NationStates Jolt Archive

Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for responding to the identity card consultation on 1 June.

This is further to our email of 4 June.

I should explain at the outset that the Government's decision to proceed with the introduction of a national identity cards scheme is based in part on the fact that we will have to introduce more secure personal identifiers (biometrics) into our passports and other existing documents in line with international requirements. Right across the world there is a drive to increase document security with biometrics. If our citizens are to continue to enjoy the benefits of international travel, as increasing numbers of them are doing we cannot be left behind. It is worth remembering that 21 of the 25 EU Member States (all apart from the UK, Ireland, Denmark and Latvia) have identity cards.

I must emphasise that we have never said that the identity cards scheme is intended to be the sole solution to identity fraud, illegal immigration and working, or terrorism. The scheme is therefore not being designed to be the primary method of combating these problems.

However, the Security Services have said that an ID card will help combat terrorism. Sir John Stevens says it will help. We trust the judgements of those people whose job it is to fight terrorists. A card scheme would disrupt the use of false identities by terrorist organisations, for example in the money laundering and organised crime. We know that at least one-third of terrorist suspects make use of false identities. The scheme would also be a useful tool in helping to monitor and disrupt the support activities of terrorist networks.

People's identities are incredibly valuable and too easily stolen - ID fraud is a growing crime, costing the country more than £1.3 billion per year. Multiple or false identities are used in more than a third of terrorist related activity and in organised crime and money laundering. Lack of clarity over someone's identity also presents risks to the public and private sectors when providing services. It is crucial we are able to confirm and verify our own and others' identities quickly and easily. (Consequently, we believe that there are further clear benefits to be gained from biometric identity cards.)

Certainly, it is expected that the cards scheme will be attractive to counterfeiters and fraudsters, just as current identity documents are. This is why we are looking at strengthened identity checking procedures, biometrics, an effective Register and improved physical security measures both for existing identity documents and for identity cards. The existence of a biometric and the fact that this will be checked should act as a major deterrent to criminals.

With regards to your concerns on cost, it is envisaged that most people will join the scheme when they apply for or renew their driving licence or passport for which charges are already levied. The minimum charge to obtain a 10-year passport from the UK Passport Service is £42 and the full cost of obtaining an initial 10-year driving licence from DVLA is £38. In practice the cost that many people currently pay for these documents is around £8-£10 higher when taking account of the cost of photographs and services that check that forms have been completed correctly and the right documentation enclosed. These costs would be included in a national identity cards scheme.

If the Government did not implement a scheme which covered everyone but concentrated purely on implementing more secure passports and driving licences including biometrics, initial estimates suggest that the 10 year cost of passports would rise to around £73 and driving licences to around £69. Under the national identity cards scheme, our best initial estimates are that the annual running costs of the UK Passport Service by 2008/9 are £415m; by introducing ID cards on top of already-planned passport enhancements an addition cost of £85m has been estimated; this would combine to an estimated £85 for a combined passport and identity card package. Please be aware, however, that these are indicative costs based on current best estimates

The charges for enhanced passports and driving licences and the charge for the plain Identity Card would allow us to offer plain identity cards free to 16 year olds and a discounted card for those on low incomes, as well as a lifetime card for the elderly.

With regards to your concerns about freedom, I can assure you that an identity card will safeguard an individual's identity rather than constrain his or her civil liberties.

An identity card will strengthen peoples' privacy because it will provide highly verified evidence of identity rather than being asked by private sector organisations for a range of less secure documents which may contain a broad range of additional information not relevant to checking an individual's identity. The existence of a register is not a threat to privacy; 44 million people in this country are already comfortable with their data being held by DVLA or Passport Service. Privacy is only threatened if there are not sufficient safeguards to disclosure. The Government has set out these safeguards in the Bill for Parliament to establish.

There will be no requirement to carry a card all the time; this is specifically prohibited in the draft Bill. However, many people may well choose to carry a card. There will be no new powers for the police to stop someone and demand to see their card.

Many people may, of course, choose to carry their cards voluntarily and the police already have powers to take steps to identify a person who has been arrested for a recordable offence, including checking biometric information. There are also classes of criminal offences which are non-arrestable and are enforced by sending a summons. In these situations, the police have to be certain of a person's name and address. If a person refuses to identify themselves in these circumstances or the police are not satisfied with the information given, they also have a power of arrest after which biometric checks can be made.

