NationStates Jolt Archive

Jump in, the water's fine :D

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138595,00.html

THE HAGUE, Netherlands — The Dutch government is considering new laws to empower anti-terrorism investigators to detain suspects without evidence that they may have committed a crime, the justice minister told The Associated Press on Monday.

Jump in, the water's fine :D

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138595,00.html

I hardly think that qualifies as "facism." However, it does drive home the point that it's not just the US with which the Islamists have a problem, it's anyone who doesn't agree with them.

Yeah, Holland has become a fascist state. Please. :rolleyes:

Bah, there's tons of threads with hyperboles, ignorance, misquotes, and outright outrageous lies. I'm just trying to fit in. :fluffle: ;)

Bah, there's tons of threads with hyperboles, ignorance, misquotes, and outright outrageous lies. I'm just trying to fit in. :fluffle: ;)

Ah, well in that case, we forgive you. :D

Considering this is comming from FOX news....... :rolleyes:

Considering this is comming from FOX news....... :rolleyes:
And thus automatically false

[/sarcasm]

It's about bloody time. It was long overdue. :)

And thus automatically false

[/sarcasm]
No, just worded to support the Right Wing. Propaganda

Reading the title of this thread, I was expecting the 'fascism' in question to be Islamofascism, which is the only type of fascism with which the Netherlands has a problem. I can't see how the government formulating a sensible and reserved response to the growing problem of jihad bloodlust qualifies.

Murdering a film director and vowing to murder a female African immigrant MP, for drawing attention to atrocities, is apparently far less controversial than democratic measures to bring Islamofascists to justice. Strange world.

Reading the title of this thread, I was expecting the 'fascism' in question to be Islamofascism, which is the only type of fascism with which the Netherlands has a problem. I can't see how the government formulating a sensible and reserved response to the growing problem of jihad bloodlust qualifies.

Murdering a film director and vowing to murder a female African immigrant MP, for drawing attention to atrocities, is apparently far less controversial than democratic measures to bring Islamofascists to justice. Strange world.

Indeed!

No, just worded to support the Right Wing. Propaganda


May be so but how does that effect the whole issue specific here? (and more bias then active propaganda but really lets not get into that arguement)

Reading the title of this thread, I was expecting the 'fascism' in question to be Islamofascism, which is the only type of fascism with which the Netherlands has a problem. I can't see how the government formulating a sensible and reserved response to the growing problem of jihad bloodlust qualifies.

Murdering a film director and vowing to murder a female African immigrant MP, for drawing attention to atrocities, is apparently far less controversial than democratic measures to bring Islamofascists to justice. Strange world.
Or an Imam calling to throw gay's off of roofs. That was called freedom of religion.

Or an Imam calling to throw gay's off of roofs. That was called freedom of religion.
Europe's a strange place and getting stranger, and while I'm in favor of freedom of speech and the like, there seems to be an undercurrent in favor of minorities these days. I'm not sure why, exactly, but if someone was to use the actions of so called followers of Islam in Holland and Darfur (different by orders of magnitude, but still murder) as evidence that Islam was inherently violent they'd be branded a racist.

Interesting times indeed.

Europe's a strange place and getting stranger, and while I'm in favor of freedom of speech and the like, there seems to be an undercurrent in favor of minorities these days. I'm not sure why, exactly, but if someone was to use the actions of so called followers of Islam in Holland and Darfur (different by orders of magnitude, but still murder) as evidence that Islam was inherently violent they'd be branded a racist.
I can't speak for all of Europe but at least in the Netherlands that is a thing of the past since 2-11-2004. People will no longer accept beeing silenced in the name of political correcteness. Like they were after the murder of Pim Fortuyn.

Good.

Now Britain needs the same, I'll put up with the BNP's inane prattling if that's what it takes.

if someone was to use the actions of so called followers of Islam in Holland and Darfur (different by orders of magnitude, but still murder) as evidence that Islam was inherently violent they'd be branded a racist.

Interesting times indeed.
To Holland and Darfur, add the following, all of which have recently seen jihad activity:

Canada, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Algeria, Chad, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Liberia, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Nigeria, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, Albania, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, the UK, Bahrain, Cyprus, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, China, East Timor, India, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uzbekistan, Australia, Chile, Poland, New Zealand, Japan, Czech Republic, Tunisia, Hungary, Niger, Oman, Congo (Kinshasa), Uganda, Switzerland, Serbia-Montenegro, Ukraine, Georgia, Brunei, Myanmar, Ecuador, Uruguay.

