NationStates Jolt Archive

I. In America, you are apparently allowed to follow whatever religion you wish. Yet I find myself being dogged by Christians because I am an atheist. Snide remarks such as 'I sure do hope you get saved, moron,' and more grave ones such as 'God loves you anyway.' The religious who seem to believe that everyone who doesn't think the way they think is wrong make me sick. What about the Jewish? The Buddists? The Muslims? Are they all wrong, too?


II. I am not a Christian, I do not adhere to the moral laws of Christianity, and laws governing me should not reflect upon those laws. If my son is a homosexual and he wishes to marry his lover, he should have the right as an American to do so. Religion should have no influence upon that law. Love has no gender.

III. Nor should religion influence the views of abortion. Unless it actually is a developed fetus, a wad of undeveloped cells is a wad of undeveloped cells. It makes me sick to think someone can put laws and restrictions on my uterus, vagina and ovaries. It is my body and I will do damn well as I please with it.

IV. Integrity and compassion seem to be dead. I wander the halls at school or the streets in my neighbourhood and from all around me I receive hostility. Someone committed suicide because her parents threatened to divorce, I hear 'What a dipshit.' I owned up for a wrongdoing of mine to prevent a large group of people from suffering the consequences and I see other people pointing fingers every day, blaming their own actions on others for their own sake. When I ask my peers why they support Bush and not Kerry, they muster up, 'because Kerry's a fag!!' and 'because Bush doesn't look like a dog!!!1'.

Ours has become a nation of greed, violence and sex. The ignorance and stupidity of my peers terrifies me. I honestly fear for my generation.

There. I feel slightly better.

*pats*

There there. You aren't alone, trust me. America is becoming a hostile, hostile place for anyone not male, white, straight and Christian.

I...I know. I agree with you. I am becoming scared of humans...especially religion. Look how it blinds people! Comforting myths are not reality anymore. Science has given us so much, yet so many decline to acknowlage it actually is there.

Also, Chirstians have to be the most arrogant of all religious orders, they actually have the gall to go out and convert, one of the only religions to do so in the world. Why is Genesis nay more true the the Scandanavian creation myths et al.?

III. Nor should religion influence the views of abortion. Unless it actually is a developed fetus, a wad of undeveloped cells is a wad of undeveloped sells. It makes me sick to think someone can put laws and restrictions on my uterus, vagina and ovaries. It is my body and I will do damn well as I please with it.

A heartbeat can be heard at 21 days after conception...A hearbeat isn't life? I agree with you...you should have the right to choose wether you want children or not...but I think you should make that decision before you open your legs. Damn, there's so many forms of brith control that you shouldn't need abortion. It's very irresponsible to have sex and wake, and say "Woops, I had unprotected sex, and I didn't want a child. I guess I'll have to have an abortion." Damn.

Also, about the gay marriage, why? Why should we break a sacred union that was intended for man and woman? I'm not against giving homsexuals their rights and such...they deserve it. Why not give them their own union?

I backed Bush because he's the better candidate. He's straightfoward, not weak and wobbly like Kerry. Bush isn't afraid to kick ass where it needs to be kicked. He has the values of the real American at heart- 59 million Americans proved that he does.

I am a Catholic, and the militant attitudes of some of my fellow Christians disturb me greatly.

Yea, I totally agree. Sometimes I just can't cope, I just can't take it all, and I kind of feel like slipping, and becoming like all the people I despise. I hope I have the strength to hold on to my beliefs.

I feel your pain Iivanra. Australia too is leaning toward the Christian Right more and more and it frightens me.

It's very irresponsible to have sex and wake, and say "Woops, I had unprotected sex, and I didn't want a child. I guess I'll have to have an abortion." Damn.
Is RU486 available in the States? It isn't yet here... But it has the potential to greatly reduce the number of abortions that occur due to unprotected sex. It prevents the zygote from implanting and is nearly 100% successful.

That said, I think unprotected sex isn't one of the main causes of abortions. I'm thinkingfailed birth control. But anyway, this isn't an abortion thread, so we'll move right along.

