NationStates Jolt Archive

LITTLE EGG HARBOR, N.J. -- U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg on Friday called for a Washington D.C. National Guard unit to halt all operations in New Jersey until it determines how and why an F-16 jet strafed an Ocean County school with 20mm cannon fire.

Calling the actions of the pilot "totally incomprehensible," Lautenberg, D-N.J., asked the District of Columbia Air National Guard to suspend all training operations over New Jersey skies until an investigation into Wednesday's mishap is completed.

The senator also demanded a "guarantee that nothing like this can ever happen again."

A spokesman for the unit, Capt. Sheldon Smith, did not return telephone messages seeking comment Friday. New Jersey National Guard officials referred all inquiries to the 113th wing, which is based at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland, which is where the jet came from.

Also, NBC 10 now has photos of shell holes in a New Jersey school's roof that came from the shooting on Wednesday
this story was on NBC TV

apparently the pilot was 3.5 miles off from his target. I think that was MSN or CNN. My only question is what the hell is a military target doing that close to a school?

What does this have to do with the title of the thread?

:p LOL! Americans don´t even need terrorists at all! :p

What does this have to do with the title of the thread?

Ah, you're new to MKULTRA. You'll learn, in time, not to bother asking questions like that.

Isn't MKULTRA the mind control system from Conspiracy Theory?

The pilot probably saw some trenchcoated kids pulling out guns on the playground and thought they were Al Qaeda operatives :D

LITTLE EGG HARBOR?

Who names these places? Drunken sailors? :p

A NJ national guardsman, confused about his location, opens up with his cannons. The shells peg a virtually unoccupied school. This situation is a sad, non-political event.

Sounds like a dimplehead fighter jock.

Some pull crap like that. He was probably practicing a straff run and screwed up.

A friend told a story where one thought it would be funny to straff a heard of cattle. He probably didn't laugh too much when they took his wings away.

i love the way a pilot made a mistake and its bush's fault

i love the way a pilot made a mistake and its bush's fault

I don't think anyone is blaming Bush. I blame the stupid pilot myself. I mean jeez, what the hell was he thinking? Oh heres a little grade school, maybe I'll shoo it to HELL!

schools are pretty hard to mistake for a target

but you never know with those crazy swing sets and soccer goals and all that stuff

As I posted in another thread mentioning this, I think the pilot was probably going on a practice bombing run, something went wrong, and the vulcan cannon fired. Those 2-inch bullets go a long distance, and could easily have made it to the school. That doesn't explain why the vulcan was loaded at all, since strafing structures and other ground targets is a job for attack planes, not F-16s. Of course, had it been an A-10, the school would have been completely wasted.

schools are pretty hard to mistake for a target

but you never know with those crazy swing sets and soccer goals and all that stuff


He fired from thousands of feet up. He wasn't aiming. The purpose of the exercise he was on was to get him used to firing live ammunition. He couldn't see the soccer goals and stuff from above the clouds, it was just bum luck he hit a school.

As I posted in another thread mentioning this, I think the pilot was probably going on a practice bombing run, something went wrong, and the vulcan cannon fired. Those 2-inch bullets go a long distance, and could easily have made it to the school. That doesn't explain why the vulcan was loaded at all, since strafing structures and other ground targets is a job for attack planes, not F-16s. Of course, had it been an A-10, the school would have been completely wasted.

Yes, those A-10 guns got ALOT of power. If you want to see the power of the A-10 guns, then look up "Highway of Death" in Google. That was done by several A-10s! God I love the A-10's :D

More likely, the strafing run practice was involving live ammunition to get him used to the idea that he had such. Nothing like looking down and seeing you are doing real damage.

This, however, is not Bush's fault.

the way planes fire now is not luck at all, there is millions of dollars of tracking systems on board every jet built today, now are oyu telling me this jet just so happened to not have any of that equipment

More likely, the strafing run practice was involving live ammunition to get him used to the idea that he had such. Nothing like looking down and seeing you are doing real damage.

This, however, is not Bush's fault.

everything that happens is bush's fault remember the hurricanes is because of bush. liberals blame everything on bush, guess what i just pissed myself, its because of bush.

