NationStates Jolt Archive

... is so disliked in general? Or why does it appear to be?


*Really Im just wanting to get your guys thoughts on the subject. I dont want any flames or such. I just want to see what others think.*

No one dislikes America. We just dislike your foreign policy. Alot.

And personally, i prefer burger king to macdonalds :D

No one dislikes America. We just dislike your foreign policy. Alot.

And personally, i prefer burger king to macdonalds :D


heh Me too!
Whopper for the win!!


But that's pretty much what i meant. THanks for the post

Oh my God this is going to be a nasty one...

To try and sum it up befor the fires are fanned it is very simply because:

a) People are scared of America's power in the world today, politically, economically and militarily.

b) It is good to feel intellectually superior, this is why the 'average american' is portrayed as overweight and stupid to the rest of the world - America is seen as the butt of many jokes about ham-fistedness and and pig headedness.

c) The recent actions of the American CiC have been offensive to the rest of the world - especially the insults and threats leveled at certain nations which mirror the flames on this board in a strange and worrying way.

d) A certain amount of jealousy as to the way in which the middle and upper class of America live in, whilst hypocratically stating that the wealth is unfairly divided amongst the top 20%.

I offer this as some sort of explanation, one that is stripped bare of any political or petty emotional standards that are mere smokescreens to obscure these main issues.

It sucks that so many Europeans hate America when the majority of Americans like Europe. For example if I went to paris and people foundout that im American then they would probably treat me like crap however if a french guy went to New York City and people foundout that he was french no one would care or treat him badly.....

Thanks! And hopefully flames will be absent from the topic! Im asking for thoughts here not propaganda.

Yeah, that does suck because if a foreigner did come around these parts, I'd be like 'Dude... let me buy you a beer.' Yet god forbid I end up in Europe or somewhere, people will go out of their way to be rude. It's simple, really. If you live in New York and want to go on vacation, try Omaha. It's Paris without the French.

There is an arrogance about america that is wholly unintentional. (Despite the fact that half of americans dont realise that living in the same town of twenty huts for your whole life is deeply sad). Its perfectly understandable, especially as in some ways they do deserve t do so. However, they seem to thnk that just because they have a large amount of power they can control the rest of the world and bring it under their control.

the cultural ethos of america is intensely annoying.

the sort of thing is when clinton decided america was going to put an end to "violence in Ulster". Now, considering Americans paid for the IRA, this is hypocritical, and they had no reason to come and mess with our affairs.

America refuses to ratify the Kyoto agreement.

America does not always abide by the geneva convention.

America elects for president a psychotic moron who cant speak properly, backed up by an AG who spies on you, an ex-oil baron among others, and is going to cause a modern dark age. (My favourite Bushism: "the terrrrists <sic> are rerrserrcesful <sic>, but so are we. th' terrrists <sic> are alweys <sic> saarching <sic> for new ways to harm our currntri <sic>; and so are we.")

America is lacking in humor. (not that there arent many funny american things, Mark twain in particular, and The Simpsons )

America is forcing its culture on everyone else.

America has yet to ratify a war which i did support, and which now everyone is committed to see through, but it becomes more and more apparent that the war actually was fought over oil.

america invented halloween.

Americans are insular, despite all these things, and numerous wars.


These are jus some fo the opinions that I have heard recently. Personally i don't hate america; after all, you invented sticky barbeque sauce :cool: and Bill bryson, john steinbeck, Robert Heinlein and Mark Twain. :) oh, and Yosemite is in america. (although outrageously buggered up by your hopeless Parks and Forestry administration)

Yeah, that does suck because if a foreigner did come around these parts, I'd be like 'Dude... let me buy you a beer.' Yet god forbid I end up in Europe or somewhere, people will go out of their way to be rude. It's simple, really.

You call that beer? ;) come to britain, thats where real beer comes from.

And dont judge Europe by the French. The french are rude to everyone; maybe you should invade that instead of iran! (Please note mr ashcroft and your frieds at the homeland security lair or NSA at fort meade, who are no doubt reading this. Chills the blood doesnt it?)

You call that beer? ;) come to britain, thats where real beer comes from.

Been to Britain and the guys I was working with took me out and got me nice and plastered. Whenever I say foreigners, I rarely mean it to be England, so sorry for the confusion. England is golden, even when we disagree.

america invented halloween.


LOL the BASTARDS!!

Thats nice to hear! you see everyone? Anglo-american
friendships are perfectly feasible! ;)

america invented halloween.


LOL the BASTARDS!!

Licensed extortion. where does it end? With giving out money under threat of force? id make it illegal!

You call that beer? ;) come to britain, thats where real beer comes from.

And dont judge Europe by the French. The french are rude to everyone; maybe you should invade that instead of iran! (Please note mr ashcroft and your frieds at the homeland security lair or NSA at fort meade, who are no doubt reading this. Chills the blood doesnt it?)



Come to Portugal, its where the British come to drink beer, and they know :D

Don't worry, bits of Europe hate each other just as much as they all hate america, very few nations have enough good will to their neighbours.

Having said that, Americas foreign policy IS more offensive than most, and being a large nation it does have a large number of obnoxious and vocal people, thats simply the price you pay.

Any Americans here have a specific european country that they like the most?

I personally like Great Britain and Germany the same and cant decide which I like better. Though my favorite european city would have to be Vienna in Austria.

Come to Portugal, its where the British come to drink beer, and they know :D

nah its San Miguel from Spain that I love on holiday mate!

Don't worry, bits of Europe hate each other just as much as they all hate america, very few nations have enough good will to their neighbours.

Having said that, Americas foreign policy IS more offensive than most, and being a large nation it does have a large number of obnoxious and vocal people, thats simply the price you pay.


That reminds me...... is any other nation willing to take in Michael Moore??

PLEASE!

Don't worry, bits of Europe hate each other just as much as they all hate america, very few nations have enough good will to their neighbours.


Rubbish!

I hate France much more than I america! (don't hate america at all; but don't get me started on France :mad: )

I can attempt to tell you why so many South Americans dislike the US.

1) You propped up opressive regimes that killed thousands of thier countrymen during the Cold War, you may say it was needed, but if it was your father/brother/mother/child who was "purged" or imprisoned or beaten, then I doubt you would say the same kind of thing. And you still do it in Colombia to an extent by overlooking the President's horrific human rights record, I mean, there are reports of him denying food to his own population for God's sake.

2) You still cannot keep your nose out of thier buisness, if a radical is elected, it is not your concern.

3) The US and IMF are seen as having forced economic liberalisation on countries way too fast and destroying their standard of living and economy. Eg. Argentina followed the USA and IMF's guidelines and thier economy was decimated, whereas, for example, Uganda ignored IMF threats and has done much better than the neighbours that followed IMF advice; but now I digress to Africa.

I am sure there are other reasons too detailed and too deep running to go into here.

America refuses to ratify the Kyoto agreement.

Yeah, we refuse to kill ourselves Economically...

Other than that and the World Court thing (We don't sign it because our men aren't gaurenteed their constitutional rights)

That reminds me...... is any other nation willing to take in Michael Moore??

PLEASE!

I doubt it. why dont you send him to a country you have control over. Like England... hey wait a minute! Dammit!

When you guys talk about things like this it makes me wonder.....why do MOST not ALL hate American People? I mean if your going be mad at America why be mad at the people? It should be the government that you hate not the people. I mean its not their fault they were born there, also most Americans I've come to learn actually are pretty nice and friendly.

Yeah, we refuse to kill ourselves Economically...

Other than that and the World Court thing (We don't sign it because our men aren't gaurenteed their constitutional rights)

Then cease the excuses like "its not feasible" and just say point blank to the rest of the world: "global warming is a secondary consideration against the growth of our already colossal economy". This may answer the thread itself, i think.

When you guys talk about things like this it makes me wonder.....why do MOST not ALL hate American People? I mean if your going be mad at America why be mad at the people? It should be the government that you hate not the people. I mean its not their fault they were born there, also most Americans I've come to learn actually are pretty nice and friendly.

An excellent point.

Yeah, we refuse to kill ourselves Economically...)


Yeah, because the countries who have ratified are completely borked...

I am an Australian of Irish descent, don't talk to me about your crappy beer, come down here or at least go to Ireland, the two nations of the master brewers. (note: by good Aussie beer, i don't mean foster's)

Castlemaine! Lovely!

Then cease the excuses like "its not feasible" and just say point blank to the rest of the world: "global warming is a secondary consideration against the growth of our already colossal economy". This may answer the thread itself, i think.

Look, our Government cannot simply tell corporations to comply to the Kyoto Treaty. Having government regulation of that magnitude has to be unconstitutional.

Don't get me started on Affirmative Action and a shitload of Regulation in business. Damn Socialist Democrats....

That reminds me...... is any other nation willing to take in Michael Moore??

PLEASE!

It's not his fault he tells the truth. Listen, I want to broker a deal between the republicans and the democrats. The republicans will stop lying about democrats and the democrats will stop telling the truth about republicans.

Everyone else? Vote libertarian.

Then stop trying to worm out of it and admit point blank you are not able to do anything. (to imperial puerto rico)

It's not his fault he tells the truth. Listen, I want to broker a deal between the republicans and the democrats. The republicans will stop lying about democrats and the democrats will stop telling the truth about republicans.

Everyone else? Vote libertarian.

I'd like the Libertarians if it weren't for thier idiotic stance on Drugs. All drugs legal, what morons...

Yeah, we refuse to kill ourselves Economically...

Other than that and the World Court thing (We don't sign it because our men aren't gaurenteed their constitutional rights)


That argument is falacious. A truck load of countries have signed that treaty, and they haven't died. Actually, by NOT signing the treaty, US companies have an unfair advantage over others (just as China as no work laws, and that constitutes an unfair advantage over the US).

Mostly, the argument of "it will kill our industry" is made by old, polluting industries that don't want to spend money improving their infrastructure. And dude, that isnt necessarely an advantage. Actually, that means that while others change their productive structures, for more clean, but also more technological efficient production ways, your companies stick with old methods of production, which in the long run, can be an heavy toll to pay. Look at Airbus vs Boeing (discounting the huge subsidies and tax breaks each govemnet gives to its companies :p ).

It's not his fault he tells the truth. Listen, I want to broker a deal between the republicans and the democrats. The republicans will stop lying about democrats and the democrats will stop telling the truth about republicans.

Everyone else? Vote libertarian.

I think Wyntersdark is referring tothe fact that Moore is almost as stupid and pathetic as Bush, and has no right to criticise anyone.

I am an Australian of Irish descent, don't talk to me about your crappy beer, come down here or at least go to Ireland, the two nations of the master brewers. (note: by good Aussie beer, i don't mean foster's)


heh glad you added that note.... I'd prefer sewage to fosters!

Look, our Government cannot simply tell corporations to comply to the Kyoto Treaty. Having government regulation of that magnitude has to be unconstitutional.

Don't get me started on Affirmative Action and a shitload of Regulation in business. Damn Socialist Democrats....
So you'd rather have corporations stomp all over the non-rich people & wreck the environment? Believe it or not, if the government doesn't step in, most corporations don't give a damn what happens as long as they make money.

Whatever guys.

The Kyoto Treaty thankfully will never be signed. I'd love to see a DNC President in the future try to get that passed in a GOP Controlled Congress for humor. And by the looks of it, by the time the DNC ever controls Congress, more environment friendly tactics will have been found.

Christ, what is it with the DNC lately? They....are....collapsing.

I don't dislike America. I don't dislike any country because that is far too generalised. I hate the prevalent (but not all consuming) idea in many Americans that they are the greatest nation on Earth and morally justified in everything they do. I also hate neocon ideologies like the ones advocated by the current government.
The traditonal political ideology of France is very economically left-wing and also pretty pacifistic (not cowardly, pacifistic, honest!). I love this about France, even though I'm not too keen on the current government.
I love American food, a lot of American TV and films and the fact we speak the same language.
I hate French food, they make some fair films but French language lessons bore me.
A country is the sum of its peoples' attitudes, not vice-versa. I do not hate Americans, just the ones who think like the Republicans and the Constitutionalists, and even then I only hate their political views.

Mikorlias of Imardeavia

I think Wyntersdark is referring tothe fact that Moore is almost as stupid and pathetic as Bush, and has no right to criticise anyone.


Well sorta.... I dont really like the man because he really doesnt care or believe in the things he says. All he is looking for is making money and having his face everywhere.. he's a hypocrit!


*mind the spelling please ;) *

Well sorta.... I dont really like the man because he really doesnt care or believe in the things he says. All he is looking for is making money and having his face everywhere.. he's a hypocrit!


*mind the spelling please ;) *

fair enough. I pretty much think he is a moaning wate of space, making money out of everyone else's complaints.

I also hate neocon ideologies like the ones advocated by the current government.

As do I.

I wish our Country would go back to what it was in the 1930s prior to WWII.

:(

Non-Intervention is the way to go damnit!

As do I.

I wish our Country would go back to what it was in the 1930s prior to WWII.

:(

Non-Intervention is the way to go damnit!

Look what happened to Neville Chamberlain shortly afterwards when he tried that against hitler. It wont change your terrorist problem. They are completely crazy.

I wish our Country would go back to what it was in the 1930s prior to WWII.

:(

Non-Intervention is the way to go damnit!

Well, lessee, if we did that...where you do think Peurto Rico would be right now...?

I have ZERO interest in going back...that's what the country's doing right now, and it's a problem. There are ways to be part of the world without doing quite so much damage to it. That's what I would go for.

Look what happened to Neville Chamberlain shortly afterwards when he tried that against hitler. It wont change your terrorist problem. They are completely crazy.

True. If it wasnt America it would be someone else.

Look what happened to Neville Chamberlain shortly afterwards when he tried that against hitler. It wont change your terrorist problem. They are completely crazy.

We wouldn't have a terrorist problem if we were still Non-Intervention after WWII.

Ok, here is the way I would have handled WWII if I were president.

