NationStates Jolt Archive

This thread was made to discuss all the good things going on in Iraq, here, I'll give one good thing. There'll be elections in January. Now it's someone elses turn.

This thread was made to discuss all the good things going on in Iraq, here, I'll give one good thing. There'll be elections in January. Now it's someone elses turn.
Let's call it forced democracy that will elect another government that will have to obey the occupation forces and economic policy as established by Bremer's Orders:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/after/2004/0120ambitions.htm

Also it will be difficult to hold fair elections considering the upheavel in the country.

Hey, you're not doing a very good job at telling the good things. I didn't say tell the truth, I said tell the good things, there's a difference.

Hey, you're not doing a very good job at telling the good things. I didn't say tell the truth, I said tell the good things, there's a difference.
Well if I HAVE to tell about the good things happening in Iraq, then I have nothing to say. :eek:

Well if I HAVE to tell about the good things happening in Iraq, then I have nothing to say. :eek:

Well wait a minute, there has to be good things. Conservatives bitch all the time about how newstations don't show ENOUGH of the good things, so there has to be more than elections in January.

In the fight for Fallujah this week, there were no dessertions by Iraqis on the battlefield, such as in last April. In fact, the imbedded reporters described the Iraqis as some of the bravest soldiers they've seen.

Well that's good news, I wonder why that don't report that in the media. That seems like enough to me to outwiegh the 31 US deaths and the lack of humanitarian aid for Iraqis trapped within the city.

Well that's good news, I wonder why that don't report that in the media. That seems like enough to me to outwiegh the 31 US deaths and the lack of humanitarian aid for Iraqis trapped within the city.
The fighting isn't done yet. It's still a free fire zone, and if any aid worker dies, it'll be a PR disaster. As for the troops dying, that really isn't as high as expected. It just means that the battle was of slightly different nature than the insurgent ambushes. Around the same death rate occured during the invasiion of Iraq, which didn't involve intense urban warfare. Tell me next that US troops are killing Iraqi civillians wantonly, and I won't shed a tear.
Anyhow, I heard the little tidbit on CBS's Sunday broadcast of Face the Nation.

Well lets move on shall we, what else good has happened in Iraq lately?

Well lets move on shall we, what else good has happened in Iraq lately?
The dinar has stabilized, albeit at a much lower level than at its Hussein-era peg.

In the fight for Fallujah this week, there were no dessertions by Iraqis on the battlefield, such as in last April. In fact, the imbedded reporters described the Iraqis as some of the bravest soldiers they've seen.
Got to love those imbedded reporters?

A National Public Radio correspondent embedded with the Marines outside Fallujah reported desertions among the Iraqis. One Iraqi battalion shrunk from over 500 men to 170 over the past two weeks - with 255 members quitting over the weekend, the correspondent said. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld called reports of some Iraqi recruits not showing up to fight ``an isolated problem.''

Next?

Got to love those imbedded reporters?

A National Public Radio correspondent embedded with the Marines outside Fallujah reported desertions among the Iraqis. One Iraqi battalion shrunk from over 500 men to 170 over the past two weeks - with 255 members quitting over the weekend, the correspondent said. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld called reports of some Iraqi recruits not showing up to fight ``an isolated problem.''

Next?
That's why I said that they didn't desert on the battlefied, just a few hundred beforehand. That's far less than any prior major combat situations involving Iraqi troops, don't you agree?

I'm having a hard time understanding the point of this thread. Is the entire subject supposed to be sarcastic, or is it just coming off that way. Anyways, the only good thing I see is that the Iraqui people have stopped killing each other long enough to join forces and kill American soldiers...sounds like a roaring success to me.

What about the well being of the Iraqi people, that's improved overall hasn't it? Don't they live much easier lives know that they don't have to worry about Saddam's brutal regime coming to kill them in the night?

The oil is save and secure.

Also it will be difficult to hold fair elections considering the upheavel in the country.

As Jon Stewart said, "Imagine that, an election where only 40% of the population votes! Oh, wait..."

