NationStates Jolt Archive

Who is your favorite and why. (*Note this is not just about killing power)

Heracles, for his feat of cleaning the Stygian stables (amazing some ad hack hasn't put two and two together, and...oh, forget I mentioned it)

I'm an Aeneas fan myself, because he overcame impossible odds and wasn't an arrogant prick like most of them, but Achillies had the most guts because he knew he would die. It is pretty close between these two for me.

Odysseus. Definitely Odysseus. Not only is he a big strong warrior who goes around killing things, he's also smart as hell. "Peer of Zeus in council" I believe is the term used to describe him. Meaning he's as smart as the King of the Gods.

Thor. God of thunder. Slayer of the giants.

Odysseus. Definitely Odysseus. Not only is he a big strong warrior who goes around killing things, he's also smart as hell. "Peer of Zeus in council" I believe is the term used to describe him. Meaning he's as smart as the King of the Gods.
Odysseus is smart and a good fighter but he is also in my veiw kind of a bad leader becasue he dooms his crew by offending the gods. Plus I didn't think the trojan horse was honorable. Achillies would have never done that.

Odysseus and Achilles were both ass-wipes. Odysseus was pretty bad, just read all of the crap he pulled, and that isn't even including the fact that while he was out being a prick he slept with every woman he happened to come across, while this is going on Penelope remains loyal and true. Then when the son of a bitch returns he kills everyone simply because they thought about doing exactly what he did.
Achilles, however, was as bad as you can get. Before he battles Hector, Hector makes a rather generous and noble offer (whoever should win the fight would then return the body of his opponent for proper burial). Most people should know what comes next (Achilles wins, drags Hector's body around, feeds it to dogs, etc.)

So, yeah, ancient greeks were all shit sacks who should have been burned from the face of the earth the moment they crawled out of the slime and started humping sheep.

Odysseus and Achilles were both ass-wipes. Odysseus was pretty bad, just read all of the crap he pulled, and that isn't even including the fact that while he was out being a prick he slept with every woman he happened to come across, while this is going on Penelope remains loyal and true. Then when the son of a bitch returns he kills everyone simply because they thought about doing exactly what he did.
Achilles, however, was as bad as you can get. Before he battles Hector, Hector makes a rather generous and noble offer (whoever should win the fight would then return the body of his opponent for proper burial). Most people should know what comes next (Achilles wins, drags Hector's body around, feeds it to dogs, etc.)

So, yeah, ancient greeks were all shit sacks who should have been burned from the face of the earth the moment they crawled out of the slime and started humping sheep.

Yeah, damn them and their foundations for Western Civilization.

Yeah, damn them and their foundations for Western Civilization.
That is over the top. The Greeks really didn't create anything that wouldn't have shown up later somewwhere else. Unless, of course, you believe that in all the thousands years history of post-Ancient Greece civilation, no one else could have risen to fill their place?

That is over the top. The Greeks really didn't create anything that wouldn't have shown up later somewwhere else. Unless, of course, you believe that in all the thousands years history of post-Ancient Greece civilation, no one else could have risen to fill their place?

I'm over the top? How exactly was what I said over the top?

That is over the top. The Greeks really didn't create anything that wouldn't have shown up later somewwhere else. Unless, of course, you believe that in all the thousands years history of post-Ancient Greece civilation, no one else could have risen to fill their place?

Well, there were the Romans, who really did rise to more than just 'filling their place'...but, ohhh I get what you're saying.

even if another culture could have influenced western civilization in the same way as the ancient Greeks, it's kind of a moot point, as they didn't. The Greeks did.

Loki. God of fire and chaos.

Odysseus and Achilles were both ass-wipes. Odysseus was pretty bad, just read all of the crap he pulled, and that isn't even including the fact that while he was out being a prick he slept with every woman he happened to come across, while this is going on Penelope remains loyal and true. Then when the son of a bitch returns he kills everyone simply because they thought about doing exactly what he did.
Achilles, however, was as bad as you can get. Before he battles Hector, Hector makes a rather generous and noble offer (whoever should win the fight would then return the body of his opponent for proper burial). Most people should know what comes next (Achilles wins, drags Hector's body around, feeds it to dogs, etc.)

So, yeah, ancient greeks were all shit sacks who should have been burned from the face of the earth the moment they crawled out of the slime and started humping sheep.

