NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/12/child.tasered.ap/index.html

So these cops used a 50,000 volt stun gun on a kid, after they were called in to an elementary school. I guess he was cutting himself with broken glass, and threatening a security guard. What do you think of this? Personally I think the lil' bastard deserved it. I wouldn't advocate parents using this technique, though.

What ever happened to the good old fashioned smacked bottom ?

Get with the times, we have technology now!

Why do we keep hearing stories out of Miami-Dade County?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/12/child.tasered.ap/index.html

So these cops used a 50,000 volt stun gun on a kid, after they were called in to an elementary school. I guess he was cutting himself with broken glass, and threatening a security guard. What do you think of this? Personally I think the lil' bastard deserved it. I wouldn't advocate parents using this technique, though.

They did the right thing. I work in a BD/LD school and even some of the little ones can be dangerous. The kid threatened bodily harm to himself and to the officials. Had they gotten close, he most likely would have tried to hurt someone. By zapping him from a distance, it increased the chances that noone would get harmed.

Stun guns are best served by use on 12-17 year olds. Daily. Without reason. At random times.

That's what they are designed to do, stop people without using deadly force or physical contact. :mp5:

Bunch of pussies. Whatever happened to rubber bullets?

Some 95 year old was looking at me funny and was slowly coming at me. I felt threatened so I pepper sprayed him then used a tazer. I was lucky that he wasn't able to attack me.

Stun guns are best served by use on 12-17 year olds. Daily. Without reason. At random times.

Too much work. I say programmed shock collars.

Too much work. I say programmed shock collars.

Even better!

Some 95 year old was looking at me funny and was slowly coming at me. I felt threatened so I pepper sprayed him then used a tazer. I was lucky that he wasn't able to attack me.

If you really had done that, the elderly would have burst into flames. Pepper spray is flammable. That's why most police officers are only allowed to carry one or the other.

If someone is trying to hurt themsevles, why would you then hurt them yourself?

If someone is trying to hurt themsevles, why would you then hurt them yourself?

Because you are that sort of kind and helpful individual.

Some 95 year old was looking at me funny and was slowly coming at me. I felt threatened so I pepper sprayed him then used a tazer. I was lucky that he wasn't able to attack me.
Is that fumbling sarcasm implying that this kid was harmless and they attacked him for no reason? *Anyone* irrational with *any* weapon is dangerous, and the police were perfectly justified in what they did. I'm usually against overzealous police use of force but I'm on their side on this one.

Originally Posted by The Arctic Badlands
If someone is trying to hurt themsevles, why would you then hurt them yourself?
Tasers, if used properly, cause no lasting damage. The kid gave himself a few scars, but the taser only stings for a few seconds.

I'd like to see more use of non-lethal weapons like this. Imagine how many lives could be saved if every police officer had one of those tasers that fires two electrodes out to zap someone from a distance.

Because there was a study done showing that any determined criminal can withstand even the strongest stun guns and tazers and still be able to stab, shoot, or go for the cop's gun.

Because there was a study done showing that any determined criminal can withstand even the strongest stun guns and tazers and still be able to stab, shoot, or go for the cop's gun.

Who conducted this study?

First, as a teacher, I can honestly say I think the police officers did the right thing. They stunned him, in my opinion, not to keep him from harming them but to prevent his further harm to himself. It's hard to sit and watch a 6 year-old cut himself to ribbons... hell, it's hard to watch anyone of any age do it. Anyway, there was a young man in my area who was shot dead by police in his home. His parents called the police because he was threatening to kill himself. He had a bread knife to his arm and began waving it at the police officers. If they'd used a taser instead, they wouldn't have helped this young man commit suicide (it's my belief, due to my experience with this age group, that the young man turned the knife from himself to the officers to provoke an armed attack... they gave him exactly what he wanted, death).

