NationStates Jolt Archive

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?
2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?
3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?

Well, I personally find the concept of Hell stupid and rediclious but no, an aborted baby wouldn't go there because they never sinned and never rejected God or accepted Satan as their savior.

They go to the Tasty Chinese Buffet.

Exactly what La Terra di Liberta said. :rolleyes:

Well, I personally find the concept of Hell stupid and rediclious but no, an aborted baby wouldn't go there because they never sinned and never rejected God or accepted Satan as their savior.
original sin?

Well, I personally find the concept of Hell stupid and rediclious but no, an aborted baby wouldn't go there because they never sinned and never rejected God or accepted Satan as their savior.

But according to the Inferno all those born before jesus are in hell.

By "the Church," I'm assuming you mean the Catholic Church. My theology is a little fuzzy here (and I think the Church has had vague theology on it for a while, too), but from my understanding, aborted babies make a brief stop in Purgatory to cleanse them of their original sin (which we all have) and then they go to Heaven.

The reason the theology is fuzzy is because it's always been Christian theology that baptism cleans you of original sin, and if you don't get baptized, then you have that sin, which means you should go at least to Purgatory, if not to Hell. But then you get the question of guilt, intent, etc. It's complicated. My personal belief is that aborted babies go through enough suffering in their death that they are either martyrs and ascent immidiately to Heaven, or their deaths are suffering enough to spare them from Purgatory.

original sin?


Yes, I know but still, humans that go to heaven sin don't they or else we're all screwed.

original sin?

As fetus' they would go to the front of the line as they have not reached the age of reason. They do not have original sin as they had not been born yet. If new borns die, they travel to purgatory, where they are later let into heaven.

But according to the Inferno all those born before jesus are in hell.




Well are we talking abouty babies aborted now or 3 000 years ago?

Well there is that whole origional sin thing I think...

1)There is no hell, as far as anyone can tell.
2)Aborted FETUSES are usually before the point where the have a functioning nervous system, hence they have no consiousness


original sin?
...makes no sense. Why punsh the offspring of a person for somethign their parents did? Once again, the church uses fear to goad people into doing what it says.

But according to the Inferno all those born before jesus are in hell.
As well versed in Catholic theology Dante was, La Divinia Commedia isn't Church doctrine.

Hmmmm... Fetuses aside - Look at how non-baptized babies were treated in the past. In medieval times (when Catholicism ruled Europe, so to speak), non-baptized babies that died were not permitted to be buried in consecrated ground, if you took a strict interpretation of the rules. Many priests quietly ignored that rule, of course.

But if the orthodox Catholics of the time wouldn't permit an unbaptized baby to be buried in consecrated ground, I doubt they believed that child had a chance of getting into heaven.

But according to the Inferno all those born before jesus are in hell.

No not true. Before Christ, those souls who were good go to heaven. If they led an honest, moral life they'd be in heaven.

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?
2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?
3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?
By Church I assume you mean the Catholic Church. Aborted babies would go to the same places as those who commited good lives but were unable to be Catholic go (the Virtuous Pagan), Limbo

Hmmmm... Fetuses aside - Look at how non-baptized babies were treated in the past. In medieval times (when Catholicism ruled Europe, so to speak), non-baptized babies that died were not permitted to be buried in consecrated ground, if you took a strict interpretation of the rules. Many priests quietly ignored that rule, of course.

But if the orthodox Catholics of the time wouldn't permit an unbaptized baby to be buried in consecrated ground, I doubt they believed that child had a chance of getting into heaven.



They also told people they could pay their relatives way out of purgatory, so they could get more money.

By Church I assume you mean the Catholic Church. Aborted babies would go to the same places as those who commited good lives but were unable to be Catholic go (the Virtuous Pagan), Limbo
Is Limbo still in modern theology? I thought they corrected that after Vatican II.

1)There is no hell, as far as anyone can tell.
2)Aborted FETUSES are usually before the point where the have a functioning nervous system, hence they have no consiousness



...makes no sense. Why punsh the offspring of a person for somethign their parents did? Once again, the church uses fear to goad people into doing what it says.

You don't get original sin from your parents. You get it from Adam and Eve.

If new borns die, they travel to purgatory, where they are later let into heaven.



You catholic?

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?
2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?
3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?

All aborted babies go to hell for the exact reason you have given above. It makes abortion that much worse. And to anwer your last question: Abortion is messed up!