Haha! Bush has cleverly fooled everyone into thinking these little "accidents" are some far ranging plot by terrorists to attack the country...soon he will call for troops to patrol the streets to 'protect us'.....Was THAT the direction you were going with this? :rolleyes:

the way planes fire now is not luck at all, there is millions of dollars of tracking systems on board every jet built today, now are oyu telling me this jet just so happened to not have any of that equipment
They did have the equipment, but it fucked up. Nothing made by people is perfect, and is inherently flawed.

everything that happens is bush's fault remember the hurricanes is because of bush. liberals blame everything on bush, guess what i just pissed myself, its because of bush.

the hurricanes and your bladder control problems are not directly caused by bush, they are infact god's punishment upon the us of a, florida and you for the sin of electing the whore of satan to the white house. don't be surprised if ohio falls into lake erie sometime soon.

its great to hear a liberal talk about god when if they truley believed in god they wouldnt be for kerry

its great to hear a liberal talk about god when if they truley believed in god they wouldnt be for kerry
kerry is beloved of god, for he hath annointed his head with oil and hurricane holder hair spray and made him lay down with a super rich second wife, who is really really good in the sack.

its great to hear a liberal talk about god when if they truley believed in god they wouldnt be for kerry

You know its ONE thing to say you are a Christian (Bush) but to BE a Christian and to ACT like a Christian is another thing. Look at Bush track record over the last 4 years, can you HONESTLY say that he is a TRUE Christian?

You know its ONE thing to say you are a Christian (Bush) but to BE a Christian and to ACT like a Christian is another thing. Look at Bush track record over the last 4 years, can you HONESTLY say that he is a TRUE Christian?

Isn´t jesus who says to "love your enemy"? I don´t see much love in bush...

the way planes fire now is not luck at all, there is millions of dollars of tracking systems on board every jet built today, now are oyu telling me this jet just so happened to not have any of that equipment

I believe this sums it up. I won't respond to your other post because, well, you're either being sarcastic or I have to flame you to tell the truth about it.

The most sophisticated tracking weapons systems in the world still don't make up for stupidity. -My History teacher back in High School on WW2

That's a good quote, DLE.

Oh, and lets not lets this turn into a debate over religio-political affiliation, okay Sblargh, Blue Democrats, and My country Not yours?

I don´t see much love in bush...

You don't? I always do! :p

That's a good quote, DLE.

Oh, and lets not lets this turn into a debate over religio-political affiliation, okay Sblargh, Blue Democrats, and My country Not yours?
so this isn't a good time for my theory about how speaking in tongues is actually demonic possession and therefore evangelical christians are actually satanists?

Originally Posted by Nationalist Valhalla
so this isn't a good time for my theory about how speaking in tongues is actually demonic possession and therefore evangelical christians are actually satanists?

'Fraid not. Although it sounds interesting, I've heard it before.

I don't think anyone is blaming Bush.


Check the title of the thread. One mistake and it's a sign of Bush declaring Martial Law.

It's been reported (By ABC i think) that the triggers for the gun are close together and it's very easy for a trainee to trigger one of them. Why were the guns loaded? It was a live fire exercise. so the plane had to be loaded with the ammo because the performance is altered as the plane's weight changes.

Isn't MKULTRA the mind control system from Conspiracy Theory?

MKULTRA was refered to in that movie. What it was/is is a CIA project to use hallucinogenic drugs for mind control purposes. Yes, it is real and a part of history.

LITTLE EGG HARBOR?

Who names these places? Drunken sailors? :p

Hmm... Extremely drunken sailors..

Haha! Bush has cleverly fooled everyone into thinking these little "accidents" are some far ranging plot by terrorists to attack the country...soon he will call for troops to patrol the streets to 'protect us'.....Was THAT the direction you were going with this? Already happening, friend. Read the damn Patriot Act or quit acting like everyone who's against Bush is a paranoid freak.

"Troops to patrol the streets".. been outside the White House recently? Gee, that's so off-topic anyway that it's a joke :rolleyes: ... Also, it's scary to think that you list that as a "stupid conspiracy theory" when the Patriot Act already lets police officers break into your house without a warrant and not even tell you when they've done so... :(

And Christian fanatics: Please stop turning every debate thread in every forum into a religious debate! Grr!

You know its ONE thing to say you are a Christian (Bush) but to BE a Christian and to ACT like a Christian is another thing. Look at Bush track record over the last 4 years, can you HONESTLY say that he is a TRUE Christian?
You're way off. A "Christian" is one who follows God, Jesus, The Holy Ghost, or some kind of combination of the three. So yes, Bush is a Christian; Reverend Phelps is a Christian; the priest at your local church is, and so on. It's got zero to do with how you act. Bush is about the most fanatically religious leader I've seen since bin Laden, though...

OK, back on topic :) .

LITTLE EGG HARBOR, N.J. -- U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg on Friday called for a Washington D.C. National Guard unit to halt all operations in New Jersey until it determines how and why an F-16 jet strafed an Ocean County school with 20mm cannon fire.

Calling the actions of the pilot "totally incomprehensible," Lautenberg, D-N.J., asked the District of Columbia Air National Guard to suspend all training operations over New Jersey skies until an investigation into Wednesday's mishap is completed.

The senator also demanded a "guarantee that nothing like this can ever happen again."

A spokesman for the unit, Capt. Sheldon Smith, did not return telephone messages seeking comment Friday. New Jersey National Guard officials referred all inquiries to the 113th wing, which is based at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland, which is where the jet came from.