I'm totally with you on all of those things...well, I don't have a vagina, but you know what I mean. I live in a heavily conservative (fundamentalist and ignorant) area, and I feel like I should duck and cover anytime I'm in a room where any of these topics are being mentioned. Don't worry, pretty soon we can live on the moon; and ruin another perfectly innocent place with crude ideology! America...our Bill of Rights is to civil liberties what Lowfat Sugar-Free Sherbert is to ice cream! :p

Christians tell me I'm going to hell, they don't understand: America is going to hell.

A heartbeat can be heard at 21 days after conception...A hearbeat isn't life? I agree with you...you should have the right to choose wether you want children or not...but I think you should make that decision before you open your legs. Damn, there's so many forms of brith control that you shouldn't need abortion. It's very irresponsible to have sex and wake, and say "Woops, I had unprotected sex, and I didn't want a child. I guess I'll have to have an abortion." Damn.

Regardless of whether or not abortion is considered immoral, it will be done anyway. You can argue all you want where the human life begins, but I know I'd rather see a safe, sterile abortion in a hospital under the eye of a trained doctor than one done in an alley with a coat hanger by some crack addict. An aunt of a friend jumped down a stairway in an attempt to miscarry her unwanted child. Whether it is legal or illegal, it will be done, and if illegal, in crude and often fatal ways. I don't find the death of an embryo more tragic than one of a grown woman with family, friends and a life.

Also, about the gay marriage, why? Why should we break a sacred union that was intended for man and woman? I'm not against giving homsexuals their rights and such...they deserve it. Why not give them their own union?

Marriage is not a 'sacred union'. In a country where someone can get divorced and remarry as many times as they like, marry someone twenty years their junior, marry someone just because they knocked them up or get married and divorced within a day, there is no 'sacred union'. Discriminating against gays because of their sexual orientation is disgusting and I won't stand for it. They deserve the same rights as every heterosexual couple.

I backed Bush because he's the better candidate. He's straightfoward, not weak and wobbly like Kerry. Bush isn't afraid to kick ass where it needs to be kicked. He has the values of the real American at heart- 59 million Americans proved that he does.

I am through ranting about politics, but I will say this: save for fifty percent of America, the entire world hates Bush. His decision to attack Iraq was rash and sloppily handled while the man who was responcible for terrorising us walks free. People -- innocent people, civilians and children, are dying over there. Some barely tolerate us and most hate us. We are on poorer terms with our enemies and allies than ever.

Ours has become a nation of greed, violence and sex. The ignorance and stupidity of my peers terrifies me. I honestly fear for my generation.

What's so bad about sex? The US is really quite hostile toward sex.

Who wants to start a new country where people we don't like can't come? That's like... my dream. And everyone would be happy. And I wouldn't have to deal with 6 foot tall 8th graders chanting "KERRY'S A FAIRY!"

Yeah it sucks a bit, but luckily I live in a very ungodly place (Manhattan) but I guess it is probably worse for nonbelievers in Jesusworld-- my term for everywhere between here and San Francisco. Just do whatever you want, have lots of sinful fun and keep mocking people's beliefs and maybe they will realize that religion is just mass insanity. Sorry about your right to chose, that is so out the window in like 4 and a half minutes. Damn you Antonin Scalia!

Sex really is overdone when I can't walk down the street, look in a magasine or turn on the television without hearing something lewd or seeing scantily clad wo/men frolick about for the pleasure of wo/men. What the hell ever happened to self-respect, modesty and discrepacy, anyway?

Yeah it sucks a bit, but luckily I live in a very ungodly place (Manhattan) but I guess it is probably worse for nonbelievers in Jesusworld-- my term for everywhere between here and San Francisco.
Yes, "Jesusworld" is near unbearable at times.

Sex really is overdone when I can't walk down the street, look in a magasine or turn on the television without hearing something lewd or seeing scantily clad wo/men frolick about for the pleasure of wo/men. What the hell ever happened to self-respect, modesty and discrepacy, anyway?

It's much "worse" in Europe.