But according to the Inferno all those born before jesus are in hell.
You must have missed the first part then. Or are taking literally.

They travel through Limbo (which admittedly is the first circle of Hell, but it is unlike Hell in every respect [except for being outside of God's presence])

They also told people they could pay their relatives way out of purgatory, so they could get more money.

Yes. What's your point?

Is Limbo still in modern theology? I thought they corrected that after Vatican II.
No idea. But My mother was taught that all unbaptised babies go to Limbo, even after Vat. II.

Don't know the modern doctrine. All I was taught was "Aborion Baaaaaad!"

According to the Catholic Church, unbaptized babies, and therefore aborted foetuses by extension, go to limbo and spend an eternity there.

Yes. What's your point?



Just saying, they said alot of things that may or may not have been true.

According to the Catholic Church, unbaptized babies, and therefore aborted foetuses by extension, go to limbo and spend an eternity there.
Even after Vat. II?

You must have missed the first part then. Or are taking literally.

They travel through Limbo (which admittedly is the first circle of Hell, but it is unlike Hell in every respect [except for being outside of God's presence])

No, I read the whole thing. Limbo is the first part of hell as you said. It isn't as awful as the lower rings but it still kind of sucks. Like being stuck in line at the DMV for all eternity.

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?
2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?
3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?

first of all.... the Catholic Church has the concept of purgatory, and you can through prayer raise someone from that state to heaven, especially the innocent. According to Christian traditons, when Jesus died, he went to hell and freed all who were supposed to be in either heaven or purgatory and sent them to their appointed places (not hell in other words)

by definition an unborn child is innocent, whether it consists of a single fertilized cell at the moment of conception up to the its trip through the birth canal... so therefore they are not bound to hell according to Christian belief.

so your logic chain doesn't work in this case

Protestant Churches generally either believe children too young to understand the concept of salvation go to heaven by default (as not all practice baptism for example) or some believe in predestination, so it doesn't really matter anyway as only the select go to heaven (and some of those sects believe the select is a very small number)

can't speak about the Coptic or Orthodox churches, but I feel comfortable assuming they would tend toward the Catholic tradition on this...

im sure it depends on the beliefs of each particular denomination.

traditionally, the fetus wasnt considered to have a soul until it "quickened". the point at about 4 months when the mother can feel the baby moving. (although i could feel my baby moving at 2 months so go figure)

under that scenario, a first trimester abortion kills a souless potential. the same as the many millions of fertilized eggs that never implant in the woman's uterus or who die "naturally" before she even realizes she is pregnant. this theologically recognizes that god would not allow the creation of massive numbers of damned souls.

those fetuses that are aborted after 4 months are the same as a miscarried baby in the eyes of the church. if the child is not baptised, then it goes to "limbo", a non tormented state outside the presense of god.

these "rules" may have changed in the light of scientific/medical advances and in the bitterness of the fight against abortion.

Just saying, they said alot of things that may or may not have been true.
That seems to be a bit of a non starter. You could apply that to someone who is always truthful

No, I read the whole thing. Limbo is the first part of hell as you said. It isn't as awful as the lower rings but it still kind of sucks. Like being stuck in line at the DMV for all eternity.
It has been a while since I read it, but isn't limbo quite a nice place. Dante make the comment he wouldn't mind staying there (what with all the philosopher etc there) since it seems to be a paradise, but not in the presence of God rather then stasis where you remain for all eternity (which is more like the denixins in Cocytus who are frozen in ice)

Just saying, they said alot of things that may or may not have been true.

But the whole concept of heaven and hell was introduced by the Catholic church (unless you want to stretch way back and start comparing Christian heaven and hell to the Babylonian versions).

Heaven and hell may or may not exist, but theoretically, the Catholic church is the rule arbiter.

Besides, from their (original) perspective, praying a soul out of limbo was essentially leveraging God to accept them. Money for those services came later in Catholic history, as the church became more and more corrupted by greedy politician/priests.