There's a map and more information here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003897.php

But it's nothing to do with Islam, it's everyone else's fault, obviously...

The Dutch are good people. They´ll deal with it. I´m confident they won´t take reprisal like the patriotic act for too long. Maybe they´ll swallow that bitter pill now and return to their former tolerant and open society once this crisis is over.

At least that´s what I hope. Don´t let me down!

I can't speak for all of Europe but at least in the Netherlands that is a thing of the past since 2-11-2004. People will no longer accept beeing silenced in the name of political correcteness. Like they were after the murder of Pim Fortuyn.

Pim Fortuyn, now there was a character. An "only in Holland" case, to be sure.

There's a map and more information here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003897.php

But it's nothing to do with Islam, it's everyone else's fault, obviously...
Bugger me, that's a lot of places.

To Holland and Darfur, add the following, all of which have recently seen Islamist violence:

Canada, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Algeria, Chad, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Liberia, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Nigeria, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, Albania, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, the UK, Bahrain, Cyprus, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, China, East Timor, India, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uzbekistan, Australia, Chile, Poland, New Zealand, Japan, Czech Republic, Tunisia, Hungary, Niger, Oman, Congo (Kinshasa), Uganda, Switzerland, Serbia-Montenegro, Ukraine, Georgia, Brunei, Myanmar, Ecuador, Uruguay.

There's a map and more information here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003897.php



I´d really like to know where that 100% credible Jihadwarch.orh gets their info from. Chile? C´mon! Japan? Austria? Islamist violence in Germany? Huh? Nothing I heared of...?

Maybe they define "hot-headed young muslims distribute fliers at a local market place without permission" as "EVIL MUSLIM BIN LADEN VIOLENCE!!! THEY`RE GOING TO KILL US ALL!!! NOOOOO! NOOOOO! AGGGGH!" .... :eyes:

Lets see who those "Jihadiwatchers - We guard over you so you don´t need to worry! YOU CAN TRUST US!" are...

Ah, Mr. Spencer. Consorting with people like Daniel Ali. Interesting books he wrote there...of course he is totaly unbiased and full-fills EVERY requirement of scientific work on the issue... :eyes:

Our enemies use the "F"-word when they are committing atrocities.

"Among ourselves, we keep the law but when we are operating in the jungle, we must also use the laws of the jungle. The prolonged period of peace in Europe has created a dangerous temptation to neglect our defences, both physical and psychological." - Robert Cooper, Sr. British Diplomay

Pim Fortuyn, now there was a character. An "only in Holland" case, to be sure.
Yep. Where else would an openly gay guy have a good shot at the highest political office?

At one point an attack was being planned on Germany, this was a few years ago though and it was stopped. I've not got a link to back myself up with, but it was mentioned in a BBC documentary a while ago.

France was the victim of a subway bombing by Algerian terrorists years ago as well...

Depends how you define "muslim violence", violence in the name of Allah, or violence by people who happen to be muslims? Stuff like the murder in Holland was definately religiously motivated, Darfur strikes me as more ethnic than religious (but carried out by muslims all the same, quite how they can explain that to themselves is beyond me).

Yep. Where else would an openly gay guy have a good shot at the highest political office?

An openly gay guy who supposedly had an extreme right wing agenda, nevertheless. I was bummed out by the news of his murder, as I was following Pim's story, and must admitted, was very intrigued by him. Then again, I find many things Dutch to be highly intriguing. What would be the word for that? Hollandofile? I don't know.... :confused:

At one point an attack was being planned on Germany, this was a few years ago though and it was stopped. I've not got a link to back myself up with, but it was mentioned in a BBC documentary a while ago.

France was the victim of a subway bombing by Algerian terrorists years ago as well...

Depends how you define "muslim violence", violence in the name of Allah, or violence by people who happen to be muslims? Stuff like the murder in Holland was definately religiously motivated, Darfur strikes me as more ethnic than religious (but carried out by muslims all the same, quite how they can explain that to themselves is beyond me).
What about intimidation by Muslims? It doesn't necesseraly need to end with soembody dying. My uncle is a church goer. So when he went to church on sunday in the middle of the mess the doors burst open and 4 Turkish looking youths wielding knives entered and started threatening the pastor to kill him if he didn't start spreading Allah soon. Strangely enough the police later on didn't seem vert eager to find them and there was no mention of it in any papers. And that was in Germany. I think that could count as Muslim violence.

