NationStates Jolt Archive

Is it just me, or is the last 3 or 4 chapters (or books) the only ones that are exciting? That and Odysseus' journey into Hades' realm?

So much of the book is spent with Odysseus telling a lie about his life that I skip a few lines here and there and get as much out of the chapter as if I read the whole thing. What is the significance of him lying to the swineherd and Penelope with such long stories? Okay, not so much Penelope, but more toward the swineherd.

You had to put a "spoilers" tag for The Odyssey? :headbang:

Nah, the whole thing is entertaining. Odysseus's story-telling demonstrates 2 things: (1) his cunning, being able to make believable tales on the spur of the moment and manipulate his listeners and (2) the central role of the story-teller or bard in Greek culture. Note also the respect shown by Odysseus to the story-tellers.

Odysseus's deceptions and hiding his identity also show a marked contrast between the Odyssey and the Iliad. In the Iliad you have direct confrontations, with the names of warriors being recorded by the poet and with each hero knowing the others name. In the Odyssey, the hero uses brains above brawn, and shows caution and cunning, and in the end forsakes the ideals of the Iliad. Odysseus spends the tale trying to make his way home, finally leaving behind the endless quest for honour and glory, preferring to live to old age and die in peace (much as Akhilleus says he would have preferred). The Iliadic virtues are tempting to a man like Odyssues, however, as is demonstrated by the song of the Sirens, which is, after all, reminiscent of the Trojan war if you pay attention to it.

I have yet to read the Illiad, thanks to my school's lack of knowledgeable books...the only copy is checked out, but I plan to read it next and pick it up tomorrow at the library at my school.

Nah, the whole thing is entertaining. Odysseus's story-telling demonstrates 2 things: (1) his cunning, being able to make believable tales on the spur of the moment and manipulate his listeners and (2) the central role of the story-teller or bard in Greek culture. Note also the respect shown by Odysseus to the story-tellers.
Makes sense, people seemed to be giving him a free ride whenever he talked of his stories. But then again, isn't the food and wealth meant to be a symbol for power and pride?

For instance, Menelaus was able to give Telemachus a great meal and bed. The Phaecians were able to give Odysseus a great meal and bed, as well as a free ride to Ithica.

But the swine herd had pride, but no power. Thus, was he not able to give Odysseus a hearty, yet small meal of ham?

I have yet to read the Illiad, thanks to my school's lack of knowledgeable books...the only copy is checked out, but I plan to read it next and pick it up tomorrow at the library at my school.
I'd definately pick it up. You could probably find it on the internet if you wanted to, just in case. The epics are best understood when read together. On a side note: I LOVE Diomedes.... but you just wait and find out about him yourself. He is only mentioned briefly in the Odyssey, when Nestor says he had found his way home alright.

You had to put a "spoilers" tag for The Odyssey? :headbang:

Yeah, why exactly did you do that???

Guess it loses something in the shift from an oral tradition...personally, his time in Phaiakia is my favourite part of the work.

Question: Did you read this out of interest or for a class?

Yeah, why exactly did you do that???

Guess it loses something in the shift from an oral tradition...personally, his time in Phaiakia is my favourite part of the work.

Question: Did you read this out of interest or for a class?
out of interest, although I found out 100 pages into the book that my class was going to do something on it.

Oh well, didn't stop me.


And I put it because I know that I didn't want any of the book spoiled for me, why should I do it to others...?

Makes sense, people seemed to be giving him a free ride whenever he talked of his stories. But then again, isn't the food and wealth meant to be a symbol for power and pride?

For instance, Menelaus was able to give Telemachus a great meal and bed. The Phaecians were able to give Odysseus a great meal and bed, as well as a free ride to Ithica.