I would have done the same as FDR, not interfere in the war in Europe. And when Pearl Harbor happened, I would have sent troops to the Pacific and the pacific only. The only thing that would have gotten me to send troops to europe is the fact Germany declared war on the USA.

I don't want to sound Nationalist, but I believe America is for America only. Not America for the citizens of Kosovo (We we go into that war) or America for the freedom of Iraqis.

I cannot describe the hate I have for the USA acting like the world police.

People hate the US GOVERNMENT when they tell other nations how to run internal affairs.

Kinda like how the US reacted to the Guardian campaign....

... is so disliked in general? Or why does it appear to be?


*Really Im just wanting to get your guys thoughts on the subject. I dont want any flames or such. I just want to see what others think.*

I moved back from Europe after living there for about five years cause my Dad worked for Syngenta (agricultural company). Anyways, I really think the reason they can not stand us is
1. We are a very succesfuly and powerful nation
2. Most governments in Europe are half-socialist
3. Widespread secularism is triggering hate to the principles on which America was built.
4. They like having someone to hate.

I think America has it pretty hard sometimes.

They DO something to influence the world they take heat.
They DON'T do something they take the heat!
Lose/Lose if ya ask me

2) You still cannot keep your nose out of thier buisness, if a radical is elected, it is not your concern.
Umm... If that radical is a threat to US security, it is their buissiness. Otherwise, as an American myself, I'd prefer to say out of these wars.

Also, although I do not believe America is the greates nation (That title is for Britain ;) ) I think it should be seen as sort of a mix of many countries, and should be judged by its peoples, not its governent, as every single one of us are from another part of the world entirely. My anscestors are from Ireland.

Many poor countries also do not like the US's Economy, as it has stood through wars and depressions. It is solid, whilst theirs is Imploded, or on the verge of it. How is that of any fault of Americas peoples, except that they work hard to keep it that way. Patriotism at its finest.

Other countries keep telling us to mind our own buissiness, but they cant seem to keep their noses out of ours. First we get presidents who are isolationists, and countries complain we need to be more of a part of the international scene, and now when we have Internationalists, they want us to butt out.

There is an arrogance about america that is wholly unintentional. (Despite the fact that half of americans dont realise that living in the same town of twenty huts for your whole life is deeply sad)...the cultural ethos of america is intensely annoying.

Talk about arrogance! This from EUro-trash who claims to know which lifestyle and culture are "best." That's the definition of arrogance. Take the beam out of your own eye.
the sort of thing is when clinton decided america was going to put an end to "violence in Ulster". Now, considering Americans paid for the IRA, this is hypocritical, and they had no reason to come and mess with our affairs.
Except that we were asked to come participate in the process, by both sides.

America refuses to ratify the Kyoto agreement.
So what?! We're not obligated to sign anything if we don't think it is in our national interest. YOUR country (wherever you live) does the same thing (because all countries do). Besides, global climate change due to human action is a myth; nothing but politically-motivated junk science.

America does not always abide by the geneva convention.
In isolated instances of individuals, this is true, but not systemicallly. Those individuals who violate the GC (in the process also violating our Uniform Code of Military Justice, because compliance with the GC is part of our military law) are prosecuted and punished by our system. When do the terrorists ever follow the GC? Never! Do their own people ever punish them for their crimes? NO! Does anyone ever punish them? NO!

America elects for president a psychotic moron who cant speak properly, backed up by an AG who spies on you, an ex-oil baron among others, and is going to cause a modern dark age. (My favourite Bushism: "the terrrrists <sic> are rerrserrcesful <sic>, but so are we. th' terrrists <sic> are alweys <sic> saarching <sic> for new ways to harm our currntri <sic>; and so are we.")
And here we have the epitome of EUro-trash arrogance. Because America didn't agree with their choice, our President and our people are stupid. How do you feel knowing that your arrogant meddling in our election motivated undecided voters to go to the polls and vote for Bush? You shot yourself in the foot on that one!

America is forcing its culture on everyone else.
Forcing? No one holds you at gunpoint and makes you buy Coca-Cola or eat at McDonalds. No one twists your arm to make you see an American movie. Your statement is a big, steaming pile of bullcrap! You're just pissed because the world prefers our culture to yours, by choice.

America has yet to ratify a war which i did support, and which now everyone is committed to see through, but it becomes more and more apparent that the war actually was fought over oil.
More bullcrap. If we're taking Iraqi oil, why is the price of oil in America still so high? You didn't support WWII? Which we fought and won on the part of the entire world.

These are jus some fo the opinions that I have heard recently. Personally i don't hate america
More bullcrap. You DO hate America, your statements make that obvious. Your claim not to hate America is just another insult to our intelligence. But you have to say that, because EUro-trash only care that others think they're "nice", so you need to rationalize away your hatred.

Umm... If that radical is a threat to US security, it is their buissiness. Otherwise, as an American myself, I'd prefer to say out of these wars.

Also, although I do not believe America is the greates nation (That title is for Britain ;) ) I think it should be seen as sort of a mix of many countries, and should be judged by its peoples, not its governent, as every single one of us are from another part of the world entirely. My anscestors are from Ireland.

Many poor countries also do not like the US's Economy, as it has stood through wars and depressions. It is solid, whilst theirs is Imploded, or on the verge of it. How is that of any fault of Americas peoples, except that they work hard to keep it that way. Patriotism at its finest.

Other countries keep telling us to mind our own buissiness, but they cant seem to keep their noses out of ours. First we get presidents who are isolationists, and countries complain we need to be more of a part of the international scene, and now when we have Internationalists, they want us to butt out.


Well put

Even New Talgania.... easy there buddy. This thread has done well with no flaming. These are peoples thoughts...i didnt ask for facts... so let be said without the name calling please!! But other than that ... thanks for the post :)

... is so disliked in general? Or why does it appear to be? *Really Im just wanting to get your guys thoughts on the subject. I dont want any flames or such. I just want to see what others think.*
I don't think America is disliked as much as the media in some other countries would lead you to believe.

I do, however, think there are a number of people who dislike our current policies, particularly our policies vis a vis Iraq. There are a variety of reasons for this, not the least of which is that many countries have a very high threshold to reach before they would consider military operations.

Another reason for some dislike of America is an inability to understand both our culture and our political processes. This, surprisingly, is also true of a number of our own people.

Well put
Thanks, and without flaming might I add.

Even New Talgania- Settle down, if you want to make a better arguement, dont use curses. It makes you sound better.

Many poor countries also do not like the US's Economy, as it has stood through wars and depressions. It is solid, whilst theirs is Imploded, or on the verge of it. How is that of any fault of Americas peoples, except that they work hard to keep it that way. Patriotism at its finest.

They also do not like the US and its companies telling them they will only get aid if they open up thier economies along the lines of total free for all economics, that the US itself refuses to follow. They demand the dropping of various tariffs, subsadies etc. that the US would never agree to drop in a million years. And then, when thier economies fail who stands there to blame for forcing the arms of thier Governments to take these policies up. It may be partly thier Governments mismanagement in part, but who are the people going to blame? The US and IMF. Argentina followed the IMF and US reccomendations and thier economy crashes due to the US forcing ideology on them far too fast. People were hungry, unemployed and pissed off, with high inflation wiping out savings to boot. That is one reason there is so much animosoty felt.

Even New Talgania.... easy there buddy. This thread has done well with no flaming. These are peoples thoughts...i didnt ask for facts... so let be said without the name calling please!! But other than that ... thanks for the post :)

Yeah, well, every EUro-trash post I see here calls Americans ignorant, stupid, uncultured hicks, etc. They put down our people, our government, our culture, everything. I'm sick of their arrogance and condescension, and the gloves are off! And their "thoughts" are big, steaming piles of bullcrap; they've obviously never even been to America, and don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Well, going back to beer, I must admit that we simply have shitty beer in America. Granted, you come to like Budweiser or anything else over time, but the darkest we have is Guiness. We need to take lessons from the Brits and Belgians. Dammit, I want some decent beer....


And, the idea of corporations stomping on poor people is simply ludicrous. One facet of a market economy is that not everyone can have a job. Not only that, but the people who do not have a job are not going to be well provided for. Therefore, we leave it to the government to handle those who either can't or won't help themselves. However, I think that the government exists only to help them get back on their feet and get a job. Obviously this system works, because even with one of the largest populations in the world, our unemployment rate is at 5.4% while Socialist nations such as France and Germany lag far behind at 9.3% and 10.1% respectively.

And, not to be a rude American, but wouldn't you consider America to be the greatest nation on earth right now, by virtue of the fact that it has the strongest economy, the strongest military, and donates more money to humanitarian aid, as well as supporting single-handedly 1/4 of the UN's budget, when most Americans think the UN is worthless anyways? I'd say that qualifies it. You may dislike us, which I can understand. After all, I wouldn't want to admit that Japan was quickly catching up with and overtaking America in the field of technology, and doing it because we rebuilt their economy in the first place. It's all about National pride. Everyone wants to believe that their nation is the strongest or smartest, and if someone else makes that claim it sparks instant controversy. As I said, I would hate to admit that, for instance, the Belgians make better beer than us. For that matter, nearly everyone makes better beer than us. Except France. And Russia totally pwns our vodka. Our whiskey is our only claim to fame.

Apollina, it is not always someone elses fault when stuff like that happens, I do not claim the US was not partially to blame, but many countries govenments see the US style of economy as a quick and easy way to get rich, but are not willing to take the harder steps. It would be like building a house with no foundation, no support, it will eventually crumble.

Our whiskey is our only claim to fame.

Ha! You call that whiskey, you should go to Scotland or Ireland ;)

Well, going back to beer, I must admit that we simply have shitty beer in America. Granted, you come to like Budweiser or anything else over time, but the darkest we have is Guiness. We need to take lessons from the Brits and Belgians. Dammit, I want some decent beer....


And, the idea of corporations stomping on poor people is simply ludicrous. One facet of a market economy is that not everyone can have a job. Not only that, but the people who do not have a job are not going to be well provided for. Therefore, we leave it to the government to handle those who either can't or won't help themselves. However, I think that the government exists only to help them get back on their feet and get a job. Obviously this system works, because even with one of the largest populations in the world, our unemployment rate is at 5.4% while Socialist nations such as France and Germany lag far behind at 9.3% and 10.1% respectively.

And, not to be a rude American, but wouldn't you consider America to be the greatest nation on earth right now, by virtue of the fact that it has the strongest economy, the strongest military, and donates more money to humanitarian aid, as well as supporting single-handedly 1/4 of the UN's budget, when most Americans think the UN is worthless anyways? I'd say that qualifies it. You may dislike us, which I can understand. After all, I wouldn't want to admit that Japan was quickly catching up with and overtaking America in the field of technology, and doing it because we rebuilt their economy in the first place. It's all about National pride. Everyone wants to believe that their nation is the strongest or smartest, and if someone else makes that claim it sparks instant controversy. As I said, I would hate to admit that, for instance, the Belgians make better beer than us. For that matter, nearly everyone makes better beer than us. Except France. And Russia totally pwns our vodka. Our whiskey is our only claim to fame.
Good post! I agree about the beer, btw. There use to be a beer from the Philipines called San Miguel that was wonderful! I can't find it here in NC, but it may still be offered on the West coast. :)

Yeah, well, every EUro-trash post I see hear calls Americans ignorant, stupid, uncultured hicks, etc. They put down our people, our government, our culture, everything. I'm sick of their arrogance and condescension, and the gloves are off! And their "thoughts" are big, steaming piles of bullcrap; they've obviously never even been to America, and don't have a clue what they are talking about.


And thats understandable for you to feel that way. But I asked for thier thoughts on why they feel that way. I really dont want this thread closed because of flaming so lets play nice :D

They also do not like the US and its companies telling them they will only get aid if they open up thier economies along the lines of total free for all economics, that the US itself refuses to follow. They demand the dropping of various tariffs, subsadies etc. that the US would never agree to drop in a million years. And then, when thier economies fail who stands there to blame for forcing the arms of thier Governments to take these policies up. It may be partly thier Governments mismanagement in part, but who are the people going to blame? The US and IMF. Argentina followed the IMF and US reccomendations and thier economy crashes due to the US forcing ideology on them far too fast. People were hungry, unemployed and pissed off, with high inflation wiping out savings to boot. That is one reason there is so much animosoty felt.
You people need to learn the meaning of the word "force." The US does not force international aid on anyone (and BTW, we're not the IMF, that's comprised of a lot of countries. Would you say the same things about them?). If your country does not like the terms of a trade agreement, DON'T SIGN IT! Don't want the strings attached to international aid? DON'T TAKE IT! After all, if Americans are as stupid as you say, their goods and services must be lousy. If you think that, DON'T BUY THEM!

I am an Australian of Irish descent, don't talk to me about your crappy beer, come down here or at least go to Ireland, the two nations of the master brewers. (note: by good Aussie beer, i don't mean foster's)
Crown and James Boag's!

From a South African point of view, on this whole US issue. We basically don't like foreign policy. A few examples below.
1) Supporting the apartheid regime and funding unjust cross-border wars against "communist" forces.
2) The whole conditional loans thing, the IMF and World Bank, making governments privatise industry and cut back on welfare and such.
3) The war in Iraq.

Apollina, it is not always someone elses fault when stuff like that happens, I do not claim the US was not partially to blame, but many countries govenments see the US style of economy as a quick and easy way to get rich, but are not willing to take the harder steps. It would be like building a house with no foundation, no support, it will eventually crumble.

I didnt say it was, what I said was that that is what it looks to an angry public who are looking for a figure on which to thrust blame. And the US does and has forced the arm of some nations to liberalise far too quickly due to your Government's feelings that free trade is the way to go. Various people (and high up people) in the World Bank have stated as much, they have been on the ground there and in the meetings seeing it happen.

Crown and James Boag's!

From a South African point of view, on this whole US issue. We basically don't like foreign policy. A few examples below.
1) Supporting the apartheid regime and funding unjust cross-border wars against "communist" forces.
2) The whole conditional loans thing, the IMF and World Bank, making governments privatise industry and cut back on welfare and such.
3) The war in Iraq.