Regarding the shock collar (and similar) comments regarding teenagers... I know they're meant in gest, but I have to caution you people just a little. More than half the reason some of these teens are angry and confrontational (and apathetic) is because they are in a complex developmental stage that's met, not with more respect and a reasonable amount of extra (appropriate) responsibility but with automatic bias and attitude from adults who were previously enthralled and supportive of their every accomplishment. These kids, praised and attended to in earlier years, are now punished for their individuality and chastised for their desire to be respected as the young adults they are becoming. I teach teenagers (and have for several years), and the more I expect from them, the more they thrive as long as I respect them for their individuality. And I do... underneath it all (the angst, apathy, hormonal complications), they're really just good kids turning into good grownups.

First, as a teacher, I can honestly say I think the police officers did the right thing. They stunned him, in my opinion, not to keep him from harming them but to prevent his further harm to himself. It's hard to sit and watch a 6 year-old cut himself to ribbons... hell, it's hard to watch anyone of any age do it. Anyway, there was a young man in my area who was shot dead by police in his home. His parents called the police because he was threatening to kill himself. He had a bread knife to his arm and began waving it at the police officers. If they'd used a taser instead, they wouldn't have helped this young man commit suicide (it's my belief, due to my experience with this age group, that the young man turned the knife from himself to the officers to provoke an armed attack... they gave him exactly what he wanted, death).

Regarding the shock collar (and similar) comments regarding teenagers... I know they're meant in gest, but I have to caution you people just a little. More than half the reason some of these teens are angry and confrontational (and apathetic) is because they are in a complex developmental stage that's met, not with more respect and a reasonable amount of extra (appropriate) responsibility but with automatic bias and attitude from adults who were previously enthralled and supportive of their every accomplishment. These kids, praised and attended to in earlier years, are now punished for their individuality and chastised for their desire to be respected as the young adults they are becoming. I teach teenagers (and have for several years), and the more I expect from them, the more they thrive as long as I respect them for their individuality. And I do... underneath it all (the angst, apathy, hormonal complications), they're really just good kids turning into good grownups.

I work in an LD/BD school. This is a place where the kids are searched every morning and still try to sneak in drugs, weapons, etc. WHile it's not the majority, I know, this is the way they express their "individuality". Talking w/ them, most of them can't grasp the connection between getting in trouble and slashing someones tires (or worse) and instead blame the authorities or the person who called the police.

*tag*

Tasers, if used properly, cause no lasting damage. The kid gave himself a few scars, but the taser only stings for a few seconds.

I'd like to see more use of non-lethal weapons like this. Imagine how many lives could be saved if every police officer had one of those tasers that fires two electrodes out to zap someone from a distance.
I agree with your sentiments, but having to shoot out two electrodes can be tricky, I would imagine, and makes their usefulness limited.

What I'd prefer to see are cops carrying both tranquilizer guns and standard firearms; tranquilizers for most situations, and lethal ammunition for anything a tranq dart can't deal with. Tranquilizer darts (if they could be crafted into effective weapons) would be very useful in situations where you have innocent bystanders in the way; if you hit the wrong target with a tranqulizer dart, they'll be fine a few hours later (provided you don't hit them in the eye), but if you hit the wrong target with a bullet, then they may not live to see tomorrow.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

It's hard to sit and watch a 6 year-old cut himself to ribbons...

Yes ... that's why the adult in the room (ie. the TEACHER) should have just pushed the kid down and taken the damn piece of glass. The kid is 6 .... SIX! What kind of wimp-ass teacher was in that room that was incapable of taking something away from a clumsy, unfocused, uncoordinated 6 year old? Oh no ... the teach might have gotten cut ... ooooh ... heaven forbid!

Regarding the shock collar (and similar) comments regarding teenagers... I know they're meant in gest

No ... I was serious.

Oh ... and I'm a teacher as well. Speaking as a teacher, I would have grabbed the kid, pinned his arms to his side with one of my arms around him and simply plucked the glass away then called in the school nurse.

If I got cut in the process, I'd put a nice bandage on it and go on with class.

Yeesh, people.

Aye, but then you would not have been able to see the child tazered.

Yes ... that's why the adult in the room (ie. the TEACHER) should have just pushed the kid down and taken the damn piece of glass. The kid is 6 .... SIX! What kind of wimp-ass teacher was in that room that was incapable of taking something away from a clumsy, unfocused, uncoordinated 6 year old? Oh no ... the teach might have gotten cut ... ooooh ... heaven forbid!