Basically, my response to that comment is the same. Generally, over half the country doesn't bother to vote anyways. This last election set all kinds of records with an all-time high voter turnout. Normally, however, most people don't vote. Therefore, if a bunch of guerrillas in iraq don't get to go to the polls in January because they are hiding in a cave with bombs going off all around them, I wont care. We don't let criminals vote in this country either. And if half the population votes, we'll be doing well. And if some normal people can't reach a poll, because we couldn't safely set one up in their area, then they have only the terrorists to blame.

What about the well being of the Iraqi people, that's improved overall hasn't it? Don't they live much easier lives know that they don't have to worry about Saddam's brutal regime coming to kill them in the night?
The Kurds do. The rest of the country has mixed opinions. But I'm actually surprised that some in the Sunni triangle have said their life has improved. In any case, I remain optimistic that they'll see dramatic improvement after the pernament Iraqi government comes to power in January of 2006.

We've taken Fallujah!!! Halleujah!!! LOL

One of the most dangerous cities and it's been captured.

That's why I said that they didn't desert on the battlefied, just a few hundred beforehand. That's far less than any prior major combat situations involving Iraqi troops, don't you agree?
I don't agree with anything that is going on over there. However, I do agree with this comment:

The weekend's desertions reportedly left only one fully intact Iraqi unit deployed with the Marines on the outskirts of Fallujah – the 36th Battalion, whose troops were recruited mostly from Kurdish and Shi'ite militia. "If the 36th turns out to be the 'Iraqi face' of the new government in Fallujah," noted one worried administration official, "it'll be seen as another occupation force."

The Kurds and the Shiites against the Sunnis....PERFECT?

What about the well being of the Iraqi people, that's improved overall hasn't it? Don't they live much easier lives know that they don't have to worry about Saddam's brutal regime coming to kill them in the night?
Eh..no. They can't go outside anymore after dark. They could under Saddam.
The power to their homes only works periodicly.(sp) It worked just fine under Saddam. Same for water.
Medical services don't respond in time if at all. In situtaions like a heart attack, broken leg etc...every day stuff. They always came under Saddam.
Women can't go out by themselves anymore because of religouse fanatics unleashed by the US. They only go out in groups. That includes schoolgirls. Non of that under Saddam. And theres probably more.

Well that's good news, I wonder why that don't report that in the media. That seems like enough to me to outwiegh the 31 US deaths and the lack of humanitarian aid for Iraqis trapped within the city.
You know, 31 deaths just shows how capable our forces are. Not to mention that 3/4 of those men who died were most likely proud to die for their country, as the recent polls show. And if you don't want to fight, and possibly die, then don't sign up. I am willing to chance that, which is why I am already in the Netional Guard, at least until I finish college. Then I am going into the Marines.

As far as the humanitarian aid is concerned, if you are so upset about military casualties, then why would you want to send men into harms way for the sole purpose of giving food to some people who didn't leave when the other 3/4 of the city did? Either you are more concerned with US casualties, or you care about the Iraqi people. Make up your mind.

As Jon Stewart said, "Imagine that, an election where only 40% of the population votes! Oh, wait..."

Basically, my response to that comment is the same. Generally, over half the country doesn't bother to vote anyways. This last election set all kinds of records with an all-time high voter turnout. Normally, however, most people don't vote. Therefore, if a bunch of guerrillas in iraq don't get to go to the polls in January because they are hiding in a cave with bombs going off all around them, I wont care. We don't let criminals vote in this country either. And if half the population votes, we'll be doing well. And if some normal people can't reach a poll, because we couldn't safely set one up in their area, then they have only the terrorists to blame.
And if these so called "guerrillas" are in essence Iraqi nationalists and don't want to vote in a rigged election that will still see the US dominate the country (both militarily and economically) for many years to come, that won't "bother you"?

I don't agree with anything that is going on over there. However, I do agree with this comment:

The weekend's desertions reportedly left only one fully intact Iraqi unit deployed with the Marines on the outskirts of Fallujah – the 36th Battalion, whose troops were recruited mostly from Kurdish and Shi'ite militia. "If the 36th turns out to be the 'Iraqi face' of the new government in Fallujah," noted one worried administration official, "it'll be seen as another occupation force."