Just in case any of us forget, more people have been killed in the name of "religion" than for any other reason in the history of mankind.
No matter if you consider yourself Christian, jewish, Islamic, or any major religion on this planet does it tell you in you good book to go out and kill or belittle someone who doesn't share your ideals.
As far as I'm concerned, religion belongs in the home, not listening to someone else preach to you. Have your own beliefs and just go out and try to be kind to others.

Just in case any of us forget, more people have been killed in the name of "religion" than for any other reason in the history of mankind.

Really? Not that I disagree with the point you were making, aren't "power" and "wealth" big reasons for killing? Julius Caesar wasn't very religious, nor was Stalin. Hitler's hatred for Jews was partly based on their economic well-being, and gang shootings and robberies have very little to do with faith. Is religion really to blame, or is it just a fun scrapegoat?

Really? Not that I disagree with the point you were making, aren't "power" and "wealth" big reasons for killing? Julius Caesar wasn't very religious, nor was Stalin. Hitler's hatred for Jews was partly based on their economic well-being, and gang shootings and robberies have very little to do with faith. Is religion really to blame, or is it just a fun scrapegoat?

Can we then agree that religion is much to suspectible to being twisted for political reason?

Honestly, there's just too many bugs in the system. When's Religion 2.0 comming out? No joke, this version is just rediculous.

Can we then agree that religion is much to suspectible to being twisted for political reason?

Honestly, there's just too many bugs in the system. When's Religion 2.0 comming out? No joke, this version is just rediculous.I'd be in favor of completely uninstalling religion from the system. More intolerance and other problems spring from the 'love of the almighty' than I particularly care for.

Honestly, there's just too many bugs in the system. When's Religion 2.0 comming out? No joke, this version is just rediculous.


Sorry Goed. but Religion 2.0 is'nt going to be released anytime in the near future. It was almost as bad as Religion 1.5, which we all know was just riddeled with bugs. Unfortunaly 2.0 is still full of holes that can't be patched and is very much still up to interpitation.

If you think it's bad in America... where I live, (Hastings, east sussex, UK) you can't even walk down a street without somone hurling a random insult at me...

The other week a broke a guys nose because he called me "Neo" when I was walking down the road in my trenchcoat. I had been enduring this for weeks from everyone. I had tried to tolerate it... BUT, I was wearing my coat because I liked it. I was not trying to be that bloody character from that crappy film. So this guy broke my temper... which is very short. I smashed him in the face in front of all his friends, breaking his nose and he wimpered like a little girl. I then called on his friends to try somthing, and they just ran.

Just goes to show, most of them are mouthy bastards, and I showed them a thing or two. And I don't even like to use violence unless I have to. But i think that was an explosion of years of bottled up anger. I've felt better ever since.

Sorry Goed. but Religion 2.0 is'nt going to be released anytime in the near future. It was almost as bad as Religion 1.5, which we all know was just riddeled with bugs. Unfortunaly 2.0 is still full of holes that can't be patched and is very much still up to interpitation.

I'm sure you can get the Religion 2.0 service pack, and the Norton heresey scanner 2005.

II. I am not a Christian, I do not adhere to the moral laws of Christianity, and laws governing me should not reflect upon those laws. If my son is a homosexual and he wishes to marry his lover, he should have the right as an American to do so. Religion should have no influence upon that law. Love has no gender.

We homosexuals of the USA need more people like you. Thanks.

If you think it's bad in America... where I live, (Hastings, east sussex, UK) you can't even walk down a street without somone hurling a random insult at me...


You have to admit though, there isn't much of the Religon inspired 'moral' majority here. It's a very secular nation we live in (not neceserrily a bad thing by any means). Most people have the sense to keep religon personal and not to try and impose it on others. most.. Although the Far right is still on the rise.. :rolleyes:

I'm sure you can get the Religion 2.0 service pack, and the Norton heresey scanner 2005.

Careful....it crashed my system....

Careful....it crashed my system....

Nah-you need the Religion 2.0 Bible player-allows you to access any page of the bible you want.

