NationStates Jolt Archive

What difference would the existence of a god make to this world - which clearly (to me and many other people, at least) doesn't have one.

Would a god be rational, responsible, consistent, fair?

What characteristics should a god have?

What would life be like if there were a god?
Terrifying [sp]

God seems to vary depending on who's telling aobut him.

I think the world would be a much better place with the God I'd like, as unnecessary suffering would cease, and there could be instant punishment for those who commit sins against others, but not without the chance to redeem themselves.

Also, the environemtn would be safe and stable, the world wouldn't suffer "Ages" and perhaps we might just be a little closer to World Peace with an omnipotent, all-pervsive, omnipresent power guiding us.

But then,that's just my God.

<snip nice things>
But then,that's just my God.

Hmmm, nice idea - but we've got to get rid of the ones people think we've got, first.

Would a god be rational, responsible, consistent, fair?
One would like to hope so, but if it were the one that Christians profess already exist, then I doubt it. In a fit of pique, for simply not conforming to his way of thinking, that God would condemn those he alledgely loves to eternal torture.

Hmmm, nice idea - but we've got to get rid of the ones people think we've got, first.
True, but that's impossible cos people aren't willing to listen to reaons above faith, and, in fairness, the other way around too.

Anyway, a god should be benevolent, just but forgiving, rational (although Aquinas said rationality is a human contruct, so gods are beyond it) certainly consistent and caring and generous, never unwilling to use his powers for the betterment of the earth as a whole.

Scary. Anyone having absolute power without absolute mercy is an unnerving concept.

Let's see.. If he were omnipotent, a little humiliating. >.>

And I dunno, it'd all depend on what the god was like. Corrupt or Just or Insane, etc.

It truly is hard to be religious when certain assholes aren't stricken dead by holy lightning on a day to day basis.

It truly is hard to be religious when certain assholes aren't stricken dead by holy lightning on a day to day basis.
That's why I lost my faith, and I used to be devout Catholic.

It's hard to watch people who ahve always been good, kind generous and pious suffer terribly and then see people who are entirely corrupt morally, spiritually and emotionally live long and can avoid suffering.

that's why my God would be great! :)

there is one living god in heaven.

there is one living god in heaven.
No sign of him down here, though.

The fact of knowing theres a God and believing theres a God is totally different. God loves you right...So God poured out his grace, which is unmeritted favor, to forgive you. So if God were being fair and the bible says that man brought sin into this world then why shouldnt we all be sent to Hell which we so justly deserve. So think about that next time you think God isnt fair.

So if God were being fair and the bible says that man brought sin into this world then why shouldnt we all be sent to Hell which we so justly deserve.

Because God would bore himself if everyone went to Hell

If there was a god he would be a sadistic bastard, the architect of death, disease, famine ,pain and every base instinct man has ever given into.
A pervert and a voyeur drawing an odd pleasure from the fact that many of his creations actually consider him to be benign!

The fact of knowing theres a God and believing theres a God is totally different. God loves you right...So God poured out his grace, which is unmeritted favor, to forgive you. So if God were being fair and the bible says that man brought sin into this world then why shouldnt we all be sent to Hell which we so justly deserve. So think about that next time you think God isnt fair.
Here's another thing, why am I, as an unwitting descendent of Adam & Eve (according to Creationism) held responsible for the sin of my predecessors? If someone's father were a thief, they themselves are not held accountable for his actions. And how much self-validation does this God need to require a declaration of faith to be made in him before he will save a person?

These are all question of reality that cloud the issue for me.

Also, my post earlier showed a God I'd like.

Your not punished because of Adam and Eves sin.We sin because of Adam and Eve

So original sin is a myth?

Plus in the beginning God created all things for good...There was no death famine or disease.It was because sin came into the world that death and famine and disease entered into the world.God didnt make it bad we did because of our sin

If orginal sin is a myth then i wouldnt be able to sin at all...i would have no idea what sin was at all. So if there is no God then what are we here for. Just to live then die. Kinda meaningless

Plus in the beginning God created all things for good...There was no death famine or disease.It was because sin came into the world that death and famine and disease entered into the world.God didnt make it bad we did because of our sin
So "In the beginning there was no death, no famine and no disease" and of course you say that it was our(mankinds) sin that brought these things into the world. Can I ask you what your explanation is for the extinction of the dinosaurs given that they existed before humanity, hence before any of humanitys sins and subsequently(according to you) existed in a world without death famine or disease?

Reminds me of a Bill Hicks sketch :p

There were dinosaurs mentioned in the bible. Look in Job

Also in Psalm and Isaiah

If orginal sin is a myth then i wouldnt be able to sin at all...i would have no idea what sin was at all. So if there is no God then what are we here for. Just to live then die. Kinda meaningless
What I was implying is that, if we sin because of Adam and Eve, or rather as you seem to be suggesitng, are only CAPABLE of sin because of Adam and Eve's sin, why are we born with original sin already on our souls? Surely each new soul should be given the opportunity to avoid the temptation of sin, rather than being condemned to it from birth? This would be a far more just system of a fair God.