Achillies was an a dickweed for turning down hectors offer initially, but he showed his virtue later when he allowed Priam to take his body back to Troy, demontrating he recognized his own arrogance and pride. I thought that Achillies dragged hector around the city in part becasue he was kind of an anarchist and hated princes and royalty especialy after Agamemnon took his woman that he kidnapped.

Loki. God of fire and chaos.

Hey I admire Loki a GREAT deal, but...

...he's a God...

...not an adventurer...

(runs away, fearing Loki's wrath)

That's splitting hairs. The lives of gods are one adventure after another.

The Hero Fearghus Mac Róigh form the Irish legend of Naoise and Deirdre. All heros in that story had a "geasa" or and unbreakable deed or action to take. Naoise, for example, had to protect Deirdre from from evil and obey her commands.

Fearghus Mac Róigh geasa? He had to attend and party or feast he was invited to. There's a hero who knows how to work the hero code

Loki and Mars the roman god of war.

Optimus Prime. Yeah, well, he's better than soddin' odysseus.

Well, there were the Romans, who really did rise to more than just 'filling their place'...but, ohhh I get what you're saying.
More or less my point. The Romans were much more than the Greeks ever had wetdreams of being, but I am ranting.
I'll just leave off by saying that I hate the Ancient Greeks and think that they are the most overrated civilization the world has ever known.

Wait, we were supposed to list a favorite heron weren't we?
Loki. He mayn't have been the greatest warrior, but how can't you admire a man (ok, god) who will bring about the end of the world. Not only that, but until then he spends his time causing hell for people and fathering monsters.

I don't really like any of the character involved with the Trojan war myths. They are all self centered idiots (who in their right mind would fight a disaterous 10 year war over a bloody woman, no matter how good looking she is).

I perfer the story of Perseus and his adventures with Medusa. At least he killed her for a good reason (to protect his mother), and managed to save Andromeda's life along the way. Unlike most of the other Greek myth hero's, he managed to stay in the Gods good books as well (especially Athena).

That's splitting hairs. The lives of gods are one adventure after another.

Well life is a party, but that doesn't make me an adventurer. Gods had power, Power with a capital 'P'. Heros may have had the favour of the Gods, but that's not the same as being a God, with Powers. No way.

I still dig Heracles.

Optimus Prime. Yeah, well, he's better than soddin' odysseus.

LMAO

Or brian, from family guy.

And these do all count as mythological, because a myth is simply an entirely made up storey. Only legend is based loosely around fact

I have a special place in my heart for loki because to me he isn't just the God of fire, he is the Flame. But I don't wanna hijack a cool thread.

god. he's got the whole world believing.

I would say the Norse Gods could count as adventurers, seeing as they could be killed.

I would have to go with Beowulf personally, with the various figures from all the tales of King Arthur and the Chinese Romance of the Three Kingdoms getting honorable mentions.

Odin. He gave up his eye for wisdom. He was a good ruler.

Odysseus is smart and a good fighter but he is also in my veiw kind of a bad leader becasue he dooms his crew by offending the gods. Plus I didn't think the trojan horse was honorable. Achillies would have never done that.

IIRC, that wasn't his doing. That was the result of Ajax the Lesser raping Cassandra on the altar of Apollo (?) during the sack of Troy. The gods considered it such a grave offense that they deemed none but Odysseus (for some reason I can't remember) virtuous enough to return home. That being said, yeah, Odysseus was a bit of a womanizer, but then again, so was just about every Greek hero.

As for me, Finn McCool (Irish hero) has the best name. Of all such wandering mythological heros, I'd probably say. . .eh, probably Hector. Of all the people I can think of right now, he was the greatest combination of virtue, intelligence, (he tried to tell Paris not to take Helen, but did he listen? Nooo. . .) and strength, being very nearly Achilles' equal in combat, and that was even factoring in the fact that Achilles was damn near immortal.

I would say the Norse Gods could count as adventurers, seeing as they could be killed.

I would have to go with Beowulf personally, with the various figures from all the tales of King Arthur and the Chinese Romance of the Three Kingdoms getting honorable mentions.

Beowulf! I actually forgot about him, but yeah no one was mightier. Grendel is all going around eating warriors like pop corn chicken and then along comes Beowulf and rips him apart with his bare hands! That is about as badass as it gets.

Jesus, he is totally the best mythological warrior-adventurer, i mean super powers, battling villains, and his secret weakness: crucification!

Odin. He gave up his eye for wisdom. He was a good ruler.