As mentioned on above, by building a base for a compulsory national identity cards scheme, what we gain over and above just adding biometrics to existing documents are the benefits of secure identification and a register to hold the information.

Yours faithfully,

Identity Cards Programme Team


Meh. I'm not looking forward to 2015.

I never understood why people are against idenity cards. You have a problem with people verifying who you are?

Meh. I'm not looking forward to 2015.
Why?

No free-born englishman should be made to own an identity card.

I never understood why people are against idenity cards. You have a problem with people verifying who you are?

Yes. It's nobody's business who I am. An ID card database isn't going to identify me any better than my passport or driving licence already do, but it is going to give the government and its friends in MI5, the police, private investigation companies with friends in the police force, terrorists with computer hacking capabilities etc etc access to my identity.

We register births to protect children and to give everyone a membership of our civil society. Therefore everyone who exists already has a membership. They shouldn't be constantly called upon to prove it.

I think the article quoted said that over 1/3rd of terrorist crimes involve fraudulent identities. Having more ID documentation isn't going to help much, and indeed according to the article it isn't designed to help much.

I'd like to be able to book and use a hotel room without proving who I am. Why should I not be able to do that?

But without an identity card, how do we know that you're a free-born Englishman? Hmm....

Dear Sir or Madam,

Thank you for responding to the identity card consultation on 1 June.

This is further to our email of 4 June.

I should explain at the outset that the Government's decision to proceed with the introduction of a national identity cards scheme is based in part on the fact that we will have to introduce more secure personal identifiers (biometrics) into our passports and other existing documents in line with international requirements. Right across the world there is a drive to increase document security with biometrics. If our citizens are to continue to enjoy the benefits of international travel, as increasing numbers of them are doing we cannot be left behind. It is worth remembering that 21 of the 25 EU Member States (all apart from the UK, Ireland, Denmark and Latvia) have identity cards.

Is this some kinda competition? Why don't we also have decent socialised healthcare to, if we want to be just like Europe?


However, the Security Services have said that an ID card will help combat terrorism. Sir John Stevens says it will help. We trust the judgements of those people whose job it is to fight terrorists. A card scheme would disrupt the use of false identities by terrorist organisations, for example in the money laundering and organised crime. We know that at least one-third of terrorist suspects make use of false identities. The scheme would also be a useful tool in helping to monitor and disrupt the support activities of terrorist networks.

So who do we believe? The Home Secretary (who is unable to have an iris scan btw like many others in Britain), who said on Radio 4 a few months ago that it will not help combat terrorism (I'll try and find a link) or the security services (who i think just want new toys to play with)?

And to me, spending billions creating a central database and setting up this scheme is not justified by knowing that 1/3 of possible terrorists will have to tread a bit more carefully.

People's identities are incredibly valuable

Go figure
With regards to your concerns on cost, it is envisaged that most people will join the scheme when they apply for or renew their driving licence or passport for which charges are already levied. The minimum charge to obtain a 10-year passport from the UK Passport Service is £42 and the full cost of obtaining an initial 10-year driving licence from DVLA is £38. In practice the cost that many people currently pay for these documents is around £8-£10 higher when taking account of the cost of photographs and services that check that forms have been completed correctly and the right documentation enclosed. These costs would be included in a national identity cards scheme.

I hope my Dutch Passport can save me (if not I'll become that nationality of my mother, Irish)

Meh. I'm not looking forward to 2015
Ditto. Looks like I have ten years to leave the country now.

But without an identity card, how do we know that you're a free-born Englishman? Hmm....
Trust him. It isn't as if he'll lie about it. Or ask for his birthcertificate

Well I don't know much about what plans are in the works so it's kind of hard to comment on it. Don't want to make myself sound like a fool :)

Next step genetic data bases, bar coded tatoos or number on our arms, the right given to police to enter your home at any time and check for illegal activity (after all if you have nothing to hide it won't bother you), the right for police to stop and detain anybody they want at any time.

Trust him. It isn't as if he'll lie about it. Or ask for his birthcertificate

Of course there's a chance that I would produce the birth certificate of someone who died in infancy, but I'm willing to take that chance.

Next step genetic data bases, bar coded tatoos or number on our arms, the right given to police to enter your home at any time and check for illegal activity (after all if you have nothing to hide it won't bother you), the right for police to stop and detain anybody they want at any time.

It's the end times, number of the beast.