To Holland and Darfur, add the following, all of which have recently seen jihad activity:

Canada, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Algeria, Chad, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Liberia, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Nigeria, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, Albania, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, the UK, Bahrain, Cyprus, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, China, East Timor, India, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uzbekistan, Australia, Chile, Poland, New Zealand, Japan, Czech Republic, Tunisia, Hungary, Niger, Oman, Congo (Kinshasa), Uganda, Switzerland, Serbia-Montenegro, Ukraine, Georgia, Brunei, Myanmar, Ecuador, Uruguay.

There's a map and more information here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003897.php

But it's nothing to do with Islam, it's everyone else's fault, obviously...

I'd like to know how Canada went into that list. I suppose it was from the jewish library that was burned. It was more a case of misdirected Israel anger that "Jihad" related attacks. If this is the case for Canada, I suppose that at least half of his cases can be dismissed.

But I hope the Dutch realise that these recent events should not be viewed as a reason to infringe on it's citizen's rights.

An openly gay guy who supposedly had an extreme right wing agenda, nevertheless.
His "extreme right wing" agenda was warning about something like the murder of Van Gogh was going to happen sooner or later. It also included forced deportation of foreign criminals and fundamentalists. And more selectiveness on who you let in. Pretty much what they want to implement now.

What about intimidation by Muslims? It doesn't necesseraly need to end with soembody dying. My uncle is a church goer. So when he went to church on sunday in the middle of the mess the doors burst open and 4 Turkish looking youths wielding knives entered and started threatening the pastor to kill him if he didn't start spreading Allah soon. Strangely enough the police later on didn't seem vert eager to find them and there was no mention of it in any papers. And that was in Germany. I think that could count as Muslim violence.
That sounds like a good example, can't get much more religiously motivated than coercing someone in to a particular religion. This is a fascinating subject.

But I hope the Dutch realise that these recent events should not be viewed as a reason to infringe on it's citizen's rights.

What about Theo Van Gogh's right to life?

His "extreme right wing" agenda was warning about something like the murder of Van Gogh was going to happen sooner or later. It also included forced deportation of foreign criminals and fundamentalists. And more selectiveness on who you let in. Pretty much what they want to implement now.

Yup, but compared against the present European political correctness scale, its pure Nazism! Its a statement on the state of our union today. I remember when Haider got elected, there was that long ass statement released by some EU MP's, "The Shadow of Fascism Hangs Over Europe", or something like that. Please.

What about Theo Van Gogh's right to life?
Or his right to freedom of speech? Which was the only form of extremism he approved of.

What about Theo Van Gogh's right to life?

Zombies have no rights.

Yup, but compared against the present European political correctness scale, its pure Nazism! Its a statement on the state of our union today. I remember when Haider got elected, there was that long ass statement released by some EU MP's, "The Shadow of Fascism Hangs Over Europe", or something like that. Please.
Oh yeah. I remember that. :rolleyes: And to make matters worse Edmund Stoiber adviced Chancellor Schüssel of Austria to work together with the FPÖ.

Murdering a film director and vowing to murder a female African immigrant MP, for drawing attention to atrocities, is apparently far less controversial than democratic measures to bring Islamofascists to justice. Strange world.

I made the thread in jest, but I'll tell you the (serious) reasons behind it:

1. Some time after 9/11 ( I can't remember whether it was weeks or months) there was a story about how there were actually more anti-muslim hate crimes/speech committed in Europe than in the US (I can't remember the source but I'm trying to track it down).

2. I am surprised by how quickly they've have come to this. Ok, maybe the film director was some kind of national hero (dunno much about him besides the name) but from the outside it looks bad.

3. The Euros on this board IMO sound more racist than the people I know from the South (I have relatives in Georgia, Louisiana, Florida, and Alabama).

4. The most prominent US muslim I know is Louis Farrakhan, and he's black. I don't know a single Arab/Middle Eastern muslim leader. They seem to be on a more national stage in European countries than here.

5. From reading many news articles and the attitudes on this board I've come to the conclusion that, for whatever reason, Muslims integrate within the US culture more efficiently than in Europe. I've met several Arabs/Persians and the men are very much "Americanized". The women seem a bit more reserved though.

