NationStates Jolt Archive

Quotes from an essay by a noted British historian, Paul Johnson.

"[A]nti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism. An astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots. [I've seen that claim made here many times.] It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history.

"This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly 'know-nothing' President George W. Bush and his 'gung ho' Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity ["Purity", the watchword of cultural racists.] of any kind...

"The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling."
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/017.html

Fits this forum to a tee.

How DARE a polyglot melting pot do better than a European nation! Tsk! :D

That centers entirely on European anti-americanism. I'm not European, and neither are most anti-Americans.

Furthermore, envy cannot be the base for *my* dislike, as my country is financially just as well off as the USA. The essay is flawed. It also generalises that the dislike of the USA among all particular Europeans is due to envy. If it isn't true in my case, how could it be in every single one of theirs?

That centers entirely on European anti-americanism. I'm not European, and neither are most anti-Americans.

Furthermore, envy cannot be the base for *my* dislike, as my country is financially just as well off as the USA. The essay is flawed. It also generalises that the dislike of the USA among all particular Europeans is due to envy. If it isn't true in my case, how could it be in every single one of theirs?
The essay is flawed in the sense that it's completely anti European. Doing exactly the same thing they moan about. Seen it before.

That centers entirely on European anti-americanism. I'm not European, and neither are most anti-Americans.

Furthermore, envy cannot be the base for *my* dislike, as my country is financially just as well off as the USA. The essay is flawed. It also generalises that the dislike of the USA among all particular Europeans is due to envy. If it isn't true in my case, how could it be in every single one of theirs?


Financially as well off as the US? Do explain.

Fascinating article. Good post.

Financially as well off as the US? Do explain.

The average Australian has a spending capacity equivalent (or close enough so that any difference is negligible) to that of the average US citizen. Theres nothing to be envious about.

Of course, the fact that Paul Johnson could be perceived to be completely mad (he used to be rabidly left-wing, now he's rabidly right wing) doesn't invalidate his argument at all. http://images5.fotki.com/v85/photos/2/28241/1034315/002-vi.gif

The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts ,...

and if that's true why do Americans insist on describving themselves as Scottish, or Irish or Dutch, or German, or Jewish or Italian ... or anything but American...??

That centers entirely on European anti-americanism. I'm not European, and neither are most anti-Americans.

Furthermore, envy cannot be the base for *my* dislike, as my country is financially just as well off as the USA. The essay is flawed. It also generalises that the dislike of the USA among all particular Europeans is due to envy. If it isn't true in my case, how could it be in every single one of theirs?

Your country is not even close to the USA. No country is.

The average Australian has a spending capacity equivalent (or close enough so that any difference is negligible) to that of the average US citizen. Theres nothing to be envious about.

:sniper:

That centers entirely on European anti-americanism. I'm not European, and neither are most anti-Americans.

Furthermore, envy cannot be the base for *my* dislike, as my country is financially just as well off as the USA. The essay is flawed. It also generalises that the dislike of the USA among all particular Europeans is due to envy. If it isn't true in my case, how could it be in every single one of theirs?
Spin, spin, spin, deny, deny, deny.

No, anti-Americanism doesn't exist in the exact same form in every person, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in that form at all. The author travels in the circles about which he wrote. He knows better than you what those people are like. The posts on this forum are sufficient example to prove he is correct about the existence of the stated form of anti-Americanism.

Your country is not even close to the USA. No country is.

Uh-huh, right :rolleyes:. What do you base that on?

Uh-huh, right :rolleyes:. What do you base that on?

He probably bases it on the fact that he can't find the USA on a map, and doesn't understand economics.
Certaibny the USA is leading the world in having the largest deficit, killing the most people ... and making itself hated.


America's view of foreign policy: http://images8.fotki.com/v108/photos/2/28241/1034315/smilies1087-vi.gif

Of course, the fact that Paul Johnson could be perceived to be completely mad (he used to be rabidly left-wing, now he's rabidly right wing) doesn't invalidate his argument at all. http://images5.fotki.com/v85/photos/2/28241/1034315/002-vi.gif



and if that's true why do Americans insist on describving themselves as Scottish, or Irish or Dutch, or German, or Jewish or Italian ... or anything but American...??
It really doesn't matter that americans describe themselves as varying types races. The fact remains that americans are less ethnic than the nation states of europe; as a result, this country is accepting a wider variety of ethnicities than any and all of the European "democracies."

:sniper:
:sigh:

Look everyone! heres one reason to be anti-American!

Kidding...Just as well I dont base my opinions of America from people in this forum...

Spin, spin, spin, deny, deny, deny.

No, anti-Americanism doesn't exist in the exact same form in every person, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in that form at all. The author travels in the circles about which he wrote. He knows better than you what those people are like. The posts on this forum are sufficient example to prove he is correct about the existence of the stated form of anti-Americanism.

I'm not saying that jealous envy as a form of anti-american doesnt exist. However, to put that down as the sole cause of anti-americanism is a gross oversimplification. He may know better than me about European anti-Americanism, true. Then again, he may not. And he cannot base that judgement on everyone, either. That is simply ignorant.

It really doesn't matter that americans describe themselves as varying types races. The fact remains that americans are less ethnic than the nation states of europe; as a result, this country is accepting a wider variety of ethnicities than any and all of the European "democracies."

You really don't understand the first thing about politics, demography, geography, ethnicity or anthropology, do you?

and if that's true why do Americans insist on describving themselves as Scottish, or Irish or Dutch, or German, or Jewish or Italian ... or anything but American...??
The point is that it is the combination of all the different people in one place that contributes to america's greatness.

:sigh:

Look everyone! heres one reason to be anti-American!
I completely agree.

Oh yeah, it's been a while since the last "they-hate-us-because-they-are-jealous"... no matter the USA is the only developped country in which you can DIE because you can't AFFORD medical care - "they" are just envious... never mind how arrogant and bullying and ill-inspired your outside policies are - "they are just envious"... lol, go back to bed and keep dreaming, there's nothing I can do for you...

I don't think ALL Anti-americanism is Racist Envy. Some, probably.

Lots of other possible reasons to hate America.

He probably bases it on the fact that he can't find the USA on a map, and doesn't understand economics.
Certaibny the USA is leading the world in having the largest deficit, killing the most people ... and making itself hated.


America's view of foreign policy: http://images8.fotki.com/v108/photos/2/28241/1034315/smilies1087-vi.gif

Actually, I am basing it on the fact that millions and millions of people are trying to get into my country because we offer employment. This country is the most economically powerful country in the world because Europeans are wearing OUR clothes, watching OUR movies, and listening to OUR music. They are following OUR form of government, reacting to OUR foreign policy, and asking for OUR help when they get attacked/invaded.

The USA is hated because we have the greatest military the world has ever seen; cry about it. Unlike the European nation states, the USA does not care if it is hated. Great Britain and France cared if Germany hated them; that's why they appeased Hitler. The USA doesn't work like that. When the Japanese attacked us, congress declared war the following day. We don't puss out. I would enjoy it immensely if every angry European who hated America just killed himself so the US could annex his pathetic land and turn it into something useful. That's what we do: we make things useful and efficient; capitalism is good.

Oh yeah, it's been a while since the last "they-hate-us-because-they-are-jealous"......
Strange how Johnson doesn't the mention the ever popular We saved France argument.

"[A]nti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism.

Bullshit. By his definition any joke/ negative comment made about any othre forteign nation is "racist envy" - like Germans pulling jokes on Austrians, Brits stereotyping all Germans as rabid nazis, Americans dissing the French, etc.

an astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots.

Intriguing argument. Unfortunately it´s wrong. America is so uber-present in todays media that it is almost impossible NOT to know a lot about it.

It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history.

A unproven claim. Actually the bad/ good experiences the US made in creating their federal state IS part of the considerations in creating a European "Federal State" - which the EU isn´t by the way. The Eu won´t be a Federation, more like a Confederacy.

"The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical.

How can it be "racist". Last time I checked Americans aren´t defined as a "race" nor do they claim to be a "race" of it´s own.

It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling."

Bullshit. Europe is doing pretty well - despite all difficulties. Last time I checked noone had the drive to create a "European wuperstate worldpower we ownz0r-creation", most of us are pretty fine with our current status in global politics - at least I am :)

Quotes from an essay by a noted British historian, Paul Johnson.

"[A]nti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism. An astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots. [I've seen that claim made here many times.] It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history.

"This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly 'know-nothing' President George W. Bush and his 'gung ho' Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity ["Purity", the watchword of cultural racists.] of any kind...

"The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling."
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/017.html

Fits this forum to a tee.

Hasn't the inverse been at the root of tensions between the United States and Europe? The much-rooted ignorance of one another's development over the last two centuries?

It's also important to note, I think, that many of the influential political figures of the early American state were cultivated philosophically and politically in European nations (Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, etc).

The 'anti-American' figure the author creates as as generic and incorrect as the image of the American he is trying to discredit. Depending on what framework you use, anyone from Thomas Paine to Jimmy Carter would be seen as anti-American.

I think any kind of faith in any kind of conception of 'nationhood' or nationality is factually absurd and racist. As long as these ideas continue to be propogated, such ant-....ism will continue to exist. So will the ill-conceived attempts to defend it.

And to your point about Bush: The man didn't have a passport until he became President.

You really don't understand the first thing about politics, demography, geography, ethnicity or anthropology, do you?

Did you read the article? This is what the intelligentsia is attempting to do: pretend they are the only ones who know anything and somehow nullify all other ideas concerning the topic.

It really doesn't matter that americans describe themselves as varying types races. The fact remains that americans are less ethnic than the nation states of europe; as a result, this country is accepting a wider variety of ethnicities than any and all of the European "democracies."

.....What ?! As an american living in Europe- I can testify that the U.S is MUCH more rascist then pretty much every single place in Europe. Europe is by definition multi-cultural and they accept those differences, in america your hammered into your "correct" place in society by the overwhelming majority.

The only place there are still racial tensions in europe is in the Balkans.

Spin, spin, spin, deny, deny, deny.

No, anti-Americanism doesn't exist in the exact same form in every person, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist in that form at all. The author travels in the circles about which he wrote. He knows better than you what those people are like. The posts on this forum are sufficient example to prove he is correct about the existence of the stated form of anti-Americanism.
Of course it exists, and that does prejudices of Europe. This author is ridiculous:
1, Today's situation in Europe isn't similar to the unifiying of the first American states, and America and Europe are both bad at integration of immigrants, it is just that slavery chrushed the original culture of the slaves.
2, How can anyone who wants to be taken seriously write "you hate whole country without any basis, and furthermore you are racists and in envy"?

The US economy is not at all the strongest in the world, the dollar was just at an all time low. To say that it is is to be as ignorant as the "euro-weenies" claims...

.....What ?! As an american living in Europe- I can testify that the U.S is MUCH more rascist then pretty much every single place in Europe. Europe is by definition multi-cultural and they accept those differences, in america your hammered into your "correct" place in society by the overwhelming majority.

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

The US economy is not at all the strongest in the world, the dollar was just at an all time low. To say that it is is to be as ignorant as the "euro-weenies" claims...

Continue to live in sheer ignorance.

Americans are a race now? When did that happen?

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.
You are extremely dumb. Lets add no clue of history to Lutton's list.

Oh yeah, it's been a while since the last "they-hate-us-because-they-are-jealous"... no matter the USA is the only developped country in which you can DIE because you can't AFFORD medical care - "they" are just envious... never mind how arrogant and bullying and ill-inspired your outside policies are - "they are just envious"... lol, go back to bed and keep dreaming, there's nothing I can do for you...
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, may I present Exhibit A...

Actually, I am basing it on the fact that millions and millions of people are trying to get into my country because we offer employment. This country is the most economically powerful country in the world because Europeans are wearing OUR clothes, watching OUR movies, and listening to OUR music. They are following OUR form of government, reacting to OUR foreign policy, and asking for OUR help when they get attacked/invaded.

The USA is hated because we have the greatest military the world has ever seen; cry about it. Unlike the European nation states, the USA does not care if it is hated. Great Britain and France cared if Germany hated them; that's why they appeased Hitler. The USA doesn't work like that. When the Japanese attacked us, congress declared war the following day. We don't puss out. I would enjoy it immensely if every angry European who hated America just killed himself so the US could annex his pathetic land and turn it into something useful. That's what we do: we make things useful and efficient; capitalism is good.

Maybe if their countries weren't being routed every few decades by that same military force, they wouldn't have to emigrate.


Your points on music, clothes and the like is funny, but I don't think anyone actually seriously holds that as a reality.

The United States' relationship with Hitler is far more complicated than your grade one grasp of the war.

See, this may be where you and I differ most: whereas you see a failure in European political leadership versus that of American, I see as much in political leadership in general.

Old, white men dictating and destroying the lives of millions.

The America I love wholly is the America that has often been cast as the most anti-American.

America is a nation where it encompasses so much that there will be an incredible extreme of beautiful generosity and despicable evils.

In the shadow of Jim Crowe laws and lynchings there stood those Americans unwilling to allow such a deterioration of humanity. The same repeats itself throughout history.

I think the United States represents humanity in a more modern, existential sense: the beauty of humanity and our good actions is the potential to do commit just as many incidious acts; it's the good actions in spite of a propensity in our nature that elevates those good deeds. The same is true for America; those inspiring accomplishments would be without impact were it not for the possibility and sometimes propensity to commit horrible actions against humanity.

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.
Havw you ever been to Europe? I doubt that because that isn't the case (just look at London you ignorant)...

Actually, millions and millions of people are trying to get into ... OUR clothes (disclamer quote taken out of context)

Please for the love of whatever you believe in don’t think this guy/girl represents the average American!

Actually, I am basing it on the fact that millions and millions of people are trying to get into my country because we offer employment. This country is the most economically powerful country in the world because Europeans are wearing OUR clothes, watching OUR movies, and listening to OUR music. They are following OUR form of government, reacting to OUR foreign policy, and asking for OUR help when they get attacked/invaded.

So? Many people are trying to get into Europe as well.

Americans are also buying Japanese electronics and their children are watching anime, some of you are wearing Italian designer wear and most of you listen to British music as well. I don't see your point with that.

Furthermore, the rest is irrelevant- Greater diplomatic influence doesn't mean the population are better off. Look at the USSR.

Once again, the USA is no better off than my country, so I have no envy.



The USA is hated because we have the greatest military the world has ever seen; cry about it.
No, it's how you use it sometimes.

Unlike the European nation states, the USA does not care if it is hated.