If there were a god he'd be going insane with boredom as he's been around for eternity-theres nothing left to do, and he's bored to insanity.

The same would happen to humans. Oblivion is a much more merciful release.

So think about that next time you think God isnt fair. The only thing I think about god is that he doesn't exist.

If there were a god he'd be going insane with boredom as he's been around for eternity-theres nothing left to do, and he's bored to insanity.

The same would happen to humans. Oblivion is a much more merciful release.
God is Omniscient. Therefore time does not control him like it does us.

There were dinosaurs mentioned in the bible. Look in Job
So are you saying that the mass extinction (paleontologists say took place 65 million years ago) happened before or after the existance of adam and eve- help me understand what you are saying here.

Your not punished because of Adam and Eves sin.We sin because of Adam and EveSpeak for yourself.

Reminds me of a Bill Hicks sketch :p
shh he hasnt said god put the fossils there to test our faith yet....

If orginal sin is a myth then i wouldnt be able to sin at all...i would have no idea what sin was at all. So if there is no God then what are we here for. Just to live then die. Kinda meaninglessSo this god bloke created us as a sort of celestial Nation States game - created just to see if we'd work out well or not.
Seems to me that if such a being existed he's long forgotten the password.

God is Omniscient. Therefore time does not control him like it does us.
Great - he's got all the time in the universe and he still can't get us to do right. Come on - it's got to be a windup, surely.

God is a creaure of faith, so he would be made up of the beliefs of those who worship him.

shh he hasnt said god put the fossils there to test our faith yet....
YET! :)

And yeah Synira, if life is meaningless, is that such an incomprehensible idea?

If there were a god he'd be going insane with boredom as he's been around for eternity-theres nothing left to do, and he's bored to insanity.
That and his not being tied to time would explain what the ediacarans were all about - creative madness at the wrong end of history
.

YET! :)

And yeah Synira, if life is meaningless, is that such an incomprehensible idea?
ok then tell me Seratoath what are you living for. i mean if there is no God then we live for nothing. all the weatlh all the luxury that we obtain while we are living is all worthless it has no meaning.So what are we living for

ok then tell me Seratoath what are you living for. i mean if there is no God then we live for nothing. all the weatlh all the luxury that we obtain while we are living is all worthless it has no meaning.So what are we living for
I could put on some touching music and remark that I live for my family, my friends, my community or I could be a little more realistic and reflect on the fact that even without family, friends, community or for that matter god ; simple brutal instinct will compel me to exist for as long as I can, I will feel pangs of hunger that compel me to eat, thirst that will compel me to drink, pain that will compel me to seek treatment for wounds or illness' that may threaten my existance. Oh and seriously dude do you think the mass extinction of the dinosaurs in 65 million BC happened before or after the existance of Adam and Eve?

I am living for the betterment of my fellow man. Since the race is here anyway, we may as wel attempt to make the world in which we live a tolerable adn just place in which we can all exist, and a safe place for my offspring to grow and reproduce in, as my animal instinct would dictate.

This si the propogation of the species, and the instinct for survival, I'm alive because of a decisino by my parents and I'm living to improve the lot of those around me and my potential children.

That's what I'm living for. My life doesn't need a meaning from any source but my own rationality.

I could put on some touching music and remark that I live for my family, my friends, my community or I could be a little more realistic and reflect on the fact that even without family, friends, community or for that matter god ; simple brutal instinct will compel me to exist for as long as I can, I will feel pangs of hunger that compel me to eat, thirst that will compel me to drink, pain that will compel me to seek treatment for wounds or illness' that may threaten my existance. Oh and seriously dude do you think the mass extinction of the dinosaurs in 65 million BC happened before or after the existance of Adam and Eve?
Its nice to live for those things but what happens when you die...what happens to all that stuff...and would you believe me if i told you that i dont think the earth has even been around for 65 million years.

Although not a man of official religion myself, mainly for the fact that a higher power is used to often control people, one can use Milton's "Paradise Lost" as to answer why humans suffer and are tempted.

(For those that haven't read it: Milton discusses Lucifer's fall to Hell, how he let sin and death into the world to vengenance, and... basically: The Fortunate Fall, if there were no evil in the world, how would we know good. No sin, no virtue.)

To answer the original post: I'm not sure if I'd want a God, calling into question the free will of man. Let man be for today, and justice be forever.

I am living for the betterment of my fellow man. Since the race is here anyway, we may as wel attempt to make the world in which we live a tolerable adn just place in which we can all exist, and a safe place for my offspring to grow and reproduce in, as my animal instinct would dictate.

This si the propogation of the species, and the instinct for survival, I'm alive because of a decisino by my parents and I'm living to improve the lot of those around me and my potential children.

