NationStates Jolt Archive

I don't necessarily agree with all that's covered in this poem. I'm presenting it here as an interesting viewpoint which is held by a considerable number of Americans. No, I don't know who wrote it.


A French Poem written by an American

Eleven thousand soldiers
lay beneath the dirt and stone,
all buried on a distant land
so far away from home.

For just a strip of dismal beach
they paid a hero's price,
to save a foreign nation
They all made the sacrifice.

And now the shores of Normandy
Are lined with blocks of white:
Americans who didn't turn
from someone else's plight.

Eleven thousand reasons
for the French to take our side,
but in the moment of our need,
they chose to run and hide.

Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.

Without a soldier worth a damn
to be found within the region,
the French became the only land
to need a Foreign Legion.

You French all say we're arrogant.
Well hell, we've earned the right--
We saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.

But now you've made a big mistake,
and one that you'll regret;
you took sides with our enemies,
and that we won't forget.

It wasn't just our citizens
you spit on when you turned,
but every one of yours
who fell the day the towers burned.

You spit upon our soldiers,
on our pilots and Marines,
and now you'll get a little sense
of just what payback means.

So keep your Paris fashions
and your wine and your champagne,
and find some other market
that will buy your airplanes.

And try to find somebody else
to wear your French cologne,
for you're about to find out
what it means to stand alone.

You see, you need us far more
than we ever needed you.
America has better friends
who know how to be true.

I'd rather stand with warriors
who have the will and might,
than huddle in the dark
with those whose only flag is white.

I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
the Israelis and the rest,
for when it comes to valor
we have seen that they're the best.

We'll count on one another
as we face a moment dire,
while you sit on the sideline
with a sign, "friendship for hire."

We'll win this war without you
and we'll total up the cost,
and take it from your foreign aid,
and then you'll feel the loss.

And when your nation starts to fall,
well Frenchie, you can spare us,
just call the Germans for a hand,
they know the way to Paris.

Whoa. That's harsh. Pretty powerful stuff.

That's poem is called... mmmm francophobia, right?

Or is it called plain ignorance? Im confused.

I like it, and agree with it. The only time the French helped us was in our Revolutionary war. And we repaid them 20 times over in WWI and 20 times over again in WWII.

I like it, and agree with it. The only time the French helped us was in our Revolutionary war. And we repaid them 20 times over in WWI and 20 times over again in WWII.

Hmm morons like you try to see history desparatly true FOX glases, pitty that you are so ignorant about history.
But that must come due to the lack of good food and a Mc Crap diet.

Hmm you guys better come over to my nice gite, I learn you how to climb and ski here at La Grave (http://www.la-grave.com/english/meije.php).

In the evening you will drink great regional wines or contemplate about life and the greatness of the mountains or the historty of the Cathars in Southern France with a glass of true greatness in your hands: Guigal Cote Rotie, Bourgundy of Leroy or a Angélus, Sociando Mallet or a non US known treasure like the Prince Probus of Clos Tr. in Cahors. But last bottle sare only for real nice friends since it is not anymore possible to sell them to our public, so, you'll drink them for free if when you are a enleightent wine lover or a friend of mine :) .

When you'll go to bed, tired but happy,you'll understand why that crazy Flemish Belgian left his country and became a ENSA mountainguide and skiteacher instead of staying before his history class.

When you'll leave us, you'll never be such a anti EU (France in special) rascist again and will browse the internet for my recepe of "Poulet au Vin Jaune au Morilles".

All American guests leave us like that and will never vote Bush or fascist again.

No one ever thanks the Russians for making 80% of all German casualties in WW2..

And you call the French cowards? One out of 25 French died in WW1. That would mount a war in which approx. 12 million Americans died. I'd like to see the NeoCons braveness in charging a good old german machine gun nest in ww1.

I bet Chirac is regretted from being the first Statesman IN THE WORLD to express is sorrow for 9/11, and for being the first foreign leader to visit the WTC ruins.
I bet the French are damn sad from proclaiming "today I am an American" in the days after 9/11. I am, and im not even French.

And in case you didn't knew, your country went over to Iraq over a lie, over deceit. And im not even going to judge the legallity of the war.

You are saying that if a friend of you asks you to go commit a crime, and if you don't go, you are a coward? Nice thinking!

Hell, you bring your war dead? I bet they are all very sad to see that their childreen go to war over lies, that your country needs to bully others to call itself a leader, very proud.

Seriously, I don't get all this French-bashing stuff. Why is the U.S focusing so much on France? Canada didn't support you either, and beyond the occasional snipe, you've kept pretty quiet about us. Countries have the right to make their own decisions, not based on the bullying of others. As well, you seemed willing to go ahead and invade despite the UN, so why should you expect others to support your unilateral move? If you really wanted to be backed up, you could have made a better case (based on facts, instead of hysteria) and gotten that help. If the war was justified. The lack of international support here seems to show that the majority of nations DID NOT consider this war to be justified. Unlike WWII, which you seem to love dredging up. To hear the U.S tell it, you won the war for everyone, so I don't see the problem with you going ahead and doing it again on your own! That whole, "we saved you, so help us" mentality needs to extend a little further back in history perhaps...have you forgotten that one of the major reasons America exists is because of the ideas behind the French Revolution? Or the help you got from the French during your fight for Independence? Why is this seen as such an act of betrayal? I didn't think that the U.S was all that close to France before the invasion of Iraq...yet you're acting like a jilted lover! Please explain!

Hmm morons like you try to see history desparatly true FOX glases, pitty that you are so ignorant about history.
But that must come due to the lack of good food and a Mc Crap diet.

I am ignorant about history?? Then please tell me why I am in the 11th grade and in a college credit history class?

