NationStates Jolt Archive

I know this is a dumb question, but do you think the EU should unite into one big superpower?

Correction: I meant tons "of" protests.

I don’t know if they should

I honestly don’t think they will for a long time … too much national pride (a lot rightly deserved)

The EU was never designed to become a superstate, it is designed to prevent another war in Europe and to try to stop the Soviet Union from trying to have their way on Western Europe. Of course all the "Realists" thought the EU would break up after the fall of the USSR and the fact that it is still intacted disproves the "Realist" theory on world politics and and makes the "International Society approach" or the "Liberal Internationalist" approach seem more correct.

Well it orginated from trading arrangements, as was primarily designed to bring old enemies closer together to prevent any more European conflict, with the advent of the Euro the idea of a unified Europe has come closer, and its arguable the new constitution also allows for this to happen. However public opinion in many of the memeber states wouldnt allow for it at this time, however it is the likely conclusion. The Union will increase again by the end of the decade to include Romainia, Bulgaria and Turkey at least. There is also talk of the Russians eventually joining

Yeah, too much nationalism. I don't see it happening without the people throwing a fit. Look at Europe's history. Unite? Hell would have to be a pretty cold place for that to happen.

European unity is primarily economic rather than cultural or political. It is too early for greater unity in those areas. One day though, we may discover it has happened.

It would be nice to see, but it won't happen. A loose federation like today is probably the best option.

No, I don't think we should. I do not want to see Europe becoming like the USA or USSR. Federal superstates do not work.

No, I don't think we should. I do not want to see Europe becoming like the USA or USSR. Federal superstates do not work.

If we arn't forced to adopt the same language then there is no reason why it wouldn't work.

The EU would never do it, for the simple reason that it would involve making it possible for Europe to act as the United States does now.

As long as they remain small nations (albeit rich), they won't have the ability or political will to project power in the same fashion as the United States.

But, unified, and giving substantial power to an Executive, would make them identical to the US - maybe not initially as willing to act in the same way, but it would be inevitable.

It will happen naturally, after years and years. Much of the esential beaurocracy is there already, but no government in the world could force it. If the Euro ever goes belly up, its gonna be in a tight spot.

Ps who said the Us isnt a good political and economic example? its the social welfare and culture and inequality that makes it a piss poor example of an medc.

who's gonna stop them linking up to act like the US? Its their choice not to be like that, no outside power enforces european disunity.

um...answers A and D (or 1 and 4 or whatever)

It would be a glorious day for Europe, with economic and eventually military power that rivaled my home, the USA. However, the people would never accept it and it would either break apart or just be worthless. Also, would England even join? They won't even use the Euro for god's sake.

No, I don't think we should. I do not want to see Europe becoming like the USA or USSR. Federal superstates do not work.

Explain to me how the USA is not working again?

Right all of you stop referring to the UK as England! We dont use the Euro because we werent in the first wave of countries to sign up to it, many EU states dont use it. We never signed up to it because our economy was not in the right condition for it (pound too high comparitively etc.) the conservatives amongst us generally oppose the whole thing, but then there aint many of em left anymore. Britain will probably be using the Euro within the next decade, as for the 'superstate' id say at least another 50 years but who knows maybe much more, maybe much less

I really hope it doesn't unite into one superstate, I think that would be bad for alot of people in Europe. I am in general, pro-european but I hope that Europe can just settle as a free trade area with limited regulation uniting nations within it politically. I really don't see the need for a federal europe and/or a rival to the US either militarily or politically, i just think a little more european influence in the white house is needed because we generally stand for the same values.

um...answers A and D (or 1 and 4 or whatever)

It would be a glorious day for Europe, with economic and eventually military power that rivaled my home, the USA. However, the people would never accept it and it would either break apart or just be worthless. Also, would England even join? They won't even use the Euro for god's sake.

we won't use the euro because we are proud of our heritage and our independence. the pound is still one of the strongest currencies in the world

I believe that Europe will one day, eventually, unite into a Federation (though necessarely looser than the US federation). This happens not just due to the gains of being one single economy, but also at a growing conscience of some sort of "european conscience". We also realise that our common defence is better done if we are togheter, speaking in one single voice. Offcourse, our cultural voice speaks very loudly. And the world will have to change alot to see those go away.

Basically I believe that Europe will become a Federation with one single Economy (eventually, one single tax system), one single Army, one single external policy. But the rest will stay with each Nation.

