NationStates Jolt Archive

Colin Powell's resignation was accepted this morning by the Bush Administration.

Colin Powell's resignation was accepted this morning by the Bush Administration.
yes, can't have some one who is internationally held in high regard having anything to do with the Bush administration.

Do you think he'll run for Prez in '08?

yes, can't have some one who is internationally held in high regard having anything to do with the Bush administration.
Really? wow then the first 4 years really must have been confusing considering he um was there and was still … um “internationally high held”

Do you think he'll run for Prez in '08?
I hope so

Really? wow then the first 4 years really must have been confusing considering he um was there and was still … um “internationally high held”
yes but you can't let things like that go on forever. Fancy having a representative that holds more sway with other gov than the head of the nation!
Great bloke, shame he's gone. He can come here and run for PM, as we don't have any undemocratic restrictions he would do ok!

I hope so

Ditto! If he floats a trial balloon, I'll sign up to work for his campaign. :)

Really? wow then the first 4 years really must have been confusing considering he um was there and was still … um “internationally high held”

He is actually. I hold him in relatively high regard, unusual for a US political figure. But yeah.

It was an announced resignation. I remember that some months ago he had been asked and he said that he didn't know if he would continue in a second term, but he might not want to. Since then there have been a lot of rumors.

He is actually. I hold him in relatively high regard, unusual for a US political figure. But yeah.
No I understand I just mean the original quoted made reference of not having anyone worthwhile on the cabinet hence Powell leaving and I was saying that I was surprised because he was worthwhile back then and he had been on the cabinet for the last 4 years

Sorry if it is vague but it was riddled with sarcasm lol

Do you think he'll run for Prez in '08?

I remember seeing an interview some time back where is said his wife was very against him running for either President or VP. IIRC, sadly, she fears he might be a target for assassination as the first black president.

Personally, I think he'd be great on a ticket in either position.

So who are they going to use now, whenever they need someone to back down from an outrageous claim/statement Rumsfield, Bush or Cheney has made?

I thinkI heard some speculation that "Condee" Rice might get the job. Just speculation, but it doesn't sound that improbable.

I remember seeing an interview some time back where is said his wife was very against him running for either President or VP. IIRC, sadly, she fears he might be a target for assassination as the first black president.

Personally, I think he'd be great on a ticket in either position.

Ditto. How about a Guiliani/Powell ticket? :)

I thinkI heard some speculation that "Condee" Rice might get the job. Just speculation, but it doesn't sound that improbable.

That would be great! It wouldn't be too great a stretch to see Rice become the first female President. :)

Powell gone?

GOOD!

He always was the Teflon General. Despite being personally involved in the Mi Lai coverup, and in prucurement of arms for Iran-Contra - still he managed to stage manage his public persona into that of a moderate.

The Repubs call Kerry a flip-flopper? This is the guy who spent months publicly denouncing the idea for The Gulf War, and then became it's biggest booster when it became policy and was dropped in his lap.

This is the guy who staged that horrid publicity stunt to the UN where he waved his little bottle of Anthrax, put up blurry pictures, and lied his ass off to the world. Indeed, the Senate Report on Intelligence came down hardest on this performance as the single most blatant misrepresentation of the facts that was done in the leadup to war.

And still, through it all, and with his whole career history of being involved in some of the worst instances of official misconduct, he STILL has people that look at him and think that he is an honest moderate.


Bullshit!

He is worse. He is the type to toss all personal integrity in the toilet when asked. A yes-man. A lap dog.

The idea that people have some idea of what he would do as president is interesting, largely because either a) we have seen him time and time again subjugate his personal ethics in the name of obedience, or b) he doesn't actually have any personal ethics.

Not exactly a choice that I would want to discover which one it was in the highest office.

Good! The Bush administration can now continue to dig deeper into the quagmire without dragging Powell down with them.

Good! The Bush administration can now continue to dig deeper into the quagmire without dragging Powell down with them.


quagmire ... "giggidy giggidy"

[/joke]

Powell gone?

GOOD!

He always was the Teflon General. Despite being personally involved in the Mi Lai coverup, and in prucurement of arms for Iran-Contra - still he managed to stage manage his public persona into that of a moderate.

The Repubs call Kerry a flip-flopper? This is the guy who spent months publicly denouncing the idea for The Gulf War, and then became it's biggest booster when it became policy and was dropped in his lap.

This is the guy who staged that horrid publicity stunt to the UN where he waved his little bottle of Anthrax, put up blurry pictures, and lied his ass off to the world. Indeed, the Senate Report on Intelligence came down hardest on this performance as the single most blatant misrepresentation of the facts that was done in the leadup to war.

And still, through it all, and with his whole career history of being involved in some of the worst instances of official misconduct, he STILL has people that look at him and think that he is an honest moderate.