Ah, the global dictator policy. Guardians of freedom, indeed.

Great Britain and France cared if Germany hated them; that's why they appeased Hitler. The USA doesn't work like that. When the Japanese attacked us, congress declared war the following day. We don't puss out.

Firstly, the USA didnt experience fighting on its homeland during WWI, and it didnt suffer anywhere near the losses the European combatants did. They were rightly wary and tried to avoid it happening again. A mistake, yes, but understandable. Secondly, the British Commonwealth and France declared war on Hitler after the invasion of Poland- a similar response to pearl harbor.

I would enjoy it immensely if every angry European who hated America just killed himself so the US could annex his pathetic land and turn it into something useful. That's what we do: we make things useful and efficient; capitalism is good.

:sigh:

(disclamer quote taken out of context)

Please for the love of whatever you believe in don’t think this guy/girl represents the average American!

Don't worry, I don't.

Your country is not even close to the USA. No country is.

Well.
Frankly, Canada has a better Standard of Life than you. So what's that say?
A worse economy, but a better standard of living. Interesting.

Frankly, Per Capita, My Province has a better economy than any other province and (As far as my paper claims) most or all US states.

Finally, I think China is quickly progressing towards beating you.
And Your statement could also apply to any number of other factors.
Such as consumption and waste of resources. You consume more than any other nation in the world. :rolleyes:

Actually, I am basing it on the fact that millions and millions of people are trying to get into my country because we offer employment. This country is the most economically powerful country in the world because Europeans are wearing OUR clothes, watching OUR movies, and listening to OUR music. They are following OUR form of government, reacting to OUR foreign policy, and asking for OUR help when they get attacked/invaded.

Haha. I had to laugh at this.

600% more americans checked out how to get into Canada after your election.
Frankly, Your Form of government is simply a copy of a copy of a copy. If you want to argue it, Greeks had the first democracy, and it was far more a democracy than the system you claim is one today.

And with your leadership, your outsourcing.
So your arguement is that people are trying to get into your country, to work at fast food joints, so that they can miss out on the Tech Support Job you've outsourced to China?
People in and Jobs out... Works well :rolleyes:

Actually, I am basing it on the fact that millions and millions of people are trying to get into my country because we offer employment. This country is the most economically powerful country in the world because Europeans are wearing OUR clothes, watching OUR movies, and listening to OUR music. They are following OUR form of government, reacting to OUR foreign policy, and asking for OUR help when they get attacked/invaded.

The USA is hated because we have the greatest military the world has ever seen; cry about it. Unlike the European nation states, the USA does not care if it is hated. Great Britain and France cared if Germany hated them; that's why they appeased Hitler. The USA doesn't work like that. When the Japanese attacked us, congress declared war the following day. We don't puss out. I would enjoy it immensely if every angry European who hated America just killed himself so the US could annex his pathetic land and turn it into something useful. That's what we do: we make things useful and efficient; capitalism is good.
But you haven't the strongest economy and millions of people aren't trying to get ther though hundreds of thousands of people try to get to Europe (might be the same for US, but of course you don't care about te numbers).

I never watch YOUR movies, I never listyen to YOUR music (except the Doors), you have the FRENCH form of government, you react to Europe's foeign policy (iI hope you know that all countries aren't exactly the same in sheer size and population), and when did western Europe last get attacked?

The other part is just stupid propaganda so I won''t answer that...

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

Ignorance is a bliss right?

I bet Catholic Skinhead is a pretty happy man...

That centers entirely on European anti-americanism. I'm not European, and neither are most anti-Americans.

Furthermore, envy cannot be the base for *my* dislike, as my country is financially just as well off as the USA. The essay is flawed. It also generalises that the dislike of the USA among all particular Europeans is due to envy. If it isn't true in my case, how could it be in every single one of theirs?

If Australia is as financially well off as the USA, how come $1 AUD = $0.77 USD? Also, why is the average GDP Per Capita of the USA $37,800 but the GDP Per Capita of Australia only $30,000?

I'd say you're a little off on your estimation. Why exactly DO you dislike the USA, then?

Ignorance is a bliss right?

I bet Catholic Skinhead is a pretty happy man...
:D

Ignorance is a bliss right?

I bet Catholic Skinhead is a pretty happy man...
Of course, anyone who lives in a secluded, self-constructed buble is happy...:)

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

..... LOL!!!! Dear god lol... Czechs, Slavs, Languedocs, Normans, Burgundians, Walachians, Walons, Swabes, Germans, Poles, Algerians, Tunisians, Basques, Italians, Catalans.. AND IM PASSING PLENTY OF THEM... And thats just for FRANCE ya rightist-wingnut

Ignorance is a bliss right?

I bet Catholic Skinhead is a pretty happy man...


That line always makes me want to have a steak

If Australia is as financially well off as the USA, how come $1 AUD = $0.77 USD? Also, why is the average GDP Per Capita of the USA $37,800 but the GDP Per Capita of Australia only $30,000?

I'd say you're a little off on your estimation. Why exactly DO you dislike the USA, then?

On that note, The UK and Some weird little Island in Europe both have dollars Double (?) That of the USA. (Or they did last summer when I was travelling)
So therefore they are richer...?

Of course, anyone who lives in a secluded, self-constructed buble is happy...:)
He's bitter cause his sister divorced him and ran off with his father.

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

Really? Because, like, I could swear that some of my friends were Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nigerian, Chinese, Greek, Italian, Irish and Jamaican. Guess they must've been having me on. Tricky bastards. Oh, and I guess the leader of our opposition isn't really a Hungarian Jew.

If Australia is as financially well off as the USA, how come $1 AUD = $0.77 USD? Also, why is the average GDP Per Capita of the USA $37,800 but the GDP Per Capita of Australia only $30,000?

I'd say you're a little off on your estimation. Why exactly DO you dislike the USA, then?

Many of our goods are slightly cheaper. The difference isn't much- as you can tell those are both very comfortable living wages compared to the rest of the world. Also, that is GDP- It doesn't correlate directly to average wages.

(By the way, in the past year or two, our dollar has risen by about 20c, making importing goods even easier.)

If Australia is as financially well off as the USA, how come $1 AUD = $0.77 USD? Also, why is the average GDP Per Capita of the USA $37,800 but the GDP Per Capita of Australia only $30,000?

I'd say you're a little off on your estimation. Why exactly DO you dislike the USA, then?
Why would I care about the US economy? I personally look up to the US because of their strong constitutional liberty, but I do in many ways despise them for their "efforts" on the social area. Every country has it flaws, what many people on this board must grasp is that a political discussion or a complaint about the US foreign policy isn't the same as an attack on the country (or them) themselves...

If Australia is as financially well off as the USA, how come $1 AUD = $0.77 USD? Also, why is the average GDP Per Capita of the USA $37,800 but the GDP Per Capita of Australia only $30,000?
Are you stupid or are you just pretending? What on earth does the absolute strength of a currency have to do with the strength of the economy? Nothing. Nothing at all.

Try looking at the GPD per capita, adjusted for PPP. That's a fairly good indicator. Try looking at the how the strength of the currency has fluctuated in the past 10 or 20 years, or even in the past few months. Thats also a pretty good indicator. Try looking at the balance of trade. Try looking at the level of unemployment, or the amount of outsourcing, or the HDI. Especially the HDI.

Why would I care about the US economy? I personally look up to the US because of their strong constitutional liberty, but I do in many ways despise them for their "efforts" on the social area. Every country has it flaws, what many people on this board must grasp is that a political discussion or a complaint about the US foreign policy isn't the same as an attack on the country (or them) themselves...
Bullcrap. What is it when a British magazine puts this headline on its cover, regarding the results of the recent US elections?
"How Can 59,000,000 People Be So Dumb"

This forum upsets me, AS AN AMERICAN!!! This is exactly why the rest of the world(over statement) hates us! We are just to stuck up about ourselves! we cant get over the fact that we are "better" then everyone else, that has always pissed me off! IF america is so GREAT, then why do we make so many enemies. I agree with what the our constitiution should have formed, but with the creation of political parties we have set ourselves ( and probably alot of the world) into a downward spiral. No form of government is perfict, IT JUST CANT HAPPEN. "united we stand" HA, it takes a "tragedy" to bring us together, and then we cant even get along then! WE belive that because "we are the most powerful nation" that we can police the rest of the world. But the main problem is that freedom of speach has one flaw! and that is in the people themselves! have any of you ever heard of the silent majority? well the thing is, untill you have a problem you probably wont go out publicly speak about it. so our nation crys out its complants, but never what we are happy about. pick up an american news paper, BAD NEWS! people live thru complant and tragedy. I REFUSE TO JUGDE OTHER NATIONS, BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER HAD THE OPERTUNITY TO VISIT AND LIVE AMONG THEM. If other nations our "jealous" of us. Then i would like to say i am 'jealous" of other nations. I have heard that some countries in eroupe have not fixed their World war bombed streets, on purpose so that they may remember what war causes. I respect the age, and wisdom of our elders. that from which america came. AND PS ALL AMERICANS, america will not always be great, because we got their by happening to be in the right place at the right time, other nations collapes fighting war. WE JOINED IN LAST, and so we lost the least! the fact that other nations have built back fast enough to still rivil us shows that we are not as great as we may seem.
Sorry if this offened anyone, but i just had to say it!

Bullcrap. What is it when a British magazine puts this headline on its cover, regarding the results of the recent US elections?
"How Can 59,000,000 People Be So Dumb"

Maybe they meant instead that 59 million people didn't vote, therefore not having a voice or listening to the issues, being "dumb" as it were.

lol, kidding...

If Australia is as financially well off as the USA, how come $1 AUD = $0.77 USD? Also, why is the average GDP Per Capita of the USA $37,800 but the GDP Per Capita of Australia only $30,000?

I'd say you're a little off on your estimation. Why exactly DO you dislike the USA, then?

if this is the case then wales is actually more financially well off than the USA which i dont think is the case:D, as 1.00 GBP= 1.84971 USD ???

It can't be recaism, because Americans are not a race :/
There are only 3 races of human beings.

if this is the case then wales is actually more financially well off than the USA which i dont think is the case:D, as 1.00 GBP= 1.84971 USD ???

But he/she was comparing it to average income also, ? what is wales's average income (without that the currency rate is pointlesS)

Maybe they meant instead that 59 million people didn't vote, therefore not having a voice or listening to the issues, being "dumb" as it were.

lol, kidding...
If you're kidding, then what do you think the magazine really meant by that headline? Was it not an attack on the intelligence of over 59 million Americans?

Your country is not even close to the USA. No country is.

Once again, untrue. The british pound is still worth more than the american dollar, and the average luxembourgian income is about $18,000 above that of the average american ($37,800 for USA, $55,100 for Luxembourg). Also, Norway is RIGHT behind us with $37,700, followed by Bermuda at $36,000 and the Cayman Islands at $35,000.

http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/gdp_country_desc.php

Actually, I am basing it on the fact that millions and millions of people are trying to get into my country because we offer employment. This country is the most economically powerful country in the world because Europeans are wearing OUR clothes, watching OUR movies, and listening to OUR music. They are following OUR form of government, reacting to OUR foreign policy, and asking for OUR help when they get attacked/invaded.

The USA is hated because we have the greatest military the world has ever seen; cry about it. Unlike the European nation states, the USA does not care if it is hated. Great Britain and France cared if Germany hated them; that's why they appeased Hitler. The USA doesn't work like that. When the Japanese attacked us, congress declared war the following day. We don't puss out. I would enjoy it immensely if every angry European who hated America just killed himself so the US could annex his pathetic land and turn it into something useful. That's what we do: we make things useful and efficient; capitalism is good.

We offer employment, huh? If we have so much "employment" to go around, why exactly is it that we're outsourcing all of our jobs to taiwan, china, and india again? Oh thats right, its too expensive to keep jobs here. And if there are so many jobs to go around, why exactly is it that after over a year of searching, I still have yet to be hired by anybody? Oh yeah thats right, the economy is down and there STILL aren't enough jobs to go around.

You need to brush up on your history a bit too. France and England appeased Germany because they were afraid of Germany's military might, and thought if they let them have a little more land, maybe they'd be satiated, and stop there.

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

Holy shit dude, you SERIOUSLY need to go learn some basic history. Blacks in the north were free. There weren't as many of them as there were in the south, but they were definitely around in the north. Oh, and Europe is ALL ethnic minorities, their countries are all too small to have an ethnic majority in any sense.

Why would I care about the US economy? I personally look up to the US because of their strong constitutional liberty, but I do in many ways despise them for their "efforts" on the social area. Every country has it flaws, what many people on this board must grasp is that a political discussion or a complaint about the US foreign policy isn't the same as an attack on the country (or them) themselves...

I didn't say you cared, but other people obviously do.. and they were who I was addressing.


Before you respond, please keep in mind a few things:
1) I know we aren't perfect; far from it in fact. There are many things I would change about the USA if I had the power to. But I'm just one kid ;)

2) I voted for John Kerry. Too bad there were 59,000,001 people in the world (59,000,000 in Central USA, and 1 in england: Tony Blair) who liked bush better for some reason. Time for scientists to start looking for what I like to call an "intelligence black hole" situated somewhere around the center of the country.

Fits this forum to a tee.
Yeah it does. Trite anti-americanism.

It can't be recaism, because Americans are not a race :/
There are only 3 races of human beings.
race1 P Pronunciation Key (r s)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.


Really only 3?

I think you need to look at the above definition of race

I'm in a good position to comment about this topic. I'm a canadian, and as such, I can have an outsiders perspective, but I'm also so immersed in american culture that I can comment on that too. Please don't take anything I'm about to say as against americans. I have known several americans and, as a whole, they are kind, decent people. But, I am very much anti-America as it currently stands. THere are several reasons for this, the holier-than-thou attitude, the melting-pot philosophy, the right-wing governmental stance and the hipocracy and damage America has done to other countries.

the first point is that, since america was one of the good guys in WW2, it is always one of the good guys and never, ever wrong. America has done so much damage in the past fifty years to nations all around the world, wether it is overthrowing democratically elected governments in greece, haiti, and most of central and south america, replacing them with brutal, dictatorial regimes, or supporting a 'democracy' in south korea that brutally oppressed it's people, or invading Iraq under false pretenses, or poluting the globe, or opressing it's own poor, america has done a whole lot of bad to our planet and humanity.

The melting pot philosophy also bothers me. While its intentions are good, it denies people the right to their own cultural identity. When you become an american citizen, you have to revoke all other citizenships you may have, instead of just adding one toyour background and who you are.

