NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't care whether he's a terrorist or champion of the little man, someone exploiting the gullible masses or speaking their true voice, a man or some freakishly hideous woman hiding her true self, the fact is that his death will bring no good to the world. Not now. The forces he controlled are now free of a guiding hand that undoubtedly curbed some of the more possible extremes. The forces opposed against him are now faced with one less opponent, his might fighting amongst themselves and ripe for the picking.

The soon-to-come horrors seen throughout the Middle East will make those of the past pale in comparison. If you do not think there will be a severe rise in suicide bombings then you hold his followers in to high regard, if you think there will not be massive Israeli assaults against Palestinian land then you hold the Israeli government in to high regard.

I might be Jewish, the so-called Enemy of the Faithful (Yes, I have actually heard Judaism called such), but that doesn't make me blind to any view besides my own. I forsee much horror in the Middle East and I doubt much, if any, good will come of it.

Well that is a tough one.

I remember talking to a guy who said he was part of Hamas. Humanitarian side. He said that many though Arafats group was rather corrupt.

I once read he was a billionaire. Where did he get the money?

He was liked by many and yet was not.....

I have no opinion to the matter.

So, what? That's it? Only one post? Dear God, even my thread titled "Dr. Baron von Evil Satan" got a more of a response

I remember talking to a guy who said he was part of Hamas. Humanitarian side. He said that many though Arafats group was rather corrupt.I wouldn't be surprised. But my impression was that he had enough respect among the people, and enough power, that he could deliver peace of a sort[1] to Israel in a negotiation in return for a "reasonable" deal. Whether he would have is of course another matter. But who is Israel going to negotiate with now?

[1] With the way Hamas is (reportedly) educating the young, there will continue to be suicide bombings for another generation no matter what happens in the middle east.

I fear Klonar is right.

I'm an American Christian. But I have been praying for him to live, I don't like the idea of anyone's death.

maybe, but he was essentually another strong man, if the palestinians can't find new leadership to take his place, what were they going to do in a few more years when he would have inevitably died anyway. yugoslavia couldn't ultimately survive tito, because its contradictions hadn't been solved just covered up by a strong arm and a cult of personality.the palestinians need to grow up and take charge of their own destiny, daddy's gone and he aint comin back.

maybe, but he was essentually another strong man, if the palestinians can't find new leadership to take his place, what were they going to do in a few more years when he would have inevitably died anyway. yugoslavia couldn't ultimately survive tito, because its contradictions hadn't been solved just covered up by a strong arm and a cult of personality.the palestinians need to grow up and take charge of their own destiny, daddy's gone and he aint comin back.

They need to grow up do they? How can you "grow up" when someone - the Israelis - are constantly keeping you down? Very simplistic views, Nationalist Valhalla.

They need to grow up do they? How can you "grow up" when someone - the Israelis - are constantly keeping you down? Very simplistic views, Nationalist Valhalla.
bah, their oppression doesn't justify their abdication of their political destiny to a paternalistic strongman. they are amoungst the best educated and most cosmopolitan people in the middle east. they can do better and i hope they will. i actually don't expect them to fall into worse chaos than they already are with arafat's death. i think his death, and the political shake up to follow are likely to be healthy for the palestinian people.

bah, their oppression doesn't justify their abdication of their political destiny to a paternalistic strongman. they are amoungst the best educated and most cosmopolitan people in the middle east. they can do better and i hope they will. i actually don't expect them to fall into worse chaos than they already are with arafat's death. i think his death, and the political shake up to follow are likely to be healthy for the palestinian people.

Healthy in what way? What you are suggesting is that the Palestinians will have a "moderate" as a leader, in other words, one who will conform with Israeli and American perspectives.

That's not going to happen. Or at least it might happen in the short-term. But the daily repression of the Palestinian people will ensure that long-term, there will be someone even more radical than Arafat in charge. The radicalism is entirely conditioned and generated by Israel. They create extremism because they are extremist in their treatment of the Palestinians.

Or is that too simple a concept for you to understand?

Healthy in what way? What you are suggesting is that the Palestinians will have a "moderate" as a leader, in other words, one who will conform with Israeli and American perspectives.