Bullshit!

He is worse. He is the type to toss all personal integrity in the toilet when asked. A yes-man. A lap dog.

The idea that people have some idea of what he would do as president is interesting, largely because either a) we have seen him time and time again subjugate his personal ethics in the name of obedience, or b) he doesn't actually have any personal ethics.

Not exactly a choice that I would want to discover which one it was in the highest office.

I suspect you suffer from a lack of understanding of the military approach to decision-making and organizational unity. As a career military man, General Powell would, and probably did, hotly debate issues prior to any decision being made. After the decision had been made, he would, as would any good soldier, accept the decision as his own and implement it to the best of his ability. This is how military personnel are trained.

Well ... so much for peace in the middle east ... now Bush will get to do it at gunpoint and liberate all that nice Jesus oil from those godless Ay-rab Moo-slums.

*sigh*

For those of you on the forums who don't believe in Hell, I invite you to look at the US in, oh say, mid-2006.

I suspect you suffer from a lack of understanding of the military approach to decision-making and organizational unity. As a career military man, General Powell would, and probably did, hotly debate issues prior to any decision being made. After the decision had been made, he would, as would any good soldier, accept the decision as his own and implement it to the best of his ability. This is how military personnel are trained.

Yes, I really have a lot of respect for Powell, and I hate Bush mind you. Powell must have had the shittiest job in the world over the past four years as he was the only one of the higher ups in this administration with military experience yet he was voted out in every military decision by Cheaney and Rumsfeld. However, he knew that he had been appointed to do a job and did it well. This administration led him to the slaughter in front of the UN (even though he had argued against going to war in Iraq) and he was able to weather that, just shows how strong he is.

I wouldn't have lasted one year of that, let alone four.

Yes, I really have a lot of respect for Powell, and I hate Bush mind you. Powell must have had the shittiest job in the world over the past four years as he was the only one of the higher ups in this administration with military experience yet he was voted out in every military decision by Cheaney and Rumsfeld. However, he knew that he had been appointed to do a job and did it well. This administration led him to the slaughter in front of the UN (even though he had argued against going to war in Iraq) and he was able to weather that, just shows how strong he is.

I wouldn't have lasted one year of that, let alone four.

You and I actually agree on something? Another first! :D

Yes, I really have a lot of respect for Powell, and I hate Bush mind you. Powell must have had the shittiest job in the world over the past four years as he was the only one of the higher ups in this administration with military experience yet he was voted out in every military decision by Cheaney and Rumsfeld. However, he knew that he had been appointed to do a job and did it well. This administration led him to the slaughter in front of the UN (even though he had argued against going to war in Iraq) and he was able to weather that, just shows how strong he is.

I wouldn't have lasted one year of that, let alone four.

Sums up my feelings for the man quite well, though I would still want to see his position on the issues befor supporting him in a run for any major political positions.

is it too early to pre-order his book on amazon.com?

its gonna be a must-read.

Yes, I really have a lot of respect for Powell, and I hate Bush mind you.

That's one of the reasons I think he'd be able to win a campaign for president: he's attractive more moderate and even liberal voters. This is mainly because of the distance he's maintained from the Bush administration, per se. If he can get the devout republicans motivated as well as those partisan ship-jumpers I think he's the best shot the republicans have at 2008. He can easily ride in on his military credentials, considering how important terrorism is as an issue. And he can quickly increase the republican vote amongst blacks.

If only his wife will let him run...

I suspect you suffer from a lack of understanding of the military approach to decision-making and organizational unity. As a career military man, General Powell would, and probably did, hotly debate issues prior to any decision being made. After the decision had been made, he would, as would any good soldier, accept the decision as his own and implement it to the best of his ability. This is how military personnel are trained.


Well, if you say it's OK for a military officer to repeatedly, knowingly become involved in things that they must know are wrong, and never be held acountable for those things then that is you perogative.

I, on the other hand, feel that truly honorable military men live up to the oath and do the right thing despite orders when the situation merits.

And, to my mind, doing the right thing does NOT include:

1.) When serving as deputy assistant chief of staff at the Americal (the 23rd Infantry Division) with the rank of Major, and when charged with investigating a detailed letter by Tom Glen (a soldier from the 11th Light Infantry Brigade) which backed up rumored allegations of the My Lai massacre, writing a response that sloughs it off by saying: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

Right Colin - it can't possibly have happened because the citizens love us! In other news, Abu Ghraib didn't happen because the Iraqi's loved you for liberating them...

2.) When serving in Washington and when one knows that trade sanctions are in place, you might just refuse to involve yourself in the transfer of missiles to Iran.