No ... I was serious. Spare me the hippy crap.

Oh ... and I'm a teacher as well. Speaking as a teacher, I would have grabbed the kid, pinned his arms to his side with one of my arms around him and simply plucked the glass away then called in the school nurse.

If I got cut in the process, I'd put a nice bandage on it and go on with class.

Yeesh, people.


Like I said. The good old fashioned smacked bottom. Does wonders.

Aye, but then you would not have been able to see the child tazered.

Hmmm ... true. I'd probably also be sued for manhandling the child. Oh well ...

No ... I was serious. Spare me the hippy crap.
[Emphasis mine.]

This borders on flamebait. No official warning (yet), but I do recommend that you calm down a bit.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Game Moderator

...

Oh ... and I'm a teacher as well. Speaking as a teacher, I would have grabbed the kid, pinned his arms to his side with one of my arms around him and simply plucked the glass away then called in the school nurse.

If I got cut in the process, I'd put a nice bandage on it and go on with class.

Yeesh, people.
I imagine that this would depend upon the particular child you're dealing with. Not all 6-year-olds are uncoordinated, and it's quite possible that this particular child could have seriously cut himself before anybody could have gotten the glass out of his hand.

Yeah, rushing in and forcibly disarming the child would probably work, but if the outcome isn't certain (or close to certain), then caution may be called for.

I also note that the article explicitly states that this occured in the principals office, not a classroom.


Hmmm ... true. I'd probably also be sued for manhandling the child. Oh well ...
Yeah, sadly, some people will file a lawsuit at the drop of a hat. :\

In fact, I'm pleasantly surprised to see no mention of the parents of the kid threatening to sue the police.


--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

This borders on flamebait. No official warning (yet), but I do recommend that you calm down a bit.


Yeah ... sorry. I'll go edit it out.


In fact, I'm pleasantly surprised to see no mention of the parents of the kid threatening to sue the police.


Maybe nobody has suggested it to them yet. ;)

Yes ... that's why the adult in the room (ie. the TEACHER) should have just pushed the kid down and taken the damn piece of glass. The kid is 6 .... SIX! What kind of wimp-ass teacher was in that room that was incapable of taking something away from a clumsy, unfocused, uncoordinated 6 year old? Oh no ... the teach might have gotten cut ... ooooh ... heaven forbid!

Actually, the kid was in the principal's office... furthermore, if the police don't intervene, it's sometimes hard to get these kids the psychological help they obviously need. Third, even children with psychoses can sometimes exhibit almost superhuman strength. My friend (who is a social worker) had a client with a 5 year-old schitzophrenic son. That boy was physically capable of pinning a fully grown adult to the floor. They may be small, but they can also be a little more dangerous than you expect themto be.



No ... I was serious. Spare me the hippy crap.

Oh ... and I'm a teacher as well. Speaking as a teacher, I would have grabbed the kid, pinned his arms to his side with one of my arms around him and simply plucked the glass away then called in the school nurse.

If I got cut in the process, I'd put a nice bandage on it and go on with class.

Yeesh, people.

Funny... seems perhaps you don't like kids (regarding the seriousness of the shock-collar). I don't necessarily think it's "hippy crap" to determine that a young person's merits lie not in their chronological age but in their ability to adjust to their surroundings and become successful members of society. I, for example, was a high-achieving, responsible child. When I turned 13, for some reason my father was constantly annoyed with me. My behavior didn't change for the worse (my mother could corroborate that), but simply because I was officially "a teenager" I was treated like I pushed all the limits whether I did or not. Similarly, one of my friend's teenage sons is a high-achiever who is frequently responsible for his two younger brothers. He has a good attitude and is a smart, engaging young man. She treats him like he's some kind of rebel punk just because he's 14 years old. I never saw a more responsible young man. If you want to talk shock collars, perhaps we need to evaluate INDIVIDUAL PERSONALITY instead of just age. I know plenty of 30 somethings who need the same treatment.

Yeah, sadly, some people will file a lawsuit at the drop of a hat. :\

In fact, I'm pleasantly surprised to see no mention of the parents of the kid threatening to sue the police.