Americans are one of the most liberal peoples in the world, they just don't realize it. Before you bash me for insulting you, let me explain what liberal acctually means. I am a poli sci student, and the definition of liberal principles is this : Democratic, supporters of free speech, no one is above the law, no one should oppress minorities, supporters of freedom and the right of self determination, supporters of the rights of the individual, etc. THis sounds like the america that most americans beleive in, making most of you liberals. The term 'liberal' only started to be an insult with Reagan, who, I supose, didn't fully understand its implications. Americans are not republicans, and you need to realize this. Somewhere around 80% of americans support socialized medicine, like we have in Canada. THe vast majority of you are in favour of gay rights and are pro-choice. You must look hard at yourselves and find out what you trully believe in.

I am not anti-American, but I am Anti-America. THis is why, and this, I believe, is why many other people are too.

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

Come now, read a history book, the North did have blacks and they were used as slaves. Not as they were in the South but the economics were different at the time in the different places. In the North it was industrial and you wanted to fill jobs and build an economy based on wages because there were a lot of white people to feed and keep happy, hence they needed the jobs and their was no need for cheap labor. Slaves were a luxury in the North not a necessity. In the South you had a huge lack of workers and slaves filled that position. They were dealt with differently but they both existed and how they were treated was based on how much the cultures NEEDED the slaves to sustain their way of life.

The Civil War was not about saving the slaves; it was about economics and control. We didn't do it in charity for the oppressed blacks, it would be nice if we had but we're just diluting ourselves to the reality of history.

If you're kidding, then what do you think the magazine really meant by that headline? Was it not an attack on the intelligence of over 59 million Americans?

Sure, but once again, you cant generalise all anti-americans like that.

(Was that particular magazine some sort of official socialist party propaganda?)

Once again, untrue. The british pound is still worth more than the american dollar, and the average luxembourgian income is about $18,000 above that of the average american ($37,800 for USA, $55,100 for Luxembourg). Also, Norway is RIGHT behind us with $37,700, followed by Bermuda at $36,000 and the Cayman Islands at $35,000.

http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/gdp_country_desc.php

Once again, GDP is not income. The majority, or at least a large portion of that GDP could be corporate profits, NOT average wages, depending on the structure of the nation in question.

Bullcrap. What is it when a British magazine puts this headline on its cover, regarding the results of the recent US elections?
"How Can 59,000,000 People Be So Dumb"
That that paper is anti-Bush? How can you judge Europe by a newspaper? It really surprises me that you know nothing of the pro-Bush right that exists in my country (Sweden)...

(Was that particular magazine some sort of official socialist party propaganda?)


Not even. It was a tabloid.

Sure, but once again, you cant generalise all anti-americans like that.

(Was that particular magazine some sort of official socialist party propaganda?)



Once again, GDP is not income. The majority, or at least a large portion of that GDP could be corporate profits, NOT average wages, depending on the structure of the nation in question.
Hmmm thought corporate profits were not figured into GDP

Hence the domestic part of Gross Domestic Product

I didn't say you cared, but other people obviously do.. and they were who I was addressing.
Before you respond, please keep in mind a few things:
1) I know we aren't perfect; far from it in fact. There are many things I would change about the USA if I had the power to. But I'm just one kid ;)

I didn't really adress you so we are even, right? But I still think that people don't care about the economy of other nations, at least I feel no envy, and the economy of my country isn't the strongest...

I didn't really adress you so we are even, right? But I still think that people don't care about the economy of other nations, at least I feel no envy, and the economy of my country isn't the strongest...

Very true … there is some braging value no doubt

But generally as long as on a personal level you are doing alright most people wont be envious

I'm in a good position to comment about this topic. I'm a canadian, and as such, I can have an outsiders perspective, but I'm also so immersed in american culture that I can comment on that too. Please don't take anything I'm about to say as against americans. I have known several americans and, as a whole, they are kind, decent people. But, I am very much anti-America as it currently stands. THere are several reasons for this, the holier-than-thou attitude, the melting-pot philosophy, the right-wing governmental stance and the hipocracy and damage America has done to other countries.

Yeah, the "holier-than-thou" thing really comes from southern and Central USA, most notably the South-East. They still think they won the civil war there.

the first point is that, since america was one of the good guys in WW2, it is always one of the good guys and never, ever wrong. America has done so much damage in the past fifty years to nations all around the world, wether it is overthrowing democratically elected governments in greece, haiti, and most of central and south america, replacing them with brutal, dictatorial regimes, or supporting a 'democracy' in south korea that brutally oppressed it's people, or invading Iraq under false pretenses, or poluting the globe, or opressing it's own poor, america has done a whole lot of bad to our planet and humanity.

Once again, agreed. America has done a lot of wrong in the world's most recent history. I'd like to think we did some good stuff too, but it's getting harder and harder to pick out as the amount of bad steadily increases.

The melting pot philosophy also bothers me. While its intentions are good, it denies people the right to their own cultural identity. When you become an american citizen, you have to revoke all other citizenships you may have, instead of just adding one toyour background and who you are.

Eh, I think your understanding of that one is a bit off. Some people are allowed dual-citizenship, but I'm not sure exactly how that one works. Yes, we do require other citizenships to be revoked to become a US Citizen, but it doesn't revoke your cultural background. Everyone who lives here that I know counts themselves as an American. However, most families (especially ones of mexican heritage) also take their cultural background and keep it with them, as a reminder to themselves of where they came from, and who they are.

Americans are one of the most liberal peoples in the world, they just don't realize it. Before you bash me for insulting you, let me explain what liberal acctually means. I am a poli sci student, and the definition of liberal principles is this : Democratic, supporters of free speech, no one is above the law, no one should oppress minorities, supporters of freedom and the right of self determination, supporters of the rights of the individual, etc. THis sounds like the america that most americans beleive in, making most of you liberals. The term 'liberal' only started to be an insult with Reagan, who, I supose, didn't fully understand its implications. Americans are not republicans, and you need to realize this. Somewhere around 80% of americans support socialized medicine, like we have in Canada. THe vast majority of you are in favour of gay rights and are pro-choice. You must look hard at yourselves and find out what you trully believe in.

"Republicans" only think its an insult; any "Liberal" in the political sense counts it as a compliment.

I am not anti-American, but I am Anti-America. THis is why, and this, I believe, is why many other people are too.

All in all, there isnt much I can say to rebuke you on that one, but well... I'm sorry my country is such a dick. It isn't my fault :rolleyes:

Hmmm thought corporate profits were not figured into GDP

Hence the domestic part of Gross Domestic Product

Yeah. The value of all goods and services produced within a country.

GNP is the value of all goods and services produced by a nations countrymen.

By that definition of GDP, any corporation located in the US would be factored into it, however overseas profits from transnational corporations wouldn't be included. For example, Walmarts profits would be featured, but European Coca Cola sales probably would not be.

Not even. It was a tabloid.

Was it paraphrasing a quote?

(Then again, it's probably just a clever marketing ploy. That title would sell very well. That's probably all it is and no further examination is necessary :))

So... I'm an American, and I still subscribe to the Anti-American philosophy, obviously it has nothing to do with envy. So does that make me a terrorist, or just a hypocrite?

I prefer educated, but unfortunately, that's not how America sees it.

The melting pot philosophy also bothers me. While its intentions are good, it denies people the right to their own cultural identity. When you become an american citizen, you have to revoke all other citizenships you may have, instead of just adding one toyour background and who you are.
This is the "lack of purity" argument that Mr. Johnson makes and I specifically pointed out. Don't like our citizenship requirements? Don't become a US citizen.

Americans are one of the most liberal peoples in the world, they just don't realize it...The term 'liberal' only started to be an insult with Reagan, who, I supose, didn't fully understand its implications...Americans are not republicans, and you need to realize this. Somewhere around 80% of americans support socialized medicine, like we have in Canada. THe vast majority of you are in favour of gay rights and are pro-choice. You must look hard at yourselves and find out what you trully believe in.
To quote Ronald Reagan: "There you go again." Americans are too stupid to even know what we believe in and what it means? That's very arrogant of you. As for the preponderance of public opinion on the issues you mentioned, the results of recent ballot initiatives prove you very wrong. Almost 70% of voters were against gay marriage in the states where a corresponding initiative was on the ballot. Same with socialized medicine issues, in past elections.

It can't be recaism, because Americans are not a race :/
There are only 3 races of human beings.

Oh? Care to share, Darwin?

I didn't really adress you so we are even, right? But I still think that people don't care about the economy of other nations, at least I feel no envy, and the economy of my country isn't the strongest...

Ah but you did address me, as you quoted my post in your response. But you're right, nobody really cares about the economy of OTHER nations, just their own. ;p

This is the "lack of purity" argument that Mr. Johnson makes and I specifically pointed out. Don't like our citizenship requirements? Don't become a US citizen.


To quote Ronald Reagan: "There you go again." Americans are too stupid to even know what we believe in and what it means? That's very arrogant of you. As for the preponderance of public opinion on the issues you mentioned, the results of recent ballot initiatives prove you very wrong. Almost 70% of voters were against gay marriage in the states where a corresponding initiative was on the ballot. Same with socialized medicine issues, in past elections.

Your country has over THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!

It's utterly stupid to think either the vast majority are superbly idiotic or superbly intelligent and cognizant of issues affecting their lives.

People are people, wherever they live.

The extent to which their public life is ruled by corruption (i.e. what their government does) is what distinguishes nations.

The United States' military interventions worldwide are by no means a reflection of popular opinion in the U.S. but rather the ambitions of few bloated maniacl egos.

To quote Ronald Reagan: "There you go again." Americans are too stupid to even know what we believe in and what it means? That's very arrogant of you. As for the preponderance of public opinion on the issues you mentioned, the results of recent ballot initiatives prove you very wrong. Almost 70% of voters were against gay marriage in the states where a corresponding initiative was on the ballot. Same with socialized medicine issues, in past elections.

To further quote Ronald Reagan: "Ich bin ein berliner" which means, "I am a doughnut." 70% of voters is really only around 30% of the entire population of the USA this time around, but is normally only around 15%, so that statement really means nothing.

Americans are one of the most liberal peoples in the world, they just don't realize it. Before you bash me for insulting you, let me explain what liberal acctually means. I am a poli sci student, and the definition of liberal principles is this : Democratic, supporters of free speech, no one is above the law, no one should oppress minorities, supporters of freedom and the right of self determination, supporters of the rights of the individual, etc. THis sounds like the america that most americans beleive in, making most of you liberals. The term 'liberal' only started to be an insult with Reagan, who, I supose, didn't fully understand its implications. Americans are not republicans, and you need to realize this. Somewhere around 80% of americans support socialized medicine, like we have in Canada. THe vast majority of you are in favour of gay rights and are pro-choice. You must look hard at yourselves and find out what you trully believe in.
You seemto have confused the terms. America is very liberal in a political sense, Bush quite much a liberal. Culturally speaking I am not so sure, I have never been to the US (although I hope to get there as exchange student in two years), judging by the people on NS and what I see in media US is way behind many european countries (secularism, abortions and homosexuality for example, no politican here can survive and discuss them at the same time).

To further quote Ronald Reagan: "Ich bin ein berliner" which means, "I am a doughnut." 70% of voters is really only around 45% of the entire population of the USA this time around, but is normally only around 20%, so that statement really means nothing.

I think you mean JFK ;)

To further quote Ronald Reagan: "Ich bin ein berliner" which means, "I am a doughnut." 70% of voters is really only around 45% of the entire population of the USA this time around, but is normally only around 20%, so that statement really means nothing.

Good point.

Also, yes, no one should quote Reagan. The corpse also believed that trees caused more harm to our air than did 'pollution'.

It's brilliant, really, reading through some of his statements.

I think you mean JFK ;)


Ah, so I do... must've gotten my quotes crossed. I didn't get enough sleep last night >_>


But thats ok, I have a real reagan quote here:

"Facts are stupid things. "
Ronald Reagan

I think you mean JFK ;)

Heh, beat me to it.

Though I can quote Reagan "We have just passed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union. The bombing begins in 5 minutes." (on national TV)

Ah but you did address me, as you quoted my post in your response. But you're right, nobody really cares about the economy of OTHER nations, just their own. ;p
I mean in the "what many people on this board have to grasp...", the other part was for you.

Heh, beat me to it.

Though I can quote Reagan "We have just passed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union. The bombing begins in 5 minutes." (on national TV)


He said that during a RADIO mic test :P

Heh, beat me to it.

Though I can quote Reagan "We have just passed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union. The bombing begins in 5 minutes." (on national TV)

"The deficit is big enough to look after itself now." :D

Ah, so I do... must've gotten my quotes crossed. I didn't get enough sleep last night >_>


But thats ok, I have a real reagan quote here:

"Facts are stupid things. "
Ronald Reagan
Reagan's quote was: "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." And the wall indeed came down, not long after that.

You're welcome, EUrope.

He said that during a RADIO mic test :P

Oops. Well, it was played to a live audience anyway.

I take share of pretty much anti-US media, how come they never mention Reagan-quotes?:P

Reagan's quote was: "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." And the wall indeed came down, not long after that.

You're welcome, EUrope.

Ah yes, for the ending of the Soviet Union was in no way a culmination of fifty long years of a diplomatic penis measuring game, but in fact the sole work of Reagan, who in fact tore down the first piece of the wall using his mental powers!

Reagan's quote was: "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." And the wall indeed came down, not long after that.

You're welcome, EUrope.

"I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I'm in a cabinet meeting."
Ronald Reagan

"Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born."
Ronald Reagan

"People don't start wars, governments do."
Ronald Reagan

The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity
America's success at integration is what most of us admire about it. Especially whe you look at how bad France and Germany are at it.

high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture.......
The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America
I'm sick of hearing about how snooty and elitist Europeans supposedly are! Why do I never hear about American elitists?

I consider Bush, Cheney and the other neocons to be elitists of the first degree. They always think that they know what's best for everyone in the world, and they think that is US imperialism.

Fits this forum to a tee.
How is this place anti-American? Anti-American Government, yes, but that's not the same thing.

I see a lot more stabs made at European society in general (e.g. "your society is in decline", "you're elitist", etc) than at Americans and American society in general.

Quotes from an essay by a noted British historian, Paul Johnson.

"[A]nti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism. An astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots. [I've seen that claim made here many times.] It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history.

"This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly 'know-nothing' President George W. Bush and his 'gung ho' Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity ["Purity", the watchword of cultural racists.] of any kind...

"The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling."
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/017.html

Fits this forum to a tee.