3) Carefully read the Senate Report that showed that the CIA had serious reservations about the claims he intended to make to the UN, and made those reservations known to Colin, but still he made them. the LA times has a copy of the criticisms of his speech when the CIA vetted it:

http://images.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2004-07/13418408.pdf

He, of course, made the speech anyway.


We could also discuss the issues of Civillian casualties during the Panama invasion under his command that Atorney General Ramsey Clarke described as being hidden behind a "veil of silence", his being part of the BS machine that made the false claims about Patriot missile successes durig the First Gulf War (Raytheon loved the sales pitch though), or his directing some of the tactics of the Gulf War that made some people uncomfortable (the Highway of Death, bulldozing occupied Iraqi trenches, etc), but that it another issue.



Now, you can give him a pass and say "Well, he's a good soldier who will do anything asked of him" if you like. Contrary to your assertion, I DO understand the way the military works in that regard.

Of course, the flip-side to that is: how do you know WHAT he will do without someone in charge of him?

That is what worries me as he seems to have been a magnet for high-profile, questionable events in the past.


Mi Lai. Iran Contra. Iraqi WMD. That is a hell of a triumvirate to be involved in for one career....

You and I actually agree on something? Another first! :D

I surmise that you and I would agree on a great many things, if it our nation and this website weren't so polarized. And at least you are reasonable, that goes a long way on NS.

That's one of the reasons I think he'd be able to win a campaign for president: he's attractive more moderate and even liberal voters. This is mainly because of the distance he's maintained from the Bush administration, per se. If he can get the devout republicans motivated as well as those partisan ship-jumpers I think he's the best shot the republicans have at 2008. He can easily ride in on his military credentials, considering how important terrorism is as an issue. And he can quickly increase the republican vote amongst blacks.

I would vote for him, no doubt about that. However, he would join John McCain and John Kerry as the only presidential candidates I have voted for, and I believe his fate would be the same.

To begin with, there is no way he could carry the south, at least it seems that way to me. And I don't see too many liberals voting republican, especially for someone who was a member of the Bush admin.

I also hardly think that the republican party could afford to run a black moderate right now. I think that it may have a far too splintering effect on the party. You will see the neocons and fervent traditionalists (how's that for tact) lining up against the moderates in the party and it will be a really nasty primary.

I think McCain and Guiliani are the only two moderates with a chance. And I don't think that even they could win the primary. I see someone like Frist, Jeb Bush, or Ralph Reed winning it.

If only his wife will let him run...

Well, if you say it's OK for a military officer to repeatedly, knowingly become involved in things that they must know are wrong, and never be held acountable for those things then that is you perogative.

I said no such thing.

I surmise that you and I would agree on a great many things, if it our nation and this website weren't so polarized. And at least you are reasonable, that goes a long way on NS.

Thank you. There are a few subjects about which I tend to be a tad less than rational, but I usually do try to be. :)

I, on the other hand, feel that truly honorable military men live up to the oath and do the right thing despite orders when the situation merits.

Wow, this is way too serious...

[senseless-superpowered unfair-edit]

... My...response...."...'rect...relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."
:eek:


...i...can't...cause the...love...In...Abu Ghraib...because I...love...you...r ...ting...

Sounds like a personal problem.


2.) Washing...one...that trade...s in...your...missiles...I...had serious reservations about the...intended...make o...U...t. Colin,...he made m...e s...c...r...eech

He...made...Civillian...s...in...Panama,...under his..."veil of silence"...be part of the BS...machine that made...love...t...o...the Highway of Death, bulldozing ...trenches, etc...but that is another issue.


Whoa! Too much information!

Now, you can give him a...soldier who will do anything...you like...to your ass..., I...understand...in that regard...., the flip-side: how do you...do...someone in charge...?

I...a...M...a hell of a...irate...car...

Well, if that's the case, I'm Leaving!

*huffs and puffs back to his trailer*

[/unfair edit]

yes, can't have some one who is internationally held in high regard having anything to do with the Bush administration.

I agree! :)

Ditto. How about a Guiliani/Powell ticket? :)

Yea, that'll be the day - when the wacko evangelical right accepts two pro-choice candidates as standard bearers for the GOP. The only reason the Republicans won this election is because Karl Rove so effectively used the gay marriage issue to turn out the conservative religious faithful.

The Republicans will be running the "be afraid, be very afraid" campaign for years to come.

Besides, as a liberal Democrat who was mildly impressed with Powell at one point I would never vote for him now after he lied and whored for the Bushies at the U.N. I think he knew the invasion in Iraq was wrong all along, he knew Saddam was never a threat, and he knew there were no WMDs, but he sold out.

No character.

I dunno. On the one hand, I think Powell would be less disasterous if he won than Jeb Bush or whoever. On the other hand, I think the Democrats would have less of a chance of beating him.