--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

At the end of the article, it does say the case is under review. Perhaps the officer's actions are being questioned?

Actually, the kid was in the principal's office

Okie ... so the Principal should have done it, then. The place isn't important, it's the circumstance that matters. Yes, kids with mental abberations can show great strength, but none of them are very fast. A calm, rational adult can find a way to take care of something.

Handling it immediately is far better than watching the kid cut himself while waiting for the police to show up.


Funny... seems perhaps you don't like kids (regarding the seriousness of the shock-collar).

Oh I like them just fine. I have three of them, myself, and I even used to be one! Teenagers, however, are not kids. They are possessed aliens.


I know plenty of 30 somethings who need the same treatment.

There would be a lot less of those if we hit them with the shock collars during the teenage years.

I work in an LD/BD school. This is a place where the kids are searched every morning and still try to sneak in drugs, weapons, etc. WHile it's not the majority, I know, this is the way they express their "individuality". Talking w/ them, most of them can't grasp the connection between getting in trouble and slashing someones tires (or worse) and instead blame the authorities or the person who called the police.

Heck, I'll be the first to agree with you. I've had some students with some pretty serious issues (up to and including schitzophrenia...). My complaint wasn't with anything but the general assumption that teenagers are jerks simply because they're teenagers. There has to be a certain amount of consideration for their level of maturity, life experiences/situation, and individual personalities. Sure, some are problem kids (some, when you see their behavior records, you know you'd rather they end up in someone else's class), but most of the kids I've taught over the past several years have been bright, engaging kids with great potential for success. I do hear you, though.

What is LD/BD? I'm not familiar with the abbreviation.

As a teenager, I have to disagree with Riven Dell. While I have great respect for the views of educators and others who must deal with my fellow adolescents on a daily basis, I feel that some are too naive, while others are too harsh.

Certainly shock collars are not the answer, as I have known many intelligent, calm, and rational kids. However, there are those who have not been raised as well ("well" in this case meaning "absorbing and assimilating important values and virtues") or who have not been exposed to the same healthy influences. Educators are not to blame for this, of course. The problem is one of society, and must be changed as such. Teaching curricula must be changed to include more lessons in ethics and basic morality. Teachers themselves should have some sort of legal protection from frivolous lawsuits. But most importantly of all, society must change to promote and glorify academic excellence and clean living. Until then, I and my friends will still be disgusted with the animal masses that teem the halls of our school.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/12/child.tasered.ap/index.html

So these cops used a 50,000 volt stun gun on a kid, after they were called in to an elementary school. I guess he was cutting himself with broken glass, and threatening a security guard. What do you think of this? Personally I think the lil' bastard deserved it. I wouldn't advocate parents using this technique, though.
simple solution - allow the cops to bitch slap people, there we go

"bad little kid" *slap*

why arnt kids allowed to be punished nowadays anyway? i got punished at least once a week when i was a kid


addition: they were afraid of a kid with glass? a SIX year old waving a piece of glass? ooh scary. i would've smacked some little kid

Certainly shock collars are not the answer, as I have known many intelligent, calm, and rational kids. However, there are those who have not been raised as well ("well" in this case meaning "absorbing and assimilating important values and virtues") or who have not been exposed to the same healthy influences. Educators are not to blame for this, of course. The problem is one of society, and must be changed as such. Teaching curricula must be changed to include more lessons in ethics and basic morality. Teachers themselves should have some sort of legal protection from frivolous lawsuits. But most importantly of all, society must change to promote and glorify academic excellence and clean living. Until then, I and my friends will still be disgusted with the animal masses that teem the halls of our school.

Mmkay ... perhaps you shall be spared the collar.

While I don't like the idea of using a stun gun on a kid that young, the officers on duty really didn't have much of a choice and did the only thing he could have feasably done. It's sort of like WWII, damned if you do (slaughter of millions of civilians) damned if you don't (Hitler counquering the world). While that's a bit extreme, I find people just stare at me blankly when I use obscure historical analogies.

My apologies, Riven Dell.

I hadn't seen your follow-up posts.

