NationStates Jolt Archive

It just struck me.

By electing "W" - against all odds - the US has redefined the global paradigm of how nations should be run.

I think that from now on democracies will trend towards the "right" and there will be a whole new era henceforth.

Please comment.

No not re-defined how Nations should be run... Solidified our stance against Terrorism and those who would support it.

No not re-defined how Nations should be run... Solidified our stance against Terrorism and those who would support it.


I actually think that W is going to redefine the tax code too,

I think we are in for huge domestic changes that will put conventional wisdom on its head. After that it will lead to a change in global perspective. Look at the whole Reagan/Thatcher deal.

It just struck me.

By electing "W" - against all odds - the US has redefined the global paradigm of how nations should be run.

I think that from now on democracies will trend towards the "right" and there will be a whole new era henceforth.

Please comment.

You're leaping across a rather big chasm saying that, aren't you, old girl?

You're leaping across a rather big chasm saying that, aren't you, old girl?

That's what they said about el alamein too. But look how that turned out. Old girl.

Actually I think Europe and Canada will move further to the left (Australia too, eventually) and we'll increasingly be fed anti-Europe propoganda, shit like Freedom Fries. As time goes on, we may just end up being an isolationist powerful feared nation...sort of like the Soviet Union in its heyday.

Actually I think Europe and Canada will move further to the left (Australia too, eventually) and we'll increasingly be fed anti-Europe propoganda, shit like Freedom Fries. As time goes on, we may just end up being an isolationist powerful feared nation...sort of like the Soviet Union in its heyday.

Yeah, that was the conventional wisdom with Reagan/Thatcher too.

Didn't happen though, those two redefined politics for all of us.

Yeah, that was the conventional wisdom with Reagan/Thatcher too.

Didn't happen though, those two redefined politics for all of us.
And then the Democrats and New Labour took back power, and now the Republicans are in power here...

Politics as a whole tend to be like a pendulum, but general trends leftward seemed to be the case, until recently.

And then the Democrats and New Labour took back power, and now the Republicans are in power here...

Politics as a whole tend to be like a pendulum, but general trends leftward seemed to be the case, until recently.

No. New labour is more right wing than the conservative Heath government in the 70s.

Also Bill Clinton was completely right wing fiscally - on paper at least.


Reagan/Thatcher altered our perception of how governmetn works. YOu are aware that the UK used to have a 98% tax bracket and the US used to have a 70% tax bracket aren't you. That kind of thing is unthinkable today,

No. New labour is more right wing than the conservative Heath government in the 70s.
I'm afraid I'm not very knowledgable on British politics, beyond what little has come up recently.

Also Bill Clinton was completely right wing fiscally - on paper at least.
Really? I hear plenty of rants about how he tried to socialize health care, and turned welfare into a monster...as well, he was fairly liberal socially...no one worried about abortion being banned under his presidency.

Reagan/Thatcher altered our perception of how governmetn works. YOu are aware that the UK used to have a 98% tax bracket and the US used to have a 70% tax bracket aren't you. That kind of thing is unthinkable today,
No I wasn't aware. Once again I must google a bit.

No I wasn't aware. Once again I must google a bit.

I am lazy, but please post any good links you find.

http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/taxes/ustax.shtml
A long fairly detailed history of American taxation, broken into time periods.

I'm no economist, I can't really argue what's good and what's not good, but in any case it is apparent that the Reagan 1981 tax cuts were fairly substantial.

I am bumping because I think this is important.

bump.

It just struck me.

By electing "W" - against all odds - the US has redefined the global paradigm of how nations should be run.

I think that from now on democracies will trend towards the "right" and there will be a whole new era henceforth.

Please comment.
I think Europe has been slowly moving to the right for a while now.

Ou are aware that the UK used to have a 98% tax bracket

"Squeeze the rich till the pips squeak" I beileve was the mantra for that.

Needless to say, that government fell fantastically.

"Crisis, what crisis." Was the comment on the Winter of Discontent (huge general strike)

I think Europe has been slowly moving to the right for a while now.



"Squeeze the rich till the pips squeak" I beileve was the mantra for that.

Needless to say, that government fell fantastically.

"Crisis, what crisis." Was the comment on the Winter of Discontent (huge general strike)

Good, good.

Someone remembers Dennis "Knacker" Healy.

My fav though was Harrased Wilsods. But he was out of power by then.

Still my point stands, Thatcher milk snatcher, and her buddy Reagan drove the world to the right. The same thing is happening now.

The Hinge of Fate... needs WD40.

I am bumping because I think this is important.

bump.
This is important, much more important than most of the other pointless threads clogging the front page. But I must be off to sleep now, I'll bookmark this page for tomorrow.

This is important, much more important than most of the other pointless threads clogging the front page. But I must be off to sleep now, I'll bookmark this page for tomorrow.

Thanks.

I mean that.

Good, good.

Someone remembers Dennis "Knacker" Healy.

I thought it was Jim Callaghan

My fav though was Harrased Wilsods. But he was out of power by then.

As an aside. His personal secretary frequently liased with the makers of Yes [Prime] Minister, telling them stories about how goverment works.

Still my point stands, Thatcher milk snatcher, and her buddy Reagan drove the world to the right. The same thing is happening now.
The only difference this time around is that France also has a conservative head of state.

This is quite good page on the social scene in Britain in the late 70's.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/921524.stm

This is quite good page on the social scene in Britain in the late 70's.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/921524.stm

the "knacker" healy quote was "pips squeak"

"Sunny Jim" calaghan was:"Crises what crises"

Sunny jim also said: "We used to believe that we could get ourselves out of a recession by cutting taxes and increasing government spending, it no longer seems that this is the case"

or words to that effect.