When Germany (or Canada) invades the US and the French fail to come to our desperate need, this poem will be relevant.

No one ever thanks the Russians for making 80% of all German casualties in WW2..
Thats a good point dude, maybe people are a bit wary of praising the Soviet Unions war effort because of their occupation of Eastern Europe after the war?
Without the US Western Europe may very well have been "liberated" by the Soviet Union rather than Western Allies. No matter what antiamerican sentiments may be expressed nowadays I imagine Western Europe is glad that didnt happen...

. Why is the U.S focusing so much on France?

Because the French said that no matter what resolution we tried to pass on Iraq that had to do with force, they would veto it. Also because if it werent for us and England they would be speaking German.

Who would compare the plight of France being under Nazi control to whatever our plight was in Iraq?

Can somebody remind me what our plight was? And why we needed any help in doing this?

I am ignorant about history?? Then please tell me why I am in the 11th grade and in a college credit history class?

Don't know your primary school grades but must at least be less the my masters in history (I am a medievist) in a decent university at Brussels.

my motto is "Scientia vincere tenebras" and oh boy (kiddo) when I see your nonsense here then let me tell you that you still aren't an allumni and never will. :rolleyes:

Haha. That poem was pretty funny, especially this line:


Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.


Of course, I don't really agree with all or most of it, like I don't agree with a lot of the Bush bashing sites (such as 'You Forgot Poland!') But still, it's pretty funny.

This is a bit on the harsh side, but don't start a heated argument and revel in its...funny-ness. Right.

Seems like the Americans need a Russian to inform them of some stuff....

No American knows the feeling of having your country taken over by others. The only time that was happening was in the war of 1812, which was started with a highly pathetic campaign against Canada by you lot, so it's your own fault. The French, British, and other Europeans know what it feels like, having been through myriads of wars. As such, they have something you lot don't- sympathy for the conquered.

Point two- Some how, people in America didn't realize that for every insurgent they kill, the medrassas will create two more. That, and the fact that Iraq was obviously a minor target, especially when taken next to a state like Saudi Arabia (most of the folks behind the 9/11 bombings were from there) or Iran (they have a much higher nuclear capability) also helped them make the decision. Oh, and don't forget the fact that Afghanistan, which Bush says has been "liberated", still has a strong presence of "the enemy" and needs to be reconstructed more than the South after the American Civil War.

Another point to be taken into consideration is that America's credibility in "liberation wars" is ver-ry doubtful. Take a look at wars such as Vietnam, East Timor, and the many South American skirmishes and you'll see what I mean.

So, to recount- Europe (public opinion in Poland is starting to turn against the war) thinks the war is stupid, misguided, unecessary, and being lead by a warlord who commands a country with a doubtful reputation. Any questions?

Here's another one:

France is a nut
it has a rubber butt
everytime it turns around
it goes putt putt

:)

Because the French said that no matter what resolution we tried to pass on Iraq that had to do with force, they would veto it. Also because if it werent for us and England they would be speaking German.

If it weren't for the French we would having tea and crumpets and pledging allegiance to the Queen.

Alliances go both ways, and are meant for mutual defense. If you can explain how France could have helped us defend ourselves when we were waging a war across the globe from our own soil please explain.

Shouldn't the title have been A "freedom" poem written by an american? :p

It's written well but I don't like the message.

The EU and the US should not be getting into serious pissing matches.

Not good for each others economy, espeically when considering the up and coming Asian economy.

Thats a good point dude, maybe people are a bit wary of praising the Soviet Unions war effort because of their occupation of Eastern Europe after the war?
Without the US Western Europe may very well have been "liberated" by the Soviet Union rather than Western Allies. No matter what antiamerican sentiments may be expressed nowadays I imagine Western Europe is glad that didnt happen...

True, but it vexes me greatly that Americans have no respect over the sacrifices of all the other nations.



Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.

WW1. Somme, Verdun, anyone? French Maquis, anyone? The Gestapo loved to torture these guys! And hell, is it my impression or didnt France fought in the first gulf war? WOA, THEY LOST?

Don't know your primary school grades but must at least be less the my masters in history (I am a medievist) in a decent university at Brussels.

my motto is "Scientia vincere tenebras" and oh boy (kiddo) when I see your nonsense here then let me tell you that you still aren't an allumni and never will. :rolleyes:

Your masters is higher than my one college credit in American History, but I think you will agree with me when I say that the French helped us out in our Revolution? And then many more times the amount of French troops that died in our revolution, that were American and died in WWI. And I also think you will agree with me when I say that even more than that died liberating France for the SECOND time.

Also because if it werent for us and England they would be speaking German.

Did you contribute to the WW2 effort? If so, then ok, you can say the French might owe you something. But if not, it isn't you they owe, it's your forebears. I'm British, and yes, had British people not fought the Nazis the French would have suffered more. But that doesn't mean that the French owe ME, nor do they owe Blair, or Bush, or Cheney or Wolfowitz or any of the other architects of the war on Iraq - in the same way that we cannot ascribe guilt for the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany to Chancellor Schroeder or other younger Germans not involved in WW2.

I did a line by line rebuttle of this piece with lot's 'o curse words...
---------
Eleven thousand soldiers
lay beneath the dirt and stone,
all buried on a distant land
so far away from home.