The Kurds and the Shiites against the Sunnis....PERFECT?
I do not believe this is an issue. Most Sunnis, Kurds, and Shi'ites get along fine. For one, the feared ethnic violence in Iraq has not become a major issue. Look at Kirkuk. That hasn't turned into Srebrinca.

I do not believe this is an issue. Most Sunnis, Kurds, and Shi'ites get along fine. For one, the feared ethnic violence in Iraq has not become a major issue. Look at Kirkuk. That hasn't turned into Srebrinca.
:D Cause for the time beeing they still have a real enemy to fight. The American agressors.

Eh..no. They can't go outside anymore after dark. They could under Saddam.
The power to their homes only works periodicly.(sp) It worked just fine under Saddam. Same for water.
Medical services don't respond in time if at all. In situtaions like a heart attack, broken leg etc...every day stuff. They always came under Saddam.
Women can't go out by themselves anymore because of religouse fanatics unleashed by the US. They only go out in groups. That includes schoolgirls. Non of that under Saddam. And theres probably more.
LOL!
Who fed you this pile of manure?
http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
Read there about how women were treated.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Abuse%20of%20prisoners%20in%20Iraq%20under%20Saddam%20Hussein
Read there about human rights violations.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/iraq2003/125191_iraq05.html
And another.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/02/20040223-12.html
There's a story about health care being revamped in Iraq now.

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/fs_iraq_health.pdf
And another.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec03/iraq_12-31.html
And another.

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/short/39/21/1-a
And another.


Face it, Saddam was an ass, and you couldn't possibly do any more damage than he did. Don't even waste your time trying to say he did anything that benefited the people, unless perhaps he made a profit off it.

There is good news and bad news:

Since this thread is about 'good news', the good news is that we have united the Arab world...

And if these so called "guerrillas" are in essence Iraqi nationalists and don't want to vote in a rigged election that will still see the US dominate the country (both militarily and economically) for many years to come, that won't "bother you"?
Well, if you could prove it was a rigged election, then it would be different. However, our elections aren't rigged, although I'm sure you believe they are. I doubt theirs will be either.

And no, if a bunch of guys that use women and children and innocent civilians to hide their actions, and believe blowing up a crowded market is a good way to get back at our military, if these guys can't vote, then I don't care.

We've taken Fallujah!!! Halleujah!!! LOL
One of the most dangerous cities and it's been captured.

One of the most dangerous cities in the world???
It did become a more dangerous city when civiliians joined the rebels, because America blew innocent Iraqi's brains out.

LOL!
Who fed you this pile of manure?
http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
Read there about how women were treated.
It sure wasn't the US government. There was a nice documentary of the German channel 2 last week. Fremde Kinder. Quoting a US government source is like asking the Reichsrassenamt if the jews in the camps are beeing mistreated.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Abuse%20of%20prisoners%20in%20Iraq%20under%20Saddam%20Hussein
Read there about human rights violations.
Nothing the US army isn't doing as well. Although for other reasons.

Face it, Saddam was an ass, and you couldn't possibly do any more damage than he did. Don't even waste your time trying to say he did anything that benefited the people, unless perhaps he made a profit off it.
Hmm over 100,000 dead Iraqi civilians since the "liberation". The US is trying hard to make up for lost time.

Most Sunnis, Kurds, and Shi'ites get along fine.
Yeah and the earth is shaped like a cube? Just do a Google search on Iraq civil war and I got over 6 Million sites.

Next?

There is good news and bad news:

Since this thread is about 'good news', the good news is that we have united the Arab world...
That reminds me of an old movie with Terrence Hill. March or die. Hill was a thief in that and to evade capture signed on for the French Foreign Legion. He was dispatched to Marroko where they were to secure an archeological expedition. An Arab leader used that to unite all tribes against the French.
The story then was later on stolen by the crew that made legionair with Jean Claude Van Damme.