That's what I'm living for. My life doesn't need a meaning from any source but my own rationality.
ok since the race is here anyways...how did it get here..and what happens to all the family and friends and betterment of mankind...what happens to all that stuff when you die..better yet what happens to us

ok since the race is here anyways...how did it get here..and what happens to all the family and friends and betterment of mankind...what happens to all that stuff when you die..better yet what happens to us
Simple

Nothing

Just nothing

I dont need to make up a story just to make my life mean anything ... wishfull thinking of which there is no proof

we die.
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Its nice to live for those things but what happens when you die Everything that is meant by me when using the word "I" to refer to myself will cease to exist, I will be completely and utterly free from all craving, sensation , regret, totally beyond all suffering.and would you believe me if i told you that i dont think the earth has even been around for 65 million years.
Yes I certainly would believe that you think the world hasnt existed for over 65 million years. Lemme take a wild guess - you believe the world has existed since oh lemme see- around about 4004 BC?

on a mild side note about Adam and Eve, were did we all come from?

ok since the race is here anyways...how did it get here..and what happens to all the family and friends and betterment of mankind...what happens to all that stuff when you die..better yet what happens to us
Nothing happens to us. We are laid in the ground (hopefully) and gradually decompose, feeding other animals.
Same fate awaits all my family and friends, and all that exists around me.
What happens to the betterment of mankind? Hopefully it succeeds, and in my short time here I have hopefully been able to make a contribution to it.

How did the race get here? Our genes adapted from those of other, less developed animals to adapt to the shape of the world. It's claled reaction, and it happens when you hit your elbow off something and say "Ouch!" just on a molecular scale, no requirement for a divine power to initiate it.

Everything that is meant by me when using the word "I" to refer to myself will cease to exist, I will be completely and utterly free from all craving, sensation , regret, totally beyond all suffering
Yes I certainly would believe that you think the world hasnt existed for over 65 million years. Lemme take a wild guess - you believe the world has existed since oh lemme see- around about 4004 BC?


Lol I always love the age of the earth by bible stories

Silly

Simple concept preponderance of evidence

Lemme take a wild guess - you believe the world has existed since oh lemme see- around about 4004 BC?
Shock, horror!!! :)

Everything that is meant by me when using the word "I" to refer to myself will cease to exist, I will be completely and utterly free from all craving, sensation , regret, totally beyond all suffering
Yes I certainly would believe that you think the world hasnt existed for over 65 million years. Lemme take a wild guess - you believe the world has existed since oh lemme see- around about 4004 BC?
i find it hard myself to believe that once i die or when anyone dies that thats it we sleep forever.
and as a general answer id say that the earth has probably been around 5 to 6 thousand years

It's not sleeping for ever even. Consciousness simply ceased to function. The entire problem is consciousness...

Glad dolphins don't need a God... imagine the war that would spring from that.

Lol I always love the age of the earth by bible stories

Silly

Simple concept preponderance of evidence

Prove the age of the earth, indisputable evidence that the earth is over 5000 years old.

i find it hard myself to believe that once i die or when anyone dies that thats it we sleep forever.
and as a general answer id say that the earth has probably been around 5 to 6 thousand years

if i may, as i am really curious as to why you believe it to be so?

Prove the age of the earth, indisputable evidence that the earth is over 5000 years old.

Well carbon dating always helps....

It's not sleeping for ever even. Consciousness simply ceased to function. The entire problem is consciousness...

Glad dolphins don't need a God... imagine the war that would spring from that.
what so wed be vegatables lying in graves

It's not sleeping for ever even. Consciousness simply ceased to function. The entire problem is consciousness...

Glad dolphins don't need a God... imagine the war that would spring from that.

So you'd rather be vegatable?

Well carbon dating always helps....

Carbon dating helps me determine the age of the earth about as much as asking it.

if i may, as i am really curious as to why you believe it to be so?
As Kellarly said carbon dating

(would you like me to look up a source on how carbon dating works or do you think you can work google all by yourself)

Also focalized evidence … as well as carving into caves depicting scenes that only happened then. Really you people are way silly … at least I can respect the “god started the big bang” theory even if I don’t agree with it

i find it hard myself to believe that once i die or when anyone dies that thats it we sleep forever. No dude sleep is something living people do , dead people are unable to sleep on account of being......dead
and as a general answer id say that the earth has probably been around 5 to 6 thousand years
Wow what a lucky guess I had with 4004 BC then eh?
One thing if I could ask you again-- you have said in this thread that there was no death disease or famine in the world until the sin of Adam and Eve so I must ask you are you saying that a)the mass extinction of the dinosaurs happened after the creation and sinning of adam and eve or b)the mass extinction of the dinosaurs happened before the sinning of adam and eve and therefore there actually was death in the world prior to the sin of adam and eve?

I think the most accurate way to answer the original question is with another: What would life be like if there WASN'T a god?

My answer is simple. We wouldn't have any more worries. We would not feel any more pain. We would no longer bleed. Babies would no longer cry.