Good ruler? There are few things that guy wouldn't do and few he wouldn't betray to increase his power and knowledge! He was a great ruler!

I wrote a two or three page paper for my English class about why I thought Odysseus was a moron (or at least considerably less intelligent then people paint him to be). :D

Interesting fact: Thursday is named after the thuder god Thor according to my copy of "Mythology" by Edith Hamilton.

Does anybody want to help petition Congress to correct Thurdsday's spelling and call it "Thor's Day"?

Gil-Galad, definately, his spear, Eiglos was kickass, but if your looking for something a bit more Ancient, I'd have to say Beowulf.

....But my first choice is Definately Gil-Galad....

Mordred La Faye. (Le Fay)

Last remaining defender of a dying faith, champion of Avalon, sorcerer-warrior, forced by fate to fight and kill his own father, dying himself in the process (Hamlet, eat your heart out!)

Fionn mac Cumhaill
Read some of the Fenian Cycle.

Well, there were the Romans, who really did rise to more than just 'filling their place'...but, ohhh I get what you're saying.

even if another culture could have influenced western civilization in the same way as the ancient Greeks, it's kind of a moot point, as they didn't. The Greeks did.
Rome's foundations lay in Greece. Just look at their gods.

I would say the Norse Gods could count as adventurers, seeing as they could be killed.

I would have to go with Beowulf personally, with the various figures from all the tales of King Arthur and the Chinese Romance of the Three Kingdoms getting honorable mentions.
I'll throw in Siegfried of Xanten.

Jesus, he is totally the best mythological warrior-adventurer, i mean super powers, battling villains, and his secret weakness: crucification!
But never fear. His super best friends will resurect him after 3 days.

Hmmm...

It's time for some name recognition excersises. (I can't spell... too tired...)

Arthur Dent.

But never fear. His super best friends will resurect him after 3 days.

Last time I checked, according to the story, he did it of his own power (you know, being God and all...)

As far as distinguishing between adventurers (I still can't spell) and gods, you need to remember that many heros had divine blood, like Aeneas (who, in my opinion, is probably the best), and Heracles.

Gabriel from King Arthur's court. He's the one that found the Grail, right? Assuming I got the right knight, I favor him because he's the physical embodiment of The Fool in all the best ways.

Odysseus is smart and a good fighter but he is also in my veiw kind of a bad leader becasue he dooms his crew by offending the gods. Plus I didn't think the trojan horse was honorable. Achillies would have never done that.
LOL. Your knowledge is rusty. he didn't offend the gods. His crew did, when they killed and ate the cattle of Apollo. That is why Zeus destroyed his ship with a lightning bolt, killing all the crew and leaving only Odysseus. And as far as the Trojan horse is concerned, I'd like to see you try a better way to penetrate the gates of a city without explosives or even a decent battering ram, all while under fire from archers. Besides which Achilles wasn't exactly a nice guy. In case you had forgotten, when he killed Hector he dragged his body around the city behind his chariot, and took it back to his camp. He only relented when Hector's father, the King Priam, came to him personally to beg for his son's body so he could give it a proper burial. Not to mention that he sulked like a child after Agamemnon took his slave-girl, which lead to the death of Patroclus. In other words, he got killed by an arrow in the heel, while Odysseus came back home and killed well over 50 men with only the aid of his son, who had no weapons training. So basically, he took on an army by himself. You gotta give the guy credit. Brains over brawn, every time.

Last time I checked, according to the story, he did it of his own power (you know, being God and all...)
Thats just propaganda spread by the zealots in Washington. You think he would have as many followers as he does if they knew he had help?

I guess I should point out the one great failing of Odysseus, that being his pride. Indeed, it cost him dearly after he boasted to the Cyclops he had just blinded and revealed his true name. Poseidon whipped the hell out of him for 10 years for that mistake.

I guess I should point out the one great failing of Odysseus, that being his pride. Indeed, it cost him dearly after he boasted to the Cyclops he had just blinded and revealed his true name. Poseidon whipped the hell out of him for 10 years for that mistake.
I think it's quit an achievement to get lost for 10 years between Troy and Greece since both aren't that far apart.

Aias the Greater (Or Ajax, if you prefer). What a badass: every other sissy hero in the Greek army was hurt or sulking, and he was the one front and centre beating off the Trojans. He went toe to toe with Hektor, and we all know he was just about to crush that puny bitch before the gods had to stick their noses into it. Unfortunately driven mad and killed himself anter the indignity of that sweet-talking Odysseus winning the Greeks over and claiming Akhilleus's armour.