Eh..no. They can't go outside anymore after dark. They could under Saddam.
The power to their homes only works periodicly.(sp) It worked just fine under Saddam. Same for water.
Medical services don't respond in time if at all. In situtaions like a heart attack, broken leg etc...every day stuff. They always came under Saddam.
Women can't go out by themselves anymore because of religouse fanatics unleashed by the US. They only go out in groups. That includes schoolgirls. Non of that under Saddam. And theres probably more.

you are one sad deluded @$$hole
saddam only did something if it made him money
the "peace" he maitained was by threat of killing the criminal/family of criminal
we are better then that, no matter what those crazy anti-bush faniatics say

Wow, I can't care about U.S. casualties and the well being of an Iraqi civilian at the same time? Thats a little short sighted of you isn't it? Not everyone had the ability to just up and leave the city, you make it sound as if everyone in Fallujah could've left at a moments notice. Not everyone had a means of transportation, especially in the poorer sections of the city. Out of all the civilians that are still in Fallujah I guarantee you almost none of them stayed by choice.

As for the troops being proud to die for their country, well, unless every American soldier in Iraq is a die-hard conservative, I'd have to disagree with that statement.

Very soon, Iraq will be a shi'ite State. Period.
Why is that good? It balances the unpleasant preponderance of sunni states in that region...

You all act like the soldiers in Iraq are doing nothing but creating havoc and killing innocent people. Caution: reading the following articles may improve your understanding and outlook.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2004/n10102004_2004101004.html

http://www.strykernews.com/archives/2004/10/05/anaconda_soldiers_help_iraqi_school_children.html

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=5103

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/print.php?story_id_key=5746

https://sdguard.ngb.army.mil/Features/Feature.asp?Story=139&Rel=1

http://www.soc.mil/News/releases/04JUN/040621-02.htm

http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?sectionId=129&contentId=45947

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123008861

https://hn.afnews.af.mil/webpages/transcripts/ca%20school.htm

http://www.dod.gov/news/May2004/n05192004_200405196.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/mike_francis/index.ssf?/base/news/10894606193820.xml

http://www.vcorps.army.mil/news/2004/mar24_weight.htm

http://www.soc.mil/News/releases/04JAN/040128-01.htm

There are a lot more links of the good things going on over there if you care to look for them.

LOL!
Who fed you this pile of manure?
http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
Read there about how women were treated.
Right! I'll just believe the people who wanted to go to war 100% in the first place. Of course they won't lie. *cough*propaganda*cough*

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Abuse%20of%20prisoners%20in%20Iraq%20under%20Saddam%20Hussein
Read there about human rights violations.
That is rather good. It seems more balanced.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/iraq2003/125191_iraq05.html
And another.
*cough*propaganda*cough*

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/02/20040223-12.html
There's a story about health care being revamped in Iraq now.
Interesting. *cough*propaganda*cough*

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/pdf/fs_iraq_health.pdf
And another.
Wow! That sounds really good! Just a reminder- professional companies do say uneccasary things (exaggeration etc) some times to look good.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/july-dec03/iraq_12-31.html
And another.
*cough*propaganda*cough*

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/short/39/21/1-a
And another.[/QUOTE]
An interesting read. So Iraqi's are kidnapped more often then foreigners?


Face it, Saddam was an ass, and you couldn't possibly do any more damage than he did. Don't even waste your time trying to say he did anything that benefited the people, unless perhaps he made a profit off it.
Yes. Saddam was an ass- but remember- America did more damage by putting him and then taking him out. Its true he didn't benifit his people, but he was benificial for America for some reasons. I will never say Saddam was a nice person either.

you are one sad deluded @$$hole
saddam only did something if it made him money
the "peace" he maitained was by threat of killing the criminal/family of criminal
we are better then that, no matter what those crazy anti-bush faniatics say
Well fuck you to @$$hole. The US is the bigger of 2 evils here.