6. When Bush claimed that the real reason for terrorist attacks were because they hate freedom, I just rolled my eyes, but when I see things like what you mentioned and the following I have to come to the conclusion that he isn't far off.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11/15/portugal.netherlands.ap/index.html


LISBON, Portugal (AP) -- Three alleged members of a radical Dutch Islamic group were arrested in June and deported to the Netherlands because police feared they were planning an attack on then-Prime Minister Jose Barroso, a former top Portuguese police official said in comments published Monday.

edit: lol I can't believe a joke thread like this made it to 3 pages :eek: :D

What about Theo Van Gogh's right to life?

Don't get me wrong, a murder is bad and murderers need to be prosecuted. However, profiling and stereotyping is a trap which leads to intolerance and fascism.

Of course Theo Van Gogh should not have been murdered. But if I go and kill some innocent girls, are you going to start making legislations to spy and look into the habit of every caucasians out there?

It was a hate crime and should be prosecuted as such. Let's not jump the boat and think that every muslim is now suspiscous. IIRC, the police was out in full force soon after Van Gogh's murder around muslim school and other institutions. Not to watch them but to protect them from the violent backlash it might induce. THAT is good police work. My hat's off to these guys.

To Holland and Darfur, add the following, all of which have recently seen jihad activity:

Canada, USA, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, Algeria, Chad, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Ivory Coast, Kenya, Liberia, Libya, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Nigeria, Somalia, South Africa, Sudan, Tanzania, Albania, Austria, Belgium, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Russia, Spain, Sweden, the UK, Bahrain, Cyprus, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Palestinian Authority, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, China, East Timor, India, Indonesia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippines, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uzbekistan, Australia, Chile, Poland, New Zealand, Japan, Czech Republic, Tunisia, Hungary, Niger, Oman, Congo (Kinshasa), Uganda, Switzerland, Serbia-Montenegro, Ukraine, Georgia, Brunei, Myanmar, Ecuador, Uruguay.

There's a map and more information here: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003897.php

But it's nothing to do with Islam, it's everyone else's fault, obviously...

"Tiny minority of extremists" map? How would it look if someone was to make a "tiny minority of nazis" map? Or a "tiny minority of violent satanists" map?

I notice Norway is on that list. The only case of extremist jihadists I have ever heard of in Norway is when Mullah Krekar, who lead a jihadist army/faction/something several years ago and who might still have connections there was attemptet evicted from Norway. There have been several cases of satanists burning down very old churches just for the hell of it, though.

-That's not saying, of course, that there could not have been some sort of militant islamist attack on Norway which I simply haven't seen on the news...

Don't get me wrong, a murder is bad and murderers need to be prosecuted. However, profiling and stereotyping is a trap which leads to intolerance and fascism.
What are you talking about?




Not to watch them but to protect them from the violent backlash it might induce. THAT is good police work. My hat's off to these guys.
No. It's shitty policework. Cause apparently they are shorthanded when it comes to protecting individuals who receive deaththreads. But they have more then enough manpower when it comes to protecting hundreds of Muslim buildings around the clock.

What are you talking about?



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138595,00.html


No. It's shitty policework. Cause apparently they are shorthanded when it comes to protecting individuals who receive deaththreads. But they have more then enough manpower when it comes to protecting hundreds of Muslim buildings around the clock.
So doing a right thing after dropping the ball on another thing invalidates the right thing? I see. :rolleyes:

Well things here are going crazy, molotovs are being thrown into churches, bombs exploding at mosques, two islamic schools have burned down, 1 filmmaker has been murdered and 2 politicians (that had criticism on the islam) are being threatened with death (one has gone in hiding.)

I think it's a good thing we have a right-wing government now, since a left wing government would've probably talked with the extreme imams, made somekind of a contract, then would've stopped all the talk about it, 2 years later another politician gets shot and the whole thing starts over again.

I don't really care all those new laws, aslong as you don't get yourself in problems your not going to be affected by them, and I think I can fairly trust the dutch government on the justice part (all other parts like social security, economy and environment I don't trust them though and if it's up to me they should get rid of those ministries ASAP and leave it to the market)

"Tiny minority of extremists" map? How would it look if someone was to make a "tiny minority of nazis" map? Or a "tiny minority of violent satanists" map?

That's not saying, of course, that there could not have been some sort of militant islamist attack on Norway which I simply haven't seen on the news...

