NationStates Jolt Archive

It occured to me that my attempts at convincing creationists that evolution actually exists and advocating my moral and political beliefs is kind of like what Christian missionaries do... Does anyone else agree with that, or are the two not relative? Or is it not actually as bad as it seems to be to me?

You're right - you may be doing what they do. As for if it is 'bad' or not, I don't see how it matters either way. You both feel the same way about what you believe, so there's no reason to say it is a 'bad' viewpoint - just different.

You're right - you may be doing what they do. As for if it is 'bad' or not, I don't see how it matters either way. You both feel the same way about what you believe, so there's no reason to say it is a 'bad' viewpoint - just different.
I think that it's bad because I dislike them and their attempts at converting others to their religion. I don't want to be doing the same thing with a different subject--it would lower my standing in my own eyes.

It occured to me that my attempts at convincing creationists that evolution actually exists and advocating my moral and political beliefs is kind of like what Christian missionaries do... Does anyone else agree with that, or are the two not relative? Or is it not actually as bad as it seems to be to me?

No, that sounds like a fair comparison to me. Civilization tend to trump barbarianism; intelectuals sharing ideas often accomplish this. With enough talk and enough open minds, better ideas will outlast and outweigh lesser ideas. I suppose you could consider the comparison invalid if you consider Missionaries to be evil and corrupt arms of the Church, as those people would be HINDERING society. However, most missionaries (Jesuits & Franciscans) weren't really like that. The Dominicans were the ones busy beating people up, but they rarely did "missionary" work.

No, that sounds like a fair comparison to me. Civilization tend to trump barbarianism; intelectuals sharing ideas often accomplish this. With enough talk and enough open minds, better ideas will outlast and outweigh lesser ideas. I suppose you could consider the comparison invalid if you consider Missionaries to be evil and corrupt arms of the Church, as those people would be HINDERING society. However, most missionaries (Jesuits & Franciscans) weren't really like that. The Dominicans were the ones busy beating people up, but they rarely did "missionary" work.
Hmm...I had never considered it that way. I'll give that some thought, it's quite a reasonable argument.

Hmm...I had never considered it that way. I'll give that some thought, it's quite a reasonable argument.

Really? Cool! That's more open-minded than I'm used to. Defending the Catholic Church is often like pushing a rock up a hill for eternity. :D

I think that it's bad because I dislike them and their attempts at converting others to their religion. I don't want to be doing the same thing with a different subject--it would lower my standing in my own eyes.
No, you aren't doing anything wrong. We live in a free society. We all share a right to let others know our views, and a right to try to get them to agree with us. I'd say go along and try to sway people to your side, just, try to avoid looking upon Christian attempts to do the same as derogatory. Both are equal, and in my view, to try to convince others of your beliefs is a good thing. After all, what harm does either belief set do? I don't see Christianity as an evil force, nor do I see Secularism as evil.

People who hold either belief set tend to view the other side as an enemy, but in reality they are just someone who holds different different beliefs. And it's not like their beliefs are evil, such as Nazism. They're just beliefs.

Expressing and advocating your beliefs does not make you like a Christian missionary. It makes you opinionated. People advocate different ideas all the itme, but that does not mean that they're anything like a Christian missionary. In any case, missionaries, for the most part, have really good intentions. It isn't fair to say that missionaries are bad because of past mistakes. Christian missionaries, specifically, do what they do because they want to spread the love of God to those who are in need. They choose to act on their faith rather than only evangelizing. However, Christians are only human and they do make mistakes, which may cause some to view Christians in a bad light. Regardless, Christian missionaries have great intentions and mean to do good.

Really? Cool! That's more open-minded than I'm used to. Defending the Catholic Church is often like pushing a rock up a hill for eternity. :D
Actually, I need to thank you. Something about the point you made caused me to realise how intolerant and holier-than-thou I was in respect to the Church. I am not quite sure what it was, but I almost physically feel accepting of religion now...I think this is what would be called a revelation, almost an epiphany...

How very odd that such a seemingly innocuous comment would do this to me!

There is nothing wrong with giving someone your time and energy to listen to their opinion, nor is there anything wrong with trying to advance your opinion. It is bad only when you try to invalidate the other person's opinion or they yours.

I believe the more dialog in the world the better informed we all will be. We will never all believe the same thing, though. That is good, otherwise we would never make advances in humanity or science.

Slender Goddess

Creationism is not a scientific argument period. Perhaps some kind of metaphorical sense the idea has some value, but no honest scientist supports creationism. Evolution is like the creationist say, "only a theory" but it is one of the most important and best backed up theories in science. There are likely to be nuances and new discoveries such as Gould's idea of punctuated equilibrium but the general principles are very near irrefutable. This is not the same as arguing a completely ridiculous belief, which although may be deeply held has no rational support.

Creationism is not a scientific argument period. Perhaps some kind of metaphorical sense the idea has some value, but no honest scientist supports creationism. Evolution is like the creationist say, "only a theory" but it is one of the most important and best backed up theories in science. There are likely to be nuances and new discoveries such as Gould's idea of punctuated equilibrium but the general principles are very near irrefutable. This is not the same as arguing a completely ridiculous belief, which although may be deeply held has no rational support.
This thread is not about the rightness of any particular belief, but the morality of trying to convince others of your beliefs. There is a place for your argument and it is perfectly legit. But we really are discussing a different topic.

This thread is not about the rightness of any particular belief, but the morality of trying to convince others of your beliefs. There is a place for your argument and it is perfectly legit. But we really are discussing a different topic.

Accepting creationism would mean rejecting the basic premises of most scientific fields. I think it is a dangerous trend that it is being pushed so heavily as a valid argument. I guess I would say advocating generally accepted scientific arguments is always moral because it keeps us from having witch trials and exorcisms and the like, but when it comes to religious believes which don't directly contradict the cornerstones of modern society than maybe you should not always speak up.

Actually, I need to thank you. Something about the point you made caused me to realise how intolerant and holier-than-thou I was in respect to the Church. I am not quite sure what it was, but I almost physically feel accepting of religion now...I think this is what would be called a revelation, almost an epiphany...

How very odd that such a seemingly innocuous comment would do this to me!

Then it's a good day! :D

to me, if you don't like being preached at, then you shouldn't preach. Whatever the topic is....

Just my $0.02 :)

It occured to me that my attempts at convincing creationists that evolution actually exists and advocating my moral and political beliefs is kind of like what Christian missionaries do... Does anyone else agree with that, or are the two not relative? Or is it not actually as bad as it seems to be to me?

The 2 aren't relative, since evolution comes with logic arguments and scientific evidence, while religion comes with faith.