NationStates Jolt Archive

I am surprised so many people think of themselves as christen. As far as I can tell, religion in Europe is weakening day by day. How many of this NS-christians are non-american?

Me for one :mad::sniper: :mp5:
there are many others too. many just can't be bothered writting back to such a stupid statement.

I am surprised so many people think of themselves as christen. As far as I can tell, religion in Europe is weakening day by day.
you'd never know it to look at our ballot initiatives and election results, but religion is weakening in America, too. the number of people identifying as "secular or non-religious" has been climbing steadily, while the number of people identifying as Christian has been dropping just as fast. minority religious groups have been fluctuating in number slightly, and there isn't a clear pattern on how their numbers are changing just yet.

92% of Finns are Christian (mostly lutheran, few othodox and catholics) but I would say (pure quess) only 15% are truly religious whilst most of them believe in some kind of God but don't go to church or think about it except when it comes to funerals, weddings etc. But me, I'm not religious at all and don't belong to any church.

And I believe it's quite the same in all Northern European countries. Southern Europe is still more religious though it seems religion has lost some of it's importance.

Yesterday the Times (london) reported 10% of UK voters attend church weekly and 2% more than weekly. (It looks as though the 2% are included in the 10%). For Bush voters, figures are 63 and 58. see http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-2-1351930,00.html

Of course there are non US Christians. But Christianity is a far less potent force in Europe.

I quess some of recent events points out that religion has no place in politics in Europe anymore. e.g. the fact that even some conservatists were against Buttiglione and that there is no mention about Christianity in the EU constitution (well they did have some serious conversations about it)
Also one reason why Europe is so anti-bush is that he is too religious (which is not the problem) and mixes religion with politics. He keeps saying God is on his side (on the war against Iraq) while Pope is against the war. Hmm?

There may also be a difference in the kind of religion between the us and europe.

I've heard that religion in the us is 'miles wide, inch deep'. That would mean that religion is everywhere in society, but doesnt have a strong effect on everyday life. Again, i've only heard that so maybe someone from the us could comment on it.
Now in europe there's clearly a smaller number of actively religious ppl, but the ones i know are really deeply religious. They don't just talk about religion, but base important decisions on it.

Personally i'm not religious at all and i'm happy to see it disappear from my country (the netherlands).

Fundamentalist christianity in the USA, such as practised by the Religious Right, is a strange version of the religion.
For instance, it ignores most of the Commandments (particularly those about not coveting, not killing, not committing adultery, not worshipping false gods) and has nothing to do with biblical sayings quoting the difficulty a rich man would have in getting into heaven, and seems to concentrate entirely on stopping other people have sex ...

USA is based on Christian values. Or at least that is what I hear every once in a while. But if it's so, and Americans are more religious than Europeans why can't I see it in real life? I live in a socialist democratic country and think that we have all these welfare programs because our values are based on Christian beliefs. And while we are not as religious anymore, we still have maintained these values (well during past 5-10 years greediness has raised it's ugly head). take care of the less fortunate etc

I wouldnt say religion weakening is realy a bad thing, the less infulence they have the more freedoms for the majority i say.

I quess some of recent events points out that religion has no place in politics in Europe anymore. e.g. the fact that even some conservatists were against Buttiglione and that there is no mention about Christianity in the EU constitution (well they did have some serious conversations about it)
Also one reason why Europe is so anti-bush is that he is too religious (which is not the problem) and mixes religion with politics. He keeps saying God is on his side (on the war against Iraq) while Pope is against the war. Hmm?

Who says God is on the popes side? ;)

Who says God is on the popes side? ;)
Well both are bad, but if God chooses Bush over pope I'll be damned ;)
I'll be damned anyway as I don't think there's anyone on either side.
But the level 2 of damnation sounded pretty good, so I don't mind.

Fundamentalist christianity in the USA, such as practised by the Religious Right, is a strange version of the religion.
For instance, it ignores most of the Commandments (particularly those about not coveting, not killing, not committing adultery, not worshipping false gods) and has nothing to do with biblical sayings quoting the difficulty a rich man would have in getting into heaven, and seems to concentrate entirely on stopping other people have sex ...

Well it's a little more complicated than that.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that all fundamentalist Christians voted for Bush to begin with - although the majority did.

