NationStates Jolt Archive

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
-Matthew 5:9

Why is it that the people that most strongly believe in the ideology of Jesus are also usually those that most strongly support war? Why is it that they are the first to defend leaders that that do the most damage to the budget, economy, steal the most basic civil rights from the people, are the richest and do the least to support those that need it the most when it is against one of the most central ideals of their religion?
America is going to see one of the biggest backwards movements of civil rights in history over the next four years because of a man that is held so highly for his moral beliefs and was reelected because of them; from the Patriot Act to a constitutional amendment banning basic rights as humans to people in the name of God and morality.
The War in Iraq has hit an estimated 100,000 (CNN (http://cnn.aimtoday.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=ne-us-12-l6&flok=FF-RTO-rontz&idq=/ff/story/0002%2F20041028%2F1457167130.htm&sc=rontz) ) Iraqi civilian casualties. The Red Cross and UNICEF have estimated 1.5 million civilian deaths in Iraq by United States bombing and sanctions since 1991. And 1,500,000 isn’t just a number it’s 1,500,000 little brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, best friends, and fiancés. The Reagan Administration was one of the bloodiest eras in America’s history, more than 70,000 political killings in El Salvador, more than 100,000 in Guatemala, 30,000 killed in the contra war in Nicaragua.
I will be the first to admit my bias. I am atheist and I am a liberal. But I can see conservatives from the outside, not from a discriminatory view or an intolerant view simply as a bystander watching the hatred, the prejudice of people that will so simply dismiss homosexuality as a personal preference and so callously deny them the legal right to express their love. In the words of Justin Sane, “You wave your flag, tell me I’m free. Then use the word ‘fair’ to F*** with me.”

I ask you, “What would Jesus bomb?”

I'm a christian and I completely agree with you(granted though, Im presbitarien)

This reminds me of the Onion article where Jesus kills a bunch of people in an abortion clinic because he believes, "Its an abomination in the eyes of me" and then he lunges at the reporter.

People will justify their misdeeds any way they can. How many "bad" people are really just good people who do bad things? Its no different in any other culture, its just human nature to misbehave and blame it on your beliefs or your situation...

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall take flak from both sides."

-Unofficial UN motto

i dont understand it either. of course i am jewish/buddhist ;)

Part of the problem is the God with Multiple Personality Disorder in the two Testaments. I admit I haven't read the Bible yet, but I understand that the Old Testament has a wrathful God, whilst the New has the more benevolent side of God after Jesus was crucified, etc. This is probably fairly influential, though I need to bone up on my Chirtianity knowledge some more...but damnit social insects and viruses are just so interesting!

And yet more people die in his name than any other.

What if the peacemaker is a woman?

Probably because most of the Christian conservatives don't recognize that the Republican Party's platform, at root, is fundamentally at odds with Christian tenets.

You see, most of the fundies and evangelicals, the biggest growth category both for Christianity and the Republican Party, have been raised and trained on an extremely strict diet of anti-homosexual and anti-abortion parishioning. For them, this is quite literally the greatest threat to morality in the world, and the decline of the America over the past 30 years is directly attributable to the decline of our willingness to punish those who violate these statutes. Now, this may be (and probably is) a wrong interpretation of the Bible, as it is so much more than that, but these are the cardinal issues that these people have learned to think in terms of politically. So, they ask themselves, which party has the best stance on these issues. Clearly, the Republicans are more amenable to their views than are the Dems. Ergo, they follow the Republicans.

Now, the problem is, this support of anti-abortion legislation and anti-homosexual legislation is really just a convenient way for the Republicans to buy out people who very likely might have voted Democrat otherwise. The reason why I say Christian fundies might well have voted Dem is because they have the most compatible moral outlook of either of the two parties to Christians: both Christians and Dems look at the world from an altruist standpoint. Real Republicans, however, underneath all their talk of "values", however, are pure egoists. This is one of the great reasons why Republicans are so big on capitalism: capitalism presupposes that men will act purely out of self-interest naturally. Dems, on the other hand, do not, and Christians as a rule believe that even if humans do look at the world that way naturally, they should not.