Just curious, like that surprising, but would the Iraq thing had been as big a deal if it werent for the oil thing?

Crown and James Boag's!

From a South African point of view, on this whole US issue. We basically don't like foreign policy. A few examples below.
1) Supporting the apartheid regime and funding unjust cross-border wars against "communist" forces.
2) The whole conditional loans thing, the IMF and World Bank, making governments privatise industry and cut back on welfare and such.
3) The war in Iraq.

Um, since when were the IMF and World Bank the same thing as the USA?

You people need to learn the meaning of the word "force." The US does not force international aid on anyone (and BTW, we're not the IMF, that's comprised of a lot of countries. Would you say the same things about them?). If your country does not like the terms of a trade agreement, DON'T SIGN IT! Don't want the strings attached to international aid? DON'T TAKE IT! After all, if Americans are as stupid as you say, their goods and services must be lousy. If you think that, DON'T BUY THEM!

Erm... you can check all my posts if you like but I am pretty sure I have never said Americans are stupid, or that the goods and services are "lousy".

Unfortunatly many nations will see the need to sign it as otherwise they have no food, or medical supplies or any cash to do anything at all really. And the IMF works with the US Government and shares similar ideologies in terms of economics.

I didnt say it was, what I said was that that is what it looks to an angry public who are looking for a figure on which to thrust blame. And the US does and has force the arm of some nations to liberalise far too quickly due to your Government's feelings that free trade is the way to go. Various people (and high up people) in the World Bank have stated as much, they have been on the ground there and in the meeting seeing it happen.
Into which country did the US put troops, tanks, aircraft, etc. to force said country to "liberalise far too quickly due to [our] Government's feelings that free trade is the way to go?"

Into which country did the US put troops, tanks, aircraft, etc. to force said country to "liberalise far too quickly due to [our] Government's feelings that free trade is the way to go?"

As I have said, they don't need to and have not. They just offer tied aid, the threat of with-held (sp?) food, medical, technological, military etc aid can be somewhat of an arm-twister.

I partially agree with you, the US needs to become more patient with those things. Unfotunately, our social views are, EVERYTHING MUST BE DONE FAST. Of which I dissagree, as many corperations are sacraficing workers with much skill, with those who can do their job faster than the last guy. Which, I dissagree with. The area I live in is very laid back, which is one of the reasons I live here. The motto round here is, A job done well, is 10 times better than a job halfassed.

Well, going back to beer, I must admit that we simply have shitty beer in America. Granted, you come to like Budweiser or anything else over time, but the darkest we have is Guiness. We need to take lessons from the Brits and Belgians. Dammit, I want some decent beer....


.

You need to try Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. It'll grow hair on your chest even if you're one of the Olsen twins!
http://www.sierra-nevada.com/beers/paleale.html

Erm... you can check all my posts if you like but I am pretty sure I have never said Americans are stupid, or that the goods and services are "lousy".
Many other America-haters in these forums have. They denigrate everything American, from our intelligence to our food. If they feel that way, why does the entire world keep buying our goods?
Unfortunatly many nations will see the need to sign it as otherwise they have no food, or medical supplies or any cash to do anything at all really.That's not force. They have a choice: the status quo or the terms of aid. No one forces their decision. Obviously these hypothetical nations preferred the terms of the aid, else they should not have accepted it.
And the IMF works with the US Government and shares similar ideologies in terms of economics.
Yes, but they are two separate entities. You talk as though they were one and the same.

There use to be a beer from the Philipines called San Miguel that was wonderful!
San Miguel is freely available here. Huzzah!

Um, since when were the IMF and World Bank the same thing as the USA?
I never said they were, although I probably did word that badly. It's an association that exists for people. And the US government does tend to lean in favour of privatisation and stuff. I'll admit I'm not sure how much pressure was put on the government though. Sorry, it's late here and I should really be in bed.

but would the Iraq thing had been as big a deal if it werent for the oil thing?
I think it was the unilateral action that pissed people off, and the disregard shown for the UN, weapons inspections and such. Also the whole formation of the coaliion was suss. Other than Britain and Australia, most of the countries were coaxed in by the prospect of economic gain.

As far as anyone calling Americans stupid, though noone in this thread has, look at it this way.

We are, but then again so is every other person on the face of the planet. If we were as smart as we'd like to think this world would be perfect and everyone would get along. But since this is not the case we ARE all stupid in one way or another..... no reason to get upset about it... sticks and stones!!

That's not force. They have a choice: the status quo or the terms of aid. No one forces their decision. Obviously these hypothetical nations preferred the terms of the aid, else they should not have accepted it.

Well, I am sure if it is a choice between letting a portion of your population have little or no food, and signing an agreement reluctantly then I am sure they will sign in order to try to stop the suffereing of thier people. ANd if that is not on thier minds then I am sure that the fact that in an unstable country (which a lot of these are) with a poor and hungry population governments have a tendency to be attacked by rebels may sway the vote.


Yes, but they are two separate entities. You talk as though they were one and the same.

They work together, or have done in many cases, especially closer to home in Argentina and other Latin countries.

EDIT - You try eating little or nothing for a while, if you were half starved and the only way to get food was somebody saying "you give me your every item in your bedroom for this food that will keep you alive", what would you do? Die? Or reluctantly take the offer.

(a poor analogy I know but I am trying to think about my essay not this debate!)

First off, many Americans have been and are dissapointed with policies of our government. There is a lot of disagreement in American politics.

Just to point something out, it kind of applies to other events as well, it is somewhat metaphorical, it's about Kyoto:

The Kyoto Treaty is good in its general idea. Why?

Because. Global Warming is a problem, even the Pentagon said this--and they are pretty conservative on the whole. This is a fact whether you want to believe or not. Even if you refuse to believe it, you should be at least smart enough to know that it is better to be safe then sorry.

It is not about saving a few trees, or whatever you may think. It threatens to destabilize the planet. (Was this years rash of hurricanes in Florida a symptom?, possibly). I'm not going to go into Ecology to prove it here, read up if you don't believe me--we don't know the exact degree of the impact (do we want to find out?)

Okay great.

Why then did the U.S. reject the Kyoto Treaty?

Because. It is completely one-sided and unfair. Why?

It gives credit (this means money) to countries which have nuclear power plants (this benefits France more than anyone else in the entire world), and other forms of power (but these are ok). However, nuclear power is not entirely clean, it produces hard to dispose waste, and there are safety risks involved. Furthermore, nuclear power is expensive to develop and because the technology involved is frowned upon many smaller/poorer countries do not have this option at all.

It also gives credit to those who plant new growth forests to replace old growth forests. Admirable I agree, however in the short term this actually worstens the condition of the planet in terms of global warming (if you believe the scientists that complain of global warming most would agree on this), but in the long term it helps so it's ok to do it. But cutting down an old growth forest and then replacing it with a new growth forest is a terrible ecological loss and then a short term (40 years I think, if anyone knows any better let me know) deduction. The Kyoto Treaty did not address this flaw. It encourages what is bad.

There are also many other ways in which it is unfair to not only the U.S., but small developing nations (although for some it is highly beneficial).

However, when Bush rejected Kyoto he was very foolish. Why?

Because he essentially spat at all the hard work of so many countries to create a solution important to the entire world. All their work was in vain.

What he should have done was negotiate, change the Treaty so that it was less one-sided and perhaps compromised and won some concessions instead. Continuing negotiations could have been beneficial for all parties involved. Bush did not even give it chance. Why?

Frankly I don't know.


--------------------
As a side note:

Most Europeans I've met in Europe have been pretty cool with Americans, or at least me as a person. They just dislike the government policies. And some people love America openly without criticism (I wouldn't even go this far, though I do love my country). Some people, yes these exist, just don't care. I haven't met anyone who hated me just because I was American, well maybe one French guy in Paris (but you know there is that 1% of Parisians who are the biggest assholes on earth who go out of there way to piss you off--99% of Parisians are really nice, out of curiousity how do you guys stand that other 1% though, do they go to school or something, seriously its like they are experts).

[Just so you know I'm not taking out of my !%#@% whatever, I've spent a lot of time in Europe (mostly England and Poland), but I've been to a bunch of places were I spent significant time or at least a respectable touristy length of time.]

I know why Europeans sometimes don't like Americans.
1. Americans are loud (sorry guys, don't know where this comes from, our country is pretty big--this is me too, guilty as charged)
2. A lot of Americans travel and then act as if they've never left home. I don't know how to describe this well, you have to kind of know what I'm talking about from experience. This sometimes gets to me too, because I just want to tell people, not all Americans are like this (this is most common with large groups). [And no, I don't think myself superior to other Americans, maybe just a bit more open]
3. Too many Americans syndrome (some places have this more than others, your like, wait where am I now?)
4. Envious that you can't or won't act the same way, or won't be able to travel to American (no, I'm not saying this to gloat, just mentioning a possible underlying reason)

#2 is the most important. I always think that when I travel, or even when I don't travel, that I am like a mini-ambassador for my country, and what I say and do reflects upon my nation. This doesn't mean not letting loose and having fun, but rather just being more considerate and not so obnoxious (as some are--like some of the French with food)



Another Note:
I don't like Bush, but Mr. Chirac is hardly better. Big fan of Blair though, you Brits got it good this time around (remember no one's perfect). We've all had our fair share of good, and bad leaders.


Sorry for being so long.
Oh yeah, if you were insulted you weren't paying attention, or maybe you were? Take a look outside your window instead of flaming. ;)

As far as anyone calling Americans stupid, though noone in this thread has, look at it this way.

We are, but then again so is every other person on the face of the planet. If we were as smart as we'd like to think this world would be perfect and everyone would get along. But since this is not the case we ARE all stupid in one way or another..... no reason to get upset about it... sticks and stones!!
I realize and accept and admit this. My problem with the EUro-trash is, THEY DON'T.

America refuses to ratify the Kyoto agreement.


Has to do with the fact that the Kyoto agreement made standards a whole lot tougher for the US than it did for other countries. We just want an environemental treaty that is fair.

Well, I am sure if it is a choice between letting a portion of your population have little or no food, and signing an agreement reluctantly then I am sure they will sign in order to try to stop the suffereing of thier people. ANd if that is not on thier minds then I am sure that the fact that in an unstable country (which a lot of these are) with a poor and hungry population governments have a tendency to be attacked by rebels may sway the vote.



They work together, or have done in many cases, especially closer to home in Argentina and other Latin countries.

EDIT - You try eating little or nothing for a while, if you were half starved and the only way to get food was somebody saying "you give me your every item in your bedroom for this food that will keep you alive", what would you do? Die? Or reluctantly take the offer.

(a poor analogy I know but I am trying to think about my essay not this debate!)

Again, you are not understanding the definition of force. It's not America's fault those countries are sh*t-holes, it's their own fault. Are you saying that America is obligated to provide unconditional aid?

Hypothetical Country: "We're in bad shape, America, we need aid."
USA: "OK, we'd be happy to provide aid. Here are our conditions."
HC: "We don't want those conditions, we just want aid."
USA: "We're sorry, but those are our terms."
HC: "We don't accept your terms. We demand no terms! We demand unconditional aid!"
USA: "We're sorry; we can't help you, then."
HC: "Stop forcing us to take your aid! We demand no conditions or terms!"
USA: "Sorry, can't help you with that."
HC: "OK, we'll take your aid."
USA: "With our conditions?"
HC: "Yes, but you forced us!"

I realize and accept and admit this. My problem with the EUro-trash is, THEY DON'T.


Nah thats just the french!! :D

J/k guys heh

Again, you are not understanding the definition of force. It's not America's fault those countries are sh*t-holes, it's their own fault. Are you saying that America is obligated to provide unconditional aid?

Hypothetical Country: "We're in bad shape, America, we need aid."
USA: "OK, we'd be happy to provide aid. Here are our conditions."
HC: "We don't want those conditions, we just want aid."
USA: "We're sorry, but those are our terms."
HC: "We don't accept your terms. We demand no terms! We demand unconditional aid!"
USA: "We're sorry; we can't help you, then."
HC: "Stop forcing us to take your aid! We demand no conditions or terms!"
USA: "Sorry, can't help you with that."
HC: "OK, we'll take your aid."
USA: "With our conditions?"
HC: "Yes, but you forced us!"

That's actually a good thinking point

I was in Europe for a bit this summer. I took myself a visit to Germany, Austria and France, and besides some harrowing experiences on the Autobahn, I was pretty well treated, but to state this also requires the fact that I am an enlightened traveler.

I am well educated in German, and I learned a bit of French (which I have already forgot) for my trip. I only talked to a German one time in English and that was a dude at my hotel, who was serving drinks.

I had very few problems whilst in the German speaking countries, only one crazy old woman who went into a tirade about the US destroying her family during the war.

In France I had more problems because my French reached a level known as crappy. And there were that 1% who were dead set on killing everyone they met. But it was pretty good.

I think (hope) that Europeans can distinguish between the US government and it's citizens. I may be a Bush voter, but I dislike what some of my fellow Bush voters do to Europeans.

I much prefer a keep-our-noses-out-of-each-others-business policy. It makes everyone so much happier.

Again, you are not understanding the definition of force. It's not America's fault those countries are sh*t-holes, it's their own fault. Are you saying that America is obligated to provide unconditional aid?

Hypothetical Country: "We're in bad shape, America, we need aid."
USA: "OK, we'd be happy to provide aid. Here are our conditions."
HC: "We don't want those conditions, we just want aid."
USA: "We're sorry, but those are our terms."
HC: "We don't accept your terms. We demand no terms! We demand unconditional aid!"
USA: "We're sorry; we can't help you, then."
HC: "Stop forcing us to take your aid! We demand no conditions or terms!"
USA: "Sorry, can't help you with that."
HC: "OK, we'll take your aid."
USA: "With our conditions?"
HC: "Yes, but you forced us!"

THat is one of the better arguements in this thread.