Okie ... so the Principal should have done it, then. The place isn't important, it's the circumstance that matters. Yes, kids with mental abberations can show great strength, but none of them are very fast. A calm, rational adult can find a way to take care of something.

Not necessarily true... some kids with dimentia are just as fast as they are strong.

Handling it immediately is far better than watching the kid cut himself while waiting for the police to show up.

You may be right... but then, you can't necessarily be sure how you would behave in such a situation until you're actually in one (let's hope you never are).




Oh I like them just fine. I have three of them, myself, and I even used to be one! Teenagers, however, are not kids. They are possessed aliens.

*roll eyes* No, actually, they're human beings. They're just as flawed as the rest of us. They're in a strange, in-between stage in life. As a matter of fact, chemically speaking, most adolsecents are sleep-deprived to begin with. The brain of an adolescent doesn't tend to produce any seratonin (a sleep chemical) until 10pm or 10:30. Physicall, most teenagers won't feel tired until that time. Since schools start early, most of these kids spend the first few hours of school in a sleep-deprived haze. They haven't adjusted to their new circadian rhythms yet, and don't always know enough about these changes to compensate successfully.

Even outside that, though, dealing with teens has to be considered on an individual basis. Some of them are warped, sure, but some of them are doing just fine. Considering them "possessed aliens" without examining the individual is pretty excessive.

There would be a lot less of those if we hit them with the shock collars during the teenage years.

Actually, I've known plenty of people who went off the deep end in college instead of in high school... you know, the time when their parents aren't standing over their shoulders, breathing down their necks, and forcing them to do "the right thing" all the time?


As a teenager, I have to disagree with Riven Dell. While I have great respect for the views of educators and others who must deal with my fellow adolescents on a daily basis, I feel that some are too naive, while others are too harsh.

In deference to you, I know what you mean. Honestly, though, I put on the "every kid has the potential" face for my classes. Sure, I may seem a little naiive to some of my students, but they certainly don't get away with too much crap (in the long run). I keep an open dialogue with most of their parents, and I try to keep an eye out. I find that hoping for the best from my students sometimes makes it easier to cope when some of them are being little twerps. If I were to just get frustrated and throw my hands up (tantamount to giving up on a kid), I wouldn't be a very good teacher, would I? Also, I teach English which gives me a unique opportunity to incorporate some basic ethics/morality lessons in my curriculum. My classes are pretty up on the whole "issue discussion" situation after the first week-and-a-half of school. It facilitates some good learning and candid talk about ethical and moral behavior.

Naiive? Maybe some of my students would say so, but I still prefer to try standing up for the teenagers out there that are worth their salt instead of just condemning them all as "arrogant twerps" without looking at the bigger picture. Maybe it's just me.

This is just plain stupid, stupid like using a handgun to open a can of beans.

Brickbats for the trigger-happy punk cops who electrocuted a disturbed child.

Simply having the technology should not be license to use it as a crutch.

This is just plain stupid, stupid like using a handgun to open a can of beans.

Brickbats for the trigger-happy punk cops who electrocuted a disturbed child.

Simply having the technology should not be license to use it as a crutch.
Typical drivel. The cops probably saved this kid from permanent disfigurement and you're complaining they didn't do it nicely enough.

My apologies, Riven Dell.

I hadn't seen your follow-up posts.

*laugh* Whoops... I posted that last one before reading this. Well, I think we're probably on about the same page then.

Edit: Would you like to be in my senior English class next year? Sounds like you'd be a serious asset in class discussions. ;)

Typical drivel. The cops probably saved this kid from permanent disfigurement and you're complaining they didn't do it nicely enough.

Pooped 'em.

Originally Posted by Riven Dell
Would you like to be in my senior English class next year? Sounds like you'd be a serious asset in class discussions.

English class, you say...[/Eyes twinkling with good memories]
I'd be honored, but I'm afraid I'll be heading off to college (hopefully).

Yes, English teachers have always been the best, in my experience. I'm also glad to hear that you are so involved with your students. Those kids are lucky to have you.


Oh, and Keruvalia, thanks for sparing my shock-collar.

