NationStates Jolt Archive

Well I made this thread just out of curiousity, seeing as their has been so much talk of these two locking horns. So I ask you to discuss this:

1. Whether N.Korea's Military is underestimated. As to my knowledge the last time their military was checked was a while ago? (Don't know the exact time, correct me if i'm wrong.

2. Wil N.Korea become more of an conventional or unconventional war much like vietnam and the current affairs within Iraq.

3. Who will win if China aid them? As it appears they have a defense pact of some sort, and I wonder how China would feel if a new american-friendly goverment took over? And maybe they keep the treaty with N.K because of that added protection.

4. Is the food underestimated? As their have been several rumours that they have been preparing for a war like this, and therefore have stored several crates of food and supplies within secure underground facilities.

5. The Missile and W.M.D. Capibilities of N.K.

6. The ability of the so-called "Hackers army " they have trained.

7. The N.K special forces and how much of an asset our they.

" I assume you have heard the story

Well go ahead and discuss and I found these links helpful.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3099.htm

http://www.g2mil.com/korea.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/FI10Dg01.html

Well I made this thread just out of curiousity, seeing as their has been so much talk of these two locking horns. So I ask you to discuss this:

1. Whether N.Korea's Military is underestimated. As to my knowledge the last time their military was checked was a while ago? (Don't know the exact time, correct me if i'm wrong.

Some of their weapons are from WWII. Their army is poorly trained. I doubt they are any match for the US military.
2. Wil N.Korea become more of an conventional or unconventional war much like vietnam and the current affairs within Iraq.
I expect so. Kiim Jong-Il is worshipped like a god there, so there'll no doubt be resistence. But I think that if the South Koreans help with occupation, the resistence should fade away after a year or so.
3. Who will win if China aid them? As it appears they have a defense pact of some sort, and I wonder how China would feel if a new american-friendly goverment took over? And maybe they keep the treaty with N.K because of that added protection.
If China gets involved, no one will be alive to win. But I don't think they will. For one, they have too much to loose. For another, they are pretty irritated with North Korea themselves. They won't help North Korea at all.
4. Is the food underestimated? As their have been several rumours that they have been preparing for a war like this, and therefore have stored several crates of food and supplies within secure underground facilities.

I doubt that will play a major role. Any war with the North Koreans should last less than a month.
5. The Missile and W.M.D. Capibilities of N.K.
Insignificant. With enough airpower, they can all be neutralized in about thirty minutes.
6. The ability of the so-called "Hackers army " they have trained.

They are a threat, but something similar exists in the Pentagon. I expect that war to be every bit as fierce as the physical one, though it won't be covered by the media or history books.
7. The N.K special forces and how much of an asset our they.

They are probably a great asset, but hopefully, they can do little more than terrorist actions.

They our indeed good points you have put across. But considering apparently the majority of their vast aged artillary is positioned for a full strike assault on seoul, the capital of S.korea I believe. And thus although the artillary alone is not the best shall we say, the huge quantity of them would most likely be enough to cripple seoul within 1hour-7 days.

Also the missile sites and other facilities could be indeed targeted and destroyed by U.S.A airforce. However if you read the first link it appears they have been preparing the army for a war against U.S.A and co for a numbers of years. And despite many biased-western views their air-defence seems quite capable, and their army training has apparently increased over the last few years, but this can not be estimated due to the isolation of the country.

As for the China point you made, if America did invade N.korea, Chinas buffer will vanish and install fears perhaps of a U.S led invasion.

So concluding, I suppose we shall never really know the isolated nations stats, and thus it would be unwise to trust western opinion.

I would not underestimate the North Korean weaponry. They have been in the business of manufacturing arms (and particularly selling them) for the past 50 years, I would hardly call them outdated. They won't be a push over like Iraq was.
North Korea has been forced to improve its weaponry driven by a fear of South Korea and America, I doubt their anti-air defences would be paper tiger either...

blah i bet the north korean army is trained a thousand times better than the american one..

blah i bet the north korean army is trained a thousand times better than the american one..

umm ok...why?

umm ok...why?
Their diet does not include happy meals.

I don't know enough of this subject to put an informed opinion, but in my opinion, though hard, (and assuming no WMD strikes), the US would start to lose, but in the end, would win. Basically, should NK attack, they would most likely overrun most UN/SK defences. But after that, having the US war machine been set in motion, their ass would be kicked hard. I doubt China would support NK.

Hell, considering the interests of China, one could assume that they would outright invade NK in their own right, should NK attack anyone, and just annexate the place :P (okay, maybe not)

The question is whether or not we could keep the South Koreans from being slaughtered. We could easily take the North Koreans, but we probably could not save the South Koreans. We actually could have won in Vietnam but we pulled out because of political expediency. Ah well, life's a bitch.

North Korea can't even afford to train their military, they can't afford fuel or weapons, and China doesn't have good relations with NK, also South Korea's military could crush NK by itself because they have all the latest technology the US has.

Well you seem to underestimate the various artillary emplacements positioned to attack Seoul. So don't be misguided by western-media, as it is often biased. And from several sites I have heard that the last few years the training has increased considerably, as well as the N.k air-defense and missile tech's.

But I would have thought N.k forces our based on a more defensive war,especially against the U.S.A, rather then an all out attack on S.korea. But even so if N.Korea were to attack the south, their strategy based on their forces seem to be that of a blitzrieg style assault, which in turn would hopefully capture the entire country within a couple of months or so.

