NationStates Jolt Archive

What would it be like?

Exactly like this one

What would it be like?

There was one once, but He got ticked off and destroyed it. :)

There'd be mass chaos in the world. Homosexuals would be practicing their craft in schools, rape and murder cases would explode. It would be one craptacular world.

I would imagine that most people would "not be afraid" to commit crimes.

There'd be mass chaos in the world. Homosexuals would be practicing their craft in schools, rape and murder cases would explode. It would be one craptacular world.
Cause like he/she is doing something about it now? (um as far as I can tell even in the bible he don’t deal with it till the afterlife)

If they are not doing anything about it now in the real world (free choice and all) then how is the non existence of thus fore stated god supposed to effect anything here?

Boring.

Probably Anarchy.

Probably no culture either.

Exactly like this one
Very astute observation :D

Heaven

There would probably still be slavery. Religious nuts would still look to some
other source to lead them, because they lack the will to lead themselves.

There would probably still be slavery. Religious nuts would still look to some
other source to lead them, because they lack the will to lead themselves.
Um they probably just would make one up (cough assuming they haven’t made one up already) :D
And nobody would be the wiser

There'd be mass chaos in the world. Homosexuals would be practicing their craft in schools, rape and murder cases would explode. It would be one craptacular world.
LOL!

I would imagine that most people would "not be afraid" to commit crimes.
People are "afraid" to commit crimes now? Doesn't look that way to me.

I'm living in it.

People are "afraid" to commit crimes now? Doesn't look that way to me.
Agreed ... only thing holding a lot of people in place are social mores

Agreed ... only thing holding a lot of people in place are social mores
Or, in the case of places where carrying guns is legal, threat of having your head blown off.

Or, in the case of places where carrying guns is legal, threat of having your head blown off.
Yes that too :p

:confused:
I have a very hard time imagining a world with god....

As an atheist, I believe we are living in a world without a God. However, I think the point of the thread is, what would this world be like without organised religion. Frankly, I think that humans need a set of codified beliefs to give meaning to events in our lives. Whether that belief system is religious, political, scientific or economic, there will always be those who use it as a crutch, without actively critiquing or examining that belief. Others will examine and critique it without end, but it still becomes a purpose in their lives. As well, there will always be people who exploit others' belief systems in order to give themselves power. Even if we had some way to ensure that no belief system ever became organised, it would still exist. Humans are believers...even I, as an atheist, have certain beliefs that are central to my existence. That these beliefs are not religious make them no less a part of who I am. If we tried to take that away from humans, we would fail.

Meh, probably less religious holidays.

Meh, probably less religious holidays.
Lets just call it winter break with lots of drinking to go around (and easter can just me molded into spring break ... and so on and so forth)

o/~ Imagine all the people, living life as one, woohoo-- o/~

couldnt resist ;)
although i think organized religion has major flaws, i dunno if a world without it would be much better

Can you imagine a world without a God?


I can imagine quite a lot of things.

...

...

...

Hehe. Boobies :)

I believe the correct term to a godless world would be 'Utopia'. More people wouldn't have religion taking up some of their time so they could use that time to learn more about the real world (science). We'd learn to cope with each other with the understanding that we're all equal. Scientists could focus on their work instead of being hindered/persuaded by archaic beliefs or having to answer to godbelieving people. Religiously-influenced political systems wouldn't exist and the world would be free of religious people trying to change cultures because they disagree.

Oh, and the sex would be MUCH better!

I can imagine quite a lot of things.

...

...

...

Hehe. Boobies :)
AHHH can you imagine a world without boobies :p

I'm living in one.

There would be no morality source, so crimes, if there were any, would be different, and the world would be a very different place. Even if you are an Atheist, your views on morality are spawned from religion.

There would be no morality source, so crimes, if there were any, would be different, and the world would be a very different place. Even if you are an Atheist, your views on morality are spawned from religion.
Lol they dident say no religion ... just no god

and maybe religion was spawned from our moralities? its possible

AHHH can you imagine a world without boobies :p

That´s why I said "a lot of things" and not "everything". ;)

That´s why I said "a lot of things" and not "everything". ;)
I know that is where I draw the line too

Can you imagine a world without God?

First you have to imagine God.

What would it be like?

Shirley yur joking. Dont call me Shirley. (another time waster)
WHERE ARE THE MODs?