Also, NBC 10 now has photos of shell holes in a New Jersey school's roof that came from the shooting on Wednesday
this story was on NBC TV

Why don't you tell the whole story, MKULTRA?

1. There is a target range about 3.5 miles from the school.
2. This was a National Guard training mission, and the pilot was off course.
3. They were fortunately not live rounds (or so the reports said -- perhaps less explosive than the real deal?) although they did do damage to the building -- knocking ceiling tiles down and gouging the ground outside.
4. It was late at night -- 11 or after if I recall.
5. The National Guard HAS admitted all of the above and
6. the target range has been shut down pending further investigation

This was all old news TWO DAYS AGO and reported all over the NY Metro area. The only possible reason for keeping back this information is to fulfill your political agenda.

Why don't you tell the whole story, MKULTRA?
-snip-
I assume you dislike MKULTRA's uber-partisan agenda too?

Hey MKULTRA, the more radically left you go the more people you will turn off

I assume you dislike MKULTRA's uber-partisan agenda too?

Hey MKULTRA, the more radically left you go the more people you will turn off

Ever once consider that that's his TRUE agenda? :cool:

Ever once consider that that's his TRUE agenda? :cool:
He heads any more left, he'll be on the right!

Superpower07, as has been said before, this whole thing is completely unrelated to the thread title -- and the only way it could be made to fit that was in order to leave out all of the facts, then to justify it by saying that that snippet appeared on NBC.

Here's what the NY Times has to say:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/06/nyregion/06strafe.html


National Guard Agrees to Halt Exercises After Strafing School
By ROBERT D. McFADDEN

Published: November 6, 2004


enator Frank R. Lautenberg of New Jersey demanded an explanation yesterday of a warplane's errant strafing of an Ocean County elementary school with cannon fire, and asked that the Air National Guard in Washington immediately suspend training operations in the state pending a full investigation.

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Military officials quickly complied, but said there was still no explanation for the cannonading of the school in Little Egg Harbor Township on Wednesday night, which caused no injuries or major damage. The school's officials said that 970 children would return to classrooms on Monday, with bullet holes patched up and with official assurances that no warplanes would be streaking overhead.

But there was a deepening concern among parents and other residents of the sparsely populated township, 20 miles north of Atlantic City, who have lived for decades within earshot of Warren Grove Gunnery Range. The residents' concerns echoed those of Mr. Lautenberg.

In a letter to Maj. Gen. David F. Wherley Jr., commander of the District of Columbia National Guard, Senator Lautenberg voiced alarm over the strafing, which occurred at 10:15 p.m. when an F-16 on a training flight out of Andrews Air Force Base fired 25 to 27 cannon shells that missed the target range by three miles and crashed down onto and around the Little Egg Harbor Intermediate School.

"The actions of the pilot - whether accidental or not - are totally incomprehensible, and I therefore ask that the District of Columbia Air National Guard suspend all training operations in the state of New Jersey until this matter has been fully investigated," the senator wrote. "I ask that your prompt review produce a complete explanation of the circumstances, including a remedy that will absolutely guarantee that nothing like this can ever happen again."

Senator Lautenberg also requested a meeting with General Wherley and two subordinates in his command chain, Brig. Gen. Duane J. Lodrige, commander of the District of Columbia Air National Guard, and Col. Linda K. McTague, commander of the 113th Wing, to which the F-16 and its pilot are assigned.

Sgt. Lorenzo Parnell, a spokesman for General Wherley, said that training flights over the Warren Grove Gunnery Range had been suspended after the cannonading was reported, and that all training flights in the state would be suspended until after the inquiry, as the senator requested. Maj. Sheldon Smith, a spokesman for the 113th Wing, said that the aircraft and cannon were being inspected by investigators. "At this point, nothing has been ruled out. We don't know if it's a mechanical malfunction or human error."

Michael Dupuis, president of the township school board, said that he would ask military officials at the board's next meeting on Nov. 15 to restrict training permanently at the gunnery range to nighttime hours, and never to allow strafing or bombing while school is in session.

Since World War II, the gunnery has been used for training pilots and crews of bombers and fighters of the Air National Guard in New Jersey and other Marine, Navy and Air Force units. In recent years, stray bombs have set brush fires, and a jet fighter crashed near the Garden State Parkway in 2002, although the pilot parachuted to safety.

A half-dozen residents yesterday voiced shock over the cannonading.

Wayne Schwartz, who owns Great Bay, a fishing supply store on Route 539, halfway between the school and the gunnery, said: "We were in shock when we heard about it. It's a good thing it wasn't in the day," when the school would have been full of children in the third to sixth grades.