Life as we know it would be a lot different.

But why?

Because we wouldn't exist.

Carbon dating helps me determine the age of the earth about as much as asking it.

Not really, i mean you can get a reasonably accurate date from any piece of dinosaur bone etc to within a few thousand years. I mean we have so many different ways to prove its age.

Carbon Dating
The movement of Tectonic plates upon the earth
Fossil remains
Human remains from pre 10,000 years ago
etc etc etc

Carbon dating helps me determine the age of the earth about as much as asking it.
Ok I see your not going to get it without a really simple explanation


(here is the best I can do)
http://science.howstuffworks.com/carbon-14.htm

No dude sleep is something living people do , dead people are unable to sleep on account of being......dead
Wow what a lucky guess I had with 4004 BC then eh?
One thing if I could ask you again-- you have said in this thread that there was no death disease or famine in the world until the sin of Adam and Eve so I must ask you are you saying that a)the mass extinction of the dinosaurs happened after the creation and sinning of adam and eve or b)the mass extinction of the dinosaurs happened before the sinning of adam and eve and therefore there actually was death in the world prior to the sin of adam and eve?
Dinosaurs were extinct after the fall of man

Not really, i mean you can get a reasonably accurate date from any piece of dinosaur bone etc to within a few thousand years. I mean we have so many different ways to prove its age.

Carbon Dating
The movement of Tectonic plates upon the earth
Fossil remains
Human remains from pre 10,000 years ago
etc etc etc

Human remains from pre 10,000 years ago? How do you know how old they are? Or how old fossils are?

Circular arguements aren't worth turning around in.

Vegetables? what?

Vegetables are typically alive when they're in the ground. Humans become a hunk of inert being. A collection of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, and oxygen that gets reabsorbed according to the Laws of Thermodynamics.

Dinosaurs were extinct after the fall of man
and why was there no recording of these gian beasts? I mean they must have been quite a sight

Human remains from pre 10,000 years ago? How do you know how old they are? Or how old fossils are?

Circular arguements aren't worth turning around in.
Look at my link on carbon dating ... that starts to give you a clue (oh a link is the little thing with the http:// part in the begining)

and why was there no recording of these gian beasts? I mean they must have been quite a sight
just because they didnt exsists around the time of 65 million years ago doesnt mean that the fossils arent real.

Vegetables? what?

Vegetables are typically alive when they're in the ground. Humans become a hunk of inert being. A collection of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, and oxygen that gets reabsorbed according to the Laws of Thermodynamics.

And your being, that which makes you you?

Look at my link on carbon dating ... that starts to give you a clue (oh a link is the little thing with the http:// part in the begining)

I know what a link is, do you know what a circular arguement is?

Okay, this thread has gotten to a retarded argument on religion. Again probably. Face it, the both sides will never agree.

just because they didnt exsists around the time of 65 million years ago doesnt mean that the fossils arent real.
Let me get this strait you said dinosaurs became extinct AFTER the fall of man

But man made no recording of such beasts … anywhere

With something like that (a whole species of both prey and attackers) you figure someone would have said something … they do with any other major animal from elephant to lions

But no dinosaurs

Leads me to believe that they died before man was around

Human remains from pre 10,000 years ago? How do you know how old they are? Or how old fossils are?

Circular arguements aren't worth turning around in.

Ok, so most of mine rely on carbon dating, however, evidence from erosion of rock formations, the remenants of ice ages gone past etc etc are all teh evidence a person needs.

As to how old the fossils are, you simply, in many cases, look at the earth surounding the fossils. We know how long sedimentary rock takes to build up on the floor of the ocean, if you take a cross section and look at the various layers and you can calculate how long they have been around, i.e. millions of years.

I mean, what proof (solid basis of fact) do you have for the earth being only 5000 years old?

I know what a link is, do you know what a circular arguement is?
How is it circular (besides you continually debunking carbon dating witch I am sure you are defiantly in no position to do such)

Dinosaurs were extinct after the fall of man
Thanks for clearing that up if I could ask a few more questions ?
1) can I ask how this mass extinction(belived to be caused by a meteor impact in what is now the gulf of mexico) wiped out the Dinosaurs globally with a few exceptions(crocodiles etc) and yet somehow not only spared humanity- but apparently had so little effect on mankind that it isnt mentioned anywhere in the bible?
2)How were adam and eve able to exist in the garden of eden (a place without death famine or disease) and not kill hundreds of micro-organisms everytime they took a step?Or kill airborne microscopic life by walking into it//inhaling it?