There are NO NOTED BRITISH HISTORIANS
American Historians are biased (to get more funding)
Historians are unemployable (except by CNN)

"""People don't start wars, governments do."""

did he really say that?.. a politician that dosnt lie? NEVER! lol

"""People don't start wars, governments do."""

did he really say that?.. a politician that dosnt lie? NEVER! lol

Yes he really said that, lol

Ah yes, for the ending of the Soviet Union was in no way a culmination of fifty long years of a diplomatic penis measuring game, but in fact the sole work of Reagan, who in fact tore down the first piece of the wall using his mental powers!
Yes, Reagan was instrumental in ending the Cold War, according to the statements of Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders. You need to get past your hatred.

How's the Kool-Aid?

Yes, Reagan was instrumental in ending the Cold War, according to the statements of Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders. You need to get past your hatred.

How's the Kool-Aid?

I hate kool-aid; its almost as bad as tang.

Yes, Reagan was instrumental in ending the Cold War, according to the statements of Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders. You need to get past your hatred.

He just hastened the inevitable by a couple of years. Without Reagan, I would have given them an extra 5, at the most, 10 years before collapse.

How is this place anti-American? Anti-American Government, yes, but that's not the same thing.

It is the same thing, when EUro-snobs say that only stupid, inbred rednecks voted for Bush, which happens continually on this forum.

Yes, Reagan was instrumental in ending the Cold War, according to the statements of Gorbachev and other Soviet leaders. You need to get past your hatred.

How's the Kool-Aid?

There are diplomatic aims to asserting as much. Gorbachev wanted to be accepted by the West and its leaders following the end of the Soviet Union and would not have been, had he 'fought' to the end.

Look at his presence at the conference on Democratic Transition and Consolidation in 2001.

I don't know who would ever take the assertions of world leaders to be accurate descriptions of historial events.

I think Afghanistan did more to end the Soviet Union in the end of its time, than did Reagan.

[QUOTE=Even Newer Talgania]You need to get past your hatred.QUOTE]

I don't know where you're getting hate from, maybe you should read some of my past comments...

He just hastened the inevitable by a couple of years. Without Reagan, I would have given them an extra 5, at the most, 10 years before collapse.
Oh, is that all? What's another five or ten years under the communist jackboot, right? That's nothing.

Our significant contribution to ending the USSR's totalitarian reign is why our true allies in EUrope now are former USSR satellites, like Hungary, Poland, Romania, etc.

[QUOTE=Even Newer Talgania]You need to get past your hatred.QUOTE]

I don't know where you're getting hate from, maybe you should read some of my past comments...
That's exactly where I get it from, your posts. Look at the words you use when you talk about Reagan. Hatred, pure and simple. Don't give in to it, it will consume you.

Oh, is that all? What's another five or ten years under the communist jackboot, right? That's nothing.

Our significant contribution to ending the USSR's totalitarian reign is why our true allies in EUrope now are former USSR satellites, like Hungary, Poland, Romania, etc.

Significant contribution to ending? I'd say our significant contribution was in helping to prolong the cold war. In a sense, we may have helped cause the collapse of their already-fragile economy, because they were spending so much on weapon development to keep up with us.

Oh, is that all? What's another five or ten years under the communist jackboot, right? That's nothing.

Our significant contribution to ending the USSR's totalitarian reign is why our true allies in EUrope now are former USSR satellites, like Hungary, Poland, Romania, etc.

Yes, I too would love to be held up in high esteem by autocratic dictators-in-democrats-clothings.

It is the same thing, when EUro-snobs say that only stupid, inbred rednecks voted for Bush, which happens continually on this forum.

stupid inbred rednecks? naa.. thats just an insault some use.. we know bush voters arn't dumb hicks..but ordinary citizens.. which is the REALLY worrying part!!! haha

Actually, I am basing it on the fact that millions and millions of people are trying to get into my country because we offer employment. This country is the most economically powerful country in the world because Europeans are wearing OUR clothes, watching OUR movies, and listening to OUR music. They are following OUR form of government, reacting to OUR foreign policy, and asking for OUR help when they get attacked/invaded.

The USA is hated because we have the greatest military the world has ever seen; cry about it. Unlike the European nation states, the USA does not care if it is hated. Great Britain and France cared if Germany hated them; that's why they appeased Hitler. The USA doesn't work like that. When the Japanese attacked us, congress declared war the following day. We don't puss out. I would enjoy it immensely if every angry European who hated America just killed himself so the US could annex his pathetic land and turn it into something useful. That's what we do: we make things useful and efficient; capitalism is good.
Where'd they go? Can we have this thread Archived so I can laugh at them on cold winter nights. :D

That's exactly where I get it from, your posts. Look at the words you use when you talk about Reagan. Hatred, pure and simple. Don't give in to it, it will consume you.

If this is your idea of hatred, maybe you should travel more.

I've made many more comments in this thread, prior to even mentioning Reagan.

And as for speaking of him in a hateful way... I don't.

But I do speak of him with disdain, disgust, contempt, and all those other nice synonyms relating to someone of such low standing in terms of human beings.

I'd rather side with Reagan's victims, than his apologists.

That's such complete bullshit it amazes me that anyone would ever write it. It is so obviously aimed at fueling US anti-European sentiments it's ridiculous.

If this is your idea of hatred, maybe you should travel more.

I've made many more comments in this thread, prior to even mentioning Reagan.

And as for speaking of him in a hateful way... I don't.

But I do speak of him with disdain, disgust, contempt, and all those other nice synonyms relating to someone of such low standing in terms of human beings.

I'd rather side with Reagan's victims, than his apologists.

Reagan is the republican hero, and they think so highly of him that they can't even see that he's done any wrong.

That's such complete bullshit it amazes me that anyone would ever write it. It is so obviously aimed at fueling US anti-European sentiments it's ridiculous.

Agreed. Though it doesn't amaze me that someone would write this; I'm actually suprised that there isn't more of it floating around.

Originally Posted by Even Newer Talgania
That's exactly where I get it from, your posts. Look at the words you use when you talk about Reagan. Hatred, pure and simple. Don't give in to it, it will consume you.

I think someone's been watching Star Wars too much again.

Reagan is the republican hero, and they think so highly of him that they can't even see that he's done any wrong.

You know, though, Democrats blew as much smoke up his rear.

The distinction is almost meaningless now and it's incredibly heartbreaking.

I think someone's been watching Star Wars too much again.

I can see a good parallel between Reagan-Bush-Bush.

You know, though, Democrats blew as much smoke up his rear.

The distinction is almost meaningless now and it's incredibly heartbreaking.

only because he deserved it ;)

also, Republicans STILL won't shut up about Clinton, and in all seriousness, no dem really talks about reagan anymore without it being attached to some kind of joke... whereas the repubes talk about billy so seriously :|

I can see a good parallel between Reagan-Bush-Bush.

Yeah they all had average IQs, they all had wars that SHOULD have been avoided, and they ALL had the biggest deficits in the nation's recent history.

only because he deserved it ;)

also, Republicans STILL won't shut up about Clinton, and in all seriousness, no dem really talks about reagan anymore without it being attached to some kind of joke... whereas the repubes talk about billy so seriously :|

I would actually encourage more people to talk about Clinton critically and really assess his presidency in a stronger way, but NOT in terms of his sexual endeavours.

There is enough with relation to Kosovo, Afghanistan, Sudan etc to really horribly dislike the guy.

Oh, is that all? What's another five or ten years under the communist jackboot, right? That's nothing.

Our significant contribution to ending the USSR's totalitarian reign is why our true allies in EUrope now are former USSR satellites, like Hungary, Poland, Romania, etc.

I'm getting sick of this.

My point, one with the oh-so-thick skull, was that the demise of the Soviet Union wasn't due to Reagan entirely. He sped it up, yes, but it would have happened anyway. Do you understand? I don't know why you people keep going off on tangents like that.

Yeah they all had average IQs, they all had wars that SHOULD have been avoided, and they ALL had the biggest deficits in the nation's recent history.

But don't you feel safer? ;)

It is the same thing, when EUro-snobs say that only stupid, inbred rednecks voted for Bush, which happens continually on this forum.

Look, many "Euro-Snobs" as you so poorly put it believe that only inbred rednecks voted for Bush because they have a far more objective picture of americas developement over the last 4 years, and simply cannot believe that anyone other than an 8 toe-d slack jawed cretin could vote for him. I would like you to know that this is not the case despite his appaling record on defense, fiscal policy, environment/forestry policy, healthcare, employment, and the arts... he will protect you from Gay marriage and single mothers, who pose a threat not to your nation, but your morals... only an ill-informed paraniod person votes for Bush, and after 4 years of the Bush administration telling you they are the only people holding the world together that would be a lot of people.

I'm getting sick of this.

My point, one with the oh-so-thick skull, was that the demise of the Soviet Union wasn't due to Reagan entirely. He sped it up, yes, but it would have happened anyway. Do you understand? I don't know why you people keep going off on tangents like that.

OH! So you'd like to be living in Commussia?! Where you have to give blood samples just to be able to give BLOOD SAMPLES!

WHERE YOU HAVE TO DRINK COLA, BECAUSE THERE IS NO PEPSI OR COKE!

WHERE WERE YOU ON SEPTEMBER 11TH?!

;)

I'm getting sick of this.

My point, one with the oh-so-thick skull, was that the demise of the Soviet Union wasn't due to Reagan entirely. He sped it up, yes, but it would have happened anyway. Do you understand? I don't know why you people keep going off on tangents like that.
yes the end was inevitable.. the soviet union was corrupt and rotted.. the west putting pressure on the USSR to build up its arms (using capitalism) made a poor nation even poorer.. ragen just gave the soviet union the last push by forcing it to keep building up its military (which needed money)- but this could be seen in many different ways.. if the cold war wouldnt have happened the USSR would still collapse eventually.

OH! So you'd like to be living in Commussia?! Where you have to give blood samples just to be able to give BLOOD SAMPLES!

WHERE YOU HAVE TO DRINK COLA, BECAUSE THERE IS NO PEPSI OR COKE!

WHERE WERE YOU ON SEPTEMBER 11TH?!

;)

*Shakes head* isnt ignorance terrible

'Noted' British historian, Paul Johnson, is a well known right wing screwball! Nobody listens to the fool!

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

Brilliant post.

I'd be willing to bet that the anti-americanism is more along the lines of a subconscious thing. On the surface it is rationalized by leftists as something along the lines of the usual claims. But it is really a subconscious jealousy. Just a student of psychology's two cents.

I'd be willing to bet that the anti-americanism is more along the lines of a subconscious thing. On the surface it is rationalized by leftists as something along the lines of the usual claims. But it is really a subconscious jealousy. Just a student of psychology's two cents.

This psychology students thinks you should browse your textbook's index again.

Of course, the fact that Paul Johnson could be perceived to be completely mad (he used to be rabidly left-wing, now he's rabidly right wing) doesn't invalidate his argument at all. http://images5.fotki.com/v85/photos/2/28241/1034315/002-vi.gif



and if that's true why do Americans insist on describving themselves as Scottish, or Irish or Dutch, or German, or Jewish or Italian ... or anything but American...??


Judaism is a religion, idiot, not a race. An American can call himself Jewish and still be American. You don't call Catholics who call themselves Catholics un-American, do you? Looks like someone has a bad case of the, "Hitler's Folly." :mp5:

Quotes from an essay by a noted British historian, Paul Johnson.

"[A]nti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism. An astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots. [I've seen that claim made here many times.] It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history.

"This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly 'know-nothing' President George W. Bush and his 'gung ho' Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity ["Purity", the watchword of cultural racists.] of any kind...

"The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling."
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/017.html

Fits this forum to a tee.


The author obviously never went to america. I did, and saw many unbelievables horrors :eek:. Well, that guy anyway is an idiot. Anti-americanism is not racism, since "American" is not a race or an ethny. It is just common intolerance, that I find to be based on nothing if we're talking about american big cities - Miami, New York, Boston, Los Angeles... - but based on a terrible reality if we're talking about the country. Nuff'said.

For you American Nationalists:

How many of you that believe European Anit-Americans are racist? How many of you that believe they are racist, have lived abroad in one of the European nations for an extended period of time?

Back on topic, don't feel like reading through the whole thread.

I think that I fully agree with the opening post, since it's true. I see it around me (yep I'm a european.) people are blindly anti-USA. Most of the anti-americans I know have never been to the US, and base their complete stance on these things, news reports about that George W. Bush misspelled some tiny thing (= he's dumb) news reports that there's more terrorism in Iraq ( stupid terrorists, wait we can't blame them, they are islamic, so they are related to the palestinians and they are sad......hey let's blame the USA for invading Iraq, offcourse not the terrorists!) and a road trip through the USA which shows just about three things: 1. Poor people, 2. Hillbillies, 3. Rich people. Oh and they also usually read Michael Moore.

The Media (which is extremely biased here, much more biased then in the states, really I have heard reporters say 'it's sad that Bush has won' and calling Bush a bastard) and Michael Moore.

This psychology students thinks you should browse your textbook's index again.

This student of Psychology and Medicine concurs.

Bullcrap. What is it when a British magazine puts this headline on its cover, regarding the results of the recent US elections?
"How Can 59,000,000 People Be So Dumb"
The Daily Mirror has no credibility anyway.

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.
Brilliant post.

I can't decide if you are very, very, extremely dumb or sarcastic. Anyway, Europe does have important ethnic minority, but it's not like we expected someone named catholic skinkeads to know anything about anything - and first, do you know the first skinhead was black? In the origin the movement wasn't as terrible as you made it.

But don't you feel safer? ;)

No, I feel a lot less safe knowing that such a tiny mind is leading my country into oblivion.

OH! So you'd like to be living in Commussia?! Where you have to give blood samples just to be able to give BLOOD SAMPLES!

WHERE YOU HAVE TO DRINK COLA, BECAUSE THERE IS NO PEPSI OR COKE!

WHERE WERE YOU ON SEPTEMBER 11TH?!

;)
Where was BUSH on September 11th? Oh yeah, he was still on vacation. Why exactly is it that you people who idolize reagan automatically think that everyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically communist?

This psychology students thinks you should browse your textbook's index again.

This computer engineering student thinks you should browse your fourth grade english text again, unless of course you have Multiple Personality Disorder, in which case your sentence structure still could use an overhaul.

Judaism is a religion, idiot, not a race. An American can call himself Jewish and still be American. You don't call Catholics who call themselves Catholics un-American, do you? Looks like someone has a bad case of the, "Hitler's Folly." :mp5:

If you knew anything, you'd know that judaism is both a religion AND a race. Stupidass, what do you think Israel is all about? Who do you think the hebrews were? D'oh!

