NationStates Jolt Archive

Please lets stop generalizing. I know your ticked because the American people don't see the world in your very narrow field of focus. Keep up the the fight against Zionism Jew hater maybe you'll get your Aryan nation yet. Since I am Jewish I will not be helping you.

Zionism is just as bad is Nazism. The UN proclaimed it as "racist" if you ever knew. Any fundmentalism is wrong Jazi. I like that Jazi, I need to write that down.What you are doing to the palistinian people is no better than what Hitler did to you.

My friends family owned a large piece of land in Isarel. But were promptly kicked off, when Isarel seized their land. They took everything.

Isarel is a terrorist state, as much as Afghanistan. It is a opperesive, wretched regime.

No more American blood for Isarel!

Wouldn't zazi be more apropos? :rolleyes:

After all, not all jews are zionists, and not all zionists are jews.

YESSS!!! A NEW ALANSYISM THREAD!!!! GOOD FUN SHALL BE HAD BY ALL!!!!

FLAMEWAR COMMENCE!!!!

Wouldn't zazi be more apropos?

After all, not all jews are zionists, and not all zionists are jews.

How about ZioNazis.

Catch the fever!!!!

/me spots topic; starts watching it closely.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

/me spots topic; starts watching it closely.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Oh no, the ever present eye of big brother. While we have such prestigious company, what do you think Cogy? Jazis, Zazis, or ZioNazis, or do you have a suggestion?

<Ze mods are quick, saiz ze Gestapo>

I think Zazi sounds good

I think Zazi sounds good

Dammit!! I thought ZioNazi was a winner.

Edit: I still think it would be a memorable name for a horse.

Not all jews are like that, no more than all Germans were nazis. All I have to say. Good day.

Islam is nazism and the dominant political force in the Arab world is National - Socialism, aja Nazism.

Not all jews are like that, no more than all Germans were nazis. All I have to say. Good day.

I agree. This is an anti zionist thread, not anti-jewish.

Oh no, the ever present eye of big brother. While we have such prestigious company, what do you think Cogy? Jazis, Zazis, or ZioNazis, or do you have a suggestion?
I think everyone should avoid namecalling; it might constitute trolling or flamebait.

If you want to present a logical argument for why Israel is a terrorist state, then go right ahead: List examples, cite your sources, and point out the important patterns. Civil political debate is encouraged on NationStates. "Why is Israel a terrorist state? Well, look at their history: Item 1, Item 2, Item 3, Item 4...." "Why is Zionism like Nazism? Well, look at the parallels: Item A, Item B, Item C, Item D...."

Just be aware that making up names to call groups of people may not fall under the category of civil debate. If this degardes into a flamewar or trollfest, I'm going to lock it.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Edit: I still think it would be a memorable name for a horse.

Islamonazi and Islamofascist are more established terms than the ones you're throwing about here. That's because they refer to something real, the phenomenon of Islamic fascism, and not something that only exists in your head.

Comparing Jews to nazis is Jew hatred by definition.

Article on MUSLIM SS UNITS

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_collaboration.htm

How do you define nazism?

I do support the UN statement that zionism is equal to racism. To say that one race has the exclusive right to live in a specific territory is almost an exact definition of racism, while it's the basic idea of zionism.

Anyway, I think few people in Israel support the idea of zionism, so making any statements about Israel as a whole (e.g.: "No more American blood for Israel!(sic)" makes no sense in this context.

Islamonazi and Islamofascist are more established terms than the ones you're throwing about here. That's because they refer to something real, the phenomenon of Islamic fascism, and not something that only exists in your head.

Comparing Jews to nazis is Jew hatred by definition.

Article on MUSLIM SS UNITS

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_collaboration.htm

No, we are comparing Zionists to Nazis, not jews. Get that threw your thick fundmentalistic Arab-hating skull.

I think everyone should avoid namecalling; it might constitute trolling or flamebait.

If you want to present a logical argument for why Israel is a terrorist state, then go right ahead: List examples, cite your sources, and point out the important patterns. Civil political debate is encouraged on NationStates. "Why is Israel a terrorist state? Well, look at their history: Item 1, Item 2, Item 3, Item 4...." "Why is Zionism like Nazism? Well, look at the parallels: Item A, Item B, Item C, Item D...."

Just be aware that making up names to call groups of people may not fall under the category of civil debate. If this degardes into a flamewar or trollfest, I'm going to lock it.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Islamonazi and Islamofascist are more established terms than the ones you're throwing about here. That's because they refer to something real, the phenomenon of Islamic fascism, and not something that only exists in your head.

Comparing Jews to nazis is Jew hatred by definition.

Article on MUSLIM SS UNITS

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yug...llaboration.htm

Calm down guys, I am personally against generalization of any religion. However, I find calling anyone a nazi absurd, let alone Jews. And the thought of ZioNazi as the name of a horse in the Kentucky Derby tickles my soul.

That and hilarity will ensue once the reactionaries see this thread, and I will sit back and laugh.

Fuck You Nazi Bitches!!

I do support the UN statement that zionism is equal to racism.
This was revoked on 16 December 1991, with a vote of 111 to 25, so I take it you equally realise that the original statement was itself a racist statement aimed at vilifying Israel and deflecting attention from Islamofascist atrocities?

No, we are comparing Zionists to Nazis, not jews. Get that threw your thick fundmentalistic Arab-hating skull.
Actually, we aren't. All you did was make an assertion, and then refuse to back it up.

How do you define nazism?

I do support the UN statement that zionism is equal to racism. To say that one race has the exclusive right to live in a specific territory is almost an exact definition of racism, while it's the basic idea of zionism.

Anyway, I think few people in Israel support the idea of zionism, so making any statements about Israel as a whole (e.g.: "No more American blood for Israel!(sic)" makes no sense in this context.

Well we give that miserable lump of shit 60 billion dollars every year. And we become involved in middle eastern conflicts becuase of them.

Bin Laden said if America withdrew from Isarel, their would be no more terroist threats or attacks.

Oh, just go blow your vitriol out your spout-holes.

Well we give that miserable lump of shit 60 billion dollars every year. And we become involved in middle eastern conflicts becuase of them.

Bin Laden said if America withdrew from Isarel, their would be no more terroist threats or attacks.
And Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman. Point?

No, we are comparing Zionists to Nazis, not jews. Get that threw your thick fundmentalistic Arab-hating skull.

Yes!!! The first shots have been fired!!!