Yes, Krekar's pretty high profile when it comes to the jihad against civilisation, Norwegian branch (he's thought to have helped co-ordinate the Madrid bombings, and has been convicted of terrorism in absentia by Jordan, of all places). But then there's the rabid Muslim immigrant who went beserk on a plane (with an axe) before being beaten up by a socialist Euro MP.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/cgi-bin/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=1&search=norway

As for a 'tiny minority of extremists', that's not my phrase. Along with 'religion of peace', that's what politicians and the media trot out after every Muslim atrocity.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138595,00.html

And where is the stereotyping and profiling?

So doing a right thing after dropping the ball on another thing invalidates the right thing? I see. :rolleyes:
No. They just don't deserve any respect.

Yes, Krekar's pretty high profile when it comes to the jihad against civilisation, Norwegian branch (he's thought to have helped co-ordinate the Madrid bombings, and has been convicted of terrorism in absentia by Jordan, of all places). But then there's the rabid Muslim immigrant who went beserk on a plane (with an axe) before being beaten up by a socialist Euro MP.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/cgi-bin/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=1&search=norway

As for a 'tiny minority of extremists', that's not my phrase. Along with 'religion of peace', that's what politicians and the media trot out after every Muslim atrocity.

The rabid airplaner in question did not go berserk because of his religious persuasion, but because of mental instability. To avoid mentioning this fact while making a mention of his religion is the worst kind of demagoguery. Such an innuendo strips whatever credibility the website you linked to could possibly have had.

-Also, Norwegians have themselves been known to go berserk on airplanes abroad -before and after that incident. Though not with an axe, to be fair.

Also, the point I wished to make with Mulla Krekar was that it was not as much a matter of him organizing terrorist groups in Norway -so far he is not known to have done so -as it was a hefty debate about whether or not we should throw him out. And I believe his connection with the Madrid case so far has been that one of the Madrid terrorists had his telephone number. -This created another heated debate about whether or not we should throw him out.

Where was I? Oh, yes, the point: If this is the sort of thing that qualifies Norway as a nation harboring a minority of extremists, that map on your site is no more than a shoddy piece of propaganda in line with my proposed maps of minorities of violent satanists and nazis.

"Minority of extremists" is a phrase used by the website you linked to, by the way.

Oh brilliant... detaining ppl without evidence. Sounds like Ashcroft has found a new job.

Considering this is comming from FOX news....... :rolleyes:
Well, they are the people who said that paedophilia was legal in Denmark. (Well, Bill O'Reilly said it.)

People will no longer accept beeing silenced in the name of political correcteness. Like they were after the murder of Pim Fortuyn.
You do know that Pim Fortuyn was not murdered by Islamic jihadists, but murdered by an extreme environmentalist, don't you?

Islamist violence in Germany?
Parts of the 9/11 attacks were planned in Hamburg. Jihadist activity definitely exists in Germany.

His "extreme right wing" agenda was warning about something like the murder of Van Gogh was going to happen sooner or later. It also included forced deportation of foreign criminals and fundamentalists. And more selectiveness on who you let in. Pretty much what they want to implement now.
As far as I remember, he wanted to deport all Muslims, everyone who wasn't white, and close the borders.

As far as I remember, he wanted to deport all Muslims, everyone who wasn't white, and close the borders.
If thats what you remember you obviously have dementia. Cause thats just absolute bullshit. Or you simply have no clue what you are talking about. My guess is the second.

The rabid airplaner in question did not go berserk because of his religious persuasion, but because of mental instability. To avoid mentioning this fact while making a mention of his religion is the worst kind of demagoguery.
You're drawing a distinction between his religious persuasion and mental instability? Please - all Islamofascists are completely insane. Why else would they believe that a long dead bloodthirsty pedophile called Mohammed wants them to kill infidels?

that map on your site is no more than a shoddy piece of propaganda in line with my proposed maps of minorities of violent satanists and nazis.
Firstly, it's not my site. It's the site of Robert Spencer, the distinguished author, acclaimed scholar of Islam and the foremost authority on Islamofascism. Wait until you have his academic credentials and wealth of research experience before you dismiss something so glibly.

Secondly, go ahead, make a map of violent satanists and nazis. Do it with fully referenced sources and reliable research methods, as Robert Spencer did, and I guarantee that you won't end up with a map as full. I can't remember the last time I read a reliable news report about violent satanists, and the last one I read about Nazis was a pro-Palestinian NPD rally in Germany.