(after all if you have nothing to hide it won't bother you),
Cannot stand it when people use that reasoning (and yes I realise you are using it sarcastically)

It's the end times, number of the beast.
We need an old priest and a young priest!

<re "nothing to hide you've nothing to fear".
Cannot stand it when people use that reasoning (and yes I realise you are using it sarcastically)
I notice that Tony Blair never told anyone whether his son had the MMR jab - yet he's nothing to fear from revealing the information - just chose not to. If it's OK for him to keep stuff secret - why not us?

Of course - when the new NHS computerised patient records system gets going it won't be long before someone cracks it and we all find out anyway.

Cannot stand it when people use that reasoning (and yes I realise you are using it sarcastically)
Well we are already part way there. The governement do hold a genetic data base,this does not only include criminals it also includes samples taken from people who gave samples to be eliminated from enquiries en mass. There are also very few restriction of what they can use those samples for.
All I am saying is that we should be very carefull about what powers we hand over to the gov and what liberties we are willing to give up, not just for our selves but for every generation to come.
I hate with a passion anyone who uses the 'if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't mind' argument.

What makes you think he got the shot on the NHS ;)

Well we are already part way there. The governement do hold a genetic data base,this does not only include criminals it also includes samples taken from people who gave samples to be eliminated from enquiries en mass. There are also very few restriction of what they can use those samples for.
All I am saying is that we should be very carefull about what powers we hand over to the gov and what liberties we are willing to give up, not just for our selves but for every generation to come.
I hate with a passion anyone who uses the 'if you have nothing to hide you wouldn't mind' argument.
A good way to annoy people that is asking would they be OK with cameras in there home, curtains becoming illegal etc.

They tend to become quite attached to their privacy when they're home is invaded.

The id issue is obviously an issue which the British population as a whole can relate to as its implications will mean a direct effect upon the entire population.Whilst on the one hand opposition to them perfunctuates the governments case with claims of infringements on civil rights and privacy.The government meanwhile put fowards the case of efficiency and security.

I am not opposed to changing our identification process to an electronic system as it seems the most logical evolution however I do not believe that posessing the cards at all times is necessary or fair.The ID cards should only be required in certain situations such as travel,credit checks,drivers licenses.Many people wish to maintain an arms length from the state (whilst respecting the law) and I think its in our interest as a whole to maintain their rights.

One potential flaw in the system is the enforcement of the ID cards, the best method of enforcing them according to the home office would be the substitution of the cards for the old style passport.There are several problems in this.Many people in the country who are eligible for a passport do not have one this is then complicated by the fact that much of the British population are eligible for duel citizenship.For instance I myself have an Irish passport as opposed to a British one,this was not a statement but rather because like many people in my situation it was simply easier for the whole familly to get the same set of passports.How would these problems be resolved?

If the cards are again used to substitute dirvers license's then what happens to those who do not drive?

Do the police have the resources to launch an effective campaign of enforcement through spot checks?

Can fines be issued for non application when it has already been hinted that complications would occur due to the fact that people would have to pay for the cards in the first place? We have already seen the governments failuire throught the national census to effectively gather detailed infomation.

Ther are of course the concerns of terrorism yet do these justify the further encroachment upon our privacy?The cards could easily be used as a method of persecution by a perfidious government.

Since these will effect us personally rather then economicaly or politically should they be introduced without a referendum? Since the idea of these cards were not an election issue and arguably failed to appear on the governments manifesto the argument that we have already voted in favour is shady.




I myself am still undecided on the matter and each time I hear of a government official discuss them they change their method of sale.

What is wrong with everyone today? ID cards are not the first step towards "Big Brother". They make us safer, not just slightly safer from terrorism but from inumerable things.

i agree that random house searches and having more information on a person than is stricktly nessissary is totally wrong - but we are not talking about that. we are talking about a little piece of plastic that proves u are who u say u are and your age. its hardly like the government cares what ur doing anyway if u don't do anything illegal anyway... check your egos at the door people...

What is wrong with everyone today? ID cards are not the first step towards "Big Brother". They make us safer, not just slightly safer from terrorism but from inumerable things.

Your right, ID cards aren't nessesarily the first stage to a Big Brother state. But they easily could be. I would rather not take the chance.

Currently the Government seems unsure about what information will be stored. Although due to space requirements they'll probably settle with minimal information (names, addresses, biotech details etc). But there does not seem to be any provision against what and how much can be added. This can easily creep to everything that can be gathered about you.