Diomedes was also cool: what can you say about a fellow who sent the goddess of love and the God of war running home to daddy after confronting them on the battlefield. Plus, he managed to survive the war and get home without incident. He's favoured by the gods, obviously.

Of course, the semi-mythical Miyamoto Musashi comes to mind as well. A wandering samurai, he was credited with never losing a duel out of all those elaborate stories where he faced different samurai who thought they was the shit, and in some of the more interesting tales he stopped using a real sword entirely and beat men down with a wooden blade. However, other stories about certain founders of different schools claim that whatever founder beat Musashi... but that's why he's semi-mythical, because what stories are true is up in the air. Finally retired and wrote the Book of Five Rings, describing strategy involved in swordsmanship. (For the Robert Jordan readers out there, the fifth book was "The Void".... yeah: Clearing the mind, whole deal. There is no fire in this description, but the inspiration seems quite likely.)

Aias the Greater (Or Ajax, if you prefer). What a badass: every other sissy hero in the Greek army was hurt or sulking, and he was the one front and centre beating off the Trojans. He went toe to toe with Hektor, and we all know he was just about to crush that puny bitch before the gods had to stick their noses into it. Unfortunately driven mad and killed himself anter the indignity of that sweet-talking Odysseus winning the Greeks over and claiming Akhilleus's armour.

Diomedes was also cool: what can you say about a fellow who sent the goddess of love and the God of war running home to daddy after confronting them on the battlefield. Plus, he managed to survive the war and get home without incident. He's favoured by the gods, obviously.

Of course, the semi-mythical Miyamoto Musashi comes to mind as well. A wandering samurai, he was credited with never losing a duel out of all those elaborate stories where he faced different samurai who thought they was the shit, and in some of the more interesting tales he stopped using a real sword entirely and beat men down with a wooden blade. However, other stories about certain founders of different schools claim that whatever founder beat Musashi... but that's why he's semi-mythical, because what stories are true is up in the air. Finally retired and wrote the Book of Five Rings, describing strategy involved in swordsmanship. (For the Robert Jordan readers out there, the fifth book was "The Void".... yeah: Clearing the mind, whole deal. There is no fire in this description, but the inspiration seems quite likely.)
What does Robert Jordan have to do with this?

In other words, he got killed by an arrow in the heel, while Odysseus came back home and killed well over 50 men with only the aid of his son, who had no weapons training. So basically, he took on an army by himself. You gotta give the guy credit. Brains over brawn, every time.
It was 110 men, actually. It was with the help of his son AND two loyal servants. (And a little indirect help from Athena)

Thats just propaganda spread by the zealots in Washington. You think he would have as many followers as he does if they knew he had help?

You do realize that the story is much older (and more international) than the United States, right?

The "zealots in Washington" didn't write the Bible.

What does Robert Jordan have to do with this?
Nothing at all, but the Book of Five Rings seems to have served at least in part as the inspiration for that nonsense in the Wheel of Time about the fire and the void. That's why I put it at the end like I did: It's just a sidenote. Trivial information.

The "zealots in Washington" didn't write the Bible. Like it or not, it is the only existing record we have of the resurrection.
And if I remember correctly it was written long after he died by men who never even met him. Cause the whole god thing they put into it sounded alot better.

And if I remember correctly it was written long after he died by men who never even met him. Cause the whole god thing they put into it sounded alot better.

You do realize that the names of the gospels are the names of the people who wrote them, right?

Matthew (one of the 12) Mark (another one) Luke (not one, but alive during the period) John (one of the 12)

It is true that the Bible was compiled a few hundred years after the resurrection, but it was all written before 100 A.D.

Hmmm...

It's time for some name recognition excersises. (I can't spell... too tired...)

Arthur Dent.

Yes! Arthur Dent is the most awesome hero of all time!

Also yes, most of western civilization, like it or not, is based indirectly on the ancient Greeks. The Romans based pretty much all their stuff on the Greeks, and as we know, Rome had a huge influence on what we think of as western civilization.


Anyway, I'd have to say one of these:

1. Oedipus- yes, quite morbid, but the guy tried to do the right thing and ended up getting screwed anyway, and unlike many Greek heroes, he wasn't an arrogant SOB.