It has been a while since I read it, but isn't limbo quite a nice place. Dante make the comment he wouldn't mind staying there (what with all the philosopher etc there) since it seems to be a paradise, but not in the presence of God rather then stasis where you remain for all eternity (which is more like the denixins in Cocytus who are frozen in ice)

Limbo was always presented to me as a sort of vague, grey place of endless waiting. But who am I to argue with Dante? :)

Well, if you're a denomination other than Catholic, Baptism isn't necessary. Even Baptists don't view Baptism as necessary for salvation. Anabaptists yes, Baptists no . . . yay, denominations are fun :D

I think you all need to have your head examined. First of all if a baby is aborted before it is born it has no original sin, and who is to say that it is considered a human yet. Secondly, If it is then its destiny is in Gods hands and there is no point in trying to explain what happens to the baby. Gods knows and that is all that matters. If the baby was aborted then God must have wanted it back in heaven. Let God make the desicions and stop arguing.

I think you all need to have your head examined. First of all if a baby is aborted before it is born it has no original sin, and who is to say that it is considered a human yet. Secondly, If it is then its destiny is in Gods hands and there is no point in trying to explain what happens to the baby. Gods knows and that is all that matters. If the baby was aborted then God must have wanted it back in heaven. Let God make the desicions and stop arguing.
But its fun

Even after Vat. II?
Yes, hence the rush in Catholic countries to have babies with dangerous illnesses at birth to be baptised immediately, even to the current day.

Yes, hence the rush in Catholic countries to have babies with dangerous illnesses at birth to be baptised immediately, even to the current day.
But is that actual church dogma, or just old beliefs dying hard?

Oh Jesus Hitler Christ (www.jesusishitler.com). How the hell did this conversation come about? Why does it matter? Religion is the crutch of the weak. :D

Look if you want to bash religion then do it somewhere else or you will be reported to the mods, and just so you know your website host has suspended your site due to it's content. And I suggest you get a religion and some morales unless you wish to live a horrible afterlife in hell.

But according to the Inferno all those born before jesus are in hell.

The Inferno is not equivalent to the present doctrine of the church. It is also not the Bible.

Can someone please explain to me all this limbo stuff and purgatory.

The Inferno is not equivalent to the present doctrine of the church. It is also not the Bible.
The bible is too boring to read which is why I quote the inferno. Are you saying that according to present church doctrine people born before 33 AD or whenever jesus was crucified aren't in hell (according to the chruch)?

I think you all need to have your head examined. First of all if a baby is aborted before it is born it has no original sin, and who is to say that it is considered a human yet. Secondly, If it is then its destiny is in Gods hands and there is no point in trying to explain what happens to the baby. Gods knows and that is all that matters. If the baby was aborted then God must have wanted it back in heaven. Let God make the desicions and stop arguing.

religious people like to figure out these things.

it relates to when a wanted pregnancy goes bad. if it happens early, then its a miscarriage (or even a spontaneous abortion) and you are sad but its recognized that you lost a pregnancy not a baby. if it happens LATE, say in the last week before the baby would have been born, you have a still birth and your baby is given last rites and buried as any human being.

somewhere between the 2 is a dividing line eh? on one side is a fetus, on the other is a baby. the baby has a soul, the fetus doesnt. your religious beliefs dictate just where that line is. to a believer it is a very important question.

Can someone please explain to me all this limbo stuff and purgatory.
In Catholic Dogma one goes to Purgatory before heaven since you need to work off your sins before you are pure enough to get into heaven and God's presence.

Limbo, whilst technically in Hell (according to Dante anyway), is were souls go if they have led good lives but have not been baptised (including stillborn babies, infants thats die shortly after birth, or people born in places where they have not had the chance to be baptised).

Can someone please explain to me all this limbo stuff and purgatory.
oh just look it up in the catholic encyclopedia online

its all got great explanations from the ages of big thinkers in the church. not to worry, it all has biblical justifications even if they arent mentioned by name in the bible.

The bible is too boring to read which is why I quote the inferno. Are you saying that according to present church doctrine people born before 33 AD or whenever jesus was crucified aren't in hell (according to the chruch)?
The thing about the Inferno is, it is doubtful that Dante, let along contempories, really believed in that. It is an allergory rahter then a rendering of the after life.

And the present church doesn't think that everyone before Christ went and stayed in Hell

According to Christian belief "we are all born sinners", and "any soul unsaved will go to hell". Catholicism preached that unbabtized babies will go to hell.

Buddhist stories also speak of children in hades; where the "Jizo Bodhisattva" is popularly known as the guardian of unborn, aborted, miscarried, and stillborn babies.

He stands before the kings of hell with a piligrim staff and a disc with the sun surrounded by the ten kings of hell with a script reading; "He who delivers from the torments of hell."