Generalizing is never right. Not everyone on either side hates the other. I'm fairly sure about 90% of people on both sides would just prefer it if they could all get along and live in peace. It is a sad fact that Israel's recent actions do sometimes remind one more of the 3rd reich than anyone else, but that has probably more to do with the extremists in power than the people themselves.

Arammanar and now Dobbs Town!!!

Lines are being drawn!!!

This was revoked on 16 December 1991, with a vote of 111 to 25, so I take it you equally realise that the original statement was itself a racist statement aimed at vilifying Israel and deflecting attention from Islamofascist atrocities?

What about the ZioNazi attrocities? My friends land, the bombings of Palestinian buildings. You my friend, are a zionist.
Just becuase six million jews died 60 years ago, doesn't mean they are perfect, angelic human beings.
Every race is capable of hate, not just whites. You honestly hate the Arab race.
How is it racist to attack AN IDEA. Yes, Zionists are not a race, they are a political faction.

Generalizing is never right. Not everyone on either side hates the other. I'm fairly sure about 90% of people on both sides would just prefer it if they could all get along and live in peace. It is a sad fact that Israel's recent actions do sometimes remind one more of the 3rd reich than anyone else, but that has probably more to do with the extremists in power than the people themselves.

Quit it, no more rationality.

You my friend, are a zionist.
Do give yourself a big pat on the back for spotting it.
No, we are comparing Zionists to Nazis, not jews. Get that threw your thick fundmentalistic Arab-hating skull.
I am a Zionist and a member of a Zionist youth organisation. I'm not an Israeli and I'm an atheist. I don't believe any races are superior to others, I'm not a social Darwinist and I'm not anti-semitic, which is the key indicator of Nazism.

But as you obviously know better, please explain to me why I'm a Nazi.

What about the ZioNazi attrocities? My friends land, the bombings of Palestinian buildings. You my friend, are a zionist.
Just becuase six million jews died 60 years ago, doesn't mean they are perfect, angelic human beings.
Every race is capable of hate, not just whites. You honestly hate the Arab race.
How is it racist to attack AN IDEA. Yes, Zionists are not a race, they are a political faction.
Your friend's countrymen tried to exterminate the Jews through GENOCIDE. That sort of reminds of me of one of Germany's Reichs...the mass extermination of Jews because they exist?

Quit it, no more rationality.
Excuse me? This is not a place intended for rampant flaming, but rather the intelligent discussion of issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Consul Augustus
I do support the UN statement that zionism is equal to racism.


This was revoked on 16 December 1991, with a vote of 111 to 25, so I take it you equally realise that the original statement was itself a racist statement aimed at vilifying Israel and deflecting attention from Islamofascist atrocities?

I don't know what the purpose of that un statement was, but wouldnt you agree that it's correct? Isn't it racism to award exclusive rights to a people based on their race?

And Bill Clinton said he did not have sex with that woman. Point?

We need to withdraw from Isarel.

Having sex out of wedlock doesn't kill American service men, or mutilate Iraqi children(if you don't get the reference go jump off a cliff)

This thread is bulls*** flamebait for mouth-breathers, boys. Can't you do any better?

We need to withdraw from Isarel.

Having sex out of wedlock doesn't kill American service men, or mutilate Iraqi children(if you don't get the reference go jump off a cliff)
My point was that politicians lie. Bin Laden is a politician. He'll no sooner stop attacking us then Palestine will accept a Jewish state.

Do give yourself a big pat on the back for spotting it.

I am a Zionist and a member of a Zionist youth organisation. I'm not an Israeli and I'm an atheist. I don't believe any races are superior to others, I'm not a social Darwinist and I'm not anti-semitic, which is the key indicator of Nazism.

But as you obviously know better, please explain to me why I'm a Nazi.

Zionism shares the the Nazi ideology by:

1. Discrimination based on race, or relegion

2. Imperalism

3. Nationalism

4. Both are ruthless and millitant

Why the fuck are you a zionist if your an atheist? That doesn't make any sense to me

Excuse me? This is not a place intended for rampant flaming, but rather the intelligent discussion of issues.

No. You're now in an alansyist thread. The normal rules do not pertain.

My point was that politicians lie. Bin Laden is a politician. He'll no sooner stop attacking us then Palestine will accept a Jewish state.

Bin Laden wants the US to withdraw from Isarel. He wants us to stop showing favor to Isarel. Once Isarel no longer exists he will be content.

Zionism shares the the Nazi ideology by:

1. Discrimination based on race, or relegion

2. Imperalism

3. Nationalism

4. Both are ruthless and millitant

Why the fuck are you a zionist if your an atheist? That doesn't make any sense to me
They aren't discriminating, they're surviving. If every suicide bomber in your country was an Arab, you'd be a little hostile towards them too. And Imperalism is total bullshit, Israel could conquer the whole middle east if they felt like it. They have far more self-restraint than anyone else on the earth.

I don't know what the purpose of that un statement was, but wouldnt you agree that it's correct? Isn't it racism to award exclusive rights to a people based on their race?

Yes, which is why it was revoked. Compare the number of Arab members of the Knesset to the number of Jewish members of Arab parliaments. Arabs accusing Israel of racism is the most outrageous hypocrisy it's staggering.

Bin Laden wants the US to withdraw from Isarel. He wants us to stop showing favor to Isarel. Once Isarel no longer exists he will be content.
HAHAHAHAAHAHHA! Just like Hitler would be content with Sudenland? Or Poland? Or Belgium? HAHAHAAHA!

Excuse me? This is not a place intended for rampant flaming, but rather the intelligent discussion of issues.

Not this thread, Neo Alansyism has a history of posting inflammatory posts and then escalating them into all out flame wars. Im trying to kill the thread, as there are many established Israel/Palestine threads on here that will be around longer than this one.

Edit: I meant no offense to you, either. I apologize if it seemed that way.

No. You're now in an alansyist thread. The normal rules do not pertain.

Hey I won't report anyone to the mods, and I expect the same. Only a little bitch would go whining to the mods.


Anyways doesn't anyone realize my threads are about kindness and the advancment of humanity. MY threads are about peace and civil rights. They're about fairness, and selflessness.
They attack hypocrisy. IF this wrong, then the world has gone insane.

Not this thread, Neo Alansyism has a history of posting inflammatory posts and then escalating them into all out flame wars. Im trying to kill the thread, as there are many established Israel/Palestine threads on here that will be around longer than this one.