English class, you say...[/Eyes twinkling with good memories]
I'd be honored, but I'm afraid I'll be heading off to college (hopefully).

Yes, English teachers have always been the best, in my experience. I'm also glad to hear that you are so involved with your students. Those kids are lucky to have you.


Oh, and Keruvalia, thanks for sparing my shock-collar.

Wow... too bad I missed ya in class ;). Ah well, I've had a few students with your verve and insight. I always hope for at least one at the start of every year. It's good to have an anchor for reality in the room that isn't an "evil adult" yet. Good luck in college, I'm sure you'll thrive in that setting.

Thanks for the compliment. I really do appreciate it. Oh, and I always hear mixed messages from post high-school students about English teachers. Some of them (those more capable in language arts) love the teachers, some of them hate us (those who feel we've got that "my class is required until you DIE" arrogance). I think it's a delicate ballance.

And, for the record, I'd tackle Keruvalia and pin his arms to his sides simply pluck the shock collar out of his hands then send him to the nurse if he tried to collar one of my students (or a student who is obviously intelligent and insightful). ;)

*roll eyes* No, actually, they're human beings. They're just as flawed as the rest of us. They're in a strange, in-between stage in life. As a matter of fact, chemically speaking, most adolsecents are sleep-deprived to begin with. The brain of an adolescent doesn't tend to produce any seratonin (a sleep chemical) until 10pm or 10:30. Physicall, most teenagers won't feel tired until that time. Since schools start early, most of these kids spend the first few hours of school in a sleep-deprived haze. They haven't adjusted to their new circadian rhythms yet, and don't always know enough about these changes to compensate successfully.

So that would explain why I was dead tired at like 8:30 last night, but then at 9 when I was finally done with everything I had to do I didn't really seem tired and couldn't go to sleep till like 10:30? (and then this morning I woke up and was REALLY tired)
Ugh, go figure. Another "wonderful" teen thing.

I know some (most?) of us teens are uncool, but there are a few of us out here who aren't like that. I think I am one of them.

So that would explain why I was dead tired at like 8:30 last night, but then at 9 when I was finally done with everything I had to do I didn't really seem tired and couldn't go to sleep till like 10:30? (and then this morning I woke up and was REALLY tired)
Ugh, go figure. Another "wonderful" teen thing.

I know some (most?) of us teens are uncool, but there are a few of us out here who aren't like that. I think I am one of them.

Exactly. And unfortunately, most people aren't at all aware of the extent of the bodily changes at adolescence. It's extremely difficult (from a teacher's perspective) to deal with the kids in early classes as a result. You practically have to get them standing and moving around to keep them engaged. (Some of my classes go for "discussion walks" around campus with me.) And even then, some of the kids absolutely hate me for making them walk around ;).

Seriously, though, I've got a list of hints and tips to help with that if you're interested. Go ahead and send me a telegram or something. Also, I believe you're one of "the thinkers" (as I like to call them). Oh, and I'd say it's more "some" than "most" teens that are uncool. Mostly y'all are just misunderstood, confused, and under a plethora of societal pressures.

what the hell is wrong with the world where a 6 year old wants to cut himself?


fuck. what happened to childhood?

A 6 year old threatening to hurt himself and others with a piece of glass has serious mental issues.

Originally Posted by Riven Dell
[Some students] (those more capable in language arts) love the teachers, some of them hate us (those who feel we've got that "my class is required until you DIE" arrogance).
I can't say that I've ever met an English teacher who seemed arrogant, but one of my English teachers gave me that label. ;) Mrs. Rice was wonderful.

Yes ... that's why the adult in the room (ie. the TEACHER) should have just pushed the kid down and taken the damn piece of glass. The kid is 6 .... SIX! What kind of wimp-ass teacher was in that room that was incapable of taking something away from a clumsy, unfocused, uncoordinated 6 year old?
...
Oh ... and I'm a teacher as well. Speaking as a teacher, I would have grabbed the kid, pinned his arms to his side with one of my arms around him and simply plucked the glass away then called in the school nurse.

If I got cut in the process, I'd put a nice bandage on it and go on with class.

Yeesh, people.You are a teacher in what country?