There is a Christian tale (not in the bible) where Jesus decended into hell to rescue children in the same way.

The bible is too boring to read which is why I quote the inferno. Are you saying that according to present church doctrine people born before 33 AD or whenever jesus was crucified aren't in hell (according to the chruch)?


Look, all I am saying is that while it is a fine piece of literature, The Inferno is not recognised as part of Christian doctrine. It is an amazing poem based on the beliefs at Dante's time.

The doctrine of the Catholic Church and the other various branches of Christianity have changed many times over the years; you would be better off using the Bible and/or a modern version of the Catechism if you wish to quote sources.

The bible is too boring to read which is why I quote the inferno. Are you saying that according to present church doctrine people born before 33 AD or whenever jesus was crucified aren't in hell (according to the chruch)?
dont make me quote the apostle's creed to you!

jesus decended into hell to redeem the souls of the good people who had died before him. he redeemed not only future generations but past ones too.

Thank you Conceptualists! Well I'm guessin using that logic the baby would go to limbo. As far as the other protestant denomanitions of christianity the murdered child would go to heaven. I have been taught that a child will go to heaven if killed until they understand the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, and comphrehend salvation through Jesus Christ. I have also been taught that a fetus is the same as a child so I would infer that they are treated the same as far as hell and heaven go.

religious people like to figure out these things.

it relates to when a wanted pregnancy goes bad. if it happens early, then its a miscarriage (or even a spontaneous abortion) and you are sad but its recognized that you lost a pregnancy not a baby. if it happens LATE, say in the last week before the baby would have been born, you have a still birth and your baby is given last rites and buried as any human being.

somewhere between the 2 is a dividing line eh? on one side is a fetus, on the other is a baby. the baby has a soul, the fetus doesnt. your religious beliefs dictate just where that line is. to a believer it is a very important question.

If you are trying to accuse me of not being religous you are vastly mistaken. My uncle is a preacher and we are very high up in the Episcopal Church. Please do not accuse people of not having a religion until you know the person. And whether you are religous or not this topic is stupid. Let God make the desicions. It is that simple. If he wanted you to know what happened to thing fetus/baby whatever you consider it, he would have had it written down.

If you are trying to accuse me of not being religous you are vastly mistaken. My uncle is a preacher and we are very high up in the Episcopal Church. Please do not accuse people of not having a religion until you know the person. And whether you are religous or not this topic is stupid. Let God make the desicions. It is that simple. If he wanted you to know what happened to thing fetus/baby whatever you consider it, he would have had it written down.
while i dont see what your uncle has to do with your faith, i certainly wasnt accusing you of anything.

i was attempting to explain why it is important to some people to know just when a baby is a baby.

if you are in a denomination that practices infant baptism, for example, it would be very important to you to know if you should baptise the baby you are aborting so that it may go to heaven.

im pretty sure that if you asked your uncle, he would have an exact answer to the question originally posed.

No not true. Before Christ, those souls who were good go to heaven. If they led an honest, moral life they'd be in heaven.

Soviet Narco State's post said, "But according to the Inferno all those born before jesus are in hell."

I don't know squat about Catholic Church doctrine or dogma, but I do know Dante's Inferno and Soviet Narco State is correct. In The Inferno (Canto IV) the unbaptized were consigned to the first circle of hell.

"If they have merit, it can't suffice without
Baptism, portal to the faith you maintain.

Some lived before the Christian faith, so that
They did not worship God aright - and I
Am one of these. Through this, no other fault,

We are lost...."

I love that poem, though not so much Purgatory and Heaven. Hell is just more interesting. It's the same with Milton - Paradise Lost is great, Paradise Found, not so great.

Yes, hence the rush in Catholic countries to have babies with dangerous illnesses at birth to be baptised immediately, even to the current day.

That may be true, but its not doctine anymore. speaking as an atheist who attends a catholic school, in my heology class i was taught that God wouldnt damn a child whose parents were negligent to get him or her baptised ... baptism isnt necerssary for salvation necessarily becuase you can get baptised through desire ie being a good person and seeking truth. that is how the dalai lama for instance could go to heaven. therefore, babies who didnt do anything couldnt go to hell

If your religion believes that an embryo/fetus/zygote has a soul and goes to heaven, then there is a serious moral issue you must consider.

If you truly love the life you have conceived, you have some responsibility to see that it spends eternity in paradise.