Edit: I meant no offense to you, either. I apologize if it seemed that way.

Shhh!

I'm trying to watch the show.

No. You're now in an alansyist thread. The normal rules do not pertain.
Somehow I doubt that the mods will agree with you. Yesterday there were no fever than SIX threads started about either Arafat, or the situation between Israel and the Palestinians. All were locked within a matter of hours as the lot of them had devolved into flame wars, and this one is heading the same way.

1. Discrimination based on race, or relegion

2. Imperalism

3. Nationalism

4. Both are ruthless and millitant

This describes the majority of Arab countries perfectly, well done.

Yes, which is why it was revoked. Compare the number of Arab members of the Knesset to the number of Jewish members of Arab parliaments. Arabs accusing Israel of racism is the most outrageous hypocrisy it's staggering.

It's a bit sad that i have to quote myself, but i've allready said that i don't regard israel a zionistic state.

Here you go:
Anyway, I think few people in Israel support the idea of zionism, so making any statements about Israel as a whole (e.g.: "No more American blood for Israel!(sic)" makes no sense in this context.

Maybe we should define zionism first?

Hey I want report anyone to the mods, and I expect the same. Only a little bitch would go whining to the mods.


Anyways doesn't anyone realize my threads are about kindness and the advancment of humanity. MY threads are about peace and civil rights. They're about fairness, and selflessness.
They attack hypocrisy. IF this wrong, then the world has gone insane.
Your threads are about idiocy. They advance nothing, they are built on unsubstansiated lies purported to be "discussion." They're flamebait, because you probably get a chubby out of pissing people off. You still haven't proved that Jews have any ties to a now defunct German political party.

Yes, which is why it was revoked. Compare the number of Arab members of the Knesset to the number of Jewish members of Arab parliaments. Arabs accusing Israel of racism is the most outrageous hypocrisy it's staggering.

Maybe becuase their aren't any jews in Iraq, Iran, or Saudi Arabia? While they're plenty of Arabs in Isarel.

Think, come on, you can do it.

Not this thread, Neo Alansyism has a history of posting inflammatory posts and then escalating them into all out flame wars. Im trying to kill the thread, as there are many established Israel/Palestine threads on here that will be around longer than this one.

Edit: I meant no offense to you, either. I apologize if it seemed that way.
All right, apology accepted. But my point about both sides stand. While extremists hold the power, on either side, there, to my everlasting regret, can be no peace in the Middle East. Sad, but true.

Maybe becuase their aren't any jews in Iraq, Iran, or Saudi Arabia? While they're plenty of Arabs in Isarel.

Think, come on, you can do it.
And why aren't there any Jews? Probably the whole kill on sight thing they've come to deal with.

The word "Zionist" is derived from the word "Zion" (Hebrew: ציון, Tziyyon), being one of the names of Jerusalem, as mentioned in the Bible. It was coined by an Austrian Jewish publicist Nathan Birnbaum in his journal Self Emancipation in 1890.

Zionism has always had both religious and secular aspects, reflecting the dual nature of Jewish identity, as both a religion (Judaism) and as a national or ethnic identity (Jewishness). Many religious Jews opposed Zionism, while some of the founders of the State of Israel were atheists.

Religious Jews believe that since the land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael) was given to the ancient Israelites by God, the right of the Jews to that land is permanent and inalienable. To generations of diaspora Jews, Zion has been a symbol of the Holy Land and of their return to it, as promised by God in Biblical prophecies. (See also Jerusalem, Jews and Judaism)

Despite this, many religious Jews were not enthusiastic about Zionism before the 1930s, and many religious organisations opposed it on the grounds that an attempt to re-establish Jewish rule in Israel by human agency is blasphemous, since only the Messiah can accomplish this. The secular, socialist language used by many pioneer Zionists was contrary to the outlook of most religious Jewish communities. There was, however, a small but vocal group of religious Jews, led by the Chief Rabbi of Palestine, Abraham Isaac Kook, that supported Zionism and cooperation with the secular majority in Palestine. Only the desperate circumstances of the 1930s and 1940s converted most (though not all) of these communities to Zionism.

Secular Jewish opinion was also ambivalent in its attitudes to Zionism. Many argued that Jews should join with other progressive forces in bringing about changes which would eradicate anti-Semitism and make it possible for Jews to live in safety in the various countries where they lived. Before the 1930s, many Jews believed that socialism offered a better strategy for improving the lot of European Jews. In the United States, most Jews embraced the liberalism of their adopted country. By some estimates, before World War II only 20–25 percent of Jews worldwide supported Zionism, with most others either opposed or lukewarm to it.

The chain of events between 1881 and 1945, however, beginning with waves of anti-Semitic pogroms in Russia and the Russian controlled areas of Poland, and culminating in the Holocaust, converted the great majority of surviving Jews to the belief that a Jewish homeland was an urgent necessity, particularly given the large population of disenfranchised Jewish refugees after World War II. Most also became convinced that Palestine was the only location that was both acceptable to all strands of Jewish thought and within the realms of practical possibility. This led to the great majority of Jews supporting the struggle between 1945 and 1948 to establish the State of Israel, though many did not condone the violent tactics used by some Zionist groups, such as the Irgun Zvai-Leumi.

Since 1948 most Jews have continued to identify as Zionists, in the sense that they support the State of Israel even if they do not choose to live there. This worldwide support has been of vital importance to Israel, both politically and financially. This has been particularly true since 1967, as the rise of Palestinian nationalism and the resulting political and military struggles have eroded sympathy for Israel among non-Jews, at least outside the United States. In recent years, many Jews have criticised the morality and expediency of Israel's continued occupation of the territories captured in 1967.
[edit]

Establishment of the Zionist Movement
Theodor Herzl
Enlarge
Theodor Herzl

The desire of Jews to return to their ancestral homeland became a universal Jewish theme after the defeat of the Great Jewish Revolt and destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Empire in the year 70, the defeat of Bar Kochba's revolt in 135, and the dispersal of the Jews to other parts of the Empire that followed. Until the rise of ideological and political Zionism, however, most Jews believed that the Jewish people would only return to Israel with the coming of the Messiah, that is, after divine intervention.