Also the issue on who has access to the information. Personally I don't trust the government to have my information or third parties not to attempt to get it.

It can also be cross referenced with other databases to build up a comprehensive picture of a person.

I don't care if it will never be done to me, I don't think it will. But I would rather the Government not have the capability to do so.

And care to prove how it makes us safer against terrorism and "from inumerable things."?

i agree that random house searches and having more information on a person than is stricktly nessissary is totally wrong - but we are not talking about that. we are talking about a little piece of plastic that proves u are who u say u are and your age.

I have one of those, its called a drivers licence. Why does anything more complicated need to be developed and forced apon me.

Again, there are no provisions against the Government adding infinite amounts of data on an indivuals database.

its hardly like the government cares what ur doing anyway if u don't do anything illegal anyway

Would you be OK with not being alowed to have curtains or anything that could obtruct the view into your house? It could after all, prevent domestic violence.

What about camera's in your house? Why should you care if you aren't doing anything wrong?

I could go on.

Your right, ID cards aren't nessesarily the first stage to a Big Brother state. But they easily could be. I would rather not take the chance.

Also the issue on who has access to the information. Personally I don't trust the government to have my information or third parties not to attempt to get it.

It can also be cross referenced with other databases to build up a comprehensive picture of a person.

I don't care if it will never be done to me, I don't think it will. But I would rather the Government not have the capability to do so.

And care to prove how it makes us safer against terrorism and "from inumerable things."?



I have one of those, its called a drivers licence. Why does anything more complicated need to be developed and forced apon me.

Again, there are no provisions against the Government adding infinite amounts of data on an indivuals database.



Would you be OK with not being alowed to have curtains or anything that could obtruct the view into your house? It could after all, prevent domestic violence.

What about camera's in your house? Why should you care if you aren't doing anything wrong?

I could go on.

"Papers please" says the nice man in jackboots.

First they went after the guns "to make it safer". Crime goes up, a lot. "We need to install cameras everywhere to make it safer". "Why should you worry if you're not doing anything wrong". Hunting is about to be banned. No need for any guns anymore. Now a national ID card "to keep you safe".

Where would you like your vidscreen installed?

"Papers please" says the nice man in jackboots.

First they went after the guns "to make it safer". Crime goes up, a lot. "We need to install cameras everywhere to make it safer". "Why should you worry if you're not doing anything wrong". Hunting is about to be banned. No need for any guns anymore. Now a national ID card "to keep you safe".

Where would you like your vidscreen installed?
There are already two up in Liverpool and Manchester (and possibly a few other places).

Also, what happens if you loose your ID card?

Presumably all other forms of ID become null and void, meaning you may run into a few difficulties with authority

What is wrong with everyone today? ID cards are not the first step towards "Big Brother". They make us safer, not just slightly safer from terrorism but from inumerable things.


An ID card will make me safer from what?

Police brutality?

An ID card will make me safer from what?

Police brutality?

It will keep you safe from that annoyance called freedom. I could see it being tied in w/ your finances. Purchase an item, swipe the card. Nice way to track people.

It will keep you safe from that annoyance called freedom. I could see it being tied in w/ your finances. Purchase an item, swipe the card. Nice way to track people.
You really are cynical aren't you. It isn't as if the government has done anything to betray our trust now is it?

But without an identity card, how do we know that you're a free-born Englishman? Hmm....

Or a slave ?

You really are cynical aren't you. It isn't as if the government has done anything to betray our trust now is it?

Yes that is right. Government never betrays your trust.

Cards. Heh. Why not just go all out and have numbers tattooed onto your arms? ;)

Cards. Heh. Why not just go all out and have numbers tattooed onto your arms? ;)
That'd be too illiberal, unlike forcing people to pay up on a useless piece of plastic

yay

more EU paperwork to ruin people's lives :headbang:

yay

more EU paperwork to ruin people's lives :headbang:
This isn't the EU, it is a pet project of Blunkett. He thought of more ways to screw with our lives on his own initiative.

"Papers please" says the nice man in jackboots.

First they went after the guns "to make it safer". Crime goes up, a lot. "We need to install cameras everywhere to make it safer". "Why should you worry if you're not doing anything wrong". Hunting is about to be banned. No need for any guns anymore. Now a national ID card "to keep you safe".