Hmmmm.... Perhaps more like this

HC - Mr Ambassador we have a problem, our people have little food or medicines. Our infrastructure was destroyed when the West funded fascist rebels to fight the Commie ones funded by the Soviets; people are still running around with weapons you and Russia plyed them with during the 1970's. Could you help us?

USA - Sure we will help, but in return you must liberalise your economy within X years in these sectors, remove these rights from your people and allow almost unchecked operations from US conglomerates. Oh and remove those tariffs and subsadies for your local people (while we of course will keep ours up to stop you silly people importing goods that will undercut our companies)

HC - How about we liberalise them gradually thus not increasing inflation, or shocking our economy into near breaking point? That way, in the long term it will be better for us, building a more sustainable economy that will benefit our people as a whole.

USA - How about...not.

HC - But... our people will die; we will reform, just more slowly.

USA - Take it or leave it.

HC - Dilemma; take it and harm our economy in the long term, just postponing the current problem, yet our people will not starve or die in thier droves right now. Or reject it and risk civil unrest, death and poverty. Which to choose.

Hmmmm.... Perhaps more like this

HC - Mr Ambassador we have a problem, our people have little food or medicines. Our infrastructure was destroyed when the West funded fascist rebels to fight the Commie ones funded by the Soviets; people are still running around with weapons you and Russia plyed them with during the 1970's. Could you help us?

USA - Sure we will help, but in return you must liberalise your economy within X years in these sectors, remove these rights from your people and allow almost unchecked operations from US conglomerates. Oh and remove those tariffs and subsadies for your local people (while we of course will keep ours up to stop you silly people importing goods that will undercut our companies)

HC - How about we liberalise them gradually thus not increasing inflation, or shocking our economy into near breaking point? That way, in the long term it will be better for us, building a more sustainable economy that will benefit our people as a whole.

USA - How about...not.

HC - But... our people will die; we will reform, just more slowly.

USA - Take it or leave it.

HC - Dilemma; take it and harm our economy in the long term, just postponing the current problem, yet our people will not starve or die in thier droves right now. Or reject it and risk civil unrest, death and poverty. Which to choose.

Yep, some people f*ck up their own countries really bad. Sucks for them.

But it doesn't obligate the US to give them unconditional aid.

To be honest, my beleif for the reason of the "hatred" against America boils down to a personal insight:

America, because she is the most multicultural nation in the world, has numerous beliefs and traditions. We do not force a culture (since we really dont have just one of our own), but because of that we seem to be self-centered and radically liberal compared to the traditional values held to nations who do not deal with a populous filled with radically different views, all which are allowed to be spoken and fought for thanks to the U.S. Constitution.

Again, this is just my belief, but I think most nations find it rather confusing for a nation to guarantee people the right to say (almost) whatever they want, especially if it goes against the government. Again, we seem extremely liberal and almost anit-traditional, in that we encourage change and growth and don't normally stress family values. (And when we do, we blame the president for doing so, because he (or eventually she) would be "pushing" his or her values on America. How dare us confuse ourselves in front of the already disoriented international community?!

Alright. . .
I will admit that I am a republican American.
While President Bush has pretty much pissed off the international community, it has had a couple of positive side efffects that are often 'conviently' forgotten. The people of Iraq and Afghanistan are no longer under the control of oppressive regiems that we used to support. I know it isn't much, but at least we can start to make amends for supporting Saddam and the Mujhadeen(sp?) in the past.

Secondly,
The feeling in the US is that the UN is increasingly becoming more and more irrelavent. The UN passed mandate after mandate against Saddam, ho basically said to piss off, and the UN didn't do a thing to follow up on the military threats it used. The same thing is happening in Iran, UN mandate after mandate is being ignored whilst the Iranians continue to pursue nuclear arms.


Americans are also becoming aware of the UN's small arm's stance. (INSAYA(sp?) gah, I cant remember, too early and not enough caffiene)
While mildly hippocritical, and kind of paranoid, the feeling is that the UN is after our Second Amendment, and possibly the others. While this won't happen for another 4 years, it was a rather large part in our elections. (And if the UN ever does come to get my rifle, they'll have to take the bullets first :sniper: ) And the internal politics of the UN Security Council are getting rather anti-american, with a couple of countries petetioning to become permenant Members of the UNSC. We don't like this simply because we provide the largest contingent of troops, and funds to UN actions, and believe that these countries need to make more troop and fund commitments to the UN if they want their petetion to be considered.

If the UN isn't careful, they could quickly go the way of the League of Nations.

And yes, I am not a fan of the French. Why? Simply because they are quite useless both militarily and for the most part economically. As a wise man once said: "Going to war without the french is a lot like going on vacation without an accordian. All you do is leave behind a lot of noisy baggage."

And to those of you from Austrailia, Ireland, and Britain:
If you ever want a REAL drink, I got some 'shine that'll make your current beverage look like a fuzzy navel. . .

The sort of thing is when clinton decided america was going to put an end to "violence in Ulster". Now, considering Americans paid for the IRA, this is hypocritical, and they had no reason to come and mess with our affairs.

- I seem to remember George Mitchell being praised for his efforts to bring the sides to the negotiating table...by all the parties involved in NI. Sorry if this offends you. Just carry on as you were......

America refuses to ratify the Kyoto agreement.

-Origionally I agreed with you. then i found it to be too much of a burden on the US. but that argument now moot since Bushco spent so much in Iraq. If we were going to bust the treasury, it would have been better spent on the environment.

America does not always abide by the geneva convention.

- under Bushco , i agree. It's wrong.

America elects for president a psychotic moron who cant speak properly, backed up by an AG who spies on you, an ex-oil baron among others, and is going to cause a modern dark age. (My favourite Bushism: "the terrrrists <sic> are rerrserrcesful <sic>, but so are we. th' terrrists <sic> are alweys <sic> saarching <sic> for new ways to harm our currntri <sic>; and so are we.")

America is lacking in humor. (not that there arent many funny american things, Mark twain in particular, and The Simpsons )

- Sorry, I have to disagree. only about 25% of us have no sense of humor.

America is forcing its culture on everyone else.

If yu don't like the store , don't shop in it. Nobody's forcing anyone to go to McD's, drink Coca-cola, wear levi's or watch MTV. Well, I do wear Levi's. This has always been the lamest criticism i've ever heard.

America has yet to ratify a war which i did support, and which now everyone is committed to see through, but it becomes more and more apparent that the war actually was fought over oil.

-Oil?! Hussein took a pot shot at W's daddy. That's what this is all about.
The hatfields and mcCoys played out with other people's families.

america invented halloween.

Halloween came over from Ireland, Samhain, the celtic new year. Trick or treating evolved from leaving food out so the less than happy spirits wouldn't mess with people or property.

Americans are insular, despite all these things, and numerous wars.

-It does seem that most of the folks in the mid-west and south could care less what goes on in the world outside their small towns. They feel the same way about the northeast and west coast of America: It's all Somebody Else's Problem.
however, have you any insight into all this talk of oil-for-food malfeasance between some European countries and Iraq?


These are jus some fo the opinions that I have heard recently. Personally i don't hate america; after all, you invented sticky barbeque sauce :cool: and Bill bryson, john steinbeck, Robert Heinlein and Mark Twain. :) oh, and Yosemite is in america. (although outrageously buggered up by your hopeless Parks and Forestry administration)[/QUOTE]

Yep, some people f*ck up their own countries really bad. Sucks for them.

But it doesn't obligate the US to give them unconditional aid.

Ahh, US Christian values at work. Equality, being humble, charity, treating others as you would wish to be treated, loving thy neighbour, turning the other cheek.

Sorry - but I flame I am sure, its just what the Good Book says and the actions of those who claim thier nation was founded upon its principles do not always add up.

Sorry again, you are probably not even Christian, I was trying to be rational however when people have found thier salvation some are hard to reason with, even if it is a rather different salvation to the one I had heard and learnt about. And it is not only the USA, Europe does it just as badly.

Sorry about that, I just had an urge to stop trying to be nice for a change.

(me) :) :sniper: (what Even Newer Talgania probably wants to do to me now lol)

Ahh, US Christian values at work. Equality, being humble, charity, treating others as you would wish to be treated, loving thy neighbour, turning the other cheek.

Sorry - but I flame I am sure, its just what the Good Book says and the actions of those who claim thier nation was founded upon its principles do not always add up.

Sorry again, you are probably not even Christian, I was trying to be rational however when people have found thier salvation some are hard to reason with, even if it is a rather different salvation to the one I had heard and learnt about. And it is not only the USA, Europe does it just as badly.

The country might of been founded on it but due to all the multiple cultures in the US there really isnt a defining culture in America. There are both goods and bads with that.

Sorry about that, I just had an urge to stop trying to be nice for a change.

(me) :) :sniper: (what Even Newer Talgania probably wants to do to me now lol)

I would never do that to someone for mere words; it takes more than that to compel me to take up arms. My political views are based in a solidly humanist foundation, rest assured. I try very hard, and very successfully, to keep any spiritual views I may have separated from them.

Screw all other arguements, I'm canadian all the way. I'll tell you why alot of canadians dislike or outright hate america. Your jack asses. heres an example.

NAFTA means north america free trade agreement
bush means no canada you can't sell your lumber to us at the normal price I'm putting a softwood tariff of 18% on all your goods. Say what british columbia? Your mills are all closing due to no profits and now theres a good 15% of your poulation that will have to move for new work.

want more?
hey californa pay your god dammned power bill to BC hydro or we won't keep you from having blackouts due to a poor infrastucture.

USA wants to build a pipeline from alaska to washington to use its oil reserves without so much tanker costs. WEll gee you only have to build it through all of BC's coast line.

And don't you tell me america doesn't use global econimics to control countries.

Screw all other arguements, I'm canadian all the way. I'll tell you why alot of canadians dislike or outright hate america. Your jack asses. heres an example.

NAFTA means north america free trade agreement
bush means no canada you can't sell your lumber to us at the normal price I'm putting a softwood tariff of 18% on all your goods. Say what british columbia? Your mills are all closing due to no profits and now theres a good 15% of your poulation that will have to move for new work.

want more?
hey californa pay your god dammned power bill to BC hydro or we won't keep you from having blackouts due to a poor infrastucture.

USA wants to build a pipeline from alaska to washington to use its oil reserves without so much tanker costs. WEll gee you only have to build it through all of BC's coast line.

And don't you tell me america doesn't use global econimics to control countries.

America doesn't use global economics to control countries.

Any country has a right to accept or deny any trade agreement. If you don't like the terms, DON'T SIGN IT! If you don't like an agreement you're already in, GET OUT or simply don't abide by it. If you don't want to allow someone access through your territory, DON'T GIVE THEM PERMISSION!

It's very simple. Don't blame America if you don't have the balls to act in your own interest. Don't blame America because your timber industry is all f*cked up. Don't like us? Stop buying our products!

And the circle begins again - lol.

I to have had the privilege of living in and traveling on business in Europe, Southeast Asia, and Saudi Arabia. I lived in Thailand in the 70’s for a year. I’ve also lived in Spain with my family for three years in the early 80’s.
I agree with many of the things Kefalia and Andaluciae said. I don’t recall anyone hating or shunning me because I was an American. I never had a problem getting along with the people in the country I was privileged to visit or live in. When abroad it is important to do and remember several things. First, learn a little of the language even if it is only “Hello” and “Thank you.” Second, learn some of the customs of the country before you go and once there respect those customs. Third, treat people the way you want to be treated, with respect and dignity. Fourth, remember you are a guest in their country. I’ve seen some Americans who did not abide by these principles, they were loud, demanding, and down right obnoxious. Not only did these people make an unfavorable impression on the locals, I know they did not enjoy their stay in the country they were visiting or living in.
I don’t think, with the exception of some radicals, that people hate the American people although they may dislike or even hate our government policies. However, we must remember, sometimes their government does things we Americans don’t like.
Now for the important stuff. Even Thai beer, Turkish beer, and the imported Fosters are better than American beer. The best beer I’ve ever had was in Germany and England.

USA is horrible becouse of its dictatorial laws hidden under the camouflage of parliament decision and votes.


DO u think youth curfew aka arresting children for being minors is ok?


i live in Europe and we dsont have this crap...and every1 is happyer!

NAFTA means north america free trade agreement bush means no canada you can't sell your lumber to us at the normal price I'm putting a softwood tariff of 18% on all your goods. Say what british columbia?

Are you saying the US has put an 18% tariff on lumber from Canada? I haven't heard of that. Is that why lumber prices are going so high? The American producers are affectivly keeping Canadian lumber out of the market through a protective tariff?

USA is horrible becouse of its dictatorial laws hidden under the camouflage of parliament decision and votes.


DO u think youth curfew aka arresting children for being minors is ok?


i live in Europe and we dsont have this crap...and every1 is happyer!

You're full of sh*t. You've never even been to America, have you? You're just regurgitating (look it up in your English dictionary) what your parents, schools, and TV tell you to say, aren't you?

And yes, curfew laws are "OK"

i am in usa right now....that's how i saddly discoverd suck laws even exist....i didn't even belive itss true...my mind could not accept this crap.

i am in usa right now....that's how i saddly discoverd suck laws even exist....i didn't even belive itss true...my mind could not accept this crap.
You want suck laws? Here, Dumb NJ Laws (http://www.ahajokes.com/laws030.html) courtesy of my home state

I like these ones from Iowa -

One-armed piano players must perform for free.

Within the city limits, a man may not wink at any woman he does not know

A man with a moustache may never kiss a woman in public

I just think that all countries have their own little quirks ...... like france being afraid of military action after their revolution and america being afraid of taxes after its own revolution. Personally, I would never want to live in some European country who has close to 50% income tax ....... the EU is a little too socialist for my tastes.

i am in usa right now....that's how i saddly discoverd suck laws even exist....i didn't even belive itss true...my mind could not accept this crap.
You're just pissed because you can't do anything you want. If you're a minor, you shouldn't be out running the streets at night. You should be at home, with your family, doing your homework, and getting a good night's rest.