Shirley yur joking. Dont call me Shirley. (another time waster)
WHERE ARE THE MODs?
Doing what they are supposed to be doing

Allowing free speech(to a point). Do you have a problem with the possibility of no god?
*btw it really does sound like you are crying for a parent lol

muhc more technologically advanced and probably more peaceful

considering most hatred and aggressiong stems from religious reasons

though there would sitll be war, there are some people that just hate people -_- but a world without religion would be nice

What would it be like?
I live there.

(I'm an atheist-leaning agnostic)

That actually irratates me when people say that without god there would be no morality. Morality is simple the values you have in life as an individual. I do not go out and rape and kill not because of threat of hell or because god said it was wrong. I do not take these action because I treat others how I would like to be treated. It has nothing to do with god.

What would it be like?


great... no jihad.. no crusades.. no religious clashes.. no more leaders using religion as tool to blind and guide the people, even to war.. no "church and state" problems.. no taking everything that is not mentioned in any holy books to be a sin and must not be tolerated or destoryed etc. ..my *god* it would be a far better world..

(unless we all decide to become buddhist (sp?) :)

What would it be like?

There'd probably be a lot fewer trolls.

well, lets think. this world had huge divides between the riches to the poors, terror, wars, coruptness, jenocide, racism, facism, nazism, dictators, hunger, sickness, disasters, pullution, stupidity, evilness, crime, hateness, sadness and rial-madrid's soccer club.
so, if god isn't sadist, idiot or stupid(and let's hope he isn't), this is already world without god!
by the way, even is briliant idea to have seen in different way to all religion, was stupidity (if he didn't do it in propose).

well, lets think. this world had huge divides between the riches to the poors, terror, wars, coruptness, jenocide, racism, facism, nazism, dictators, hunger, sickness, disasters, pullution, stupidity, evilness, crime, hateness, sadness and rial-madrid's soccer club.
so, if god isn't sadist, idiot or stupid(and let's hope he isn't), this is already world without god!
by the way, even is briliant idea to have seen in different way to all religion, was stupidity (if he didn't do it in propose).

mayb all these things are present because he would rather be a recissive figure in the universe. maybe it was all planed. or maybe he dont care, lol :)

muhc more technologically advanced and probably more peaceful

considering most hatred and aggressiong stems from religious reasons

though there would sitll be war, there are some people that just hate people -_- but a world without religion would be nice
I disagree adamantly that most hatred stems "from religious reasons". I think there is more from racism, classism, all the "us"-isms, than there is from religion.

mayb all these things are present because he would rather be a recissive figure in the universe. maybe it was all planed. or maybe he dont care, lol :)
If that is like that, we need a change.
who want to be one of the cadidates in the elections for new god? super powers, unlimited teritory, many believers, and enternal live included.

I don't have to imagine a world without a god. I'm on one.

It would be exactly the same it is now.

Meh, probably less religious holidays.

Wow me thinks someone just gave me a reason to believe

Like it is now, except less people would turn over new leafs and more people would resort to criminal activities.

Oh, and things like incest will be okay. Seeing as how religon bases moral standards historically.

There'd be mass chaos in the world. Homosexuals would be practicing their craft in schools, rape and murder cases would explode. It would be one craptacular world.

They'd be less pedofile priest to touch young boys. Rape and murder cases are already exploding. It is a craptacular world....and as for the homosexuals....OH LORD!! THE GAY IS HERE! RUN FOR THE FUCKING HILL.

Grow up.

To answer the question. We're in a world without "God" but if no one bothered with "God" alot of people would be better off, and insecure people who need to talk to an imaginary character would just find some nice appliances to talk to...possibly in a bath tub.

Of course we cannot imagine a world without God. That is why we invented Him.

Of course we cannot imagine a world without God. That is why we invented Him.
Oooh very good very good.

I was gonna go with the *looks around* "There ya go" approach but appluase for you.

It's harder for me to imagine a world with God.

Two options:

1) Exactly like this one.

2) A world where evil does not exist. At all (Remember: God created Satan).

A world without God, or a world without the belief in God? As it stands right now, there is no hard, solid, undeniable proof that God does or does not exist. Quite frankly, it does not matter whether or not God, Jesus, Allah, J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, or Eris exist. What matters is that there are people that believe they exist, people that believe in the messages and beliefs attached to those beings.

If God, as the Christians and Jews believe in, does not exist, then that does not preclude that other gods don't exist. If there are no supernatural beings guiding all of creation, then perhaps the scientists and their theories are correct.

In the days of Greece and Rome (before the coming of Catholocism), they held to religious beliefs that many consider mere myths and stories today. Whether or not those gods did or did not exist does not change the fact that belief in them, and worship of them had it's impact on their society, and continues to affect us to this day.