You have to admit though, there isn't much of the Religon inspired 'moral' majority here. It's a very secular nation we live in (not neceserrily a bad thing by any means). Most people have the sense to keep religon personal and not to try and impose it on others. most.. Although the Far right is still on the rise.. :rolleyes:

A lot of the UK is aithiest nowadays, even though I'm agnostic.

I just wanted to say Iivanra that your words were very encouraging. I live in Adelaide, Australia, and like America, we recently re-elected a conservative government.

It is very scary how the world is developing- we are having exactly the same debates in Australia at the moment about abortion and gay rights, and as a gay guy, the world is looking pretty shitty!

Why can't people be tolerant, compassionate, understanding and respectful of other people, their beliefs, religions, morals, ethics and ways of life. I don't agree with what the Christian right say, but I respect them for their opinions and i wish that they would have to courtesy to respect my way of life and not interfere with who I naturally am.

I needed to vent as well, so thank you!

Why can't people be tolerant, compassionate, understanding and respectful of other people, their beliefs, religions, morals, ethics and ways of life.That's just the 'love thy neighbor' part of religion. They'll get over any differences they might have with you as soon as you conform to what they believe in.

Okey-dokey - I can't speak for everyone, just myself, but here goes.

I'm a Christian with rather conservative views in America. I would like to say something as kindly and humbly as possible:

Religion - I believe especially Christianity - has been the justification for innumerable awful things. So many tragedies and travesties have been commited in the name of God and I truly believe that what happened was wrong. However, I would like to point out that those travesties occurred because religion was twisted. In the Bible, we are not told to 'go forth and shoot the unbelievers.' We are told to be like Christ, who actually stopped violence when his disciples fought for him in the garden of Gethsemane, who loved his fellow and did not discriminate against them (there are many parables of his teaching and eating with so-called 'undesirables), who showed compassion and mercy on people who society traditionally shunned (lepers, blind people, lame people, crazy people, etc.). As Christians, we are supposed to serve others and to show them love and kindness not discriminate, alienate, antagonize, oppress, force into believing, accuse, slander, kill, torture, or whatever awful things have been done, against anybody.

You guys are really sh*ting on yourselves
you say that gays and athests need more respect
how bout trying to respect us too
I know so many atheists who are a bunch of *sses and say there is nothing wrong because there is no wrong or right
Religions have always been the foundations for civil codes and laws
so who about leaving us alone and we will stay out of what god hasn't commanded us to do

What's so bad about sex? The US is really quite hostile toward sex.

There's one perfectly good reason to be careful with sex. Those who are sexually careless become careless parents. Having said that, I must note that sexual repression always backfires.

However, I would like to point out that those travesties occurred because religion was twisted.

Most religions with some kind of holy scripture can't help but be twisted, the number of times they've been altered to suit a monarch's own beliefs. I often reflect that surely if there is a god who created us all, wouldn't our own morals tell us what it is right to do? And yet I am constantly amazed that some people seem to feel morally obliged to hate people and make life difficult for them. Having said that, I like most people.

im a athiest myself and im allways getin bs of christians cuz i dont belive

I often reflect that surely if there is a god who created us all, wouldn't our own morals tell us what it is right to do? And yet I am constantly amazed that some people seem to feel morally obliged to hate people and make life difficult for them. Having said that, I like most people.

That's a good point. However, do people always obey what their conscience says to do? I myself tend not to, which is a failing indeed. Some people go for the path of least resistance or whatever will make people like them, etc. I would venture to say that people who feel morally obliged to hate people cannot be obeying what their conscience is telling them. Then again, I've never understood how people can act maliciously or violently towards another person and not feel even a twinge of remorse. The badness of people in general is a horrific thing.

That being said, I'd like to add that I have a good many friends who are all wonderful people and only a few of them are Christians and straight. I love them all and I could never hurt them without feeling guilty.

Christians tell me I'm going to hell, they don't understand: America is going to hell.The thing is, if going to hell is defined as; "Going somewhere devoid of the idiots who keep telling us we're going to hell if we don't do everything exactly the way they say we have to," then it's a good thing...