Ok lets break this down cause people are getting confused

Earth older then 5k years (roughly)

Carbon dating
Lack of recording by man of some of the events that have taken place
Rock formation
Tectonic plate movement
Volcanic activity dating
Pictorial history of man
Major events
Migratory patterns
(I am sure I am missing a LOT)


Younger then 5k

Religious text study

Let me get this strait you said dinosaurs became extinct AFTER the fall of man

But man made no recording of such beasts … anywhere

With something like that (a whole species of both prey and attackers) you figure someone would have said something … they do with any other major animal from elephant to lions

But no dinosaurs

Leads me to believe that they died before man was around
then how do you explain the passages in the bible that talk about dinosaurs

Ok lets break this down cause people are getting confused

Earth older then 5k years (roughly)

Carbon dating
Lack of recording by man of some of the events that have taken place
Rock formation
Tectonic plate movement
Volcanic activity dating
Pictorial history of man
Major events
Migratory patterns
(I am sure I am missing a LOT)


Younger then 5k

Religious text study

yup that about covers it!

then how do you explain the passages in the bible that talk about dinosaurs

forgive me, i must have missed them. which book are they in?

then how do you explain the passages in the bible that talk about dinosaurs
Ohhhh I got to see this ... point some out ... (I not being an ass I really have not seen any )

Ok, so most of mine rely on carbon dating, however, evidence from erosion of rock formations, the remenants of ice ages gone past etc etc are all teh evidence a person needs.

As to how old the fossils are, you simply, in many cases, look at the earth surounding the fossils. We know how long sedimentary rock takes to build up on the floor of the ocean, if you take a cross section and look at the various layers and you can calculate how long they have been around, i.e. millions of years.

I mean, what proof (solid basis of fact) do you have for the earth being only 5000 years old?

I don't have proof any more than you do, because I cannot (nor can you) recreate the earth.

Also I have a whole wealth of knowledge about the so called "Great Flood" that covered the earth having it's effect on sedimentary rock formations and fossils and all sorts of stuff.

I don't have proof any more than you do, because I cannot (nor can you) recreate the earth.

Also I have a whole wealth of knowledge about the so called "Great Flood" that covered the earth having it's effect on sedimentary rock formations and fossils and all sorts of stuff.
Yikes if you are going into the Noah story we can debunk that pretty easy

Everything from ship size to capacity and the fact that there was some fairly decent floods but no world covering flood :)

Don’t pull out this tired old argument it usually leads to bad things for your side lol

Pointing a thing out which will probably invoke a riot. Perhaps the Bible isn't all truth? May it's a work of fiction taken out of context? And isn't all fiction based on fact somewhere?

I don't have proof any more than you do, because I cannot (nor can you) recreate the earth.

Also I have a whole wealth of knowledge about the so called "Great Flood" that covered the earth having it's effect on sedimentary rock formations and fossils and all sorts of stuff.

That would only be one flood though, not a great many different happenings that are shown in the formations.

Pointing a thing out which will probably invoke a riot. Perhaps the Bible isn't all truth? May it's a work of fiction taken out of context? And isn't all fiction based on fact somewhere?
With all the people that took a hand in writing it … the questionable basis to start with (not to mention that the old testament is particularly shaky because of the extended amount of time it was only oral history) the hands its changed … the languages it has been translated to and from (bastardized versions of some languages … specifically revelations) to Greek to old English in some cases (depends on what bible you use) and then just mis interpretation due to cultural context …

Would be silly to think otherwise

Thanks for clearing that up if I could ask a few more questions ?
1) can I ask how this mass extinction(belived to be caused by a meteor impact in what is now the gulf of mexico) wiped out the Dinosaurs globally with a few exceptions(crocodiles etc) and yet somehow not only spared humanity- but apparently had so little effect on mankind that it isnt mentioned anywhere in the bible?
2)How were adam and eve able to exist in the garden of eden (a place without death famine or disease) and not kill hundreds of micro-organisms everytime they took a step?Or kill airborne microscopic life by walking into it//inhaling it?
1) the flood has a lot of answers hidden in it.i mean look at it its against the laws of hydrodynamics to meander and cut at the same time so there for the grand canyon could have not been formed by a slow steady moving river it had to be formed by a massive flood.and explain to me how a tree can grow upside down in the ground without a flood.and a full grown mastadon with buttercups in its mouth.buttercups dont grow in frozen areas. so then is there not a possibility that the dinosaurs could have been wiped out with a flood instead of a meator.
2) thats just stupid question. God didnt create death but once we sinned what was the first thing that happened he kicked adam and eve out of the garden of eden.So therefore while they were in there, there was no worry about micro scopic organisms or whatever

That would only be one flood though, not a great many different happenings that are shown in the formations.
Exactly ... even assuming a flood it should be roughly one layer ... not the mass quantity of layers we see nowadays

Pointing a thing out which will probably invoke a riot. Perhaps the Bible isn't all truth? May it's a work of fiction taken out of context? And isn't all fiction based on fact somewhere?

IMHO, i can't believe that the bible is all truth, i mean why should it be? or more importantly how can it be? But its not the setting thats important, its the message that it gives across that is the necessary part.