Since God is a belief, there is no way to know what it would be like with or without a God.

It is our respect for each other and our community that keeps us safe. The ones without the respect are the one committing the crimes.

Slender Goddess

There certainly are some good threads on today.
As per "God", as in "God" in caps and probably some kind of Judeo-Christian amalgamation (note:Old Testament / New Testament God = VERY DIFFERENT apparent temperment) i think it's fairly easy to "imagine" a world without that one (in physical form) since that God has since, according to "scripture" recessed from meddling with anyone's course of action directly, overtly, and without refute. Instead it kinda sits in the back of the FBI office while Scully explains herself, before being introduced to Mulder.
As per a "god" w/out caps or specific alignment, one first finds appropriate definition (may sound chincy but i find few actually have many definitions for anything IRL, NS being a rare exception)
and then .....
OED : superhuman being or spirit WORSHIPPED as having power over nature, human fortunes, etc - image, idol, animal or other object WORSHIPPED as divine ....
WEBSTER'S : Any of various beings conceived of as supernatural AND IMMORTAL - a person or thing deified .....

and for clarity, DEITY:
OED : god or goddess .... divine status, quality, or nature ....
WEBSTER'S : the state of being a god .... god or goddess ....

DIVINE ....?:

OED : Of, from, or like god or "God". More than humanly excellent. - also, discover by guessing, intuition ....
WEBSTER'S : Of, like, or from "God" or a god. (wow!) Holy. Devoted to "God". Supremely great, good (note: "good" from same root as "god")


So as best as i can tell from that small pool, it takes some imagination anyway to make definition along these lines in the first place. Ineffability, tautology and all that ....

My personal take, along the lines of the not-railroading "God" idea, is that without a god of some sort being the imposition of a combination of order and intent than the very next entity on the totem would get its chance to do as it felt it needed to by its nature until some greater consequence of said intent came to pass and again another god were to do what it needed to do. The many headed hydra of a god mentality is as good as its check and balance and not its supposed supremacy. Moreover, i would think that without an EXTERNAL PERCEIVED (power perceived = power achieved) POWER aligning entities without internal fortitude than said entities would do only what is natural for them to gain the upper hand and serve their interests best. Demonstrations of personal interests turned domination (hah! hard to get around the tautology) aren't sparse or hard to find in the human world and some of that could be an issue of "conscience" or even, second-guessing one's actions and consequence. I "imagine" that judgment and understanding of cause and effect are important here, summated in things as hopeful as the "scientific method" and the like.
That's as far as my rather limited imagination can take me in the idea of not having "God".
Maybe more, but not right now.

What would it be like?


I should imagine it would be just like the one we live in.

As of course what you're describing in your question corrosponds directly to the real world.

Seeing as how religon bases moral standards historically.
I've always been taught that morals have arisen through rules that have been established through group of humans living together to allow cohesive living conditions and to improve their survival.

Exactly like this one

I concur.

Of course we cannot imagine a world without God. That is why we invented Him.

nice one

I've always been taught that morals have arisen through rules that have been established through group of humans living together to allow cohesive living conditions and to improve their survival.

Thats just because you've been taught well by reasonable people.

You need to remember that this clown is a religious fundementalist.

He's practically a barbarian.

What would it be like?
what lets you think this world has a "god" ? ;)
it would be just like this world. like today. no difference.

What would it be like?

Err... we're living in it. Even if he weren't real, there'd still be some sort of belief... and morals. It doesn't matter if they do exist or not. Religion has been corrupted by leaders to keep their people in line.

Being an Agnostic, I wont believe in god until I see some proof.

I'm not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, so I apologise if this is a repeat of another post.

Without a God, the earth would be a formless void.

I'm not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, so I apologise if this is a repeat of another post.

Without a God, the earth would be a formless void.
That's your belief darlin. Go say it into a mirror and you'll find someone who might be interested in listening :)

"So you don't think "let there be light" could be a scientific metaphor for letthere be light?"
"Ugh no...god just went click"

That's your belief darlin. Go say it into a mirror and you'll find someone who might be interested in listening :)

"So you don't think "let there be light" could be a scientific metaphor for letthere be light?"
"Ugh no...god just went click"

And that's your belief, you arrogant prick. I'm tired of all you goddamn athiests rolling your virtual eyes and saying "We'll let those religion nuts believe what they want while I live in the real world".

Who the hell are you to say that the real world has not got a real God in it? You look around and say "This is the world. Where's the God? I can't see him" and yet have no proof at all to say he doesn't exist. So shut your mouths and stop forcing your beliefs on others, like you say religious people do.