Besides, in my experience, curfew laws are very rarely enforced, unless the kids are very young (like 13 or 14, not, for example, 17) or they are doing something they shouldn't be doing (like aimlessly wandering the streets, or trespassing on someone else's property, or hanging out in front of a conveinience store for no apparent reason). You must either be quite young, or you were doing something fishy.

USA is horrible becouse of its dictatorial laws hidden under the camouflage of parliament decision and votes.


DO u think youth curfew aka arresting children for being minors is ok?


i live in Europe and we dsont have this crap...and every1 is happyer!

First of all, there is no nation wide curfew for children in affect in the US. In some cities and towns, the local (city or town) government have enacted curfews for children. For example I lived in Belmont and we did not have a cerfew, but the next town to us, Cambridge, did have a cerfew.
The reason towns have cerfews is to conrol teenage crime. Does it work? I don't know.
The only other cerfews we have in the US is when there is a disaster, like the hurricans in Florida. When there there is a disaster, the governor of the state can call out the National Guard and implement a cerfew in the disaster area.

America refuses to ratify the Kyoto agreement.
As it would harm the economy.

America does not always abide by the geneva convention.
That's good. Neither has most of Europe at one time or another.

America elects for president a psychotic moron who cant speak properly, backed up by an AG who spies on you, an ex-oil baron among others, and is going to cause a modern dark age. (My favourite Bushism: "the terrrrists <sic> are rerrserrcesful <sic>, but so are we. th' terrrists <sic> are alweys <sic> saarching <sic> for new ways to harm our currntri <sic>; and so are we.")
1) He has an accent. Get the hell over it. Go watch the debates. Kerry screwed up alot of names and places. Don't see you folks bitching over that.
2) He's psychotic? Are you a trained psychologist and that is your professional opinion?
3) He's a moron? What makes you say that? The fact that he isn't a complete snob like Kerry?

America is lacking in humor. (not that there arent many funny american things, Mark twain in particular, and The Simpsons )
*glances at France* Yes... And Jerry Lewis is the pinnacle of comedic genius.

America is forcing its culture on everyone else.
Like Europe has for the past ~700 years?

America has yet to ratify a war which i did support, and which now everyone is committed to see through, but it becomes more and more apparent that the war actually was fought over oil.
*sighs* The tired and false arguement that the war in Iraq was fought over oil. If it were true, gas prices wouldn't be nearing or reaching $3 a gallon.

Americans are insular, despite all these things, and numerous wars.
Because the majority of Americans are far more concerned about OUR country than others. If there is even a reasonable threat to the security of our nation, most Americans WILL support action against the threat.

I'm just going say to say one thing and leave because all the Europeans on this forum are stupid as hell.

The reason why they hate America is because their countries were established for thousands of years. Then came along a couple of anti-monarchy colonist who decided to travel to a new land. Now, 228 years later, America has done something niether of these countries could have in the centuries of their existance. Become the worlds super power. Notice where all the Anti-American Europeans come from; France, Germany, Great Britain, Sweden, ect.. How can these people possible even say a word about President Bush when not only is their country economically roaches compared to America but their military isn't capable of taking over anything. These countries are all miserable and they ask for America's help but never give it back. Then they whine that America is trying to imperialize the world, when none of them even know what imperialization means. If we were imperializing Iraq, it would have long ago became a part of the United States morons. So I'm not going to sit here and continue posting this these idiotic Europeans, because it is pointless all you're going to get is the same replies over and over again. As a proud American who makes more money than any European family put together on this forum, it just like to say, Europe can kiss my ass. You'd choke on the sweet air of American freedom.

President Bush 2004!

I'm just going say to say one thing and leave because all the Europeans on this forum are stupid as hell.

The reason why they hate America is because their countries were established for thousands of years. Then came along a couple of anti-monarchy colonist who decided to travel to a new land. Now, 228 years later, America has done something niether of these countries could have in the centuries of their existance. Become the worlds super power. Notice where all the Anti-American Europeans come from; France, Germany, Great Britain, Sweden, ect.. How can these people possible even say a word about President Bush when not only is their country economically roaches compared to America but their military isn't capable of taking over anything. These countries are all miserable and they ask for America's help but never give it back. Then they whine that America is trying to imperialize the world, when none of them even know what imperialization means. If we were imperializing Iraq, it would have long ago became a part of the United States morons. So I'm not going to sit here and continue posting this these idiotic Europeans, because it is pointless all you're going to get is the same replies over and over again. As a proud American who makes more money than any European family put together on this forum, it just like to say, Europe can kiss my ass. You'd choke on the sweet air of American freedom.

President Bush 2004!

As much as I agree with what your saying, Its people like us who accaully are proud to be american that get people pissed at america

....all the Europeans on this forum are stupid as hell.
.... How can these people possible even say a word about President Bush when not only is their country economically roaches compared to America....These countries are all miserable and they ask for America's help but never give it back......

Economic Roaches? ....then let us crush them.... I call for a Major TRADE EMBARGO !!!!

:D :D :eek: :D

You see what I mean?

The retard can't even comprehend English properly. I pity those hairy ass Europeans.

... is so disliked in general? Or why does it appear to be?


*Really Im just wanting to get your guys thoughts on the subject. I dont want any flames or such. I just want to see what others think.*

If you really want to know why the world hates the west, you should read the book Guns Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. It addresses this issue in a very educated and unique way. I encourage all people to read it, as it gives you a better understanding of our world.

Oaru and maybe your fat ugly European ass should go on www.google.com and search up economic statistics and notice why no one in Amerca gives a shit what you have to say about us, you poor liberal ape.

If you really want to know why the world hates the west, you should read the book Guns Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. It addresses this issue in a very educated and unique way. I encourage all people to read it, as it gives you a better understanding of our world.
Can you give us a synopsis, or the general message of the book? We may not want to waste our time on what could be hundreds of pages of bullcrap.

Also, what country is Jared Diamond from? And can that possibly be his real name? Sounds like a porn star to me. :D

Any Americans here have a specific european country that they like the most?

I personally like Great Britain and Germany the same and cant decide which I like better. Though my favorite european city would have to be Vienna in Austria.

I love Northern Italy. I spent a couple months in Turin some years back. It was way too easy to get the assignment, too. The other guys that could have gone didn't want to put up with Italian food and Italian TV, so they wouldn't go. Now these guys were ignorant hicks.

Regards,

I'm just going say to say one thing and leave because all the Europeans on this forum are stupid as hell.

The reason why they hate America is because their countries were established for thousands of years. Then came along a couple of anti-monarchy colonist who decided to travel to a new land. Now, 228 years later, America has done something niether of these countries could have in the centuries of their existance. Become the worlds super power. Notice where all the Anti-American Europeans come from; France, Germany, Great Britain, Sweden, ect..

I guess you've never heard of the British Empire... you know, that thing that spanned the globe. The Empire that granted land to "anti-monarchy" colonies that then named said colonies after the kings and queens of England. That lost two wars to us as much through empirical indifference than American fighting spirit. And I guess you're unaware that the French had colonies here as well, and that the reason why we have a large chunk of our country is that the French sold it to us (the Louisiana Purchase). And Germany, of course, at least had a history of trying to be a world power, and chewing up a large chunk of Europe in that pursuit. And Sweden has never really wanted to be a world power, so criticizing them in this regard would be kind of pointless.

How can these people possible even say a word about President Bush when not only is their country economically roaches compared to America but their military isn't capable of taking over anything. These countries are all miserable and they ask for America's help but never give it back.

Yeah, you're right, no other country has forces in Iraq right now.

Then they whine that America is trying to imperialize the world, when none of them even know what imperialization means. If we were imperializing Iraq, it would have long ago became a part of the United States morons.

No, they probably know what imperalization means, but I kind of wonder if you do.

So I'm not going to sit here and continue posting this these idiotic Europeans, because it is pointless all you're going to get is the same replies over and over again. As a proud American who makes more money than any European family put together on this forum, it just like to say, Europe can kiss my ass. You'd choke on the sweet air of American freedom.


So American freedom smells like your ass?

Now, to the topic: I don't think Europeans hate America or Americans. I was in Italy, France, Spain and England last summer. I speak English quite well, am passable in Italian, terrible in French and know nothing of Spanish, so everyone was quite able to pick me out as an American. And everyone, with two exceptions, were wonderfully nice, helpful, warm individuals. If I had brought up politics, I'm sure they would have been willing to talk with me about it (and I probably would have agreed with them -- I am on the far left), but we interacted on other levels.

The problem comes from American attitudes about the rest of the world as lazy, resolutely impoverished, etc. We have the tendency to assume God has blessed us with our wealth, or that it simply appeared out of nowhere as a result of our "hard work." That belief ignores that the wealth had to come from somewhere, and it frequently as come at the expense of other nations. We have enjoyed exploiting African and Middle Eastern countries for the oil, propping up totalitarian regimes, participating in the demise of regimes that did not agree that the world's resources belong to the United States, encouraging (or at least not attempting to stop) the use of deadly force to prevent protests. Culturally, the U.S. has never put a gun to any foreign citizen's head to make him/her buy Coca Cola or see American films, but American companies do go into foreign markets and spend a great deal of money to position their products in ways that domestic companies cannot. After World War II, when the European film industries were largely devestated, the State Department and the Motion Picture Association of American cooperated in flooding European markets with American films that promoted the American way of life for specifically propagandistic reasons (cf. Guback, "Hollywood's International Market," in
The American Film Industry, ed. Tino Balio, pp. 470-475).

Yes, the U.S. is a global power, but too often, we behave as though that means we have no responsibility for the health of the rest of the globe. Or, maybe more accurately, we behave as though we know what's right for the rest of the globe or that the long-term health of the globe is of small importance. Most people see the ideals that the U.S. proclaims -- free speech, freedom of conscience, etc. -- and wonder why we don't live up to those ideals, why we accuse the less fortunate of indolence, why we don't have a health care system that everyone can participate in, why we have an economic system that requires a large, underpaid underclass, why we tell some adults that they shouldn't love other consenting adults. European nations have a higher unemployment rate, true, although I don't know how well their methods of calculating unemployment matches our own. In the U.S., if you haven't found a job after a set period of time, the government assumes you aren't really trying to find work, and drops you from the statistics; more people are unemployed than are reflected in the statistics.

Anyway, to end this long post, I don't think Europeans hate Americans, they're just confused about us -- why our actions and our rhetoric are often so far apart, and why we act arrogantly when this is pointed out. And, yes, I'm certain that the same could be said about European countries as well. But that wasn't the topic of this thread.

... is so disliked in general? Or why does it appear to be?


*Really Im just wanting to get your guys thoughts on the subject. I dont want any flames or such. I just want to see what others think.*

I was going to start a thread like this one. Maybe I can just tag along.

First I thought that the world hated our foreign policy, but that didn't ring true. After all, look what we have done for the world in the last 100 years. Surely Europe is happy about the liberation from the Germans -- twice. And they must be very keen on us for shielding them from the Soviet threat, or they wouldn't have put up such a fuss when we talked about decreasing the troop strength in Germany. Even the Russians must be happy about the new opportunities available with the rise of Capitalism. We've even put up with UN diplomats for 50 years. That said 500 years until I corrected it. It mmust have been inadvertent.

Then I thought it might be just be envy. I've said before that this is the best place in the world that I've ever been. And I've been a few places. But I realized this too, was untrue. The world is so much older and more experienced than our little country that they could overlook an advantage or two that we have, while congratulating themselves on their wisdom and amassed knowledge.

No, it isn't foreign policy and it isn't envy. It must be something more basic. Language? We all speak English pretty well. It's hard to find a place where there are no English speakers. Well, except Paris. I've even heard English spoken on the docks of Marseilles. So I guess we understand each other pretty well. Except for Parisians, anyhow.

We certainly have a lot in common with the rest of the world when it comes to education, too. I don't know how many foreign students attend our universities, but there are a lot. And they always seem to find a way to hang around after they get their degrees. So they can go to the alumni events, I suppose.

Gosh, what could it be about American culture that makes even the feckless Canadians hate us? What is it that the rest of the world has in common, but we eschew? Not hockey, ever since the U.S. Olympic team beat the Soviets and the Swedes in '78, we have been devout fans of hockey. Could it be soccer, football for the rest of the world. No, our women's World Cup team won and now there are soccer teams and leagues all over the place. Kids in my neighborhood play soccer now, instead of baseball.

No, I think I finally have it. We don't know a kilometer from a kilogram. And don't care. And I think that is what dimays the rest of the world. We can count in groups of units other than tens. We know, instinctively, that twelve inches is a foot, three feet is a yard, and 100 yards is a football field. And we have no clue and no curiousity about whether a kilogram or a kiloliter weighs the most. This is it, the rest of the world is just mad that we won't switch to base ten on our measurements.

So, to the rest of the world -- Get Over It. If you don't know the difference between a furlong and a hog's head, we don't care what you think!

[QUOTE=Morotican]America is forcing its culture on everyone else. QUOTE]

yeah, it's our fault the europeans buy our stuff.

Even the Russians must be happy about the new opportunities available with the rise of Capitalism.

Happened to fast out there, and the mafia and the oil lords were the first to exploit it...which is alot of the Russian people are willing to vote for more totalitarian government that will crush a corporation like Yukos.

As for Paris, most of the Parisians do speak English, but they just don't like to do it...proud of their country and their language, same as alot of Americans are proud of theirs. If you try speaking French you will get a lot further, then again that goes for any country in the world. People tend to get the impression that English speaking tourists are either to dumb or arrogant to try...

... is so disliked in general? Or why does it appear to be?


*Really Im just wanting to get your guys thoughts on the subject. I dont want any flames or such. I just want to see what others think.*

Read the comments made by americans on this thread, the answer should be apparent to you.

Originally Posted by Brookslin
How can these people possible even say a word about President Bush when not only is their country economically roaches compared to America but their military isn't capable of taking over anything. These countries are all miserable and they ask for America's help but never give it back.