The emancipation of Jews in European countries in the 18th and 19th centuries following the French Revolution, and the spread of western liberal ideas among a section of newly emancipated Jews, created for the first time a class of secular Jews, who absorbed the prevailing ideas of rationalism, romanticism and, most importantly, nationalism. Jews who had abandoned Judaism, at least in its traditional forms, began to develop a new Jewish identity, as a "nation" in the European sense. They were inspired by various national struggles, such as those for German and Italian unification, and for Polish and Hungarian independence. If Italians and Poles were entitled to a homeland, they asked, why were Jews not so entitled?

Before the 1890s there had already been attempts to settle Jews in Palestine, which was in the 19th century a part of the Ottoman Empire, inhabited by about 450,000 people, mostly Muslim and Christian Arabs (although there had never been a time when there were no Jews in Palestine). Pogroms in Russia led Jewish philanthropists such as the Montefiores and the Rothschilds to sponsor agricultural settlements for Russian Jews in Palestine in the late 1870s, culminating in a small group of immigrants from Russia arriving in the country in 1882. This has become known in Zionist history as the First Aliyah (aliyah is a Hebrew word meaning "ascent.").
The first aliyah: Biluim used to wear the traditional Arab headdress, the kuffiyeh
Enlarge
The first aliyah: Biluim used to wear the traditional Arab headdress, the kuffiyeh

Proto-Zionist groups such as Hibbat Zion where active in the 1880s in Eastern Europe were emancipation had not occurred to the extent it did in Western Europe (or at all.)The massive anti-Jewish riots following the assassination of Tsar Alexander II made emancipation seem farther than ever and influenced Judah Leib Pinsker to publish the pamphlet Auto-Emancipation in January 1, 1882. The pamphlet became influential for the Political Zionism movement.

There had also been several Jewish thinkers such as Moses Hess whose 1862 work Rome and Jerusalem; The Last National Question argued for the Jews to settle in Palestine as a means of settling the national question. Hess proposed a socialist state in which the Jews would become agrarianised through a process of "redemption of the soil" which would transform the Jewish community into a true nation in that Jews would occupy the productive layers of society rather than being an intermediary non-productive merchant class which is how he perceived European Jews. Hess, along with later thinkers such as Nahum Syrkin and Ber Borochov, is considered a founder of Socialist Zionism and Labour Zionism and one of the intellectual forebears of the kibbutz movement.

A key event triggering the modern Zionist movement was the Dreyfus Affair, which erupted in France in 1894. Jews were profoundly shocked to see this outbreak of anti-Semitism in a country which they thought of as the home of enlightenment and liberty. Among those who witnessed the Affair was an Austrian-Jewish journalist, Theodor Herzl, who published his pamphlet Der Judenstaat ("The Jewish State") in 1896. Prior to the Affair, Herzl had been anti-Zionist, afterwards he became ardently pro-Zionist. In 1897 Herzl organised the First Zionist Congress in Basel, Switzerland, which founded the World Zionist Organisation (WZO) and elected Herzl as its first President.
[edit]

Zionist strategies

The WZO's initial strategy was to obtain the permission of the Ottoman Sultan to allow systematic Jewish settlement in Palestine. The good offices of the German Emperor, Wilhelm II, were sought, but nothing came of this. Instead the WZO pursued a strategy of building a homeland through persistent small-scale immigration, and the founding of such bodies as the Jewish National Fund in 1901 and the Anglo-Palestine Bank in 1903.

Before 1917 some Zionist leaders took seriously proposals for Jewish homelands in places other than Palestine. Herzl's Der Judenstaat argued for a Jewish state in either Palestine, "our ever-memorable historic home", or Argentina, "one of the most fertile countries in the world". In 1903 British cabinet ministers suggested a Jewish state in Uganda (actually in Kenya). Herzl initially rejected the idea, preferring Palestine, but after the April 1903 Kishinev pogroms Herzl introduced a controversial proposal to the 6th Zionist Congress to investigate the offer as a temporary measure for Russian Jews in danger. Notwithstanding its emergency and temporary nature, the proposal still proved very divisive, and sparked a walkout led by the Russian Jewish delegation to the Congress. Nevertheless, a majority voted to establish a committee for the investigation of the possibility, and it was not dismissed until the 7th Zionist Congress in 1905.

In response to this, the Jewish Territorialist Organization led by Israel Zangwill split off from the main Zionist movement. The territorialists attempted to establish a Jewish homeland wherever possible, but went into decline after 1917 and were dissolved in 1925. From that time Palestine was the sole focus of Zionist aspirations. Few Jews took seriously the establishment by the Soviet Union of a Jewish Autonomous Republic in the Russian Far East.
Chaim Weizmann
Enlarge
Chaim Weizmann

One of the major motivations for Zionism was the belief that the Jews needed a country of their own, not just as a refuge from anti-Semitism, but in order to become a "normal people." Some Zionists, mainly socialist Zionists, believed that the Jews' centuries of marginalised existence in anti-Semitic societies had distorted the Jewish character, reducing Jews to a parasitic existence which further fostered anti-Semitism. They argued that Jews should redeem themselves from their history by becoming farmers, workers, and soldiers in a country of their own. These Zionists generally rejected religion as perpetuating a "Diaspora mentality" among the Jewish people.

One such Zionist ideologue, Ber Borochov, continuing from the work of Moses Hess, proposed the creation of a society based on an "inverted pyramid," where the "proletariat," both Jewish and Arab, dominated the society. Another, A. D. Gordon, was influenced by the volkisch ideas of European romantic nationalism, and proposed establishing a society of Jewish peasants. These two thinkers, and others like them, motivated the establishment of the first Jewish collective settlement, or kibbutz, Deganiah, on the southern shore of the Sea of Galilee, in 1909 (the same year that the city of Tel Aviv was established). Deganiah, and many other kibbutzim that were soon to follow, attempted to realise these thinkers' vision by creating a communal villages, where newly arrived European Jews would be taught agriculture and other manual skills.

Another aspect of this strategy was the revival and fostering of an "indigenous" Jewish culture and the Hebrew language. One early Zionist thinker, Asher Ginsberg, better known by his penname Ahad Ha'am ("One of the People") rejected what he regarded as the over-emphasis of political Zionism on statehood, at the expense of the revival of Hebrew culture. Ahad Ha'am recognised that the effort to achieve independence in Palestine would bring Jews into conflict with the native Palestinian Arab population, as well as with the Ottomans and European colonial powers then eying the country. Instead, he proposed that the emphasis of the Zionist movement shift to efforts to revive the Hebrew language and create a new culture, free from Diaspora influences, that would unite Jews and serve as a common denominator between diverse Jewish communities once independence was achieved.