Yes, I know there is no definitive proof to say that he exists either, and since this means the argument can never be fully settled, you have no rights to scorn the beliefs of others.

The pendulum swings both ways, unfortunately. Plenty of Religious people, not just Christians, tend to look down on those who don't follow their way of thinking. I do agree, though, that the absence of evidence is not evidence either way, in and of itself. I tend to respect the beliefs of others, as I long ago gave up the inner debate as to whether or not there is a God. I prefere to believe in a God. Like many others, my idea of God reflects my personal values and how I interpret my scripture of choice.

And that's your belief, you arrogant prick. I'm tired of all you goddamn athiests rolling your virtual eyes and saying "We'll let those religion nuts believe what they want while I live in the real world".

Who the hell are you to say that the real world has not got a real God in it? You look around and say "This is the world. Where's the God? I can't see him" and yet have no proof at all to say he doesn't exist. So shut your mouths and stop forcing your beliefs on others, like you say religious people do.

Yes, I know there is no definitive proof to say that he exists either, and since this means the argument can never be fully settled, you have no rights to scorn the beliefs of others.
Ah ha ha ha. Let me go one step further. Where is the God? We're all living in the real world, you just feel safer with a fantasy attached to it honey :)

And that's your belief, you arrogant prick. I'm tired of all you goddamn athiests rolling your virtual eyes and saying "We'll let those religion nuts believe what they want while I live in the real world".

so you complain about realistic and intelligent people who are beeing tolerant ?
lol funny :rolleyes:

Not to provoke anyone, but as a philosophy student, I'd like to throw a spanner in the works:

There's no proof that there isn't a little mouse running on a treadmill in the centre of the earth, which keeps it spinning, with the aid of gravity.
There's no proff that there is, but there's none that there isn't either.

They'd be less pedofile priest to touch young boys. Rape and murder cases are already exploding. It is a craptacular world....and as for the homosexuals....OH LORD!! THE GAY IS HERE! RUN FOR THE FUCKING HILL.

Grow up.

To answer the question. We're in a world without "God" but if no one bothered with "God" alot of people would be better off, and insecure people who need to talk to an imaginary character would just find some nice appliances to talk to...possibly in a bath tub.


The Gay? Is that some sort of homosexual superhero?

The Gay? Is that some sort of homosexual superhero?

Ha no no sorry, I've heard some fundamentalist speak of homosexuals like it's a disease, thus saying we've got "The Gay". Haha homosexual superhero, aren't they all gay. I mean who else would wear skin tight spandex and still look good.

Not to provoke anyone, but as a philosophy student, I'd like to throw a spanner in the works:

There's no proof that there isn't a little mouse running on a treadmill in the centre of the earth, which keeps it spinning, with the aid of gravity.
There's no proff that there is, but there's none that there isn't either.
As a philosophy student you should be able to present some conclusion. A little mouse would die due to the heat. Just like creationalists weak ended debates usually die in the heat of fact and science. But if your going to take that approach, we can once again find that it is most likely not possible for the mouse to live. Use a better metaphor maybe.

Ha no no sorry, I've heard some fundamentalist speak of homosexuals like it's a disease, thus saying we've got "The Gay". Haha homosexual superhero, aren't they all gay. I mean who else would wear skin tight spandex and still look good.

This is a good point.

i think the real question is why anybody would want to imagine a world with God. with all the wonder, mystery, beauty, and glory of the real world, why would anybody have the time or desire to fabricate imaginary friends that take all the fun out of discovery and exploration?

As a philosophy student you should be able to present some conclusion. A little mouse would die due to the heat. Just like creationalists weak ended debates usually die in the heat of fact and science. But if your going to take that approach, we can once again find that it is most likely not possible for the mouse to live. Use a better metaphor maybe.
Hehe, I was waiting for that response :p
Luckily for us, it's a magic mouse which never suffers from fatiguea dn is immortal.
And there's where the entire suspension of disbelief which religions claim is required as 'faith' go in.

I'm not preaching, believe whatever you like, I believe in multiverses, so I'm not one to judge :)

i think the real question is why anybody would want to imagine a world with God. with all the wonder, mystery, beauty, and glory of the real world, why would anybody have the time or desire to fabricate imaginary friends that take all the fun out of discovery and exploration?
they probably lacking self-confidence. thinking there isnt some father-like figure watching over every step they take could make some people afraid that the actions they take could lead to some consequences they later have to deal with themselves and not their "god"?