Well I made this thread just out of curiousity, seeing as their has been so much talk of these two locking horns. So I ask you to discuss this:

1. Whether N.Korea's Military is underestimated. As to my knowledge the last time their military was checked was a while ago? (Don't know the exact time, correct me if i'm wrong.

2. Wil N.Korea become more of an conventional or unconventional war much like vietnam and the current affairs within Iraq.

3. Who will win if China aid them? As it appears they have a defense pact of some sort, and I wonder how China would feel if a new american-friendly goverment took over? And maybe they keep the treaty with N.K because of that added protection.

4. Is the food underestimated? As their have been several rumours that they have been preparing for a war like this, and therefore have stored several crates of food and supplies within secure underground facilities.

5. The Missile and W.M.D. Capibilities of N.K.

6. The ability of the so-called "Hackers army " they have trained.

7. The N.K special forces and how much of an asset our they.

" I assume you have heard the story

Well go ahead and discuss and I found these links helpful.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3099.htm

http://www.g2mil.com/korea.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/FI10Dg01.html
1) Weak economy belies weak military. Furthermore, their conventional forces are separated from South Korea by the massive DMZ filled with mines and defended by thousands of soldiers.

2) Conventional. They are a civil government, with cities and a capital as opposed to a guerilla force. The war would be conventional.

3) China is now anti-NK, and has been for nearly a 2 decades. Their defense pact was only a player in the Korean war, nothing else.

4) No, they haven't. Even if they did, you can't feed millions of people with stocked foods for long, it just doesn't work.

5) Missile capacity can barely reach Japan, WMD capacity is at most 20.

6) Doesn't exist, or rather, can't factor into military engagement, as military systems are stand-alone systems.

7) Again, weak economy belies weak military. They have special forces, albeit a very small and only moderately armed one. Even Rangers outgun NK special forces.


So let me end with this. Don't look to the internet for your sources, as its mostly idle speculation and otherwise BS. Use real sources, use government sources, etc, but not that junk you linked.

I would not underestimate the North Korean weaponry. They have been in the business of manufacturing arms (and particularly selling them) for the past 50 years, I would hardly call them outdated. They won't be a push over like Iraq was.
North Korea has been forced to improve its weaponry driven by a fear of South Korea and America, I doubt their anti-air defences would be paper tiger either...

No, it's a conventional army which we can attack with our full conventional means. The army would be slaughtered. The problem is that would take a long time to kill all the people in the army and that combined with the fact that there is so much artillery aimed at Seoul that even with Tac nukes it would be chancy.

1) Weak economy belies weak military. Furthermore, their conventional forces are separated from South Korea by the massive DMZ filled with mines and defended by thousands of soldiers.

2) Conventional. They are a civil government, with cities and a capital as opposed to a guerilla force. The war would be conventional.

3) China is now anti-NK, and has been for nearly a 2 decades. Their defense pact was only a player in the Korean war, nothing else.

4) No, they haven't. Even if they did, you can't feed millions of people with stocked foods for long, it just doesn't work.

5) Missile capacity can barely reach Japan, WMD capacity is at most 20.

6) Doesn't exist, or rather, can't factor into military engagement, as military systems are stand-alone systems.

7) Again, weak economy belies weak military. They have special forces, albeit a very small and only moderately armed one. Even Rangers outgun NK special forces.


So let me end with this. Don't look to the internet for your sources, as its mostly idle speculation and otherwise BS. Use real sources, use government sources, etc, but not that junk you linked.

Me thinks someones been listening to much to Western properganda. And let me ask you how you know all this. As for government sources, you really think American or N.korean official sources for that matter would give away secrets of their military. And their special forces have been tipped by many agencies as excellent, and even western-biased opinions have complimented them.

Here is another link from someone who is presumed un-biased

http://gopkorea.blogs.com/flyingyangban/2004/09/be_on_the_look_.html

So believe it or not, the special forces our better then you think.

Their diet does not include happy meals.

neither does a us soldier's...

I think America will destroy the communists hands down. However whether the casulties will be high or low will depend on how the American armed forces decide to wage the war. If they try to do the same goody two shoe "we only shoot military structures and soldiers" technique like they did in Iraq the casulties will no doubt be high. But if they decide to wage true total war against the commies in North Korea then in theory the war should be over in two monthes....of course the media will never let the army do the latter so as a result there will be high casulties in this conflict as well.

Well obviously you have to tread carefully when taking on the N.koreans, as if under threat they could cause havoc upon S.k cities, mainly Seoul. But I suppose his army would not just sit up and run away, as it appears they seem rather devoted to their leader and will fight to the last man. But yes as far as tech goes, the Americans our superior. Nevertheless, they would need a rather large force to defeat the koreans and thus a war may not be so imminent due to the fear of overstreching their forces.

Now that I said that they will do a draft :eek:

I think America will destroy the communists hands down. However whether the casulties will be high or low will depend on how the American armed forces decide to wage the war. If they try to do the same goody two shoe "we only shoot military structures and soldiers" technique like they did in Iraq the casulties will no doubt be high. But if they decide to wage true total war against the commies in North Korea then in theory the war should be over in two monthes....of course the media will never let the army do the latter so as a result there will be high casulties in this conflict as well.

You say that but N.korea is no doubt a much stronger opposition then Iraq, and they most likely actually posses W.M.D and other various weapons likely to reek havoc if they get cornered.