Sorry Tovah, I don't give my blood to strangers unless they promise me biscuits first.

Shanah Tovah?

No, I feel a lot less safe knowing that such a tiny mind is leading my country into oblivion.


Where was BUSH on September 11th? Oh yeah, he was still on vacation. Why exactly is it that you people who idolize reagan automatically think that everyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically communist?



This computer engineering student thinks you should browse your fourth grade english text again, unless of course you have Multiple Personality Disorder, in which case your sentence structure still could use an overhaul.



If you knew anything, you'd know that judaism is both a religion AND a race. Stupidass, what do you think Israel is all about? Who do you think the hebrews were? D'oh!


Dude, honestly.

Re-read my posts.

Dude, honestly.

Re-read my posts.

Dude, honestly. I read them already. Unlike some other people around here (no names, mostly because I cant remember most of them), I have a high reading comprehension level... I understand what I read the first time through :P

No, I feel a lot less safe knowing that such a tiny mind is leading my country into oblivion.


Where was BUSH on September 11th? Oh yeah, he was still on vacation. Why exactly is it that you people who idolize reagan automatically think that everyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically communist?



This computer engineering student thinks you should browse your fourth grade english text again, unless of course you have Multiple Personality Disorder, in which case your sentence structure still could use an overhaul.



If you knew anything, you'd know that judaism is both a religion AND a race. Stupidass, what do you think Israel is all about? Who do you think the hebrews were? D'oh!


Wow flaming in your first 30 posts ... congrats

Wow flaming in your first 30 posts ... congrats

Wow useless posting to get your count higher... congrats

Sorry Tovah, I don't give my blood to strangers unless they promise me biscuits first.

Shanah Tovah?

Sorry, not sure what that means.

I'm not Jewish, but I'm one of those people interested in its history/faith/etc.

If you knew anything, you'd know that judaism is both a religion AND a race. Stupidass, what do you think Israel is all about? Who do you think the hebrews were? D'oh!

A nation, not a race. Do you honestly think the Hebrews have any genetic things still in common? There are arab jews as well as european jews (not much black I admit). The jews having been a race with no home, there was genetic melange, now it's no more than a nation. Doesn't change anything, but you told someone he is a "stupidass" while you were wrong, which in my opinion is the onl y thing that deserves death penalty, moron.

Dude, honestly. I read them already. Unlike some other people around here (no names, mostly because I cant remember most of them), I have a high reading comprehension level... I understand what I read the first time through :P

haha, this made me laugh at myself quite heartily...

man, I should definitely practice what I preach sometimes.

I should have re-read your post. I didn't even notice it was you who posted!

Sorry, not sure what that means.

I'm not Jewish, but I'm one of those people interested in its history/faith/etc.

Cool. I'm not Jewish either but I have many Jewish friends.

A nation, not a race. Do you honestly think the Hebrews have any genetic things still in common? There are arab jews as well as european jews (not much black I admit). The jews having been a race with no home, there was genetic melange, now it's no more than a nation. Doesn't change anything, but you told someone he is a "stupidass" while you were wrong, which in my opinion is the onl y thing that deserves death penalty, moron.

If thats the case, then that would make americans not a race. Which was already proven wrong, you fucktard. Go read the dictionary:

race1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.

I'd say that 3 out of 4 of those pretty much fit the description almost to the tee, with minor exceptions, as in all cases.

Cool. I'm not Jewish either but I have many Jewish friends.

I have a couple as well, and strangely, having grown up Catholic it's one of the reasons we were so close.

We would talk about our respective faiths and it was really my first instruction in the lineage between religions.

It's all about celebrating the human family!

Wow useless posting to get your count higher... congrats
Not useless

Just felt the need to congratulate someone with an obvious taste for fire

A warm hearted congratulations nothing to do with my post count … but at least infinitely more intelligent then your responses regardless of how inane it is

Sorry I will get off of the flame bating … good luck with your future posting

Originally Posted by Catholic Skinheads
This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

:D :D :D

Guess I'll note down this one to entertain my lonely winter nights...

If thats the case, then that would make americans not a race. Which was already proven wrong, you fucktard. Go read the dictionary:

race1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.

I'd say that 3 out of 4 of those pretty much fit the description almost to the tee, with minor exceptions, as in all cases.


THIS JUST IN: Race is an antiquated, racist term!

And I don't know anyone who trusts dictionary definitions when it comes to anything beyond a mid-term paper.

Unfortunatly Anti Americanism exists.
This is due to ignorance of global affairs. However quoting British Historians is something every one could do. One of my history professors is a very prominant historian and he disagrees with certain aspects of American foregin policy..does that make him an expert.
Also I think that you will find a large portion of users on nationstates are well informed. If you are suggesting and I think you subtly are, that Europeans are all just complaining cos they wanted the other guy to win, then I suggest that you take a look outside your own box and realise that what the US does affects more then the enclosed.
A large section of my own degree is on American culture, politics and foregin policy( pol and for policy are 2 diff classes). I have also spent much time in America. Does that make me informed enough to disagree with the approach of the Bush administration?
:mp5:

Not useless

Just felt the need to congratulate someone with an obvious taste for fire

A warm hearted congratulations nothing to do with my post count … but at least infinitely more intelligent then your responses regardless of how inane it is

Sorry I will get off of the flame bating … good luck with your future posting

My apologies, I misunderstood the intent of your post, mistaking it for searing sarcasm. :D

If thats the case, then that would make americans not a race. Which was already proven wrong, you fucktard. Go read the dictionary:

race1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.
4. Humans considered as a group.

I'd say that 3 out of 4 of those pretty much fit the description almost to the tee, with minor exceptions, as in all cases.


Then me and my family form a race apart?? you should realize that nobody here cares about the second or third or 4th definition, we are obviously all speaking here about the first meaning. Racism is based on the first meaning, too.

My apologies, I misunderstood the intent of your post, mistaking it for searing sarcasm. :D
Oh it might have been … but that is my way ;) I got to learn how to use the [sarcasm] tags better

THIS JUST IN: Race is an antiquated, racist term!

And I don't know anyone who trusts dictionary definitions when it comes to anything beyond a mid-term paper.

If race is so antiquated, why does everyone still use it? Also, if it weren't for dictionary definitions, the language would lose standardization, and we wouldn't be able to understand one another. Sorta like with the rapper guys and their "wizzle dizzle" speak I can't seem to make heads or tails of.

Then me and my family form a race apart?? think just one second in your life,you'll realize that nobody here cares about the second or third or 4th definition, we are obviously all speaking here about the first meaning. Racism is based on the first meaning, too.

But what are genetically transmitted characteristics?

The existence of hair?

Noses?

Ears?

Eyes?

Diseases?

It's all one race.

Then me and my family form a race apart?? you should realize that nobody here cares about the second or third or 4th definition, we are obviously all speaking here about the first meaning. Racism is based on the first meaning, too.

2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

What, so germany isnt united or classified together on the basis of common history? nationality? they arent distributed geographically the same? What about americans? or canadians? or the irish? nobody uses this definition? since when?

3. A genealogical line; a lineage.

Okay, I'll admit nobody uses this one anymore.

4. Humans considered as a group.

So germans arent a group of humans? americans arent? and so on...

If race is so antiquated, why does everyone still use it? Also, if it weren't for dictionary definitions, the language would lose standardization, and we wouldn't be able to understand one another. Sorta like with the rapper guys and their "wizzle dizzle" speak I can't seem to make heads or tails of.

People use it because it suits their requirements.

Not everyone who uses it is actively being racist, of course.

But for those who can discern, it's our duty to do so.

And as for standardizing language... that's like trying to breed humans. It doesn't/hasn't worked.

Language is a biological function. Grammars do nothing to standardize language. You do more in your daily communications with people than gramma teachers to create and enrich language.

The history of all languages, English included, is the story of the lie of standardization.

Dictionaries are written forms of societal conventions.

Conventions are expressions of society.

Society is an expression of individuals.

I need to get to class.

But what are genetically transmitted characteristics?

The existence of hair?

Noses?

Ears?

Eyes?

Diseases?

It's all one race.

that is what the term race means, many argue that it should be changed to ethny, I have no objections, for me it is just like Blacks becoming Afro-americans. Different word, same meaning.In fact there are genetic differences, an asiatic nose is not like a european one, you'll rarely see an asiatic with blue eyes or a black with blond hair either, or a white with a... black skin ;). Some genetically transmissible diseases are typical to some ethnies, I'm thinking of that disease that, with only one allele, protects from paludism, but both alleles can kill you...

All this said, it seems obvious to me that all humansmust be considered equals, the genetic differences being so little and superficial. However, there are some.

People use it because it suits their requirements.

Not everyone who uses it is actively being racist, of course.

But for those who can discern, it's our duty to do so.

And as for standardizing language... that's like trying to breed humans. It doesn't/hasn't worked.

Language is a biological function. Grammars do nothing to standardize language. You do more in your daily communications with people than gramma teachers to create and enrich language.

The history of all languages, English included, is the story of the lie of standardization.

Dictionaries are written forms of societal conventions.

Conventions are expressions of society.

Society is an expression of individuals.

I need to get to class.

I'm not talkin about the colloquial language of some place, which is bound to have its own quirks... but there has to be a standardized frame in place (dictionaries help with this) so that when someone from the outside comes and hears this stuff, its possible to explain its meaning.

Okay, so you've got a "Negeroid" and a "Mongoloid" (Darwin's terms) and they have a baby.

Which "race" is that, again? I get a little hazy on the discredited theory of "race" right about the time the "one drop rule" comes into play. ;)

2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

What, so germany isnt united or classified together on the basis of common history? nationality? they arent distributed geographically the same? What about americans? or canadians? or the irish? nobody uses this definition? since when?

3. A genealogical line; a lineage.

Okay, I'll admit nobody uses this one anymore.

4. Humans considered as a group.

So germans arent a group of humans? americans arent? and so on...

You absolutely did not understand my post. Think a little more and come back. (btw,yes, nobody talks about the german race in our times. Nor the french race. Or the Russian one. ; the "humans considered as a group" isn't used either, for exemple, do the members of the association for Japanese culture I belong to can be considered as a race? It's a group of humans, too.)

This is why the North didn't have slavery: they didn't have any blacks. Europe isn't racist because it doesn't have any ethnic minorities.

1) The North did have slavery for many years
2) Blacks weren't native to the South and not to the North. The North didn't have a significant black population -because- it didn't have much slavery, not the other way around. That would be why the blacks who were brought over as slaves went to the South and not the North.
3) The North was plenty racist, just the same, not only in how it treated the few blacks it did have but in how it treated the Native Americans, Irish, Poles, Italians, etc.
4) The idea that Europe doesn't have any ethnic minorities is...too idiotic to even comment on. Of course it does. It also is racist but that's another story.

You absolutely did not understand my post. Think a little more and come back. (btw,yes, nobody talks about the german race in our times. Nor the french race. Or the Russian one. ; the "humans considered as a group" isn't used either, for exemple, do the members of the association for Japanese culture I belong to can be considered as a race? It's a group of humans, too.)

Nobody talks about the french huh? Maybe you should start thinking a little about the state of the world before you say nobody talks about the french, because I hear people say that the french suck all the time! And in this case, "humans considered as a group" is probably the BEST definition, as not all of them would be considered "genetically" french.

humans considered as a group is probably a little too general, but it gets the idea across, unless you come across some numbnuts with asinine comments like "the members of the association for Japanese culture I belong to can be considered as a race? It's a group of humans, too."

You absolutely did not understand my post. Think a little more and come back. (btw,yes, nobody talks about the german race in our times. Nor the french race. Or the Russian one. ; the "humans considered as a group" isn't used either, for exemple, do the members of the association for Japanese culture I belong to can be considered as a race? It's a group of humans, too.)

Humans considered as a group means the phrase "the human race". It means all humans considered as a group.

Nobody talks about the french huh?
The french race, no, I never heard of it. I doubt you have.

The french race, no, I never heard of it. I doubt you have.

They started as a race of "barbarians" by the name of the franks, who settled in what is now france. What was that about not hearing of the french race again?

Humans considered as a group means the phrase "the human race". It means all humans considered as a group.


Thx. I had doubts about this meaning, but was not sure enough to contest how he viewed it - English isn't my first language :(

:headbang: Now, now,now. There's no reason to be anti-american. There is however many reasons to be anti-american PRESIDENT (George Bush). I AM an american, and I assure while I am quite likeable, our president is not. So I urge you, turn your anti-american feelings towards as more than our nation has. And rejoice that the election of 2004 -however absurd- marks the last 4 years of the Bush/Cheney regime.

:headbang: Now, now,now. There's no reason to be anti-american. There is however many reasons to be anti-american PRESIDENT (George Bush). I AM an american, and I assure while I am quite likeable, our president is not. So I urge you, turn your anti-american feelings towards as more than our nation has. And rejoice that the election of 2004 -however absurd- marks the last 4 years of the Bush/Cheney regime.

That's about the only consolation we have, that after 4 more years bush will be gone for good. Cheney too, his approval ratings are MUCH too low to be a viable presidential candidate (somewhere in the neighborhood of 15%).

They started as a race of "barbarians" by the name of the franks, who settled in what is now france. What was that about not hearing of the french race again?


I know the french history thx, I'm french. I am also 25% from poland, a little bit spanish, and have asiatics and maybe arab origins from very far that make some people think I'm half asiatic.
Most of the people I know have this kind of gene melting, which prove that french are too much melted with other populations to be considered as a "race" compared to other european countries. Note also the 10% people in France that are muslims, most of them being arabs or blacks. Are they less french that the whites? I don't think so.


Btw, you somehow came back to the accepted definition of race?

Cheney too, his approval ratings are MUCH too low to be a viable presidential candidate (somewhere in the neighborhood of 15%).
well, the other problem is that with his weak heart, he is likely to be dead before 2008 :p

I know the french history thx, I'm french. I am also 25% from poland, a little bit spanish, and have asiatics and maybe arab origins from very far that make some people think I'm half asiatic.
Most of the people I know have this kind of gene melting.

Ah, but in order to have a true definition of the word "race" you must take all of those definitions into account together, as they are all quite inadequate alone, with many flaws already pointed out. Combined, I'd say they give us a pretty good definition, which would give us a french race (Sharing some genetic background, geographic location, language, and society), a german race, a russian race, an american race, etc etc.

well, the other problem is that with his weak heart, he is likely to be dead before 2008 :p
hahaha, good point

I wonder if we'd see the return of dan quayle, if cheney dies before 2008? Now that'd be entertaining...

