NationStates Jolt Archive

I have just received my CD of "Stolen Honor".
Should I watch it.

I saw it. It was very interesting. Watch it if you've got it.

I have just received my CD of "Stolen Honor".
Should I watch it.

Yeah, it'll help you decide how to vote. :)

Only if you want to appreciate the Vietnam vets' position and learn a part of history that isn't taught in school. It's really telling and not for the squeamish.

Sure why not, it doesn't matter anymore anyways.

It'll probably be interesting as a cultural relic, but not much more than that.

Sure why not, it doesn't matter anymore anyways.

Why? Because Kerry lost? That was the least of it. To try to silence our vets in order to promote a political cause is shameful. It's way past time that we listened to our vets. That's the LEAST that we owe them and you could learn a lot.

Why? Because Kerry lost? That was the least of it. To try to silence our vets in order to promote a political cause is shameful. It's way past time that we listened to our vets. That's the LEAST that we owe them and you could learn a lot.
Nobody tried to silence anyone. Get over it. You won.

yes watch it if you are intrested. I do, and it give A LOT of great insight. So, if it is something that you would like, then rock on. If not, rock on aswell. But its all on your train of thinking

It'll probably be interesting as a cultural relic, but not much more than that.

Why is it that the tales from our vets from other wars is of historical significance, but the Nam vets' lives are of no importance? These people fought in a war their country sent them into and they came home to hate and derision. They have kept quiet all of these years in order to avoid conflict. It's time to let them speak!!

Nobody tried to silence anyone. Get over it. You won.

You still don't get it. It's not a political win/lose issue. I'm married to a Nam vet. This is about listening to them, learning from them, and never making the same mistakes again. It's too late to make things right for them now.

I have just received my CD of "Stolen Honor".
Should I watch it.
Watch it? What's it going to do?

It is times like this you should ask 'WWMMD"

What would Michael Moore Do?

Eat it.

Watch it? What's it going to do?

It is times like this you should ask 'WWMMD"

What would Michael Moore Do?

Eat it.
he would eat about anything.... forget the "about"

I have just received my CD of "Stolen Honor".
Should I watch it.
I assume you bought it? Well, you may as well watch it. No sense in wasting money... or if you didn't pay for it, you might as well. It's so depressing to me when I see someone with a DVD, CD, VHS or anything like that which they've had for months and still haven't taken out of the plastic wrap. Even if it's crap, you should watch it so you can say it's crap.

You still don't get it. It's not a political win/lose issue. I'm married to a Nam vet. This is about listening to them, learning from them, and never making the same mistakes again. It's too late to make things right for them now.
Everything is political. Everything. It shouldn't be that way, but it is, especially when we're talking about a film that was made with an overtly political agenda. Yes, it's important to hear from vets and to learn from our previous mistakes (a discussion you might want to have with the administration in re Iraq), but don't act like this film is some sort of dispassionate look at these men. It's a political statement and was never anything else.

Watch it.

It's interesting to hear the crap the POWs went through.

There is a subtle and well placed political design in it.

If you didn't know any better, you would think Kerry caused the Protests, Kerry caused them to be tortured, Kerry caused the war to go on.....

I doubt it would have converted many people. It enfored those that were already against him.

Do watch it.

Signed a Kerry voter.....

Everything is political. Everything. It shouldn't be that way, but it is, especially when we're talking about a film that was made with an overtly political agenda. Yes, it's important to hear from vets and to learn from our previous mistakes (a discussion you might want to have with the administration in re Iraq), but don't act like this film is some sort of dispassionate look at these men. It's a political statement and was never anything else.

It was a political statement in that the vets, who thought Kerry, Fonda, O'Dwer, Muskey, and the lot should have been prosecuted for aiding and providing comfort to the enemy. They broke over 30 years of silence to remind people what happened. They've not spoken out in all of these years. Why can't they be heard now?