Each day that passes N. Korea's military gets weaker due to aging equip, lack of proper maint and lack of funding. At the same time the S Korean military gets better; more training, better equipment. Don't be so quick to believe that the N Koreans would support their dictator. Currently the railroad and highway system between the two is within 1/2 kilometer of connection and will be done soon. Plans are already in place for a factory in N Korea (funded and occupied by S Korean companies) just across the DMZ to take advantage of cheap workers.

There is only one way N Korea can possibly win a war there. Make a run south (all the way to the southern coast) occupying the entire country, then petition the UN to declare the country "properly" reunited and must do it before the US can send reinforcements. If they miss 1 square meter and the US lands troops it is all over as they don't have the food, ammunition or technology to win a protracted war.

China would definitely defend North Korea (DPRK). The Chinese have a frequently used saying that China and North Korea are as close as "lips and teeth". . Despite the hype free market hype China still has a centrally planned socialist economy and spends considerable resources propping up DPRK especialy with oil after the Soviet Union went the way of the dodo. China isn't wild about them getting nukes though, becasue they don't want to have to save Kim's ass if the US goes in. In an Asian land battle the Americans would be in trouble.

China talks alot about supporting N Korea, but I wouldn't be surprized if their troops were "just a little too late" to help the North Koreans.

The Empire of Presidency has $20 on America.

As I stated before Vulpis the most likely way of winning a war for N.K would be a blizrieg effect. The communist government have noticed this and that is way the special forces operate in sleeper cells across various parts of S.K, as well as various artillary positioned to attack the capital. But yes if they did mount an offensive on S.korea, it would be very difficult to win if they get bogged down and have to face the U.S head on, and therefore most likely lose. But the thread is more along the lines of asking what would happen if America attack N.Korea? And although western sources state N.korea is becoming weaker, in eastern sources and other various unbiased sources it states that N.korea's personal training has increased immensly, and although they have inherited soviet-stuff, I imagine they have no doubt upgraded it some how and most likely our better then first thought. Their missile status is also rapidly increasing, with several sources stating that their balistic missiles can now reach as far as Japan. And considering the communist goverment itself states about the armys targets of keeping america at bay, they would surely no doubt be no pushovers.

neither does a us soldier's...
Your right. Big boy's need a kingsize Big Mac menu.

Your right. Big boy's need a kingsize Big Mac menu.
No.

Although civilians eat McDonalds, the military has a higher standard. Like actual food.

No.

Although civilians eat McDonalds, the military has a higher standard. Like actual food.
Like Kentucky fried chicken and New York Pizza?

I assume you guys are kidding...But just in case:

<< NK are not better Trained than GIs.

<<GI are not fed with happy meals. :D

<<All the "China will do nothing" talk is wishfulThinking

They our indeed good points you have put across. But considering apparently the majority of their vast aged artillary is positioned for a full strike assault on seoul, the capital of S.korea I believe. And thus although the artillary alone is not the best shall we say, the huge quantity of them would most likely be enough to cripple seoul within 1hour-7 days.
We would obviously need more planes in the region. However, we can afford it. Our Air Force is not as stretched out as our Army.
As for the artillery, there is also a good chance that these sites may be captured before doing too much damage. The army training may have improved a bit, but the weaponry certainly hasn't, and they aren't well fed. They couldn't last long.
Also, I heard something about how the Pentagon is developing a new weapon. It is a laser mounted on a modified 747. There's a good chance it won't work, but the critical tests are this winter. If it passes, it'll have the biggest impact on warfare since the atomic bomb. A few may be built as early as 2006. Should that happen, we may have the capability to destroy artillery shells and missiles in midair.
Also the missile sites and other facilities could be indeed targeted and destroyed by U.S.A airforce. However if you read the first link it appears they have been preparing the army for a war against U.S.A and co for a numbers of years. And despite many biased-western views their air-defence seems quite capable, and their army training has apparently increased over the last few years, but this can not be estimated due to the isolation of the country.

I'm sure it isn't as advances as the Iraqi's air defense system in 1991.
As for the China point you made, if America did invade N.korea, Chinas buffer will vanish and install fears perhaps of a U.S led invasion.

But I don't see why either side would ever fight the other. China knows that the US depends on their economy, and that will be even more true as time goes on. But if they were really concerned, I'm sure we could work something out. Maybe we can make the area around the Yalu river a DMZ, only except civillians can cross, unlike the peninsula's current one. And since crossing a fortified river is supposed to be hard, I'm sure we could let the Chinese do that. It should be sufficient.
So concluding, I suppose we shall never really know the isolated nations stats, and thus it would be unwise to trust western opinion.[/QUOTE]

Also, I heard something about how the Pentagon is developing a new weapon. It is a laser mounted on a modified 747. There's a good chance it won't work, but the critical tests are this winter. If it passes, it'll have the biggest impact on warfare since the atomic bomb. A few may be built as early as 2006. Should that happen, we may have the capability to destroy artillery shells and missiles in midair.

Arrow 2 Ballistic Missle Defense System (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/arrow2/) Israel has already developed a system designed to counter Iraqi scud missiles. It could work the same for South Korea against North Korean missiles wich are the only way to get nukes to the South.