Hmmm ... true. I'd probably also be sued for manhandling the child. Oh well ...Never mind previous question...You r probably from the US.

I probably shouldn't find this funny...but I do.

"By using the Taser, we were able to stop the situation, stop him from hurting himself," police spokesman Juan DelCastillo told The Miami Herald."

Yeah - the footage of taser testing that I've seen didn't hurt the (adult) volunteers at all. /sarcasm

Seriously, I am very worried at the automatic use of weapons to control children and the condoning of it is mind-boggling.

If people in these positions (police and teachers among others) learned some basic self defence techniques(control holds, etc) then you would find the use of weapons to be less neccessary and certainly less defensible. And I am NOT suggesting to choke them out.

As for not being able to physically hold a 6 year old - if that is the case, if you truly have no ability to deal with a young child, then you shouldn't be a teacher or a police officer. Obviously there needs to be more training. If this happened in Australia, I would venture to suggest that the cops concerned would be heavily disciplined by their superiors and then the community might take it into their own hands. This is child abuse, pure and simple. We take child protection very seriously here.

I have been attacked on several occasions (by adults larger than me) and have been able to control the situation and their movement without having to resort to a taser. And by the way - I do not have a big, powerful physique. If anything, I am a shortarse.

.... If this happened in Australia.....This reminds me of a unforgetable Bart Simpson stunt in Australia.

all the Frogs and stuff :D

As far as saying that they could/should have used other means, there are few if any other techniques that are as safe as a high-voltage LOW-CURRENT shock. Control holds? Maybe in other circumstances. But when the kid is holding a piece of broken glass, sharp on all sides, and has already shown a willingness if not intent to severely hurt himself, all he has to do is squeeze hard and he can sever all of the finger tendons in his hand. You got a control hold for that? You can try to pry his fingers off of it, but how sure are you of success? You try to grab him, he twists his body around, gets his hand away from yours, and clamps down, totally fucking up his hand for the rest of his life. It just takes a couple of seconds.

Maybe some people (well, only a few of those here, we seem to be a better educated bunch) think that 50,000 volts is inherently dangerous. No, it's wattage that does damage. 50,000 volts at 0.5 mA is 25 watts, less than half the power of a 60 watt bulb. Does it hurt? Yeah. But it's not really that dangerous.

And as our society slides into anarchy and smaller and smaller children become dangerously violent, hopefully we will develop tazars that can be adjusted to go even easier on those with small bodies.

What, was the teacher a midget or something? How the hell does anyone get intimidated by a six-year-old holding ANYTHING? If I was in that situation, I would have taken a run up and booted that kid in the chest, and then laughed about it as I sit in jail. This is perhaps the most extreme argument so far for the reintroduction of punishment in schools. I'm tired of seeing little shit school students running around pulling shit like this and getting away with it. BRING BACK THE CANE before everyone in our society loses the virtues of discipline and common sense.

Also, I hate that episode whenever it comes on. The Simpsons go to another country, and always make it look crap so the Americans can laugh at. I know it's just a laugh, but I wish there was a prominent Australian cartoon that can go to America and point out their flaws. I dunno, maybe they can laugh at how the Americans voted for Bush again. The man is dishing out punches to the face and they are going up for seconds.

But when the kid is holding a piece of broken glass, sharp on all sides, and has already shown a willingness if not intent to severely hurt himself, all he has to do is squeeze hard and he can sever all of the finger tendons in his hand. You got a control hold for that? You can try to pry his fingers off of it, but how sure are you of success? You try to grab him, he twists his body around, gets his hand away from yours, and clamps down, totally fucking up his hand for the rest of his life. It just takes a couple of seconds.



Are you suggesting that the convulsive spasm when the 6 year old is tasered is 100% guaranteed not to have the same effect?

I stand by my statement that with adequate training, any professional who regularly deals with children or disturbed/aggressive people should not have to resort to using such weapons on a six year old child.

Six year olds are an uncontrollable and dangerous element of our populace. They must be kept under constant electronic surveillance, and whenever they enter a situation in which even the remote possibility of misbehavior occurs they must be neutralized with extreme prejudice.