NationStates Jolt Archive

Yep. It was in this week's TIME magazine. The exit polls said that that the #1 issue that affected people's choice in this election wasn't homeland security, wasnt terrorrism, wasnt Iraq, wasnt the economy, it was morality. Apparently it's more "important" to be safe from abortions and gays than from terrorrists. :rolleyes:

Personally, I think the most important issues are the economy and homeland security and I find it extremely disturbing that morality is more important among america as a whole.

Apparently it's more "important" to be safe from abortions and gays than from terrorrists.

I wonder if Americans actually think abortionists and homosexuals are terrorists; it wouldn't surprise me if fundamental Christians actually believed that.

Well, there's no sense defending the country if you don't defend the family first right?

And what the hell would those heathen Massechussets Liberals know about families? Those damn tolerant buggers would be the end of it all! Let them loose, and think of the results! The family unit would become an endangered species!

The whole country might wind up just like them....




Which according to the stats (http://www.divorcereform.org/94staterates.html) would be the best thing that families could hope for. After all, Mass DOES have the lowest divorce rate in the country......followed by Conneticut.


Yep, clearly those damn New England liberals don't know anything about what it takes to keep families together...

From a Washington Post article:

"The rallying cry for many social conservatives was opposition to same-sex marriage. But concern about the Supreme Court, abortion, school prayer and pornography also motivated these "values voters." Same-sex marriage, said Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, was "the hood ornament on the family values wagon that carried the president to a second term." "

It's sad to think that people think "morality" should be legislated.

I have no issues with people who voted for the shrub who thought he was better for the economy, protect us from terrorism, etc.

Morality votes? Sorry that seems simple minded to me.

Ahh well

Explain to those folks that morals are mind constructions and illusions of society please.

Fighting over morals is like fighting for the qualities of your imaginary friend.

"Morality" and "Family Values" are relative to the religious beliefs of those who support them. Government must stay away from religion. The most moral government would be the one that does not regulate our morals.

Here's an example...
If your religion is homophobic, then stick to straight marriages.
If your religion is not homophobic, then feel free to have a gay marriage.
In either case, don't let the government control the issue.

Well, there's no sense defending the country if you don't defend the family first right?

And what the hell would those heathen Massechussets Liberals know about families? Those damn tolerant buggers would be the end of it all! Let them loose, and think of the results! The family unit would become an endangered species!

The whole country might wind up just like them....




Which according to the stats (http://www.divorcereform.org/94staterates.html) would be the best thing that families could hope for. After all, Mass DOES have the lowest divorce rate in the country......followed by Conneticut.


Yep, clearly those damn New England liberals don't know anything about what it takes to keep families together...

Hooray Massachusetts!

I find it sickening that so many people want to force others to conform to their viewpoints becuase some 2000 year old book told them to thiink that way. For me government exists to PROTECT society form people like that.

It's sad to think that people think "morality" should be legislated.
I fancy the converse though - "Ban morality"!

I fancy the converse though - "Ban morality"!
Great, lets do that!

Great post Zeppistan.

I was going to touch upon something similar - like how moral it is to segregate/exclude people from God and religion because they' different.

I wonder how all those homosexuals of past felt about their inner feelings, when their catholic teacher was telling them that they represent the devil and vice?
No matter what, strict adherance to the old ways of thought must be enforced - lest we become a more compassionate people to 'labeled - immoral issues'.

How the hell can anyone claim tolerance and religousness when they ignore and chastize and attempt to illegitmatize a suffering people/person.

I thought the most general and basic interpretation of spirituality was the practice of good will, love and peace towards others - no matter how different and how opposed they are to you/the issues?