Arrow 2 Ballistic Missle Defense System (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/arrow2/) Israel has already developed a system designed to counter Iraqi scud missiles. It could work the same for South Korea against North Korean missiles wich are the only way to get nukes to the South.
Maybe that may work. But if this plane is successful, it means that both missiles and artillery shells can be destroyed at a very fast rate.

The US should invade N-Korea next week.

Sorry, i missed the "what if US invaded N Korea" part. Then it is a no brainer. US would lose. We would rely on airpower to bomb the place back to the stone age (which is abut 10 days earlier than they are now). UN would denounce the invasion, China might get involved if the UN denounces the attack. Once we actually took a few casualties the public would cry "bring them home" and we would have another Vietnam. But why would we attack them? There is no gain to be had. As for the "advanced soviet weapons" you are kidding right?

North Korea's technology may be obsolete, but it still can pack a punch and they have almost unlimited reserves of it.

According to an old, outdated book I have here-

Navy: 41,500 men. 3 Frigates, 25 submarines, 45 midget submarines, 39 Fast Attack Craft, 237 torpedo boats, 140 patrol craft and various other amphibious forces including 58 hovercraft.

Army: Estimated over 1 million, including an elite commando force of 70,000 men. 3600+ Main Battle Tanks, 140 armoured cars and 2000+ APCs.

Airforce: 70,000+. 3 light bomber, 11 ground attack, 12 interceptor, 1 reconnaisance, 3 transport, 14 helicopter and 7 training squadrons.

This is what they have on active duty...Not to mention that every DPRK citizen goes through compulsory reservist training and theres a lot more equipment stored away. And also consider the fact that the terrain in that country is very mountainous, and would not help an invading country in the slightest.

I don't think the DPRK could win a protracted engagement, but the potential losses the US would suffer and the possibility of a nuclear engagement is enough to make the US shy away from the possibility.

i still say the n.korean army ir propably trained a thousand times better than the american one. just look what those retards are doing in iraq! scared as fuck shooting each other, way to go usa! usa would never have balls to use any nukes for there would be heavy retaliation. imagine if the n.koreans just create one massive wave by shooting the sea, that could pretty much wipe out whole japan for example.. it would be a long long war and would end up in usa leaving the country.. just like vietnam.. that's my guess anyways.. and whatever the case usa has no resources to start any more unjustified pointless wars.. thank god.. by the way nice job re-electing a war criminal.. yu guys really do suck ass..

yu guys really do suck ass..

We kick ass son. Now take Von Blitzwhatever his dinner of grubworms and mushrooms and you two go sacrifice your goats to your volcano god or whatever it is you do wherever you come from, and give the nice anthropologist back his lap top.

Damn natives.

Like Kentucky fried chicken and New York Pizza?

"New York Pizza"-huh? Dude are you one of those foreigners who wear those sweatshirts that say "US University"?

All your base are belong to us!!

I think it could end up possibly similar to Vietnam. An American General from the Vietnam War (I forgot his name or where I heard it from) said this about the war, "We're losing this fight because of this, when a Vietcong soldier awaits to ambush he will stay there day and night as long as it takes and will not move, but when an American soldier awaits to ambush he needs to get up and take a piss." Grant you that most of the army back then was drafted, drafted = less devotion it could happen again possibly if there was another draft. China would not get involved because the hardliner former President and Chief of the Army of China (same person) is out, plus China would have a great deal to lose economics wise should they help North Korea in a war against the U.S. Maybe this whole "Mutual Protection Pact" is just a myth because the Western world somehow thinks all (evil) communists are allies?

No China has the pact for a most likely number of reasons.

Here our just a few:

1. N.korea is a sort of buffer country for china in case of a U.S led invasion. If it was annexed the buffer would be gone and china would have one of the most anti-communist countries at its borders, with missiles most likely pointed at them.

2. Its good for economy considering N.korea is one of the leading countries in developing new ideas for balistic Missiles and other various warheads.

3. I think they would rather have N.korea as an ally in asia then lets just say Japan.

4. China is the only country N.korea really listens to.

don't forget N.k. has the largest number of Special Ops in the world, they may not have such sophisticated high-tech weapons like other countries, but their will power is strong and they are determined to sacrifice for their leader(their only father and God). infiltration into the south has been conducting for more than 50 years. assassination, kidnap and taken over of important govenment facilities will happen when the invasion begins, in that case, part of the South Koeran's regular army will have to deploy at the back to deal with these problems. when the rear is in chaos and artillary fire(it's believed the North can shell over 470000 in the very first hour) hammered at forntline and Seoul, and the US begin to counter attck after the shock(only one US division now deploy at South), we go right back to 1953. but of course unless US nuke them, it would be another story.

Yeah i stated that in previous posts.....However rather then N.korea attacking the south,what would happen if America attacked N.K..

I live in Seoul.

I'm not sure what the big deal is. Yes, the two countries are seperated by a huge heavily fortified DMZ (which is a lovely tourist trap btw) and yes Kim Jong Il is a slightly loony dictator whose father imposed communism on top of a Confuscian society (society is arranged in a vertical order, you must follow the rules, defer to those higher/older/more powerful than you, don't question the status quo) which makes for some scary brainwashing and some scary powers. But at the same time Kim is not insane. A little off, yes, but not insane. He knows that NK could never win against the South or America and he knows that his people are starving and the country is very poor. He puts everything into the military and even then it's a struggling military. He survives on making empty threats and setting off nuclear tests in full view of the South. The international community sees this and gets all excited, absolutely sure that a war is pending only to realize a week or a month later that nothing is actually happening.
The North is just showing off in a bid to get some aid from America (they used to get stuff from Clinton all the time) or just to show their displeasure with some festival or action in the South. For instance, when the new president of South Korea was inagurated, what looked like nuclear bombs were detonated off the coast of North Korea.