It was a political statement in that the vets, who thought Kerry, Fonda, O'Dwer, Muskey, and the lot should have been prosecuted for aiding and providing comfort to the enemy. They broke over 30 years of silence to remind people what happened. They've not spoken out in all of these years. Why can't they be heard now?
Why didn't they speak out 20 years ago? 10 years ago? 5 years ago? WHy is it that only when there was a Presidential campaign going on that they decided to speak out? Tell me that the timing wasn't politically motivated. Give me a break.

And no one I've ever talked to has suggested that these men should be silenced. We've only said that you have to take the political motivations and aims of the filmmakers into account when you watch it. That's all.

I wouldn't bother watching it. The entire thing just says: "We are veterans that went through a lot of crap for our country, and Kerry stole our honor. Make him give it back." Now, there's nothing wrong with that first part. Veterans should be respected for their service and their ordeals. But they cannot legitimately demand political concessions based on that respect. Or expect me to believe that Kerry somehow managed to "steal" their "honor".

They should not be offended by Kerry's activism or his testimony or his service, because if they did not participate in those acts, instead of denying that anything outside of their realm of experience could possibly happen, they should join him in his outrage that such things happened. He did not condemn them, he condemned the war. It is an inherent ideal of our country to allow the expression of dissenting political and moral opinions.

Looking back at that last paragraph I think I may have gotten a little carried away. The election is over. But that doesn't mean that the defenders of the left, or the right, should immediately lapse into silence. So I'm going to leave it up.

Why didn't they speak out 20 years ago? 10 years ago? 5 years ago? WHy is it that only when there was a Presidential campaign going on that they decided to speak out? Tell me that the timing wasn't politically motivated. Give me a break.

And no one I've ever talked to has suggested that these men should be silenced. We've only said that you have to take the political motivations and aims of the filmmakers into account when you watch it. That's all.

Why didn't they speak out? Because they were met with violent demonstrations and hate when they came back. They were advised to change into civies before they left the reception area so they wouldn't be mobbed and beaten, or worse. It was easier to keep quiet and not be condemned and abused any more. As for not silencing them...look through the threads on here concerning Sinclair's attempt to air the documentary. Kerry and his campaign were invited to participate in an analysis of the vets' claims, but they declined. Therefore, Sinclair was pressured into dropping their original plans and just give the vets passing lip service.

Back in the spring when Kerry started bragging about his Nam service, a group of vets stood up and asked that he not imply that they suppored him by including them and their pictures in his campaign. They were ignored by Kerry and the media. So the Swifties and POWs for truth used a method that got peoples' attention. I watched an interview with O'Neill where one of the interviewers kept screaming "liar" and wouldn't let O'Neill get two words out of his mouth. He was an extreme example of a common liberal sentiment. Rather than listen and learn if there was something that mattered in the vets' claims, they ran around ranting and raving and trying to ban their testimony. SHAMEFUL!!!

Why didn't they speak out? Because they were met with violent demonstrations and hate when they came back. They were advised to change into civies before they left the reception area so they wouldn't be mobbed and beaten, or worse. It was easier to keep quiet and not be condemned and abused any more. As for not silencing them...look through the threads on here concerning Sinclair's attempt to air the documentary. Kerry and his campaign were invited to participate in an analysis of the vets' claims, but they declined. Therefore, Sinclair was pressured into dropping their original plans and just give the vets passing lip service.

Back in the spring when Kerry started bragging about his Nam service, a group of vets stood up and asked that he not imply that they suppored him by including them and their pictures in his campaign. They were ignored by Kerry and the media. So the Swifties and POWs for truth used a method that got peoples' attention. I watched an interview with O'Neill where one of the interviewers kept screaming "liar" and wouldn't let O'Neill get two words out of his mouth. He was an extreme example of a common liberal sentiment. Rather than listen and learn if there was something that mattered in the vets' claims, they ran around ranting and raving and trying to ban their testimony. SHAMEFUL!!!
By the mid-80s, people were talking about the Vietnam War in far different terms. That was the time to come out, and a number of vets did at the time. And you've got a really strange memory of what happened in the campaign. First off, O'Neill and his Swift Vets cronies did spread lies about Kerry's service, so to call him a liar was the correct thing to do. And again--nobody tried to ban their testimony or silence them. That you continue to claim they did is harmful to your own credibility.

ready incertonia?

ready incertonia?
I was born ready. :D

i sent you a telegram, I am on dial up, but this ought work, I am pressing 'send' in about 30 seconds.....