I'm completely against it. I can see the merits of economic union, which I support, but I just don't see the point in full political union. All it would mean is that decisions would be taken even further away from the people than they are now. There are no real benefits involved. The only people who would benefit from it are the power hungry European politicians who are eyeing up potential positions. Anybody who thinks that these politicians are actually doing it for the good of the people rather than for themselves is living in a complete dreamworld.

It is a good thing in theory but the problem is there is far too much burocracy. But also the thing is no country would be fairly represented. For example in the 1980s (86 or somthin I think) before Scotland had (partial) freedom. The UK elections were being held and the winning party got no seats at all in Scotland though they still got full power in the UK meaning they had full control over Scotland. I bileave the same would happen in Europe. Or for a more modern problem. Last year Scotlands entire fishing industy was almost destroyed because there was some risk of some types of fish dying off so the EU impossed bans on certian types of fish almost killing the whole fishing industy and Tony Blair hardly said a word about it in brussles even though there were outcrys from almost everyone Scotland (including alot of politions). And Norway fish these same fish from the same large habitat as the Scottish fishers but had no bans impossed on them. So no I don't think that Europe should untite because no one would be fairly represented.

(btw I agree with animal conservation but if they had impossed restricions on Norway as well then things would have been fairer and easier)

(btw I agree with animal conservation but if they had impossed restricions on Norway as well then things would have been fairer and easier)
The problem here is that Norway isn't in the EU, so they had no power to set any restrictions on them.

we won't use the euro because we are proud of our heritage and our independence. the pound is still one of the strongest currencies in the world

Abso-bloody-lutely!

I'm against the EU full stop. We don't need a federal government to tell us how to trade! We managed to do it as England for about 900 years (I count the Norman Invasion as the start of England as we know it...strange, huh?)and as the United Kingdom for around 200 years without any union.

Sure, we had lots of wars with European nations, but Napoleon IS considered the Hitler of his day. Religious wars with Spain, naval battles with the Netherlands, but we still managed to trade with them after this.

Also, the EU seems to have something against the USA.

I get the feeling the EU wants the UK (the motherland of the USA...or at least 13 states of them) to have nothing to do with the USA, which would be a grave error.

Sure, the UK - USA alliance doesn't have much respect right now, but the USA is still a major power, and a major power we could do with on our side for countless decades to come.

If the EU became a huge superstate, I'd either form an armed resistance and declare a part of countryside somewhere as an independent English/UK state and fight for it, or just move to the USA.

we won't use the euro because we are proud of our heritage and our independence. the pound is still one of the strongest currencies in the world

I've no idea where you've travelled beyond the UK, but assuming you have, tell me - when you were in that other place, using Euros, or Dollars or whatever else, were you less British? Did your heritage vanish, because the coloured paper in your purse didnt have the word "Pound" printed on it? Surely not.

Using the Euro you would have no less political independence than you do today (unless of course you can currently set your own personal interest rates, or can control the Bank of England somehow).

What about the fact that the UK has only had the currency it uses today since 1971? That the oldest design bank note (the £50) was introduced as recently as the early 1990s, and the most frequently used (£5) has been in circulation for only 12 months? Look at the coins in your pocket. Most of designs are less than 10 years old. The £2 and the 50p have only been in circulation since 97; the 10p since 92 and the 5p since 1990. The metal used to make the 1p and 2p coins was changed at the end of the 90s. The pund coin has been around since 1984, but the design changes every year. The oldest design coin we have is the 20p, and that was only introduced in 82!

British Euro coins would have the Queen's head on one side, and the usual "ELIZABETH II DG REG FID DEF" inscription. And you wouldn't lose all that money on commission, or poor exchange rates, everytime you took a trip to Ireland, France or wherever else.

Whats the problem?

The problem here is that Norway isn't in the EU, so they had no power to set any restrictions on them.

ah well fair enough though if Scotland had a voice in the EU I bileave that we would have had much laxer laws meaning our fishing could survive

ah well fair enough though if Scotland had a voice in the EU I bileave that we would have had much laxer laws meaning our fishing could survive

An independant Scotland would be better for us all, its own voice within the EU. Plus smaller states seem to get more out of it. I look forward to the day that we stop feeling the pain of Londons agenda.

Eu wont never be a big State, just a confederation. that will be its power.