And that's your belief, you arrogant prick. I'm tired of all you goddamn athiests rolling your virtual eyes and saying "We'll let those religion nuts believe what they want while I live in the real world".

Who the hell are you to say that the real world has not got a real God in it? You look around and say "This is the world. Where's the God? I can't see him" and yet have no proof at all to say he doesn't exist. So shut your mouths and stop forcing your beliefs on others, like you say religious people do.

Yes, I know there is no definitive proof to say that he exists either, and since this means the argument can never be fully settled, you have no rights to scorn the beliefs of others.

"There's no proof he doesn't exist" is a pretty weak argument.
There is no proof to say he doesn't, that's true
but then there's plenty of proof that the bible is full of contradictions.

Ergo if god exists, the chrisitians don't represent him properly

And that's your belief, you arrogant prick. I'm tired of all you goddamn athiests rolling your virtual eyes and saying "We'll let those religion nuts believe what they want while I live in the real world".

Who the hell are you to say that the real world has not got a real God in it? You look around and say "This is the world. Where's the God? I can't see him" and yet have no proof at all to say he doesn't exist. So shut your mouths and stop forcing your beliefs on others, like you say religious people do.

Yes, I know there is no definitive proof to say that he exists either, and since this means the argument can never be fully settled, you have no rights to scorn the beliefs of others.

Is this an example of a Christian "Turning the other cheek"?

they probably lacking selfconscience (sp?).
self-confidence?

Yes, I know there is no definitive proof to say that he exists either, and since this means the argument can never be fully settled, you have no rights to scorn the beliefs of others.
there is no definitive proof that magical invisible tigers aren't surrounding us at all times and controlling our actions with mind rays shot from their stripes. however, we don't consider it unusual to show scorn for a person who claims that such is the case.

self-confidence?
yes thats the word. damn english, why dont you guys learn our good old german in school :D

Yeah, I can, there'd be a lot less persecution. Or at least a lot less justification for that persection.

yes thats the word. damn english, why dont you guys learn our good old german in school :D
I only wanted to do 2 languages, so I took French as my choice language, with English and Irish I had to take them. And I only took French cos my sister teaches it :)

yes thats the word. damn english, why dont you guys learn our good old german in school :D

Because that would mean having a logical and consistant language, and we wouldn't want that. We have only just come round to the idea of using base 10 for a system of measurement.

Because that would mean having a logical and consistant language, and we wouldn't want that. We have only just come round to the idea of using base 10 for a system of measurement.
What is this system you speak of...... :p

I only wanted to do 2 languages, so I took French as my choice language, with English and Irish I had to take them. And I only took French cos my sister teaches it :)
when i was in school, i had German (no surprise here, look where i life), English and could choose between French, Nederlands and Social. French was said to be Ultra-Hard and the Nederlands teacher was said to be gay so i took Social. havent regret it, was nice.
i thought irish was an accent, and no real language :confused:

Wether god exists or not, It was religion that began civilisation. The striving to impress and improve. The Morals that prevent society from crumbling. Family Values (That bush abused to win the election), and many other reasons that I can't be bothered to explain.

The fact is: no religion = Civilisation never existing.

Wether god exists or not, It was religion that began civilisation. The striving to impress and improve. The Morals that prevent society from crumbling. Family Values (That bush abused to win the election), and many other reasons that I can't be bothered to explain.

The fact is: no religion = Civilisation never existing.
ROFLMAO. the idea that civilization is a product of religion, rather than the opposite, is just about the funniest thing i have heard all week.

and as for family values, are you aware that Bible Belters have among the highest rates of divorce in the country? are you aware that increased religiosity is correlated with domestic abuse? did you know that the highest murder rates in the country are also found in the states with the highest percentages of people reporting that they are "extremely religious"?

ROFLMAO. the idea that civilization is a product of religion, rather than the opposite, is just about the funniest thing i have heard all week.

Think about it-many of todays laws are based on the 10 commandments. Had the bible never been written (A masterpeice of fiction), then there would be anarchy.

Think about it-many of todays laws are based on the 10 commandments.
only 3 of the 10 Commandments are law in America. 30% is failing grade in every class i have ever taken.

Had the bible never been written (A masterpeice of fiction), then there would be anarchy.
there wasn't anarchy for the thousands of years before the Bible, and there are numerous civilizations (the Chinese spring to mind) that have had thriving civilizations for millenia without Christianity.

and as for family values, are you aware that Bible Belters have among the highest rates of divorce in the country? are you aware that increased religiosity is correlated with domestic abuse? did you know that the highest murder rates in the country are also found in the states with the highest percentages of people reporting that they are "extremely religious"?