Where would you like your vidscreen installed?
dude u rock

That'd be too illiberal, unlike forcing people to pay up on a useless piece of plastic

Take this advice; if you want to make money, make them expire every three years, and charge for renewal. ;)

This isn't the EU, it is a pet project of Blunkett. He thought of more ways to screw with our lives on his own initiative.
screw with our lives makes it sound like we have no power to resist, but i think that we do, personally i'm ok with it as long as there is a definite line to do with privacy policies and personal intrusion

Take this advice; if you want to make money, make them expire every three years, and charge for renewal. ;)
i'd b prepared 2 pay if it meant that at an emergency scen when i was knocked down by a car somebody could c my blood type and friends phone numbers on a piece of plastic

the problem starts wen u 4get to bring urs with u 1 day and get stopped :sniper:

Take this advice; if you want to make money, make them expire every three years, and charge for renewal. ;)
Ha ha, I like your style.

Screw with our lives makes it sound like we have no power to resist, but i think that we do, personally i'm ok with it as long as there is a definite line to do with privacy policies and personal intrusion
The only reason we mayy have no power to resist (which I feel is not the case) is because of the complacency of the average British subject and the non-arguement "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear."

And I doubt there will be that line.

actually i'm gettin a bit extreme witht the snipers and ninjas :mp5:
at least there rnt any green men shooting bogies







yet











































:gundge:
my hand slipped

i'd b prepared 2 pay if it meant that at an emergency scen when i was knocked down by a car somebody could c my blood type and friends phone numbers on a piece of plastic

You can do that now. Why do you need a government mandate?

But if you're willing to pay your government for it, by all means. Who am I to argue? :)

i'd b prepared 2 pay if it meant that at an emergency scen when i was knocked down by a car somebody could c my blood type and friends phone numbers on a piece of plastic
You can already get cards like that. As well as ones listing allergies.

Things David Blunket hates....

confidence tricksters
the conservative party
harold shipman
anyone not in support of ID cards
old people
harold shipman
liberal democrats
dogs
harold shipman
harold shipman
middles classes
have i metioned harold shipman?

Things David Blunket hates....

confidence tricksters
the conservative party
harold shipman
anyone not in support of ID cards
old people
harold shipman
liberal democrats
dogs
harold shipman
harold shipman
middles classes
have i metioned harold shipman?

You forgot people with criminal records being lucky

I don't care anymore. I realised that we don't exactly live in a 'free' society long ago. Democracy? Where'd you get that idea? Has your local or national government done anything democratic lately? I know mine hasn't. Our constituency is in uproar every five minutes. National government isn't much better. All democracy means is that you vote for the person you want to be dictator. As they're all pretty much the same these days, that isn't much of a heart-warming prospect.

If you think about how screwed up the world is, you'll end up suffering from clinical depression before you're 40. So I just live by one code: leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone. So far I've lived life pretty hassle-free. I'm the most law-abiding person you could ask for -- I don't even speed. I'm a granny-driver. Only, without causing tailbacks on the motorway. I could do with some tax-relief, but that's not likely. I hate socialism.
If I don't get bothered by it, the government can do whatever they want (within reason, obviously (killing people in foreign countries for no good reason and lying about why is unreasonable, for example)). If these ID cards don't give me any more hassle, they can do whatever they like with them. They can look at all the boring things I buy if they really want, they can watch everywhere I go if they can stay awake. They can stick a miniature camera to my briefcase if they're desperate for entertainment, but they won't get any. If I get hassled at all, however, especially by the police -- well, I'll give them a reason to arrest me.

I have the right not to be on the system.
That is all I will say.

However, for all us mad and insane people who think that it is an infringement on civil liberties, I doubt we should worry about an introduction of the scheme anytime soon.

Things just don't seem to work in this country.
Just look at the technical program to replace paper medical records with electronic casenotes in the NHS. A program that will eliminate my NHS employment (I retrieve medical records for admissions). It just won't be happening anytime soon what with all the technical bugs and the ever spiralling costs.
Same with ID cards, apparently 10% of the test cards failed to be recognized by the system and simply disappeared. Britain works in mysterious ways....

I have the right not to be on the system.
That is all I will say.

However, for all us mad and insane people who think that it is an infringement on civil liberties, I doubt we should worry about an introduction of the scheme anytime soon.