It's all bluster and showing off. North Korea doesn't want a war, because then people would find out just how weak they are.

Well considering you live in Seoul, you our most likely the prime target if and thats IF they attacked. Many people believe this because of the vast dated artillary positioned towards Seoul which many people have stated could be annihilated within a couple of days. However the reason they will not attack is most likely due to Americas involvement in the war. As even if they won through a blitzkrieg and quick war, America would most likely send in a bigger force and overstrech N.korea..

Well considering you live in Seoul, you our most likely the prime target if and thats IF they attacked. Many people believe this because of the vast dated artillary positioned towards Seoul which many people have stated could be annihilated within a couple of days. However the reason they will not attack is most likely due to Americas involvement in the war. As even if they won through a blitzkrieg and quick war, America would most likely send in a bigger force and overstrech N.korea..

If they do attack they lose any sort of special treatment that they get right now and will be pretty much annihilated. Like I said, Kim is a bit off, but he's not insane. He knows that NK wouldn't be able to hold up to against sort of full on attack.


Also, this might seem relatively minor to many people, but South Koreans are now allowed to make tours into North Korea along set routes with tour companies that have been approved by the North. They are also reconnecting a railroad between South Korea and North Korea. Also economic sanctions on some small businesses have been relaxed in NK and people are being allowed to set their own prices on some good within reason. Of course all of their profit still goes to the state... but at least that's a start.

The US should invade N-Korea next week.
yeah and you lead the way... :mp5:

Lol as I said their battle relies on the sleeper cells and lightning quick attacks from their nation..But I am also not disputing the fact that N.K and S.K are actually getting along and maybe within a few decades or so will unite. However this thread was more on the topic of who would win if America invaded N.korea.

We kick ass son. Now take Von Blitzwhatever his dinner of grubworms and mushrooms and you two go sacrifice your goats to your volcano god or whatever it is you do wherever you come from, and give the nice anthropologist back his lap top.

Damn natives.

Well actually I'm from Finland, the world's most technologically advanced country by UN stats..

http://www.eubusiness.com/imported/2001/08/55691

so why don't you fck off
:)

Hey, cool it, people.

Unfree People
Forum Moderator

Lol as I said their battle relies on the sleeper cells and lightning quick attacks from their nation..But I am also not disputing the fact that N.K and S.K are actually getting along and maybe within a few decades or so will unite. However this thread was more on the topic of who would win if America invaded N.korea.

Like there really are winners in wars. Has USA defeated even Iraq yet? I sure as hell don't think so, since according to your war criminal president "the war ended" you've lost what, like a thousand soldiers? And the best part, the opposition is growing bigger day by day.. nice job!

Well I made this thread just out of curiousity, seeing as their has been so much talk of these two locking horns. So I ask you to discuss this:

1. Whether N.Korea's Military is underestimated. As to my knowledge the last time their military was checked was a while ago? (Don't know the exact time, correct me if i'm wrong.

2. Wil N.Korea become more of an conventional or unconventional war much like vietnam and the current affairs within Iraq.

3. Who will win if China aid them? As it appears they have a defense pact of some sort, and I wonder how China would feel if a new american-friendly goverment took over? And maybe they keep the treaty with N.K because of that added protection.

4. Is the food underestimated? As their have been several rumours that they have been preparing for a war like this, and therefore have stored several crates of food and supplies within secure underground facilities.

5. The Missile and W.M.D. Capibilities of N.K.

6. The ability of the so-called "Hackers army " they have trained.

7. The N.K special forces and how much of an asset our they.

" I assume you have heard the story

Well go ahead and discuss and I found these links helpful.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3099.htm

http://www.g2mil.com/korea.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/FI10Dg01.html

1: I think so, one fourth of their population serves the military in some way if I remember, and their entire economy is aimed at maintaining a large force. Also, their Soviet and Asian modified weaponry, whilst obsolete, still packs a punch (Let's face it: There's a limit to how powerfull bullet-based rifles can be, and AK-47s get awefully close)

2: Ground fighting would be terrible for the US. The terrain and climate alone is brutal for invaders from a totally different continent. Add to that the huge amount of soldiers hungry for American milk-shake flavoured blood and you can bet it will be a long and painfull struggle. If they use their traditional "Shock and Awe" terror campaign they will only kill countless unrecruited civilians. It requires carefull thinking to take North Korea. If such a war ever happens, for America's sake I hope they have the brains to take care.

3: If China joins, the US loses. The US doesn't have the resources the fight that country, and would never be able to occupy it. China's Russian-hordes human wave attacks make ground battles virtually impossible for America to win. Because they also have quality weaponry to boot, thanks to their 'comrades' from the ex-Soviet Union. Did anyone know Asians are masters at copying foreign weapons and modifying them to make them more suitable for their purposes?

4: There must be a reason why the majority of the population in NK is vastly underfed. The Vietnam kept many caches of suplies including food hidden for later use, and if NK uses the same method that would explain everything. Hopefully, if the threat of war dies out the government will distribute the stolen food amongst its peasants again, because hunger is one of the greatest problems that bothers NK.