For just a strip of dismal beach
they paid a hero's price,
to save a foreign nation
they all made the sacrifice.
---------
All well and good. Lets not forget the Australians and French who died to keep US territories free.
---------
And now the shores of Normandy
are lined with blocks of white:
Americans who didn't turn
from someone else's plight.
---------
Sorry? Can you say revisionist history? We were (and would have stayed) neutral for the entire war up until Hitler declared war on us (one of his many stupid mistakes). We rode to the rescue of no one. We ignored the plight of the French people and that of the Jewish people in Europe with a callous disregard.
---------
Eleven thousand reasons
for the French to take our side,
but in the moment of our need,
they chose to run and hide.
---------
Moment of Need? What the hell is he talking about? The Iraq war wasn't a moment of need, and it turns out in the end that the French were right. (No stockpiles of WMD, Iraq wasn’t a threat, inspections were working ect)
---------
Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.
---------
Bullshit. A 'major of the United States Marine Corps' should know better then this. Take a look at the Battles of WWI and WWII (more the former then the latter, and late WWII). Take a look at the Suez Canal Incidents between France, GB and Egypt. Lost every battle? Hardly.
---------
Without a soldier worth a damn
to be found within the region,
the French became the only land
to need a Foreign Legion.
---------
Wrong again, the British had Indian troops fighting along side Regular British troops during WWI, and would have again in WWII if they weren't fighting against the Japanese in the Asian Front of the war. The Foreign Legion was a great group of troops, some of the finest in the world, and the name itself is slightly misleading, because they were drawn from the colonies of France. It is no different then the modern day US Army, which draws some of its troops from colonies of the United States
---------
You French all say we're arrogant
Well hell, we've earned the right--
We saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.
---------
Sorry? This makes no sense and shows a complete lack of knowledge about the Second and First world wars. In the second, no army in the world could have stopped Hitler in 1939-40, the United States included. We had no army to speak of at that time. 600,000 (Military) 270,000 (Civilian) deaths in France. Far more then the United States took. Now, to WWI, it is common knowledge that the United States entered the war far to late to even make an effective contribution to the war on a stratigical level. We didn't save France then, France and England saved France then. If you say that they didn't want to fight...France: 1,365,735 (Dead, roughly 1/7th of all killed by the war) 4,266,000 (Wounded) 477,800 (Captured) as opposed to the United States: 116,608 (Dead) 204,002 (Wounded). An absolutely silly statement.
---------
But now you've made a big mistake,
and one that you'll regret;
you took sides with our enemies,
and that we won't forget.

It wasn't just our citizens
you spit on when you turned,
but every one of yours who fell
the day the towers burned.
---------

Sorry? Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. The President said that. If you mean the original war on terror…sorry, they supported that. (http://nato.usmission.gov/Contributions/France.htm)
---------
You spit upon our soldiers,
on our pilots and Marines,
and now you'll get a little sense
of just what payback means.

So keep your Paris fashions
and your wine and your champagne,
and find some other market
that will buy your aeroplanes.

And try to find somebody else
to wear our French cologne,
for you're about to find out
what it means to stand alone.

You see, you need us far more
than we ever needed you.
America has better friends
who know how to be true.
---------
Ohh, a fucking boycott. Get in reality moron, won’t happen. They did nothing of the sort, save your pathetic francophobia for a country that deserves it. Compete or lose. That is capitalism. Also, if you took your head out of your ass for five seconds, you'd realize that the French people != the French Government. You are hurting the people because of the Government, which makes about as much sense as calling a preemptive war justifi...oops.
---------
I'd rather stand with warriors
who have the will and might,
than huddle in the dark with those
whose only flag is white.
---------
Snide and unsupported argument. The French are very good fighters, and rarely ever surrender. Everyone got caught off guard by the Nazi’s in WWII.
---------
I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
the Israelis and the rest,
for when it comes to valor
we have seen that they're the best.
---------
No, wrong again. The British are a third rate power, the Aussies are worse, and the Israelies are only strong because we prop them up.
---------
We'll count on one another
as we face a moment dire,
while you sit on the sideline
with a sign, "friendship for hire".
---------

Brilliant. This has what to do with the Iraq war?
---------
We'll win this war without you
and we'll total up the cost,
and take it from your foreign aid,
and then you'll feel the loss.
---------
Win what war? (By the way, the French get no foreign aid from us.)
---------
And when your nation starts to fall,
well Frenchie, you can spare us,
just call the Germans for a hand,
they know the way to Paris.
---------
No, as you would be obliged to help under the NATO pact, but that is irrelevant. Why don’t you say something like “Ask the Russians the way to Berlin” or “Ask the British the way to the United States Capital”. Stupid, irrelevant comment.
---------
Don Fichthorn, Major USMC (Retired)
---------
Fuck you. Ignorant twit made me waste 15 minutes of my time...




In fact, I doubt a Major wrote this.

No one ever thanks the Russians for making 80% of all German casualties in WW2..


I do...thank them and know that thanks to their efort in wich they destructed & binded about 78% of the German troops at the eastern front. Just like I thank the US for the lend lease help that helped the Russians in the early stage on the eastern front and just like I thank the allies of letting the war being fought by the Russians and hop in at last to save a little free part of EU as a trade partner and futur recovered free EU of the 15..

What you say about Russia is factual truth but some CRWN won't agree on it because they see history true an agenda and try to put as many lies or exagerations as possible in it.
Some people denie history, some rewrite it both tendencies can be found on NS. Another form of history revisionism is the classiscal overkill when it comes to one of the allies, the US.

Some CRWN's opinion about her role is way exagerated.
But lucky enough those farmpeople are just a minority and not taken serious amongst regular Western sources (weather they are UK, EU or US), just like hollocaustdeniers are not taken serious, people like Grays Hill or Etrusca deserve a compasionate smile and help (regarding their hate posts), but don't take them to seriously in a debate. ;)

If it weren't for the French we would having tea and crumpets and pledging allegiance to the Queen.

Alliances go both ways, and are meant for mutual defense. If you can explain how France could have helped us defend ourselves when we were waging a war across the globe from our own soil please explain.