2. Odin- Ruler of the Norse gods, but also the god of war and hospitality (would go around disguised as an old beggar to see if people were being generous enough).

3. Tyr- Bravest of the gods, got his hand bitten off by the giant wolf, Fenris, so that the other gods could tie the oversized doggy up so that he wouldn't go rampaging through the land.

Norse gods should count as heroes/adventurers because, unlike most other gods, they are mortal (they stay alive by eating apples of youth) and can be killed (in fact, most of them end up getting killed in Ragnarok).

Also yes, most of western civilization, like it or not, is based indirectly on the ancient Greeks. The Romans based pretty much all their stuff on the Greeks, and as we know, Rome had a huge influence on what we think of as western civilization.

I think it's quit an achievement to get lost for 10 years between Troy and Greece since both aren't that far apart.
As I recall, he spent most of that time on Calypso's Island. He had remained on Circe's for a year, and for several years on Calypso's, plus the gods threw him off course a couple times. Poor bastard should have walked.

You do realize that the names of the gospels are the names of the people who wrote them, right?

Matthew (one of the 12) Mark (another one) Luke (not one, but alive during the period) John (one of the 12)

It is true that the Bible was compiled a few hundred years after the resurrection, but it was all written before 100 A.D.
There was a nice documentary about the whole thing on discovery. Maybe they'll show it again some day. Anyway, Jesus and his super best friends are from a South Park episode you git.

Mine is Frylock Braceface.

Even though the braces have been de-emphasized.

Gabriel from King Arthur's court. He's the one that found the Grail, right? Assuming I got the right knight, I favor him because he's the physical embodiment of The Fool in all the best ways.


Actually, it was Galahad who found the grail.

There was a nice documentary about the whole thing on discovery. Maybe they'll show it again some day. Anyway, Jesus and his super best friends are from a South Park episode you git.

I figured it was probably an allusion... I should have let it slide.

But calling me a git? That's just low (I think)

Gabriel from King Arthur's court. He's the one that found the Grail, right? Assuming I got the right knight, I favor him because he's the physical embodiment of The Fool in all the best ways.

You're thinking of the right knight, but you've got the wrong name, try Parzifal.

You're thinking of the right knight, but you've got the wrong name, try Parzifal.

OK, I'll take your word for it. My memory's fuzzy and the fact that I chose him has more to do with a tarot deck than the actual King Arthur lengends.

You do realize that the names of the gospels are the names of the people who wrote them, right?

Matthew (one of the 12) Mark (another one) Luke (not one, but alive during the period) John (one of the 12)

It is true that the Bible was compiled a few hundred years after the resurrection, but it was all written before 100 A.D.
Considering that all reliable sources state that the earliest that any of the books could possibly have been written was about 40 C.E. (And they were likely written much later than that), or 13 years after the death of Yeshua ben Pantera, I'd say that you are dead wrong.

Hey Cthulhu, nice name.

OK, I'll take your word for it. My memory's fuzzy and the fact that I chose him has more to do with a tarot deck than the actual King Arthur lengends.

Well, IIRC, Parzifal found it first, but didn't return to Camelot with it, that was left up to Galahad and Bors...

Well, IIRC, Parzifal found it first, but didn't return to Camelot with it, that was left up to Galahad and Bors...

Yeah, that's it.

1. Oedipus- yes, quite morbid, but the guy tried to do the right thing and ended up getting screwed anyway, and unlike many Greek heroes, he wasn't an arrogant SOB..
Oedipus was pretty flawed, and I'd hardly say he was modest. I find him pretty arrogant. He was paranoid, quick to anger, and was convinced Kreon had murdered Laios, despite a complete lack of evidence. He refused to believe the seer Teiresias's warnings, and bragged foolishly about how clever he was.
"No ordinary man could have solved [the sphinx's] riddle,
it took prophecy, prophecy and skill you clearly never had.
Even the paths of birds, even the gods' voices were useless.
But I showed up, I, Oedipus,
stupid untutored Oedipus,
I silenced her, I destroyed her, I used my wits, not omens,
to sift the meaning of her song." (528-534)
Translation: I'm better than you old man, because I used my wits when the god's omens failed. I'm better than pitiful prophets of the gods.

Not arrogant? Despite refusing to hear the truth and making snap judgements about his dear friend and brother in law, and despite assuming he knew far better than a FUCKING SEER! Now, if Oedipus was so clever, why did it take him so damn long to figure out he was sleeping with his mother? It was pretty obvious about halfway through the play, but the wise king remained oblivious.