They're not christians. They're abusing a rule that was started by Henry VIII, allowing divorce.

True christians would be able to follow the bible perfectly, including the stuff that contradicts the other stuff.

They're not christians. They're abusing a rule that was started by Henry VIII, allowing divorce.

True christians would be able to follow the bible perfectly, including the stuff that contradicts the other stuff.
so here we are at the crux of it. you don't think RELIGION is the key to morality, just one particular religion. wait, let me guess, it just HAPPENS to be your religion, right?

I'm an agnostic.

All religions seem to focus on morals and behaviour. Perhaps I am wrong, But to be honest I know little of religion.

I surrender the argument like a gentleman. I guess you won. ;)

i thought irish was an accent, and no real language :confused::)

There is a language of Gaelic Irish, which is the official language of the nation, although the vast majority of the population speak English. Gaelic Irish (Gaeilge) is only spoken daily by about 30,000 people.

Gaeilge's a beautiful lnaguage, very poetic and so much less......efficient and pragmatic thna English, but very beautiful.

And Religion did not beget civilisation.
Animals live in pakcs and herds, and they have no religious element to it.
Civilisation is an over-complexified herd, while the dissidents are hunted in packs.

I'm an agnostic.

yet you believe that Christianity is essential to morality? so you are deliberately immoral, then?

I surrender the argument like a gentleman. I guess you won. ;)
wow, that was fast! thanks for being polite about it, though, surrendering with grace is a rare ability in these parts.

only 3 of the 10 Commandments are law in America. 30% is failing grade in every class i have ever taken.

there wasn't anarchy for the thousands of years before the Bible, and there are numerous civilizations (the Chinese spring to mind) that have had thriving civilizations for millenia without Christianity.
Yes, but not without religion.

yet you believe that Christianity is essential to morality? so you are deliberately immoral, then?

Being imorral although wrong, is fun.

wow, that was fast! thanks for being polite about it, though, surrendering with grace is a rare ability in these parts.

Why thank you. ;)

Intresting factoid. The bit of the brain which when stimulated gives you religious visions, origonated at the same time as civilisation started.
Imperial Navy might have a point, although I think that believing in a god, making people more pliably probably led to civilisation.

Also it is highly unlikely a civilisation which believed in widespread murder and criminal acts would exist long enough to spread its ideas. The 10 commandments probably helped propagate the idea of the religion as the civilisation they lived in was more coherent and dissent was impossible.

"I want your ass"
"Well, you can't!"
"Why not?"
"God said"
"oh...but...."
"Ah, ah ah, God said."

Please Christians, stop saying you invented morality and then put the ten commandments. We all know you stole them from Hammurabi.

Besides, Religion seems pretty cheap as many atheists can attest. I wouldn't doubt that humanity could fill any precieved vacuum from a lack of religion.

I follow a variant of Rousseau's Social Contract theory. Human beings function best when they are in a large, inter-dependant society, and every society needs rules to function. Over time, rules that are in place for practical reasons (e.g. killing another person means one less person to help hunt the mammoth, which means potential loss of food in the comming months) were transformed into moral dos and don'ts (killing other people is wrong). Belief in a divine figure (or figures) was the perfect medium to transmit ethical truths to the society.

So when the question is asked: what would the world be like without God, I answer: Out ancestors would behave similarly, but we would also have to find an alternate medium to transmit our moral codes. I don't know what that system would have been, but rest assured that somehow they would have found a way.

In today's world, however, I firmly believe that religion is an obstacle that we will one day overcome. Religion served it's purpose: it's taught us moral values (despite the contadictions in the religious texts). Humanity's next great step in our moral evolution is to recognize the impact of religion, but ultimately give up fearful worship in exchange for a much more compassionate moral code: Secular Humanism.

Civilizations inherently seek out servitude of a higher being;
whether it is an unseen being, a golden idol, or their kings & pharoahs.

Every culture has sought for the existance of god(s) throughout time,
but if they never had this belief what would have been their outcome?

Servitude to a higher being is ultimately what our ignorant religious nuts
seek. And without the idea of a god in heaven, they would pursue a god
on earth.

there is no definitive proof that magical invisible tigers aren't surrounding us at all times and controlling our actions with mind rays shot from their stripes. however, we don't consider it unusual to show scorn for a person who claims that such is the case.