"Peace begins when war ends." _my butt 22:31

I want a response from a hardcore Bush supporter not ppl that think they know wuts going on inside conservative's heads. Because when u assume every Republican has an alterior motive you're just as bad as them.

i dont understand it either. of course i am jewish/buddhist ;)


Uhm. Which one?

I admit first of all, that I'm a moderate (thinking :)) Catholic. Anyway, I think we have to acknowledge that in certain situations, war, (unhappily) is necessary. Take the situation in Kosovo. Ethnic cleansing, and genocide were occuring, and after a period of time, it became apparent that the only way to stop it was through the use of force. The same in Rwanda, the international community simply applied diplomatic "pressure" on the Rwandans during the 1990's genocide, and so inside of 3 months, 100 000 people had been killed, by use of the bayonet. This could have been stopped, but instead, nothing was done. What is more unjust?

The reality is that in certain situations, it is necessary to wage war. The so called, JUST WAR docrine of the Catechism (paragraphs 2307-2317) sets out the stringent conditions that must be satisfied, they are as follows:

1) The damage inflicted by the aggresor on the nation/community must be lasting, grave and certain;
2) All other means of putting an end to it must be show to be impractical or ineffective;
3) There must be serious prospects for success;
4) The use of arms must not p[roduce evils and disorders greater than that eliminated.

On this basis, it seems that the Iraq war was unjustified, (and the Crusades a betrayal) given that it is not clear that war was the last resort. There may be conditions therefore, for a JUST WAR - Kosovo, Rwanda, and arguably WW II.

What if the peacemaker is a woman?

they shall also be sons

I admit first of all, that I'm a moderate (thinking :)) Catholic. Anyway, I think we have to acknowledge that in certain situations, war, (unhappily) is necessary. Take the situation in Kosovo. Ethnic cleansing, and genocide were occuring, and after a period of time, it became apparent that the only way to stop it was through the use of force. The same in Rwanda, the international community simply applied diplomatic "pressure" on the Rwandans during the 1990's genocide, and so inside of 3 months, 100 000 people had been killed, by use of the bayonet. This could have been stopped, but instead, nothing was done. What is more unjust?

The reality is that in certain situations, it is necessary to wage war. The so called, JUST WAR docrine of the Catechism (paragraphs 2307-2317) sets out the stringent conditions that must be satisfied, they are as follows:

1) The damage inflicted by the aggresor on the nation/community must be lasting, grave and certain;
2) All other means of putting an end to it must be show to be impractical or ineffective;
3) There must be serious prospects for success;
4) The use of arms must not p[roduce evils and disorders greater than that eliminated.

On this basis, it seems that the Iraq war was unjustified, (and the Crusades a betrayal) given that it is not clear that war was the last resort. There may be conditions therefore, for a JUST WAR - Kosovo, Rwanda, and arguably WW II.
Just war... meh: Augustine was such a cheerful fellow. "You're going to hell, you're going to hell... ugh! Like YOU'RE not going to hell :rolleyes: "

Well, I can tell you why my dear Aunt and Godmother (We're Catholic too) votes Conservative. (We're Canadian, but the Conservatives are the only party favouring America's current war.) It really came down to this: She doesn't trust politicians on economics, healthcare, the sky being blue, whatever. What she does know is that the Conservatives are going to keep down the gay marriage and are anti-abortion. Considering the fact that "Satan is so strong in this world" (Seriously, she said that) she relies on them for that, while she is "certainly not a warmonger". (Accurate quotations from her)
That's probably not an accurate picture of conservative voters, though.

Jesus would bomb Pat Robertson. :D

"What he say?"
"I fink 'e said blessed are the cheesemakers!"
*cheesemakers cheer*

Urm sorry, anywho. I agree same with the whole if your slapped on one cheek turn and show the other. They find a way to so 'Oh no it doesn't mean that!"