LOL. Your knowledge is rusty. he didn't offend the gods. His crew did, when they killed and ate the cattle of Apollo. That is why Zeus destroyed his ship with a lightning bolt, killing all the crew and leaving only Odysseus. And as far as the Trojan horse is concerned, I'd like to see you try a better way to penetrate the gates of a city without explosives or even a decent battering ram, all while under fire from archers. Besides which Achilles wasn't exactly a nice guy. In case you had forgotten, when he killed Hector he dragged his body around the city behind his chariot, and took it back to his camp. He only relented when Hector's father, the King Priam, came to him personally to beg for his son's body so he could give it a proper burial. Not to mention that he sulked like a child after Agamemnon took his slave-girl, which lead to the death of Patroclus. In other words, he got killed by an arrow in the heel, while Odysseus came back home and killed well over 50 men with only the aid of his son, who had no weapons training. So basically, he took on an army by himself. You gotta give the guy credit. Brains over brawn, every time.

Yeah my mythology is apparently rusty I guess, the Odyessy never really appealed to me, it was a little too much dungeons and dragons and not enough javelin showdowns like in the Iliad or the Aeneid. I explained this earlier a little bit, but I thought when Achillies dragged hector it was more because of his nhilistic anarchist world outlook that all leaders and princes were kind of full of shit He didn't give a shit about patriotism, piety or loyalty the only thing he cared about going out in a blaze of glory so he would be remebered forever, kind of like a mixture of james dean and neitzche or something. What better way to get remembered than to kill the Trojan's top fighter and drag his sorry ass around the city?

I have a hard time accepting though that he would sneak into troy and slit the Trojans throats in their sleep though, he didn't seem to give a damn about the fate of Greece or Troy all he cared about was glorious hand to hand combat. He wanted to be remembered as the bravest of the brave and the Trojan horse trick was pretty cowardly. It wasn't like the Trojans were exactly hiding behind their walls like in the middle ages siege type situations, they just seemed to rest and drink wine there.

Cúchulain all the way! The Hound of Cullan is definitely my favorite. Though, to be fair, I prefer Celtic Mythology in general to other mythologies...

Hmmm...

It's time for some name recognition excersises. (I can't spell... too tired...)

Arthur Dent.
Naah, I'd have gone for Ford Prefect.

You do realize that the story is much older (and more international) than the United States, right?

The "zealots in Washington" didn't write the Bible.
No, a roman sun-worshipping emperor and his cronies wrote it in 4th C to appease the burgeoning christian population and its constant fighting with the original sun-worshippers

Cuchulainn. An Irish guy who ends up doing the greatest women warrior in Ireland, her daughter, and her sister. How cool is he? ;)

Cuchulainn. An Irish guy who ends up doing the greatest women warrior in Ireland, her daughter, and her sister. How cool is he? ;)
He's cool for other reasons too...though he did have a thing with trysts...

Yeah my mythology is apparently rusty I guess, the Odyessy never really appealed to me, it was a little too much dungeons and dragons and not enough javelin showdowns like in the Iliad or the Aeneid. I explained this earlier a little bit, but I thought when Achillies dragged hector it was more because of his nhilistic anarchist world outlook that all leaders and princes were kind of full of shit He didn't give a shit about patriotism, piety or loyalty the only thing he cared about going out in a blaze of glory so he would be remebered forever, kind of like a mixture of james dean and neitzche or something. What better way to get remembered than to kill the Trojan's top fighter and drag his sorry ass around the city?

I have a hard time accepting though that he would sneak into troy and slit the Trojans throats in their sleep though, he didn't seem to give a damn about the fate of Greece or Troy all he cared about was glorious hand to hand combat. He wanted to be remembered as the bravest of the brave and the Trojan horse trick was pretty cowardly. It wasn't like the Trojans were exactly hiding behind their walls like in the middle ages siege type situations, they just seemed to rest and drink wine there.