I have already credited the French with bailing us out of the Revolutionary war, but we repaid them many many times over in both the world wars.

We are waging a war in Iraq, not from our own soil. Funny how the Aussies stuck to their alliance, and they are farther away from Iraq than the French are. And then there is Poland, who we bailed out, and they rreturned the favor by sending in troops to Iraq. The fact of the matter is, that if France wouldnt have had so much of an opposition to this war, then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Because the French said that no matter what resolution we tried to pass on Iraq that had to do with force, they would veto it. Also because if it werent for us and England they would be speaking German.

This is my whole point...SO WHAT!!?? They didn't support you invading another country. You are trying to compare that to your support of France during the second world war. The two are completely different. France itself had been invaded and needed help to regain its sovereignty. Do you really believe that France would not help you if the U.S was invaded? Of course they would! So would Canada, even though we hate you ;) . If France wanted you to help it invade Algeria to make up for past troubles they've had with that nation, would you do it? Face the fact that the invasion of Iraq was a grudge match more than a necessity. You shouldn't be supported in your vendettas, nor should a nation's army be used as cannon fodder just because you hate Saddam Hussein. I hate Barbara Streisand, but I'm not asking Paul Martin to call out the troops!

True, but it vexes me greatly that Americans have no respect over the sacrifices of all the other nations.

You should have said some Americans.

Todays "younguns" think WW2 is ancient history. Many barely know anything about it.

Many of us know the history and respect the contributions.

Finally, your very argument can be said about some of the youth of the EU.

I have heard endless claims that the US really didn't do anything in the war.

Your masters is higher than my one college credit in American History, but I think you will agree with me when I say that the French helped us out in our Revolution? And then many more times the amount of French troops that died in our revolution, that were American and died in WWI. And I also think you will agree with me when I say that even more than that died liberating France for the SECOND time.

Yep but I see the US involvemend as way much more important in WWII (lend lease, war on two fronts..) then it was when great Wilson sended his troops, WWI was decided by Kaiserslacht, after it, Germany could not win anymore against France and the UK (and Belgium).

I have already credited the French with bailing us out of the Revolutionary war, but we repaid them many many times over in both the world wars.

We are waging a war in Iraq, not from our own soil. Funny how the Aussies stuck to their alliance, and they are farther away from Iraq than the French are. And then there is Poland, who we bailed out, and they rreturned the favor by sending in troops to Iraq. The fact of the matter is, that if France wouldnt have had so much of an opposition to this war, then we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Actually, this piece is referring to the WTC attacks (2001), not the Iraq war. I've seen this before, and I've had this discussion before.

This is my whole point...SO WHAT!!?? They didn't support you invading another country. You are trying to compare that to your support of France during the second world war. The two are completely different. France itself had been invaded and needed help to regain its sovereignty. Do you really believe that France would not help you if the U.S was invaded? Of course they would! So would Canada, even though we hate you ;) . If France wanted you to help it invade Algeria to make up for past troubles they've had with that nation, would you do it? Face the fact that the invasion of Iraq was a grudge match more than a necessity. You shouldn't be supported in your vendettas, nor should a nation's army be used as cannon fodder just because you hate Saddam Hussein. I hate Barbara Streisand, but I'm not asking Paul Martin to call out the troops!

My whole point is that the French owed us the favor. the WMD are there somewhere. If Saddam can burry Mig-29 Jets in the sand, just imagine what else could be out there. Another possiblity is that they are in another country, which seems more credible to me. But the French have already been caught in their scheme with the Iraqis. They would recieve oil to prevent the US from getting a UN backed resolution to invade Iraq.

I did a line by line rebuttle of this piece with lot's 'o curse words...
---------

---------
Fuck you. Ignorant twit made me waste 15 minutes of my time...


.

Hmm watch out with the flaiming ;) How the hell could that take 15 minutes of your time since you copied it from the net (see the ----- that you forgot to delete) ;) Perhaps he doesn't mind but if he wants to allert a MOD, he surely can :p

Wouldn't it be funny if France said, "Donnez-nous en arrière la statue de la liberté vous les bâtards arrogants!"?

You should have said some Americans.

Todays "younguns" think WW2 is ancient history. Many barely know anything about it.

Many of us know the history and respect the contributions.

Finally, your very argument can be said about some of the youth of the EU.

I have heard endless claims that the US really didn't do anything in the war.


Those that claim that the US didnt did anything are stupid, as are stupid those that say that they did everything, or those that claim that one single nation (whatever that nation is) "saved" the others. It was a world war against a fanatical foe. Everyone was important.

Wouldn't it be funny if France said, "Donnez-nous en arrière la statue de la liberté vous les bâtards arrogants!"?

Wouldn't it be funny if France said "We appologize for being so stupid and we will be sending troops to Iraq to help our allies, the United States of America"

Wouldn't it be funny if France said "We appologize for being so stupid and we will be sending troops to Iraq to help our allies, the United States of America"


I bet that if you send the French this poem, they will be inclined to do just that!

Wouldn't it be funny if France said "We appologize for being so stupid and we will be sending troops to Iraq to help our allies, the United States of America"
I think what you means is you want them to say, "Sorry master, since we are allies, how dare we not obey your every whim! Of course we will join you in this invasion of a sovereign nation! Would you like fries with that?"

Hmm watch out with the flaiming ;) How the hell could that take 15 minutes of your time since you copied it from the net (see the ----- that you forgot to delete) ;) Perhaps he doesn't mind but if he wants to allert a MOD, he surely can :p
Actually, that's my writing, just when I was rather pissed off. I can source it if you'd like, I took it from one of my little journal thingers (I'd call it a blog, but it isn't).