Military officials said the F-16 pilot, whose identity was withheld, was turning into a strafing dive at 7,000 feet when the jet's left-side fuselage cannon fired a burst of nonexplosive lead shells. It was to have been fired at 5,000 feet, officials said later. The pilot flew back to his base in Maryland, apparently unaware that some slugs had hit the school.

Four custodians were in the one-story brick building as eight shells hit, driving holes in the roof and causing damage in a few classrooms, a hallway and an office. Five slugs were found in the parking lot, and 12 to 14 more were not accounted for, officials said.


Robert Hanley and Jason George contributed reporting for this article.


Here's what 1010 WINS News (NYC news station) says:
http://1010wins.com/topstories/winstopstories_story_309160700.html


However, the only part that was told you was that there was an attack and Lautenberg swears to prevent it happening again.

The silence is deafening.

:D UNlike the pilot trainee, I think I may have been right on target.

I'm no fan of Bush, and that's pretty common knowledge, but connecting what seems to me to be just an act of stupidity/carelessness to the president is stretching it a bit far.

Still... what a dumbass.

I'm no fan of Bush, and that's pretty common knowledge, but connecting what seems to me to be just an act of stupidity/carelessness to the president is stretching it a bit far.

Still... what a dumbass.

And they said I couldn't be a pilot because of my bad eyesight.

Still... what a dumbass.Who? the President or the Starter of this thread... :D

Who? the President or the Starter of this thread... :D

I think it was in reference to the pilot taking target practice on 3rd graders.

I think it was in reference to the pilot taking target practice on 3rd graders.


No kids present -- it was at night.

matial law? please...we in VA will take care of that.....

And they said I couldn't be a pilot because of my bad eyesight.I think the problem may be that because the triggers for the weapons are close together, he might have just accidently hit the Chaingun trigger. and since it's difficult to hear anything in those things, he didn't realize it untill he noticed his ammo count falling.

still fat fingers... bad eyesight... HEY maybe I can be a pilot too.

I meant the pilot, but maybe I'm judging him too harshly. I bet he alread feels really stupid.

No kids present -- it was at night.

Well, yeah, I realize that. I was making a joke. Apparently not a very good one.

I think the problem may be that because the triggers for the weapons are close together, he might have just accidently hit the Chaingun trigger. and since it's difficult to hear anything in those things, he didn't realize it untill he noticed his ammo count falling.

still fat fingers... bad eyesight... HEY maybe I can be a pilot too.

I have no idea. The Air Force told me I wouldn't be able to fly, so I joined the Army instead, and they tell me I won't be able to fly choppers. Stupid military.

Haha! Bush has cleverly fooled everyone into thinking these little "accidents" are some far ranging plot by terrorists to attack the country...soon he will call for troops to patrol the streets to 'protect us'.....Was THAT the direction you were going with this? :rolleyes:
yeah--the Red State President seeks to declare martial law

I assume you dislike MKULTRA's uber-partisan agenda too?

Hey MKULTRA, the more radically left you go the more people you will turn off
Im no further to the Left then the extremists in power are to the right

its great to hear a liberal talk about god when if they truley believed in god they wouldnt be for kerry

Ok how do you explain God and Clinton?

Pfft, a little gunfire over head and they are all freaked out. Try going to school in the Bronx. That plane wouldn't have made it back from a strafing run on Truman Public Zo.....er High School.

And what the hell does this have to do with martial law?

And are you The Red Arrow from before? You have some of the tell tale signs, but you occassionaly post in proper English and it throws me.

its great to hear a liberal talk about god when if they truley believed in god they wouldnt be for kerry

Your username says it all, Fascist.

so does that constitute a flame, or a reasonable response to flamebait?

just askin'... ;)

its great to hear a liberal talk about god when if they truley believed in god they wouldnt be for kerry.
Your username says it all, Fascist.
so does that constitute a flame, or a reasonable response to flamebait?
It should.

It should.

Hey, his username says that he believes in unilateral political rule, and his post says that he believes that his side has devine endorsement. He seems to have no problem with it, so what's wrong with calling him what he is? :)

Hey, his username says that he believes in unilateral political rule, and his post says that he believes that his side has devine endorsement. He seems to have no problem with it, so what's wrong with calling him what he is? :)My user name means 12... that doesn't make it my IQ nor my Age. One of my Email is Seedyrom, but that says nothing of me or my personality. Remember. the names are for role-playing NATIONS for the game nationstates... It has nothing to do with the person typing.

Peace?

A NJ national guardsman, confused about his location, opens up with his cannons. The shells peg a virtually unoccupied school. This situation is a sad, non-political event.

Like almost any news item, it's a political event. It's a very political thing for a senator to demand of the military to halt operations on the behalf of his state.

If you want info on martial law go here (http://prisonplanet.com)

Is he gonna kill all commies?

Commies! :mp5:

Is he gonna kill all commies?

Commies! :mp5:DUDE... Cut back on the caffine.