Things just don't seem to work in this country.
Just look at the technical program to replace paper medical records with electronic casenotes in the NHS. A program that will eliminate my NHS employment (I retrieve medical records for admissions). It just won't be happening anytime soon what with all the technical bugs and the ever spiralling costs.
Same with ID cards, apparently 10% of the test cards failed to be recognized by the system and simply disappeared. Britain works in mysterious ways....
I think it may have something to do with the fact that the Government likes to go for the cheapest option, rather then the one that is the best quality.

Also the fact that rather then cut loses it'd rather throw money at something in the hop it goes away

The Empire of Presidency has solved the problem of ID cards by implanting a trackable, programable micro chip the size of a single grain of rice in the hand or forhead of ALL its citizens. Those who do not have the chip are imediatly executed on site. This program has worked for years now and is highly suggested to be used by other nations. The technology is for sale if said country/ nation is interested.

The Empire of Presidency has solved the problem of ID cards by implanting a trackable, programable micro chip the size of a single grain of rice in the hand or forhead of ALL its citizens. Those who do not have the chip are imediatly executed on site. This program has worked for years now and is highly suggested to be used by other nations. The technology is for sale if said country/ nation is interested.
Which site?

OK. I usually ignore typos, but that one was too irresistable[sp]

I think most people who have these 1984-reactions to things like this just have a lot of dirty secrets they don't want to let out. Hmmm...so do I now that I think about it. Down with Big Brother...I mean, um, what were we talking about.

I think most people who have these 1984-reactions to things like this just have a lot of dirty secrets they don't want to let out. Hmmm...so do I now that I think about it. Down with Big Brother...I mean, um, what were we talking about.
Yeah? And? So what?

Personally I have no 'dirty secrets,' I'm a fairly straight arrow.

However, the state still has no right to do something like this.

Le bump

Yeah? And? So what?

Personally I have no 'dirty secrets,' I'm a fairly straight arrow.

However, the state still has no right to do something like this.
Even if I have no guilty 'secrets' which I don't think I do, I'd oppose ID cards on principle. They tried to bring them in before and it failed, it's up to us to manage a repeat performance!

This isn't the EU, it is a pet project of Blunkett. He thought of more ways to screw with our lives on his own initiative.
It's hilarious that Blunkett still thinks that he is on the left of the party, his policies are 'leftist' and he has an imaginary battle with his imaginary enemies on the Right. What he hasn't realised is how conservative his policies are...

What is wrong with everyone today? ID cards are not the first step towards "Big Brother". They make us safer, not just slightly safer from terrorism but from inumerable things.

i agree that random house searches and having more information on a person than is stricktly nessissary is totally wrong - but we are not talking about that. we are talking about a little piece of plastic that proves u are who u say u are and your age. its hardly like the government cares what ur doing anyway if u don't do anything illegal anyway... check your egos at the door people...
Problem is that it's only the first step. Once that first step has been made, further steps up the ladder become easier and easier because 'The important Decision has already been made'.

The only possible advantage I can see, is proving age/ where you live for librarys, post office ETC because currently I have no form of Valid ID (passport expired, don't Drive, and my Birth Certificate is 'insufficiant'). But even for these benifits I think the drawbacks far outweigh the benifits.

Hmm...

YES, my view is colored by the fact that I'm an American (specifically Californian, which means DL/ID has been part of normal life for at least the near-21 years I've been alive)...

but until I actually have a chance to take a look at the Bill for Parliament, I couldn't really tell either way. If the letter is accurate (and who knows on that front), it seems like the thing's just the superman bastard child of a motor vehicle licence and a passport and that it really doesn't change anything else that already exists... and if police in the UK are not already authorised to take in anyone who cannot satisfy identity credentials for offenses that do not in and of themselves justify arrest, please inform me, because if the new police powers are included in the Bill, it would pretty much become a Horrible Thing™ regardless of anything else in its text.

Problem is that it's only the first step. Once that first step has been made, further steps up the ladder become easier and easier because 'The important Decision has already been made'.

The only possible advantage I can see, is proving age/ where you live for librarys, post office ETC because currently I have no form of Valid ID (passport expired, don't Drive, and my Birth Certificate is 'insufficiant'). But even for these benifits I think the drawbacks far outweigh the benifits.
Wow. How exactly is you Birth Certificate insufficiant?

You'd be surprised how easy it is to forge one of those...as well as many other forms of identification.

Hmm...