I grew up in some fairly pious parts of Virginia and have been told more than once that I'm going to hell for my agnostic tendency's. It seams that most people in my position respond to that in anger. I however recognize that it's part of who they are and what they believe. They are doing this out of concern for me. I tell them that I appreciate the effort and that they're welcome to keep trying to save me. In that process I've made friends with many Christians and *gasp* have come to an understanding with them. Not to mention that I've even gotten a few to view God in more obtuse ways than your average Christian.

You should become the type of Atheist who views the word “God” as incoherent babbling. So the sentence “I believe in God” would translate as “I believe in Blorg blerp blaba laba bing pong.” Or something like that. Incoherent babbling is so hard to translate. :(

If you think it's bad in America... where I live, (Hastings, east sussex, UK) you can't even walk down a street without somone hurling a random insult at me...

The other week a broke a guys nose because he called me "Neo" when I was walking down the road in my trenchcoat. I had been enduring this for weeks from everyone. I had tried to tolerate it... BUT, I was wearing my coat because I liked it. I was not trying to be that bloody character from that crappy film. So this guy broke my temper... which is very short. I smashed him in the face in front of all his friends, breaking his nose and he wimpered like a little girl. I then called on his friends to try somthing, and they just ran.

Just goes to show, most of them are mouthy bastards, and I showed them a thing or two. And I don't even like to use violence unless I have to. But i think that was an explosion of years of bottled up anger. I've felt better ever since.

Punching someone because they called you a name seems rather...uncivilized. Then again, I am a godless heathen, so what do I know of morality?

Anyway, whenever someone is a mouthy bastard to me, I generally return the favor, usually better than the original giver. It's so much better for the (possible) soul to outwit someone than to punch them when they were not being violent themselves.

You guys are really sh*ting on yourselves
you say that gays and athests need more respect
how bout trying to respect us too
I know so many atheists who are a bunch of *sses and say there is nothing wrong because there is no wrong or right
Religions have always been the foundations for civil codes and laws
so who about leaving us alone and we will stay out of what god hasn't commanded us to do


Sense no one responded I will

And my response is simple
“Religions have always been the foundations for civil codes and laws
so who about leaving us alone and we will stay out of what god hasn't commanded us to do”

And look at what a horrible job you have done with those laws and civial codes :) thank you for showing me who is at fault


Now really any good that religion has done for humanity it has caused so much more bad … we need to skip to religion 3.0, (2.0 stable)

Sense no one responded I will

And my response is simple
“Religions have always been the foundations for civil codes and laws
so who about leaving us alone and we will stay out of what god hasn't commanded us to do”

And look at what a horrible job you have done with those laws and civial codes :) thank you for showing me who is at fault


Now really any good that religion has done for humanity it has caused so much more bad … we need to skip to religion 3.0, (2.0 stable)It isn't religion that's causing problems - it's religious fanaticism.

I. In America, you are apparently allowed to follow whatever religion you wish. Yet I find myself being dogged by Christians because I am an atheist. Snide remarks such as 'I sure do hope you get saved, moron,' and more grave ones such as 'God loves you anyway.' The religious who seem to believe that everyone who doesn't think the way they think is wrong make me sick. What about the Jewish? The Buddists? The Muslims? Are they all wrong, too?

II. I am not a Christian, I do not adhere to the moral laws of Christianity, and laws governing me should not reflect upon those laws. If my son is a homosexual and he wishes to marry his lover, he should have the right as an American to do so. Religion should have no influence upon that law. Love has no gender.

III. Nor should religion influence the views of abortion. Unless it actually is a developed fetus, a wad of undeveloped cells is a wad of undeveloped cells. It makes me sick to think someone can put laws and restrictions on my uterus, vagina and ovaries. It is my body and I will do damn well as I please with it.