I'm not anti american. I'm anti neo-conservative (did anyone else see "the power of nightmares??? lol) I'm anti american paranoia. Why do the americans think everyone is out to get them? particularly muslims (but of course it's just a co-incidence that this belief comes from a largely jewish-controlled state.) ahem. I'm anti the narrow-minded influence that Judaism has over the american government and that Christianity has over the people (and to a slightly lesser extent vice-versa). I'm anti the bible belt and evangelical christians, I'm anti excessive consumerism and greed which is displayed so often by the american people. I'm also anti the concept of one nation having such great influence over the rest of the world

Ah, but in order to have a true definition of the word "race" you must take all of those definitions into account together, as they are all quite inadequate alone, with many flaws already pointed out. Combined, I'd say they give us a pretty good definition, which would give us a french race (Sharing some genetic background, geographic location, language, and society), a german race, a russian race, an american race, etc etc.


when the dictionnary gives definition 1), 2), 3), it means each definition must be considered apart.
For exemple, my dictionnary says me that "voler" (in french) means
1) fly in the air
2) Steal something

Should I make a mix of both to understand what it means?

:headbang: Now, now,now. There's no reason to be anti-american. There is however many reasons to be anti-american PRESIDENT (George Bush). I AM an american, and I assure while I am quite likeable, our president is not. So I urge you, turn your anti-american feelings towards as more than our nation has. And rejoice that the election of 2004 -however absurd- marks the last 4 years of the Bush/Cheney regime.
Agreed. However, the american citizen should be expected to hear at least a few disparaging remarks about them as they re-elected the guy. I don'T care why/how/who, you did.
As such, this is my disparaging remark: Get off your lazy bum and go vote! 52% participation is no way to enjoy your voting rights. If you weren't so lazy, we wouldn't be in this mess.
I now return to my regularly scheduled criticism of the government...

:headbang: Now, now,now. There's no reason to be anti-american. There is however many reasons to be anti-american PRESIDENT (George Bush). I AM an american, and I assure while I am quite likeable, our president is not. So I urge you, turn your anti-american feelings towards as more than our nation has. And rejoice that the election of 2004 -however absurd- marks the last 4 years of the Bush/Cheney regime.
Your likeability hinges on the answer to an important question: WHY do you think the 2004 election was "absurd"?

when the dictionnary gives definition 1), 2), 3), it means each definition must be considered apart.
For exemple, my dictionnary says me that "voler" (in french) means
1) fly in the air
2) Steal something

Should I make a mix of both to understand what it means?
Yes it means you should steal in an airplane :)

when the dictionnary gives definition 1), 2), 3), it means each definition must be considered apart.
For exemple, my dictionnary says me that "voler" (in french) means
1) fly in the air
2) Steal something

Should I make a mix of both to understand what it means?

The concepts are different. The term race is much more complex than the word "voler," and therefore requires a much more complex definition than each of them separately. However if they are combined in a way (not necessarily mixed together, but all taken apart to put a complete definition together), then perhaps we can come to a true definition of the word.

Also, the definitions of "race" are all related, and the definitions of "voler" are not at all related.

OK, let's forget about it. Semantics are not something really interesting anyway, you 're not going to make me change my mind and it looks like I'm not going to make you change yours. Pointless discussion :(

OK, let's forget about it. Semantics are not something really interesting anyway, you 're not going to make me change my mind and it looks like I'm not going to make you change yours. Pointless discussion :(

Aww, you're no fun :(

That's about the only consolation we have, that after 4 more years bush will be gone for good. Cheney too, his approval ratings are MUCH too low to be a viable presidential candidate (somewhere in the neighborhood of 15%).
Cheney was never going to run for POTUS anyway.

Can you say "President Guiliani"? How about "President McCain"? Whoever the Democrats nominate in 2008, they're going to lose. Their only hope is to give up the arrogant, condescending attitude toward the American electorate that is force-fed to them by the EUro-snobs.

Cheney was never going to run for POTUS anyway.

Can you say "President Guiliani"? How about "President McCain"? Whoever the Democrats nominate in 2008, they're going to lose. Their only hope is to give up the arrogant, condescending attitude toward the American electorate that is force-fed to them by the EUro-snobs.
Way to reinforce their point of view with pointless stereotyping

Wait for the redneck comeback

I'm not anti american. I'm anti neo-conservative (did anyone else see "the power of nightmares??? lol) I'm anti american paranoia. Why do the americans think everyone is out to get them? particularly muslims (but of course it's just a co-incidence that this belief comes from a largely jewish-controlled state.) ahem. I'm anti the narrow-minded influence that Judaism has over the american government and that Christianity has over the people (and to a slightly lesser extent vice-versa). I'm anti the bible belt and evangelical christians, I'm anti excessive consumerism and greed which is displayed so often by the american people. I'm also anti the concept of one nation having such great influence over the rest of the world
LOL! You start out by saying you're not anti-American, then proceed to list many of the reasons why you ARE anti-American. You psuedo-intellectual EUro-snobs are priceless!

LOL! You start out by saying you're not anti-American, then proceed to list many of the reasons why you ARE anti-American. You psuedo-intellectual EUro-snobs are priceless!


He is explaining his right to be against ideas while remaining respectful of the people. You dont deserve it :)

i'm both european and american and i find that alot of anti americans base their views solely on George Bush and red necks like him and to be honest i hate George Bush mainly because he is incredibly stupid but i do not find that this reflects on every single american as i know people in america who are very intelligent.

yeah, i'm a 17 year old psEUdo intellectual snob. would you not prefer to fault my opinions and actually present some valid points rather than merely insulting me? and why, might i ask is it not possible for me to claim these things if i'm not anti american?

The rest of the world can continue to react to America's political scene and I will continue voting for the Republicans. It seems like Europe is always just behind the United States, though they think they are beyond us entirely. Good luck with the walls, France. Good luck with the theft of religious expression too! Dumbshits. These are the douches we're listening to when it comes to WMD and terrorist threats?

fairy fucks

He is explaining his right to be against ideas while remaining respectful of the people. You dont deserve it :)
lol, not all people playing this game are male y'know, but i appreciate the sentiment :) thank you

i'm both european and american and i find that alot of anti americans base their views solely on George Bush and red necks like him and to be honest i hate George Bush mainly because he is incredibly stupid but i do not find that this reflects on every single american as i know people in america who are very intelligent.

I agree with the fact that you think a lot of Americans base their views from the standpoint of disliking President George Bush, however, I'm unclear as to what you mean by saying, "...to be honest i hate George Bush mainly because he is incredibly stupid..." Could you further define why you dislike him? Merely saying you hate someone because they are stupid or a red neck sounds rather elementary, in my opinion. Your thoughts??

yeah, i'm a 17 year old psEUdo intellectual snob. would you not prefer to fault my opinions and actually present some valid points rather than merely insulting me? and why, might i ask is it not possible for me to claim these things if i'm not anti american?
I've done that, many times. All I get in return are arrogant insults from people like you, who proclaim that the majority of Americans MUST be stupid for not seeing the inherent superiority of EUropean opinions.

The rest of the world can continue to react to America's political scene and I will continue voting for the Republicans. It seems like Europe is always just behind the United States, though they think they are beyond us entirely. Good luck with the walls, France. Good luck with the theft of religious expression too! Dumbshits. These are the douches we're listening to when it comes to WMD and terrorist threats?

fairy fucks

I've never exactly understood the point of posting something like this, though I've noticed that it seems to be the predominant level of discussion on the general board. If you have an intelligent argument to present, please do so, lest people come to the conclusion that you're a blithering idiot.

As for being anti-American, well, I've noticed that many people have managed to make some sort of elaborate ideology of it. Its about as non-sensical as so many Americans on these boards being anti-European. Why do so many people around the world hate Americans? There are many answers. Have you ever asked yourselves why you so ardently hate Europeans? I wonder what the socio-economic causes of your own cultural racism are.

I've done that, many times. All I get in return are arrogant insults from people like you, who proclaim that the majority of Americans MUST be stupid for not seeing the inherent superiority of EUropean opinions.
I'd rather not stoop to that level thank you. My opinions are my own. to me this has nothing to do with my nationality or yours. It's merely a debate. If, however you would prefer to present yourself as immature and intolerant, and insult me without any justification whatsoever; further encouraging the very stereotype of Americans which is largely responsible for a large part in "anti-americanism" then please, be my guest

I'd rather not stoop to that level thank you. My opinions are my own. to me this has nothing to do with my nationality or yours. It's merely a debate. If, however you would prefer to present yourself as immature and intolerant, and insult me without any justification whatsoever; further encouraging the very stereotype of Americans which is largely responsible for a large part in "anti-americanism" then please, be my guest

Well said.

I'm not anti-American. I'm anti-Americans. I just hate some of you. I think that a lot of them are in this very thread. But that phenomenon isn't just limited to Americans, so I suppose I'm anti-stupidity really.

America can claim to be evil, moral, rich, poor, powerful, weak or a banana for all I care. All I know is that I'm an average Joe with the same amount of money as an American average Joe, with a new car, a place to live, decent food and a decent job. I'm infinitely more bothered by my local council's decision to impose parking charges on all public car parks, and the number of speed cameras on the route to my office than I am about America's thoughts about homosexuals or the way a huge number of them act when it comes to political discussions.

I'm a member of other forums too, and I was quite surprised to learn that when Bush won the election, some Americans were hoping to see me and the whole of Europe (who are all evil terrorists and hate all Americans, by the way) cry and start committing suicide. In actuality, I picked up the newspaper and said 'oh, look, Bush won -- hey look at that, a competition to win a holiday to Antarctica! FRICKIN' PENGUINTASTIC!'.
If you ask me, some Americans around here have an over-inflated opinion of themselves and how much the rest of us care. They seem to think that our first thought as we wake up and our last thought as we go to bed is 'Oh god I hate Americans...'. Really, we honestly don't. Maybe ten people per town actually care so much they think about it a lot every day, but most of us...

Well, all I know is that your GDP could be $38,229,925, and your army could be 50x the size of the Chinese population for all I care; I still have as much money as my equivalent US 'Joe' in the US (minus maybe £200 from the extra taxes I pay, although as you pay health insurance anyway...), I still have as much freedom (unless I want to buy a gun, but I don't really want to do that anyway) as my equivalent US 'Joe', I still have the same day-to-day stresses as my equivalent US 'Joe'... did you know, we're also allowed to vote? Magic, isn't it?

We're not politicians. Why the hell are we fighting each other? Leave it up to the scumbags who we vote into power to fight amongst each other. If we all have one thing in common, it's that politicians are sly, plotting, lying, cheating scumbags who don't have any interest in our wellbeing, regardless of what they tell you. Their interest is with our vote, and what we will do with it. They get to play with our tax money, let them do the fighting for us. We should just get on with each other.

Cheney was never going to run for POTUS anyway.

Can you say "President Guiliani"? How about "President McCain"? Whoever the Democrats nominate in 2008, they're going to lose. Their only hope is to give up the arrogant, condescending attitude toward the American electorate that is force-fed to them by the EUro-snobs.

The current neo-conservatives would NEVER accept McCain. I'd love it if McCain ran, he's help rail the republican party BACK th where it should be. But simply enough, I doubt that he'll win.

Dunno about Guiliani, but I've heard the same thing about him.



Interesting people say "don't stereotype against Bush supporters!" To quote my friend in Tennessee, "Of course this state voted for Bush. It's just a bunch of inbred pig-fuckers. I would know, I'm surrounded by them."

Blah blah blah uses fairy as an insult
You either arn't irish, or you have no knowledge of your own culture or heritage. Otherwise you'd never insult the Tuatha Dé Danann like that.



Wanna know how to make America better? http://www.fuckthesouth.com/

(actually go to the website. It's somewhat enlightning. Oh, and funny too ;))

The rest of the world can continue to react to America's political scene and I will continue voting for the Republicans. It seems like Europe is always just behind the United States, though they think they are beyond us entirely. Good luck with the walls, France. Good luck with the theft of religious expression too! Dumbshits. These are the douches we're listening to when it comes to WMD and terrorist threats?

fairy fucks


we had fascism before you. Beaten !

No, No. Get the fuck out. We're not letting you visit the Liberty Bell and fucking Plymouth Rock anymore...

Mwhahaha! :D

Some more Ronald Reagan to lighten things up:
"Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."

"They say hard work never hurt anybody, but I figure why take the chance."

"A tree's a tree. How many more do you need to look at?"

"When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat."

"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession.
I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first"

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles."

"What we have found in this country, and maybe we're more aware of it now, is one problem that we've had, even in the best of times, and that is the people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice."

Heh, as an American who loves his country and all it (was supposed to) stands for, I can honestly say I hate the way America is NOW.

Private enterprise? Yeah right, more like last a few years then get stomped on by the almight corporation.

Freedom? Yeah right, only at the behest of an ignorant majority.

I could go on...

America is in need of some great changes and I fear they won't come until it is too late.

The average Australian has a spending capacity equivalent (or close enough so that any difference is negligible) to that of the average US citizen. Theres nothing to be envious about.

Really?

The average American citizen has a spending capacity (or GDP per Capita) of $37,800 USD.

The average Australian has a speding capacity (or GDP per Capita) of $ 29,000 USD.

Big difference.

Really?

The average American citizen has a spending capacity (or GDP per Capita) of $37,800 USD.

The average Australian has a speding capacity (or GDP per Capita) of $ 29,000 USD.

Big difference.

Yes, but your "average" is driven up by the uber rich in the USA, which are scarcely present in Australia.

Yes, but your "average" is driven up by the uber rich in the USA, which are scarcely present in Australia.
Irregardless it is the average…

It was a reply to this

The average Australian has a spending capacity equivalent (or close enough so that any difference is negligible) to that of the average US citizen. Theres nothing to be envious about.


Rather then average they should have said maybe median (I don’t know what the median is but I am sure you could find out if you are interested)

Or maybe average adjusted for outliers

you can just bring up a article about racium and say ita alright to be racist how dare you i am black you wont like it if i started making fun of you because u r white :upyours:

you can just bring up a article about racium and say ita alright to be racist how dare you i am black you wont like it if i started making fun of you because u r white :upyours:


Woah where did that come from

Way to make your point [/sarcasm]

How do you know they are white (whoever you are accusing) ? or are you just stereotyping

And since when is discussing racism in of itself racist

These boards truly do attract some strange types, no?...