If you abort your fetus, you ensure that its soul lives forever in paradise.
If you do not abort, you run a substantial risk of the soul going to hell.

It is insane to claim that there is some importance to life on earth that outweighs the risks involved to the fetus' soul.

Life is something like 80 years, eternity is 80,000,000,000,000,000,000 years, and then that many more a billion times.

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?
2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?
3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?
Dante's Inferno was written a long time ago as you may know. You see there is something called "baptism by blood" that the Catholic Church has recognized. All aborted fetuses are considered baptized by blood, and are immediately sent into heaven.

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?
2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?
3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?

Well, I am what you might call a non-denominational Protestant and here's what I believe concerning these issues (and a few others that have been brought up in this thread.
1) I believe a soul is created at conception
2) Baptism is not a requirement to got to Heaven. It is a ceremonial washing and public announcement of your faith
3) fetuses/fertilized eggs/small children who die don't go to hell. There must be some understanding of the Law (God's Law) before jugment can be made. So I guess this includes the mentally handicapped, etc.

Concerning other issues brought up in this thread:
- I don't believe in Limbo. There's Heaven and there's Hell. No other place is mentioned in the Bible.
- Those who died before Christ went to Heaven because they had faith and looked forward to the coming Messiah and lived that faith.
- Nowhere in the Bible does it say Jesus descended into Hell. On the cross he said "It is finished". So if "It is finished" then what else is there to do but take his seat at the right hand of the Father?

The babies wouldn't go to hell because they had no choice of what happened to them. The parents invloved with the abortion would go to hell.

Dante's Inferno was written a long time ago as you may know. You see there is something called "baptism by blood" that the Catholic Church has recognized. All aborted fetuses are considered baptized by blood, and are immediately sent into heaven.

Like I said, I don't know squat about Catholic doctrine, however, I have my doubts about this "baptism of blood." The opinion of Mario Derksen, of Catholic Insight:

The Limbo of Infants is the traditional opinion of the Church, and it originated with the thought of St. Augustine. It's not a doctrine; you're not required to believe it as a Catholic. We speculate about this. We simply don't know, but Limbo makes a lot of sense. Ott says: "Theologians usually assume [--note the careful language--] that there is a special place or state for children dying without baptism which they call limbus puerorum (children's Limbo)" (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, p. 114). Also, Scripture seems to support this view somewhat: if we look at Mark 16:16, we find that in the case of unbaptized infants who die, neither Heaven nor hell fits. Read Mark 16:16 and you'll understand. Therefore, Limbo is a reasonable solution, though it may not be true.

Also, concerning baptism:

I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. (Ezekiel 36:24-28)

http://www.cathinsight.com/apologetics/infant.htm

I belive that aborted babies dont go to hell, because they never had the chance to be baptized.

I belive that aborted babies dont go to hell, because they never had the chance to be baptized.

That is precisely why the Church has traditionally consigned them to Limbo.

That is precisely why the Church has traditionally consigned them to Limbo.

Explain Limbo. Specifically, where is it defined in the Bible? I don't believe there is such a thing. It was made up by man to explain something they didn't or refused to understand. Ditto purgatory.

Explain Limbo. Specifically, where is it defined in the Bible? I don't believe there is such a thing. It was made up by man to explain something they didn't or refused to understand. Ditto purgatory.


It was made up by man, just as Heaven, Hell, God, and the Devil were.

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?

Yes.

2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?

Yes.

3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

Yes.

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?

Yes. But that is part of why Jesus decided to take a tour down there: To give everyone who lived before him a chance to go to Heaven. This includes people who live after him and have no way of knowing about him, such as aborted children.

Nobody Goes To Hell.

Nobody Goes To Heaven.

We Die.

Our Souls Go On Vacation And Our Conscience Goes Wherever It Wants.

It wouldn't make sense. God is loving and would never damn an innocent, and a baby which has never had a chance to exercise free will or commit sin, ect. wouldn't count. Personally, I don't feel that you need to be baptized to be saved, anyway. It's about faith, not about a church ritual.
Regardless, abortion is still wrong. I wouldn't ban it because it would be more wrong to, say, force a drugged-up street hooker to have a child. I don't feel sorry for the prostitute, but I would for the child being brought into the world as a drug baby to a bad mother, and we all know that people like that will keep sleeping around, which is why I say keep abortion, but it's still wrong.

My church doesn't baptize children until they are at least 8 years old, and believes the atonement of Jesus Christ automatically saves all those that die before the age of accountability (Eight years of age).

