5% of companies in the US. Of these largest sector wages are dropping rapidly, deunionization is occurring, and average work hours are falling.
[4] First off, I said military investments. With the resignation of Colin Powell none of the highups in this administration served with the military. Secondly, most of them haven't kicked ass in a corporation. In fact, George Bush was a huge failure in the corporate sector, but due to corporate backscratching he came out smelling like roses after every failure. Also, a very large percentage of the members of this cabinet were lobbyists for large industries. Now they oversee the ways in which corporations are regulated, and I don't believe that they have the consumer in mind.
[5] No, we had unity before the war in Iraq, now we have a very stark lack of unity. We also are fighting terrorists in covert, unconventional ways. The biggest army on earth is nothing but a sitting target for terrorists. We track down terrorists through intelligence networks and cooperation with foreign terrorist networks. What we are doing in Iraq is killing insurgents, the terrorists that are going to hit us with a nuke are not concerned about killing a few Americans in Iraq.
War is also another brilliant way to further cause a class division, also.
[6] The entire purpose of the terror alerts is to instill a sense of fear into the public. As long as the terror level is constantly shifting from orange to red, people aren't likely to care how many soldiers die in Iraq, because they are lead to believe that we are in dire danger and that the soldiers are fighting to protect us. The soldiers are fighting honorably and with more determination than I could ever muster, but to say the ones in Iraq are defending us is a stretch. And with every resistance that bubbles up in Iraq, and for every terrorist we track down in Pakistan, you care less and less that the deficit is skyrocketing in order to offer corporate level tax breaks. You don't care that the Fed is purposefully driving down the dollar and lowering your quality of living so that corporations can more successfully export goods.

I declare the Spanish American War to be world war 3! That war raged from Cuba to the Phillipines!
Nah Two peoples and the Americans were lucky they didnt get their arses kicked thought they were going to a tea party

hey, Least you guys stay together and disaprove of the out come. here in Canada, any time someone dosent like what happens they try and form their own country "IM LOOKIN AT YOU QUEBEC!" Canadian Federalism is indeed in Jeperdy "spelling?" i hear that Ontatio is the only provence that we sing the national Anthem in school. its disaponting. i give america one for long term Unity.
True

Emobuddy -

We shouldn't act like it's a problem because you don't see it as one? :D Bite Me.

Emobuddy -

We shouldn't act like it's a problem because you don't see it as one? :D Bite Me.
Why should we view a poor rich gap as an problem in a capitalist society? Isn't that the point of capitalism? Those who succeed become rich, those who do not become poor. It is foolish to say that this is wrong: 1)It is how our economic system functions, 2)It ain't gonna change. Grow up and accept that the world isn't going to follow your liberal ideals and create a utopia of free speech, social and economic equality, and fair, just political processes.

Why should we view a poor rich gap as an problem in a capitalist society? Isn't that the point of capitalism? Those who succeed become rich, those who do not become poor. It is foolish to say that this is wrong: 1)It is how our economic system functions, 2)It ain't gonna change. Grow up and accept that the world isn't going to follow your liberal ideals and create a utopia of free speech, social and economic equality, and fair, just political processes.
Yeah, but how poor should the poor be allowed to become? I think anyone who works full time deserves to get a roof over his head, food on his table, clothes on his back and decent medical care. Since the rich have benefited most from the capitalist system (and they can afford it) they should pay the bill.