And also don't make the mistake of thinking that most fundamentalist Christians support the entire Bush agenda. Most of them do donate massive amounts of money to charity willingly. The thing of it is, is that they don't like the way social services are run, specifically welfare for unwed mothers, secular schools and the like. As such they'd rather have no social programs than the ones currently in existence. Also, a lot of them don't agree with the death penalty either. (Actually a lot of them don't like the war in Iraq, because Christain missionaries didn't go in right after the troops to convert people).

What it comes down to is that neither party platform really supports their views and the republicans come the closest because of the stand on abortion and supporting "prayer" in schools and stuff. Also they happen to think that the Democrats are atheists. Never assume however that they ignore vast parts of the bible just because they voted for Bush.

I would imagine if the fundamentalists ran the country, taxes would be very high, and there would be a lot of government programs - just not in the same form you see today. (Like they'd probably happily fund socialized medicine in general, but not abortions). Also I'm sure they'd spend lavishly on religious schools.

Don't make the mistale of judging them all by Pat Robertson and the more famous televangelists.

(It's interesting to note that devout catholics now tend to vote Republican, despite being a tradtionally Democrat block, not because they disagree with a great deal of the Dems platform - indeed it fits better with their world view than Bush's - but because abortion has become the single issue for them.)

do catholic pro-lifers in america think that bush would outlaw abortion?

My gosh...some of you people are incredibly blind.

Alright. Religion may not be as influental in todays modernistic society as it once was, but it is still very important. The true Christian relies on the Bible as the final authority on all matters that pertain to applicable issues, including the death penalty, which it highly endorses...read the old testament. Also I think it's a fallacy that some people think religion is bad. We need more genuine religious people in our country, because it is the Christians' ethics and moral values which are the standard on which the founding fathers based this country which directly led to the greatness the U.S. has achieved. Also, they favor small government, military and other things that the uneducated mind might think we see as evil.

do catholic pro-lifers in america think that bush would outlaw abortion?

Err, I never met a "devout" catholic pro-lifer (other than John Kerry).

I assume most catholic's that are pro-life also seperate their religion from their politics, so they make the choices like everyone else (non-fundamentalist that is).

I expect some of them do think that George Bush would do it if he could. Bush can't though, he can only try an appoint pro-life Judges.

What I think is sad is how narrow minded the European parliment is becoming.
One man states openly that he thinks women should be home makers and that he considers gay relations a sin and he is blocked from office.
We now live in a democracy where only a few opinions are acceptable, surely we need a range of opinions even if we strongly disagree with them. If we don't then we will never challenge our own thought or opinions.
Very very sad. :mad: :(

What I think is sad is how narrow minded the European parliment is becoming.
One man states openly that he thinks women should be home makers and that he considers gay relations a sin and he is blocked from office.
We now live in a democracy where only a few opinions are acceptable, surely we need a range of opinions even if we strongly disagree with them. If we don't then we will never challenge our own thought or opinions.
Very very sad. :mad: :(

That's that guy from Yorkshire, right.

That's that guy from Yorkshire, right.
No it was the Italian, who was a devoute Chatholic, maybe if he had be a Satanist he would have been acceptable to the EU. No he had beliefs and was honest enough to tell people what they were.
Not a good combination for a modern politician I know, honesty and conviction.

No it was the Italian, who was a devoute Chatholic, maybe if he had be a Satanist he would have been acceptable to the EU. No he had beliefs and was honest enough to tell people what they were.
Not a good combination for a modern politician I know, honesty and conviction.

Oh, okay.

I remember some Euro-MP from the UKIP saying something about a woman cleaning behind the fridge this summer. But I didn't pay much attention. Actually it might have been a joke, I am not sure.

What I think is sad is how narrow minded the European parliment is becoming.
One man states openly that he thinks women should be home makers and that he considers gay relations a sin and he is blocked from office.
We now live in a democracy where only a few opinions are acceptable, surely we need a range of opinions even if we strongly disagree with them. If we don't then we will never challenge our own thought or opinions.
Very very sad. :mad: :(
Oh please that's not the case.
He can believe what ever he wants but we can't allow a person with such thoughts to have that particular job he was going to get. How can a man who thinks women should stay home make decisions about equal rights? It's like having a finance minister who supports communism.

Originally Posted by NianNorth
What I think is sad is how narrow minded the European parliment is becoming.
One man states openly that he thinks women should be home makers and that he considers gay relations a sin and he is blocked from office.
We now live in a democracy where only a few opinions are acceptable, surely we need a range of opinions even if we strongly disagree with them. If we don't then we will never challenge our own thought or opinions.
Very very sad.
He also said that single mothers were a problem. I'm not sure Europe wants to be represented by people like that...