5: I don't think they're just bluffing, and I know for a fact they want nukes to scare off America. If they had the ability to throw a warhead on Los Angeles, they could win the America-North Korea war easily. Bush is a fool, but I can't imagine even him provoking a country that can take out such a commercial center as California. Even if it was mostly Democratic. Hmmm

6: I don't know anything about Hacker armies. But it would be funny to see what happened if they bankrupted the US with the push of a button and click of a mouse.

7: Seeing as how even female cops in China get extensive martial arts training, I shudder to think what Kim wants his troops to be. Of course they might never live up to his expectations, but he puts all his efforts into creating a powerfull, well trained and equiped fighting force. Also add the fact that North Koreans can't stand Americans and you'll have a determined and unreasonable opposing army.

The US could win if they put all their efforts into it. But it won't be a cakewalk. Since WWII they haven't fought an army with superior tactics, equipment or technology. Koreans are not like turban-wearing fanatics hauling RPGs and AK-47s through the desert, Middle East fighters have been very disorganised in the past and had to rely solely on stealth, terror and resourcefullness. Asians are killers, they can be an overwhelming force if need be. Japan and the Vietcong proved this, and so did the Indonesians, Chinese and Indians to nations other than the USA. If there is one thing I know about war it is that an underestimated is the most dangerous opponent.

Ok first I would like to state that people should refrain from flaming on this thread. And rather then turn this into a mudslinging contest, can we just have a civilised debate.

And Watercove I agree with nearly all those points :) .But as for their food, I do believe they our experiancing some kind of drought. However as you said they most likely have done that due to their Anti-american Ideals.

Red Pheonix by Lary Bond is a good novel on the subject, fiction of course, and slightly dated, but good.

hmm.... some one said that the US could muster a bigger force and crush the DPRK... that would be difficult considering their Army, is BIGGER then ours... they have something over a million in the regualr army pluss reserves and other branches. we have 1.4 million total, everything, including the active reserves. the US is almost certaily better trained, but it wouldn't surpise me if the DPRK is better at ti then we suspect, for some reason they remind me of a modern Sparta. as far as food goes, they might not have a lot, but they're danmed sure used to not having it, as opposed to americans, are generaly used to plenty. the DPRK also, acording to heresay, has insane tunnle complexes, susceptible to bunker busters if you can find them, but generaly handy for hiding in, stockpiling, things like food and amunition, they probaly have a billion tons of rice squirled away and half a trillion rounds for their AK's ect. North Korea would by no means be an easy nut to crack, and could easily end in another draw, espceialy considering i've heard estimates of another 10 years before US troops are out of Iraq. And god help the poor american infantryman that has to fight in those mountains, particuraly in winter. As we've seen in Iraq(err... afghanistan), even the vaunted 10th mountian is poorly trained and equiped for mountain warfare.... War in Korea, against what looks like a pretty determaned, huge army, in horrible terrain, would be just plain miserable.

Their diet does not include happy meals.

Best and most relevant post seen here :p :p :D Thumbs up! Pitty that your opponents are such boring people that lack your funy humor.

Red Pheonix by Lary Bond is a good novel on the subject, fiction of course, and slightly dated, but good.

hmm.... some one said that the US could muster a bigger force and crush the DPRK... that would be difficult considering their Army, is BIGGER then ours... they have something over a million in the regualr army pluss reserves and other branches. we have 1.4 million total, everything, including the active reserves. the US is almost certaily better trained, but it wouldn't surpise me if the DPRK is better at ti then we suspect, for some reason they remind me of a modern Sparta. as far as food goes, they might not have a lot, but they're danmed sure used to not having it, as opposed to americans, are generaly used to plenty. the DPRK also, acording to heresay, has insane tunnle complexes, susceptible to bunker busters if you can find them, but generaly handy for hiding in, stockpiling, things like food and amunition, they probaly have a billion tons of rice squirled away and half a trillion rounds for their AK's ect. North Korea would by no means be an easy nut to crack, and could easily end in another draw, espceialy considering i've heard estimates of another 10 years before US troops are out of Iraq. And god help the poor american infantryman that has to fight in those mountains, particuraly in winter. As we've seen in Iraq, even the vaunted 10th mountian is poorly trained and equiped for mountain warfare.... War in Korea, against what looks like a pretty determaned, huge army, in horrible terrain, would be just plain miserable.

Indeed it is good....And where can we find this book as it is rather interesting

Kim Jong-Il would go mad and start nuking us, but our skud missles would take them out, than we would nuke them and their skud missles would take ours out, so the US with its coalition (The ones that have armys unlike Costa Rica) England, Italy, Spain, Filipines, Japan, South Korea etc. Would invade, their starving poorly trained army would be quick to surrendur as they are outnumbered and hate Kim Jong-Il than we would put Kim into a prison where he would sing "Im so 'ronery' so 'ronery'"

Like there really are winners in wars. Has USA defeated even Iraq yet? I sure as hell don't think so, since according to your war criminal president "the war ended" you've lost what, like a thousand soldiers? And the best part, the opposition is growing bigger day by day.. nice job!

Okay buddy let me clear some things up for you, I can insult Bush and my countrys war on Iraq, but you can not!

Okay buddy let me clear some things up for you, I can insult Bush and my countrys war on Iraq, but you can not!

Everyones entitled to their own opinion period...