That's not going to happen. Or at least it might happen in the short-term. But the daily repression of the Palestinian people will ensure that long-term, there will be someone even more radical than Arafat in charge. The radicalism is entirely conditioned and generated by Israel. They create extremism because they are extremist in their treatment of the Palestinians.

Or is that too simple a concept for you to understand?
so you subscribe to a variant of the old cold war doctrine of he may be a bastard but at least he was our bastard. arafat's presence was unifying in a stagnant monarchist sort of way. everyone paid lip service to his greatness, then went on to follow their own agendas under the threadbare umbrella of his banner. now they have to look honestly at their positions and determine their future path. now america, isreal and the world must look honestly at the palestinian people and decide how to proceed, without either the false hope or the banal demonization they they could heap on yasser's increasely frail shoulders.

I am torn on whether Arafat's death will be to the improvement or detriment of the situation. I am optimistic that some good might come of it, but now know from experience that optimism in regards to the ME is rarely realistic.

That said, I don't think that thinking this will make things worse is in itself a reason to "mourn" Arafat. The fact that one person's death may make things more unstable does not constitute a reason for elevating this person into someone positive, which is the connotation given by having someone "mourn" them. The fact that his death might cause the situation to further disintegrate does not translate to "Arafat was a nice guy and I'm sorry he's dead." It COULD translate into something like, "I think this will lead to more misery, and therefore it is bad", but that's hardly the same thing. One is focused on timing and the effects of a particular action, the other is focused on the individual person.

I for one see very few positives accomplished by Arafat, particularly recently. I do not see him as a good person or leader. I will not mourn him. I will instead mourn the deaths he and others like him, including Israelis and Americans, caused.

I once read he was a billionaire. Where did he get the money?

donation from the world to help the poor palastinian who had no home or food. most of it go to him, and the rest to the terror.

donation from the world to help the poor palastinian who had no home or food. most of it go to him, and the rest to the terror.

Not true, No money from international aid goes to Terrorism

How about you prove it rather than just throw wild accusations like that? I'm neither a Arab, nor a Jew, but I can see where their views come from. While both sides are letting their darker, more bigoted *cough* Sharon *cough* parts of their community control them, there just can't be peace. Sad, but true.

Not true, No money from international aid goes to Terrorism
no money from internatinal aid go to the civilians. the hamas and arrafat take control on all the money who send to the palastinian, because it's always going through them, and then they deliver it to terror.
reserches check the "neutral bank despoit fot the palastinians" and it's always go to the terror.
otherwise, how you explain arrafat richness when he never had business, rich family, or winning lottery tickets?

Hardheads, if you want proof, it is widely available on the internet, or on the major news outlets, like .... cnn, bbc etc etc..

It is widely known that him and his ilk are currupt.

As for Araf@$! Good ridance! You guys have so little idea of what his TV and other Media, spewes/ed out and how he governed. All you know is what you read in the papers.

I accept Israel as the "bad guy" in most people's eye .... I don't care. A nation of arabs made war on us, and we fight back. This is the ME, you look or act weak you will be destroyed.

I am Jewish, and I don't morn anyone who makes war on my people. You people in the "enlightened" west forget so easily who danced in the streets on 9-11.

Let's hope his death does some good and unite the Palestinian people for once, but then the alterative situation is not very nice.

Might unite them in grief. But in anything else? Not sure..Way too early to tell. But I for one am worried about the possibilities..And Kraketoa...Show me your proof, if you have it. Not by making statements like that, but by linking me to proof.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3995769.stm

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/11/international/middleeast/11arafat.html?8bl you will need a user name and login for this one

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_10.html


http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP45302


if you want more... just google it .

I don't care whether he's a terrorist or champion of the little man, someone exploiting the gullible masses or speaking their true voice, a man or some freakishly hideous woman hiding her true self, the fact is that his death will bring no good to the world. Not now. The forces he controlled are now free of a guiding hand that undoubtedly curbed some of the more possible extremes. The forces opposed against him are now faced with one less opponent, his might fighting amongst themselves and ripe for the picking.

The soon-to-come horrors seen throughout the Middle East will make those of the past pale in comparison. If you do not think there will be a severe rise in suicide bombings then you hold his followers in to high regard, if you think there will not be massive Israeli assaults against Palestinian land then you hold the Israeli government in to high regard.