I guess I should have known I would cop some flak over that one, so let me explain myself better. There are examples of God's prescense on this earth. There are those visions that appear on walls and in churches that people can't explain. There are scientific studies about how life can't naturally exist (see Intelligent Design). In this respect, I choose to believe there is a God, which is different than telling you all that there is a God.

The point of my first post wasn't to try and convince any steadfast atheists that a God exists, since that is an exercise in futility. I was just trying to say that whenever somebody states faith in their religion, they should not be ridiculed on these forums for doing so. Having people say that people who believe in a God are living in a fantasy have nothing to back this up with. So stop trying to force your opinion of "no God existing" on other people.

My original post was in support of tolerance. It was in support of you people being tolerant of me.

I guess I should have known I would cop some flak over that one, so let me explain myself better. There are examples of God's prescense on this earth. There are those visions that appear on walls and in churches that people can't explain. There are scientific studies about how life can't naturally exist (see Intelligent Design). In this respect, I choose to believe there is a God, which is different than telling you all that there is a God.

Intelligent design is regarded as being complete rubbish by well over 90% of biologist working at the graduate level or higher. Mystic visions are just a product of your imagination and your upbringing, and your brain misfiring. If you want to believe it's god, great for you, but don't try to support your belief by saying there is proof (see Hitchikers guide to the galaxy), otherwise your God disappears in a poof of logic.

The point of my first post wasn't to try and convince any steadfast atheists that a God exists, since that is an exercise in futility. I was just trying to say that whenever somebody states faith in their religion, they should not be ridiculed on these forums for doing so. Having people say that people who believe in a God are living in a fantasy have nothing to back this up with. So stop trying to force your opinion of "no God existing" on other people.
Fine if you stop trying to.
My original post was in support of tolerance. It was in support of you people being tolerant of me.

Stop trying to abuse science to "Prove" your god exists. Stop taking small children and telling them about your religion, until they have the ability to question their belief. Stop trying to manipulate the democratic and legal system so that it reflects only your beliefs. Stop attacking and persecuting secular ideas that threaten you (Copernicus, Darwin, Freud). Stop judging others, and stop getting me out of bed to listen to your crap at my doorstep on a Sunday morning. Then I might let you get on with talking to your invisible friend.

AHHH can you imagine a world without boobies :p

I'm living it at the moment :(((

Dont know if anybody noticed it...but we are already living in a world without God.

All "things" that happen occur by the actions of mankind themselves (not incl. acts of nature like rain and wind :P)
The illusion that God somehow meddles in all affairs no matter how big or small is ridiculous.

Its far more likely that, if there is a God, that at best it can help people to deal with what happens to them or in their surroundings...or simply put it can "guide" but it doesnt interfere in what happens or not in ur life. (or everybody elses for that matter)

Which would explain why people die anyways at the hands of murderers (and such) whether they call out to God or not.(faith or no faith)

And plz dont start with the "oh but if someone is murdered then God must have intended that to happen"...cause who would want a God like that anyways. (something u know is wrong doesnt become a "right" all of a sudden. :rolleyes: )

Anyways just some of my thoughts on it.


Edit: a world without boobs...*shudder* the horror the HORROR!!! :eek:

There are examples of God's prescense on this earth.
There are those visions that appear on walls and in churches that people can't explain.

actually, i am unaware of a single case in which there was not a perfectly reasonable scientific explanation. feel free to find one, but in all the cases i have read about it's mostly just an "ink blot" situation; people look at a stain on a window or a blur of mold on a wall and their minds create order from the disorder.

There are scientific studies about how life can't naturally exist (see Intelligent Design).

no, there aren't. there are scientific studies showing that certain mechanisms won't work to bring about life, but science has already established many possible theories about how life may have naturally come about. when one such theory is disproven it does not mean that life automatically must have been the result of an intelligent designer.


In this respect, I choose to believe there is a God, which is different than telling you all that there is a God.

your choice is your business, but it is no more grounded in fact than the belief in the invisible magic tigers. there is no more evidence for your belief than there is for the tigers and their mind rays. i'm not saying you need to abandon your faith because of that, but i am saying that you shouldn't get all affronted when people show contempt for your superstition.


The point of my first post wasn't to try and convince any steadfast atheists that a God exists, since that is an exercise in futility.

true. happily, i am not an atheist, so our dialogue could be more productive.


I was just trying to say that whenever somebody states faith in their religion, they should not be ridiculed on these forums for doing so.

personal attacks are prohibited on these forums. however, i have no problem with BELIEFS being ridiculed, if those beliefs warrant it. i ridicule racists, homophobes, and people who believe the world is flat. (of course, i also ridicule the views that i agree with, but that's just my sense of humor.) you are free to ridicule my beliefs, because i am confident enough in them that the ridicule of some annonymous stranger on an internet forum is not going to do me any deep psychological trauma.