2) thats just stupid question. God didnt create death but once we sinned what was the first thing that happened he kicked adam and eve out of the garden of eden.So therefore while they were in there, there was no worry about micro scopic organisms or whatever

don't you know that all life is interconnected, and we need microscopic organisms to survive (long term, that is)

God is a creaure of faith, so he would be made up of the beliefs of those who worship him.
Something of the chicken and the egg about this.

I know what a link is, do you know what a circular arguement is?

Apparently you don't. You're going to need to explain yourself. Potassium-Argon dating is much more fun than Carbon dating anyway.

Anyway, we can measure the distances between stars and other astronomical objects. We also know light travels at a finite speed. Hence, we know at his method alone that the universe is much older than a few thousand years.

Yikes if you are going into the Noah story we can debunk that pretty easy

Everything from ship size to capacity and the fact that there was some fairly decent floods but no world covering flood :)

Don’t pull out this tired old argument it usually leads to bad things for your side lol

A ship that big wasn't built, it was an ark (that means box).

Also, a full scale world flood is plausible and more proveable than the age of the earth.

1) the flood has a lot of answers hidden in it.i mean look at it its against the laws of hydrodynamics to meander and cut at the same time so there for the grand canyon could have not been formed by a slow steady moving river it had to be formed by a massive flood.and explain to me how a tree can grow upside down in the ground without a flood.and a full grown mastadon with buttercups in its mouth.buttercups dont grow in frozen areas. so then is there not a possibility that the dinosaurs could have been wiped out with a flood instead of a meator.
2) thats just stupid question. God didnt create death but once we sinned what was the first thing that happened he kicked adam and eve out of the garden of eden.So therefore while they were in there, there was no worry about micro scopic organisms or whatever
1) Then why does EVERY river meander and cut to some extent ... at a measurable pace today! (and assuming a world wide flood it would be UNDER WATER there would be no traveling path such as a river) cutting a path when completely inundated now that is against some physical laws ;)

I say find me a river that does not cut its way deeper (and redeposit silt on the down river) and I will defiantly be happy to call you a liar :)

As far as the mastodon was he not supposed to be in the boat? Or did Noah intentionally ignore gods two of every animal (cause then there should be some around)

... but what happens when you die...That's all, Folks! You're remembered if you're lucky, but that's it. Sorry if you can't cope with that idea, but we're here for a while, some of us try to be nice to people because it makes them nice to use - and some don't. After that - nothing.

A ship that big wasn't built, it was an ark (that means box).

Also, a full scale world flood is plausible and more proveable than the age of the earth.
No it is not ... and you wouldent believe it anyways ... proving it uses some of the same processes as determining the age of the eart

If you accepted the methods then you would have to accept the age conclusion

Edit:
ark Audio pronunciation of "ark" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärk)
n.

1. often Ark Bible. The chest containing the Ten Commandments written on stone tablets, carried by the Hebrews during their desert wanderings. Also called Ark of the Covenant.
2. often Ark Judaism. The Holy Ark.
3. Bible. The boat built by Noah for survival during the Flood.
4. Nautical. A large, commodious boat.
5. A shelter or refuge.

Look at 3

IMHO, i can't believe that the bible is all truth, i mean why should it be? or more importantly how can it be? But its not the setting thats important, its the message that it gives across that is the necessary part.

But i think the thing has been taken too literally and out of context.

ok since the race is here anyways...how did it get heres You weren't paying attention in biology lessons, were you.

on a mild side note about Adam and Eve, were did we all come from?Farnborough, Kent.

If God existed, I'd have to say.
It'd certainly limit the type of files I would download.:D

i find it hard myself to believe that once i die or when anyone dies that thats it we sleep forever.
Who said anythnig about sleep? It's not sleep - it's DEATH.
The other bit, about the world having only been around approx 6000 years doesn't deserve an answer - except possibly to ask if you've been reading too much Pratchett.

But i think the thing has been taken too literally and out of context.


Yeah, i can't make people believe otherwise, their choice of beliefs is there own. but i agree, i think you can take things far too literally, i mean, in one story the bible claims to have a talking donkey, (i believe its in job but i'll try and find the passage), so don't believe everything you read :)

Yeah, i can't make people believe otherwise, their choice of beliefs is there own. but i agree, i think you can take things far too literally, i mean, in one story the bible claims to have a talking donkey, (i believe its in job but i'll try and find the passage), so don't believe everything you read :)
Ehh most of thoes religious people dont read through or understand it themselfs ... that is what a priest is for

I wonder if they eat shellfish or wear clothing of two different fabrics ... sinners

Wow....I've not been here far ages and what a surprise...another stupid religion thread....

somethings never bloody change....

still at least there are no Nazi threads!

Prove the age of the earth, indisputable evidence that the earth is over 5000 years old.
Radioactive decay leading to certain decay products being trapped in measurable ratios in some rocks. That'd do for a start.