I hope you brought your sense of humor today....

done

By the mid-80s, people were talking about the Vietnam War in far different terms. That was the time to come out, and a number of vets did at the time. And you've got a really strange memory of what happened in the campaign. First off, O'Neill and his Swift Vets cronies did spread lies about Kerry's service, so to call him a liar was the correct thing to do. And again--nobody tried to ban their testimony or silence them. That you continue to claim they did is harmful to your own credibility.

Unless you've lived with a vet as a spouse or a parent or have spent years in the company of them, then the only thing you have to go on as the "truth" is what the politicians want you to believe it is. My husband won't talk about the war except with other vets...and what they talk about would chill you. But, a lot of it would warm you. Their memories of the Vietnamese people in general is fond. I believe the claims of 2 or 3 of the swifties were questionable. What about the other several hundred? What about the POWs? They didn't find a dozen of Kerry's Winter Soldier group that told even a modicum of truth.

We'll never see it the same way. I just hope the vets will keep opening up and letting us help them with their pain. I'm afraid that Kerry and his campaign has undercut them again and they'll never be relieved of the hurt they carry. Our loss.

Unless you've lived with a vet as a spouse or a parent or have spent years in the company of them, then the only thing you have to go on as the "truth" is what the politicians want you to believe it is. My husband won't talk about the war except with other vets...and what they talk about would chill you. But, a lot of it would warm you. Their memories of the Vietnamese people in general is fond. I believe the claims of 2 or 3 of the swifties were questionable. What about the other several hundred? What about the POWs? They didn't find a dozen of Kerry's Winter Soldier group that told even a modicum of truth.

We'll never see it the same way. I just hope the vets will keep opening up and letting us help them with their pain. I'm afraid that Kerry and his campaign has undercut them again and they'll never be relieved of the hurt they carry. Our loss.I have very close friends who are vets, and I've spent years with them talking about everything from their good memories to their horror stories. I've also got good friends who went to jail rather than go into the army, who stood up against the draft and the war and all it stood for, and they've got their own stories.

Again--I've never said that these soldiers shouldn't say what they felt. I've only said that anyone watching this particular film should watch it in the particular political context in which it was created. It was a political hatchet job. That doesn't make it inaccurate--it just makes it politically motivated.

I have very close friends who are vets, and I've spent years with them talking about everything from their good memories to their horror stories. I've also got good friends who went to jail rather than go into the army, who stood up against the draft and the war and all it stood for, and they've got their own stories.

Again--I've never said that these soldiers shouldn't say what they felt. I've only said that anyone watching this particular film should watch it in the particular political context in which it was created. It was a political hatchet job. That doesn't make it inaccurate--it just makes it politically motivated.

You have friends that are vets. Haven't yo ever noticed they're "different" and wondered why?

So its political intentions should overshadow its accuracy? Wasn't the political intention behind it to show the true character of a presidential candidate? Can we ask our troops to follow a commander in chief who they don't trust?

Damn! SC just scored! Another loss for the hogs. :mad:

Watch it.
If you didn't know any better, you would think Kerry caused the Protests, Kerry caused them to be tortured, Kerry caused the war to go on.....

First, I want to thank every one of you for your input. I will watch it, and as I am a Viet Nam vet. I served with the B-52 bombers in Thailand from March 1972 to March 1973 and spent a total of 26 years in the Air Force. I want to thank Zooke especially and I feel compelled to answer The Black Forest.