One point.
NK would probably win.
It'd most likely (If they were smart) Turn into a war much like Iraq.
Their army is far better trained (wait for that clause) To fight in a jungle, and you'd be fighting on their terf. Which is part of the reason why Iraqi fighters do so well now.

If you have even half a million men shooting and disappearing, your going to take quite a few casualities.
Even if you conquer the country, chances are you'd have one hellvua a time holding it, with a population larger than iraq's, and all things considered, your having a hard enough time there.

You'd win the battle, but probably loose the war.

Maybe.......But it will be difficult for 1 million plus men to all fight a unconventional battle.....But indeed America I believe cannot win in their current state of affairs.....Unless they do a draft of course or use W.M.D..As they seemed to be streched thin and another front would surely be a bad idea....

Indeed it is good....And where can we find this book as it is rather interesting

i have no idea... i have a copy somewhere. anyway none of what i wrote about there is realy mentioned in the book.

Here is a link to some good information on what NK has.
Militaries of the World - North Korea (http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=4446&view=findpost&p=93726)

But I think that one thing should be mentioned - the Nk does not really have the missiles to take out the West Coast of the US with out us knowing well in advance that they were going to be used - their missles are not stored fueled - they have to be fueled and US spy satalites would pick this up.

And all the US would have to do to end the war is get one nuke in to take out MR. Divine Leader. I don't think that what was left would stand up and fight. Especially if the NK started it all, and China - who is close to saying "Hey nutcase you are on your own" as it is - didn't provide any aid for NK.

3: If China joins, the US loses. The US doesn't have the resources the fight that country, and would never be able to occupy it. China's Russian-hordes human wave attacks make ground battles virtually impossible for America to win. Because they also have quality weaponry to boot, thanks to their 'comrades' from the ex-Soviet Union. Did anyone know Asians are masters at copying foreign weapons and modifying them to make them more suitable for their purposes?

'China's Russian-hordes' human wave attacks cost both the Japanese, Russians, Koreans, Vietnamese, and Chinese forces millions of men for small gain. Theis tactic is hardly effective, and has been proven so repeadedly since the end of World War I. The Russians used it, and were repeatedly and thouroughly outmatched by lesser numbers of Germans. The Koreans tried this tactic initially in the Korean war and were outmatched by lesser numbers of Americans, Canadians, and British. The Vietnamese tried this tactic at the outset of the Vietnam war, and were thoughly defeated by lesser numbers of American forces. The Chinese tried this tactic when attempting to capture the Dalai Lama during the invasion of Tibet. Lesser numbers American special forces preforming a rearguard action outmatched the Chinese reguardless of being significantly outnumbered.

7: Seeing as how even female cops in China get extensive martial arts training, I shudder to think what Kim wants his troops to be. Of course they might never live up to his expectations, but he puts all his efforts into creating a powerfull, well trained and equiped fighting force. Also add the fact that North Koreans can't stand Americans and you'll have a determined and unreasonable opposing army.

Martial arts are part of standard training in the American army. It's not a flamboyant martial arts like Kung-fu or Karate. The training is based upon a descending series of attacks. First, the usage of long-range projectile weapons. Second, the usage of short ranged projectile weaponry. Third, the use of projectile weaponry as melee weapons. Forth, the use of bladed weapons in melee combat. Fifth, unarmed combat. It concentrates on bone breaking and fatal holds and strikes.

1. Whether N.Korea's Military is underestimated. As to my knowledge the last time their military was checked was a while ago? (Don't know the exact time, correct me if i'm wrong.


Not underestimated. They check it all the time.

2. Wil N.Korea become more of an conventional or unconventional war much like vietnam and the current affairs within Iraq.


Nuclear war appears publicly to be the US option for war on the Korean peninsula - it is the first option.


3. Who will win if China aid them? As it appears they have a defense pact of some sort, and I wonder how China would feel if a new american-friendly goverment took over? And maybe they keep the treaty with N.K because of that added protection.


China would not help them.


4. Is the food underestimated? As their have been several rumours that they have been preparing for a war like this, and therefore have stored several crates of food and supplies within secure underground facilities.

No, they are definitely starving. Their army may have some food stocks, but that won't do any good if a large number of nuclear detonations take place there.


5. The Missile and W.M.D. Capibilities of N.K.

A few nukes, a few missiles capable of hitting Japan. Possible stocks of smallpox, definite stocks of sarin and mustard. Mostly a threat to South Korea and Japan.


6. The ability of the so-called "Hackers army " they have trained.

Bogus. Have you seen the official North Korea web page? Nuff said.


7. The N.K special forces and how much of an asset our they.

They may be capable of causing some initial disruption, but if they follow the previous pattern they have established, they'll die in the process. Soon, you run out of guys.

The US is way too involved in the Middle East to think about invading Korea...estimates of 10 more years in Iraq are pretty common from the Pentagon. As an added deterrance to the US, China and Russia just signed a deal to perform joint military operations on the Chinese border. What are the odds some of those exercises deal with an invasion of Korea?

With the US so heavily involved in difficult and unpopular actions in the Middle East, the rest of the world has some room to maneuver. I'm sure all the "bad guys" are going to be raising hell, mostly irritating but nothing major, unless Turkey decides to invade Cyprus.