I find it sickening that so many people want to force others to conform to their viewpoints becuase some 2000 year old book told them to thiink that way. For me government exists to PROTECT society form people like that.
Unfortunately, at this point someone pops up and points to your[1] history exclaiming "Look, look, we were founded as a Christian nation".
Which is a shame, really, because they've such closed minds they can't accept that things move on and change. Grief, the internet was founded as a military tool and look at it now. The USSR was founded as a communist state - but you can bet the same people won't be claiming it should have always stayed that way 'cos it started that way.
[1] I'm assuming you're American.

Actually, the most important issue facing everyone on the planet today is one that no politician talks about - population growth.

It took all of human history until the beginning of the 19th century for world population to break the one billion mark. In the brief two centuries since we have reached a population of 6.4 billion. Although growth has slowed, it is not expected to level off for another 50 years until we reach the 10 billion mark.

This is an issue humans have never had to deal with before. As China and India (1.3 billion and 1 billion respectively) industrialize what impact does this added pollution have on air and water? What will do with the waste of 10 billion people? What happens to plant and animal life as 10 billion people expand into natural areas? Do we have jobs for 10 billion people? Can we afford the negative repercussions on the environment of 10 billion consumers?
Our world will become even more violent the population of a disaffected, worldwide underclass grows.

Nearly every problem facing humankind today and ain the near future is a direct cause of overpopulation.

I find it sickening that so many people want to force others to conform to their viewpoints becuase some 2000 year old book told them to thiink that way. For me government exists to PROTECT society form people like that.
I find it sickening that when the majority of americans want something, and vote for it, a small minority thinks they need to impose their will on the whole by abusing the court systems and labeling evryone else as bigoted.

Yup, American

but thankfully i am living in Austria

i might immigrate to canada though

I find it sickening that when the majority of americans want something, and vote for it, a small minority thinks they need to impose their will on the whole by abusing the court systems and labeling evryone else as bigoted.

Sorry but that is the way our system works. The majority is not always right.

A majority of people in the South thought it was ok to have seperate drinking fountains, seperate entrances, etc.

Well, get this: Moralists have the backing of God. God is the truth. So they have the moral obligation to spread the truth. If religious people conquer points of authority, they retain that moral obligation. The thing is, in power, they have the authority to make illegal everything that goes against God, which is the truth. So religious people have the moral obligation to criminalize everything that goes against the wishes of their god.

Tyranny of the majority, Hitler was elected... stop the wishful thinking. There isnt anything written that the US will remain free and tolerant forever.

The US was NOT founded as a Christian nation. That argument is completely bunk. In fact, many of the founding fathers who wrote the US Constitution were Deists or Unitarians. Furthermore, many of the original settlers came to the colonies for religious freedom. Rhode Island is the best example of this.

The only way to have freedom OF religion is to have freedom FROM religion. For some reason, many Christians believe that they are suffering discrimination if their values are not the only ones accepted. Religious freedom is to PROTECT Christians, not to harm you. Why can't most of them understand that?

ROFL, 55 million americans come out as being more afraid of gay people than terrorists or not having a job. There are 200 million possible voters, that means one out of every four adults are suffering from this.

especially with that draft coming eh? :)

Well, get this: Moralists have the backing of God. God is the truth. So they have the moral obligation to spread the truth. If religious people conquer points of authority, they retain that moral obligation. The thing is, in power, they have the authority to make illegal everything that goes against God, which is the truth. So religious people have the moral obligation to criminalize everything that goes against the wishes of their god.

Tyranny of the majority, Hitler was elected... stop the wishful thinking. There isnt anything written that the US will remain free and tolerant forever.

I'm sorry, but there is something that says we will remain free and tolerant forever. The first US lawmakers were very wise about it. It was the government's self-destruct mechanism in case the government should prove itself failing. It is called the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.

especially with that draft coming eh? :)
:rolleyes: There will be no draft.

I'm sorry, but there is something that says we will remain free and tolerant forever. The first US lawmakers were very wise about it. It was the government's self-destruct mechanism in case the government should prove itself failing. It is called the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.


Glad to hear that. But you still have to be careful, no? Constitutions sometimes.. fall.