Do you read the news? Watch it?

The British Army is currently supporting the U.S. in Iraq. It has taken responsibility. Never give any help back?
Why then are we allowing the USMC to quell violence in places like Falluja by enforcing other areas?

Please open your mind. And watch the news and learn stuff about other countries.

Great Britain? Anti-American?
Great Britain is America's closest European ally man! Most British, and European, people have got better things to be doing with their lives than thinking about a country 3,000 miles away.

You also comment on how Europeans are "retards":


"The retard can't even comprehend English properly. I pity those hairy ass Europeans."

Wake up. You're speaking a European language now. Sure, you may claim it's "Americanised English" but it's formed on British English. Britain is in Europe! So just wake up, stop being a hypocrite and get over yourself!

As much as I agree with what your saying, Its people like us who accaully are proud to be american that get people pissed at america

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but this is the prominent reason that I find the American people make me feel slightly techy. It is the arrogance of not being able to take a detramental comment without shouting blue murder and bloody denial in response.

The only problem with my view here of course is that it can equally be applied to every other citizen of every other country in the world. Its called 'national pride' and to be truthful it is a disgraceful thing that only sets to further part our cultures and yet without it we would not be individual cultures. Now if only people could understand that then maybe we could get somewhere in the world.

British Teawa, I'm talking to you in particular here, but only because you were the last post I read - I am not crusading against you, but all of your kind :p

But I've got to say that this thread has progressed with primarily rational and well constructed posts - well done to you all, especially Myrmidonisia and Moochio, go for it :)

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but this is the prominent reason that I find the American people make me feel slightly techy. It is the arrogance of not being able to take a detramental comment without shouting blue murder and bloody denial in response.

The only problem with my view here of course is that it can equally be applied to every other citizen of every other country in the world. Its called 'national pride' and to be truthful it is a disgraceful thing that only sets to further part our cultures and yet without it we would not be individual cultures. Now if only people could understand that then maybe we could get somewhere in the world.

British Teawa, I'm talking to you in particular here, but only because you were the last post I read - I am not crusading against you, but all of your kind :p

But I've got to say that this thread has progressed with primarily rational and well constructed posts - well done to you all, especially Myrmidonisia and Moochio, go for it :)

I disagree, you can have culture without rabid-nationalism and "I'm the greatest" mentality.

yeah, it's our fault the europeans buy our stuff.

Looking around, most of the stuff I own is Japanese, British, German, Sweedish, French, Dutch and maybe Danish.

I do own American made stuff, but it was probably assembled somewhere else. ;)

Hello.
The question was: Why the USA are disliked in the world?

The answer could be that it is enough to read "Even Newer Talgania" to have a problem with the USA, but it is not sufficient.

Some others would say that what they hate is not the USA but the foreign politics of Bush, but they forget the really just sentence of Victor Hugo: "people have the government which it deserves."

I think that actually there is an increasingly significant shift between the vision of the world of a majority of American and that of the remainder of humanity.
People in Europe and elsewhere want a multipolar world with a truth international law, whereas a majority of American live in the old nationalism of the 19th Century whose europeans, after two atrocious wars, looked after themselves when other countries, for the majority ex-colonies, were, a too long time, the victims.
I believe that it is the basic problem there between the USA and the rest of the world.
Here is a rational vision without hatred nor insult, very different from that of "Even Newer Talgania".
A French vision :D

Hello.
The question was: Why the USA are disliked in the world?

The answer could be that it is enough to read "Even Newer Talgania" to have a problem with the USA, but it is not sufficient.

Some others would say that what they hate is not the USA but the foreign politics of Bush, but they forget the really just sentence of Victor Hugo: "people have the government which it deserves."

I think that actually there is an increasingly significant shift between the vision of the world of a majority of American and that of the remainder of humanity.
People in Europe and elsewhere want a multipolar world with a truth international law, whereas a majority of American live in the old nationalism of the 19th Century whose europeans, after two atrocious wars, looked after themselves when other countries, for the majority ex-colonies, were, a too long time, the victims.
I believe that it is the basic problem there between the USA and the rest of the world.
Here is a rational vision without hatred nor insult, very different from that of "Even Newer Talgania".
A French vision :D

Is that the Chirac vision of looking out for your self interest by opposing the War in Iraq due to the loss of buisness with the Baathist Regime. The French vision of keeping the Common Agricultural Policy up and running, spending 50% of the EU budget on it and squeezing the poor buggers in Africa to death as they cannot get a foothold in the markets. A vision that is just as selfish and insular than the USA's but unfortunatly you dare not admit it! And it is the same "vision" as most other major nations have, including my own (the UK), so do not take the moral high ground :p

EDIT - Well, you can take the moral high ground if you are saying this is your vision; however if you are saying this is what the French Government wants then really... who are you kidding.

Badger King,


In no way am I nationalistic. I dislike my country.

I just find it insulting when I'm called a retard for being European. And that my countrymen are dieing yet across the pond, they're seen as doing "nothing".

Ok, 4 points for Apollina.
1) It's my vision and the vision of a majority of peoples in the world.

2) If the french government wanted to save contracts with Irak it would be for the war. All of us known that with or without a UN agrement the US gvt would do this war and "won it". This is why the UK gone in this war whith the US against Irak. And UK have have been paid for it whith the renewal of the olds contracts with Saddam. I hearded that UK wanted more and didn't had it. I'm sorry for you. :D

3) The U.K. does not have a lesson to give as regards european budget. Remembers you this sentence of Thatcher: "I want my money back !"
And it is actually the case.
All the money that you give to the european budget is returned to you, except for the cent, in the form of subsidies.
France, Germany, Italy, Belgium contribute more, individually, to the european budget which they do receive, each one, of subsidies.

4) For the question of the Europe-Africa trade. I am not sure that you really know the current situation.
The European Union has agreements of privileged trade with the African States.
These agreements compensate for the African farmers the consequences of the subsidies to the european agriculture.
In the negotiations in the WTO, the European Union proposes the end of the agricultural subsidies if the USA make some in the same way. For the moment they refuse, it is neither the fault of France nor that of EU.

People don't like America because America's solution to every international problem is "Blow it up." From 1776 to the modern day, we solve every international problem with war.

No one dislikes America. We just dislike your foreign policy. Alot.

And personally, i prefer burger king to macdonalds :D
I concur with your post, except that I prefer Harvey's over MCDonalds. :D

People don't like America because America's solution to every international problem is "Blow it up." From 1776 to the modern day, we solve every international problem with war.

Thats because if you take the problem to the UN their solution to the problem is to talk about it study it and pretend like it never happened. To be fair war has solved more problems in the world than any other action. People like the French just hate the US because the UN has been Marginlised and they as opart of old Europe have a diminished infulenece, not to mention the fact that the French are just ungrateful for the help given to them by the Allies in WWII where tey sold out to the Nazis and then cahnged sides. :mp5:

There is an arrogance about america that is wholly unintentional. (Despite the fact that half of americans dont realise that living in the same town of twenty huts for your whole life is deeply sad). Its perfectly understandable, especially as in some ways they do deserve t do so. However, they seem to thnk that just because they have a large amount of power they can control the rest of the world and bring it under their control.

the cultural ethos of america is intensely annoying.

the sort of thing is when clinton decided america was going to put an end to "violence in Ulster". Now, considering Americans paid for the IRA, this is hypocritical, and they had no reason to come and mess with our affairs.

America refuses to ratify the Kyoto agreement.

America does not always abide by the geneva convention.

America elects for president a psychotic moron who cant speak properly, backed up by an AG who spies on you, an ex-oil baron among others, and is going to cause a modern dark age. (My favourite Bushism: "the terrrrists <sic> are rerrserrcesful <sic>, but so are we. th' terrrists <sic> are alweys <sic> saarching <sic> for new ways to harm our currntri <sic>; and so are we.")

America is lacking in humor. (not that there arent many funny american things, Mark twain in particular, and The Simpsons )

America is forcing its culture on everyone else.

America has yet to ratify a war which i did support, and which now everyone is committed to see through, but it becomes more and more apparent that the war actually was fought over oil.

america invented halloween.

Americans are insular, despite all these things, and numerous wars.


These are jus some fo the opinions that I have heard recently. Personally i don't hate america; after all, you invented sticky barbeque sauce :cool: and Bill bryson, john steinbeck, Robert Heinlein and Mark Twain. :) oh, and Yosemite is in america. (although outrageously buggered up by your hopeless Parks and Forestry administration)

That's kind of pathetic to make fun of people's accents. I'm gonna start bullshitting Europeans who can't speak English properly, apart from some of my English friends that I just met, who I have a lot of respect for, as they have respect for me and my culture.

People don't like America because America's solution to every international problem is "Blow it up." From 1776 to the modern day, we solve every international problem with war.

Thats because if you take the problem to the UN their solution to the problem is to talk about it study it and pretend like it never happened. To be fair war has solved more problems in the world than any other action. People like the French just hate the US because the UN has been Marginlised and they as opart of old Europe have a diminished infulenece, not to mention the fact that the French are just ungrateful for the help given to them by the Allies in WWII where tey sold out to the Nazis and then cahnged sides. :mp5:
Well, my good friend, you would actually be a good subject of it's Majesty the Queen without us, so be carfull with thoses funny but ridiculous remarks. ;)

Some people may actually hate the US, but I've never met them. I think in many cases honest advise is mistaken for hate.
When I say the us is being selfish when it rejects the Kyoto protocol (without proposing an alternative), I'm not expressing hate. When I say the US is going to far when they attack a country without strong arguments, it's not out of hate.
I guess some people just start shouting too quickly when they give their opinion on US policies. Maybe because they're frustrated with the fact that the current administration is just not listening to them.

Anyway, it's a good thing that you're asking this question.

Ok, 4 points for Apollina.1) It's my vision and the vision of a majority of peoples in the world.

Fair enough, good for you if you can stick to your principles.

2) If the french government wanted to save contracts with Irak it would be for the war. All of us known that with or without a UN agrement the US gvt would do this war and "won it". This is why the UK gone in this war whith the US against Irak. And UK have have been paid for it whith the renewal of the olds contracts with Saddam. I hearded that UK wanted more and didn't had it. I'm sorry for you. :D

They also knew that if the US went in the majority of contracts would be handed out to US companies. A UN force may have been fairer but still, I'm sure the US conpanies would gain the goods. Also, the corrupt oil for food program did some of Chirac's freinds very nicely (obviously he would not admit it. No politician would, as of course, they are never wrong!)

3) The U.K. does not have a lesson to give as regards european budget. Remembers you this sentence of Thatcher: "I want my money back !"
And it is actually the case.
All the money that you give to the european budget is returned to you, except for the cent, in the form of subsidy.
France, Germany, Italy, Belgium contribute more, individually, to the european budget which they do receive, each one, of subsidy.

Ha! I can tell you that I in know way like Thatcher, and if I started to agree with any of her ideas I would check myself in to the nearest mental institution! France, Germany, Italy, Belgium also have much larger agricultural industries that would cause an almighty fuss if thier subsidies were cut, not a very good election winner.

4) For the question of the Europe-Africa trade. I am not sure that you really know the current situation.
The European Union has agreements of privileged trade with the African States.
These agreements compensate for the African farmers the consequences of the subsidies to the european agriculture.
In the negotiations in the WOT, the European Union proposes the end of the agricultural subsidies if the USA make some in the same way. For the moment they refuse, it is neither the fault of France nor that of EU.

What nice rhetoric, they know full well the US would never drop their subsidies, it is just a cynical ploy, a wonderful European tactic that the UK, France and the EU use very effectively at various stages.

Note this from "Third World Network - Africa"
"But the implications of this “reform” have grave consequences for the developing world, firstly in the area of agriculture, and secondly, in terms of the leverage the EC will make of this at the coming WTO Ministerial Conference to prise open markets of the South not only in agriculture, but also in other sectors.

This CAP “reform” will make the price and trade effects of the CAP instruments less transparent. Developing countries will witness more price competitive, though no less subsidized, EU agricultural and processed products on their markets. Compared to export subsidies, where the distortion is at least transparent, it will be much more difficult for EU’s trading developing country partners to ascertain the level of supports (and dumping) that are affecting their markets.

Countries which have liberal trade arrangements with the EU are particularly vulnerable, for example, for the over 70 African Caribbean and Pacific (ACP) countries where the EU is presently negotiating reciprocal trade agreements. “Competitively” priced EU products will be flooding those markets. The ACP countries will effectively become the Europe’s dumping ground."

I disagree, you can have culture without rabid-nationalism and "I'm the greatest" mentality.

You have a fair point, but I do have to say that the majority of the posters on this board do not back it up.

Then again, I have never been interested in majority oppinion, I put far more faith in the oppinions of those people who think before they speak, as you have done so.

(PS, all those people who REALLY want to flame could very easily creativly edit my post to promote disruption and deride from my oppinion. You know who you are...) :sniper:

Feh, i'm just jumping in here to say the following.

First off, to end the Alchol argument:

We have Whiskey (I'm Scottish). End of story.

Second, the actual thread question:

To be honest, I hate certain Americans, and like others, but unfortunately, the ones I hate left the biggest impression.

Ya see, there are Americans i've seen who are nice, ordinary people. But there are others who commit acts of unthinkable stupidity.

For example, I was on a train, and an American couple were in the seats next to mine. They were both sitting chatting, when I overheard where they were getting off. Nothing important about that. What WAS important is that when we got to the stop they were getting off at, neither moved, even when the name was read out over the intercom. I had to actually inform them that they were at their stop before they realised they should get off.

Guess what, that isn't the end of the story.

As they were getting off, they realised they had been sitting too long, and the train would be leaving in about ten seconds, and the doors had closed. So, rather than hitting the button to open the doors, they hit the emergency brake, stopping the entire thing from moving for about 10 minutes, just so they could get off without having to ask the driver to hold on for a minute.

Quite simply, that sort of example leaves a bad image of Americans in my mind.