But the swine herd had pride, but no power. Thus, was he not able to give Odysseus a hearty, yet small meal of ham?
Yes. You got it.
Remember Odysseus tells the Cyclops that strangers are sacred to Zeus. Therefore, when a stranger comes to your home, you MUST give him all possible hospitality. There are very specific rituals to be followed. A proper greeting is needed before even asking the stranger for his name, for example. Those who fear the gods show hospitality. The Cyclops did not, because his people are uncivilized and brutish. This is a crime just as horrible as what he did to Odysseus's men. The Phaenicians were a fine cultured people and showed hospitality. However, if you check back, you'll see that Odysseus's story-telling won him additional prizes as well. They gave him much out of hospitality but even more because he told a good story. The Swineherd did all in his power, showing himself to be a fine host right off the bat. Now, compare that treatment to the suitors' behaviour when Odysseus poses as a beggar. They seal their fate by being cruel to a stranger, on top of trying to screw his wife. They're beasts, like the cyclops.

Makes sense, people seemed to be giving him a free ride whenever he talked of his stories. But then again, isn't the food and wealth meant to be a symbol for power and pride?

For instance, Menelaus was able to give Telemachus a great meal and bed. The Phaecians were able to give Odysseus a great meal and bed, as well as a free ride to Ithica.

But the swine herd had pride, but no power. Thus, was he not able to give Odysseus a hearty, yet small meal of ham?


The food and bed thing is more a reference to the society of the time, the hospitality toward guests and strangers. There's a whole gift exchange -"xenia"- thing that goes on as well.

out of interest, although I found out 100 pages into the book that my class was going to do something on it.

Oh well, didn't stop me.


And I put it because I know that I didn't want any of the book spoiled for me, why should I do it to others...?


I dunno, it's kinda thousands of years old and most people tend to know what the Epic story is about. Particularly if you put The Odyssey in a subject header, most people who read the thread are gonna be people who know something about it, I figure atleast. It's not as though it's the next super budget Hollywood movie that's just been released.

There's a whole gift exchange -"xenia"- thing that goes on as well.
Damn, how did I forget that? Like when Aias fought Hektor in the Iliad.

Damn, how did I forget that? Like when Aias fought Hektor in the Iliad.

I love that you're using the Greek spellings :D

I can't believe what they did to Aias' role in Troy. That was such a crap movie.

I love that you're using the Greek spellings :D

I can't believe what they did to Aias' role in Troy. That was such a crap movie.
I don't consider it the Greek spelling. I consider it the correct spelling.
Yes, Aias in Troy hurts me. And they left out Diomedes entirely. How disappointing. He was a favourite of mine, for obvious reasons (not saying; don't wanna spoil it). And they kill BOTH sons of Atreus: They can't do that!

The problem is, you see it spelled AJAX all the time, so I have to make a concious effort to remember it's Aias.

I don't consider it the Greek spelling. I consider it the correct spelling.
Yes, Aias in Troy hurts me. And they left out Diomedes entirely. How disappointing. He was a favourite of mine, for obvious reasons (not saying; don't wanna spoil it). And they kill BOTH sons of Atreus: They can't do that!

Yes, it is indeed the correct spelling.
Haha, Troy...Troy involved a rather large amount of poetic license really.
I felt the Oresteia being wrenched away from my tight grip...alas, all I could do was laugh. In fact, I laughed all the way through. How about Mr Pitts meaningful stare into the distance as Thetis informs of his opportunity to be immortalised? How fantastic was that moment :rolleyes:

Yes, it is indeed the correct spelling.
Haha, Troy...Troy involved a rather large amount of poetic license really.
I felt the Oresteia being wrenched away from my tight grip...alas, all I could do was laugh. In fact, I laughed all the way through. How about Mr Pitts meaningful stare into the distance as Thetis informs of his opportunity to be immortalised? How fantastic was that moment :rolleyes:
If nothing else I must say this: Odysseus and Paris were well cast. Who could be better than Sean Bean as Odysseus? And Orlando Bloom as Paris? My favourite part of the movie was when he crawled actoss the ground to grab ahold of Hektor's feet. It made me laugh. It made me cry. Then laugh, laugh, laugh!! :D