Ohh, a fucking boycott. Get in reality moron, won’t happen. They did nothing
I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
the Israelis and the rest,
for when it comes to valor
we have seen that they're the best.
---------
No, wrong again. The British are a third rate power, the Aussies are worse, and the Israelies are only strong because we prop them up.

I was reading this, and agreeing with every comment you made, until I came to this.

The Aussies are worse?
The Australian army are widely praised throughout the world for their skill, training and never say die attitude.
You have just spit on my fathers (a 20yr career, two tour Vietnam veteran) grave, not to mention all the other Aussie soldiers who died fighting other peoples wars, with this comment.
Our soldiers are in Iraq because the American President asked for them, especially out SAS troops, who are the best in the world at what they do.

I think what you means is you want them to say, "Sorry master, since we are allies, how dare we not obey your every whim! Of course we will join you in this invasion of a sovereign nation! Would you like fries with that?"

No I think what i ment is exactly what i said.

I bet that if you send the French this poem, they will be inclined to do just that!

Why don't you send it to them? Here is a link to the French embassies in the U.S. I'm sure they'll change their policy just as soon as you forward that poem to them.

http://www.info-france-usa.org/contactus.asp

My whole point is that the French owed us the favor. the WMD are there somewhere. .

Come on Grays Hill, the only weapons of MD that Saddam had and used where the chemical ones that he used against his Kurdish population (3 times hell) in the second half of the eighties. After all inspectors that where in Iraq, after all US troops that snifed the country, we still did not find any.

Do we really have to weight untill the Rumsfeld clan can burry some and then say: hell they had some... The amount of $ and citizenship given by the US to anyone who would leak or lead to a descover of those weapons would have convinced them.

Hell it even convinced some of Saddam familymembers to treason him for all the $, so why would not they if a real stock existed.

After all, it is the eternal motivation for the war: oil sources and huge money making contacts in US hands via Halliburton and the US oil industry.

Don't be so naive that people go to war for the sake of the population (remember Desert Storm, the allies did not care about the Iraqi people under their dictator)

If the US were getting oil out of this war, then the gas prices certainly would be lower.

I think what you means is you want them to say, "Sorry master, since we are allies, how dare we not obey your every whim! Of course we will join you in this invasion of a sovereign nation! Would you like fries with that?"

:p :p :p Belgian fries instead of that Republican allien who tought they where French, in fact the freedom fries thing returned as a boomerang in that propaganda writer's (Karl Rove :rolleyes: ?) face by being so ignorant.

The French had a US made Bush laugh (with the rest of the world that once eated fries) and those Belgians where angry by their recept given by the uS at the French :mad: .

:D

The Empire of Presidecny does not allow such disrespect from its citizzens. The punishment for such treachery is death.

Why don't you send it to them? Here is a link to the French embassies in the U.S. I'm sure they'll change their policy just as soon as you forward that poem to them.

http://www.info-france-usa.org/contactus.asp


The email I wrote

I am a user of an Internet Discussion Forum. Recently, a thread in which a poem offensive to France was posted. In the discussion that insued, the question of if the poem would contribute to the improvement of French-American relations arised. I would like to know the opinion of the Embassy of France in the US: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372160&page=1&pp=15

I patiently away your reply

My best regards.



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Well done.

If the US were getting oil out of this war, then the gas prices certainly would be lower.

So what?
Intention and purpose of the war aren't changed do to the rebellion.That is not logic :(

Again, war is like Clausewitz said, a continuation of economy but by other means. Your US oil sources are about dead, every one knows that and you just need a certain puppet state that will sell you the black gold (wathever the price) and won't start a boycot on you.

See what mess will happen in Egypt and the Saudi Arabia, there will be mass civil war (yep the religious fundamentalists never had it so easy to recrute and raise funds as during the US war in Iraq) Remember it, has been around a while in the middle east and the (non democratic, I agree) pro western regimes will face civil war.

The French can do what they want. They aren't cowards. And all those people boycotting French stuff are idiots. I don't think the French cared. It wasn't a lot of people that did that, I don't think. Anyway, I don't support the war. Why don't some of the people that were sitting at home, boycotting the French and calling them cowards go fight the in the war, instead of being lazy and calling poeple cowards. That's called being a hypocrite.

You do know Germany gave us just as much support in Iraq as France did. Where are the clever little poems calling the German people little girls who can't even fight a war? What is it with people and their boner for attacking the French? They gave us a ton of supprt after 9/11. Damn near every country in the world gave us an outpouring of support. The fact that they wouldn't follow us into an unsanctioned war against a country that posed no threat to the world doesn't suddenly make them a bunch of pussies.
Oh BTW Napoleon would have something to say about the French being unable to fight.

We have huge amounts of oil in Alaska that hasnt even started to be drilled on, because its sitting under a huge national park. It would be much cheaper to just drill it there than waste billions of dollars in war to get some. So obviously this war was not over oil.

I was reading this, and agreeing with every comment you made, until I came to this.

The Aussies are worse?
The Australian army are widely praised throughout the world for their skill, training and never say die attitude.
You have just spit on my fathers (a 20yr career, two tour Vietnam veteran) grave, not to mention all the other Aussie soldiers who died fighting other peoples wars, with this comment.
Our soldiers are in Iraq because the American President asked for them, especially out SAS troops, who are the best in the world at what they do.
No sir, I spit on the moron who made that comment. If the French are bad, the Brits and the Aussies are worse.

The email I wrote

I am a user of an Internet Discussion Forum. Recently, a thread in which a poem offensive to France was posted. In the discussion that insued, the question of if the poem would contribute to the improvement of French-American relations arised. I would like to know the opinion of the Embassy of France in the US: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372160&page=1&pp=15

I patiently away your reply

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Wow, that is great, but I am 99% sure that you will not have a reply, altough things are changing regarding the blatent rascisme of a certain CRWN part of the US public towards Europe and France in special

Oh BTW Napoleon would have something to say about the French being unable to fight.