Celt I know you asked if I was telling the truth and I was softwood lumber in bc has a 17.8% tariff on it because canada was making more lumber for less costs than US companies so the republicans in power put a tariff on us. And as for that one american who says don't sign things if you don't like them I can only say USA signed NAFTA you stupid ass :headbang: you just don't get free trade do you? tariffs led to the depression getting worse in the 1930's because no one could trade with any other countries. But I bet a red neck american wouldn't bother to know their own history, just claim it's the best history for any one countries track record. also the way americans take any comment against their country is pretty annoying too. If I say red neck americans I'm not talking about all americans, just the loud in your face can't control my patriotic ass ones.

Clam now, lest your heart explode in your chest! There is no point throwing insults etc, or arguing by screaming at people. Setting out your points calmly and rationally and keeping your cool is much more effective, ya?

Celt I know you asked if I was telling the truth and I was softwood lumber in bc has a 17.8% tariff on it because canada was making more lumber for less costs than US companies so the republicans in power put a tariff on us. And as for that one american who says don't sign things if you don't like them I can only say USA signed NAFTA you stupid ass :headbang: you just don't get free trade do you? tariffs led to the depression getting worse in the 1930's because no one could trade with any other countries. But I bet a red neck american wouldn't bother to know their own history, just claim it's the best history for any one countries track record. also the way americans take any comment against their country is pretty annoying too. If I say red neck americans I'm not talking about all americans, just the loud in your face can't control my patriotic ass ones.

Please, please. I did not doubt the veracity of what you said. I was shocked that my country would violate the terms of NAFTA and place a tariff on Canadian lumber. This has resulted in an increase in lumber cost for us and the subsiquent increase in the cost of new houses.
Believe me when I say I will be in touch with my Congressman and Senator to find out what is going on and try to get this tariff removed.

Oaru and maybe your fat ugly European ass should go on www.google.com and search up economic statistics and notice why no one in Amerca gives a shit what you have to say about us, you poor liberal ape.

This is exactly the attitude that causes other people to hate Americans. Damn! I'm an American Republican concetative. Although I might disagree with someone, I don't machine gun them. Treat them the way you want to be treated.

It sucks that so many Europeans hate America when the majority of Americans like Europe. For example if I went to paris and people foundout that im American then they would probably treat me like crap however if a french guy went to New York City and people foundout that he was french no one would care or treat him badly.....

Thats mega bs, Americans people are always flaming french people and gloating about it.

People don't like the average American because the average American makes no attempt at learning how their power house country affects the rest of the world. It is an insular nation that seems to care little about their actions or the events of teh rest of the world. THat's where the uneducated bit comes from. The general populace seems rude and pushy when you go their and children seem undisiplined at best. But also because of your many extremist groups, you have huge groups to hate each and every minority and then extremist against those groups. Very unwelcoming. Sometimes it seems your politics are proud to be in those groups. People around the world also are so confused at why George Bush is back in office, even offended by it, not understanding how a man who has destoryed so much could so easily waltz back into office. Foreign policey, environment, social behaviour are tips of the hating America ice burg. Also it is that my post will be flamed for honestly answering what the question says, is why I hate the average American.

Has to do with the fact that the Kyoto agreement made standards a whole lot tougher for the US than it did for other countries. We just want an environemental treaty that is fair.
Well there's a very good reason for that, unless you're playing the horrible game of realist politics- which the US unfortunately is. The reason being that developing countries will suffer MORE from reducing their emissions, whereas it will make only a slight dent in more developed economies. Therefore I think it's only fair to have larger countries bear more of the burden until developing countries have better economies; unless of course you're playing a zero-sum game. :rolleyes: Governments and people, particularly the US need to start thinking globally, and not just in terms of what they can get out of people...

As for Paris, most of the Parisians do speak English, but they just don't like to do it...proud of their country and their language, same as alot of Americans are proud of theirs. If you try speaking French you will get a lot further, then again that goes for any country in the world. People tend to get the impression that English speaking tourists are either to dumb or arrogant to try...

This is the kind of insulated thought that really is a hallmark of European bigotry. I travel to several countries every year. It's business, so we don't see a lot of the general population, mostly just customers, hotel clerks, and waiters. I try to learn enough to be polite. How to say "thanks", "you're welcome", and other trivialities. I find that trying to be fluent in three or four different languages every year is pretty damn hard. In most places, 90% of France included, a few words are enough. The effort is appreciated and you can usually make an opportunity to learn more. In Paris, even the bellhops at the hotel expect you to be able to carry on a conversation in fluent French with a Parisian accent. They don't mind taking dollars for tips, though.

There is a reason that English is the dominant language in the world. Partly because of the legacy the British left, and partly because the American culture is so strong. The fact is that it is the dominant language. One can't ignore that fact. If people are polite to one another, that should be a good start toward understanding one another. In most of the world, it is. In Paris, it isn't. Count me in the unhappy tourist column.

Well there's a very good reason for that, unless you're playing the horrible game of realist politics- which the US unfortunately is. The reason being that developing countries will suffer MORE from reducing their emissions, whereas it will make only a slight dent in more developed economies. Therefore I think it's only fair to have larger countries bear more of the burden until developing countries have better economies; unless of course you're playing a zero-sum game. :rolleyes: Governments and people, particularly the US need to start thinking globally, and not just in terms of what they can get out of people...

What does the Kyoto Protocol do to improve third world economies? Doesn't it just hamper robust economies that tend to provide a lot of aid to third worlders? I've got my opinion, but I'm just looking for the 'right' answer from the rest of the world.

Read the comments made by americans on this thread, the answer should be apparent to you.


No its not apparent. If your meaning how some of them are posting with a bit of anger... well thats expected. But to dislike a whole country because of a few people then thats just plain damn retarted.

This is exactly the attitude that causes other people to hate Americans. Damn! I'm an American Republican concetative. Although I might disagree with someone, I don't machine gun them. Treat them the way you want to be treated.

Again NOT everyone thinks this way... Jeesh people are way to quick to judge.

Yeah, that does suck because if a foreigner did come around these parts, I'd be like 'Dude... let me buy you a beer.' Yet god forbid I end up in Europe or somewhere, people will go out of their way to be rude.

Dude, come to Europe and let me buy you a beer. We don't hate Americans, we just don't like your beer. And your foreign and internal policies.



No one holds you at gunpoint and makes you buy Coca-Cola or eat at McDonalds. No one twists your arm to make you see an American movie. Your statement is a big, steaming pile of bullcrap! You're just pissed because the world prefers our culture to yours, by choice.


On any given day 75% of the movies at the cinemas where I live are American. It's sad and I don't like it. Most of them aren't very good, either.



More bullcrap. If we're taking Iraqi oil, why is the price of oil in America still so high? You didn't support WWII? Which we fought and won on the part of the entire world.


That's not what my history book says. It says that America only joined WWII when it was about to be won anyway.

Yeah, well, every EUro-trash post I see here calls Americans ignorant, stupid, uncultured hicks, etc. They put down our people, our government, our culture, everything. I'm sick of their arrogance and condescension, and the gloves are off! And their "thoughts" are big, steaming piles of bullcrap; they've obviously never even been to America, and don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Please don't call me Euro-trash. And I have been to America many times, so there! :D


And, not to be a rude American, but wouldn't you consider America to be the greatest nation on earth right now, by virtue of the fact that it has the strongest economy, the strongest military, and donates more money to humanitarian aid, as well as supporting single-handedly 1/4 of the UN's budget, when most Americans think the UN is worthless anyways?

America is well-known for refusing to pay its UN dues. And for being the one country in the world that contributes least to international humanitarian aid in relation to its national product.

But. Maybe we (Europeans) have so many problems with American culture because we expect you to be more like us, you are really Europeans after all, aren't you, and we can't understand how you can be into so many strange things... Like bans on gay marriages, pro-life debates, arguing your right to keep guns under your pillows - all those things are unthinkable as political issues where I live. And your superstitious belief in the market as if it were the hand of God, and, speaking of which, the way religion is interfering with every political issue... We have a harder time understanding "American culture" than cultures that are much more different to ours, because we are similar on so many points. We expect to be able to communicate with you. Maybe that's part of it?
But we don't hate Americans.

Things that annoy the British about America (rather than Americans).
Saying how great an ally we are, complaining if we even think about any kind of import tax on US goods, then smacking the same extrodinary tax on British steel as was levied on the rest of Europe.
So why be your allies when you treat and ally in the same way as those that oppose you?
Things like that, double standards I think sum it up.

Misplaced arrogance and pride seems like the most common reason I've come across. Which is by no means unique to America. By a long shot. That and the fact that most of the Americans that make it into the news here (Europe) are either extremist or corrupt or something else negative. Down-to-Earth, decent people are generally not newsworthy, after all.

The few Americans I know in real life, and the few I talk to online, are pleasant people not much different than myself. I think all the hostility is the result of a small percentage of Americans ruining the reputation of the masses.

(Edit: I should say that the hostility towards America is the result of the small percentage. The hostility towards other people in general is something I can't even begin to understand.)

I believe it is because americans have many assets around the globe. Those assets have been stolen at some point and the people are angry because they think it should belong to them.
Example : Jerusalem or the Mecca or the oil fields in Saudi Arabia.
I live in France and here it is more about McDonalds and everything (nothing really serious) but my experience is that people generally don't like being colonized (I remember Algeria and everything).
This is why people in Algeria hate France.

I think America is a great nation, and most americans I have met have been absolute tops.

I don't think intelligent, thoughtful people hate america per se, there was world wide sympathy for the 2900 people murdered on S11.

I think also there is a percentage of rabid anti americanism based on standard lefty politics, jealousy, brainwashing, social group politics etc.

why most people are peed of with America ATM, (and thats your govt, not the population in general) is the beligerant way America is telling Iraq/iran etc how they should run their countries, the activities of haliburton and their subsidiary KBR and Bluewater, the use of mercs (I know RAR and SAS folks who have been approached and it p!ssed them off their files were perused by private companies) in Iraq, the freak religious nuts etc.

I think most people thought except for a few nuts, America under clinton was OK, America under bush snr and reagan was acceptable, and applauded for many things, but America under bush jnr/cheney and their religious nutjob pentacostal support crew and their invasion of iraq, and subsequent handouts to haliburton have made folks suspicious of America, its motives.

There have been posts that say America deserved what it got during S11, what those folks don't realise is that the 2,900 murdered had nothing to do with american foreign policy etc. Its like rounding up 2,900 zimbabweans and shooting them because mugabe is a fruit.

the whole world wanted Kerry to win, unfortunately that didn't happen, and we are just waiting to see if Bush continues his rampage of stupidity (ie. the cure for too many abortions is prayer????? what kind of rubbish is that? why not just handout condoms like intelligent being :headbang: )

I hope that most see this is as a reaction to the unjustified attack on s11 and don't hate america as a consequence of the arrogance of bush govt.

many Americans who travel to Aus, that I have met at pubs, functions etc have been reasonable decent and civilised people.

of course when the US military exposes is arrogance and complete contempt (ie where the sailer alleged raped a school girl and the USN skipped him out of the country and refused to hand him back to WA authorities) every gets peed off, but again that is not representative of all americans.

I think America has a lot to offer the world. (incedently a recent A(nov 2003?) BRW article revealed that the average american donates more to charity than any other OECD country, despite the American government donating the least per capita of almost all OECD countries (ie the people are great but the govt is a bunch of a***holes)

a bit of a waffle there, but basically america is good, its people are mostly good, the govt are a bunch of pr!cks and the US military has a few bad seeds.

cheers

Dan
Melb
Aus

The member of the armed forces may be no different from those of other nations, however the respect thier comanders have for the countires where they are guests leaves alot to be desired. I have heard many reports of members of the US forces being acused of a crime then thme being sent home rather than face the law of the land. In effect the US military are saying we don't really trust your system to give our lad a fair trial. This would not be so bad if the US military then prosecuted the case, but often (unless there is huge multi national publicity attached) they do nothing.
Now if you want to really rub salt into some ones wounds then that will do it every time!

The member of the armed forces may be no different from those of other nations, however the respect thier comanders have for the countires where they are guests leaves alot to be desired. I have heard many reports of members of the US forces being acused of a crime then thme being sent home rather than face the law of the land. In effect the US military are saying we don't really trust your system to give our lad a fair trial. This would not be so bad if the US military then prosecuted the case, but often (unless there is huge multi national publicity attached) they do nothing.
Now if you want to really rub salt into some ones wounds then that will do it every time!

No doubt the brits, germans, french, etc at various times could all be accused of having complete disregard for their 'hosts'

the more we (humanity) change (technology, communications etc), the more we seem to be the same :(

No doubt the brits, germans, french, etc at various times could all be accused of having complete disregard for their 'hosts'

the more we (humanity) change (technology, communications etc), the more we seem to be the same :(
And no doubt the french the german and the brits at various times were all hated.

I really get tired of reading all the negative comments about America, especially when its from people who have never been there and are just hating us because its the stylish thing to do. You say that we are arrogant? Re-read the posts that the Europeans make about us and you will see it wreaks of arrogance. So you hate our foreign policy? Do you think that Americans get to sit down and write in their ideas for a better foreign policy in order to improve it? We cant control that. I bet there are a lot of people on here who base their opinion on America simply by what others say. Thats as stupid as us assuming that all Brits have bad teeth. I joined Nation States because i thought it was a Brilliant maketing concept for Max's book. Also because I thought it would be great to interact and talk to people from all over the world about anything and everything. But it seems you cant get into a conversation in this forum about soda choices or potato chip flavors without it turning into a verbal World War. Get over your differences and stop whinning. Its rediculous.

No doubt the brits, germans, french, etc at various times could all be accused of having complete disregard for their 'hosts'

the more we (humanity) change (technology, communications etc), the more we seem to be the same :(
I think it is true that many of the countries you mention have at times not acted as they should. But it appears (and this may not be the case but perceptions are important, after all many in the US thought that Northern Ireland was not a democracy and that Catholics did not get a vote, hence supported the murder of chioldren by the IRA) tha it is policy for the US armed forces to deal with (or not as the case may be) thier own rather than letting 'lesser' countries enforce thier law.