These boards truly do attract some strange types, no?...
that they do, that they do,
myself being one of them ;)

Ah, but in order to have a true definition of the word "race" you must take all of those definitions into account together, as they are all quite inadequate alone, with many flaws already pointed out. Combined, I'd say they give us a pretty good definition, which would give us a french race (Sharing some genetic background, geographic location, language, and society), a german race, a russian race, an american race, etc etc.

You're confusing the terms "race" and "nation". Caucasians are a race, Germans are a nation. Americans are neither (since Americans do not necessarily share genetics, religion or culture), they're citizens of a state. The British would also fail to qualify as either, though the Scots, Welsh, English and Irish are nations. As far as race is concerned you can perhaps expand it to certain sub-groups within the traditional caucasian, negro, oriental, indian etc. definitions to incorporate sub-groups (like Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Han Chinese etc.) but even then it's somewhat dubious. Well, the whole concept is somewhat dubious to be honest.

Yes it means you should steal an airplane :)

Already we have this person encouraging terrorism. :D

Quotes from an essay by a noted British historian, Paul Johnson.

"[A]nti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism. An astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots. [I've seen that claim made here many times.] It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history.

"This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly 'know-nothing' President George W. Bush and his 'gung ho' Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity ["Purity", the watchword of cultural racists.] of any kind...

"The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling."
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/017.html

Fits this forum to a tee.

Hmm, it accuses anti-Americans of not experiencing America outside of 3 or 4 cities, I daresay that that hold true for Anti-English, or anti-French, or anti-just about any fucking European country...\

I think being against any country is stupid...

but hey it's always fun to fling nationalism and anti-nationalism around :D.

Irregardless it is the average…

It was a reply to this


Rather then average they should have said maybe median (I don’t know what the median is but I am sure you could find out if you are interested)

Or maybe average adjusted for outliers

Also, I'm not sure whether your figures took into account the fact that things here are much cheaper than in America, so consumer purchasing power is much higher...

It may well have taken that into account, but IIRC most GRP /capita measures don't take that into account.

OH! So you'd like to be living in Commussia?! Where you have to give blood samples just to be able to give BLOOD SAMPLES!

WHERE YOU HAVE TO DRINK COLA, BECAUSE THERE IS NO PEPSI OR COKE!

Uh...I never said that (not sure if you're kidding or not...). Here, have some of these *gives Tovah a tablet*

(It'll make you strong and able to compete in the olympics as an added benefit)

WHERE WERE YOU ON SEPTEMBER 11TH?!

;)

In bed. Due to the time difference, it occured around 3AM or so.

Yes, but your "average" is driven up by the uber rich in the USA, which are scarcely present in Australia.

Yes.

Irregardless it is the average…

It was a reply to this


Rather then average they should have said maybe median (I don’t know what the median is but I am sure you could find out if you are interested)

Or maybe average adjusted for outliers

Perhaps I should have. Nevertheless- The original point is- I'm not envious of the USA. Why should I be? My country is very well off regardless. What do I care if the average US citizen makes a couple of thousand more than the average Australian? Whoopdee do. The way people latched onto that makes me wonder- are you really so vain as a nation to care that "OMG WE ARE SO MUCH BETTER OUR GDP IS 8.5% HIGHER THAN YOURS LOLLLLL!!!!11111onenoneone" It makes no difference. Honestly. If you adjust it for cost of living and remove the outliers, theres a distinct possibility that we are, in fact, better off...possibly. How much is a loaf of bread over there in US dollars?

OK, I did some poking around.

The average yearly income for a full-time adult worker in Australia is $51,880 in our money...approximately $40,000 in US dollars, considering only the raw exchange rate and not variations in cost of living. Factoring in part-time workers, that's $30106 US dollars. (Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics)

The average US yearly income is $31,632, including part-time workers. (Source: Infoseek.com)

This isn't a median (I couldn't find one for the USA), this also includes the super-rich and super-poor (which I can honestly say there aren't many of either over here.)

(These are 2003 figures)

Now, if food and other consumer goods are more expensive in the USA than over here as I believe, then Australia clearly has the upper edge.

Therefore, I can't possibly be envious :)

The fact of the matter remains the non-Americans can hate the americans all they like and the americans can hate the non-americans all they like and its not gonna do anything except cause hatred.

The US works by pumping its citizens with fear. Quick go buy a handgun some body armor and a gasmask before the terrorists come. Then ya have a whole lot of paranoid people with handguns. I dont envy that at all. Who in thier right mind would be envious of the Americans, seriously wake up. That fact remains the US have more murders per person than the UK, Australia, France, Germany, New Zealand so on so forth I could continue...

Our Presidents and Prime Ministers are more worried about looking after thier own countries rather that some obscure place in the Middle East. I wish I lived in a country that has 3rd world health facilities but has some real cool tanks....... At least I dont have to import my medicines from other countries so I can afford it.

Countless americans have been killed by terrorists in the US. In Australia 0 people have been killed by terrorists since September 11. The only time Australians have been killed is when we holiday in Bali and are bombed in nightclubs popular with Americans. See for all the paranoia you arent too secure, but hey layed back old Australia is looking pretty good as far as security goes, perfect record, can't complain. I am sooooo envious of the US.

Yes the whole world is jealous of the americans.... well maybe not but hey an excuse for why you are hated that blames someone else is better than the truth. Im sure its not the holier than thou attitude and the declaring war every 5 minutes that makes you hated... ROFPMSL us envious hahahahah oh thats priceless.

OK, I did some poking around.

The average yearly income for a full-time adult worker in Australia is $51,880 in our money...approximately $40,000 in US dollars, considering only the raw exchange rate and not variations in cost of living. Factoring in part-time workers, that's $30106 US dollars. (Source: Australian Bureau of Statistics)

The average US yearly income is $31,632, including part-time workers. (Source: Infoseek.com)

This isn't a median (I couldn't find one for the USA), this also includes the super-rich and super-poor (which I can honestly say there aren't many of either over here.)

(These are 2003 figures)

Now, if food and other consumer goods are more expensive in the USA than over here as I believe, then Australia clearly has the upper edge.

Therefore, I can't possibly be envious :)

Oh yes might I add to that post that Australia is still a developing country we have been around for 103 years. After the US being around for 103 years they were doing this... (1886 I believe)

March 17 Carrollton Massacre, (Mississippi) 20 blacks killed
May 8 Jacob's Pharmacy in Atlanta sells 1st Coca-Coke (contained cocaine) (aint that lovely)
September 4 Apache Chief Geronimo surrenders ending last major US-Indian war
October 23 St Louis Browns win World Championship by beating Chicago 4-3 in 10 (after all the American league is the World Championship, noone else in the world plays baseball..and the US is the whole world anyway)

http://www.brainyhistory.com/years/1886.html

Where as Australia has a high life expectancy a higher standard of living than modern day America and we dont have massacres. Oh man we are so envious.

Greetings all.

First I'd like to say that I have only read the first five pages and then the last one of this thread, so it is perfectly possible that anything which I am about to say has already been mentioned - so sorry if I am just repeating someone.

I wouldn't describe myself as anti-american or partticularly anti-America, but I feel that America is going the wrong way about interacting with the world. When the British, myslef being one of them, packed their bags and "bunked" out of the Empire, largely in accordance with America's wishes, America really inherited it. Map the old British coaling stations against the modern U.S. air bases and they'll mostly cross over. But with this informal Empire that the U.S. inherited it failed to do the required things, such as invest properly in developing countries (a fifth of what was invested by the British) and chose instead to continue with the "break in and force them to hold elections" strategy that they had been practicing since 1913. Whether these latest conflicts will have good lasting effects remains to be seen, but the moral of the story is: invest in the world for increased security.

I tailed off there a bit, but I'd like to add that Britain is a multi-cltural society, whether that's a good thing or not I'm not going to judge, and most of us are very happy to live where we are. Also, going back to the second page or something, who listens to American music in Britain? Nowadays you either listen to rubbish boy bands and this new breed of singer singer-songwriters :mad: or you have taste and listen to the good stuff such as the rolling stones, the beatles and dIRE sTRAITS.

Yes well, I think this Australian chapess is making some good points so just consider this an addition to hers...

Having lived in New Zealand and Australia, as well has having spent reasonable periods of time in both the US and UK, I have to say I'm not totally sure why I should want to be "envious" of the US.

As I type this, Basic Healthcare in Australia is FREE. It might not be fast, but the fact remains that if I show up at either the local hospital or a bulk-billing doctor, it won't cost me a cent to get treatment. You have to pay for prescription drugs, but if you're a student or on the dole that'll cost you all of $5 at most.

Like the US, we also have a Constitution, guaranteeing every citizen certain rights- ie, the right to vote, the right to free movement, and most of the other sorts of Rights you'd expect from any civilised country. The major omission from our Constitution is a Right To Bear Arms, which was considered so obvious as to not warrant enshrinement in the Constitution. (Remember, when they wrote the Australian Constitution, the Lee-Enfield bolt action Rifle and the Maxim Machine Gun were the pinnacle of armaments technology, and most people were still running around with muskets and Martini-Henrys or Snider-Enfields).

At the age of 18, I can drink, smoke, gamble, and whore to my heart's content. I can (and do) own a firearm, provided I get a gun licence (which I did). Contrary to popular belief, it's not actually that hard.

Despite the fact I'm a full-time University Student, living away from home, my girlfriend and I can afford to pay rent on a 2 bedroom flat, by a late-ish model car (it's a 1994 model, but we bought it in 2002), buy food, DVDs, go out, own a PC, and so on. Our respective parents don't have lots of money to give us- they help out where they can, but by in large my gf and I have to work for everything.

The Government pays me $200 a week to go to Uni, and there's no interest on my Student Loan- it's indexed to inflation and repayments are taken out of my tax refund, if I earn more than $25K in a year. If I don't earn that much, I don't have to pay anything back that year.

I have access to two fair and unbiased TV Channels (ABC and SBS), as well as several Commercial TV Channels, and Pay TV, should I want it (which I don't), and can keep abreast of world events via the Internet, TV, Radio, and Newspapers- all with considerably fewer ads than in the US.

There's more SPACE here. Australia is a huge country with only 20 million people in it, so our houses have land, and there are parks and beaches for everyone- clean and safe parks and beaches, for the most part.

I'm not Anti-US by a long shot. I've been to the US. My gf's dad lives there. I loved holidaying in the US, seeing the country, and meeting the people, all of whom I found to be friendly and welcoming, if a bit naieve about anything happening outside their borders. But at the end of the day, I prefer living in Australia, John Howard notwithstanding.

Just because I'm not clamouring to get a Green Card doesn't make me Anti-US.

Unlike the US, the Australians granted me a visa and permanent residency as soon as I stepped off the plane from NZ. Two years later, they granted me (and my gf) Citizenship, and allow us to keep our NZ citizenship.

The INS' attitude in the US seemed to be "Fuck you, give us your money, and don't touch anything in our country!". The actual INS Staff were polite, helpful, and courteous, but there was a menacing undertone in the paperwork that other travellers have commented on.

All things considered, I think I'll stay here in Australia, get the best of US culture, with the best of Australian Culture, sit back, have a couple of coldies, and move on with my life, instead of obsessing over the US and their fanboys in their "OMG \/\/3 pw|\| j00!" approach to Foreign Policy, if it's all the same to everyone...

Agreed. However, the american citizen should be expected to hear at least a few disparaging remarks about them as they re-elected the guy. I don'T care why/how/who, you did.
As such, this is my disparaging remark: Get off your lazy bum and go vote! 52% participation is no way to enjoy your voting rights. If you weren't so lazy, we wouldn't be in this mess.
I now return to my regularly scheduled criticism of the government...

Actually, with the electoral college system, and the 50%+1votes needed to win all the votes of most states, some people's votes in the US don't really matter, such as a republican in California or a democrat in Texas. Until more states adopt a policy of dividing their votes according to the will of thier people, americans will know their vote dosen't really matter and stay home. If that system changes, more people will go to the polls.

Yes well, I think this Australian chapess is making some good points so just consider this an addition to hers...

Me? I'm a guy. The "Cabbage Patch Girl" thing is a Jolt forum title. :mad:

Quotes from an essay by a noted British historian, Paul Johnson.

"[A]nti-Americanism is a function of cultural racism. An astonishingly high proportion of European elites know very little about U.S. history or culture and even deny that they have a separate existence apart from their European roots. [I've seen that claim made here many times.] It is strange that those seeking to bring about a European federal state or union have at no stage sought to study the lessons Americans learned during the creation of the U.S. in the 1780s. After all, the U.S. Constitution (suitably amended) has lasted for more than 200 years, and within its framework the country has emerged as the richest and most powerful society in world history.

"This cultural racism is particularly directed at the supposedly 'know-nothing' President George W. Bush and his 'gung ho' Texas background. The European intelligentsia gets its notion of America chiefly from Hollywood, TV soaps like Dallas and fiction. Few of them have any experience of America, outside of three or four big cities. Middle America is unexplored territory. The fact that the U.S. has proved a highly efficient crucible for melding different peoples into a human sum greater than its constituent parts is seen as a misfortune in Europe because it produces a cultural stew that lacks purity ["Purity", the watchword of cultural racists.] of any kind...

"The truth is, any accusation that comes to hand is used without scruple by the Old World intelligentsia. Anti-Americanism is factually absurd, contradictory, racist, crude, childish, self-defeating and, at bottom, nonsensical. It is based on the powerful but irrational impulse of envy--an envy of American wealth, power, success and determination. It is an envy made all the more poisonous because of a fearful European conviction that America's strength is rising while Europe's is falling."
http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/017.html

Fits this forum to a tee.
What a pile of twonk!
This may be the case for some who dislike America, but for others there may be very personal reasons.
As to envy, well can't see that, fear, yes I can understand that.

Oh yeah, it's been a while since the last "they-hate-us-because-they-are-jealous"... no matter the USA is the only developped country in which you can DIE because you can't AFFORD medical care - "they" are just envious... never mind how arrogant and bullying and ill-inspired your outside policies are - "they are just envious"... lol, go back to bed and keep dreaming, there's nothing I can do for you...

I beg to differ. If the life of a patient is at stake, hospitals are required by law not to allow the person to leave the hospital until they're stabilized, regardless of whether or not they can afford the treatment.

Of course, you might work yourself to death trying to pay the hospital off...

I am certainly NOT envious of America. I'm not European either.