Oh, and of course,the Jews might be a tad cross that you doubt their chronology, which IIRC goes back more than 6000 years. (please note, that was not a serious argument, nor does it imply any credibility in their or any other faith)

Yeah, i can't make people believe otherwise, their choice of beliefs is there own. but i agree, i think you can take things far too literally, i mean, in one story the bible claims to have a talking donkey, (i believe its in job but i'll try and find the passage), so don't believe everything you read :)

Are you sure that wasn't Shrek?

Dinosaurs were extinct after the fall of manAnyone care to enlighten me as to what that meant? I can read the words, but can put no sense to it.

Are you sure that wasn't Shrek?

it was in there two, although i doubt the one in job (i think...) was voiced by eddie murphy...

Anyone care to enlighten me as to what that meant? I can read the words, but can put no sense to it.

Dinosaurs came both into existence and became extinct, after the creation of man and his fall into sin. that better for you?

Anyone care to enlighten me as to what that meant? I can read the words, but can put no sense to it.

It means: After A&E got kicked out, the dinos died.

then how do you explain the passages in the bible that talk about dinosaursHow do you explain the bit in a story I wrote about fairies when I was nine? Mine was fiction, and the lack of evidence of the existence of fairies is sufficient to convince me of that.

1) the flood has a lot of answers hidden in it.i mean look at it its against the laws of hydrodynamics
Your knowledge of science is confusing poor little me, if you could explain which of the "laws of hydrodynamics" you are referring to, and specify why those laws lead you to say
to meander and cut at the same time so there for the grand canyon could have not been formed by a slow steady moving river it had to be formed by a massive flood.and explain to me how a tree can grow upside down in the ground without a flood Now you have confused me again- if you could explain why the existance of floods (which is not in dispute) in any way points to there being a global flood of the kind mentioned in Genesis?.and a full grown mastadon with buttercups in its mouth.buttercups dont grow in frozen areas. Now my knowledge of prehistoric biology may not be as good as yours- but I believe Mastodons were able to walk- and hence could easily have spent time in areas that were not (at least permanently) frozen.so then is there not a possibility that the dinosaurs could have been wiped out with a flood instead of a meator.Apparently not if this meteor crater is anything to go by... http://web.ukonline.co.uk/a.buckley/chicx2.gif
I asked you how was it possible that Adam and Eve lived in the garden of eden without killing countless micro-organisms everytime they breathed or made any sort of movement- you replied...
2) thats just stupid question. God didnt create death but once we sinned what was the first thing that happened he kicked adam and eve out of the garden of eden.So therefore while they were in there, there was no worry about micro scopic organisms or whatever

I cant help but wonder why its a stupid question especially since without micro-organisms adam and eve would have been neckdeep in their own shit since there would have been no microorganisms to bring about the decomposition of there shit. Also neither Adam or Eve would have been able to digest food without microorganisms in the gut. Therefore I ask you again- how could there have been no death in the garden of eden?

Anyone care to enlighten me as to what that meant? I can read the words, but can put no sense to it.
He meant that dinosaurs died after Adam and Eve left the garden

Ehh most of thoes religious people dont read through or understand it themselfs ... that is what a priest is for

I wonder if they eat shellfish or wear clothing of two different fabrics ... sinners
Ah, that's the benefit of a loose-leaf bible, innit.

Dinosaurs came both into existence and became extinct, after the creation of man and his fall into sin. that better for you?Well, apart from being complete cobblers, at least it's in English.

Ah, that's the benefit of a loose-leaf bible, innit.
Yup tear out the parts that you dont like ;)

i mean look at it its against the laws of hydrodynamics to meander and cut at the same time so there for the grand canyon could have not been formed by a slow steady moving river it had to be formed by a massive flood.
Ah, you see, the trouble is you're labouring under the misapprehension that it's only had a few thousand years to do it. Indeed, that sort of geology, and the immense time spans needed to bring it about are a prime example of how we are sure that the world's been around rather longer than you think.

Your knowledge of science is confusing poor little me, if you could explain which of the "laws of hydrodynamics" you are referring to, and specify why those laws lead you to say
. Now you have confused me again- if you could explain why the existance of floods (which is not in dispute) in any way points to there being a global flood of the kind mentioned in Genesis?. Now my knowledge of prehistoric biology may not be as good as yours- but I believe Mastodons were able to walk- and hence could easily have spent time in areas that were not (at least permanently) frozen.Apparently not if this meteor crater is anything to go by... http://web.ukonline.co.uk/a.buckley/chicx2.gif
I asked you how was it possible that Adam and Eve lived in the garden of eden without killing countless micro-organisms everytime they breathed or made any sort of movement- you replied...


I cant help but wonder why its a stupid question especially since without micro-organisms adam and eve would have been neckdeep in their own shit since there would have been no microorganisms to bring about the decomposition of there shit. Also neither Adam or Eve would have been able to digest food without microorganisms in the gut. Therefore I ask you again- how could there have been no death in the garden of eden?
well think of it this way when someone is created perfectly then there is no need for that.