The most prominent follower of this idea was Eliezer Ben Yehudah, a linguist intent on reviving Hebrew as a spoken language among Jews (see History of the Hebrew language). Most European Jews in the 19th century spoke Yiddish, a language based on mediaeval German, but as of the 1880s, Ben Yehudah and his supporters began promoting the use and teaching of a modernised form of biblical Hebrew, which had not been a living language for nearly 2,000 years. Despite Herzl's efforts to have German proclaimed the official language of the Zionist movement, the use of Hebrew was adopted as official policy by Zionist organisations in Palestine, and served as an important unifying force among the Jewish settlers, many of whom also took new Hebrew names.

The development of the first Hebrew-speaking city (Tel Aviv), the kibbutz movement, and other Jewish economic institutions, plus the use of Hebrew, began by the 1920s to lay the foundations of a new nationality, which would come into formal existence in 1948. Meanwhile, other cultural Zionists attempted to create new Jewish artforms, including graphic arts. (Boris Schatz, a Bulgarian artist, founded the Bezalel Academy of Arts and Design in Jerusalem in 1906.) Others, such as dancer and artist Baruch Agadati, fostered popular festivals such as the Adloyada carnival on Purim.

The Zionist leaders always saw Britain as a key potential ally in the struggle for a Jewish homeland. Not only was Britain the world's greatest imperial power; it was also a country where Jews lived in peace and security, among them influential political and cultural leaders, such as Benjamin Disraeli and Walter, Lord Rothschild. There was also a peculiar streak of philo-Semitism among the classically educated British elite to which the Zionist leaders hoped to appeal, just as the Greek independence movement had appealed to British phil-Hellenism during the Greek War of Independence. Chaim Weizmann, who became the leader of the Zionist movement after Herzl's death in 1904, was a professor at a British university, and used his extensive contacts to lobby the British government for a statement in support of Zionist aspirations.

This hope was realised in 1917, when the British Foreign Secretary, Arthur Balfour, made his famous Declaration in favour of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Balfour was motived partly by philo-Semitic sentiment, partly by a desire to weaken the Ottoman Empire (an ally of Germany during the First World War), and partly by a desire to strengthen support for the Allied cause in the United States, home to the world's most influental Jewish community. In the Declaration, however, Balfour was careful to use the word "homeland" rather than "state," and also to specify that the establishment of a Jewish homeland must not "prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."
[edit]

Zionism and the Arabs

The early Zionists were well aware that Palestine was already occupied by Arabs, who had constituted the overwhelming majority (95% in 1880) of the population there for over a thousand years, but thought that they could only benefit from Jewish immigration. This attitude led to the opposition of the Arabs being ignored, or even to their presence being denied, as in Israel Zangwill's famous slogan "A land without a people, for a people without a land". Generally though, such myths were propaganda invented by leaders who didn't think of the Arabs as an obstacle as serious as the big empires. It was hoped that the wishes of the local Arabs could be simply bypassed by forging agreements with the Ottoman authorities, or with Arab rulers outside Palestine.

One of the earlier Zionists to warn against these ideas was Ahad Ha'am, who warned in his 1891 essay "Truth from Eretz Israel" that in Palestine "it is hard to find tillable land that is not already tilled", and moreover

From abroad we are accustomed to believing that the Arabs are all desert savages, like donkeys, who neither see nor understand what goes on around them. But this is a big mistake... The Arabs, and especially those in the cities, understand our deeds and our desires in Eretz Israel, but they keep quiet and pretend not to understand, since they do not see our present activities as a threat to their future... However, if the time comes when the life of our people in Eretz Israel develops to the point of encroaching upon the native population, they will not easily yield their place.

Though there had already been Arab protests to the Ottoman authorities in the 1880s against land sales to foreign Jews, the most serious opposition began in the 1890s after the full scope of the Zionist enterprise became known. This opposition did not arise out of Palestinian nationalism, which was in its mere infancy at the time, but out of a sense of threat to the livelihood of the Arabs. This sense was heightened in the early years of the 20th century by the Zionist attempts to develop an economy in which Arabs were largely redundant, such as the "Hebrew labor" movement that campaigned against the employment of Arabs. The severing of Palestine from the rest of the Arab world in 1918 and the Balfour Declaration were seen by the Arabs as proof that their fears were coming to fruition.
Vladimir Jabotinsky
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Vladimir Jabotinsky

Nevertheless, despite clear signs that a true Palestinian nationalism was rising, much the same range of opinion could be found among Zionist leaders after 1920. However, the division between these camps did not match the main threads in Zionist politics so cleanly as is often portrayed. To take an example, the leader of the Revisionist Zionists, Vladimir Jabotinsky, is often presented as having had an extreme pro-expulsion view but the proofs offered for this are rather thin. According to Jabotinsky's Iron Wall (1923), an agreement with the Arabs was impossible, since they

look upon Palestine with the same instinctive love and true fervor that any Aztec looked upon his Mexico or any Sioux looked upon his prairie. To think that the Arabs will voluntarily consent to the realization of Zionism in return for the cultural and economic benefits we can bestow on them is infantile.

The solution, according to Jabotinsky, was not expulsion (which he was "prepared to swear, for us and our descendants, that we will never [do]") but to impose the Jewish presence on the Arabs by force of arms until eventually they came to accept it. Only late in his life did Jabotinsky speak of the desirability of Arab emigration though still without unequivocally advocating an expulsion policy. After the World Zionist Organization rejected Jabotinsky's proposals, he resigned from the organization and founded the New Zionist Organization in 1933 to promote his views and work independently for immigration and the establishment of a state. The NZO rejoined the WZO in 1951.

The situation with socialist Zionists such as David Ben-Gurion was also ambiguous. In public Ben-Gurion upheld the official position of his party that denied the necessity of force in achieving Zionist goals. The argument was based on the denial of a unique Palestinian identity coupled with the belief that eventually the Arabs would realise that Zionism was to their advantage. Privately, however, Ben-Gurion believed that the Arab opposition amounted to a total rejection of Zionism grounded in fundamental principle, and that a confrontation was unavoidable. In 1937, Ben-Gurion and almost all of his party leadership supported a British proposal to create a small Jewish state from which the Arabs had been removed by force. The British plan was soon shelved, but the idea of a Jewish state with a minimal population of Arabs remained an important thread in Labour Zionist thought throughout the remaining period until the creation of Israel.