Having people say that people who believe in a God are living in a fantasy have nothing to back this up with.

actually, they have all current scientific and psychological data on the subject. there is ample evidence that human religions are contructs of the human mind, invented by humans, and that the probability of any of these religions actually being correct is virtually nonexistent due to logical falacies contained within those religions.

the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven by science, so the choice to believe in God is just as irrational as the choice to believe there cannot be any God, and thus i would say the choice to invent a personal view of God based on mere human experiences and perceptions constitutes wishful thinking in the extreme.


So stop trying to force your opinion of "no God existing" on other people.

i don't hold that view, and thus am not trying to force it on anybody.


My original post was in support of tolerance. It was in support of you people being tolerant of me.
hahahahahahaha, yeah, that's the kind of tolerance most people support: the kind that protects themselves. well, don't worry: we tolerate you. in fact, nobody is flaming you or attacking you personally. however, we have every right to attack your beliefs and to challenge your superstitions, and if you don't like that then you probably shouldn't be posting on threads that debate religion and the belief in God.

Edit: a world without boobs...*shudder* the horror the HORROR!!! :eek:

Its not fun..take my word for it!

This is an intersting debate... do people need the kind of guidance that religion gives (if you can call a few thousand year old stories "guidance") or if it didn't exist, would they follow anything else that told them how they should live their lives? OR (and i may be being a little bold here) would people simply get a grip and live by their own morals without being escorted, like sheep, into the hands of corrupt religious leaders who, with their "power" initiate terrorism (IRA, Al'qaida, etc etc etc) in the name of religions that are supposed to be peaceful!? A world without religion could swing one of two ways, it could be just as bad but where the people find someone else to "follow" that causes widespread hate and discrimination, or, it might just be ace... but hey, surely not! that would be rediculous....... :headbang:

actually, i am unaware of a single case in which there was not a perfectly reasonable scientific explanation. feel free to find one, but in all the cases i have read about it's mostly just an "ink blot" situation; people look at a stain on a window or a blur of mold on a wall and their minds create order from the disorder.

no, there aren't. there are scientific studies showing that certain mechanisms won't work to bring about life, but science has already established many possible theories about how life may have naturally come about. when one such theory is disproven it does not mean that life automatically must have been the result of an intelligent designer.


your choice is your business, but it is no more grounded in fact than the belief in the invisible magic tigers. there is no more evidence for your belief than there is for the tigers and their mind rays. i'm not saying you need to abandon your faith because of that, but i am saying that you shouldn't get all affronted when people show contempt for your superstition.


true. happily, i am not an atheist, so our dialogue could be more productive.


personal attacks are prohibited on these forums. however, i have no problem with BELIEFS being ridiculed, if those beliefs warrant it. i ridicule racists, homophobes, and people who believe the world is flat. (of course, i also ridicule the views that i agree with, but that's just my sense of humor.) you are free to ridicule my beliefs, because i am confident enough in them that the ridicule of some annonymous stranger on an internet forum is not going to do me any deep psychological trauma.


actually, they have all current scientific and psychological data on the subject. there is ample evidence that human religions are contructs of the human mind, invented by humans, and that the probability of any of these religions actually being correct is virtually nonexistent due to logical falacies contained within those religions.

the existence of God cannot be proven or disproven by science, so the choice to believe in God is just as irrational as the choice to believe there cannot be any God, and thus i would say the choice to invent a personal view of God based on mere human experiences and perceptions constitutes wishful thinking in the extreme.


i don't hold that view, and thus am not trying to force it on anybody.


hahahahahahaha, yeah, that's the kind of tolerance most people support: the kind that protects themselves. well, don't worry: we tolerate you. in fact, nobody is flaming you or attacking you personally. however, we have every right to attack your beliefs and to challenge your superstitions, and if you don't like that then you probably shouldn't be posting on threads that debate religion and the belief in God.

Very well said Bottle!!! :)

Marry me!!! I'm missing something in my life! LOL :)

That actually irratates me when people say that without god there would be no morality. Morality is simple the values you have in life as an individual. I do not go out and rape and kill not because of threat of hell or because god said it was wrong. I do not take these action because I treat others how I would like to be treated. It has nothing to do with god.

Damn Straight! If only people could grasp this....

from king elmo the great come and look at my country :sniper: its based in the federal comonwelth society