You're drawing a distinction between his religious persuasion and mental instability? Please - all Islamofascists are completely insane. Why else would they believe that a long dead bloodthirsty pedophile called Mohammed wants them to kill infidels?

A common problem among some refugees is psychic trauma as a result of persecution, violence and torture experienced where they came from. This can trigger very violent behaviour, especially if the person in question is under great stress. Such stress can for example be induced by having one's application for asylum rejected and being forced to return to wherever they were fleeing from, an unfortunate situation which many people with this sort of trauma will find themselves in.

If you wish to believe that all Islamic fundamentalists are people in mental instability, then fine, do so. But surely you must agree that this does not mean that all mentally unstable persons are Islamic fundamentalists?

Firstly, it's not my site. It's the site of Robert Spencer, the distinguished author, acclaimed scholar of Islam and the foremost authority on Islamofascism. Wait until you have his academic credentials and wealth of research experience before you dismiss something so glibly.

I admit that I have few academic credentials and wealth of research experience to refer to. I do not know how much of this Robert Spencer have, so I'm afraid i do not know how much and what I need to study before I am worthy of pointing out mistakes and innuendo in his work. However, his site's portrayal of this particular case at least is in stark contrast to everything I have heard from Norwegian media, which has specifically stated that there is nothing to imply that this is a jihadist attack. In fact, the opposite has been stated, even in the one article Robert Spencer's website is referencing to.

Secondly, go ahead, make a map of violent satanists and nazis. Do it with fully referenced sources and reliable research methods, as Robert Spencer did, and I guarantee that you won't end up with a map as full. I can't remember the last time I read a reliable news report about violent satanists, and the last one I read about Nazis was a pro-Palestinian NPD rally in Germany.

I can't remember the last time I read a reliable news report about jihadist activity in Norway either, which is the point I'm trying to make. The article Robert Spencer mentions, as I previously mentioned, itself denies the implication that this is the work of a jihadist. Its appearence on this site is justified by the website by the remark An "asylum seeker from Algeria." Perhaps also a jihad seeker.

I am fully confident that I would be able to make a map over satanist or nazi minorities in the world with the same degree of reliable research methods and fully referenced sources. -Even without any academic credentials.

The first murder was indeed by a extremist left wing group, left wing squatters (and the murderer was mainly intrested in the environment indeed, however he was supported by a large group of small organisations (most of them are also terrorists, the mosts acts of terrorism in the netherlands are proven to be done by socialists, greens, communists, syndicalists that stuff))

However that doesn't make a difference, both were silenced for what they wanted to say, because the murderer didn't agree with it (either because he couldn't take it that somebody would point out that there's a lot of woman's abuse in islamic nation or that he couldn't take it that a right winger had a good chance of becoming minister-president)

It's necessary in a number of cases to detain some people with evidence, there are a lot tensions and a lot of arrested terrorists that we can't have walking around recruiting teens. Also saying that Pim Fortuyn wanted to deport all muslims and create a all-white society is total BS, he objected the multi-cultural society (since it doesn't work, it caused all of this stuff so he's right) he prefered a society in which the Judeo-Christian Tradition is the most important, other traditions can co-exist but the Judeo-Christian will be the most important.

But I hope the Dutch realise that these recent events should not be viewed as a reason to infringe on it's citizen's rights.

Why? Many that are targeted think Dutch Law does not apply to them.

Dutch women are getting harassed because they don't cover their hair.

A Dutch Turk said "He(Theo) was saying bad things about Islam. Killing him was a good thing."

If they don't think Dutch Law applies to them then are their rights really infringed?

Jump in, the water's fine :D

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,138595,00.html
nothing the US hasnt done for years now.

does Guantanamo ring a bell? :mad:

Why? Many that are targeted think Dutch Law does not apply to them.
Dutch women are getting harassed because they don't cover their hair.
A Dutch Turk said "He(Theo) was saying bad things about Islam. Killing him was a good thing."
If they don't think Dutch Law applies to them then are their rights really infringed?
its the same everywhere, in germany too. we have a hugh minority of them too, and theyre acting the same.
a lot of respect to the dutch. finnally they have done what everyone was hopeing and wishing for. maybe this violence in netherlands will come over to germany. imo it doesnt need much more.