No its not apparent. If your meaning how some of them are posting with a bit of anger... well thats expected. But to dislike a whole country because of a few people then thats just plain damn retarted.

In lots of the world, people don't dislike the country of america because of a few people, but because of the country. America has an identity as a nation. It has a strong identity, much stronger than the identity of most European nations, because it works very hard on its indentity.

I don't mean that America's identity is an identity that shows strength or is about strength, although that is probably true. I mean that American identity comes through a lot in American culture and in American people. Americans like saluting their flag, and having an American Way and an American Dream. Whoever heard of the Belgian Way? or the Latvian Dream?

This is the American Way:
1. Everyone has an equal right to their opinion. If you are stupid, you can believe that this means everyone's opinion is equally right.

This encourages Americans to think that they are right all the time, and discourages them from seeing anyone else's point of view in a critical way.

2. Freedom is the most important thing in the world. Your freedom to have nothing and my freedom to take off of you everything you had are interdependent.

This encourages Americans to be greedy and selfish and thoughtless. Freedom comes with responsibility but Americans are discouraged from feeling responsible for others.

3. Wealth is the second most important thing in the world. The point of freedom is the freedom to get wealth.

On top of the American Way, america lately has been ruled both politically and culturally, by the neoconservative movement. This movement has been lying to America since the 1950s, saying that the American Way is under threat from communism and terrorism because America is the world's only civilised free society and people all over the world want to destroy America.

Americans believe this, so they believe that America is the only decent country in the world.

Throughout this post, I have used the word "americans" when I mean "some americans" or "many americans". Of course there are a lot of different people with different beliefs in america. But the majority of americans are influenced to a greater or lesser extent by American culture.

I really get tired of reading all the negative comments about America, especially when its from people who have never been there and are just hating us because its the stylish thing to do. You say that we are arrogant? Re-read the posts that the Europeans make about us and you will see it wreaks of arrogance. So you hate our foreign policy? Do you think that Americans get to sit down and write in their ideas for a better foreign policy in order to improve it? We cant control that. I bet there are a lot of people on here who base their opinion on America simply by what others say. Thats as stupid as us assuming that all Brits have bad teeth. I joined Nation States because i thought it was a Brilliant maketing concept for Max's book. Also because I thought it would be great to interact and talk to people from all over the world about anything and everything. But it seems you cant get into a conversation in this forum about soda choices or potato chip flavors without it turning into a verbal World War. Get over your differences and stop whinning. Its rediculous.
I concur. You can't blame all or even most americans for the actions of their government.

From the Americans I've met in Aus, and the trips to America, most americans are hospitable, friendly folks. Although I find those who come to Aus tend to be better educated, more worldly and better read than those I met in the USA.

as for discussing America, whether you like it or not, America is without a doubt the most powerful nation the world has ever seen.

Even the Brit and say russian 'empires', didn't wield the military and economic power that the Americans do (although the brits and french still act as if they do/did :D ), so obviously anything the USA does, it is going to be a topic of discussion.

I think it is foolish and naive to hate america/americans when in fact what most folks actually hate is what the govt has ordered the military to do. Even then we've seen that many soldiers don't actually want to be where they are, and do what they are doing, but do so because that is their job.

(I wonder if all the countries where US soldiers are stationed in, got to vote for 'their' president, what the outcome would have been :eek: )

I concur. You can't blame all or even most americans for the actions of their government.

From the Americans I've met in Aus, and the trips to America, most americans are hospitable, friendly folks. Although I find those who come to Aus tend to be better educated, more worldly and better read than those I met in the USA.

as for discussing America, whether you like it or not, America is without a doubt the most powerful nation the world has ever seen.

Even the Brit and say russian 'empires', didn't wield the military and economic power that the Americans do (although the brits and french still act as if they do/did :D ), so obviously anything the USA does, it is going to be a topic of discussion.

I think it is foolish and naive to hate america/americans when in fact what most folks actually hate is what the govt has ordered the military to do. Even then we've seen that many soldiers don't actually want to be where they are, and do what they are doing, but do so because that is their job.

(I wonder if all the countries where US soldiers are stationed in, got to vote for 'their' president, what the outcome would have been :eek: )

Thank you :-) I would like to add that most Americans dislike the way our government handles things too. We get to vote on officials but realistically- we dont see any or many improvements in our lives by the decisions of that elected official(s). I think its awful some of the policies and practices our government has. So I can understand people not liking our gov't, But please give the people who live here a chance. Most of us go to work everyday , try to raise our families and just survive everyday life trials. Heres an example of a policy our govt made in efforts to "help" employees. The Family Medical Leave Act is suppose to protect you in the event that you either give birth to a child, adopt a child, have to care for a sick child without worrying about loosing your job. You get 12 weeks in a year-consecutive or split up, to care for your sick child. They must restore you to your current position. Your job is protected. Now this law only applies to companies who have more than 50 employees and you have to have already worked 1000 hours. There are a lot of other stipulations on that law that I wont even get in to. But how it effects the average evryday person: My husband started a new job 4 months ago and because hes not worked 1000 hours, he has to risk losing his job in order to help me take care of our son if hes sick. My employer tells me that My husband is going to have to share in the resposibilities of staying home sick with him, but if he does- his employer can fire him. We also happen to live in one of those states where they can fire you without reason basically. If they wanted to protect people and their jobs- why put so many constraints on a law like that? Thats just one of the many things that I as an American detest about our gov't.

Yup

The problem for most people is that it is hard to disassociate the govt from the people.

ie. many folks took 50 years to realise that only 30% of germans voted for the nazi party and of those that did, many did so under duress or false impression of what the really stood for.

once under that oppressive govt, with their SS etc they had no choice but to obey...

not saying america is the same, but for many they hated ALL germans, similarly with the Japanese, all Japanese were hated, in fact amongst many ww2 veterans who suffered under the japanese military, they still hate japan.

I find it deplorable that folks think that the 2900 who died in s11 or any other non combatant in iraq, USA, aus etc 'got what they deserve'.

most non combatants, inc those in iraq, don't give a rats about the pride of the govt or old fat men in dark suits talking about pride and insults, and posturing, they just want a job, a place to work, a family to raise etc, and you'll find for the most part the 2900 who were murdered were no different from the person accross the road in a cafe, or your neighbour or your best friend.

I don't like america's foreign policy, but I think we can start to tell the difference between that and the average citizen on the street.

This is the American Way:
1. Everyone has an equal right to their opinion. If you are stupid, you can believe that this means everyone's opinion is equally right.

This encourages Americans to think that they are right all the time, and discourages them from seeing anyone else's point of view in a critical way.

2. Freedom is the most important thing in the world. Your freedom to have nothing and my freedom to take off of you everything you had are interdependent.

This encourages Americans to be greedy and selfish and thoughtless. Freedom comes with responsibility but Americans are discouraged from feeling responsible for others.

3. Wealth is the second most important thing in the world. The point of freedom is the freedom to get wealth.

On top of the American Way, america lately has been ruled both politically and culturally, by the neoconservative movement. This movement has been lying to America since the 1950s, saying that the American Way is under threat from communism and terrorism because America is the world's only civilised free society and people all over the world want to destroy America.

Americans believe this, so they believe that America is the only decent country in the world.

Throughout this post, I have used the word "americans" when I mean "some americans" or "many americans". Of course there are a lot of different people with different beliefs in america. But the majority of americans are influenced to a greater or lesser extent by American culture.

I have never thought about it in that way before, so thanks. I agree with all three points, mainly I think.

The US Constitution requires all treaties be signed by the President and ratified by the Senate before they go into effect. The US Senate has already voted on the treaty and rejected it 97-0 with 3 abstentions. The Senate regardless of who is the sitting President will NEVER ratify the treaty.

The Kyoto Treaty was designed as a trap for the US. Why was the year 1991 picked as a base year? That was shortly after the USSR collapsed and shortly after 1991, their heavy industry followed. This gives an inflated base to former Iron Wall Europe, especially Germany. After 1991, the UK switched much of its electrical generation from coal to natural gas, and thus reduced their emissions. By keeping their 1991 date, they have an inflated target. After 1991, Japan went into a prolonged recession, one from which it has never fully recovered. By keeping the 1991 date, Japan has an inflated target.

Furthermore, the Kyoto Treaty is not adjusted for population growth. Most of Europe has a fertility rate of less that 2.1 per female (the replacement rate), therefore their population will shrink, rising the allowable per capita emissions. The US has a fertility rate of 2.1, which leaves it with stable population growth. Due to immigration, the US population continues to grow (albeit slowly).

Next, “developing countries are exempt.”

So where does that leave us? From some of the studies I have seen, only three or perhaps four countries would have to make immediate reductions. The US, Australia, Canada, and perhaps New Zealand.

The US has rejected the treaty. I believe that Australia has done the same. Canada joined, but signed a different Treaty than everyone else.

Finally, as for the joining the International Criminal Court (ICC) - Before joining the ICC, Articles III and X of the Constitution would have to be amended. Given the nature of this process, such amendments will never happen.

The Amendment Process
First, the amendment has to pass both halves of the legislature, by a two-thirds majority in each. Once the bill has passed both houses, it goes on to the states. Congress will normally put a time limit (typically seven years) for the bill to be approved as an amendment. The amendment must then be approved by three-fourths of states. It is interesting to note that at no point does the President have a role in the formal amendment process (though he would be free to make his opinion known). He cannot veto an amendment proposal, nor a ratification.

I can't really speak for any other countries but as a Canadian I can say that most of the nation feels sort of abused/insulted by how our nation seems to be treated by the American Nation.

~We didn't really mind the constant streem of Canada jokes on the Simpsons and Southpark but they haven't really helped the international relationship.

~However the issue of softwood lumber made a lot of people very angry. It was felt that the US government was breaking our free trade agrements and trying to take advantage of the industry.

~The whole Mad Cow thing was pretty bad too. Sure, we could all understand when the Government said they didn't want to import anything that might be dangerous. However when they found the same problem with some of the American beef Mr. Bush issued a statement to the Canadian government, that when you take out all the political & legal jargen basicly said "Would you mind not treating us the way we treated you?"

~American is not seen as doing it's part to deal with the environmental problems. A lot of our lakes and rivers are contaminated with garbage and polution that comes straight north across the border.

~Many of the more nationalist people are resentful of all the American chains and corperations that operate in Canada, some people feel they are taking jobs away from Canadians. But also just by being there it causes a feeling of invading. Also the fact that many origianly 'Canadian' things are now owned by American business, like the Laura Secords (she was something of a war hero).

~Many of our fire fighters came to NY to help with the 9 11 attacks (some of whom were badly hurt while there) and didn't even get mentioned when Bush gave his big thankyou speech.

~While we have to study all the American states and there capitals very few Americans seem to know very much about ouf geography. It's kind of insulting and makes the nation seem rather ignorant.

~Most of the Americans that 'make themselves known' when they're in Canada tend to be less than the best examples of your citizens.

~Bush's speech about how he was offended we didn't support the war in Iraq and how we'd 'deserted' our neighbours didn't go over very well. Especially when it was coming from the guy that got our nations capital wrong in a previous interview.

~We don't and shouldn't blame all American's for the state of their government but clearly more than half of them are responsible for who the leader is.

~There is also a general feeling that it's a more violent and dangerous culture. What with all the school shootings and so many people owning guns. I don't know anyone that would say they don't like any Americans, but most would agree they don't really like America.

***I should note here that I myself have never actually met any Americans that I didn't like. :) (There's nine that I would consider good friends) I live close to the border and every year I happily have my American friends over to celibrate Canada Day (July 1st) and watch the fire works and stuff. Then we all go down to the States for July 4th and have another big party. However despite that I still don't 'like America' as a country.***

These are jus some fo the opinions that I have heard recently. Personally i don't hate america; after all, you invented sticky barbeque sauce :cool: and Bill bryson, john steinbeck, Robert Heinlein and Mark Twain. :) oh, and Yosemite is in america. (although outrageously buggered up by your hopeless Parks and Forestry administration)

Have you even read Starship Troopers? It is highly probable Heinlein would support the war on terror and Iraq in particular. For that matter, Twain would rip apart the intellectual left as much as the religious right.

The US has shown a disturbing willingness to engage in wars on foreign soil - I think I read somewhere that basically since WWII we have been continually engaged in military operations somewhere or other on the globe.

Now I admit that war is sometimes necessary or justified, WWII may be a good example, but there is absolutely no way that continual (undeclared) war is reasonable. These wars have been fought to advance the US' interests, and I don't think that a nation's political agenda can justify the inevitable deaths that result.

You can argue in specific cases for whether or not a war is justified, but ultimately it certainly isn't obvious that all of the wars we've fought have been justified. Maybe it's just me, but I don't believe that killing people is something you should do unless you're absolutely positive it's the best solution, and the US is either being excedingly arogant in assuming it's always right, or, worse, doesn't care if it's wrong.

I suppose that the death penalty reflects the same mentality. If you think no one innocent is ever sentenced to death you're fooling yourself, and if you don't care, well... that scares me a little.

I'm a US citizen myself, and there are a lot of great things about our country. We put more money into science than any other nation (probably not relative to our size, but it still counts for something), and that alone makes me happy to live here. However, I personally think that our international policy is highly immoral, and probably intentionally so. I dont' think that's a good thing.

From WWII on it was to attempt to counter the Russkies. It wasn't pretty but the alternative was arguably worse. After the collapse of the USSR we were involved in stopping Saddam's rush for power the first time, then sat back, allowed him to continually break the ceasefire and UN resolutions. The first Gulf War never actually ended and as such the continuation of it was perfectly "legal". Of course, one questions whether legality has anything to do with war, for in truth the best that can be said of a war is that it is "just". This of course brings into play ones definition of just and almost entirely depends upon ones perspective.