Because you're going to hear it sooner or later, might as well make it sooner.

Napoleon was not actually French. He was born on the island of Corsica before it was made a part of France. So, technically, he is Corsican, not French.

We have huge amounts of oil in Alaska that hasnt even started to be drilled on, because its sitting under a huge national park. It would be much cheaper to just drill it there than waste billions of dollars in war to get some..
Well, I have been climbing at the Denali (Mt Mc Kinley, but I prefer the more climbers native used term) and I (and you)know that your presidents want to drill there. BTW those reserves will never be the amount found in Iraq and the middle east.

So obviously this war was not over oil.
Come on, try to contact a foreign country or New York and spend one year of your study there, if possible in corporation with a foreign education institute (like Erasmus in EU but I saw transatlantic exchanges to when I studies at the VUB) see if you will act diferently then 90% of the US citizens that come in contact with a more free press.

You'll change your opinion like almost all of them. As longer and how manier the access to international (serious US- included of course) press the wider your view will be and you'll understand that you guys really are far away from the GI's of 1944..and playing a dirty role.

Because you're going to hear it sooner or later, might as well make it sooner.

Napoleon was not actually French. He was born on the island of Corsica before it was made a part of France. So, technically, he is Corsican, not French.
True, true.
But none the less he did lead a French military. They did most of the fighting.

True, true.
But none the less he did lead a French military. They did most of the fighting.

Yes, I just figured I'd get it out of the way rather than one of the francophobes busting it out as more proof that France is weak.

The email I wrote

I am a user of an Internet Discussion Forum. Recently, a thread in which a poem offensive to France was posted. In the discussion that insued, the question of if the poem would contribute to the improvement of French-American relations arised. I would like to know the opinion of the Embassy of France in the US: http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=372160&page=1&pp=15

I patiently away your reply

I doubt you WILL get a reply...especially because your question is ridiculous. You are asking if a clearly offensive poem will improve relations between nations. That is like saying, "Hey, I heard this guy in France saying the U.S sucks. Do you think that will bring our countries closer?" Of course this kind of abuse doesn't make for warm, fuzzy feelings all around. However, the governments of both your nations should be above petty name calling (even though the average citizen may not be). If your governments WERE swayed by such things, it would be in a negative, not positive way.

We have huge amounts of oil in Alaska that hasnt even started to be drilled on, because its sitting under a huge national park. It would be much cheaper to just drill it there than waste billions of dollars in war to get some. So obviously this war was not over oil.

Grays Hill, you are an idiot. Go and wipe you nose, you snot filled piece of crap. My god, if you want to insult another country's honor, try and at least use credible facts.

To those in this thread who actually think the poem is worth defending and representative of the American view of France, I ask you what is your point? I mean really what are you attempting to do here? What is this stupid poem really saying? And why are you so vested in defending it?

First of all, you make no sense, you imply the French are poor "warriors" and yet your panties are all in a wad because they won't come and play your Iraqi sandbox.

Second, you think the US would actaully stop buying from the French, now typically referred to as the EU? Our largest competitor and a major customer? Are you thinking? Are you mad (as in cow)?

Third, you are morons, I don't really give a sh*t what your reply is.

Wahoo!
ScoMo

I doubt you WILL get a reply...especially because your question is ridiculous. You are asking if a clearly offensive poem will improve relations between nations. That is like saying, "Hey, I heard this guy in France saying the U.S sucks. Do you think that will bring our countries closer?" Of course this kind of abuse doesn't make for warm, fuzzy feelings all around. However, the governments of both your nations should be above petty name calling (even though the average citizen may not be). If your governments WERE swayed by such things, it would be in a negative, not positive way.


I doubt I will get a reply too. The thing is, most American's that bash the French have no idea of what they are saying, this was my own symbolic gesture.. hell, instead of keeping things in this forum, if they hate the French so much, go tell THEM, straight in the face (or straight in the email).

And keep in mind one thing: Both France and the US are democracies. Their leaders and goverments ARE indeed above the petty name calling, but they are also elected by the nationals that dedicate themselves to this kind of squabling.

Napoleon was not actually French. He was born on the island of Corsica before it was made a part of France. So, technically, he is Corsican, not French.

Noop it was diputed and he became French emporer, so tecnically, he is rather French , i would say so :)

+ don't forget that he saw himself as French and not as Corsican. We also could say that a lot of US presidents where not US since they have (mostly) French, German, Dutch or other European blood in the vains due to their ancesters, guess nobody would say that those are EU ;) It is my dear, just a question about a certaoin approche to historyin wich I see that you like to put things to your hand.

Napoleon would punch you in za face (no, that is to redneck), he would just kill ya if you would say that he is not French.

Hmm, nice, small Bonnie chops of the empty Sdaejeri head with one hand in his pocket :D

Grays Hill, you are an idiot. Go and wipe you nose, you snot filled piece of crap.

He is just a young CRWN a under the influance of the anti EU propaganda and rascisme. Be compasionate with him and give him your smile :)

There is still hope since he is young. Look at the post war 1945 W-Germany, even the people that where Nazi turned towards democracy so why would not their spiritual US brothers (I don't mean the comon Rep but the Cheney clan and the CRWN's) see the light after a while? :)

Noop it was diputed and he became French emporer, so tecnically, he is rather French , i would say so :)

+ don't forget that he saw himself as French and not as Corsican. We also could say that a lot of US presidents where not US since they have (mostly) French, German, Dutch or other European blood in the vains due to their ancesters, guess nobody would say that those are EU ;) It is my dear, just a question about a certaoin approche to historyin wich I see that you like to put things to your hand.