Seems like 90% of the things that don't agree with your view is propoganda. :rolleyes:

You all act like the soldiers in Iraq are doing nothing but creating havoc and killing innocent people. Caution: reading the following articles may improve your understanding and outlook.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2004/n10102004_2004101004.html

http://www.strykernews.com/archives/2004/10/05/anaconda_soldiers_help_iraqi_school_children.html

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/read.php?story_id_key=5103

http://www4.army.mil/ocpa/print.php?story_id_key=5746

https://sdguard.ngb.army.mil/Features/Feature.asp?Story=139&Rel=1

http://www.soc.mil/News/releases/04JUN/040621-02.htm

http://www.wclv.com/skin/blurb.php?sectionId=129&contentId=45947

http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123008861

https://hn.afnews.af.mil/webpages/transcripts/ca%20school.htm

http://www.dod.gov/news/May2004/n05192004_200405196.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/mike_francis/index.ssf?/base/news/10894606193820.xml

http://www.vcorps.army.mil/news/2004/mar24_weight.htm

http://www.soc.mil/News/releases/04JAN/040128-01.htm

There are a lot more links of the good things going on over there if you care to look for them.
Once again. Most of what you referred too here is propaganda. Its news that wins you over emotionally to one side or your support.

This thread is just stupid. Let me ask you, have any of you been to iraq? Have any of you talked to the Iraqi people? If not then you have no idea what is going on over their. You all quote all the articles, but your seeing only what the author wants you to see whether they believe the war is good or bad. You are seeing through someone elses view. This means that they are going to attach their opinions and show you what they need to support their articles. As for anyone who has been their, you are welcome to discuss it all you want, and thank you for what you do.

Once again. Most of what you referred too here is propaganda. Its news that wins you over emotionally to one side or your support.

No, the truth is, this is what our troops do no matter where they go. It has always been a trademark of our military actions.

You know, I try to stay pleasant and enforce my opinions with solid sources. But this crap on here has ticked me off!!

One of the most dangerous cities in the world???
It did become a more dangerous city when civiliians joined the rebels, because America blew innocent Iraqi's brains out.

Our military has precision strike weapons and they have taken great pains to avoid civilian casualties. Mistakes are made occasionally, but not often. When you whine and cry that troops have killed over 100,000 innocent Iraqis you are not representing the statistic correctly. A large number of those deaths were not innocent people but the insurgents that were targeted. A good number of them were also victims of these poor suppressed good citizens' bombs. Here is some of what has been found in Fallujah so far....

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=318846
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apmideast_story.asp?category=1107&slug=Iraq%20Sweeping%20Fallujah
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6451731/
http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/11/11/story175372.html
http://www.albasrah.net/images/3loj/mass-grave-us-soldiers.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/09/iraq.main/

And surely you've heard of the family of 5 that was executed with a bullet to the head by the rebels as the troops approached. The pictures of thier slaughter has been all over the TV. Or the school loaded with explosives to be detonated while children were in it and then blamed on a US bomb. Reminds me of the house that was blasted. It sent a fire ball hundreds of feet into the air because it was loaded with explosives. Some of the men mugging for the camera waved around children's clothing claiming that children were killed in the blast. No bodies of children were pulled out and the clothes had no burn marks and were not torn up. Bet you believe that's a cover up too. And the body of a blond woman found in the street, legs and arms cut off, throat cut, face mutilated, disembowled.

What is really sickening is that most of their atrocities have been inflicted on Iraqis. If your friends and neighbors were to resort to such disgusting acts when faced with a military force, then your community needs to have your water supply checked for psychosis causing chemicals. Insurgents from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, and Jordan have been captured. This is not an Iraqi rebel uprising. This is an all out world war against Muslim extremists.

Yeah and the earth is shaped like a cube? Just do a Google search on Iraq civil war and I got over 6 Million sites.

Next?
I'm not saying that Balkanization is still impossible, but just that it is unlikely. When the country was first invaded, there was a long list of nightmare scenarios that would make this insurgency look like a birthday party. Among them would be constant violence: Shi'ites and Kurds vs. Sunni, Kurds vs. the Turks, Shi'ites against eachother, and Muslim vs. Christian. The worst-case scenario would be an Iraqi version of the PKK, and the north immediatly declaring itself separate, killing all non-Kurds in Kirkuk, and forcing Turkey to intervene. That didn't happen, and is less likely to do so. Besides, as an Italian-American, do I want to kill Irish-Americans? No, because ultimatly, tribal affiliation to that extreme looks childish, especially in a liberal society, which will definitly emerge twenty years from now in Iraq.