[1] I think it is obvious that there is a government supported corporate dominance over America. You get your news from corporations, you get almost all of your goods from corporations. Almost all books are published by corporations.
[2] You and I agree that there is a huge economic divide. That means there are a great many powerless individuals, and a few individuals who are too powerful. Small business owners receive very little help from the government and are solely liable for business failings. The corporate elite can bankrupt corporation after corporation and who is liable for that? The powerless lower and middle class who pay their income taxes, at least what income taxes they paid before they were laid-off.
[3] Here are some numbers from www.laborresearch.org. There are approximately 5 million employers in the US. 930 companies employ 10,000 or more workers. This accounts for 27.3 of the labor force in America. 3.5% of that 5 million employers employ 500 workers or more, and that accounts for 57.7% of the entire workforce. So more than half the workforce is employed by the largest 3.5% of companies in the US. Of these largest sector wages are dropping rapidly, deunionization is occurring, and average work hours are falling.
[4] First off, I said military investments. With the resignation of Colin Powell none of the highups in this administration served with the military. Secondly, most of them haven't kicked ass in a corporation. In fact, George Bush was a huge failure in the corporate sector, but due to corporate backscratching he came out smelling like roses after every failure. Also, a very large percentage of the members of this cabinet were lobbyists for large industries. Now they oversee the ways in which corporations are regulated, and I don't believe that they have the consumer in mind.
[5] No, we had unity before the war in Iraq, now we have a very stark lack of unity. We also are fighting terrorists in covert, unconventional ways. The biggest army on earth is nothing but a sitting target for terrorists. We track down terrorists through intelligence networks and cooperation with foreign terrorist networks. What we are doing in Iraq is killing insurgents, the terrorists that are going to hit us with a nuke are not concerned about killing a few Americans in Iraq.
War is also another brilliant way to further cause a class division, also.
[6] The entire purpose of the terror alerts is to instill a sense of fear into the public. As long as the terror level is constantly shifting from orange to red, people aren't likely to care how many soldiers die in Iraq, because they are lead to believe that we are in dire danger and that the soldiers are fighting to protect us. The soldiers are fighting honorably and with more determination than I could ever muster, but to say the ones in Iraq are defending us is a stretch. And with every resistance that bubbles up in Iraq, and for every terrorist we track down in Pakistan, you care less and less that the deficit is skyrocketing in order to offer corporate level tax breaks. You don't care that the Fed is purposefully driving down the dollar and lowering your quality of living so that corporations can more successfully export goods.
[1]You may get all of your things from corporations, but is that because someone is forcing you to, or because they make the highest quality products? Answer honestly.
[2]"The corporate elite can bankrupt corporation after corporation, and who is liable for that?" 1)Those who work for the company. Namely: CEO's down to low-level workers. No one was forcing those workers to work there. If their company goes bankrupt, yes, it's unfortunate, but that's the risk you take. You really need to stop assuming that everything in the business world is 'fair.' Just like life, random shit happens and injustices occur, but do we start a revolution over it? No, as mature individuals we overcome the obstacles and accept that sometimes life is unfair.
[3]...meaning that the other 33.3% aren't being 'enslaved' by corporations and are working in small business. Again, look at reality: Big companies have lots of employees, therefore the percent of the workforce compared to the percent of large companies with which the workforce is employed is going to be disproportionate. Do you use your brain?
[4]If he came out smelling like roses even after failing, he must know something about the corporate world. Shouldn't this fact make him more, not less, impressive to you? Speaking of facts, could you cite some sources regarding his "failures?" Who do you think is more involved in the political process than lobbyists? Few but politicians work as much with the government as lobbyists, so doesn't it make sense that a few should cross over the line and work for the government? They have the economy in mind, which ultimately benefits the consumer.
[5]We have a lack of unity because the Democratic Party has decided to conduct itself in a way that agressive rather than cooperative towards the Republicans. We have a lack of unity because Hollywood stars with agendas get up on the stage and (yes, I'm using the word again) demonize the president on the most ridiculous grounds. Since much of America blindly worships these half-plasitic, overpaid jackasses, you start to get a large percentage of the population irrationally hating the President. You have conspiracy theorists such as the quoted author or Michael Moore spreading absolute nonsense about the government, and people are listening. That is why you have a lack of unity.
[6]You liberals can't have it both ways: first, you blame the Bush administration for not "warning" us about 9/11, then you have the nerve to complain when they issue a terror alert level, which is just about the best warning you can have for a terrorist attack. Again, hypocrisy. So if all those insurgents were not fighting US soldiers, what would they be doing? Sitting peacefully at home, thankful that they have an oppressive dictator ruling their country? Oh, and what about those who are fighting because they benefitted under Saddam? Yep, I'm they would really be furthering US interests. Of course, there is some propaganda being spread about "fighting for freedom" and bullshit like that, but that is typical wartime government. Why should we panic about the national deficit now all of a sudden? This country has been operating under deficit for most of its 200+ year history. The US Dollar's value is based on well-earned economic trust with foreign nations. Nobody is "driving the value of the dollar down." That is a natural economic cycle; think about how much a dollar was worth in the 1800s.

Why should we view a poor rich gap as an problem in a capitalist society? Isn't that the point of capitalism? Those who succeed become rich, those who do not become poor. It is foolish to say that this is wrong: 1)It is how our economic system functions, 2)It ain't gonna change. Grow up and accept that the world isn't going to follow your liberal ideals and create a utopia of free speech, social and economic equality, and fair, just political processes.

It's only not a problem if you accept that that is the way it should be. Which you have. Genius.

It's only not a problem if you accept that that is the way it should be. Which you have. Genius.
I have accepted it because I truly believe it is the best way for a government to function. Trust me, for a while, I was one of you "go get those dirty bastards running corporations because they make it so not everyone gets the same amount of money," but since then I've come to realize that this is just stupid. It means that lazy-ass people like myself make just the same amount of money as people with true talent and work ethic, which leads to a sense of dissatisfaction for those who deserve satisfaction the most, not to mention causing the economy to collapse after a while. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Why do you think we are the most economically potent nation in the world?