The attitude of the Zionist leaders towards the Arab population of Palestine in the lead-up to the 1948 conflict is one of the most hotly debated issues in Zionist history. This article does not cover it; see Israel-Palestinian conflict and Palestinian exodus.
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The struggle for Palestine

With the defeat and dismantlement of the Ottoman Empire in 1918, and the establishment of the British Mandate over Palestine by the League of Nations in 1922, the Zionist movement entered a new phase of activity. Its priorities were the escalation of Jewish settlement in Palestine, the building of the institutional foundations of a Jewish state, raising funds for these purposes, and persuading — or forcing — the British authorities not to take any steps which would lead to Palestine moving towards independence as an Arab-majority state. The 1920s did see a steady growth in the Jewish population and the construction of state-like Jewish institutions, but also saw the emergence of Palestinian Arab nationalism and growing resistance to Jewish immigration.

International Jewish opinion remained divided on the merits of the Zionist project. Many prominent Jews in Europe and the United States opposed Zionism, arguing that a Jewish homeland was not needed because Jews were able to live in the democratic countries of the West as equal citizens. Albert Einstein, one of the best-known Jews in the world, said: "I am afraid of the inner damage Judaism will sustain, especially from the development of a narrow nationalism within our own ranks." The many Jews who embraced socialism opposed Zionism as a form of reactionary nationalism. The General Jewish Labor Union, or Bund, which represented socialist Jews in eastern Europe, was strongly anti-Zionist.

The Communist parties, which attracted substantial Jewish support during the 1920s and 1930s, were even more virulently anti-Zionist, if one defines Zionism as the advocacy of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. During this time Communists actively promoted an alternative Jewish homeland — the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, or Birobidzhan, which had been set up by the Soviet Union in the Russian Far East.

At the other extreme, some American Jews went so far as to say that the United States was Zion, and the successful absorption of 2 million Jewish immigrants in the 30 years before the First World War lent force to this argument. (Some American Jewish socialists supported the Birobidzhan experiment, and a few even emigrated there during the Great Depression.)

The rise to power of Adolf Hitler in Germany in 1933 produced a powerful new impetus for Zionism. Not only did it create a flood of Jewish refugees — at a time when the United States had closed its doors to further immigration — but it undermined the faith of Jews that they could live in security as minorities in non-Jewish societies. Some Zionists allegedly supported the rise of the Nazi party, recognising that it would increase the possibility of a Jewish state. It is claimed by author Lenni Brenner that The Zionist Federation of Germany even sent Hitler a letter calling for collaboration in 1933; however the strongly anti-Semitic Nazis rejected the offer and later abolished the organisation in 1938. Jewish opinion began to shift in favour of Zionism, and pressure for more Jewish immigration to Palestine increased. But the more Jews settled in Palestine, the more aroused Palestinian Arab opinion became, and the more difficult the situation became in Palestine. In 1936 serious Arab rioting broke out, and in response the British authorities issued the White Paper, severely restricting further Jewish immigration.

The Jewish community in Palestine responded by organising armed forces, based on smaller units developed to defend remote agricultural settlements. Two military movements were founded, the Labor-dominated Haganah and the Revisionist Irgun. The latter group did not hesitate to take military action against the Arab population. With the advent of World War II, both groups decided that defeating Hitler took priority over the fight against the British. However, attacks against British targets were recommenced in 1940 by a splinter group of the Irgun, later known as Lehi, and in 1944 by the Irgun itself.

The revelation of the fate of six million European Jews killed during the Holocaust had several consequences. Firstly, it left hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees (or displaced persons) in camps in Europe, unable or unwilling to return to homes in countries which they felt had betrayed them to the Nazis. Not all of these refugees wanted to go to Palestine, and in fact many of them eventually went to other countries, but large numbers of them did, and they resorted to increasingly desperate measures to get there.
Harry S. Truman and David Ben-Gurion (Abba Eban behind)
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Harry S. Truman and David Ben-Gurion (Abba Eban behind)

Secondly, it evoked a world-wide feeling of sympathy with the Jewish people, mingled with guilt that more had not been done to deter Hitler's aggressions before the war, or to help Jews escape from Europe during its course. This was particularly the case in the United States, whose federal government had halted Jewish immigration during the war. Among those who became strong supporters of the Zionist ideal was President Harry S. Truman, who overrode considerable opposition in his State Department and used the great power of his position to mobilise support at the United Nations for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine; although it should be noted that he privately disliked Zionist Jews, and Jews in general. Since Britain was desperate to withdraw from Palestine, Truman's efforts were the crucial factor in the creation of Israel.

Thirdly, it swung world Jewish opinion almost unanimously behind the project of a Jewish state in Palestine, and within Palestine it led to a greater resolution to use force to achieve that objective. American Reform Judaism was among the elements of Jewish thought which changed their opinions about Zionism after the Holocaust. The proposition that Jews could live in peace and security in non-Jewish societies was certainly a difficult one to defend in 1945, although it is one of the ironies of Zionist history that in the decades since World War II anti-Semitism has greatly declined as a serious political force in most western countries, and Jewish communities continue to live and prosper outside Israel.
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Zionism and Israel

In 1947 Britain announced its intention to withdraw from Palestine, and on 29 November the United Nations General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state (with Jerusalem becoming an international enclave). Civil war between the Arabs and Jews in Palestine erupted immediately. On 14 May 1948 the leaders of the Jewish community in Palestine made a declaration of independence, and the state of Israel was established. This marked a major turning point in the Zionist movement, as its principal goal had now been accomplished. Many Zionist institutions were reshaped, and the three military movements combined to form the Israel Defence Forces.

The majority of the Arab population having either fled or been expelled during the War of Independence, Jews were now a majority of the population within the 1948 ceasefire lines, which became Israel's de facto borders until 1967. In 1950 the Knesset passed the Law of Return which granted all Jews the right to immigrate to Israel. This, together with the influx of Jewish refugees from Europe and the later flood of Jews from Arab countries, had the effect of creating a large and apparently permanent Jewish majority in Israel.

Since 1948 the international Zionist movement has undertaken a variety of roles in support of Israel. These have included the encouragement of immigration, assisting the absorption and integration of immigrants, fundraising on behalf of settlement and development projects in Israel, the encouragement of private capital investment in Israel, and mobilisation of world public opinion in support of Israel.