In any event, "sunny jim" gave the world thatcher.

It just struck me.

By electing "W" - against all odds - the US has redefined the global paradigm of how nations should be run.

I think that from now on democracies will trend towards the "right" and there will be a whole new era henceforth.

Please comment.
The western world is becoming more "Libertarian". It didn't start with the election of Bush, though. Even if Kerry was elected, I think that Europe would still continue on the "Libertarian" path. We don't like the increasingly Christian fundamentalist disposition of your government, nor its economic irresponsibility, which affects all of us.

Actually, i don't see a trend o.o

US was right wing, stayed right wing
Spain was right wing, moved to left wing
UK is left wing, most likely will stay that way
France is right wing, dunno how can they change
Germany is left wing, dunno how can they change
Portugal is Right wing, most likely will move to left wing

o.o

Remember one thing: Blair for example, as been accused of managing the economy like a right winger or something. But that does not exist. Economy is a science, the economy of a country can only be well run, or poorly run (and the political choice is if you want efficiency or equity)

the "knacker" healy quote was "pips squeak"

"Sunny Jim" calaghan was:"Crises what crises"

Sorry just misunderstood you.

Actually, i don't see a trend o.o

US was right wing, stayed right wing
Spain was right wing, moved to left wing

However, was that due to a reaction against the Madrid bombs and the political handleing of the situation of it, and a protest against getting involved in Iraq, rather then the population actually moving towards the left wing?

I assume you know more about Spain though, due to our geographic locations.

UK is left wing, most likely will stay that way

Not really. Although the labour party dominates British Politics and the Party was many left wingers in it. The head of the party is very much slightly centre-right. However I think Blair is a touch more left wing then Clinton was.

France is right wing, dunno how can they change

It would probably be left wing though, but Voter apathy practically forced Chirac back into power (remember it was either a Fascist or a crook). I don't think that France is a particularly right wing. Certainly not as right wing as Chirac anyway.

Germany is left wing, dunno how can they change

As far as I understand, Germany is in the same boat as Britain. The main left wing party has moved towards the centre. By giving employers more freedom to hire and fire and trying to reduce public spending.

Portugal is Right wing, most likely will move to left wing

I'll tkae your word for that.

Remember one thing: Blair for example, as been accused of managing the economy like a right winger or something.

Blair doesn't manage the economy. Gordon Brown does, and he has occasionally been referred to as "the best Conservative Chancellor of the Exchequer"

But that does not exist. Economy is a science, the economy of a country can only be well run, or poorly run (and the political choice is if you want efficiency or equity)

It depends on how the money is spent though. A conservative typically want low tax and little to be spent on the public sector. The typical socialist view is "Tax and Spend." Really the current Labour government doesn't really fit both. Blair has tried to reduce spending using various schemes to reduce the size of the Public Sector (PPP, PFI etc).

Blair belongs to "the third way" or whatever the name, right? Right wing managing of the economy, left wing managing of the society?

Blair belongs to "the third way" or whatever the name, right? Right wing managing of the economy, left wing managing of the society?
Cosmetically. But not with Blunkett as HS. As recently, Blair said Labour was ending the 60's Liberal consensus on crime. Not really, that left wing.

By electing "W" - against all odds - the US has redefined the global paradigm of how nations should be run.

It wasn't against all odds; most knew, but wouldn't admit out loud, that it was going to be close and that Bush would win the margin.

I'd suspect not so much a right-ward trend, but a stubborn demand to stay where it is. Many have always assumed that the flow of history was leftward, and that eventually we'd reach that communist utopia, but from what it looks like to me, the US is saying no further, we like it here.

And if the rest of the world wants to travel to a non-governmental society, the US won't interfere, we'll just sweep it all up once it occurs.

The western world is becoming more "Libertarian". It didn't start with the election of Bush, though. Even if Kerry was elected, I think that Europe would still continue on the "Libertarian" path. We don't like the increasingly Christian fundamentalist disposition of your government, nor its economic irresponsibility, which affects all of us.
you mean the economic irresponsibility of cutting taxes, a key libertarian point?

It just struck me.

By electing "W" - against all odds - the US has redefined the global paradigm of how nations should be run.

I think that from now on democracies will trend towards the "right" and there will be a whole new era henceforth.

Please comment.

I'm curious to know why the re-election of Bush has defined a global paradigm wheras the re-election of Clinton didn't.

As for the comparison to Reagan and Thatcher, it doesn't strike me as the same. A minor point is that it was Reagan and Thatcher, right now it's Bush and Bush. More importantly, though, Reagan and Thatcher challenged economic conventions and developed a new alternative that proved more successful and was then widely adopted. To be honest I don't really see what fresh new ideas Bush is offering, mostly his economics seems very much in the Reaganite mould.

you mean the economic irresponsibility of cutting taxes, a key libertarian point?

Just before this goes further I thought I'd point out that the term "libertarian" has very different connotations in the US and Europe. In particular European-style libertarianism is much less focused on economic liberty and more on social liberty so tax cuts are not necessarily a central issue, so Dy Dx may not have meant that particular element. Sorry to jump in but having had to stumble through the confusion myself before I thought I'd offer a clarification.

I'm curious to know why the re-election of Bush has defined a global paradigm wheras the re-election of Clinton didn't.

As for the comparison to Reagan and Thatcher, it doesn't strike me as the same. A minor point is that it was Reagan and Thatcher, right now it's Bush and Bush. More importantly, though, Reagan and Thatcher challenged economic conventions and developed a new alternative that proved more successful and was then widely adopted. To be honest I don't really see what fresh new ideas Bush is offering, mostly his economics seems very much in the Reaganite mould.

He is going to introduce a flat tax.