So, I say no. aborted babies are saved, and certainly don’t go to hell.

It wouldn't make sense. God is loving and would never damn an innocent, and a baby which has never had a chance to exercise free will or commit sin, ect. wouldn't count. Personally, I don't feel that you need to be baptized to be saved, anyway. It's about faith, not about a church ritual.
Regardless, abortion is still wrong. I wouldn't ban it because it would be more wrong to, say, force a drugged-up street hooker to have a child. I don't feel sorry for the prostitute, but I would for the child being brought into the world as a drug baby to a bad mother, and we all know that people like that will keep sleeping around, which is why I say keep abortion, but it's still wrong.

God also sent an angel of death to smite the first born sons of Egypt. Many of them must have been newborn babies. It sees to me that according to the old testament God didn't cut unbaptized babies no slack. Why do you people have to make your religions all warm and fuzzy? God is meant to be feared!

who is to say that it is considered a human yet.Ok, First of all, at no point is human fetus not a human. It starts with a human sperm and a human egg, then becomes a human fetus after conception, until it is born as a human baby. It doesn't magically change species; it's always human (if it started as a null species and became human, it could be argued that it could become any species).

Let God make the desicions and stop arguing.That's one of the most intelligent things I've read in this thread (not that I necessarily believe in God, but I think it's sound advice nonetheless).

Until God/Allah/Buddha/Krashnu/Tooth Fairy/whoever comes and interprets it for us all, I don't see any point in arguing how he/she/it really feels about the matter.... I for one hate it when people try and argue my case and my intentions... especially when they develop polar opposite ideas.

I can't see why God/etc would feel much different...

Explain Limbo. Specifically, where is it defined in the Bible? I don't believe there is such a thing. It was made up by man to explain something they didn't or refused to understand. Ditto purgatory.
Purgatory comes from a line in the new testement where Jesus instructs people to pray for the dead. Now there is no point praying for people in either hell or heave since thy are there for eternity. Therefore it was rationalised there must be another, temporary place for sould to go to

1) Doesn't the Church consider Fetuses to have a soul?
2) Don't all nonbaptized people go to helll?
3) If 1 and 2 are true than wouldn't all aborted fetuses go to hell?

If this is true isn't that kind of messed up?

reminds me that i still have to get myself unbaptized...

reminds me that i still have to get myself unbaptized...

Can you actually do that?

Wow, I cna't WAIT to get unbaptized!!!! :p

OK,so basically we have established that..........it's ALL RELATIVE!

The various Christian churches have various different beliefs on the issue of baptizing, and on the issue of accountability, original sin, predestination, the nature of the soul etc.....

So to properly answer the original question:

It depends on what religion the baby is.

No not true. Before Christ, those souls who were good go to heaven. If they led an honest, moral life they'd be in heaven.
Then why did he have to come along and ruin it for the rest of us?

Ok, First of all, at no point is human fetus not a human. It starts with a human sperm and a human egg, then becomes a human fetus after conception, until it is born as a human baby. It doesn't magically change species; it's always human (if it started as a null species and became human, it could be argued that it could become any species).

That's one of the most intelligent things I've read in this thread (not that I necessarily believe in God, but I think it's sound advice nonetheless).

Until God/Allah/Buddha/Krashnu/Tooth Fairy/whoever comes and interprets it for us all, I don't see any point in arguing how he/she/it really feels about the matter.... I for one hate it when people try and argue my case and my intentions... especially when they develop polar opposite ideas.

I can't see why God/etc would feel much different...I agree. Let God judge where people go after they die. For as the bible says, "Let not judge others unless others judge unto you." Now the point of that saying means don't condemm others with punishments if you can't do anything about it. But in this case I think it should mean, let God make the choice, because every choice he makes is the right one.

Though infant salvation is not explicitly taught in the Bible, it is safe to say infant salvation as an implicit certainty. Yes there infants are born sinful, however, there are different categories of sin. One is personal sin, an act of willful disobedience. Another category is inhereited sin, passed down from generation to generation. The last one is imputed sin, the sin passed from Adam to each individual. Ultimately, if not reconciled, personal sin and inhereited sin lead to eternal death, but imputed sin leads only to physical death. Infants have not yet reached the age of accountablilty, when they fully understand the decisons they make, and so they can not knowingly commit inhereited or personal sin.