IV. Integrity and compassion seem to be dead. I wander the halls at school or the streets in my neighbourhood and from all around me I receive hostility. Someone committed suicide because her parents threatened to divorce, I hear 'What a dipshit.' I owned up for a wrongdoing of mine to prevent a large group of people from suffering the consequences and I see other people pointing fingers every day, blaming their own actions on others for their own sake. When I ask my peers why they support Bush and not Kerry, they muster up, 'because Kerry's a fag!!' and 'because Bush doesn't look like a dog!!!1'.

Ours has become a nation of greed, violence and sex. The ignorance and stupidity of my peers terrifies me. I honestly fear for my generation.

There. I feel slightly better.

I. I feel similarly when I tell people that I'm a Catholic and they say "I'm sorry!". Understand that people, as a rule, are basically cruel. The only difference is that in society, we really don't have a recess at 2 o'clock to get into fist fights in the schoolyard.

II. I agree, so long as they are specifically called CIVIL UNIONS. Same rights, same responsibilities, just not the "M word". Had the tack gone that way, I doubt that 11 states would have voted against it. Marriage has a special cultural denotation in the world. As it is, the religious/cultural conservatives feel engulfed in metrosexualism, incomprehesible music and a Hollywood that is obviously biased against them. I doubt any of these trends will change, even over the next decade or four. It is unfortunate that in pressing for a recategorization of the "M word" that the gay community lost a lot of goodwill in the political arena.

III. That's the price you pay for living by the rule of the majority. The basis of rights in America is that your rights are sacrosanct so long as they do not infringe upon the rights of another. Thus the cunundrum with abortion.
BTW, I won't tell you how I side on this issue, but I trust you can at least see the other side's point of view?

IV. Stupidity is not a special province of any one side, and rudeness is ubiquitous. Do as I do: try to fight against both. :)

It isn't religion that's causing problems - it's religious fanaticism.

It’s the mixed messages portrayed by most religious text that allow it to be twisted.

I agree it is the people but it has been used as a tool by them WAY to often.

It’s the mixed messages portrayed by most religious text that allow it to be twisted.

I agree it is the people but it has been used as a tool by them WAY to often.The solution, I think, is world-wide education. NOT education in facts, dates, figures, etc., but education that leads to development of clear and logical thinkers. Because I see the problem as too many people relying on others to think for them, and it's those "others" that you cite as using their particular "brand" of religion to cause problems/wars/etc.

Now, I don't mean that as a negative remark about those I say are relying on others to think for them. They are doing what they really think is right. Somehow we have to create a world-wide society/culture/atmosphere where knowledge is readily available and individual critical thinking is encouraged.

The solution, I think, is world-wide education. NOT education in facts, dates, figures, etc., but education that leads to development of clear and logical thinkers. Because I see the problem as too many people relying on others to think for them, and it's those "others" that you cite as using their particular "brand" of religion to cause problems/wars/etc.

I agree critical thinking should be a mandatory class at high schools jr highs collage EVERYWHERE we can get the message out

Teaching kids tools to analyze their surroundings and their interactions with people. And to think logically about it all is the best thing we could do for them

Thinking logically a bout a given problem is the best way to solve it …

(I wouldn’t mind a philosophy class or two thrown in there … especially if it covers argument analysis)

Sorry I was actually thinking about this today :)

I agree critical thinking should be a mandatory class at high schools jr highs collage EVERYWHERE we can get the message out

Teaching kids tools to analyze their surroundings and their interactions with people. And to think logically about it all is the best thing we could do for them

Thinking logically a bout a given problem is the best way to solve it …

(I wouldn’t mind a philosophy class or two thrown in there … especially if it covers argument analysis)

Sorry I was actually thinking about this today :)

Sounds like Civics to me! Ironic that this course was dropped pretty much nationwide in the 70s and 80s.

Sounds like Civics to me! Ironic that this course was dropped pretty much nationwide in the 70s and 80s.


I took civics ... but it mostly covered national events and governmental setup. (laws amendments and such)

I was thinking more broad low level LOGIC :)

I took civics ... but it mostly covered national events and governmental setup. (laws amendments and such)

I was thinking more broad low level LOGIC :)

Mine was more social justice and the function of the individual in society. We touched on governmental models and such, but national events was relegated to history class.