YES, my view is colored by the fact that I'm an American (specifically Californian, which means DL/ID has been part of normal life for at least the near-21 years I've been alive)...

but until I actually have a chance to take a look at the Bill for Parliament, I couldn't really tell either way. If the letter is accurate (and who knows on that front), it seems like the thing's just the superman bastard child of a motor vehicle licence and a passport and that it really doesn't change anything else that already exists... and if police in the UK are not already authorised to take in anyone who cannot satisfy identity credentials for offenses that do not in and of themselves justify arrest, please inform me, because if the new police powers are included in the Bill, it would pretty much become a Horrible Thing™ regardless of anything else in its text.


It is not the fact that a new form of ID will be available. But the fact that it will be compulsory (considering the amount the state already steals you'd think they wouldn't be this cheeky, as well as the fact we already have valid forms of ID), will have biometric data on them, an a central database will be set up containing 'information' on us (as far as I know we haven't been told the exact nature of the information the state is giving itself the right to gather). This is of coarse undermining British law from the Magna Carta (innocent until proven guilty) and is being changed to suit Blunkett's purposes (which seems to be "Not guilty yet"). Personally, if this is passed, I think it will the beginning of when the state stops existing for the individual, and the beginning of when the individual exists for the state

You'd be surprised how easy it is to forge one of those...as well as many other forms of identification. And who is to say that the new cards won't be just as easy to forge? All you need is the right information and the right materials.
Also, a large proprotion of the population will be unable to have Iris scans. Including the blind (gee) and Albinos(?)

But your right. They aren't the hardest things to forge

Ah. Then to be even remotely viable, it would need binding oversight from the popular sector...

still, I wonder where the bill can be found in full review text online (and unless the formal name's been mentioned here somewhere, Google isn't going to help).

Also, a large proprotion of the population will be unable to have Iris scans. Including the blind (gee) and Albinos(?)

But your right. They aren't the hardest things to forge

Yeah...and after I get myself one of these ID cards, who is to say I won't become a terrorist, rendering them useless in that respect?

Yeah...and after I get myself one of these ID cards, who is to say I won't become a terrorist, rendering them useless in that respect?
Who's to say everyone will gladly accpet them?

Ah. Then to be even remotely viable, it would need binding oversight from the popular sector...

still, I wonder where the bill can be found in full review text online (and unless the formal name's been mentioned here somewhere, Google isn't going to help).
May as well start at the Government site:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/comrace/identitycards/index.html

Who's to say everyone will gladly accpet them?

True...I know I won't. Just think how much easier it will be for "terrorists" to move around when they have valid ID cards, though.

More importantly, how the hell does Blunkett still have this job? Incompetent oaf!

Isn't it like having a driver's license?

Isn't it like having a driver's license?
No, because the aim of a driver licence is to show you are competant enough to drive, rather then to help combat terrorism.

Also, it isn't compulsory, and won't lead to a national database of citizens

No, because the aim of a driver licence is to show you are competant enough to drive, rather then to help combat terrorism.

Also, it isn't compulsory, and won't lead to a national database of citizens

And last time I checked, a driver's license did not require any biometric data.

And last time I checked, a driver's license did not require any biometric data.
That too.

That too.

It will. So will passports. Biometrics and the new centralised information register will start with driving licenses and passports. If you haven't been hoodwinked into signing up by 2015, the ID card proper will be compulsory and backed up by a hefty fine and/or imprisonment. Which means the police can scan your fingerprints anyway, and add them to the register.

Good, eh?

It will.

I know :(

So will passports. Biometrics and the new centralised information register will start with driving licenses and passports. If you haven't been hoodwinked into signing up by 2015, the ID card proper will be compulsory and backed up by a hefty fine and/or imprisonment. Which means the police can scan your fingerprints anyway, and add them to the register.

Good, eh?
Devious *taps fingers together*

I'm fairly surely that Blunkett said the punishment for non-compliance would be a fine (5 grand if I remember) as not to create "ID card Martyrs." Which is a shame really, we "ID card martyrs" could have our own special prisons (seeing as there may be quite a few of us):D . It seems Blunkett might be hoping that he can recupe the cost of the whole by implementing punitive fines. Well, such is the state.

Which means I have two options if the introduction is inevitable. 1. Jump ship (may include learning a foreign language) or 2. Earning enough that I can easily pay the fine.

::EDIT:: News article Clicky! (http://www.guardian.co.uk/humanrights/story/0,7369,1204135,00.html)

The jokes on Blunket: I'm a crazy, freedom-loving hippy. I doubt that I'll ever be in possesion 5000 clams. Or that I'll be alive in 2015.