Ahh its no use arguing

They can’t use the scientific method

Proving religion through such is not possible (starting with a conclusion and only accepting evidence that proves it) rather then the other way around :) (which is what we are arguing with) so there is an inherent problem mixing the two

well think of it this way when someone is created perfectly then there is no need for that.
Its not a matter of the person ... the ENVYROMENT couldent handle it not and be stable in any sort of long term way

nor could people do things like ... digest ... without micro orginisims

Silly

well think of it this way when someone is created perfectly then there is no need for that.
No need for what? You to answer any of my points?

No it is not ... and you wouldent believe it anyways ... proving it uses some of the same processes as determining the age of the eart

If you accepted the methods then you would have to accept the age conclusion

Edit:
ark Audio pronunciation of "ark" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärk)
n.

1. often Ark Bible. The chest containing the Ten Commandments written on stone tablets, carried by the Hebrews during their desert wanderings. Also called Ark of the Covenant.
2. often Ark Judaism. The Holy Ark.
3. Bible. The boat built by Noah for survival during the Flood.
4. Nautical. A large, commodious boat.
5. A shelter or refuge.

Look at 3


Ark is the word for box, we think a floating box means boat. Bad english definition.

nor could people do things like ... digest ... without micro orginisims

Silly
Thanks for remaking one of my points for me, I am sure hes paying much more attention now.

Ark is the word for box, we think a floating box means boat. Bad english definition.
Um boxes don’t float upright in water (the spin) why exactly did god have them build three levels?
Deit
oh yeah and boat really is anything that can float in watter ... so a floating box is still a boat) irregardless of the fact that if it was not a standard type boat with a beam and keel it would have been even more rediculous (the dementions of the ark as the bible says are about 15 percent bigger then we can make a wood boat of any sort without steel re inforcing ... which they did not have)

Thanks for remaking one of my points for me, I am sure hes paying much more attention now.
Thought maybe an emphasis of one of the uses might help (probably not)

Now just hold on a minute, you do realise that this thread is very offensive to a large amount of people, myself included. In future i recommend you keep threads away from religious denial, please. Personally i believe there already is one God, and i'm not trying to force that opinion on anyone else, but just try keeping away from insulting other peoples' religions please.

Now just hold on a minute, you do realise that this thread is very offensive to a large amount of people, myself included. In future i recommend you keep threads away from religious denial, please. Personally i believe there already is one God, and i'm not trying to force that opinion on anyone else, but just try keeping away from insulting other peoples' religions please.
What if I find it offensive to think that there is a god ? how dare you tread on my rights when you want me to leave off of yours

What if my religion was telling the truth about other religions?

I find it offensive

edit: oh yeah if you cant handle your faith tested... a shallow faith it is indeed

nobody is making you read it. if you get offended, close the browser.

Right mate, one bloody step too far. I did say that i was not trying to force my religion on anyone, and was not preaching about my religion in any way. What you've just done is directly insulted me and believe you me, count yourself damn lucky i don't know who you are! :mad: :upyours:

, count yourself damn lucky i don't know who you are! :mad: :upyours:
Cos if you did know who he was you would turn the other cheek and forgive him?
Incidentally how exactly is he insulting your religon?

Um boxes don’t float upright in water (the spin) why exactly did god have them build three levels?
Deit
oh yeah and boat really is anything that can float in watter ... so a floating box is still a boat) irregardless of the fact that if it was not a standard type boat with a beam and keel it would have been even more rediculous (the dementions of the ark as the bible says are about 15 percent bigger then we can make a wood boat of any sort without steel re inforcing ... which they did not have)

Boxes come in differen't shapes genius of geometry. A box fitting the description of the ark would float.

Since people did not understand the difference between "ark" and "boat" when translating ancient Hebrew text it was misinterpreted. It happens. It still says ark and ark still means box no matter what the english language calls an ark it's still a box.

Read the description in Genesis.. it's a box.

Now just hold on a minute, you do realise that this thread is very offensive to a large amount of people, myself included. In future i recommend you keep threads away from religious denial, please. Personally i believe there already is one God, and i'm not trying to force that opinion on anyone else, but just try keeping away from insulting other peoples' religions please.

Don't be offended if they don't believe. If people insult people's religion - tough.

People insult my God all the time, but my God is bigger than their insults.

How do you explain the bit in a story I wrote about fairies when I was nine? Mine was fiction, and the lack of evidence of the existence of fairies is sufficient to convince me of that.

It's fake. It has no support.

The bible is real. It has support.

Are you going to address my post? Or is your God trembling in fear?

It's fake. It has no support.

The bible is real. It has support.

Not from me it doesn't.

I've never seen anything convincing that supports anything other than some historical aspects on the Bible - things like the existence of Egypt and the like. There's nothing that supports its claim to be the word of a god.

<Loose-leaf bible>
Yup tear out the parts that you dont like ;)
But oddly, believers can't see how this removes any credibility in their faith.

We can all see through it, but in their eyes, their emperor still has new clothes.