Except that they did hide behind their walls whenever the battles went badly for them. War is dirty. The Greeks won in the Iliad because they were smarter. I find Odysseus, while still pretty stuck up, to be way more to my liking than Achilles, because Achilles seems to me to be incredibly selfish, all he cared about was his own personal glory. Something was needed to break the stalemate, and a clever trick provided just that. The Trojans shouldn't have been so stupid by letting their guard down. I admire brain far more than brawn.

beowulf, perhaps

Oedipus was pretty flawed, and I'd hardly say he was modest. I find him pretty arrogant. He was paranoid, quick to anger, and was convinced Kreon had murdered Laios, despite a complete lack of evidence. He refused to believe the seer Teiresias's warnings, and bragged foolishly about how clever he was.
"No ordinary man could have solved [the sphinx's] riddle,
it took prophecy, prophecy and skill you clearly never had.
Even the paths of birds, even the gods' voices were useless.
But I showed up, I, Oedipus,
stupid untutored Oedipus,
I silenced her, I destroyed her, I used my wits, not omens,
to sift the meaning of her song." (528-534)
Translation: I'm better than you old man, because I used my wits when the god's omens failed. I'm better than pitiful prophets of the gods.

Not arrogant? Despite refusing to hear the truth and making snap judgements about his dear friend and brother in law, and despite assuming he knew far better than a FUCKING SEER! Now, if Oedipus was so clever, why did it take him so damn long to figure out he was sleeping with his mother? It was pretty obvious about halfway through the play, but the wise king remained oblivious.

Compared to the heroes in the Iliad, he was incredibly modest. And maybe he did have a right to brag, nobody inside the city solved the riddle. You need to read the play again, because the main accusation he levels at Creon is that Creon is plotting against him and has somehow paid Tiresious off to give false messages. Humans tend not to believe what they don't want to, and this has always been true. Every character must have faults, otherwise they're a boring character. Of course he's paranoid, what he charges Creon with isn't really that far out. And why would he listen to a seer that he thinks is being paid off? He's genuinely concerned about Thebes, and wants to find out who the murderer is, and does not stop questioning when it looks likely that it is him. And finally, when he does find out out that the prophecy is true, instead of trying to hold onto his power, he steps down and punishes himself quite severely.

He also thinks that by running away from Corinth that he's outsmarted his fate so of course he's not going to give that much credit to seers. Also, if he has declared his current task to be finding the murderer and thus curing Thebes of the terrible plague that has fallen on the city, why wouldn't he be mad when Tiresious tells him to cease the inquiry?

My personal favorite is Gilgamesh. Jesus comes more of a dead last in my rankings due to questions of how much of his stuff is not just copied from elsewhere and the fact it isn't hard to get a virgin pregnant, even back then.

Well, the Arthurian, Norse, and Greek hereos have been covered. How about Asia. I suggest Benkei (http://www.artelino.com/articles/benkei.asp) and Tomoe Gozen (http://tomoegozen.free.fr/tomoe-gozen-onna-musha.htm) on the legendary side, and Sun Wokong (aka the Monkey King) on the Mythical side. (in addition the the hros of ROTK and Musashi.

I am especially keen on Benkei and Tomoe Gozen as i happened to have studied naginata, the weapon of choice for both.

Odysseus is one of my faves, mixing a significant amount of brain with brawn, and the Odyssey has been my one of my favourite myths since I read it back in primary school. Hector was pretty cool too, a true example of the virtuous hero. However, I would have to put Gilgamesh first, for pure selflessness and determination.

Mikorlias of Imardeava

That is over the top. The Greeks really didn't create anything that wouldn't have shown up later somewwhere else. Unless, of course, you believe that in all the thousands years history of post-Ancient Greece civilation, no one else could have risen to fill their place?

Odds are that without the Ancient Hellenes, we'd probably be alot more like the Etrucians. (Anyone realize the connection I'm making?)

Can I put in for Conan the Barbarian? Does he count?
Cause the old (original) books are pretty cool. He always has wild adventures, kicks butt and rides off with some beautiful scantily-clad woman. What more can you ask for in a mythological-warrior-adventurer?

Can I put in for Conan the Barbarian? Does he count?
Cause the old (original) books are pretty cool. He always has wild adventures, kicks butt and rides off with some beautiful scantily-clad woman. What more can you ask for in a mythological-warrior-adventurer?

Absolutely! Not only that, he's already gone through various literary incarnations (novels, short stories, comics, film) by several authors. Conan's well on his way to mythical status.

Anybody mentioned Samson yet?

He slayed a thousand enemies on a hill with a Donkey Jaw-bone!

Plus, the bible had some cool stories, like "David's Men" (Somewhere in 2nd Samuel, towards the end), about his generals who have single-handedly killed hundreds (not sure if it's in a single battle).

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Can chinese myth's be considered? If not I like Kuan Kong. The red face guy.