Napoleon would punch you in za face (no, that is to redneck), he would just kill ya if you would say that he is not French.

Hmm, nice, small Bonnie chops of the empty Sdaejeri head with one hand in his pocket :D

I am so sick of you and your percieved self-superiority. You whine and moan about how all us Americans only know history with an American slant, yet you have such a European slant to your knowledge that it makes you the biggest hypocrite I've ever known. You go on and on about how you're so educated in history because you've got a master's degree from some anonymous Belgian university. Do you know what your master's degree means? Dick. It has no bearing on your relative knowledge on anything; it just shows that you know how to cram for a test. Real knowledge is more than just a little paper letting you know you passed classes. You exhibit a great bias in all your "knowledge" of world history similar to the one that you accuse Americans of.

Yes, technically Napoleon was a Corsican. Yes, he became a Frenchman when he ascended to the throne in France. No, this does not mean that my earlier statement that Napoleon was a Corsican incorrect. And your claim that all American presidents are actually European because of their ancestors is beyond ridiculous. If you want to get that absurdly technical, then all people are actually African.

So, in conclusion, take your degree and burn it, because it means nothing to anyone here. A little piece of paper does not an intelligent man make, and you are a prime example of that.

I don't necessarily agree with all that's covered in this poem. I'm presenting it here as an interesting viewpoint which is held by a considerable number of Americans. No, I don't know who wrote it.


A French Poem written by an American

Eleven thousand soldiers
lay beneath the dirt and stone,
all buried on a distant land
so far away from home.

For just a strip of dismal beach
they paid a hero's price,
to save a foreign nation
They all made the sacrifice.

And now the shores of Normandy
Are lined with blocks of white:
Americans who didn't turn
from someone else's plight.

Eleven thousand reasons
for the French to take our side,
but in the moment of our need,
they chose to run and hide.

Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.

Without a soldier worth a damn
to be found within the region,
the French became the only land
to need a Foreign Legion.

You French all say we're arrogant.
Well hell, we've earned the right--
We saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.

But now you've made a big mistake,
and one that you'll regret;
you took sides with our enemies,
and that we won't forget.

It wasn't just our citizens
you spit on when you turned,
but every one of yours
who fell the day the towers burned.

You spit upon our soldiers,
on our pilots and Marines,
and now you'll get a little sense
of just what payback means.

So keep your Paris fashions
and your wine and your champagne,
and find some other market
that will buy your airplanes.

And try to find somebody else
to wear your French cologne,
for you're about to find out
what it means to stand alone.

You see, you need us far more
than we ever needed you.
America has better friends
who know how to be true.

I'd rather stand with warriors
who have the will and might,
than huddle in the dark
with those whose only flag is white.

I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
the Israelis and the rest,
for when it comes to valor
we have seen that they're the best.

We'll count on one another
as we face a moment dire,
while you sit on the sideline
with a sign, "friendship for hire."

We'll win this war without you
and we'll total up the cost,
and take it from your foreign aid,
and then you'll feel the loss.

And when your nation starts to fall,
well Frenchie, you can spare us,
just call the Germans for a hand,
they know the way to Paris.

Hmm, that looks a lot like trolling to me.....

Hmm morons like you try to see history desparatly true FOX glases, pitty that you are so ignorant about history.
But that must come due to the lack of good food and a Mc Crap diet.

Hmm you guys better come over to my nice gite, I learn you how to climb and ski here at La Grave (http://www.la-grave.com/english/meije.php).

In the evening you will drink great regional wines or contemplate about life and the greatness of the mountains or the historty of the Cathars in Southern France with a glass of true greatness in your hands: Guigal Cote Rotie, Bourgundy of Leroy or a Angélus, Sociando Mallet or a non US known treasure like the Prince Probus of Clos Tr. in Cahors. But last bottle sare only for real nice friends since it is not anymore possible to sell them to our public, so, you'll drink them for free if when you are a enleightent wine lover or a friend of mine :) .

When you'll go to bed, tired but happy,you'll understand why that crazy Flemish Belgian left his country and became a ENSA mountainguide and skiteacher instead of staying before his history class.

When you'll leave us, you'll never be such a anti EU (France in special) rascist again and will browse the internet for my recepe of "Poulet au Vin Jaune au Morilles".

All American guests leave us like that and will never vote Bush or fascist again.


Oooh, warned for flaming, Mr. Basil Fawlty.

I did a line by line rebuttle of this piece with lot's 'o curse words...
---------
Eleven thousand soldiers
lay beneath the dirt and stone,
all buried on a distant land
so far away from home.