Glad to hear that. But you still have to be careful, no? Constitutions sometimes.. fall.

May such a day never come upon us. :rolleyes:

From what I understand the Morality Poll was not specific and could have been people who thought that it was morally wrong to invade Iraq. So, in a way it covers a lot of possible issues.

Though I have no doubt that it mostly covered the Abortion/gay marriage issues.

Freedom of religion.... This should be taken as it sounds... Any citizen of the United States should be able to practice any religion that does not infringe apon the rights of any other person or group in the country.

Also, morality, as was stated before, is usually based entirely on religion. It is the religous majority who usually control what the government considers moral. This is where we have to change things. All the hoo haa about separation of church and state, is a bunch of bull... Nearly all issues and laws based on what is moral and what is not, is based entirely on the morals put forth in the bible...and whats worse, the morals put forth in the worst part of the bible. The part written by men who used religion to gain power and control over the people. The bible was written by man.. not god... devine inspiration is not absolute in the bible. Just look at how much the bible has changed in history. If you look at a bible printed 100 years ago, and one printed today... the language and meaning are totally different... you actually think the contents of the King James bible is straight from the mouth of god?

In the earliest bible texts, god was referred to as Elohim... which is a non gender specific term.. meaning god is not male or female... yet... man changed that didnt they?

The bible is NOT law, and should never BE law... it can be used as a point of reference, but not when it infringes on the rights of those who are NOT christian.

And now to Family Values..... who is to say that a gay or lesbian couple that have been together in a loving relationship for over 10 years, who have a child of 5 they have raised lovingly and careingly... isnt a family? A family that raises thier child to accept others, and respect others, and teaches thier child about the REAL problems and joys of love and sexuality. Making sure that when their child grows up, he/she does not make the wrong choices in that arena. Raises thier child not to hate those he/she does not understand, but rather to learn and experience them, and make an informed decision on whether or not he agrees with thier lives, yet still accepts them for who they are.

Indeed, would not that gay or lesbian family, be more moral, and have much better family values, than the huge catholic family, where the mother and father barely talk, with 3 daughters and 2 boys, who are emotionally separated from thier father, and are oppressed by thier alcaholic mother. Who when they grow to puberty, know nothing of sexuality or love, and get pregnent or get someone else pregnent at the age of 14.

The gay/lesbian couple I mentioned above, comes from people I know and respect..... they have the brightest, nicest, most morally respectable child I have ever met.

Gay marriage?.... What makes everyone think that:

1.) God hates gays... the bible was written by man.. not god.
2.) The Christian god is the only deity that can bless marriage? Oh wait.. I forgot, there is only 1 God.... well which one is that, God, Jehova, Elohim, Allah? You say they are all the same?.. then why is the majority of the monotheistic world constantly at war... killing each other over the one true god, with many names? Marriage is blessed by only the hearts and souls of the couple who are married. Deity only provides the basis for the alignment of the souls involved.

Ugg... why did I let myself get into this one....

I wonder if Americans actually think abortionists and homosexuals are terrorists; it wouldn't surprise me if fundamental Christians actually believed that.
And that is exactly what Jerry Falwell and Ann Coulter have done, blamed 9/11 on abortionists, homosexuals, and feminists. Not that they represent christians as a whole, just the most bigoted and closed minded portion of them.

I find it sickening that when the majority of americans want something, and vote for it, a small minority thinks they need to impose their will on the whole by abusing the court systems and labeling evryone else as bigoted.
The problem here is that the small minority aren't trying to impose their will on the whole, since what they want has absolutely no affect on someone who disagrees. Gay marraige does not affect straight marriage. It is the majority trying to impose their will on the legislation of minority rights. That's tyrranical.

Hey Eclecta,
nice thoughts... mostly mine taken further...

I saw this in the Tao Te Ching...

"When a country obtains great power,
it becomes like the sea:
all streams run downward into it.
The more powerful it grows,
the greater the need for humility.
Humility means trusting the Tao,
thus never needing to be defensive.