The 1967 war between Israel and the Arab states (the "Six-Day War") marked a major turning point in the history of Israel and of Zionism. Israeli forces occupied the eastern half of Jerusalem, including the holiest of Jewish religious sites, the Western Wall of the ancient Temple. They also occupied the remaining territories of pre-1948 Palestine, the West Bank (seized from Jordan) and the Gaza Strip (from Egypt). Religious Jews regarded the West Bank (ancient Judaea and Samaria) as an integral part of Eretz Israel, and within Israel voices of the political right soon began to argue that these territories should be permanently retained. Zionist groups began to build Jewish settlements in the territories as a means of establishing "facts on the ground" that would make an Israeli withdrawal impossible.

The 1968 conference of the WZO adopted the following principles:

* The unity of the Jewish people and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life
* The ingathering of the Jewish people in the historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through aliyah from all countries
* The strengthening of the State of Israel, based on the "prophetic vision of justice and peace"
* The preservation of the identity of the Jewish people through the fostering of Jewish, Hebrew and Zionist education and of Jewish spiritual and cultural values
* The protection of Jewish rights everywhere.

The occupation of the West Bank and Gaza placed Israel in the position of an occupying power over a large population of Palestinian Arabs. Whether or not there had been a distinct Palestinian national identity in the 1920s may be debated, but there is no doubt that by the 1960s such an identity was firmly established — the founders of Zionism had thus, ironically, created two new nationalities, Israeli and Palestinian, instead of one.

The faith of the Palestinians in the willingness and ability of the Arab states to defeat Israel and return Palestine to Arab rule was destroyed by the war, and the death of the most militant Arab leader, Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt, in 1969 reinforced the belief of Palestinians that they had been abandoned. The Palestine Liberation Organisation, created in 1965 as an Egyptian-controlled propaganda device, took on new life as an autonomous movement led by Yasser Arafat, and soon turned to terrorism as its principal means of struggle.

From this point the history of Israel and the Palestinians can be followed in the article Israel-Palestinian conflict.

In 1975 the United Nations General Assembly passed a resolution which said that "Zionism is a form of racism." This resolution was rescinded in 1991. This issue is discussed in the article on anti-Zionism.
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Zionism today

More than 50 years after the founding of the State of Israel, and after more than 80 years of Arab-Jewish conflict over the territory that is now Israel, many have misgivings about current Israeli policies. Some liberal or socialist Jews, as well as some Orthodox Jewish communities, still oppose Zionism as a matter of principle. Well-known Jewish scholars and statesmen who have opposed Zionism include Bruno Kreisky, Hans Fromm and Michael Selzer. In the United States Jewish intellectuals such as Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein have continued to oppose Zionism, although few argue that the Jewish settlement of Palestine should actually be reversed.

Criticism of Israeli policies in the occupied territories has become sharper since Ariel Sharon became Prime Minister of Israel. Some elements of Orthodox Judaism remain anti-Zionist, although mainstream Orthodox groups such as the Agudat Israel have changed their positions since 1948 and now actively support Israel, often assuming right-wing stances regarding important political questions such as the peace process. Today, the overwhelming majority of Jewish organisations and denominations are strongly pro-Zionist.

Among the important minority threads within Zionism is one that holds Israelis to be a new nationality, not merely the representatives of world Jewry. The "Canaanite" or "Hebrew Renaissance" movement led by poet Yonatan Ratosh in the 1930s and 1940s was built on this idea. A modern movement which is partly based on the same idea is known as Post-Zionism. There is no agreement on how this movement is defined, nor even of which persons belong to it, but the most common idea is that Israel should leave behind the concept of a "state of the Jewish people" and instead strive to be a state of all its citizens according to pluralistic democratic values. Self-identified Post-Zionists differ on many important details, such as the status of the Law of Return. Critics tend to associate Post-Zionism with anti-Zionism or postmodernism, both charges which are strenuously denied by proponents.

Another persistent opinion favors a binational state in which Arabs and Jews live together while enjoying some type of autonomy. Variants of the idea were proposed by Chaim Weizmann in the 1930s and by the Ichud (Unity) group in the 1940s, which included such prominent figures as Judah Magnes (first dean of The Hebrew University) and Martin Buber. The emergence of Israel as a Jewish state with a small Arab minority made the idea irrelevant, but it was revived after the 1967 war left Israel in control of a large Arab population. Never more than the opinion of a small minority, the idea is nevertheless supported by a few prominent intellectuals such as Noam Chomsky, the late Edward Said, and (since 2003) Meron Benvenisti. Opponents of a binational state argue that since Arabs would form the majority of the population in such a state, the Jewish character on which the state was founded may be lost.
[edit]

Non-Jewish Zionism

The question of whether a non-Jew can be a Zionist is a largely semantic one, akin to the question of whether a man can be a feminist. The websites of major Zionist organisations make it clear these are entirely Jewish organisations. The website of the American Zionist Organization (http://www.azm.org/), for example says: "The American Zionist Movement is a coalition of organizations and individuals devoted to the unity of the Jewish people and eternally connected to our homeland, Israel." (emphasis added)

There are nevertheless many non-Jews who support the State of Israel, and some of these may choose to define themselves as Zionists.

Non-Jewish support for Zionism takes three forms:

* The traditional support from the political left for the Jews as an oppressed people and for Israel as a semi-socialist state. Since the 1970s the first of these has been almost entirely lost as the left has shifted its sympathy to the Palestinians, while the second has been lost since the Israeli Labor Party lost its hold on power in 1977. In the United States, Israel continues to find support from most political liberals, but outside the U.S. this has largely evaporated.
* Support from political conservatives, mainly in the United States and to a lesser extent in other countries such as the United Kingdom. Much of this is really support for Israel as a pro-Western state rather than support for Zionism per se, and is also strongly motivated by domestic politics, particularly in the U.S.
* "Christian Zionism", a movement among evangelical Christians in the United States which sees the return of the Jews to the Holy Land as a fulfillment of Biblical prophecy. Christian Zionists also believe that most Jews will be killed and will "burn" in Hell while some will be converted to Christianity as a prelude to the second coming of Jesus, after which Christians will inherit the Holy Land; thus their ultimate goals differ greatly from those of Jewish Zionists. Lobbying by Christian groups in the United States on behalf of Israel has influenced U.S. policy towards the Middle East.

Hey I won't report anyone to the mods, and I expect the same. Only a little bitch would go whining to the mods.