For just a strip of dismal beach
they paid a hero's price,
to save a foreign nation
they all made the sacrifice.
---------
All well and good. Lets not forget the Australians and French who died to keep US territories free.
---------
And now the shores of Normandy
are lined with blocks of white:
Americans who didn't turn
from someone else's plight.
---------
Sorry? Can you say revisionist history? We were (and would have stayed) neutral for the entire war up until Hitler declared war on us (one of his many stupid mistakes). We rode to the rescue of no one. We ignored the plight of the French people and that of the Jewish people in Europe with a callous disregard.
---------
Eleven thousand reasons
for the French to take our side,
but in the moment of our need,
they chose to run and hide.
---------
Moment of Need? What the hell is he talking about? The Iraq war wasn't a moment of need, and it turns out in the end that the French were right. (No stockpiles of WMD, Iraq wasn’t a threat, inspections were working ect)
---------
Chirac said every war means loss,
perhaps for France that's true,
for they've lost every battle
since the days of Waterloo.
---------
Bullshit. A 'major of the United States Marine Corps' should know better then this. Take a look at the Battles of WWI and WWII (more the former then the latter, and late WWII). Take a look at the Suez Canal Incidents between France, GB and Egypt. Lost every battle? Hardly.
---------
Without a soldier worth a damn
to be found within the region,
the French became the only land
to need a Foreign Legion.
---------
Wrong again, the British had Indian troops fighting along side Regular British troops during WWI, and would have again in WWII if they weren't fighting against the Japanese in the Asian Front of the war. The Foreign Legion was a great group of troops, some of the finest in the world, and the name itself is slightly misleading, because they were drawn from the colonies of France. It is no different then the modern day US Army, which draws some of its troops from colonies of the United States
---------
You French all say we're arrogant
Well hell, we've earned the right--
We saved your sorry nation
when you lacked the guts to fight.
---------
Sorry? This makes no sense and shows a complete lack of knowledge about the Second and First world wars. In the second, no army in the world could have stopped Hitler in 1939-40, the United States included. We had no army to speak of at that time. 600,000 (Military) 270,000 (Civilian) deaths in France. Far more then the United States took. Now, to WWI, it is common knowledge that the United States entered the war far to late to even make an effective contribution to the war on a stratigical level. We didn't save France then, France and England saved France then. If you say that they didn't want to fight...France: 1,365,735 (Dead, roughly 1/7th of all killed by the war) 4,266,000 (Wounded) 477,800 (Captured) as opposed to the United States: 116,608 (Dead) 204,002 (Wounded). An absolutely silly statement.
---------
But now you've made a big mistake,
and one that you'll regret;
you took sides with our enemies,
and that we won't forget.

It wasn't just our citizens
you spit on when you turned,
but every one of yours who fell
the day the towers burned.
---------

Sorry? Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. The President said that. If you mean the original war on terror…sorry, they supported that. (http://nato.usmission.gov/Contributions/France.htm)
---------
You spit upon our soldiers,
on our pilots and Marines,
and now you'll get a little sense
of just what payback means.

So keep your Paris fashions
and your wine and your champagne,
and find some other market
that will buy your aeroplanes.

And try to find somebody else
to wear our French cologne,
for you're about to find out
what it means to stand alone.

You see, you need us far more
than we ever needed you.
America has better friends
who know how to be true.
---------
Ohh, a fucking boycott. Get in reality moron, won’t happen. They did nothing of the sort, save your pathetic francophobia for a country that deserves it. Compete or lose. That is capitalism. Also, if you took your head out of your ass for five seconds, you'd realize that the French people != the French Government. You are hurting the people because of the Government, which makes about as much sense as calling a preemptive war justifi...oops.
---------
I'd rather stand with warriors
who have the will and might,
than huddle in the dark with those
whose only flag is white.
---------
Snide and unsupported argument. The French are very good fighters, and rarely ever surrender. Everyone got caught off guard by the Nazi’s in WWII.
---------
I'll take the Brits, the Aussies,
the Israelis and the rest,
for when it comes to valor
we have seen that they're the best.
---------
No, wrong again. The British are a third rate power, the Aussies are worse, and the Israelies are only strong because we prop them up.
---------
We'll count on one another
as we face a moment dire,
while you sit on the sideline
with a sign, "friendship for hire".
---------

Brilliant. This has what to do with the Iraq war?
---------
We'll win this war without you
and we'll total up the cost,
and take it from your foreign aid,
and then you'll feel the loss.
---------
Win what war? (By the way, the French get no foreign aid from us.)
---------
And when your nation starts to fall,
well Frenchie, you can spare us,
just call the Germans for a hand,
they know the way to Paris.
---------
No, as you would be obliged to help under the NATO pact, but that is irrelevant. Why don’t you say something like “Ask the Russians the way to Berlin” or “Ask the British the way to the United States Capital”. Stupid, irrelevant comment.
---------
Don Fichthorn, Major USMC (Retired)
---------
Fuck you. Ignorant twit made me waste 15 minutes of my time...



In fact, I doubt a Major wrote this.

CSW, warned for flaming.

Hmm watch out with the flaiming ;) How the hell could that take 15 minutes of your time since you copied it from the net (see the ----- that you forgot to delete) ;) Perhaps he doesn't mind but if he wants to allert a MOD, he surely can :p


I would not take ANYONE to task for flaming if I were you.

Grays Hill, you are an idiot. Go and wipe you nose, you snot filled piece of crap. My god, if you want to insult another country's honor, try and at least use credible facts.

To those in this thread who actually think the poem is worth defending and representative of the American view of France, I ask you what is your point? I mean really what are you attempting to do here? What is this stupid poem really saying? And why are you so vested in defending it?

First of all, you make no sense, you imply the French are poor "warriors" and yet your panties are all in a wad because they won't come and play your Iraqi sandbox.

Second, you think the US would actaully stop buying from the French, now typically referred to as the EU? Our largest competitor and a major customer? Are you thinking? Are you mad (as in cow)?

Third, you are morons, I don't really give a sh*t what your reply is.Wahoo!
ScoMo

My reply is, warned for flaming.

Noop it was diputed and he became French emporer, so tecnically, he is rather French , i would say so :)

+ don't forget that he saw himself as French and not as Corsican. We also could say that a lot of US presidents where not US since they have (mostly) French, German, Dutch or other European blood in the vains due to their ancesters, guess nobody would say that those are EU ;) It is my dear, just a question about a certaoin approche to historyin wich I see that you like to put things to your hand.

Napoleon would punch you in za face (no, that is to redneck), he would just kill ya if you would say that he is not French.

Hmm, nice, small Bonnie chops of the empty Sdaejeri head with one hand in his pocket :D

Flaming, yet again.