I might be Jewish, the so-called Enemy of the Faithful (Yes, I have actually heard Judaism called such), but that doesn't make me blind to any view besides my own. I forsee much horror in the Middle East and I doubt much, if any, good will come of it.

Klonor, thank you for your thoughtful post. There's more hatred than sense at play in that particular corner of the world, and Arafat's demise is hardly cause for joy or celebration. It should serve as a warning sign that the status quo is in flux, with dire implications should opportunity not be seized by the horns and a conscious, sustained effort to find a solution amenable to all concerned not be striven toward.

Hardheads, if you want proof, it is widely available on the internet, or on the major news outlets, like .... cnn, bbc etc etc..

It is widely known that him and his ilk are currupt.

As for Araf@$! Good ridance! You guys have so little idea of what his TV and other Media, spewes/ed out and how he governed. All you know is what you read in the papers.

I accept Israel as the "bad guy" in most people's eye .... I don't care. A nation of arabs made war on us, and we fight back. This is the ME, you look or act weak you will be destroyed.

I am Jewish, and I don't morn anyone who makes war on my people. You people in the "enlightened" west forget so easily who danced in the streets on 9-11.


Well, if the Palestinians are a "nation" of Arabs, when the hell are you going to give them their country?

And the idea that this war is completely one-sided is the most laughable idea yet.

Some of us out here see fault on both sides. Perhaps that is impossible for you, but surely that is only because of your own "enlightenment".

I don't care whether he's a terrorist or champion of the little man, someone exploiting the gullible masses or speaking their true voice, a man or some freakishly hideous woman hiding her true self, the fact is that his death will bring no good to the world. Not now. The forces he controlled are now free of a guiding hand that undoubtedly curbed some of the more possible extremes. The forces opposed against him are now faced with one less opponent, his might fighting amongst themselves and ripe for the picking.

The soon-to-come horrors seen throughout the Middle East will make those of the past pale in comparison. If you do not think there will be a severe rise in suicide bombings then you hold his followers in to high regard, if you think there will not be massive Israeli assaults against Palestinian land then you hold the Israeli government in to high regard.

I might be Jewish, the so-called Enemy of the Faithful (Yes, I have actually heard Judaism called such), but that doesn't make me blind to any view besides my own. I forsee much horror in the Middle East and I doubt much, if any, good will come of it.

Well the appointment of Abbas as his successor is a welcome step in the right direction. He has been as moderate an influence as can be found in Palestine.

Abbas was one of the first top PLO officials to recognize Israel and distanced himself from terror activities. He led Palestinian negotiators in peace talks in the 1990s and already has a personal history of negotiations with Ariel Sharon. Abbas has also been a wellspoken critic of the armed conflict that emerged from the most recent Palestinian uprising that began in September 2000. He said what happened "is a complete destruction of everything we built."

The question, of course, is who will wind up getting elected to these offices as for now it is a caretaker situation, but it certainly sounds like the moderates are looking to control the Palestinian Authority.

The biggest problem, to my mind, is that while marginalizing Arafat over the past few years, Isreal has also pulled a lot of it's teeth which makes their task of reigning in the militants (Hamas etc.) that much harder.

But it's a good sign of the mindset of the current power brokers.

Healthy in what way? What you are suggesting is that the Palestinians will have a "moderate" as a leader, in other words, one who will conform with Israeli and American perspectives.

That's not going to happen. Or at least it might happen in the short-term. But the daily repression of the Palestinian people will ensure that long-term, there will be someone even more radical than Arafat in charge. The radicalism is entirely conditioned and generated by Israel. They create extremism because they are extremist in their treatment of the Palestinians.

Or is that too simple a concept for you to understand?

Arafat hasn't been a factor in the process for years. Hamas leaders never listened to him after the accord he supposedly reached with Rabin, which is why Israel had no problem confining him to quarters for the last three years. As far as "leadership" is concerned, I think there are just as many Palestinians who have no faith in political solutions as there ever were... probably even more now that the Wolfowitz Doctrine has given the world the idea that the U.S. no longer believes in political solutions either. With the new guiding principle of international relations as, "It's okay for us to kill you if you don't do what we say," I would speculate that the example being set by the world's last superpower will serve to fuel more and more violently polarized conflicts between all peoples and nations, both internally and externally.