Anyways doesn't anyone realize my threads are about kindness and the advancment of humanity. MY threads are about peace and civil rights. They're about fairness, and selflessness.
They attack hypocrisy. IF this wrong, then the world has gone insane.

Why would only a little bitch go whining to the mods? What if there are people out there who don't like you and wait for you to break the rules so they can pounce on you?

Your threads are rarely about kindness, the advancement of humanity, peace, civil rights, fairness, selflessness, or attacking hypocrisy. They are often about attacking groups or nations that you have distaste for, and it often involves name-calling or similarly childish tactics. I think this martyr complex you have for yourself is severly misguided.

Maybe becuase their aren't any jews in Iraq, Iran, or Saudi Arabia? While they're plenty of Arabs in Isarel.

Think, come on, you can do it.

*choke* You're astonishing. Do you know what happened to the Jews in Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia? I'm taking it you know that these countries all once had significant Jewish communities?

Not to mention that you completely missed my 'Arab parliaments' joke.

Hey I won't report anyone to the mods, and I expect the same. Only a little bitch would go whining to the mods.


Anyways doesn't anyone realize my threads are about kindness and the advancment of humanity. MY threads are about peace and civil rights. They're about fairness, and selflessness.
They attack hypocrisy. IF this wrong, then the world has gone insane.

You are against abortion, but they don't adopt children. Or support free-lunch programs, or welfare. You want the child to be born, but you won't pay for it.

You support the war, but you won't send your children, and you don't want to pay any taxes to support it.

How about you take your "patriotism" and "morals" and shove them.

You don't know the first thing about eitheir one of them. But you flippantly use the terms.

You should pick up a fucking biology book, and a dictionary. Instead of that piece of shit book written by a bunch of zionists and perverted fundementalists. And if you're not bright enough to realize what book I'm talking about, well you're just a dumbass.

(thread title:Repbulican (sic))
are hypocrits

Repbulican's support death, dictatorship, and hypocrisy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was a speech I gave in class. I didn't annonuce each number in the one part. I recieved a standing ovaitation, and later we called a little repbulican girl a "bitch." and we shall continue until she mends her ways.

I don't need to say anything.

*choke* You're astonishing. Do you know what happened to the Jews in Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia? I'm taking it you know that these countries all once had significance Jewish communities?

Iraq especially....

My friends family owned a large piece of land in Isarel. But were promptly kicked off, when Isarel seized their land. They took everything.

When was the piece of land taken? Recently?

I don't need to say anything.
Sometimes it's the best thing to do. (not meant as a insult at you, just generalizing myself). As this thread doesn't seem to serve any purpose, and I've made my point, I'm taking my leave of it. Somehow I can't see this thread lasting the day, even if no one reports any of the posts here.

Sometimes it's the best thing to do. (not meant as a insult at you, just generalizing myself). As this thread doesn't seem to serve any purpose, and I've made my point, I'm taking my leave of it. Somehow I can't see this thread lasting the day, even if no one reports any of the posts here.

I know, it's just fun to watch Alansyism get going, and the more fired up he gets the better. You can practically feel him smashing the keyboard keys as he types another rant.

Stay until the lock, it will only get better now that Arammanar has shown up, those two will go at it like cats and dogs.

Bottom line, regardless of our opinion of Israeli's or Zionists.....the land is theirs. The Hebrews descendant from Isaac have all the rights to that land, truth be told no one even knows 4 sure where these so called Palestinians came from. Some say they came from Crete others say they are a commradery of nomadic Arabs that came to form their own "nation" albeit they have no land & cannot trace their heritage. They simply showed up one day on Israels doorstep, talking about that was their land & they had returned 4 it :confused: . Bogus, I say send 'em packing, oh & its isnt it interesting how Biblical prophecy seems to come true regarding the nature of Arabs & the inherent hatred they have towards Jews, which all of them concur on. When Israel starts dropping nukes they all better watch out cause nobody over ther can mess w/ them in a full scale war!!!! :sniper: :mp5:

Bin Laden wants the US to withdraw from Isarel. He wants us to stop showing favor to Isarel. Once Isarel no longer exists he will be content.


There are no American troops in Israel.

There are no American troops in Israel.
Yeah, there aren't any US troops in israel.

Bottom line, regardless of our opinion of Israeli's or Zionists.....the land is theirs. The Hebrews descendant from Isaac have all the rights to that land, truth be told no one even knows 4 sure where these so called Palestinians came from. Some say they came from Crete others say they are a commradery of nomadic Arabs that came to form their own "nation" albeit they have no land & cannot trace their heritage. They simply showed up one day on Israels doorstep, talking about that was their land & they had returned 4 it :confused: . Bogus, I say send 'em packing, oh & its isnt it interesting how Biblical prophecy seems to come true regarding the nature of Arabs & the inherent hatred they have towards Jews, which all of them concur on. When Israel starts dropping nukes they all better watch out cause nobody over ther can mess w/ them in a full scale war!!!! :sniper: :mp5:

So let's give America back to the Iroquois, Cherokee, Navajo, etc.

Maybe becuase their aren't any jews in Iraq, Iran, or Saudi Arabia? While they're plenty of Arabs in Isarel.

Think, come on, you can do it.

have you ever wondered why there arent any Jews in saudi arabia (there are a few jews in these other countries)

did you know that there were pogroms of Jews in Baghdad before the creation of Israel, which might explain why most of the Jews in Iraq went to Israel on its creation

Of course it is impossible to be a citzen of Saudi (never mind in government if you are not a muslim)

i guess if youre not a Muslim you wont be in the Iranian Govt either

Check your facts before you post.

When was the piece of land taken? Recently?

No, a little after the establishment of Isarel. I'll check with him, and find out the exact date.

The Zionists are a religious group with the goal of claiming Israel is their homeland.

The Nazis were a group bent on obtaining world domination and setting a standard for human beings.

How exactly are these two similar? Zionism doesnt set a standard for what human beings must act like. They simply ask for what was promised to them by their god. The Nazis couldnt even come up with a reasonable explanation for their genocide.

So let's give America back to the Iroquois, Cherokee, Navajo, etc.
I agree. The land is theirs, and it was taken from them using some rather...dubios means...
*was agreeing to the point about the native Americans, btw*

I agree. The land is theirs, and it was taken from them using some rather...dubios means...
Except they stole it from each other. And originally, no one was here. Let's give this land back to the animals.

Alright, that's enough, this is turning into nothing but a flame war. iLock.

Stephanie
Game Moderator