A great nation is like a great man:
When he makes a mistake, he realizes it.
Having realized it, he admits it.
Having admitted it, he corrects it.
He considers those who point out his faults
as his most benevolent teachers.
He thinks of his enemy
as the shadow that he himself casts.

If a nation is centered in the Tao,
if it nourishes its own people
and doesn't meddle in the affairs of others,
it will be a light to all nations in the world."


I thought that I should send this to Bush. Then I remembered that this is "heathen" literature to him. Think about it.

I find it sickening that so many people want to force others to conform to their viewpoints becuase some 2000 year old book told them to thiink that way. For me government exists to PROTECT society form people like that.
Exactly. "Family values"? My butt. All they care about is the Bible.

Family values are things like homes with no abuse, fighting, alcoholism, or other crises. Abortion and homosexual marriage :rolleyes: ? Geez, what's up with those idiots? I'm not sure, but I think it said somewhere in the Bible that it's wrong to abuse people.. nah, never mind, I'll go kill some gays instead of worrying about little things like that... :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but there is something that says we will remain free and tolerant forever. The first US lawmakers were very wise about it. It was the government's self-destruct mechanism in case the government should prove itself failing. It is called the Second Amendment to the US Constitution.
Yeah, I can picture that. George Washington and the Founding Fathers sitting there going, "OK, we've got a plan on how to found a good land. Now, how to let the people destroy it?" :rolleyes: Er, he-lloo-oh?

So I suppose that if I am to become an engineer and build a perfect, fire-proof house, I'll top it off by installing a fire bomb somewhere where the resident family can find it and set it off to destroy the house, then. Or I might make a vaccination that protects you from AIDS, but, just in case, also invent a pill that gives you AIDS if you grow tired of being happy.

Give the Founding Fathers some credit, friend.

May such a day never come upon us.
Yeah, I know. Imagine living in a time where police can break into your house without a search warrant; arresting you without trial for speaking your mind on terrorism in a way unfavourable to the State (http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/0307/patriot.act/gallery.patriot.act.intro.jpg); or seeking to marry someone you love just because they're the same gender as you (http://images.google.no/images?q=tbn:XF9Msy6rDZcJ:www.christianmusictv.com/16b9d69f0.jpg).

Imagine living in a world where you are separated because of your heritage (http://www.africanaencyclopedia.com/apartheid/southafricangirl.jpg); beaten up for your traits (http://www.sundayherald.com/31978); or enslaved by others who use your colour as a justification. (http://search.eb.com/blackhistory/art/oslavey004p1.jpg) Imagine a land that invades a democratic country and installs a dictator, solely for monetary gain. (http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/chile.jpg)

May the USA never become a place like that.
( :( )

Seriously, though, open your eyes. Don't let those idiots destroy the beutiful country that is the USA. I love the States, but throughout time its leaders and many of its people have shown an amazing ability to overlook tyranny. When will you guys ever learn?!

A majority of people in the South thought it was ok to have seperate drinking fountains, seperate entrances, etc.
Exactly.

From what I understand the Morality Poll was not specific and could have been people who thought that it was morally wrong to invade Iraq. So, in a way it covers a lot of possible issues.

Though I have no doubt that it mostly covered the Abortion/gay marriage issues.

Wrong there captain. American media and politics has painted "morality" as a conservative view. No matter how much the democrats hate this.

:rolleyes: There will be no draft.

I couldn't help silently laughing at the implied tone of you saying "Are you kidding me?" :D

You would think morality would be based more around universal kindess and love not whether you're gay or not.. but meh.. :sniper: I mean, the whole point of the Bible is to speak out against homosexuality, not teach the Law of Love...

There will be no draft. A major reason is because women will have to be included in a draft. I will bet you $125.00 right now that there will be no draft in the next 25 years. THERE WILL BE NO DRAFT!!!!!!!