I do know better, and I know that although Kerry did not cause the protests he, Jane Fonda, and others encouraged, supported, and provoked them. I will not deny their right to have done so, but as a direct result of their actions, thousands of Americans and Vietnamese died. How?

First of all General Giap stated that the NVA were ready to surrender early in the war, but the protests in the US gave them the hope to go on fighting. Read about it here http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/7624/Generals/giap.htm. Second, because of the protests the politicians got involved and did not allow the military to do what we were trained to do, fight the war to win. We could not invade the North. For a long time we could not bomb military targets in the North. It wasn’t until President Nixon ordered us to bomb Hanoi that we were able to end the war.

Kerry could very well have caused the POW’s to be tortured. He stated that Americans were committing atrocities in Vietnam, and the North wanted the American prisoners to sign confessions that they had committed atrocities. The North certainly were not benevolent in their attempts to get those prisoners to sign confessions. They dam sure did not give them beer and BBQ to convince the prisoners to sign.

Yes, Kerry’s actions did cause the war to go on longer than it should.

Someone asked, why we didn’t speak out before, and others say “Stolen Honor” was politically motivated. I am sure that it was politically motivated and those veterans and others did not want to see Kerry elected President. As to speaking out, we did speak out before, but no one would listen. No one cared.

Oh! Yes, were advised to change into “civvies” as soon as we possibly could when we came back. Knowing you might be spit on, called a “baby killer,” or worse was one hell of a homecoming.

To all the Viet Nam vets, and to all vets: Thank you for your service to our country.

I just hope the vets will keep opening up and letting us help them with their pain. I'm afraid that Kerry and his campaign has undercut them again and they'll never be relieved of the hurt they carry. Our loss.

Well said. The wound that was healing has been opened up again. :(

First, I want to thank every one of you for your input. I will watch it, and as I am a Viet Nam vet. I served with the B-52 bombers in Thailand from March 1972 to March 1973 and spent a total of 26 years in the Air Force. I want to thank Zooke especially and I feel compelled to answer The Black Forest.

I do know better, and I know that although Kerry did not cause the protests he, Jane Fonda, and others encouraged, supported, and provoked them. I will not deny their right to have done so, but as a direct result of their actions, thousands of Americans and Vietnamese died. How?

First of all General Giap stated that the NVA were ready to surrender early in the war, but the protests in the US gave them the hope to go on fighting. Read about it here http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/7624/Generals/giap.htm. Second, because of the protests the politicians got involved and did not allow the military to do what we were trained to do, fight the war to win. We could not invade the North. For a long time we could not bomb military targets in the North. It wasn’t until President Nixon ordered us to bomb Hanoi that we were able to end the war.

Kerry could very well have caused the POW’s to be tortured. He stated that Americans were committing atrocities in Vietnam, and the North wanted the American prisoners to sign confessions that they had committed atrocities. The North certainly were not benevolent in their attempts to get those prisoners to sign confessions. They dam sure did not give them beer and BBQ to convince the prisoners to sign.

Yes, Kerry’s actions did cause the war to go on longer than it should.

Someone asked, why we didn’t speak out before, and others say “Stolen Honor” was politically motivated. I am sure that it was politically motivated and those veterans and others did not want to see Kerry elected President. As to speaking out, we did speak out before, but no one would listen. No one cared.

Oh! Yes, were advised to change into “civvies” as soon as we possibly could when we came back. Knowing you might be spit on, called a “baby killer,” or worse was one hell of a homecoming.

To all the Viet Nam vets, and to all vets: Thank you for your service to our country.

Thank you Celtlund. So many on here claim to intimately know Nam vets, but they don't express the same feelings or memories that my husband and friends do. Most of our friends and contemporaries have Vietnam in their history (and memories) and not one of them support Kerry's actions at that time. My husband, Pedie, says to tell you he salutes you. Hooorahhhh. Marines!