NK can't invade SK without China's approval, and everybody know that. As someone else mentioned before, that isn't good business for China. In the years to come, as China becomes the dominant manufacturing base for most of the world, they will become less dependant on US money. Then setting NK loose isn't as painful. If we see the NK army starting to gain weight, we'll know something is up.

It might not be a bad idea for the US to start making friends with France and Germany again.

Eternal Dragon, are you Korean or something? Because you seem hell-bent on defending the awesome-kick-ass-must-destroy-all power of North Korea. I know someone from North Korea(one of my roommates) and he says its a big hell hole where everyone is poor.

North Korea is lame. Who cares about a country where their guns are made from broken twigs and mud. Watch out! That guy has a rock . . . oooo, powerful. Without China's help, North Korea is a pushover.

North Korea is lame. Who cares about a country where their guns are made from broken twigs and mud. Watch out! That guy has a rock . . . oooo, powerful. Without China's help, North Korea is a pushover.

Oh yeah, we are so superior because we deliver better arms at our pupet regimes. Hope they nuke ya in the ass when the time comes and don't target the real Americans.

Oh yeah, we are so superior because we deliver better arms at our pupet regimes. Hope they nuke ya in the ass when the time comes and don't target the real Americans.

wait, what? Because we deliver better arms? I could have sworn this was a "North Korea vs America" battle. The hell are you talking about?

The hell are you talking about?

Your ingnorant ass :)

Sorry bout that, the opportunity to score was way to "open".

Your ingnorant ass :)

Sorry bout that, the opportunity to score was way to "open".

huh? that was weak.

It's ok man, if you're scared of them, I'll protect you.

huh? that was weak.

It's ok man, if you're scared of them, I'll protect you.


A big BOOH to North Korea, hope they are afraid now. :)

More serious, I am following you guys and find it terrible that they don't even accept help that does not come from the US or the EU (communist China's latest food program help was refused :rolleyes: ). How many deads to starvation there: 1 million? More? Less? We even don't know, even the NGO's from the West don't have acces.

Must be one of the worst places to live right now. I say this just by watching the lack of information that that regimes is showing.

China won't help for what reason? Are you serious. If the US declared war on NK they would be in a world of trouble. China would flex their muscle because they can and would love to intimidate America. NK has a well trained army and compulsory service so there is no shortage of people able to fight. Don't under estimate fanaticism it goes along way to believing everything you are told and therefore dying for your country is a noble cause. NK is controlled by one man and he feeds his population on a diet of himself, there is no other opinion so everything his people see, read and are taught is from him, ergo not a smart move to goto war with them in the first place. Only takes one nutta with a breifcase bomb in say NY city and suddenly you have a rather large casualty list and a rather disillussioned American population. I would not under estimate NK at any cost and I believe to do so would be incredibly foolish.

Okay buddy let me clear some things up for you, I can insult Bush and my countrys war on Iraq, but you can not!

Dude we all insult Bush and your countries War on Iraq its like a past time where i live. Up there with Football and Rugby as a major entertaining feature on TV. BTW dont take it too seriously.....unless your last name is Bush.

Their diet does not include happy meals.
Their diet probably doesn't include anything. They're starving in there. Ppl who have escaped from NK have spoken of some resorting to cannabilism in order to survive.
I think if anyone invaded, most would put up a token resistance. Some would of course fight to the death, but most wouldn't. They don't want to be there.
The reason his borders are so heavily guarded is to try to keep ppl in, not out.

The hell are you talking about?
You forgot to add 'Willis' at the end of that sentence.
As in
"Whacha hell yo talking bout, Willis?"

If they brought back hockey, this stuff wouldn't happen....TV is boring without it so they need to have another war to entertain/terrify the world.

All conflicts are based around the presence of hockey.

Ok, seriously though, I severely doubt USA will be going to war with NK anytime soon.... NK actually *does* have WMDs afterall...

I don't know enough of this subject to put an informed opinion, but in my opinion, though hard, (and assuming no WMD strikes), the US would start to lose, but in the end, would win. Basically, should NK attack, they would most likely overrun most UN/SK defences. But after that, having the US war machine been set in motion, their ass would be kicked hard. I doubt China would support NK.

Hell, considering the interests of China, one could assume that they would outright invade NK in their own right, should NK attack anyone, and just annexate the place :P (okay, maybe not)
so the Korean war without Chinese intervention?

China won't help for what reason? Are you serious. If the US declared war on NK they would be in a world of trouble. China would flex their muscle because they can and would love to intimidate America. NK has a well trained army and compulsory service so there is no shortage of people able to fight. Don't under estimate fanaticism it goes along way to believing everything you are told and therefore dying for your country is a noble cause. NK is controlled by one man and he feeds his population on a diet of himself, there is no other opinion so everything his people see, read and are taught is from him, ergo not a smart move to goto war with them in the first place. Only takes one nutta with a breifcase bomb in say NY city and suddenly you have a rather large casualty list and a rather disillussioned American population. I would not under estimate NK at any cost and I believe to do so would be incredibly foolish.
And a full fledged salvo launch turning China into a radioactive parking lot.

and of course the NK's would get a fair bit of the missiles as well.

I'm pretty sure the 2nd Infantry Division and the ROK military can hold off a North Korean invasion long enough for more U.S. divisions and possibly some Australian military to be landed and push back the NK army.

Despite NK's huge army with massive number of artillery pieces (which can inflict massive damage). Logistics wins wars, and the US and ROK has a serious advantage on them.