Also, would England even join? They won't even use the Euro for god's sake. I wish we would. I'm fed up with all these stick in the muds who say "It was never intended to be.....(insert whatever here)". So what. Times change, plans change, things move on.
To be globally competetive and to hold a global political stick we need to be a united Europe.

good point England should be able to decide if England wants to join not the whole UK

Also, would England even join? They won't even use the Euro for god's sake.


Neither does Sweden, so?

But no, I don´t see that happening (I can´t be arsed to explain why, sooooo tired, going to fall asleep...ZZZzzZZzz).

Using the Euro you would have no less political independence than you do today (unless of course you can currently set your own personal interest rates, or can control the Bank of England somehow).
I thought he was talking, when referring to independence, to England itself. Currently, the pound offers more economic independence than the Euro would - no ECB, no stability and growth pact, even though thats been violated regularly in the past few years.

Frankly id rather Scotland was a state in the EU than ruled from London.

Frankly id rather Scotland was a state in the EU than ruled from London.
I'd rather Scottish MPs didn't have a vote in matters that relate purely to England.

The problem here is that Norway isn't in the EU, so they had no power to set any restrictions on them.

How about the Royal Navy? :D That'd teach those damn vikings to fish in our waters!!!

I'd rather Scottish MPs didn't have a vote in matters that relate purely to England.

Democracy is better the closer to the people it represents. Enough said? No.. I'd prefer a scaling down of the EU in favour of separate free-trade treaties with each nation where beneficial. It forces each country to be competitive with each other and focus on what they are best at. Sort of like capitalism but between nations rather than business (not that that is a description that will promote my point of view to all you pro-EU lefties...) It also forces nations to set lower business taxes than are now present, which means less business goes off-shore to places like India and in the past, the US. I know this is a grossly simplified view, but its all I can care to explain right now. It would also mean scrapping the EU parliament and everything to do with the EU, which would give us tax-payers a break.

I know its not going to happen with the Euro already in place, but this board is a place for idealism, not realism.

My idealism would define the EU as a small villa on the outskirts of Brussels, with 25 bedrooms and a large conference hall. Paid for from the wages of the national leaders themselves. :D

Realisticly, I could deal with it in its present form without it imposing laws on me left right and centre (well, mostly left). I'm perfectly happy buying my veg in pounds, ounces and pound sterling. If I wasn't I'd buy from a shop that sold it in metric units. I'm perfectly happy, as a non-smoker, to go into a bar and have others smoke there. If I wasn't happy I wouldn't go in the bar.... do you see what I'm getting at? Stupid, over-bearing laws and judiciary. Mostly the fault of the EU, may I add. Thats my biggest gripe at them.

So, to answer the poll: NEVER!

The very idea of a common European defence is ludicrous. Individual states have their spheres of (perceived) influence, for instance the UK-US 'Special Relationship', the Franco-German common interest pact, and France's long standing friendship with Mid-Eastern countries.

It would be a glorious day for Europe, with economic and eventually military power that rivaled my home, the USA. However, the people would never accept it and it would either break apart or just be worthless. Also, would England even join? They won't even use the Euro for god's sake.

America didn't have a national currency until well over 100 years. Seriously, all the issue being discussed here are the same issues the early colonies had. The EU is headed the way of America, only a better America where rights outside the federal government haven't been eroded to nothing. I honestly believe the EU will the be cause of the revival of "state's right", competition is a good thing!

America didn't have a national currency until well over 100 years. Seriously, all the issue being discussed here are the same issues the early colonies had. The EU is headed the way of America, only a better America where rights outside the federal government haven't been eroded to nothing. I honestly believe the EU will the be cause of the revival of "state's right", competition is a good thing!

Don't worry state's rights will die out there too. An oppressive government led by a power hungry leader will suspend rights and commit war crimes to keep your 'Union' together. Kinda like what someone did in this country about 150 years ago...

Don't worry state's rights will die out there too. An oppressive government led by a power hungry leader will suspend rights and commit war crimes to keep your 'Union' together. Kinda like what someone did in this country about 150 years ago...

Yeah, the current state is crap, however, the constitution was written well enough that it would only take a single ruling to bring back around those rights, the people just need to wake up! More and more states are going against what the fed. gov't wants them to, and the states are winning, look at Oregon, California, and Nevada. It's really only a matter of time, unless it all gets squashed!

Democracy is closer to ideal when theres a smaller group of people involved. It would just lead to more people getting gipped.

And that's with reform. It's really undemocratic now.