Where as Australia has a high life expectancy a higher standard of living than modern day America and we dont have massacres. Oh man we are so envious.
Unless you're indigenous. :(

Me? I'm a guy. The "Cabbage Patch Girl" thing is a Jolt forum title. :mad:

Sorry babe ;)

Of course, the fact that Paul Johnson could be perceived to be completely mad (he used to be rabidly left-wing, now he's rabidly right wing) doesn't invalidate his argument at all. http://images5.fotki.com/v85/photos/2/28241/1034315/002-vi.gif



and if that's true why do Americans insist on describving themselves as Scottish, or Irish or Dutch, or German, or Jewish or Italian ... or anything but American...??


Maybe our citizens represent all of those nations and more. I am of German
decent on my mothers side and I see no reason why I should deny my
culturual heritage. I am an American with a particially German ancestory. My
father side of the family was never able to answer my questions concerning
my ancestory there so I have no idea what it is.... I wish I did.

I've done that, many times. All I get in return are arrogant insults from people like you, who proclaim that the majority of Americans MUST be stupid for not seeing the inherent superiority of EUropean opinions.
The opinion that Bush is a bad leader is found on every continent.

You psuedo-intellectual EUro-snobs are priceless!
Why are you Bush supporters so anti-intellectual?

A very interesting perspective, and I'm glad i read it.

But how can the author possibly hope to claim that that is the source of all--or even most--anti-American sentiment in the world. Perhaps if he means anti-American sentiment based on a sense that America isn't European enough, which best I can figure is what he's saying is the root of anti-Americanism. There's a lot more to people who hate us than this author suggests. And dismissing anti-Americans as idiots and racists doesn't help us figure out how to keep people from hating us.

I was listening to a speech by Blair yesterday...and he was talking about how we need to stop this stupid rivalry. And I tend to agree. Also, why couldn't we get some one who was a good speaker? Like Ari Fliesher(sp).

Unless you're indigenous. :(

Same story with theirs though.

Sorry babe ;)

Hey, don't touch my..!

*realises he could play on this*

...you have to buy me a drink first. :D

There are NO NOTED BRITISH HISTORIANS Really? The late A. J. P. Taylor springs to mind for one.

David Starky! Loadsa history!

whoh, hold on, we mentioned Russia without ONE Soviet Russia joke?

In Soviet Russia, America envy's YOU!

LOL! You start out by saying you're not anti-American, then proceed to list many of the reasons why you ARE anti-American. You psuedo-intellectual EUro-snobs are priceless!

Yes, this is boggling. :confused: Why is it that Americans (sorry, generalizing) are so touchy about their country being criticized? As soon as you disagree with just one aspect of American politics, culture, food habits, foreign or internal policies or what ever else, you are instantly accused of "Anti-Americanism". Being this over-sensitive doesn't look like a sign of great self-confidence to me! :) Are we supposed to think that your country is 100% perfect in every way? Do all you "anti-anti-Americans" on these forums think it is? Honestly? It's like Bush said after the 9/11 terrorist attacks: "Who is not for us, is against us". Makes no sense to me.

Yes, this is boggling. :confused: Why is it that Americans (sorry, generalizing) are so touchy about their country being criticized? As soon as you disagree with just one aspect of American politics, culture, food habits, foreign or internal policies or what ever else, you are instantly accused of "Anti-Americanism". Being this over-sensitive doesn't look like a sign of great self-confidence to me! :) Are we supposed to think that your country is 100% perfect in every way? Do all you "anti-anti-Americans" on these forums think it is? Honestly? It's like Bush said after the 9/11 terrorist attacks: "Who is not for us, is against us". Makes no sense to me.I don't mind the Critisims on culture, or politics. Hey Make fun of our food. I don't care... but also realize the majority of the boards are insulting. "Idiots re-elected the Stupidest man on earth" "@$$holes in America deserve their fate" Those are not criticisms. and really, starting threads Criticizing USA after such a responce from the US Elections is a prime example of Lack of Timing. If this was meant as honest criticism and not a chance to insult the "stupid-uncultured Americans. It should have waited. say till March of 2005. when the world comes to the realization that the election is over... and the results are in.

I don't mind the Critisims on culture, or politics. Hey Make fun of our food. I don't care... but also realize the majority of the boards are insulting. "Idiots re-elected the Stupidest man on earth" "@$$holes in America deserve their fate" Those are not criticisms. and really, starting threads Criticizing USA after such a responce from the US Elections is a prime example of Lack of Timing. If this was meant as honest criticism and not a chance to insult the "stupid-uncultured Americans. It should have waited. say till March of 2005. when the world comes to the realization that the election is over... and the results are in.

Thank you for your answer :) But surely you don't mean that people shouldn't discuss the election results, or criticize USA for that matter, just because most people in Europe are very unhappy with the outcome of the election? But I agree, it's a shame that discussions on internet forums so often deteriorate into statements such as the ones you mention. It makes forums very boring and often a complete waste of time for those of us who are actually interested in discussion and in hearing people's views, which could have been interesting, fun and a great source of knowledge and information.

Thank you for your answer :) But surely you don't mean that people shouldn't discuss the election results, or criticize USA for that matter, just because most people in Europe are very unhappy with the outcome of the election? But I agree, it's a shame that discussions on internet forums so often deteriorate into statements such as the ones you mention. It makes forums very boring and often a complete waste of time for those of us who are actually interested in discussion and in hearing people's views, which could have been interesting, fun and a great source of knowledge and information.discussing is one thing.. but calling people Idiots/morons/stupid/retarded/warmongering/F**kers is not a discussion. Most discussions degrade to that because no one tries to stop it. There was one thread... a discussion about the one proof/event that made you believe in God. that started as a discussion until some posters got personnal and insulting. the thead author didn't do anything until some pointed out that the thread is nothing but another attack on Christians. He refuted but after that, it turned back into polite discussion.

Here's Paul Johnson's defense of the Iraq war.

http://www.nationalreview.com/14oct02/johnson101402.asp

I did notice www.nationalreview.com has US republican advertising and the other authors on this site as well as Paul Johnson are definitely on the ultra-right side.

Originally Posted by Kanabia
I'm not envious of the USA. Why should I be? My country is very well off regardless

Why do you focus on the wealth ? This is not the only reason why europeans are envious, nor the most important. It's culture. In France, more than half of the music we listen to, the films we watch, the drinks we have... come from US. And let's not talk about RPGs and video games... But everybody will say these are cheap music, stupid films, dirt food. I call this envy.

Why do you focus on the wealth ? This is not the only reason why europeans are envious, nor the most important. It's culture. In France, more than half of the music we listen to, the films we watch, the drinks we have... come from US. And let's not talk about RPGs and video games... But everybody will say these are cheap music, stupid films, dirt food. I call this envy.
As a Brit I'm not envious of the US. They have some things I like and some I don't. I am in the fortunate position to be able to choose. I think some of this 'hate' is not envy but resentement at the what people percieve as a culture being thrust on them.
But they only have to look at one thing the US has right. People don't like something they don't buy it, they ignore it or they presure the Gov to do some thing about it. Does not always work but....

I admit there are some things about some Americans that realy boils my p*ss, but not all of them!

They are following OUR form of government,

I admit I snip most of your post mainly coz its crap and I can't be bothered to refute all the crap you wrote so I will use the above statement to prove your ignorance.

Our form of Government....hmmm Well in the UK there is no President. The Head of State is not elected. The head of government is elected but by the party.

In Germany the head of state is not elected by the public but rather by the Federal Assembly and delegates drawn from state assemblies. As a moot point Germany granted suffrage to women in 1918...2 years before it was granted in the US.

France elects its Chief of State. The Head of Government (Prime Minister)is nominated by the National Assembly who is then accepted by the Chief of State. The PM then adivses the Cheif of his cabinet wish list.

Well thats three countries that blatantly DO NOT FOLLOW YOUR FORM OF GOVERNMENT.

Catholic Skinhead credibility rating = BIG FAT ZERO

(can't be arsed to continue)

Anti-Americanism can never be called racism, because the Americans are not a race. They are a very recent amalgamation of a whole bunch of races. The argument falls flat, there.

Anti-Americanism can never be called racism, because the Americans are not a race. They are a very recent amalgamation of a whole bunch of races.
Scientifically, since everyone have the same origin (South Africa), races are a myth. Are you going to say it's OK for me to hate all Africans, then? ;)

They are following OUR form of government,
...which was based on the UK constitution... :rolleyes: Idiot.

Anti-Americans, Anti-Europeans, racists, sexists (women as well as men), and homophobes are all the same: They base their statements on inaccuracies, idiocy, hate, or irrationality.

I think there is some confusion here between hating someone you've just met simply because they're from America and disapproving of the way American society appears to be going in general, or of certain parts of it.
Additionally, if I may say so, this Paul Johnson seems to have got carried away a few lines into his essay (if not before putting pen to paper). I don't think there are many people of the European intelligentsia that criticise the USA because of its 'impurity'.

Why do you focus on the wealth ? This is not the only reason why europeans are envious, nor the most important. It's culture. In France, more than half of the music we listen to, the films we watch, the drinks we have... come from US. And let's not talk about RPGs and video games... But everybody will say these are cheap music, stupid films, dirt food. I call this envy.

Oh, please. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and punk music came from the UK, for example. Many PC games come from Japan, including many of the most popular. The US isn't quite a cultural monopoly. The large population level of the US makes its cultural influence seem off-par with Europe and the rest of the world, but theres no cause for envy. Europe can hold its own.

Europe has culture too. The language barrier makes some of it inaccessible to US residents, however Europe has thousands of years of built up culture. I know myself that French culture is a lot different from my country for example. You have drinks in France such as cider that are a cultural legacy, never-mind Coca Cola. Classical music came from Europe. Renaissance art came from Europe. European thinkers such as Voltaire pioneered modern democracy. Yes, a lot of movies and music do come from the US and even for me, the market is sometimes swamped. However, I listen to French bands such as Noir Desir- it can work both ways. This is an outside perspective- but culture is no reason to dislike the US for any of you. I don't find culture in the least offensive- it can and usually does transcend politics. There is no cause for envy, Europe has an immensely powerful cultural legacy. I don't understand why people would dislike the US in that regard.

As for me, I'm not even jealous in that regard despite my country not having much historical legacy of its own. We have our own distinct culture (though it sometimes doesn't feel that way, now and again i'll look back and see how different we are) the reason for my dislike of the US (not its citizens) is purely political and not at all rooted in envy.

Oh, please. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and punk music came from the UK, for example.
Punk came from New York actually. You could even say that the Velvet Underground's late 60s music was punk. I think that credit for heavy metal should go to Britain, but the term was first used by a journalist at a Jimi Hendrix concert.

It really doesn't matter that americans describe themselves as varying types races. The fact remains that americans are less ethnic than the nation states of europe; as a result, this country is accepting a wider variety of ethnicities than any and all of the European "democracies."

Americans are less ethnic? They have a smaller amount of what nationality and race their ancestors were? What?

Punk came from New York actually. You could even say that the Velvet Underground's late 60s music was punk. I think that credit for heavy metal should go to Britain, but the term was first used by a journalist at a Jimi Hendrix concert.

The Ramones are a good band, but they aren't really punk. More like pub rock with attitude.

The Velvet Underground were the best band ever.

Originally Posted by NianNorth
this 'hate' is not envy but resentement at the what people percieve as a culture being thrust on them
I don't believe that culture can be thrust, at least not in a democracy. On the contrary, the governement tries to encourage local artists. But it doesn't prevent the success of american culture. If it's here, it's because we (or at least, most people) like it, whatever commentary we make on it. If we see so much american TV soaps, it is not because the TV channels are paid by the US government, these know what makes the best audience.

Originally Posted by Kanabia
Europe has culture too. The language barrier makes some of it inaccessible to US residents, however Europe has thousands of years of built up culture
I know we have culture. What I said is that the american culture has as much importance as ours, in our country. We know better the names and lives of american stars than french ones ! And the fact that Europe once had this "immensely powerful cultural legacy" is just what the anti-americanists can't bear !

Originally Posted by Kanabia
Classical music came from Europe. Renaissance art came from Europe. European thinkers such as Voltaire pioneered modern democracy.
It's a good thing you have some knowledge about our history (which you're not going to teach me, I learned that when I was 8). But we're talking about the present. The most intelligent and inspired persons have crossed the Atlantic, juste like Einstein.

And once and for all, I never believe someone who says "I'm not envious". It's what the envious people always say !

[QUOTE=Kanabia]Oh, please. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and punk music came from the UK, for example. QUOTE]

I think we are missing a few important points here:

1) The Beatles
2) The Rolling Stones
3) Dire Straits
4) EC
5) Half of Fleetwood Mac, Peter Green and all those lads
6) Pink Floyd
7) Deep Purple/Whitesnake and all those lads

And there's all the other music such as punk which I am not particularly proud of. :)

Ergo, to say that Europe listens to American music more than vice versa would be wrong, in my opinion. Dark Side of the Moon is estimated to be owned by one in eighteen americans.

[QUOTE=Kanabia]Oh, please. Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and punk music came from the UK, for example. QUOTE]

I think we are missing a few important points here:

1) The Beatles
2) The Rolling Stones
3) Dire Straits
4) EC
5) Half of Fleetwood Mac, Peter Green and all those lads
6) Pink Floyd
7) Deep Purple/Whitesnake and all those lads

And there's all the other music such as punk which I am not particularly proud of. :)

Ergo, to say that Europe listens to American music more than vice versa would be wrong, in my opinion. Dark Side of the Moon is estimated to be owned by one in eighteen americans.

I feel it my duty as a Brit to add to this list:

8) Busted

My work here is done....

...and now for a serious post....

The US works by pumping its citizens with fear..

I agree - this is how Bush gets a lot of his votes. Blowing up the threat sometimes seemingly out of proportion in order that the huddled masses turn to him for guidance. Much like Hitler, or Cardinal Richelieu. However...

I dont envy that at all. Who in thier right mind would be envious of the Americans, seriously wake up. That fact remains the US have more murders per person than the UK, Australia, France, Germany, New Zealand so on so forth I could continue... ..

In this I disagree: I think that there are many reasons to respect - notice, respect, not envy - the Americans. There are too many plus points about their country to name. I've been there, I love it. In response to the second part of the quote, however, I simply say this: America seems to me to be a land of extremes. By this I mean that America encompasses both very clever people and very stupid people - and many in-betweenies. That's not meant to be an excuse, by the way, just an observation.

And in response to whoeevr talked about Einstein crossing the channel...he probably got much better funding over there for his NUCLEAR-RELATED RESEARCH...

And if I'm just repeating stuff, many apologies. Forgive a poor n00b :confused: