NationStates Jolt Archive

Resistance Claims US Is Using Chemical Weapons
The British-based Al Quds newspaper is reporting that resistance fighters have also accused the U.S. of firing illegal chemical and nerve weapons in Fallujah. Earlier this week the Washington Post reported that doctors have reported seeing patients who have had their skin melted off after being hit by phosphorous rounds fired by U.S. troops. In other news from Fallujah, two U.S. helicopters were shot down yesterday.

Resistance Spreads Across Iraq
More questions are being raised as to the tactical value of waging such an assault on Fallujah. While the US has taken over most of the Sunni city, much of the Iraqi resistance appears to have simply left Fallujah and started fighting elsewhere. U.S. forces are now under attack across the country.

U.S. Attacks Resistance in Mosul
In Iraq's third biggest city, Mosul, five Iraqi police stations were bombed and the Iraqi resistance has taken over major portions of the city. In response the US military yesterday launched air and ground assaults against Mosul. Parts of Ramadi and Sammarah are also under the control of the Iraqi resistance. Meanwhile the Asia Times reports the resistance has taken over numerous neighborhoods in the greater Baghdad area for the first time [including the southern suburb of ad-Durha, as well as Hur Rajab, Abu Ghraib, al-Abidi, as-Suwayrah, Salman Bak, Latifiyah and Yusufiyah].
democracynow.org

It happens everday. But the reps don't have hearts or consciences so it doesn't affect them.

As I stated in another thread...tool....

I seriously don't see why we can't use chem weapons on these terrorist scum. THEY HAVE NO HUMAN RIGHTS!

Resistance Claims US Is Using Chemical Weapons
The British-based Al Quds newspaper is reporting that resistance fighters have also accused the U.S. of firing illegal chemical and nerve weapons in Fallujah. Earlier this week the Washington Post reported that doctors have reported seeing patients who have had their skin melted off after being hit by phosphorous rounds fired by U.S. troops.Phosphorous munitions are used for signaling, screening, or incendiary purposes. They're not intended for anti-personnel use.

I seriously don't see why we can't use chem weapons on these terrorist scum. THEY HAVE NO HUMAN RIGHTS!

Well because of a number of reasons

1 You can't use them because of the innocent people who will be affected
2 You can't claim to be trying to rid the world (and specifically Iraq) of wmds (like chemical weapons) and then use them at the same time.
Just doesn't fly.

We don't just use chemical weapons, we use laser guns, nuclear weapons, dragons, you just don't hear about it. :rolleyes:

Seriously, do you really trust a newspaper named "Al Quds"?

The Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons (http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/1980e.htm) only restricts the use of incendiary weapons against civilians. In addition, it does not classify signalling and smoke devices as incendiary weapons.

So, the US is well within their rights to use these.

As I stated in another thread...tool....


Who am I the tool of? Answer me, please.

And here's Al Quds (http://www.alquds.com/). If you can show us where the article is, and give us a translation...

Resistance Claims US Is Using Chemical Weapons
The British-based Al Quds newspaper is reporting that resistance fighters have also accused the U.S. of firing illegal chemical and nerve weapons in Fallujah. Earlier this week the Washington Post reported that doctors have reported seeing patients who have had their skin melted off after being hit by phosphorous rounds fired by U.S. troops. In other news from Fallujah, two U.S. helicopters were shot down yesterday.


1) Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. These guys are desperate for headlines to keep their rebellion alive
2) Phospherous in not a chem agent. Its use is as an anti-personnel and vehicular use. WP works well on terrorist bastards
3) All's fair in love and war. The insurgents used Sarin against our troops in May and again in July, so why can't we use it against them?

Heck I'd rather face Chem attacks then have to face off against hordes of brain eating zombies.

During the Second World War, the Nazis dropped hundreds of audial, and other nasty types of mines on London. They indiscriminantly killed thousands of people, both civilians and military personnel. Churchill refused to respond in kind on the Germans. You see, he was fond of something called, "THE HIGHER GROUND", the MORAL SUPERIORITY that VALIDATED the whole point of having the war, ie; they (the allies) were the "morally right" and were fighting an "evil", unscrupulous side (Nazi Germany). If Churchill had of used these mines, he would have been STOOPING TO THEIR LEVEL and any claim of being "morally right" would have been lost. In the present circumstances, where so much of the world's opinion is against the Americans, they cannot afford to do otherwise. If the Americans wish to claim that they are fighting a "just war", then they must not become the same as those that they claim are "evil". Using chemical weapons would be an admission to the world of the AMERICANS HYPOCRISY.

I ask you this, have you ever served in the armed forces? If you have, then you must have fond memories of the gas chamber. Unless you know what happens when you have been hit by the gas AND what we are fighting, then think before you sound off!

US military forces routinely carry white phosphorous grenades and have WP rounds for mortars, automatic grenade launchers and similar weapons.... its hardly new... they have had them since early World War 2 and so have other military forces.... the insurgents don't seem to, and the easiest way to clear a heavily fortified building in order to avoid losing your own men is to fire a WP round into it, and then use the dense smoke created to approach it for the final rush.. just infantry tactics..

the insurgents could always surrender, then they wouldn't get shot...

notice you didn't post the stories about the slaughter houses, the mass quanitities of munitions found..etc..

could it be that you have an agenda, and that facts that don't fit it don't deserve mention?

"Democracy Now" is not a reputable news source.

During the Second World War, the Nazis dropped hundreds of audial, and other nasty types of mines on London. They indiscriminantly killed thousands of people, both civilians and military personnel. Churchill refused to respond in kind on the Germans. You see, he was fond of something called, "THE HIGHER GROUND", the MORAL SUPERIORITY that VALIDATED the whole point of having the war, ie; they (the allies) were the "morally right" and were fighting an "evil", unscrupulous side (Nazi Germany). If Churchill had of used these mines, he would have been STOOPING TO THEIR LEVEL and any claim of being "morally right" would have been lost. In the present circumstances, where so much of the world's opinion is against the Americans, they cannot afford to do otherwise. If the Americans wish to claim that they are fighting a "just war", then they must not become the same as those that they claim are "evil". Using chemical weapons would be an admission to the world of the AMERICANS HYPOCRISY.


ah yes the high moral group of massive incendiary bombing of civilian population centers. the firestorm that killed at least a quarter million in dresden was so much getter.

"Democracy Now" is not a reputable news source.

its a biased news site, but then so are all the rest, prove it is any less reliable than the propaganda outlet you most enjoy.

Seriously people.

Al Quds: Arabic newspaper. Illegible (sadly) to most of this board.

US uses chemical weapons. Unsupported outside of an online newspaper that many of us cannot read.

Democracynow.org. Hosts something called the 'Guerrilla of the Week'. Agenda? never.

Let's all try NOT to shoot our mouths off about the Evil Imperial American Bastardry Daily Committed Against Good People Like Saddam Hussen Who Did Nothing To Anyone To Justify War Against His Peaceful Commonwealth.

the insurgents could always surrender, then they wouldn't get shot...

Riiiiiiiiight, instead they get stuck in one of those lovely camps that the americans have, where they can have their body and spirit defiled and crushed by the closet homosexual red necks that seem to make up so much of americas prison guards in iraq.

If your home was being attacked by 'heathen invaders' (try too see it from their point of view if that's possible) would you surrender?

Seriously people.

Al Quds: Arabic newspaper. Illegible (sadly) to most of this board.

US uses chemical weapons. Unsupported outside of an online newspaper that many of us cannot read.

Democracynow.org. Hosts something called the 'Guerrilla of the Week'. Agenda? never.

Let's all try NOT to shoot our mouths off about the Evil Imperial American Bastardry Daily Committed Against Good People Like Saddam Hussen Who Did Nothing To Anyone To Justify War Against His Peaceful Commonwealth.

no no , in fact lets shoot our mouths off about it...

no sense in waiting 5 years for the government to admit to its crimes when they are no longer current and the american people no longer care.

Riiiiiiiiight, instead they get stuck in one of those lovely camps that the americans have, where they can have their body and spirit defiled and crushed by the closet homosexual red necks that seem to make up so much of americas prison guards in iraq.

If your home was being attacked by 'heathen invaders' (try too see it from their point of view if that's possible) would you surrender?

I believe that camps you are referring to is actually that one prison and the Rednecks you are discussing are facing court martials... and some have already been convicted.

No, they won't surrender, they can't get to Paradise that way if they do...if I was an infantryman, and given orders to clear an area where someone was shooting at me.. I too would use a WP grenade and if you were there, if you were smart, you would too.... I see no reason to give them the chance to take my life just because they want to lose theirs.

and many of the insurgents aren't natives of Iraq either.... and you sorta skipped over my other points... about the facts that didn't fit your thesis (slaughter houses, massive weapons caches etc)

Terrorists are not human. They have no rights.

its a biased news site, but then so are all the rest, prove it is any less reliable than the propaganda outlet you most enjoy.

Well, I generally listen to NPR, which most Americans view as left of center, and the BBC, which most people view as about as objective as it gets, and I watch NBC, generally the most neutral of the 3 major American networks...

and NOBODY has mentioned your story (at least yet as they are probably checking for vericity)

as far as the Arab news source goes, if its on the internet, you can use babblefish to translate it (badly, but at least somewhat readable)

Terrorists are not human. They have no rights.

hey don't say that about the decent american men and women in the military. they may be misguided and ill lead by a wa rcriminal regime, but they are still human beings worthy of respect and the same rights as every other person in the world.

hey don't say that about the decent american men and women in the military. they may be misguided and ill lead by a wa rcriminal regime, but they are still human beings worthy of respect and the same rights as every other person in the world.

since all of the rest of us generally don't consider American military personnel terrorists, maybe you should either reconsider your position, or come up with a third party that considers them such..

and terrorists deserve all the justice they are entitled too... a quick trial and quick execution, just like the civilized world used to deal with pirates in the 16 - 19th centuries.

But if they use human shields (and the BBC is reporting that), they don't even deserve that

Well, I generally listen to NPR, which most Americans view as left of center, and the BBC, which most people view as about as objective as it gets, and I watch NBC, generally the most neutral of the 3 major American networks...

and NOBODY has mentioned your story (at least yet as they are probably checking for vericity)

as far as the Arab news source goes, if its on the internet, you can use babblefish to translate it (badly, but at least somewhat readable)

the only part of the story that is in dispute as far as i can tell is the part about the claimed use of chemical weapons. the story admits its only a claim by certain individuals on the scene, it doesn't say its a fact, or that it has been in any way verified. so what's the issue really?

since all of the rest of us generally don't consider American military personnel terrorists, maybe you should either reconsider your position, or come up with a third party that considers them such..

and terrorists deserve all the justice they are entitled too... a quick trial and quick execution, just like the civilized world used to deal with pirates in the 16 - 19th centuries.

But if they use human shields (and the BBC is reporting that), they don't even deserve that
if you were to take a poll of the worlds population as to who were the terrorists in fallujah, i think you would find the americans are generally regarded more so than the insurgents.

if you were to take a poll of the worlds population as to who were the terrorists in fallujah, i think you would find the americans are generally regarded more so than the insurgents.

Usually, when I'm in doubt, I go by this rule:

Whoever traveled the furthest to kill people is probably the terrorist.

Um... of course, there are exceptions...

Riiiiiiiiight, instead they get stuck in one of those lovely camps that the americans have, where they can have their body and spirit defiled and crushed by the closet homosexual red necks that seem to make up so much of americas prison guards in iraq.

If your home was being attacked by 'heathen invaders' (try too see it from their point of view if that's possible) would you surrender?

Actually, there was this big thing in the news recently, where the people that did those unsavoury things a Abu Ghraib were brought to trial, mush like Saddam is being brought to trial. Perhaps you can recall it. It is probably how you heard of the atrocities in the first place.

Americans can be arrogant bastards. They have a million flaws, they are self-absorbed to a point that can occasionally even make the French look gregarious. But they don't get away with much because the American society tends to tell on itself. The ever-present need for scandal, like a junkie's need for a frequent fix, keeps them from keeping their dirty laundry to themselves.

As for the terrorists that are getting waxed in Fallujah, they are primarily from Syria. The populace of the city was given three days' advance notice of the impending conflict, which is waaaaay more than America got, or Bali got, or Turkey got, from those who are now being mopped up. I am not saying that anyone left in the city deserved a WP treatment, but I am saying there was ample time to relocate.

Usually, when I'm in doubt, I go by this rule:

Whoever traveled the furthest to kill people is probably the terrorist.

Um... of course, there are exceptions...
yeah, plenty of neighbor killing in this sad crazy world of ours

if you were to take a poll of the worlds population as to who were the terrorists in fallujah, i think you would find the americans are generally regarded more so than the insurgents.

they wouldnt if they had accurate information... assuming you are right....

plus a few things to consider... roughly 1 billion people live so close to the margins that they could care less as eating is their next priority..

many (at least a billion more) don't even know about the situation (I can't imagine its a big story in rural China for example)

and most of those who are mad at the US for invading Iraq generally blame Bush, not the soldiers...

as far as atrocities go, the US could certainly have committed some... lets see, how to clear a city of enemy forces... well, take about a dozen B52s, each carrying about 60 heavy bombs (each bomb 750 lb usually) fly in tight formation over the city, drop the bombs... leave behind a moonscape.. no more enemy forces (or civilians, or anything else)... US casualties... zero

but that would be an atrocity as its indescriminate....throwing a grenade into a room where someone is shooting from is about as descriminate as it gets..

a terrorist is someone who kills innocents on purpose to make a point or statement. a soldier is someone who kills innocents on ACCIDENT (if at all).

walking into a pizza joint with a bomb strapped to your chest and blowing yourself and everyone around you (example occured in Israel) is terrorism.

NO ONE has ever accused the US of doing anything like that.. not even the most rabid anti US media sources and propaganda outlets

yeah, plenty of neighbor killing in this sad crazy world of ours

Yes. But killing your neighbor with a machete is murder. Even blowing him up is murder.

Blowing up foreigners 3000 miles away is terrorism. Even chopping their heads off is terrorism.

It's the distance that makes it terrorism. *nod*

hey don't say that about the decent american men and women in the military. they may be misguided and ill lead by a wa rcriminal regime, but they are still human beings worthy of respect and the same rights as every other person in the world.

What? Men and women who are giving their lives so you can say shit like that are criminals? If so, I can honestly say, to quote the ancient New Jerseyans, shut the fuck up.

During the Second World War, the Nazis dropped hundreds of audial, and other nasty types of mines on London. They indiscriminantly killed thousands of people, both civilians and military personnel. Churchill refused to respond in kind on the Germans. You see, he was fond of something called, "THE HIGHER GROUND", the MORAL SUPERIORITY that VALIDATED the whole point of having the war, ie; they (the allies) were the "morally right" and were fighting an "evil", unscrupulous side (Nazi Germany). If Churchill had of used these mines, he would have been STOOPING TO THEIR LEVEL and any claim of being "morally right" would have been lost. In the present circumstances, where so much of the world's opinion is against the Americans, they cannot afford to do otherwise. If the Americans wish to claim that they are fighting a "just war", then they must not become the same as those that they claim are "evil". Using chemical weapons would be an admission to the world of the AMERICANS HYPOCRISY.

So instead here merely carpet bombed entire German cities out of existance, no matter their population. Great higher ground.

What? Men and women who are giving their lives so you can say shit like that are criminals? If so, I can honestly say, to quote the ancient New Jerseyans, shut the fuck up.

i'm fairly sure none of them are actually giving up their lives so that i can say that. if they are i pity the fools.

Yes. But killing your neighbor with a machete is murder. Even blowing him up is murder.

Blowing up foreigners 3000 miles away is terrorism. Even chopping their heads off is terrorism.

It's the distance that makes it terrorism. *nod*
but what if both parties are foriegners... then i guess they are all just profoundly unwanted guests... an opinion i wouldn't be surprised if a far number of iraqis hold when someone looses a head.

Pleeeeeeeease shut up, Nationalist Valhalla!

Pleeeeeeeease shut up, Nationalist Valhalla!


hmmmmm.... aaahhhh.....

scratches head and ponders

hmmmm...

weeeelllll....mmmmm

no.

but what if both parties are foriegners... then i guess they are all just profoundly unwanted guests... an opinion i wouldn't be surprised if a far number of iraqis hold when someone looses a head.

They just don't respect what one group of foreigners is doing to stop the other group of foreigners on their land. They're too busy being angry that their neighbor got accidentally blown up.

They just don't respect what one group of foreigners is doing to stop the other group of foreigners on their land. They're too busy being angry that their neighbor got accidentally blown up.

yeah but by which group of foriegners, the ones who can speak the language or the ones who just shout really loud in their mother tongue and assume the rest of the world understands

yeah but by which group of foriegners, the ones who can speak the language or the ones who just shout really loud in their mother tongue and assume the rest of the world understands

I don't think the neighbor cares. He's in the afterlife going 'what the fu*k?!?' not 'who the fu*k?!?'

edit: Which is exactly why Naval combat will always be morally superior. Fewer innocent bystanders.

Phosphorus rounds aren't WMD.. or even close. :rolleyes:

I swear, these liberals have got to grow up.. you guys'll have another chance in '06.. there's no need to go and quote every whacky raghead newspaper to disparage our soldiers. :rolleyes:

Resistance Claims US Is Using Chemical Weapons
The British-based Al Quds newspaper is reporting that resistance fighters have also accused the U.S. of firing illegal chemical and nerve weapons in Fallujah. Earlier this week the Washington Post reported that doctors have reported seeing patients who have had their skin melted off after being hit by phosphorous rounds fired by U.S. troops. In other news from Fallujah, two U.S. helicopters were shot down yesterday.

Resistance Spreads Across Iraq
More questions are being raised as to the tactical value of waging such an assault on Fallujah. While the US has taken over most of the Sunni city, much of the Iraqi resistance appears to have simply left Fallujah and started fighting elsewhere. U.S. forces are now under attack across the country.

U.S. Attacks Resistance in Mosul
In Iraq's third biggest city, Mosul, five Iraqi police stations were bombed and the Iraqi resistance has taken over major portions of the city. In response the US military yesterday launched air and ground assaults against Mosul. Parts of Ramadi and Sammarah are also under the control of the Iraqi resistance. Meanwhile the Asia Times reports the resistance has taken over numerous neighborhoods in the greater Baghdad area for the first time [including the southern suburb of ad-Durha, as well as Hur Rajab, Abu Ghraib, al-Abidi, as-Suwayrah, Salman Bak, Latifiyah and Yusufiyah].
democracynow.org

1. Source?

EDIT - oh, democracynow, eh? Idiots. Get a real job.

2. People should know when they are conquered. Of course we should believe Islamic fundamentalists....

3. Anyone resisting US forces at this point is a fool.

Some of you kids need to stay in school and study your history. By kids, I mean intellectually weak, and by intellectually weak, I mean those of you who rely on sophistry and pseudo popular opinion (which would be what the leftist media purports is popular opinion despite, um, reality), and by that, I mean those of you who are accusing American soldiers of being terrorists.

As a veteran, I should take extreme offense at your ill-informed and pathetic attempts at indignation. Instead, I have only pity for your lack of comprehension and sadness for your lack of appreciation for what our brothers and sisters, our children and parents are doing. NOT for their own political or spiritual benefit, but for the service of our nation, and also for the service of those who cannot stand up for themselves. That good men have given their lives for yours and everyone elses freedom instills a feeling of pity in you? You are a low person, your uninformed and inexperienced opinion is as bereft of logic and comprehension as it is of tact. Since this is the internet, and you are free to speak your mind with no repurcusions, I'm sure you will likely laugh off my scorn, and the scorn of others here, but that hardly changes that you are of little personal honor.

It is a shame that people must die in war. War is an unfortunate blight upon the human condition. But sometimes war, and the loss of life, is necessary for the greater good of mankind. If you can't understand this, then that is proof in itself of the great gift of democracy, and of the gift of those that have sacrificed so much to provide it.

~ SCENE: Oval Office Beauty Salon. Camera 1 trucks right as PATRON approaches GEORGE at rinsing station ~

P - *sigh* I just can't seem to do ANYTHING with these troublesome insurgents, George, what am I going to do?

G - Thought about using chemical weapons?

P - Chemical weapons, George? Aren't they tough on skin?

G - Shhh. You're soaking in it!

~ Camera 1 goes to soft focal blur as ANNOUNCER intones mellifuously ~

"American Chemical Weapons, soft on international treaties, hard on unsightly human flesh."

1. Source?

EDIT - oh, democracynow, eh? Idiots. Get a real job.

2. People should know when they are conquered. Of course we should believe Islamic fundamentalists....

3. Anyone resisting US forces at this point is a fool.

Yep, I bet there were lots of Nazis and Gestapo dudes saying to the French Resistance that resistance was foolish.. Or lots of US generals saying that in Vietnam..

So instead here merely carpet bombed entire German cities out of existance, no matter their population. Great higher ground.
Dulce et Decorum Est.

3. Anyone resisting US forces at this point is a fool.


"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. Surrender now and be assimilated." :D

Personally, I think the vote in Iraq should not be for politicians. The Iraqis should vote on whether or not they want the US led allies to stay. If they vote us out, we should leave. Furthermore, since according to Ninny Valhalla the world sees us as terrorists, we should just stop being so damn pushy. I have a plan for this.

1) Bring all our jobs back home to America so as not to take advantage of poor foreigners.

2) Set our military on the US/Mexico and US/Canada border so as to prevent terrorist Americans from going to either country and to not expose citizens of those two pillars of humanity to American immorality.

3) Stop giving aid to other nations. Who are we to think that people need handouts anyway? Bad us.

4) We are not worthy enough to host the United Nations. It must be relocated to a more deserving nation, like France.

5) Furthermore, until we drop terrorist status, we can no longer remain a member of the UN in good faith. It would not be fair to everyone else.

6) No more Arab oil. We've taken advantage of those poor people for too long. We will sacrifice some natural beauty to use our own oil source until our scientists create an alternative.

7) We must stop worrying about whether North Korea and Iran has nukes. What business is it of ours? We have nukes, why shouldn't they? Surely they won't launch one, knowing what our response will be. Build away boys... build away.

8) Trade must stop as much as possible. Who wants to trade with terrorists? Luckily we are a nation that can be self sufficient for long periods of time. Travel and immigration must also cease and desist to ensure no immigrants come here and get corrupted and to ensure no American leaves to corrupt!

9) Foreign companies in America will have to leave. It is for their own good. My god... if they only knew terrorists were buying their products! The immoral and improper Americans buying Toyota, Aiwa, Volkswagen and Sony! We will not stain their reputation any longer!

10) Israel. We've supported them too long. They are a nation of unstable and paranoid people. The slightest change from a normal routine can set them off in a big way and have disastrous consequences. We must immediately and totally cease all relations with them!

We're sorry Nation Vanderhoopla! u R teh w1n s1r!!!!111

Dulce et Decorum Est.

Nemo me Impune Lacessit.

And yet I have to agree with Owen's assessment that death for one's country is still death, and usually an ugly and painful death at that.

In spite of that truth, we still find it worth the risk to offer these people their opportunity to guide their own destiny.

Phosphorous ammunition is widely used by all (as far as I know) nations militaries. If you want to know where the hell you are shooting with a heavy mahcine gun, at leas 1/5 of the bullets ought to be phosphorous. And if you get hit by a bullet from such a weapon, and you live to complain about your face being melted... then you are lucky.

That being said, I do believe that US troops should get out of Iraq as far as possible. There were no ties to Al Quaida, there were no WMDs, the only reason american soldiers (and poor people who will get green cards if they survive this war) are in iraq is to make sure Bushs friends can make som more money of the already starving poor iraqi population.

Yep, I bet there were lots of Nazis and Gestapo dudes saying to the French Resistance that resistance was foolish.. Or lots of US generals saying that in Vietnam..

But the thing with the French Resistence is that they hit MILITARY TARGETS!!! As for Vietnam, we won every military engagement but lost it on the home front thanks to LBJ and the anti-war crowd!

"We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. Surrender now and be assimilated." :D

"Captain, we have a borg cube on scanners"

"Fire a transphasic torpedo at them or 5"

"Yes sir."

Transphasic torpedoes fire and destroy the Borg Cube!

:D

It's quite fun to see all the different sides in this discussion. First, the "Hell-let's-bomb-'em-terrorist-suckers-to-hell" who seem to believe that just because th US believes that a small minority are terrorists everyone should pay for it. That doesn't work, just look at Vietnam and Afghanistan, the US can't fight a civl war for a people, because it seems to me out of what I'm hearing that's what's going on.

Ths US will continue to lose troops and possibly take control of cities for a while, but they'll need several million soldiers to be able to keep the terrorists down and then what will you have? A foreign dicatatorship which I believe not even the most US-friendly iraqies wolud have a positive view towards. I think it's just best to get out of there and get some multi-national UN-support to be able to build up a democracy. To be frank, there are other models than the US-model iand it doesn't work everywhere, so what about a big counsel with delegates discussing the future of Iraq insead, thereby eliminating the risk of the US being blamed for everything if it doesn't work, because all countries may not be ready for a western democracy and it may not be the best alternative for them.

FInally, I'd just like to add that I used to support the war, but my view has changed now, after having seen that the soldiers don't seem to have that much control.

During the Second World War, the Nazis dropped hundreds of audial, and other nasty types of mines on London. They indiscriminantly killed thousands of people, both civilians and military personnel. Churchill refused to respond in kind on the Germans. You see, he was fond of something called, "THE HIGHER GROUND", the MORAL SUPERIORITY that VALIDATED the whole point of having the war, ie; they (the allies) were the "morally right" and were fighting an "evil", unscrupulous side (Nazi Germany). If Churchill had of used these mines, he would have been STOOPING TO THEIR LEVEL and any claim of being "morally right" would have been lost. In the present circumstances, where so much of the world's opinion is against the Americans, they cannot afford to do otherwise. If the Americans wish to claim that they are fighting a "just war", then they must not become the same as those that they claim are "evil". Using chemical weapons would be an admission to the world of the AMERICANS HYPOCRISY.


Dude, you better check your history. Churchill bombed many German civilian centers in WW2. The British media claimed that military and industrial installations were targeted, but Bomber Harris (head of the British Bomber Command) denied these claims and explicitly stated that innocent civilians were being targetted.

Dude, you better check your history. Churchill bombed many German civilian centers in WW2. The British media claimed that military and industrial installations were targeted, but Bomber Harris (head of the British Bomber Command) denied these claims and explicitly stated that innocent civilians were being targetted.

Yep just like Hitler who started the whole civilian bombing campaign on the United Kingdom with the Bombing of London and other British Cities as well as the V2 rocket launches at Britain as well.

Personally, I think the vote in Iraq should not be for politicians. The Iraqis should vote on whether or not they want the US led allies to stay. If they vote us out, we should leave. Furthermore, since according to Ninny Valhalla the world sees us as terrorists, we should just stop being so damn pushy. I have a plan for this.

1) Bring all our jobs back home to America so as not to take advantage of poor foreigners.

2) Set our military on the US/Mexico and US/Canada border so as to prevent terrorist Americans from going to either country and to not expose citizens of those two pillars of humanity to American immorality.

3) Stop giving aid to other nations. Who are we to think that people need handouts anyway? Bad us.

4) We are not worthy enough to host the United Nations. It must be relocated to a more deserving nation, like France.

5) Furthermore, until we drop terrorist status, we can no longer remain a member of the UN in good faith. It would not be fair to everyone else.

6) No more Arab oil. We've taken advantage of those poor people for too long. We will sacrifice some natural beauty to use our own oil source until our scientists create an alternative.

7) We must stop worrying about whether North Korea and Iran has nukes. What business is it of ours? We have nukes, why shouldn't they? Surely they won't launch one, knowing what our response will be. Build away boys... build away.

8) Trade must stop as much as possible. Who wants to trade with terrorists? Luckily we are a nation that can be self sufficient for long periods of time. Travel and immigration must also cease and desist to ensure no immigrants come here and get corrupted and to ensure no American leaves to corrupt!

9) Foreign companies in America will have to leave. It is for their own good. My god... if they only knew terrorists were buying their products! The immoral and improper Americans buying Toyota, Aiwa, Volkswagen and Sony! We will not stain their reputation any longer!

10) Israel. We've supported them too long. They are a nation of unstable and paranoid people. The slightest change from a normal routine can set them off in a big way and have disastrous consequences. We must immediately and totally cease all relations with them!

We're sorry Nation Vanderhoopla! u R teh w1n s1r!!!!111

I totally agree. Although it will bring a bit of economic instability to mainly Europe and Japan (because EU&J companies have invested in the US and vice versa) it means more economic freedom from all concerned. Also, third world countries will profit slightly as they gain economic independence fom theUnited States. However, they'll still be oppressed by other rich places namely EU and Japan.

It would be cool if a new generations of americans could prove that you can be the biggest economy in the world and still not be loathed by everybody.

Yep just like Hitler who started the whole civilian bombing campaign on the United Kingdom with the Bombing of London and other British Cities as well as the V2 rocket launches at Britain as well.

Word.

I'm not denying Hitler started the civilian bombing fad. However, military planners on all sides had planned bombing campaigns against civilians shortly after WW1!

the insurgents could always surrender, then they wouldn't get shot...


So, If the US was to attack my country with chemical weapons it would be my fault for not surrendering?

I think that would be a bit stupid.

Not to mention the fact that the US had no business in Iraq(except to rid it of its nuclear weapons, which the world's best weapon's inspectors failed to find, and whose radiation just happened to be invisible to the various radiation detecting satellites orbiting the earth,they must be some special nukes,hey?).

I don't think the neighbor cares. He's in the afterlife going 'what the fu*k?!?' not 'who the fu*k?!?'

edit: Which is exactly why Naval combat will always be morally superior. Fewer innocent bystanders.

Yeah, I never thought of it that way actually.

It would be cool if a new generations of americans could prove that you can be the biggest economy in the world and still not be loathed by everybody.

Sir. You mistook what I meant. To be brief, however, 'We do not need to be the biggest economy in the world. We only need to be able to blow up the biggest economy in the world.' With the exception of England, foreign opinion means diddle shit to me.

Word.

I'm not denying Hitler started the civilian bombing fad. However, military planners on all sides had planned bombing campaigns against civilians shortly after WW1!

Agreed because neither side had the capacity to target individual buildings so you level the city!

We don't just use chemical weapons, we use laser guns, nuclear weapons, dragons, you just don't hear about it. :rolleyes:

Seriously, do you really trust a newspaper named "Al Quds"?
No, I do not. Cos I, unlike many of the leftist commie scum, know that anything arabic is evil, biast and liberal.

With the exception of England, foreign opinion means diddle shit to me.
So an opinion only means something if it's the same as yours? Nice.
In that case I would have thought you'd like Australia too.

Sir. You mistook what I meant. To be brief, however, 'We do not need to be the biggest economy in the world. We only need to be able to blow up the biggest economy in the world.' With the exception of England, foreign opinion means diddle shit to me.
So Iraqi foreign opinion means so little?
No wonder they feel we are occupiers. We care so little about their opinions.

Why do you care about England?

Some of you kids need to stay in school and study your history. By kids, I mean intellectually weak, and by intellectually weak, I mean those of you who rely on sophistry and pseudo popular opinion (which would be what the leftist media purports is popular opinion despite, um, reality), and by that, I mean those of you who are accusing American soldiers of being terrorists.

As a veteran, I should take extreme offense at your ill-informed and pathetic attempts at indignation. Instead, I have only pity for your lack of comprehension and sadness for your lack of appreciation for what our brothers and sisters, our children and parents are doing. NOT for their own political or spiritual benefit, but for the service of our nation, and also for the service of those who cannot stand up for themselves. That good men have given their lives for yours and everyone elses freedom instills a feeling of pity in you? You are a low person, your uninformed and inexperienced opinion is as bereft of logic and comprehension as it is of tact. Since this is the internet, and you are free to speak your mind with no repurcusions, I'm sure you will likely laugh off my scorn, and the scorn of others here, but that hardly changes that you are of little personal honor.

It is a shame that people must die in war. War is an unfortunate blight upon the human condition. But sometimes war, and the loss of life, is necessary for the greater good of mankind. If you can't understand this, then that is proof in itself of the great gift of democracy, and of the gift of those that have sacrificed so much to provide it.


Thank God a Vet has shown up and straightened y'all out! I live right next to a military base, and half the people in my town are DoD employees. If you call our soldiers "terrorists" for trying to save your life and mine, then you don't deserve to live. All you are at that moment is an ingrate who's just like Jane Fonda, a traitor! So shove that in your peace pipe and smoke it!

Thank God a Vet has shown up and straightened y'all out! I live right next to a military base, and half the people in my town are DoD employees. If you call our soldiers "terrorists" for trying to save your life and mine, then you don't deserve to live. All you are at that moment is an ingrate who's just like Jane Fonda, a traitor! So shove that in your peace pipe and smoke it!

That is right they fight for your life and so they fought for nothing if you don't deserve to live. Meaning that the soldiers lives are therefore worthless and therefore they stop deserving to live. Where does the madness stop?

I just had to bring out the hypocricy of your statement. Plus it was fun.

I love how republicans always bring up Jane Fonda. I know she live back stabed America or something apprently but did anyone ask why? See if she was crazy or had a little good reason in her opinion. Its easy to beat a enemy you understand after all.

Sadly our soldiers can be terrorist. Abu Grarib proves that. Soldiers allowed other soldiers to lose respect. You should make sure that they stop acting like it so people stop thinking that. They are kinda Analogous.

Also not everyone smokes so no pipes here.

That is right they fight for your life and so they fought for nothing if you don't deserve to live. Meaning that the soldiers lives are therefore worthless and therefore they stop deserving to live. Where does the madness stop?

I just had to bring out the hypocricy of your statement. Plus it was fun.

I love how republicans always bring up Jane Fonda. I know she live back stabed America or something apprently but did anyone ask why? See if she was crazy or had a little good reason in her opinion. Its easy to beat a enemy you understand after all.

Sadly our soldiers can be terrorist. Abu Grarib proves that. Soldiers allowed other soldiers to lose respect. You should make sure that they stop acting like it so people stop thinking that. They are kinda Analogous.

Also not everyone smokes so no pipes here.

God, where the hell did you pull out that our soldiers' lives are worthless? Did I say that?
NO!

So, if I didn't say that, where did you come with that? Is it because you hate our men and women over there? Maybe that's it, you hate your countrymen and America in general. Well, if you don't like America, I'm sure North Korea would love to take you in. I hear they have a nice resort called Camp 22 that you'd sure love.

Come on guys this has gone to far. There are so many different oppinions. I'm a canadian and i know none of you americans care about us. Even though there are close to three thousand canadian troops serving with the marines in Iraq. Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Most non-americans dislike or even hate the americans policy in Iraq and most americans will defend to choice to invade iraq and use whatever force is necessary but arguing on an online forum won't change anything.

Thank God a Vet has shown up and straightened y'all out! I live right next to a military base, and half the people in my town are DoD employees. If you call our soldiers "terrorists" for trying to save your life and mine, then you don't deserve to live. All you are at that moment is an ingrate who's just like Jane Fonda, a traitor! So shove that in your peace pipe and smoke it!

Originally Posted by BastardSword
That is right they fight for your life and so they fought for nothing if you don't deserve to live. Meaning that the soldiers lives are therefore worthless and therefore they stop deserving to live. Where does the madness stop?

I just had to bring out the hypocricy of your statement. Plus it was fun.

I love how republicans always bring up Jane Fonda. I know she live back stabed America or something apprently but did anyone ask why? See if she was crazy or had a little good reason in her opinion. Its easy to beat a enemy you understand after all.

Sadly our soldiers can be terrorist. Abu Grarib proves that. Soldiers allowed other soldiers to lose respect. You should make sure that they stop acting like it so people stop thinking that. They are kinda Analogous.

Also not everyone smokes so no pipes here.


God, where the hell did you pull out that our soldiers' lives are worthless? Did I say that?
NO!

So, if I didn't say that, where did you come with that? Is it because you hate our men and women over there? Maybe that's it, you hate your countrymen and America in general. Well, if you don't like America, I'm sure North Korea would love to take you in. I hear they have a nice resort called Camp 22 that you'd sure love.

Let me see. You say "If you call our soldiers "terrorists" for trying to save your life and mine, then you don't deserve to live".
I say then they fought for nothing because those people didn't deserve to live according to you. Therefore they are worthless because they fought for nothing. If they have nothing then they do not deserve to live your reasoning follows.
Thus it folows that you did kinda state that the Soldier's live were then worthless.
Sorry, no hate here. I love America. United States too. (good joke because America is both North, Central, and South). So no you go take your slander, your stifling of dissent, and your torture to N. Korea. They are known for that.

So there by using logic I've tore down your words. :) (hugs because its niceness day)

Come on guys this has gone to far. There are so many different oppinions. I'm a canadian and i know none of you americans care about us. Even though there are close to three thousand canadian troops serving with the marines in Iraq. Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Most non-americans dislike or even hate the americans policy in Iraq and most americans will defend to choice to invade iraq and use whatever force is necessary but arguing on an online forum won't change anything.
You're right on everything except for the part where us Americans "don't care for Canadians". Well guess what, we do here in the South. We might not like the cold, but we sure as hell respect those who stand beside us in this war for survival.

I seriously don't see why we can't use chem weapons on these terrorist scum. THEY HAVE NO HUMAN RIGHTS!

Because then we'd be terrorists too.

Let me see. You say "If you call our soldiers "terrorists" for trying to save your life and mine, then you don't deserve to live".
I say then they fought for nothing because those people didn't deserve to live according to you. Therefore they are worthless because they fought for nothing. If they have nothing then they do not deserve to live your reasoning follows.
Thus it folows that you did kinda state that the Soldier's live were then worthless.
Sorry, no hate here. I love America. United States too. (good joke because America is both North, Central, and South). So no you go take your slander, your stifling of dissent, and your torture to N. Korea. They are known for that.

So there by using logic I've tore down your words. :) (hugs because its niceness day)

Their lives aren't worthless. Did you forget that they're saving the lives of those who love their country as well? Also, before you pop your mouth off again, let me say this. DO NOT CRITICISE THE WAR UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO FIGHT IT! DO NOT JUDGE A MAN BEFORE YOU WALK A MILE IN HIS SHOES! (and finally) DO NOT PISS OFF AMERICA. Japan, Iraq (twice), Al-queida/Afghanistan have found out.

Bush sucks! End of discussion.

Bush sucks! End of discussion.

When the Democrats put up a candidate that I actually WANT to vote for, I'd agree with you. So far, they're playing second place to "suck"... which means, in your lexicon that they blow.

Phosphorus? You mean the stuff they put in matches, flares and signal devices? This sounds more like tossing a smoke marker into a den of insurgents to mark the spot for an air strike, than the direct use of chem weapons.

And if you could give me better sources than a random notorious anti-america arab newspaer and another random anti-bush website, well, I'd be much obliged to look further into this.

And if Phosphorus is a chemical weapon, well, I guess my Independence Day fun is going to have to be stopped this year, after all, I am releasing massive amounts of phosphorus gas when I shoot those fireworks off and light those matches.

Come on guys this has gone to far. There are so many different oppinions. I'm a canadian and i know none of you americans care about us. Even though there are close to three thousand canadian troops serving with the marines in Iraq. Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Most non-americans dislike or even hate the americans policy in Iraq and most americans will defend to choice to invade iraq and use whatever force is necessary but arguing on an online forum won't change anything.

When did Canada send Troops to Iraq? Last I've heard, they were only in Afghanistan.

And as for not caring about Canada, I do care about Canada and I respect what your forces are doing in Afghanistan.

Their lives aren't worthless. Did you forget that they're saving the lives of those who love their country as well? Also, before you pop your mouth off again, let me say this. DO NOT CRITICISE THE WAR UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO FIGHT IT! DO NOT JUDGE A MAN BEFORE YOU WALK A MILE IN HIS SHOES! (and finally) DO NOT PISS OFF AMERICA. Japan, Iraq (twice), Al-queida/Afghanistan have found out.

You do remember the constitution along with the Bill of Rights.
Freedom of dissent is in the history books and is part of being American.
Did the ForeFathers belong to English government when they criticized it? No they sepereated!
Did they walk a mile in King Goerge's shoes? No, they did not. They were not kings lol!

And Vietnam found out that America can be lead by he wrong people. So what was the question. Sad war...

So dude before you say I can't speak. I must say stop pissing on our Forefathers. Everytime you stifle dissent you are doing that.

You're right on everything except for the part where us Americans "don't care for Canadians". Well guess what, we do here in the South. We might not like the cold, but we sure as hell respect those who stand beside us in this war for survival.

Thankyou so much man. You've just single handedly changed my opinion of americans. god bless the united states of america and god bless canada let us pray this current fighting won't reck the great relations between are two great country's.

and American Republic our government didn't sent troops but almost 3,000 canadians who have joint citezenship but lived in canada when and joined your marines.

Thankyou so much man. You've just single handedly changed my opinion of americans. god bless the united states of america and god bless canada let us pray this current fighting won't reck the great relations between are two great country's.

and American Republic our government didn't sent troops but almost 3,000 canadians who have joint citezenship but lived in canada when and joined your marines.


I'm just glad you kept an open mind.
*walks away happy seeing how he helped change the world*

Yep, I bet there were lots of Nazis and Gestapo dudes saying to the French Resistance that resistance was foolish.. Or lots of US generals saying that in Vietnam..

Completely different situation.

Were the Germans planning to hand back power to the French? I think not. The longer they fight, the longer we stay.

Sir. You mistook what I meant. To be brief, however, 'We do not need to be the biggest economy in the world. We only need to be able to blow up the biggest economy in the world.' With the exception of England, foreign opinion means diddle shit to me.

LOL. It would indeed be a good thing for most people if America did blow up the biggest economy of the world!

Agreed because neither side had the capacity to target individual buildings so you level the city!

No, no. They wanted to bomb as many civilians as possible. The theory was that bombers were hard to stop with fighters & AA, so in response more bombers should be produced to wipe out the *enemy* population so they could produce no more weapons.

Sir. You mistook what I meant. To be brief, however, 'We do not need to be the biggest economy in the world. We only need to be able to blow up the biggest economy in the world.' With the exception of England, foreign opinion means diddle shit to me.

Well, I have news for you Carpage - in contrast to Tony Blair's enthusiasm, the expression of anti-American sentiment here in the UK has become all but ubiquitous. All across the media, and even when talking to otherwise mild-mannered people, America is now refered to more as a totalitarian state then a nation with which we have a special relationship. Whatever your political inclinations, this is as a direct result of the so called war on terror. Remember, over 2 million (1/30th of the population) mached against the war in London two years ago, and this sentiment has only become further entrenched with Blair's intransigence. Maybe my personal experiences will illustrate - I study science at a large university, and have plenty of contact time with a number of tutors. These are harmless people largly obsessed with their work and somewhat disconnected from the real world - but we have already had a personal tirade upon Bush's reelection from a maths teacher in front of the entire year, and the suggestion from a physicist that "it might not be such a bad idea to drop [a black hole] on the USA" (I'll let you guess the context of this). These are extremely intelligent people and well respected in their fields - isn't indicative of the distribution of anti-American sentiment if they feel they can make such comments to undergraduates without any sense of risk whatsoever? This is as nothing compared to the comments I've heard from my coevals. It is a joke that citizens of most countries outside the USA fear Iraq and Afghanistan, when compared to the strength of feeling that has accumulated against the Americans. Personally , I think this is extremely unfortunate and even verges on the racist at times, but it is absurd to think this sort of unilaterist action will win friends anywhere else. Public opinion of the States in Britain has been damaged immensly badly over the war: I remain curious as to whether people in the States is general were aware of this.

I really think much of America knows of the negative feelings around the world. We really just don't care.
The majority that re-elected Bush most likely support the invasion of Iraq. They saw, and continue to see, it as the correct action. I'm one of them. When I hear all this protest around the world, all I think is, "Being popular and being right rarely coincide."

Their lives aren't worthless. Did you forget that they're saving the lives of those who love their country as well? Also, before you pop your mouth off again, let me say this. DO NOT CRITICISE THE WAR UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING TO FIGHT IT! DO NOT JUDGE A MAN BEFORE YOU WALK A MILE IN HIS SHOES! (and finally) DO NOT PISS OFF AMERICA. Japan, Iraq (twice), Al-queida/Afghanistan have found out.

Why would you fight in a war that you don't agree with? That is retarded. That is like saying don't call a girl fat and disgusting unless you are going to marry her and have her fat disgusting babies. Or like saying don't call korean cars cheaply made death traps unless you are going to crash one into an SUV and die in blazing inferno.

Personnally I dont think any media can be trusted to any extent. They are all biased in some way. The only way to get the straight facts is to see it for yourself, and as someone who has been in the sandbox I believe that what we are doing is just, and deff within the Geneva Conventions.

- The Armed Republic Of Militant Republicans

Heck I'd rather face Chem attacks then have to face off against hordes of brain eating zombies.

Nah, Zombies are easy enough to kill. I would prefer to face Chemical attacks rather that fight an army of OMG-Ninjas.

I almost forgot to say that anyone not supporting the war in Iraq is a tree hugging idiot, and if you happened to be in Iraq I bet you would get shot by an insergent, or captured/tortured/beheaded.

Militant Republicans

Wow I was #90 ten more posts and this thread will be at 100 very few threads get this long. And those that do will become big time and may evn rest in the thread hall of fame!!


Happy Happy joy joy Disco balls This is my 32ed post

Tree hugging idiot.

-Militant Republicans

Hmmm.... so it's fair game if the iraqis start using chemical weapons on us?..... yeah, that's what i thought

I almost forgot to say that anyone not supporting the war in Iraq is a tree hugging idiot, and if you happened to be in Iraq I bet you would get shot by an insergent, or captured/tortured/beheaded.

Militant Republicans

You bet we'd be shot or captured/tortured/beheaded because we're in Iraq, or because we give a shit about the enviroment?

I personally wouldn't believe a news reported only by "democracy now". It's not a trustable source of information. This being said, it wouldn't surprise me much either to her that it's true: from Yanks I'm expecting pretty much anything. See the number of them here who find justifiable to shoot a wounded POW.

Why would you fight in a war that you don't agree with? That is retarded. That is like saying don't call a girl fat and disgusting unless you are going to marry her and have her fat disgusting babies. Or like saying don't call korean cars cheaply made death traps unless you are going to crash one into an SUV and die in blazing inferno.

Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Don't criticise a man before you walk a mile in his shoes. If you wish to know what's going on over there, look at this video. You'll need quicktime.
http://images.military.com/Shock/0,,SA_FallujahFight_111604,00.html

Who am I the tool of? Answer me, please.


Your comments are 50% asinine, 50% fallacious.

I seriously don't see why we can't use chem weapons on these terrorist scum. THEY HAVE NO HUMAN RIGHTS!

Excuse me? Wasn't the draconian-nature of WMD's the ostensible reason we FIRST went after Hussein [he said, not believing his own word]? The U.S. using chemical weapons would make us just as bad as those were are presumably "liberating" Iraq [yeah, right] from.

:confused:

I personally wouldn't believe a news reported only by "democracy now". It's not a trustable source of information. This being said, it wouldn't surprise me much either to her that it's true: from Yanks I'm expecting pretty much anything. See the number of them here who find justifiable to shoot a wounded POW.

A wounded, unsecured insurgent was shot, not exactly a "prisoner" of anything. Things like this are unfortunate, but when the opposition has been known to surrender, then to unsurrender to the tune of an explosion or to booby trap their own dead, it is quite understandable to couter these tactics with overzealous trigger action.

No British person could ever complain about Americans using phosphorous weapons. We went and used the in the Falklands because our troops found out on their own that "signal" grenades are both plentiful and a great alternative to napalm. Now thats what I call ingenuity.

And in response to those who think that British students have gone soft (there are no doubt some who believe so now) us War Studies students have been debating the war with some of the greatest experts on the moral and operational elements of warfare and it's fairly clear; Now we're there, better to finish the job.

Disclaimer: No, I'm not yet an expert, but I'm halfway there. :p

I like phosporus, it's in my cereal and it makes me strong.

I personally wouldn't believe a news reported only by "democracy now". It's not a trustable source of information. This being said, it wouldn't surprise me much either to her that it's true: from Yanks I'm expecting pretty much anything. See the number of them here who find justifiable to shoot a wounded POW.
democracynow is extremely trustworthy and has far higher standards then the subverted corporate media

I seriously don't see why we can't use chem weapons on these terrorist scum. THEY HAVE NO HUMAN RIGHTS!

This worries me.

The point of human rights is that they are applicable to ALL, if we do not enforce this then they are meaningless...

democracynow is extremely trustworthy and has far higher standards then the subverted corporate media

"Words of this kind are often used in a consciously dishonest way. That is, the person who uses them has his own private definition, but allows his hearer to think he means something quite different. Statements like Marshall Petain was a true patriot, The Soviet press is the freest in the world, The Catholic Church is opposed to persecution, are almost always made with intent to deceive."
- George Orwell

This is the kind of thing I was talking to you about last night.

democracynow is extremely trustworthy and has far higher standards then the subverted corporate media

DemocracyNOW is a farging joke.

Maybe you didn't understand what I said. Don't criticise a man before you walk a mile in his shoes. If you wish to know what's going on over there, look at this video. You'll need quicktime.
http://images.military.com/Shock/0,,SA_FallujahFight_111604,00.html

I don't think I want to veiw that video, it seems as if you have to give your contact info to recruiters I had enough dinner time calls from the army when I was 18. I agree with you to the extent that you can't really judge a soldier by his split second decision if you haven't actually been in combat. My general feeling about the whole shooting is that the marine f'd up and probably should be demoted a rank or censured or something but it isn't the worst thing in the world. He may have overreacted but it wasn't a premeditated malicious act.

Real war criminals however are a different story. People like the soldiers guilty of the Abu Garib torture are a disgrace to humanity and should be shot in the head on the spot. People like that inflict incalcuable harm on whatever nation, or cause they are fighting on behalf of and only serve to help their enemy recruit more fighters to their casue and fight harder. The guy that shot the wounded insurgent doesn't fall into this category. He should probably still be disciplined though to show that the army expects its soldiers
to show respect for human life and follow ethical rules of combat.

Military.com edited out all the gory stuff. It's not bad, really.

Now I must ask you when you decided to not join the military. Was it before or after 9/11? I was only eleven at the time, and I've kept my course this whole time.

The Marine, I believe, made the right choice. He did not know what the Iraqi had under him, such as a grenade or IED. He was alive and was a threat because we didn't know what he had. Its just like a police officer shooting a man who went back for his wallet too fast. The unknown is the most dangerous thing in the world, because it cannot be prepared for.

DemocracyNOW is a farging joke.
democracynow is the voice of truth in a wilderness of corporate media lies

Really? How do you know? Just because something is "independent" doesn't mean that it has no bias.

Really? How do you know? Just because something is "independent" doesn't mean that it has no bias.
it has a people power bias--its the exception to the rulers

Yes. But killing your neighbor with a machete is murder. Even blowing him up is murder.

Blowing up foreigners 3000 miles away is terrorism. Even chopping their heads off is terrorism.

It's the distance that makes it terrorism. *nod*
sorry but that is a sad sad excuse for a definition of terrorism...distance does not compute into terrorism...

Hmmm.... so it's fair game if the iraqis start using chemical weapons on us?..... yeah, that's what i thought


iraqis we aren't fighting iraqis..syrians, iranis?..we are fighting them but no they cant use chemical weaopons

I don't think I want to veiw that video, it seems as if you have to give your contact info to recruiters I had enough dinner time calls from the army when I was 18. I agree with you to the extent that you can't really judge a soldier by his split second decision if you haven't actually been in combat. My general feeling about the whole shooting is that the marine f'd up and probably should be demoted a rank or censured or something but it isn't the worst thing in the world. He may have overreacted but it wasn't a premeditated malicious act.

Real war criminals however are a different story. People like the soldiers guilty of the Abu Garib torture are a disgrace to humanity and should be shot in the head on the spot. People like that inflict incalcuable harm on whatever nation, or cause they are fighting on behalf of and only serve to help their enemy recruit more fighters to their casue and fight harder. The guy that shot the wounded insurgent doesn't fall into this category. He should probably still be disciplined though to show that the army expects its soldiers
to show respect for human life and follow ethical rules of combat.
so ethical rule of combat..that means no underwear on the head unless it is the head you just cut off a truck driver...hmm that make sense..you idiot

I seriously don't see why we can't use chem weapons on these terrorist scum. THEY HAVE NO HUMAN RIGHTS!

insurgents or freedom fighters are not terrorists! also chem rounds don't distinguish between friend and foe what don't you get about that???!!!!!!!!

democracynow is the voice of truth in a wilderness of corporate media lies


DemocracyNow is a whore of the political Berkley left. It is a fabulous propoganda tool.

so ethical rule of combat..that means no underwear on the head unless it is the head you just cut off a truck driver...hmm that make sense..you idiot

Of course where some people see idiocy like putting underwear on the heads of detainees and barbarism in butchering known innocents, other see moral equivalency

so ethical rule of combat..that means no underwear on the head unless it is the head you just cut off a truck driver...hmm that make sense..you idiot
You are the idiot, for every abu garib there are thousands more iraqis siding with the insurgents and dozens more bombings and attacks. The soldiers that pull that crap get soldiers on the front lines killed becasue of their moronic buffoonery.

What? Men and women who are giving their lives so you can say shit like that are criminals? If so, I can honestly say, to quote the ancient New Jerseyans, shut the fuck up.
What criminals are you referring to?