It was an Israeli who assassinated Rabin, so I guess there must be at least a few Israelis who don't believe in peaceful political solutions either. Seems to be a trend. With the U.S. military trying to make sure that the only people left alive in Iraq are their toadies and the too-terrified-for-words, I don't forsee any political solutions in the near- or mid-term. Instead, I imagine that the variations of "final solutions" as are currently in progress will continue no matter who lays claim to the PLO treasury.

About time the bastard finally died! Good riddance! We should chop his body into pieces, deep fry them in pig fat, feed them to dogs, follow the dogs around and collect their crap, then bury the crap under a marker that says "Here lies Arafat."

As for his "successor," whoever it is should be handled the same way ASAP. The reason Arafat was "untouchable" was because he had been around so long that the Palestinian savages were very attached to him. The new "leader" won't last long, so they won't be too attached. Then repeat with every new "leader" the savage terrorists appoint, until there is no one left to lead or no one wants the job. They're off balance now, the Israelis should make sure they never regain it.

To be honest, I really hope there will be lots of in-fighting in Aza and Judea-Samarie.
Let the terrorist shiatheads kill each other instead of jewish children.
(almost two years ago, this sort of thing happened. Against pacifist left-wingers, nonetheless!) (http://www.sullivan-county.com/id4/jacoby2.htm)

About time the bastard finally died! Good riddance! We should chop his body into pieces, deep fry them in pig fat, feed them to dogs, follow the dogs around and collect their crap, then bury the crap under a marker that says "Here lies Arafat."

As for his "successor," whoever it is should be handled the same way ASAP. The reason Arafat was "untouchable" was because he had been around so long that the Palestinian savages were very attached to him. The new "leader" won't last long, so they won't be too attached. Then repeat with every new "leader" the savage terrorists appoint, until there is no one left to lead or no one wants the job. They're off balance now, the Israelis should make sure they never regain it.


Well, that was about as hateful a diatribe as I have seen in a while....

Every palestinian is a "savage terrorist", and no matter who they elect to try to lead them - that leader should be killed and their remains desecrated....



Yep - that way lies peace....

:rolleyes:

Well, that was about as hateful a diatribe as I have seen in a while....

Every palestinian is a "savage terrorist", and no matter who they elect to try to lead them - that leader should be killed and their remains desecrated....



Yep - that way lies peace....

:rolleyes:

I personnally believe Talgania is way too far to the left.

ara-fat-fuck's remains should be buried at multiple places, to lessen the waiting time to piss on his grave.

Well, if the Palestinians are a "nation" of Arabs, when the hell are you going to give them their country?

And the idea that this war is completely one-sided is the most laughable idea yet.

Some of us out here see fault on both sides. Perhaps that is impossible for you, but surely that is only because of your own "enlightenment".


I personally don't give any country to anyone.

I did not mention anywhere that the war is one sided. And frankly I don't believe in an "even" war.... I am out to win in any fight, not to be "even" One sided ... good because there is only one victor.

You see fault in both sides, well done! I never said I was enlightened.

Looks like you are fond of putting your own words in my text.. go ahead... I am not here to change your mind or "teach" anything.. This is my opinion. Not my country's or "my" people, MINE!

I personnally believe Talgania is way too far to the left.

ara-fat-fuck's remains should be buried at multiple places, to lessen the waiting time to piss on his grave.

Stop!

Next time you'll have a warning placed on your nation. Don't take my kindness in not giving you an official warning lightly.. I will next time.

Stephanie
Game Moderator

Here we go again. Anyone can say any hateful thing they want about President Bush, but let anyone say something about one of the left's beloved terrorist savages, and they are censored and repressed. Hypocrisy.

Using language in that way demeans your argument to that of a adolesant (excuse the spelling) child.

The subject is a touchy one, and cooler heads will prevail. Mine admitedly is a little hot.

Saying that moderators should be fair... I don't know about the history of the forums here, as you see it is my ... 5th post .

I also admit that profanity is a bad choice of words, even though hate speech is allowed.

Sorry about the f-word! :)